LOTR: THE RINGS OF POWER | Comic Con 2022 [Mega Panel Pt 3 of 6] The Creator Panel
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- Опубликовано: 21 июл 2022
- Watch Part 3 of the Mega Panel for Amazon Prime's Lord of The Rings: THE RINGS OF POWER Series.
This is Part 3 of 6 featuring a conversation with creators Patrick McKay, John D. Payne and Lindsay Weber led by Host and Panel Moderator Stephen Colbert
The entire panel is available as a playlist for Easy viewing selection: bit.ly/TheRingsOfPowerComicCo...
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Amazon Prime's The Lord of The Rings: THE RINGS OF POWER Series:
"Beginning in a time of relative peace, we follow an ensemble cast of characters as they confront the re-emergence of evil to Middle-earth. From the darkest depths of the Misty Mountains, to the majestic forests of Lindon, to the breathtaking island kingdom of Númenor, to the furthest reaches of the map, these kingdoms and characters will carve out legacies that live on long after they are gone."
The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power: Created by Patrick McKay, John D. Payne and stars an ensemble cast including: Robert Aramayo, Benjamin Walker, Charles Edward, Owain Arthur, Sophia Nomvete, Ismael Cruz Cordova, Nazanin Boniadi, Tyroe Muhafidin, Dylan Smith, Sara Zwangobani, Megan Richards, Markella Kavenagh, Daniel Weyman, Morfydd Clark, Charlie Vickers, Cynthia Addai-Robinson, Trystan Gravelle, Leon Wadham, Ema Horvath, Lloyd Owen, & Maxim Baldry.
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"it's non-canonical."
Gandalf: "Next time, throw yourself in there and rid us of your stupidity."
I cannot be cannon because it was never written. Means we are watching an amazing creative process - which can be magic or boring.
@@bavariancarenthusiast2722 I'd say the latter on this one.
@@SaRENRampaiger I hope not - but lets see!
"what is your favorite canonical event from the second age?" good question, Steven.
I just checked these guys on IMDB. How the hell they got to helm the most expensive show in history without nothing to show on their resume is beyond me...
They officially ruined it, I was so looking forward, really want them to succeed, but they gave us this SHIT. There is nothing Tolkien about this TV show. It is soooo hilariously bad, cringy at times, that I´m wondering how this was released the way it was. I hope Amazon fires everyone and starts from scratch, or I don´t see this EVER succeeding.
@@ctsperformance1755 well they’ve moved continents, so fingers crossed being back in the motherland will inspire some kind of story
What annoys me is the fake Shakespeare crap dialogue that a teenager could mimic. I just don't know how the repeatedly okayed all this dialogue. I don't get it!
Galadriel is from the House of Finarfin. Who would gift her an armour from Fëanor? Furthermore, Galadriel was an enchantress (like Luthien, and Melian), she had no need for an armour.
@@emiliorodriguez8104 She hated Feanor.
Personally, my guess is Celebrimbor. As he was descended from Fëanor, him using the symbol of his house would make sense. And since he was on good terms with Galadriel, her accepting it would make sense.
@@emiliorodriguez8104 Galadriel refused to give her hair to Fëanor because she knew the greed in his heart would never change. Also, after the fratricide after the House of Fëanor literally murdered Galadriel's relatives the Teleris, she would not be in good terms with her uncle.
@@jj48 yeah the whole "its not her armor, its a gift" excuse is really weak
doubt you'd throw on an SS uniform just because "its a gift" either lol
@@xerxBreak I wouldn't, but a symbol for an ideology is completely different than a symbol for a household.
The haters just sound like they're getting desperate for excuses to hate the show at this point.
So their answer to the elf with a buzz cut is that elves look different? smh
All the elfs of third age is the same elfs of second age, why did they decide to suddenly grow hairs !?!?!?!?
Stephen’s body language after the trailer just said it all… and his question on the Balrog… so on point… that beast was hidden for all of the 2nd age…
It's not Durin's Bane..
We have be careful because it may be flash back to the first age.
...you know there are flashbacks to the First Age in this show, right?
@@brooksboy78 Chekhov's gun: A narrative principle that states "every element in a story must be necessary, and irrelevant elements should be removed." How would a passing reference to a balrog of the first age have any sort of barring on the story they intend to tell? Especially if they are going to compress the second age and concentrate many events that were hundreds (or potentially thousands) of years apart. Clearly, they are appealing to the sentiments of viewers familiar with the Balrog from Jackson's trilogy. It is fair to question it; the Balrogs disappeared after the war of wrath, an event to which few of the show's characters can be tied.
Balrogs are Sneaky.
“It felt only natural to us that an adaptation of Tolkien’s work would reflect what the world actually looks like.” - Lindsey Weber, E.P. Amazon's LOTR Series, Vanity Fair (Feb. 2022)
"There are certainly themes Tolkien felt were important. We made a promise to ourselves at the beginning of the process that we weren't going to put any of our own politics, our own messages or our own themes into these movies. What we were trying to do was to analyse what was important to Tolkien and to try to honour that. In a way, were trying to make these films for him, not for ourselves." - Peter Jackson, Interview with GreenCine (Dec. 2002)
“The world is changed… Much that once was, is lost. For none now live who remember.”
There is no curse in Elvish, Entish or the tongues of man for this treachery"
The first quote is referring to the diverse cast, which shouldn’t be a problem for anyone.
"This was one of Tolkien's debate points with C.S. Lewis, his friend and colleague," co-showrunner Patrick McKay tells Total Film in the new issue (opens in new tab) of the magazine, which features Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power on the cover. "It was very important that what he was creating was not an allegory. He was not commenting on historical events of his time or another time. He was not trying to transmit a message that spoke to contemporary politics. He wanted to create a mythos that was timeless, and would be applicable - that was his word, 'applicable' - the applicability across times.
"Every single choice we’ve made at every turn of making this show has been to be faithful to that aspiration, because that’s what we want as viewers. We don’t want to adapt the material in a way that might feel dated. We aspire to being timeless. That’s why these books still speak to people so much, because so much of what’s in them has not aged a day. And we aspire to do the same thing. And I think we feel that once people see the show, and see what the stories and characters and worlds are in context, they’ll feel the same way."
all i hear from these people is how important it was to make tolkien more like them
@@wirmerflagge999 Then...perhaps a hearing aid is in order for you, sir?
@@duyvtran1 One of Tolkien's letters suggests that he intended to write a legend reminiscent of Britain and nearby Europe, but less so of anywhere as far as Italy, or further eastwards. That is, there is no intention by Tolkien for his created world to have a diversity of people equivalent to the real world. What is does have is dwarves/elves/men and a few minor subdivisions of each.
thank you so much for uploading!
"They're not Hobbits, they're Harfoots"
"Just like golden retrievers aren't dogs"
(stolen from a guy from the internet)
Shooting themselves in the foot :D
"Go back to the book" and then do the opposite.
Don’t you love that quote where Tolkien went on to state that he didn’t like allegory. This was nothing short of cringe and painful to watch
Was it the big words that made it uncomfortable for you?
I think he's refering to the quote to is " I cordially dislike allegory in all its manifestations, and always have done so since I grew old and wary enough to detect its presence. I much prefer history - true or feigned- with its varied applicability to the thought and experience of readers" and as a fellow fan I'm sure your familiar with it.
@@nasherowdey2618 Where did the showrunners say something contra to Tolkien? Be specific, please.
@@ClaytonStone895 Never said they did. I simply pointed to the quote. Your the one whose roaming around belittling people and dismissing people as bots. I don't think you're here to help. So I leave you with this, I wish you all the best and success, and same to the show, clearly there was hard work put into it.
@@ClaytonStone895 Ah yes, the Tolkien "fanatic" who is mindlessly defending the desecration of the very thing they claim to love.
Worth noting that Amazon doesn't own the rights to the actual Simarillion. As far as Tolkien canon goes, the Second Age material they have to draw on is coming from the Appendices.
From what I've read, Amazon had to get specific permission on a case by case basis for extra things. So while most of their rights are from the appendices, they do have a few extra rights.
@@MrNorbo95 Hadn't seen that, thanks for the update!
@@MrNorbo95 Yes, Tolkien's Grandson Simon Tolkien is a director of the estate and was a consultant on the show!
because of this, they want to make a non-canon own-created "personal" story of the 2nd age.
Um...if you don't own the rights to a story, then don't write a story about it? Seems pretty simple to me.
Are they actually this out of touch or they just trolling? I honestly cant tell.
I'll be happy to delete my amazon account the day this series comes out
Wah, wah, wah, your loss, our gain. Please do us a favor and keep an opinion of something you've never even SEEN, to yourself. Thank you.
@@workingtaxpayer2659 No I won't, I am a fan of Lotr, and I will take this as what its gonna be. A shitty pathetic attempt to insult Tolkien. This is not some star wars kiddy show or Marvel movie. This is Tolkien, and this show already looks like a fantasy drama or bad game of thrones
@@workingtaxpayer2659 you're right just be excited and consume (sarcasm)
I’ll join ya.
@@workingtaxpayer2659 you're going to be so disappointed to the reaction when it comes out and everyone hates it because it's a pale imitation of what Tolkien created.
I feel as though Colbert isn’t happy with a lot of creative decisions for the show, he being a massive true Tolkien fan, but given his fame, position and notoriety, he’s unable to really speak his mind.
That doesn't justify him misquoting Tolkien. That passage he read, at the end, has one word he didn't say. "Absurd". Tolkien was literally describing something that he thought was completely absurd and ridicule.
It's like me saying "I do not like Colbert" and someone quoting me with "I do like Colbert" because you know, I did write those words... only one little word missing, "not", so the quote is "almost" accurate, and I'm nitpicking, am I?
Colbert is no true Tolkien fan.
@@TheMule71 can you get me a link to that passage? :o
@@TheDanteJamesShow "Do not laugh! But once upon a time (my crest has long since fallen) I had a mind to make a body of more or less connected legend, ranging from the large and cosmogonic, to the level of romantic fairy-story - the larger founded on the lesser in contact with the earth, the lesser drawing splendour from the vast backcloths - which I could dedicate simply to: to England; to my country. It should possess the tone and quality that I desired, somewhat cool and clear, be redolent of our ‘air’ (the clime and soil of the North West, meaning Britain and the hither parts of Europe: not Italy or the Aegean, still less the East), and, while possessing (if I could achieve it) the fair elusive beauty that some call Celtic (though it is rarely found in genuine ancient Celtic things), it should be ‘high’, purged of the gross, and fit for the more adult mind of a land long now steeped in poetry. I would draw some of the great tales in fullness, and leave many only placed in the scheme, and sketched. The cycles should be linked to a majestic whole, and yet leave scope for other minds and hands, wielding paint and music and drama. Absurd."
Tolkien, J.R.R.. The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien (pp. 144-145). HMH Books. Kindle Edition. (Letter 131)
You'll note that his passage is not specifically about the "other minds and hands", but rather about his desire to create something large and expansive enough to allow for them. As such, his, "Absurd," seems to be referring to Tolkien feeling that he had fallen short of that goal, not that he felt the idea itself to be a bad one. I don't know if he was just being humble here, or if he was just disappointed with his recent failure to have The Silmarillion published (the letter was from 1951), but I personally think, in retrospect, that he may have succeeded more than he gave himself credit for.
He won't talk because he's a shill
@@spinofthewheel5345 f*cking nobodies in the comment section pretending they know what people are allowed and not allowed to do and say at that level. Bill Burr is right about you clowns.
3:25 Colbert nodding his head hahaha
good catch, we all feel the same pain
This was rough to watch. I wish them the best but I struggle to see how this will add to or compliment Tolkiens work. And if Star Wars and Star Trek were any warning signs, they're gonna milk this to death.
You doomers really WANT to be miserable. Star Wars was Disney, nothing to do with Amazon. Give it a chance, and if its bad, then call it out then. Show isn't even out yet.
@@bird6472 No one want's to be miserable. I think if you asked anyone criticizing this show that they would say they really hope that it's good but after being burned a million times and seeing all our favorite franchises be burned to the ground by these woke agenda pushing activist it's really hard to "Give it a chance and wait and see" as you say. How many things have we given a chance and waited to see over the past 8 years and got burned by? Too many to count. You look at the trailers and the "creators" behind this project and can easily tell it's going to be woke garbage.
@@bird6472 I would rather be pleasantly surprised than right. Oh well, zoom zoom to the IP's doom!
@@guyincognito82 Seems like people are hysterical at this point.
@@bird6472 I think people are just finally waking up and realizing what's being done to our media. People are tired of being beaten over the head with politics and being pushed these agendas. Media is supposed to be where you go to unwind, be entertained, and just get away from you life for a few hours. It's not supposed to be another place you go to be preached to.
all i hear from these people is how important it was to make tolkien more like them
I know, when Ian and Viggo got those roles they starting reading Fellowship of the ring, they devoted themselves to Tolkien and truly became those characters.
Stephen knows it's going to suck.
After the trailer: "Ok...that's a lot to take in. I don't even know who the hell some of those people are."
Throughout the whole interview, he never expressed any excitement about the Rings of Power.
"Why do some of the elves have short hair?"
"Why is there a hobbit story in the second age?"
"Can you confirm that the female dwarves have beards?"
"So there was a Balrog...that was a surprise."
He concludes with, "Well...thank you for sharing your experiences."
"Why do some of the elves have short hair?"
- Because we FELT like Tolkien was saying that.
"Why is there a hobbit story in the second age?"
- Because we FELT like it wouldn't be Middle-Earth otherwise.
"Can you confirm that the female dwarves have beards?"
- "They DO, I was personally there at 3 am when they applied every single hair to the women's faces".
After seeing further promotional material, NONE of the female dwarves have beards.
These people are impossible.
4:54 BS... The answer for that question can be said abaout almost any plot of any story...Anime, Marvel, DC, Starwars, Game of Thrones, harry potter, 300 even as simple as Super Mario.
5:29 Right all social groups are different in customs NOT NECESSARILY IN ETHNIC GROUP since Tolkien´s idea was to create a mythology for ENGLAND!! how multy ethinc do you think english people were back then as to have guys like Lenny Henry to coexist with guys like the actress playing galadriel?? SERIOUSLY.
5:36 YEAH, YOU GUYS ARE THE SHADOW. It rose again in the form of amazon´s fake values, which if they had any they wouldn´t treat their workers like crap
7:14 and this is what you went with? a thundercats roar re trial?
12:26 Fans don´t want you to be better. We want you to be accurate if you didn´t want to dissapoint perhaps you should´ve talked with someone who actually knew about tolkien like Tom Shippey. Oh that´s right...you fired him for not going along with your propaganda
13:38 Ah the guy you fired... Yeah that guy
16:18 You say this just after the Balrog reveal? The Balrog awoke until the third age you doofus
18:48 WHAT? And how do you judge that? this is even more absurd considering they´ve cum all over tolkien´s work with their inclusive propaganda jizz and you chose your cast like "Mmmm you have talent but l just don´t see middle earth in your eyes...Sorry... Go try Game of Thrones
19:10 long hair, known fantasy trope as well as true symbol of masculinity which was a big deal in the times you´re portraying. GRR Martin showed this pretty well with the dothraky that having their hair cut was a sign of shame. That is a historic fact. Thought you wanted to show the world as it is. And some will say YEAH THAT IS HOW THE WORLD WAS. Ok fine amazon suck up but the story is about THE PAST.....NOT THE PRESENT. Plus Elves being immortal didn´t have that many generations in order for fashin trends to appear so often and also how different do you think they were? Most of elves in main roles were Noldor. ALL NOLDOR. Save for sindar elves that barely appear in the shape of Legolas and the elves of Lothlorien.
19:31 ahhh they´re not hobbits, they´re harfoots RIIIIIGHT. Guys The Prince of Egypt is not a Human story is an Egyptians story...neither is The Man in the Iron Mask, that´s a french story... and here l was thinking they were humans.
The showrunners made male elves with short hair so they would look more like themself; human, contemporary and boring.
Calm down sire, we all knew they are trying to tell the world goat shit is like boba bubbles
@@galihjati443 xDD
This comment needs more likes.
"They let us make the show we wanna make" that right there is the best line of fantasy those guys have written
Based on what evidence?
@@williammorgan6586 That's the point, there's absolutely no evidence that these hipster Dan & Daves have written anything good ever, yet they were given a billion dollars to continue the work of a genius.
@@darrenbland I was talking in reference to JD Payne and Patrick McKay, not hipsters Dan and Daves, sorry for the confusion. Have a nice day!
@@darrenbland There are multiple scripts they’ve written which Amazon and the Tolkien estate reviewed. Their vision for a 50 hour series was the most epic so they got the gig.
@@ClaytonStone895 So you know their "vision" was the most epic because you reviewed all of them or because Amazon said it was epic? Or is Amazon paying you to praise this crap like everyone else that's praising this crap?
Rafe, the showrunner of Wheel of Time show sounded like this before the Wheel of Time aired.
I am not fooled again.
I think this is going to be the last time these clowns joining the comic con as rings of power
Of all the races of Middle Earth, the showrunners most wanted to be elves. Is this why they choose to give the male elves, their modern, boring hairstyles? The thought of elves blowdrying their hair and using hairgel and hair clippers, is ruining it for me. I think of elves as ancient and time less. Tolkien never, once described an elf as having short hair. I can not understand why they would mess with the images fans have of elves. Is such a little thing. If they only had a really good reason for the modernish hair cuts, but now I only think they did it to make elves look more like themself.
Lol do you see no irony in pointing out yourself that this is "such a little thing." It's ridiculous how people focus on things like the length of elven hair or the facial hair of dwarves instead of things that actually matter, like themes and plot
@@Flash4ML Themes and plot are even worse lmao
@@Flash4ML It might be a little thing, I mean the showrunners can do whatever they want. But if you are making a periode drama from the 18th century, and you give everyone blue, punk haircuts, it would distance you from the illusion. It could be an interesting, artistic choice, but for some it might be hard to look past.
I have been working as an illustrator and a photographer for many years and perhaps the visual representation of something matters more to me than it does to others.
I sound harsh in my comment, and I am sorry for that. I am just so dissapointed. Lotr is my all time favorite book. It always felt real in a way to me. Even the PJ lotr movies gave me some of that feeling. But what I have seen of this show just takes me right out it. I so wish it did not, because I looked so forward to once more travel to Middle Earth.
@@Maceta444 Really? When did you see the show?
@@Flash4ML I have seen what they have shown.
My husband thinks the trailers looks like mormon artwork, and grewing up in that church, I see it too. It bugs me more than it should.
I don't know why I am trying to explain my feelings though, because if you love everything you have seen so far I am happy for you.
Where is the diversity in the show runners?
Holy GOD why cant the composer be the one who decided the story line and everything about this new show!?!?! Listen to how he talks about picking out the thematic elements of the previous movies and boiling down the texts to the bare bones and really distilling the true ESSENCE of what IS THERE instead of saying things the showrunners are saying like "we went back to medieval folklore like Tolkien did to draw inspiration for things we were going to make up [except we didnt because there is no Africa in the folklore Tolkien explored]"
Where are you seeing Africa in this show?
Also... Harad?
There is absolutely an Africa analogue in Tolkien's world
@@JainaSoloB312 forgive me for not specifying in my comment of whom i spoke - it was the men and women of the west. basically the peoples the main story revolves around. after all Tolkien did compose this entire universe "to England; to my country. It should possess the tone and quality that I desired, somewhat cool and clear, be redolent of our 'air' (the clime and soil of the North West, meaning Britain and the hither parts of Europe: not Italy or the Aegean, still less the East)..." fair to say that the African queen of Numenor and of the dwarves is wildly out of touch with what Tolkien envisaged. on a comedic note - if the showrunners did decide to make elves have the long hair they are described as having - would the African male jedi-reflex-elf-character wear it down past his shoulders or would it curl up into an afro, being quite difficult to fit into a helmet? would he have a gigantic helmet to fit his hair? like the showrunners depicted dwarves spending weight on actual plate armor to protect their beards? thats the thing about spending ones entire life on a project - it tends to be quite fleshed out contra what we are seeing amazon produce right now, which will by the grace of all things holy not make it past season 1, needlessly sullying more of Tolkiens work and memory.
@@matsnordbo1
I agree with most of what you said. I think they could have included non-Europeans in this by simply making part of the story about the Easterlings.
@@matsnordbo1 Cynthia Addai-Robinson, playing Tar-Míriel Queen of Númenor, is *English*. Not African, you racist. Ismael Cruz Córdova, playing Arondir, Silvan Elf, is Puerto Rican, not African.
Tolkien wanted his mythology to reflect England but guess what? There were black people in England at the time. There were Hispanic people in England. There were Asian people in England. The England that Tolkien lived in when writing these books, was not populated wholly by white people.
As for Elves with Jedi reflexes, do you honestly think that having Thousands of years of practice and combat wouldn't give you abilities which to us seem superhuman? We look at some Olympians and even they seem superhuman to us, imagine they had the opportunity and health to hone those skills for thousands of years. That, along with Elves being supernaturally light (Legolas didn't sink into the snow on the Pass of Caradhras but instead walked on top of it) could absolutely lead to Jedi-like feats.
Now, as for the masks the Dwarves are wearing in this show, you seem to have forgotten this piece of lore:
"For the Naugrim withstood fire more hardily than either Elves or Men, and it was their custom moreover to wear great masks in battle hideous to look upon."
The Dwarves crafted special masks to protect them from Dragonfire. And so yes, this includes the beards as you wouldn't want those catching on fire.
All in all, it would seem that the showrunners have a better grasp of the lore than you do. Which should be no surprise, as it's their job and they are under tremendous pressure to get this right, from the fans, from themselves, and from Amazon who are spending more money on this show than any show on history. I'm sure if this were your job, you'd know the lore that well too. But it isn't, and you don't.
So before you complain about something else breaking the lore, I suggest you look it up first.
@@JainaSoloB312 The England Tolkien lived in is not the England Tolkien was writing about. If you don't even get that, you probably shouldn't be postulating about anything else.
They actually mentioned that they worked with Tom Shippy... but Tom Shippey was fired from the project...
Oohooh your brave bringing up Tom Shippey (13:40) after getting him fired for saying your breaking the lore...so on the fence about this show
That's not why he was fired, quit believing the Nerdrotic bs he feeds you.
@@nightwing4429 why was he fired
@@rostikskobkariov5136 because he breached his NDA and gave an unsanitioned interview, while discussing important plot points of the show that was unknown. There's a massive lie that he was fired for fighting with the showrunners about "nudity" and "sexual tension" within the show. Well, that was hilariously debunked by the showrunners. These rumors were caused by the hiring of an intimacy coordinator, which is nothing new on film sets because hell even The Batman had an intimacy coordinator.
@@nightwing4429 In fact, you are both correct. Yes, Shippey was fired because he gave an unsanctioned interview in which he discussed plot points. But why he did it? He was criticizing the utter destruction of the LotR lore and franchise as a whole. And he was very tactful about it, but the massive army of lawyers in Amazon just waited to spin it as a breach of contract to get him away from the show.
Because he didn't want to let them destroy the franchise, no matter the cost. So he spoke out and was fired for it. Which is also why only after the death of Christopher Tolkien did the Amazon push forth with the show. With Christopher and Shippey out of the way, they could finally go forth with their shitshow.
So the OP is completely right there - Shippey was fired for saying the show is breaking the lore, during the unsanctioned interview. Because if it were sanctioned, he could have never said the truth - that the show is a travesty and perversion of the Tolkien's work.
Saying he was fired because he breached his NDA is just a typical technical explanation, without getting into what he actually said and why.
The very fact that the guy was willing to breach the contract with the biggest company on the plant in order to warn the fans of the upcoming disaster should tell enough to any decent human being.
Yes, he could have kept his mouth shut, honored the agreement, took a fat check like Tolkien's grandson did, and allowed them to obliterate everything Tolkien stood for. But, being a chad that he is, Shippey decided to throw the money away and stick to his life's work.
That's called professional integrity. You might find out one day what that means.
@@Wustenfuchs109 That doesn't sound right. I've read the Shippey interview, and I didn't see any criticism of the show. If anything, his discussion about the eye the Tolkien Estate has on it seems to be an attempt to reassure folks. (Not to mention the fact that it would have been the Estate's job to decide whether the show was staying true to the lore, not Shippey's.)
The idea that Shippey was going after them for breaking lore also doesn't seem to fit with what he's said about adaptations in the past (see his lecture, "Tolkien Book to Jackson Script: The Medium and the Message"). Maybe after the show releases, Tom Shippey will no longer be under NDA and will be willing to give his opinions in full. Until then, though, the idea that he was fired for complaining about the lore seems a baseless rumor.
The thought of rewatching lotr and missing the Númenor instruments made me tear up he's kinda evil
That's how you make a pitch, tho
Against the soulless pitch of the rest about Tolkien
Honestly rn the music is the only thing that gonna make me hit that play button
If you want to make a "human story" without unnatural magic why would you waste the Second Age to do that? Just go to the Fourth Age where almost all the magic has literally died out
Good point lol
Wow. The tension upon being questioned about decisions made is tight. They knew the whole time.
At least Mark Hammil warned the audience about how bad star wars was going to be.
IF the show is actually good. I think it is just very sad that the PR team absolutely butchered the PR for this show (at least all the way until now).
I have this naive hope for WoT. That series was my childhood. I have high hopes but alas this cancerous wokeness in western society poisoned every thing that it latches on.
Agreed man, I have kind of mix feelinf that it wont be THAT bad and it might actually have very good moments, I think the final result will probably be average but the marketing so far has been atrocious that they lost most of the hardcore fanbase and those in turn made the casuals go against them, the only people that are really hyper excited are the fanactics of the woke movement who doesnt care about Tolkien but want to see their agenda into everything.
But yeah, if the PR team had respect Tolkien's true fans instead of calling them racist, if they had released more canon stuff before promoting so much BS and new characters, maybe the backlash would not be as high.
Now only a masterpiece could save the reactions, but we know we wont get that at this point, and since people are already biased against it, this series will not achieve the status that Amazon wanted.
It seems they learned nothing with TWOT flopping.
the show will be good, they have invested millions on it so great CGI, lots of action, and explosions, and female power, and representation.
The question is, is it going to be a good adaptation of Tolkien work? the answer is NO, DEFINITELY NO.
Bruhhh JD speaks in 5x even at 1x speed 💀
I've met him in person. That's as slow as it gets.
As an avid fan Stephan is always super excited to talk about LOTR and I am sorry but I don't see any excitement here which says more that what he could say in words.
Ohh You can tell Stephen face Reaction of the Disappointment & the irony, of there Questions. I Love Stephen for being a HUGE FAN of the Lotr franchise. Thank you Stephen for those serious questions, for them
12:45
"Getting this right means so much to us"
Clearly not Patrick.
"We didn't want to disappoint you guys"
Yeah, well you did lmao.
"It's not good enough it needs to be better"
Absolutely. But you people are clearly not good enough for the job. You need to find another field of work that suits you, because this ain't it buddy.
18:45
"We've gotta look in there eyes and say "do they have middle earth in them""
Wtf does this even mean!? Lmao.
Awesome panel! Colbert is the best!
'We wanted to find a huge tolkienien MEGAEPIC'
Oh
My
God
Harfoots stoors and Fallohides, they're just sub groups of the overall Hobbit "family tree" They're not ancestors of Hobbits, That's like calling Noldor Elves ancestors of Elves or something along those lines.
Elves live forever, so terrible comparison.
@@ClaytonStone895 They don't actually. They have serial longevity (they will probably live as long as the inability of the earth) and even they can grow weary and fade which is not true immortality. Perhaps in their fea( spirit) but not their hroa (body).
@@ecthelionofthefountain8267 This is genuinely about as pedantic as you can get.
There is a very vibe from when Stephen hosted Jackson and co for the Hobbit panel.
Some of this is just cheesy marketing. They looked them in the eyes to see if they half middle earth in them? 'You're gonna fall in love with them" Lol could you be any cheesier?
If you have middle earth in your eyes should you consult your ophthalmologist, do you need lasic surgery for it?
I was worried about the show before & I'm still worried about the show.
Being nerds in its self isn't everything, their intentions are important though.
Nerd would never give to elves short hairs :) showrunners are totally incompetent.
@@barbarosa3d239 They seem more competent than Jackson, tbh.
@@ClaytonStone895 :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D they have zero credits in this business and every second word they released from their mounth was a lie. You must be efking joking!
@@barbarosa3d239 You’re the only one lying.
@@ClaytonStone895 and you are a troll, commie activist or amazon paid superfan.. so bye ;)
19:42
Some facts about the hobbits from LotR Prologue and Appendix B.
Hobbits existed before the Second Age.
"The beginning of Hobbits lies far back in the Elder Days that are now lost and forgotten. Only the Elves still preserve any records of that vanished time, and their traditions are concerned almost entirely with their own history, in which Men appear seldom and Hobbits are not mentioned at all. Yet it is clear that Hobbits had, in fact, lived quietly in Middle-earth for many long years before other folk became even aware of them. And the world being after all full of strange creatures beyond count, these little people seemed of very little importance."
The Harfoots are just a breed of Hobbits.
"Before the crossing of the mountains the Hobbits had already become divided into three somewhat different breeds: Harfoots, Stoors, and Fallohides".
We know from appendix B that the Harfoots "crossed the mountains" to Eriador in 1015 of the Third Age. The Fallohides and Stoors followed their path in 1150 of the Third Age.
and these 3 tribes had different clearly named looks, who were entirely ignored by this show, because we need black-irish harfoots..
@@apollomars1678
What did they look like, I never read the appendices.
@@DocRealTalk you kinda see them portrayed in the PJ-movies, Sam is the typical Hobbit, and Pippin is a Tuck and Merry a Meriadoc. Frodo has relatives in the Tuck-clan over Bilbo, to the Meriadoc over his mother.
Frodo likes elven culture, like the Fallohides, who were friends with elves, hunted in their woods and had sometimes even blond hair. They were often leaders of Hobbits (like al tucks) and had a passion for poetry (like Frodo and Bilbo) and literature and this means elven literature. thy are rumored to have an addiction for "adventures" in young age (until 30). This is the case for Bilbo and Pippin. Pippin makes "trouble" in the movies, because he is a young Tuck.
(this thing with the blond hair could be Tolkien telling us about some blood connections between hobbits and elves in these times, thousand years before LotR)
Merry lives in the leader-clan of the buckland, the meriadoc. they are the sole hobbit group, that will use boats and live near water. Merry was the competent hobbit, when they used the ferry to get away from the dark riders, because this is his home. The meriadoc clan is rumored and they claim themself, that they are partly Stoors. Gollum was probably a Stoors too, he has larger hands and feets, like Stoors.
Harfoots were heavily influenced by dwarf culture, they settle like dwarfs in holes in the ground, but they are hill-settlers and thereby just neighbours of dwarfs. they are the majority of Hobbits, the Saclar-Beutlin line are normal hobbits, Sam and his wife are normal hobbits and Frodo and Bilbo have these conservative anti- dventure sides in them by their Harfoot blood relations.
And no, they were not nomads and they didn't developed the hole-doors in later millennia based on wheels. They build underground-hill communities of large hundred family member strong clans. There are some insides about the livestyle of these ancestors of hobbits, because Gollum is 2430 years old and just got born 680 years after the 2nd age. *They were probably matriarchs. But Amazon didn't cared about this.*
@@apollomars1678
Thanks for that brilliant explanation. The age of Gollum was very eye-opening. Especially considering you see Smeagol in the movies before he found the ring.
@@apollomars1678 The Harfoots were browner, so they’ve captured the look perfectly. Sounds like you’re wrong.
"Huge tolkienean mega epic." Say that again xD
JD Payne: "No BS, They let us make the show we wanted to make"
Peter Jackson: "This should ultimately be Tolkien's film, it shouldn't be ours."
That my friends...is what we're upset about
Then you're upset over your own misinterpretation. The entire context of Payne's words were that they weren't being forced to do stuff by Amazon. The issue was constraints from the company, not constraints of the text. Or are you suggesting that Jackson didn't really want to follow Tolkien as much as he did, and only did so grudgingly?
@@jj48 I know they refer to "freedom" from Amazon, don't get me wrong. I know they say "we can make things like we want and not how the Amazon dictates". But judging by what we have seen for now I truly believe that I don't misinterpreted their words. They want to tell their story, show their view on the material. That is why I posted this quotes. PJ also had a vision but ultimately he wanted to stay true to the source material (and I agree he cut some content because it is impossible to film phrase by phrase the entire trilogy). In RoP (for now) we can see that they want to tell their story, put some today's world in these episodes and tackle some modern problems. But I'm willing to change my mind when it comes out. I'm saying it looks to me like that for now... We'll see if I'm wrong (as I want to be).
From everything I've sean and heard, including this video, I fully expect to be disappointed. I was so excited to see Tolkien's world and lore expanded and brought to life. Instead it seems more like a middle earth inspired D&D campaign with a huge budget and no regard for Tolkien.
Sure, bot
@@ClaytonStone895 You sound more like a bot yourself though..
@@ClaytonStone895 Says the person answering to almost every critiqual comment in the same way across multiple videos...
@@williamliberta7593 I love talking to bots - it’s fun.
@@williamliberta7593 Not only that but manages to provide nothing to the discussion.
👍: 724
👎: 3.3K
💬: 714
Being an Ent/ Entwife could be cool, but they need to be able to live close enough together to visit each other and raise children together.
I'm glad they picked the 2nd age to tell the story, it's so full of events and familiar characters origins
this event is like the Oscars of the people, by the people, for the people even before the release
At last! The 2 most important people on the show! Even if they are all important. First time ever i see them so thanks!
This isn't Tolkien and I've HATED everyone's appropriation of Tolkien's "other minds and hands" quote. I think "other minds and hands" would be something more akin to the ways we have seen mythologies studied, translated, artistic renditions, and music compositions created. Eddaic stories, Arthurian Legends, you can see this in Tolkiens translations of Gawain and the Green Knight, Sigurd and Gudrun, The Fall of Arthur, and Beowulf. Certainly not a megacorporation franchising it for content, a wholly new set of stories that scrubs what Tolkien ACTUALLY wrote, even calling it The Lord of the Rings only making their title a sub-title. It's inappropriate. A co-opting, a hijacking, an appropriation. For example, these other folks have articulated this beautifully:
From Rancid Polecat:
"when reading that full quote it’s interesting that it starts with “Don’t Laugh!” and ends with “Absurd”. So I think the whole passage is his flight of fancy that he can create his own legend set in NW Europe- At least at the time of that letter’s writing. I got the sense he was talking about a shared cultural heritage of stories (like Arthur etc) that he alone cannot create, hence “Absurd”.
For them to use that quote out of context as permission to bastardize his own stories is amazing. Especially when we have his scathing letter about the 1958 movie script treatment that he clearly felt was an abomination . That is a more “applicable” quotation to the RoP.
From Tar-Elenion Maranwe:
From Everything Tolkien wrote is canon. Anything Tolkien did not write is not canon.
And yes, the passage is taken of context. The passage starts with a 'once upon a time'. The letter was written some years before LotR had been published. It is referring back to when Tolkien was starting his 'Lost Tales' mythology. The passage is not referring to LotR or his developed mythology. Letters 201, 207, 210 and 292 are more to the point of Tolkien's thoughts on his legendarium.
Their interpretation of the “other minds and hands” is closer than yours. We know Tolkien sold the rights and understood a film adaptation was possible.
@@ClaytonStone895 Yes as in adapt previous works.... not write your own story
@@ClaytonStone895 Hello, Andrew Gorman! How's it going?
@@ClaytonStone895 Is that so, Andrew Gorman?
Thanks so much for this vídeos of lotr in SDCC 😃😃
Wish I had seen this panel a couple months ago... The signs of major catastrophe are very clear
2:28 Awww...he started the event off with a prayer to Varda.
I threw up in mouth a little bit when he did that.
Listening to those two pseudo-writers you actually realize why the show was bombed...
When did tall Tom Holland have the time to learn elvish?
I am skeptical. What worries me is the one showrunner who found out about LOTR from Peter Jackson's films and who is now speaking Elvish. Maybe he's just young enough that that was his entry, but...if your entry is the movies...hmmm. The second was them saying Amazon let them make the show they wanted to make. sure...but...who are you guys again? I want to see the show that the Tolkien estate is OK with you making.
As to your worry, why should him speaking Elvish worry you?
As to the Tolkien Estate, they have veto power over what the showrunners do, so whatever's produced is what the Tolkien Estate is ok with.
The films were 20 years ago. My introduction was the BBC Radio Play back in 1981. I was 11. By the time I reached these guys age, I’d read everything there was to read by Tolkien. So how is their finding Tolkien through the films which I reiterate were 20 years ago a bad thing?
The non-canonical characters are not "implied" - they are contrived.
There genuinely aren't enough characters mentioned in the Second Age to fill up an entire cast... have you even read Unfinished Tales or the Akallabeth?
there is no canon yet for the 2nd age - it is written right now
"Bound less sea of creativity" this is such a dangerous phrase
Really wish Amazon had no attachment to this what so ever. Is it true that there's going to be huge liberties taken?
JD Payne seems to be the only showrunner with a glimmer of true appreciation for Tolkien's world. Patrick McKay seems to be hopelessly performative in expressing any genuine reverence for JRR Tolkien's creative genius and the mythical reverence that LotR deserves.
this comment aged like milk.
“It’s actually not a Hobbit’s story, it’s a harfoots story!”
Harfoots are still hobbits, they aren’t the predecessors of them. You can literally google this and you would know. Does it get any clearer that the showrunners have no idea about Tolkien?
“Tolkien doesn’t say anything about Harfoots not doing anything amazing in the Second Age, so we felt like we had licence there to do a harfoots story”.
That logic right there is ... what? .
If harfoots (who are indeed hobbits!) had done anything noteworthy, he would have mentioned it. And saying that since he didn’t explicitly mentioned it not being the case is a nonsensical justification. By that logic there were spaceships in the battle of Helms Deep, because he did not explicitly write that there weren’t any.
Not to mention the fact that if hobbits did something amazing in the Second Age, why would they be considered “unlikely heroes” in the Third Age?
And colbert, the great "expert" just sits there, nodding and smiling.
Also, stop deleting this comment.
He talked before the start of the panel of how complex Tolkiens books are and still carries on to promot this woke shitshow
Colbert is nodding because he clearly wanted to tell off the show runners deep down😅 he is a huge Tolkein fan. He can't just be sitting up there bashing their crappy decisions to their face. I firmly believe he had a million things to say that he couldn't say to their face, so he had to play along to their garbage
I don't think they actually realise how much pain they've caused.
His Welsh was good…
I'm surprised they got bear the guy who made the badass soundtrack from god of war
And godzilla king of the monsters which was an awesome soundtrack.
bear is awesome. did battlestar galactica, did God of war. Amazing
The new god of war was just a stupid dad simulator like last of us copy and paste.
@@Venoxisguides The new God of War is the greatest game ever made imho. I don't know what game you were playing, the gameplay battle system was nothing like last of us.
@@Axl124124 The Greatest game in all of creation, is Halo 2
@@Axl124124 it's objectively not. As a huge god of war fan, it's not even close. The story is really good. But it's cringey as hell when the game characters keep telling you what you should and shouldn't do, aka the game assuming you are a child and don't know which left or right decision to do. The combat is genuinely broken. It works on the first 2 difficulties, mostly. But as one that enjoys PAIN+ runs for god of war 1-3, the amount of work needed to refine the new combat engine is apparant that it didn't spend long enough time in the oven. Joseph Anderson describes the issues perfectly. The first cinematic boss fight was awesome. Ending with it, was terrible. The same 20 bosses over and over and same 4 enemy types was objectively repetitive and boring for any player unless you are entertained by pressing buttons and moving and that's your through line for entertainment. It was a game film that failed on both because it wasn't a finished product and making the combat THAT limiting(you have options, but rarely any real reason to change your basic style due to enemy limitations and same enemies over and over). God of war 2 is the best god of war overall. 1 is best for story. 3 is best for boss fights. 4 is best for cinematics and development of Kratos. Shadow of the colossus is a better game. Please play that. It doesn't have aureus or Mimir tell you what the pop ups and other side characters tell you in the same 30 seconds over and over, assuming you're an idiot.
@@Dravianpn02 It is not objective if I tell you in my opinion it is the greatest game of all time. I have played shadow of the colosuss and i am not sure how killing collosi with limited movesets compares to a battle system like God of war. it is not broken in my opinion and I have played using the God of war difficulty. Agreed on enemy variety but even with that it is the greatest game ever tells you how great the rest of it was for me. No game have I played has a battle system like that with as immersive storytelling style with animation quality and graphical fidelity to that level. The closest I have played is last of us part 2 and while the battle system for that is not bad, it is really basic. For me, God of war has risen the bar of what I expect from a video game.
and who needs a ring of power when we have already amazing books and peter's masterpiece .... ;]
We would love a good show based on Silmarillion or UNfinished tales and history of middle earth. Omg Those are all Tolkiens works. But Amazon wants to do nothing with those. They only want to inject wokeism everywhere. Watch the channel Tolkien Untangled. He made a better storyline in 2 hours than these guys did over 5 years with BILLIONS of $$$$.
the true idea of this fake lotr series was to pander to the public's perceived values and build on the excitement and following generated by Jackson's take on the literature. There was no honest attempt at storytelling or love for the mythology of Tolkein, which I have to say is not only heavily inspired by world and Celtic myth but Catholicism as well. Face it folks by that point alone, Tolkein's stories were in hindsight based on a worldview that was incongruent with LBGBTQ+ . Is that a good thing? I dont really care. Tolkein told great stories which these smiley bozos are ruining.
Tolkien was inspired by the Welsh language... but that’s as far as the Celtic connection goes, he wasn’t a fan of Celtic mythology in the slightest
How dare he bring up Tom Shippy, they fired him. These guys really don't seem like fans of Tolkien in any way.
Do we even have any evidence he was fired? From his own interview, it didn't sound like he was at all involved in production anyway, so it's entirely possible he just completed the task he was brought on for and then left because he was finished. I'll be rather interested to hear Professor Shippey's full story if and when he's willing and able to discuss it.
@@jj48 If he wasn't involved at all then why did the creators mention his name, my guess is they fired him because he is a Tolkien scholar who live's, eat's and shit's Tolkien all day, they probably realized they don't need a Tolkien scholar because they are not making a Tolkien movie, he most likely argued against the creators woke agenda and they got rid of him.
@@fenianbastard6672 I said it doesn't sound like he was involved in production, not that he wasn't involved in the project. From his interview, it sounds like he was involved earlier on with some promotional material (specifically, the map of Numenor), and possibly some other preliminary stuff. This would be enough to warrant thanks, but it doesn't mean he would stick around after his role was finished.
And I don't know how much you've read or heard from Tom Shippey, but based on some of his lectures I've heard and attended, and what he himself has said about adaptations, I'm not sure his reaction would be as strongly negative as many people claim. (In fact, he seemed quite positive in his interview.) Maybe after it comes out he'll speak about it--and if so, I'd love to listen--but unless he or someone close to him can confirm it, this just sounds like people using his name to try to justify their hatred.
Furthermore, even if we allow he was working on the production portion of the project, and we assume that he was furiously outraged with everything going on, the idea that Amazon fired him over that is laughable. Why? What could they possibly gain? Even if Tom Shippey complained about every little thing, it's not like he'd have authority to veto their decisions. That authority lies with the Tolkien Estate, and firing Tom Shippey wouldn't remove that veto power from them. There is simply no reason for letting him go outside of not paying his paycheck, and they've already shown that they're not too concerned about money. If people were claiming that Tom Shippey resigned or quit because he was frustrated with not being listened to, I'd still think it was a false rumor, but at least it would make logical sense. As it is, this is just a rumor that people have bought into without putting any thought into whether it even COULD be true.
@@jj48 Dude wtf are you talking about, pile of non-sense, we all now know he was fired on paper because apparently he gave too much info about the show in an interview, in reality he was let go because he said the creator's are polluting the lore.
@@jj48 So much of what you said I could argue against but who has the time for that, but one thing gets me, anyone can find a map of Numenor, pretty sure Tom Shippey wasn't brought in for that, his deep knowledge of the history and lore and understanding of what Tolkien invisioned is more likely.
At the very least I'm happy that the composer seems to know his lot and that Howard Shore will be working on it too. The great thing about music is that since it's medium is not language it cannot be contaminated with modern petty politics. And if Amazon's billion dollar failure will at least give us some great music then I'm happy it was made and I've got something to look forward to.
Lyricists would like to know your location
The idea of a trombone making sounds that are somehow politically charged is rather entertaining.
@@williammorgan6586 dont give them any ideas lol
Hearing one of the showrunners recite Elvish may have been a bit of a performative, "hey look I'm a real fan" moment, but honestly I kind of bought into it and it did for a moment at least make me feel relieved.
The showrunners sound like the kind of ubernerds who should be helming this project.
Rop are just sad. Just like those guys.
So, apparently Amazon is back at it again, deleting almost all 1-star reviews. go figure.
With the first season wrapping up now, everytime there is a scene that is screwed up, I go back to this interview, back to this interview, back to this interview, to find out how they screwed up so badly
When Stephen asks "What story are you telling?" and they answered "imagine everything and everyone you care about is taken away, what would you do to protect it?" , I lost hope. Second age is about Sauron's grip tightening around middle earth through subterfuge, it's about how evil grows stronger through greed. Those seduced by power and the promise of it, fighting and losing, losing again, then building shelter and new realms to protect the rings, it's about the relationships between races. It's complex and these people don't have a clue.
Someone, i think nerdrotic, compared the writers to ko*ked up sons who steel their dads Ferrari, although I don't conincide to all of his criticism I found this comparison pretty fitting seeing especially this interview :-/ hope they show me I'm wrong
What a bunch of liars.
I see pain on Stephen's eye...
There is not a lot of material about the second age. Spread across 5 seasons there is guaranteed to be a ton of filler...
There are enough big events for a skilled crew to fill it with story in between. But we don't have that crew. For example, we know of a struggle between the Faithful and Kingsmen in Numenor. Skilled writers can create an entire season or two out of it alone, while respecting the Tolkien's lore. You have a mysterious power pulling the strings (Sauron in disguise), dark cults, political intrigue, clandestine missions (Like Isildur stealing the fruit from the white tree), you can sprinkle in some mysterious killings of minor characters/advisors, have a shocking reveal at the end who the Sauron is, etc.
Skilled writers can take the skeleton that Tolkien left and put some meat and skin on it. But we don't have those writers.
So the entire show is going to be a filler - because, if you followed the comments, even what little we do know about the Second Age, will not be in the show actually. They are creating "a story Tolkien never wrote", but in their minds, wanted to. So yeah, you can't say a filler, because it would imply there are some anchor points between you get to fill it up. But since you don't have it, then the entire show is one giant filler with no purpose.
@@Wustenfuchs109 What makes you think all that WON'T be in the series?
@@jj48 Honestly? The entire marketing around it. They seemed to be worried too much about what a handful of woke critics would say than what Tolkien wrote (and fans want). Until the last minute of the last episode of the season 1 I will hope that I am wrong. But hope is a fool's errand, as they say.
@@Wustenfuchs109 I guess we'll find out in a couple weeks.
A story about female empowerment is fine but don't force it into existence
7:15 : show RUINERs - they let us make the show we wanna make . ( No PLEASE GOD NO)
7:22 Colbert - what's your favourite CANONICAL!!! event from 2nd age ?👌👌👌 Nice shoot Stephen))
Show RUINERs -talkin abt Sauron forging the ring 🙉🙈🙊👉👈 , cancel the show NOW ! I haven't see it , but even now i feel it has no potential ...
Film making is not easy, but calling out fans and acting high and mighty is not a wise move.
Join us for our counter ROP series, we must stop watching this even for negative publicity because it feeds the amazon rating system, Mae G'ovannen! Now the evidence is clear, and none can deny that "ROP" is not of Tolkien. Take heart and join us for our just released third installment of EXSURGE TOLKIEN that makes robustly clear the heresy of "ignorance" of Tolkien's Canon displayed out of the showrunner's mouths and hearts. They probably know nothing of Tolkien's masterpiece, as evident from their interview in the Vanity Fair Article. For "they who proclaim to loveth Tolkien, yet understandeth, not his world view can neither hope to create a new film, show, or series of his secondary world." "Auta i lóme!" and" Aurë entuluva!"
These trolls should have just started out their bloviating by shouting " Haters of Tolkien unite!" I hope this show utterly fails as it does NOT respect the source material. It is merely another vehicle for woke cultists to force their views on others. When Gandalf told Frodo in FOTR that there were " ...fouler things tham orcs in the deep places of the earth" he was talking about these people & this show.
I'm so pumped like treebeards muscles
Bruh! Im so pumped like pumpkin pie... mm pumpkin pie
@@supersoup4672 Yolo swaggins
I don't understand. They don't have rights to second age material.
The bulk of Second Age material is in the Appendices, so they do have the rights to it. And anything they don't have the rights to, they can still ask for permission to use.
Yeah they're the biggest nerds lol
Lindsey was probably the one to move the writers room along from lack of focus.
Hope the money was worth it Colbert
When Ar-Pharazôn said "If you have a problem figuring out, whether you're for me or for Erendil, you ain't black!" and then Sauron turned Tar-Míriel's skin fairer than silver or ivory or pearls, I knew that the showruiners knew the lore in and out!
Brilliant show!
If you actually think about what "fair" means in this context, you'll realize it's "beautiful", not "pale/white". One clue is that silver is not a skin tone, you can't be whiter than silver, that makes no sense.
@@JM-jj3eg exactly!
@@JM-jj3eg So it's just a total coincidence, that the things, not one, not two, but three things! Three things he likens her to are all reflect a pale skin colour in their COLOUR....
You know you're not fooling anyone, right?
🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡
@@JM-jj3eg Hahahahahha, you guys are desperate.
Silver is not a skin tone? What, and ivory and pearls are skin colours?
Is it just a total coincidence, that all 3 things are very very white/light?
"You can't be whiter than silver? "
How about "She was colder than ice" though? Oh, you can't be colder than ice, you'd be dead!
You really have no idea how Analogies work, do you?
All this denial about a shows that with the rare exception of, say, Harad, is obviously based on EUROPEAN FOLKLORE!
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@JM-jj3eg In Tolkien's work, fair means both white and beautiful. Nothing is fair and non-white in Tolkien's world. It is the result of the core of the creation of his work, where beauty and goodness are connected to the white and/or bright light, while black and dark are connected with evil.
Even if the character is completely white, but their hair is dark, in Tolkien's world that means that they got more of the taint of Morgoth in them (like the line of Feanor). In his work, dark and black is ALWAYS associated with evil and generally bad things.
Is that too racist for you? Who cares, that's how he wrote it.
From the context should actually be clear when the word "fairer" is followed by "silver, ivory or pearls". Silver is pale white and shiny, at least in all artistic expressions (haven't you read anything other than dictionary your entire life?!).
Fair hair is always light hair. You have never heard anyone referring to black hair as fair, no matter how beautiful it is. In books, in real world, anywhere.
So yes, fair does mean beautiful, but only when it is applied to a light skinned person. In other words, pale+beautiful=fair. Beautiful+non-white=not fair.
But, since you obviously never read a book in your life, I understand why you are dumbfounded with the OP's comment.
I think the show runners have been somewhat reckless, making changes they really did not need to make. I would have repected the whole production more, if there was some honesty.
For an example they could have told about the real reasons, when asked about why elves have short hair. Told about the discussions around it (there must have been some) I mean there must be a reason for making a race that is timeless and ancient looking more like contemporary, conservative humans. They have to have talked about it. Just a detail, but it bugs me.
And with the question about the Hobbits, the honest answer would be something like: We wanted to have Hobbits in the show, so we desided to make some stories about Hare foots.
But most of all why are not anyone talking about all the backlash against the show. They know it is there. They probably hope it will be better when the show comes out, but why not say anything about it? I understand it must be an enormous pressure, but people respect honesty and humility, more than argumenting for your point of view.
Most of the backlash is manufactured - it’s a small number of fake fans and bots spamming the comments.
@@ClaytonStone895 I don't have that impession. Tolkien fans I know are vocal about their dissapointment. The non fans are just underwhelmed by the trailers. And what about all the dislikes on you tube?
I had high hopes when I first heard about this project, but I think everything I have seen reminds me more of an artpiece from the lds church than Middle Earth.
I have no doubt there are amazing craftmen working on parts of this project, and I feel sorry for them and the actors, but the showrunners have changed too much, it just don't feel like Middle Earth any more.
@@svanemy Pure nonsense. Every fan I know is excited for the project, and the trailers have been EPIC. It sounds like you’re not a real fan.
@@ClaytonStone895 Good for you, if you are excited about the show. I do not know how you would define a real fan, but I love Tolkien. I love his books, I have read most of them multiple times, I love so much of the artwork inspired by Middle Earth. I love the lotr triology by Peter Jackson. I have spent so much time with it all, it now feels like a part of my identity
I just do not think the trailers I have seen lives up to any of my expectations. If this was anything else than Middle Earth, I would not be dissapointed enough to make a comment on you tube. But both you and I have a right to our oppinion. I hope you and your friends will enjoy the show.
@@ClaytonStone895 Good for you jabbing low. You were met with civil discourse and behave like this. Keep up the good work, having a blast following along. And as fan, this project has me nervous, your welcome to be excited, however you have zero right to tell other people how they should feel.
They're like kids high on candy at the zoo!
Watching this after S1:E8 of Rings of Power. Very disappointed with what came from "they have let us make the show we want to make."
Although, it had a lot good things about it, but main story that came out had a lot more messups. I hope the new season does something about it - or even a whole reboot with any scenes that were cut from the final product.
For sure it's a dream come true if only marvel DC and starwars had more spunk
The Playlist is the complete Marvel panel in chronological order so you can start with the first and watch straight through bit.ly/MarvelComicCon2022 Enjoy! and the DC panel will be up in a couple of hours!
7:14 they allowed you to make a show, based on their diversity policies.
Right after it Colbert shoot them 😆😆😆
Tom Shippey was fired
Yes, because he broke his NDA.
Tom Shippey
@@Bindi342 Which he didn't do for 6 movies, riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight, I bet you'd believe anything. 🐑
This did not reassure me one bit!
Thank you a lot for this upload 👍
Do you need a pillow to cry on?
You dissapoint