Record Vacuum Machines: ThePro-Ject VC-E2 and the Record Doctor VI
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 18 сен 2024
- My go-to vinyl record cleaning method has included the Record Doctor VI for years. It might be time to retire it for the more "automatic" Pro-Ject VC-E2.
Buy a Joy of Vinyl t-shirt! : www.etsy.com/s...
Find out more at JoyOfVinyl.com
Written & Produced by Rick Coste
You can learn more about Rick and his work at RickCoste.com
I also have a Record Doctor VI and does a great job cleaning and drying my records and also have other record machine i got 2 spin clean washer, vinyl styl record washer, digital ultrasonic cleaner for cleaning my records and humminguru ultrasonic cleaner machine for rinse and drying my records and they all do a great job cleaning my records make them nice and shining and sounds great.
I can only imagine what that workshop looks like, Daryl. Probably like mine with a bunch of cleaning methods lined up. One of these days I'll add an ultrasonic cleaner to the mix too!
I have an older Okki Nokki that's similar to the Project but for the platter diameter. I rinse the record immediately after cleaning with a separate bottle of distilled water then vacuum again. The Spin Clean is used for soiled records prior to the Okki. This prevents excess buildup of dirt in the vacuum holding tank. Last step is a run through a Degritter. Happy listening 🎶. Greg
That's a good idea to use the Spin Clean first on dirtier records. Then I might want to buy a second spin-clean for the rinse (unless I dump the first clean and immediately refill it with clean distilled water, which I suppose would be cheaper 😎).
I have the Record Doctor 6 and it does plenty good for me. I also have the Spin Clean but have never thought to use it as a final 'distilled only' rinse and then placing the record back onto the Record Doc. I think I might add this step to my cleaning process. Thanks for the idea. I only keep about 75 records in my collection so my cleaning chore is very minimum. I usually only clean 1 maybe 2 records at a time, per listening session. And the MoFi sleeves definitely help maintain record cleanliness. 👍
Like you, I highly recommend all stock sleeves be replaced with anti-static quality sleeves after cleaning. You MoFi sleeves are perfect. The thought behind the distilled water rinse is to ensure there's no minute amount of soap from the initial clean that dries in the groove or leaves a thin film.
Yeah, I used the technique an hour ago, on my newly purchased Duke Ellington & John Coltrane, sounded as good as ever...Vintage Pioneer SX-1080, Elac Solano bookshelf speakers, Elac Varro Reference Series 10" sub and 50th Rega P3. 💥@@TheJoyofVinylRecords
@@tima.478 The Rega is a great turntable. I've recommended it to friends many times who are looking for a better turntable.
@@TheJoyofVinylRecords It is definitely hard to beat at its price, especially when fitted with the Exact MM cart!
As you know my wife and I are currently tag teaming with the tried and true Spin Clean method. Every time I think about ordering one of those vacuum systems and see the total at checkout my mind immediately goes to calculating how many new albums that would mean added to our collection, lol! I can definitely see the usefulness and value but with less than 50, 33 to be exact albums in our collection, I think that purchase will wait until we start getting up over the 200 mark :-)
On a sidenote, I had some time to do some experimenting with the different platter mats and have found that I prefer the 3.8 mm Foley rubber mat over the cork, cork/rubber hybrid and acrylic. To my ears with my current system the acrylic gave a considerable boost to the mid range that was not as appealing to the ears, especially in the vocal ranges. I will say that there was also a slightly noticeable boost in the overall definition/separation but at least with vocally heavy albums like Bread and Karen Carpenter that improvement was completely overshadowed by that most unappealing mid range bump. The cork and cork/rubber hybrid produced virtually the same results as each other which wasn’t all that bad in themselves, but ultimately seemed “thin” and lacked the warmth of the slightly thicker all rubber mat.
I am currently on the hunt for a copy of Herbie Hancock‘s Maiden Voyage and am anticipating that the acrylic mat will completely shine on 100% instrumental albums and look forward to seeing if this theory is true or just wishful thinking :-)
Blessings
Thanks for the mat feedback! I will like to hear if the Herbie Hancock does benefit from the acrylic mat. Based on what you said I am going to pull out my rubber mat and test it against the cork/rubber hybrid to see if I hear a similar result. Was listening to Linda Ronstadt last night and that will probably be a great test.
And on the Spin-Clean - you can't go wrong with it.I waited for quite a while before adding a record cleaning machine to the mix. It's not a "must have".
Hi Rick. I don't have a vacuum system but I would have no issue of having gone that route when I very recently purchased a record cleaning machine. I went ultrasonic but I think the vacuum systems out there may have an advantage over the blow drying method that my ultrasonic Humminguru employs as its way to dry the grooves.
As I mentioned in a previous comment on another video you did on record care, I think that your method of using a distilled water rinse after the cleaning process is a really good idea, as opposed to what happens with the ultrasonics and their blow drying of a non-rinsed record straight out of the bath water. Anything left behind will only get dried right into the grooves or back onto the record surface itself. I'm thinking I might need to pick up an old tried and true Spin Clean simply for a rinse and rub before I place it back into the Humminguru to blow it dry. Thank you for your wisdom and always interesting videos. It's great having you around to upload good content. Keep up the stellar effort, Rick.
Thank you so much for the kind comments! That means a lot as I'm learning more and more from folks like you, Carrie.
I can't say enough about the Spin Clean as the final rinse before drying or vacuuming.
I made a similar upgrade about a year ago from the Record Doctor V to the Pro-ject VC-S2 ALU and get great results, even on par or better than my ultrasonic unit.
The Pro-ject is definitely quieter and I feel it's a stronger vacuum than the Record Doctor.
I use a 3 step process, first a clean with the included wash it fluid, 2nd with a tergikleen/ilfotol mix, and third a distilled water rinse right on the Pro-ject unit. I use different brushes for each step, agitating gently each step.
I set in a dish drying rack and by the time the next record is cleaned the previous one is fully dry and goes into a fresh archival sleeve.
You use a very similar process but with an added step. Is the tergikleen/ifotol all that's in that particular mix? Would you mind sharing it? I have tergikleen but not ifotol. If you don't mind doing so but are not comfortable sharing it here, you can get in touch with me at joyofvinyl.com/contact/
@@TheJoyofVinylRecords I don't mind at all I got the idea from Patrick the vinyl archivist @pbthal. (I don't use his antistatic coating just distilled water for the rinse.)I always thought the surfactant part of tergikleen was pretty weak and never spread like the London Jazz collector recipe did but wanted to avoid the alcohol.
I saw his video on cleaning and already had both on hand so I figured I would give it a shot. I was really impressed with the results.
I basically make a gallon of tergikleen at 15 drops a gallon I keep in a closet. Then I have a few 300ml flip top bottles for application to the records. Once I fill that bottle with tergikleen I top it off with 1.5ml of ilfotol for a 1:200 dilution.
Hi Rick, I have the S2 model with the screw down clamp. I purchased it in the UK and it was only £349 which was a big saving on the newly introduced S3 and only a small premium on the “baby” EC.
I have cleaned approx 700 records, including my son-in-law’s so I am now down to £0.50p a disc which no longer sounds so bad. I have used both the Project cleaner and a Tergitol solution. Without a microscope on the grooves to see which removes closest to all the k, then I favour the Project solution. I was advised to use an old fashioned paint pad cut to size rather than the brush. The hairs are deep enough to get into the grooves and are much finer than the provided brush. I have a plastic back to the pad which keeps the pressure even across the disc. With a quick wipe with a soft cloth then all the fingerprints disappear. I don’t rinse afterwards. Rgds
Thank you for this! @@ganonkenobi
@@ganonkenobi Thank you for this!
OK, since my post last month the Pro-ject VC-E that I have owned for over three years has developed motor issues. The record still spins correctly but the vacuuming power is weaker and no longer removes all the liquid from the surface. The motor also makes a whining noise. Sending it someplace for repair would probably cost me as much as just buying a Record Doctor VI. This is just an FYI to those thinking about buying a Pro-ject cleaner.
I may go for the VI as your review makes it sound like the automatic turning is the main difference and the X is a little too high in price for me right now...
Hi Robert - Sorry to hear that! The Record Doctor VI is a great unit. And yes - the only difference is it's manual and the vacuum slot is below the record. I actually use both units in my cleaning routine since the Record Doctor VI does such a great job. I use it for the final vacuum before the record goes in an anti-static inner sleeve. I actually think, after using the Project for a few weeks now, that the Record Doctor has a stronger motor.
Robert, I got the same VC-E with the same problems! How did solve them? Thank you.
I got adventurous because I figured there was nothing to lose. I opened it up, cleaned the inside with an air duster and sprayed QD contact cleaner into the motor and other parts I thought needed it. It has been working fine ever since! I am no expert tech so if you try this please understand it’s at your own risk…@@alessandrobonfatti7727
You need to add the solution provided to water - adding neat is to concentrated.
You should check out the new motorized, dual-sided Record Doctor X
I know! Would you believe it came out within a month after I purchased the Pro-Ject? Go figure…
Hi Rick,
I adopted your original process with the RD and Spin Clean using TergiKleen in lieu of the RD solution. This process has served me very well. I think I have rescued at least a dozen or so records from "surface noise hell" with the TergiKleen. I am interested in knowing why you have moved away from that product. Joe
Hi Joe! I haven't completely moved away from Tergikleen. I plan to go back to it. I wanted to see how the Pro-Ject's fluid went as they use something similar. When it's gone it's back to the Tergikleen/Distilled water for me.
👌@@TheJoyofVinylRecords 👌
I started with and remain with the Vinyl Vac, complete with my DIY platter and noisy little shop vac. I of course am hoping that the painters pads I am using with the supplied VV cleaning solution is working as well as those expensive machines are. I rinse my records right there on the platter. I never felt that the record was wet enough after the vacuuming to necessitate exposing it back to the ambient air for any period to collect another coating of house dust and dander. I WAS considering selling a kidney to get me a Humming Guru, but now I am hearing that the 40mhrz that and the "bucket" chinese ultrasonics that use that frequency is fine for metals but does a number on your record grooves after a number of cleaning cycles. That leaves the more expensive 120khrz machines which I'd have to sell my car to buy. Oh well, I guess I could have all my food and stuff delivered by Amazon and do my own surgeries with telehelp. But at least my music would sound good, right?
😂😂😂 Alwaya make me laugh.
The thing I like about what I've read is that the Vinyl vac utilizes your own shop vac, which has a very powerful motor when compares to other solutions.
I hope the E2’s defects are fixed - getting progressively louder, the fragile motor mounts, dying after a few years.
My E2 was getting slightly louder too.
I hope someone does a review soon on the Record Doctor X…
I know! It came out within a month after I bought the Pro-Ject. If only I had a crystal ball...
I've got a cheaper GOKA acuum and use L'Art du Son fluid with distilled water and it erases finger prints! Deft never felt there's any need for adding another step/cleaner to the process 🤷🏻
I wasn't aware of the GOKA - just had to look it up.
How do I clean my records? Old school, but am considering my first system. Currently I just put an old cd over the label (with tape over the hole) and spray with a solution of about 8 ounces distilled water, a quarter of one drop (dip it with a toothpick) of dawn and 3-4 drops of isopropyl alcohol. Spray it till wet, agitate with a small cloth then dry with microfiber cloth thoroughly. I also use a newish old stock disc washer before each spin cause my house is dry and staticky.
I used to use a mixture similar to what you are using. The funny thing is - as my as my most recent purchase of the Pro-Ject goes - no sooner did I buy it than Record Doctor came out with a version 10 that's fully automated and vacuums both sides at the same time...
I think if your records are pretty clean already an ultrasonic machine will bring that extra goodness, but if you buy grungy ones it’s going to leave dirt/fingerprints behind. I have experience with the VC-E but not with an ultrasonic so am I on track?
I haven't yet had the chance to try an ultrasonic. When I get my hands on one I'll run a comparison.
I’ve seen comments that say wait for the new Okki Nokki but we’ve been waiting for years, so is that really an option?
I have a similar process for cleaning but I dont use the Spin Clean brushes on the unit. Just a vigorous spinning session in distilled water to rinse. Rinsing is very important I feel.
I dont use the brushes because I have heard that they can scuff the records when placing them in and out of the unit.
Thoughts?
I like your vids! Just found your stuff. Thanks
Hi! And thanks for stopping by!
The distilled water spin is essential - as you said. I'd have to say the brushes are safe as long as they are kept clean. I've literally cleaned hundreds of records and every one has gone through the spin clean with the brushes. They are the only thing that will remove greasy fingerprints or other surface oils that aren't picked up by the vacuum.
What goat hair brush do you use? Is it the one wich came with the Pro-ject cleaning machine?
Yes - that's the one I'm using. I also use the Record Doctor brush (which I prefer). That's not goat hair but I understand the new one with the Record Doctor X is.
Rick, you go through a lot more effort than I am willing to put in, to clean my records.
I use my VPI 16.5 machine.
I pour my Musical Surroundings' "record time" liquid, spread it around with the 16.5's included brush, and then vacuum it off (one rotation looks to be completely dry, but I give two rotations (it takes only ~3 more seconds)). But I wonder if that extra rotation, on an apparently dry looking record, introduces any static electricity?
To my eye, the record looks spotless. If there are fingerprints, I do not think that the stylus will come in contact with them, as they are on the surface, and the stylus rubs below the surface (not entirely sure on this).
Would your method make my records sound better? Perhaps.
But I am not sure I would hear the improvement, or it would be so subtle, that I would not be willing to put in the extra time.
I get it... that it is comforting to know that there are no fingerprints, and the record will be squeaky clean, using your method. It is a personal choice, and people should do whatever works for them. But I know that I am not going to go that extra mile, for what I do not think that I will hear.
And it also comes down to people that enjoy performing the cleaning process vs. those that find it to be a chore. I am in the middle.
I even stopped using my ultrasonic machine, because I am unsure that I heard any improvement. And the extra time it takes, and having to replace the evaporating distilled water, and the chemicals, was just too much time and effort for little to no perceived sonic benefit.
And I know that the ultrasonic machine was doing its job, because the filter would show dirt after enough record cleanings. But it all boils down to whether or not I could hear it -- and I cannot say that I could. Maybe my teenager ears would have heard a difference -- but those ears are long gone.
My poor teenage ears are long gone as well. My fault for what I put them through. The VPI 16.5 machine is a wonderful machine and I can't say with any level of certainty that there would be a definite audible improvement. My use of the Spin-Clean post-vacuum is inly to make sure there is no residue. I believe the VPI has a stronger vacuum as well than either the Pro-Ject or the Record Doctor so you benefit from that.
You raise a good question about the extra spin introducing static. I've wondered that myself with my machine. I haven't experienced that but it's on my mind.
You should look into the Kirmuss system
I will be. I've gone to the website a number of times and have yet to click "buy" on their machine. I have no doubt I will at some point..
Which of the two is quieter? I have a Record Doctor 6, and am not comfortable using it without ear plugs-kind of a pain.
Hi Scott! I agree the Record Doctor is loud. The Pro-Ject is quieter but only “slightly” quieter. I also find it takes less time so that’s easier on the ears too. Unfortunately it’s still a vacuum.
Not sure if i have asked before, but do you have any experience wth the vinyl vac?
I don't, but I know some folks really like it.
@@TheJoyofVinylRecords right on, bud. Thanks for the response. Just ordered one and made the lazy Susan. I figured I would give it a try before diving into the Humminguru. That Santa may bring..... wink wink. I will let you know how it goes.