Alternate lineage option: Tortle. You lose a point from your starting stats, but you get a base AC of 17 on account of your shell, so you can still have a good AC without losing access to your Monk abilities.
Tortle. Oath of Ancients Paladin 8. Kensei Monk 12. AC 17 from tortle +2 for kensei weapon. Evasion plus Ancients Paladin spell resistance. Take a background that modifies the spell list. Tanky ninja turtle.
With regards to the Hexblade mention at the end: technically both your weapons could be charisma if you go pact of the blade. There’s nothing forcing you to make your hex weapon and your pact weapon the same weapon.
One thing I’ve wanted to try with this combination is the idea that if you go monk 14/paladin 6, you can be proficient in all saves and then add charisma on top of that. I’ve brainstormed this with fallen aasimar, oathbreaker and long death and while the stats suck, I kinda like it. Roll for stats and it can be a decent boss character
I made one prioritizing Charisma and Dexterity and took Kensei and Devotion with point buy and in the end I had this build Total Character Level: 20 Class: 14 Kensei Monk / 6 Devotion Paladin Race: Variant Human (Sharpshooter) STATS: Str 13 Dex 14 (+6) Con 10 (+1) Int 8 Wis 14 Cha 15 (+3) ASI distribution: Racial +1 Cha, +1 Con, Paladin 4 +2 Cha, Monk 4 +2 Dex, Monk 8 +2 Dex, Monk 12 +2 Dex So I started this going for the best saving throws possible but may have made the best attack bonus I've ever seen. Relevant stuff, Aura of Protection +4 to all saving throws, Diamond Soul Proficiency in all saving throws. Unarmored defense is only 17 but Agile parry from kensei allows us to up that by 2 if we make an unarmed strike and Shield of faith is prepared as a paladin if we really need it (Max 21) or ignore the unarmored stuff for plate mail and shield for a max of 24. Paladin fighting style is Dueling, so now to the real meat of this. The main goal I started with. Saving throws Str +11, Dex + 14, Con + 10, Int + 9, Wis + 12, Cha + 14, Setup: Devotion channel divinity Sacred Weapon for Cha added to attack rolls, Kensei Sharpen the blade 3 ki points for +3 to attack and damage (Atk Bonus: Dex 5 + PB 6 + Cha 4 + StB 3 = 18, Damage 1d8 + 5 dex, +3 StB, +2 Dueling = 10) Additionally you can spend 1 Ki point to do an extra Martial arts die of damage, 1d8 So our maximum damage with Smites and extra damage from Kensei is 1d8 + 1d8 + 3d8 + 10 = 50 for 2 attacks. 42 for 3 attacks. Once you've burned your smite slots disengage and repeat the process in a similar way with a longbow. Without the channel divinity of course, Atk Bonus is only 14 here. but its still 1d8 + 1d8 + 1d4 (Kensei's Shot) + 5 Dex + 3 StB + 10 if we use sharpshooter, for a total of 38 per attack Max. hope I did math correct lol
If you have a belt of giant strength (set to 21-29 str) and the sword of zariel (set to 20 cha plus other benefits), it's fucking OP, but then again legendary and artifacts tend to do that.
@@Thunder-bw9xm don't think there is a sane DM that will let you use that sword, unless you do the book it came from. It is also not needed, the Belt of Giant Strength could still be the Rare one, making your Str 21 instead of 13 is great and then you can use those ASI levels to either get Charisma up or get some mpre feats, I personally don't like the Sharpshooter on it, as I would not be using it all the times but as a back-up, also don't luke the idea of wearing armor with the build as that extra movement speed is so good, maybe just get Mobile for more move and free disengage when attacking for hit and run tactics. Also the Kensei Monk is not that needed as every monk can use a Short Sword monk weapon... so the Shadow uber advantage build could still work, but now you are a nightmare to the enemy caster and can run towards them with ease and dispatch them with a bunch of slashes and smites, maybe find a way to get Mage Armor, like Armor of Shadows if your AC is not that high, though you don't need too much AC...
@@Ruiso7 of course not, any person that looks at that sword should never give it to their players. Paladin 6 / Monk 14 + items came up when I was chatting with a friend about what the worst multiclass was, and how you'd fix it
I think something that would greatly help this build, and keep the most relevant of the Monk's side: Martial Arts, intact, is taking one feat: Eldritch Adept -> Armor of Shadows. Not only the name is thematically fitting, but also it helps this build immensely. First of all, the modifier is 13+Dex, so (eventually) you would be looking at 18 AC, which is basically Plate Armor, and since it's doesn't count as actual armor, it let's you use your Martial Arts! Now, the progression should be more like: Take 4 levels in Paladin, and instead of an ASI, take Eldritch Adept as mentioned, then at level 5 go Monk. Now, I now we just missed an ASI, but at this overall levels, a versatile longsword and the one bonis action unarmored strike we have would be a d10+d4, which the same the damage of a Glaive or Halberd if using Polearm Master! So, just imagine yourself as a Paladin that used a nerfed PAM. Also, at Paladin 4 change from Defense to Blind for the fighting style if you haven't already. After this, continue through Monk up to level 6, picking Shadow Monk as the Monastery. This for two reasons: to not delay Extra Attack any longer (PAM lite can only help us so far) and to grab one of the best features of the shadow Monk: Shadow Step. It felt like a crime to not grab the shadow teleportation that also gives advantage in the first attack you land. This level also gives us magical punches, an increased Martial Arts die (d4 to d6) and an unreliable Stunning Strike (we have shitty DC). Oh, and another ASI. Personally, I would go with Elven Accuracy and increase Dexterity, but that's up to you (But the feat is bonkers). After this, feel free to go full Paladin (maybe return later for a Monk 8 / Paladin 12 if I) you really want the extra ASI/feat and II) you know the campaign would go to 20). Now, you may have noticed that we this spread we lost both the Paladin 15 and Monk 17 features of hitting the opponent as a reaction after they hit another creature. But that could be replace with another feat, that also would make the Blindsight + Darkness combo even deadlier: Sentinel. Which has that feature, and also would stop any creature trying to flee from our area dead ok it's track. And yes, that's a THIRD feat. But tbh, this build isn't as starved for ASIs as other monks. We realistically only care for Dexterity (main attack and AC option) and Constitution (to not die). Strength is basically useless and our WIS and CHA are too low to matter (though Elven Accuracy may helps with some Paladin spells in some niche situations). Overall, this is my take on this awesome build idea. This too classes are a real challenge to mix and have any good results, but you did amazing! I simply thought of alternatives to help improve certain parts of it.
@@thomaspedersen3652 Good point. Depends though how your DM rules the feature. It's useless in many cases that prohibits you from taking actions - unless the DM allows the feature to work anyways.
These darkness tips are gold. Best part of the whole video. I love darkness. My group hates it, or at least some do. I'm going to use some of these tricks to make some builds I like but won't piss anyone off
I reread darkness, and the object you cast on can be held but not worn or carried. So no piercings :(, but you could cast on a jawbreaker and pop it in your mouth
It would take a while to get there, but unless I am mistaken, a Level 11 Way of the Long Death Monk with 7 levels in Oath of Redemption Paladin can use their reaction to take the damage an ally within 10 feet takes, then spend a Ki to be at 1 Hp even if the damage would have killed them. Drop Sanctuary on yourself and run around using Lay On Hands to stand people back up. I’d probably generally have a short bow with a melee weapon to Divine Smite if the opportunity presents itself. Even at the early levels, you’d have a lot of different tools to use in melee, ranged, support and social.
If you went kensei, you can pick up a versatile weapon and hit with it, deal bonus unarmed damage once, smite, attack again, smite, then bonus action unarmed attack and take 11 levels of paladin to add 1d8 radiant to both the weapon attacks. Alternatively, if you go oath of glory, you can bonus action after the smites for 2d8 + pal level in Thp AND get 10ft bonus speed for you and anyone friendly within 10ft of you for some extra zerg with a mate or to gtfo yourself. You also get good ranged options for yourself from both, with kensei you can pick a bunch of thrown weapons you can keep quivered and guiding bolt from glory and depending on setting the ability to treat every kensei weapon attack as magical can be an outright life saver. Combine shield of faith and an unarmed attack while wielding a kensei weapon and you get +4 to ac. Good out of combat utility and healing. I can see someone playing that and enjoying the options in combat to be hyper agressive nova, slightly defensive, or just full defense. Kinda reminds me of how melee worked in 3.5 with the feats to power attack and combat expertise work with a duskblade to give you great versitility while still giving you options that synergize with the theme of the character. Good video man!
I would have had to go to monk 6 here, Shadow Step is just sitting there! Worth losing the vengeance 15 feature. If the 5th ASI is essential, I would rather miss out on the 4th level slot [and cleansing touch] since you only get 2 max. in exchange you would pick up +4 ki, shadow step, evasion, stillness of mind, potential stuns and magic unarmed strikes
I saw the comment below suggest Tortle to fix your AC and I agree but another aspect is that you can do is Mage Armour. Take point buy and take half elf for your race. Similar stat arrangement to what you did. However at lvl 4 take Magic Initiate and pick up any 2 cantrips and then take Mage armour from the sorcerer spell list. This means you can get an eventual 18AC out of armour. Dueling fighting style and take for slightly higher damage. Take Kensei Monk for another AC bump after you attack with an unarmored attack and you can take a hand crossbow as a kensei weapon to cover close and mid range combat. For Paladin take Glory Paladin for haste at lvl 9 and now your doing 3 main attacks that you to pump you'd devine smites and then bonus action take another unarmed attack and get another AC bump.
I’ve actually been thinking that Lizardfolk is an intriguing option. Their Natural Armor is the same effect as Mage armor and then you can go SAD with DEX. You still get all the Monk stuff and can supplement with the Paladin stuff. Divine Smite helps you not fall behind in DPR and stuff like Lay on Hands, Blessed Warrior fighting style and your spell slots let you do stuff other Monks can’t do. Put any extra stats you have into Charisma for your Aura of Protection. If you go 11 Monk and 9 Paladin you get to D8 martial arts die and level 3 Paladin spells so you can get Spirit Shroud for some extra damage. Just make sure your Monk subclass doesn’t rely on Wisdom, like Shadow, Drunken Master or Kensei and that your Paladin subclass and spells don’t rely on enemies failing saves. I know Spirit Shroud isn’t considered and “optimized spell”, but if you’re rolling Monk/Paladin, you’re probably not making your decisions off a spreadsheet.
Nice, it’s a tricky build. In my build I opted for human for the +1s, went standard point array and put Str, Wis, Con, then Dex so the 12 is bumped to 13 for the monk minimum. Took a starting feat, Fighting Initiate from Tasha’s to get Unarmed Fighting, basically forgoing martial arts entirely and getting a d8 for flurry of blows as long as I drop my weapon after the first attack, like if I bury it in the enemies skull, then object interaction to pick the weapon up again after flurry of blows. Dumped charisma too because wasn’t looking much at having various spells, mostly want the slots for divine smite. Put 6 levels in Monk cuz 6 ki points gives good movement options, even in heavy armour, plus deflect missile, stunning strike, and slow fall are all super useful. This was a fun exercise, I love this kind of stuff 😄
I like your take on it, and after watching this video I was inspired to cook up a primary monk/secondary paladin build to see how to make it work the other way around. I agree with your race choice for Half-elf (Wood Elf), and the only change I would make to the starting statline is swapping Wis to 13 and Cha to 14. First 5 lvls going Kensei with Longsword and Longbow as primary Kensei weapons. Early game is more of a focus on a typical mobile Kensei Archer build, using range/kiting for safety. ASI at Monk 4 is Fey Touched, taking +1 Wis and "Bless" for the enchantment spell (1 free cast per day + saves you a prepared option to choose a different spell from Paladin later). Paladin 4 going Devotion Paladin. Take the Dueling fighting style to benefit one-handed attacks with Longsword. Devotion spells of Pro GvE and Sanctuary don't over-rely on the lower casting stat, and the Channel Divinity Sacred Weapon can still give us a +2 magic weapon enhancement for either the longsword or the longbow. Plus, the Channel Divinity is a short-rest resource along with our ki points, and Sacred Weapon makes a good alternative to the lvl 11 Kensei Sharpen the Blade feature. Pal4 for the ASI is just bumping Dex. This is a highly mobile switch-hitter, that can handle pretty well in either ranged or melee. For melee combat, slap Shield of Faith on ourselves along with Agile Parry from Kensei to keep AC pretty good (10+4 Dex +2 Wis +2 Shield of Faith +2 Agile Parry = 20AC at lvl 9), and prioritize using Ki points on either Step of Wind disengage to get in and get out or Patient Defense for the added disadvantage on attacks against our 20AC if forced into prolonged melee. For ranged combat, either Bless to help with accuracy, or Divine Favor to add a little more damage to each hit, on top of the Kensei's Shot as a resourceless damage add-on to keep damage consistent. For fights we use the Sacred Weapon (action), we can either go Shield of Faith (bonus) for melee or Divine Favor (bonus) for ranged, ensuring round 1 of any combat is set-up and positioning and everything else is ready for what we are facing. I fully admit I'm a sucker for Kensei Monk though, so my bias definitely influenced how I decided to build this. I also prefer to make "sub-optimal" builds all-arounders anyway, since a sub-optimal build trying to specialize in something will never compete with optimal builds specializing in the same thing, and playing the guy that can cover a gap as needed can be really rewarding as a playstyle. All in all, I think it turned out pretty well as an alternative to yours!
Why not go Kensai 14 Paladin 6 focus Str and Cha. You could make longsword a monk and kensai weapon. Use up to 3 attacks, same as you build, but have a +3 weapon even if your dm wont hand them out, options to make your AC higher, and you wouldnget better saves. Save the spell slots for crotical hits or utility spells. This would also open up some more racial options like dwarf.
That 16 DEX just screams Medium Armor Master. You made a great build. I like that integrity. Especially the Darkness on a tongue Piercing. Like.... WOW.
I enjoyed the series lot and hope you can continue it. Some similar ideas - worst race & class combos, builds with worst feats and no ASI, 5 fun and different fighter builds as they usually get the rap as being boring.
Gave this a shot playing a tortle for the A.C. went strength based, took the tavern brawler feat, glory paladin to grapple, and way of the open hand monk
One of our campaigns I made a kensei monk that had amazing stats and so I was gonna do a 14 kensei monk for proficiency in all saves and 6 paladin for Aura of protection.
It's rather ironic these classes work so poorly together, since their historical inspirations were, well, _very_ similar. Monks are... well, monks. Mostly eastern-inspired, Buddhist monks. Paladins were monks as well. Monks of the orders of the Knights Templar, the Knights Hospitaller and the Teutonic Knights. Christian (Catholic at first) religious orders founded during the crusades, which had vows of chastity and poverty (and obedience).
I have been thinking about this since the original poll. And probably the best subclass combo is Glory Paladin and Kensei Monk. I think you want a race with a con bonus and natural armor. Lizardfolk do well and with point buy you can get at least a +1 is every and dump intelligence. You have lower AC for a while, but invest in Dex and it will come around. Your HP suffers less, you get a steady source of temp HP, and you have monk weapons you can smite with using your Damage plus good armor with you monk abilities.
challange build: a changling that can go into diffrent personas, and realisticly sell that they are that, not a skill monkey as they only need deseption for most skill checks, but if your in a warrior persona you can do extra attack and hit alot, if your in a healer persona you can heal somewhat convincingly, and if your in a druid persona you can turn into beasts. basicly you can have diffrent personas you swop between that all somewhat work belivibly as if you where that character.
If Paladin had access to Unarmed Fighting Fighting Style so many more options would be opened up. It's a shame really. There's still the 2 level Fighter dip though, which remains king imo. Now I'm just thinking of how to make a Kensei monk that's got a 6 level Paladin dip to see if that works out well.
I built a Ponk (palidin monk) that was standard human. I went Oathbreaker Paladin Way Of the Kensei monk, focusing on a more Dexterous Paladin who could frontline. Full build listed below: Standard array: 15 (+1) Dex 14 (+1) Char 13 (+1) wis 12 (+1) str 10 (+1) con (yes its rough, And it doesn't get much better 8 (+1) int Start Palidin, Light armor, Longsword. Oath of Vengence, Conquest, Or even Oath breaker are all really strong choices. I'm going oathbreaker. Level 4 get resilliant constitution. Level 5 extra attack Level 6 aura Level 7 monk 1, ditch the armor. Level 8 Dedicated monk weapon, longsword Level 9 Way of Kensei, focus on Agile Parry giving you a +2 to ac as long as you are willing to make an unarmed strike as part of your main action. This gives us a decent enough armor class at 10 + 3+ 2+2 (agile parry) at 17. Level 10, take Fey touched. Half feat bumps the charisma, and gives you Misty step as well as a enchantment or Divination spell. Hex and hunters mark are two standouts. Level 11, Palidin 7, you get your aura. Oathbreaker gets aura of hate, just adds more damage to what you can get from three to four attacks; granted its only a +2 damage but that includes all allied undead and fiends within a certain radius around you. Level 12, bump dexterity by 2 (you could've done this sooner but still) 13 monk 5 stunning strike (our wisdom based DC isn't great for this but by now the DC is 15 so it's unlikely but possible to land) Level 14 monk 6 gets One with the blade, but more importantly, Deft strikes. When we hit a creature with our Melee weapon, we can spend a ki point to deal additional damage equal to our Martial arts die. This will be used in tandem with our smites to give us an extra little umph. Especially on crits. Level 16 monk 8, we cap our dexterity, improving our AC, initiative, and chance to hit and damage. From here monk would get you more ki, and sharpen the blade along with a higher damage martial arts die to add to your attacks.
You can still use Flurry of Blows and Patient Defense and Step of the Wind while wearing armor, as well as deflect missiles and stunning strike and all that
@@dreamwanderer5791 that’s true, though it would be 2 cause it’s 1+Str for damage, but the Unarmed fighting style would allow it to work (if that were available to paladins)
@@ZeroRoyale technically it is distinct, the Martial Arts feature allows you to make one UA strike as a BA, Flurry of Blows allows you to spend a Ki to make two. Strictly speaking you need to decide which to use before you take the BA, which has always been an annoying play pattern to me, but it does allow you to make two, but not one, unarmed strikes as a bonus action. The ramifications of this distinction are much more in OneDnD, where those unarmed strikes can be grapple/shove attempts instead, and also can be made before you take your action, allowing a PalaMonk to grapple and prone an enemy before smiting them with their action (though the new smite rules might inhibit this)
Another potential route for multiclassing these would be to find a third multiclass that synergizes with both. I'd give an idea, but that's a lot of work searching through options I can't be arsed to do right now.
Legacy centaur makes unarmed strikes weapon attacks and beefs up your movement speed and gives you more opportunities for bonus action attacks 37% chance of rolling at least one nat 20 in 9 rolls
Ngl, I've dreamed of making a "Kamen Rider" build capitalizing on the "Rider Kick" (Smiting Flying Kick - probably not allowed RAW-wise) for years now. It's only good if you roll for stats cuz going point-buy is just a disaster.
I'm either Deaf or distracted, as i didn't hear you mention that Patient Defense, and Step of the Wind DO NOT have the Unarmed Caveat, i mean the Spells are better utilized, but in a pinch? D&D&D, Double Dash and Dodge. Options are great, especially when they're only a Short Rest Away.
Divine Smite already works with Flurry of Blows and unarmed strikes. From the Sage Advice Compendium: Can a monk use Stunning Strike with an unarmed strike, even though unarmed strikes aren’t weapons? Yes. Stunning Strike works with melee weapon attacks, and an unarmed strike is a special type of melee weapon attack. The game often makes exceptions to general rules, and this is an important exception: that unarmed strikes count as melee weapon attacks despite not being weapons. Divine Smite has the same wording as Stunning Strike, so this ruling applies to it as well. It technically doesn’t apply to effects that say “when you attack with a weapon”, but at my table I’d rule that it would apply there, too. I feel the RAI here is that the difference between attacking with a battle axe and a kick is that one is an axe and one is a foot. I know the SAC does contradict this ruling in another place, but it also supports it again as well, so it’s 2:1 in favor of unarmed strikes being melee weapon attacks.
@@tjstyles1171 In another sage advice, he clarifies why it doesn't work with unarmed strikes. From the rules on Divine Smite- "... you can expend one spell slot to deal radiant damage to the target, in addition to the *weapon's* damage". An unarmed strike's damage role isn't the same as a weapon's damage roll, so divine smite can't be applied as you aren't rolling a weapon's damage
I may be mistaken but I think there's been a small miscalculation for the point buy stats. With an 11 to 13 in Charisma and the 16 in Dexterity then I'm not sure if you would get two 14s. Not vital to the build necessarily because most DMs I know do starting feats that could round out that stat point but still wondering in case I missed something. Still an awesome video P. S. I'm trying an alternate version of this that uses Kensei and uses the paladin as essentially a smite machine
he's probably using the flexible ability score bonus thing from Tasha's. It actually works out if you put the +2 in dexterity and the +1's in con and wisdom.
People are nuts thinking this is a bad multiclass. It just takes longer to take off but at high levels you are seriously basically immune to magic as most all your saves will be in the 20's. Max your Cha, bare 13 str so you can multiclass and put what you can in other things. 12 con, then make dex and wis as high as possible within point buy. Late levels wear a strength item, con item to set to 19 and +3 Ring/Cloak of protection and you are golden.
I agree. I was intrigued by the possibilities here and rolled one up for kicks and it appears super viable with above average sustained and nova damage options plus lots of durability and out of combat utility. But yeah, it takes longer than other things to “get going”, which is fine in a long campaign. For low level stuff, yeah, not an overly effective multi-class.
We've done a select few of these, my favorite is the Iron Bull: ruclips.net/video/-c9tWYhczv0/видео.html But you're right we should try and tackle them more often!
@@DnD_Daily I wanna see paladin ranger! I imagen a flying race, blind fighting and fog cloud/darkness and both ranged and melee attacks with the same weapon. (maybe look at the Hoopak)
If the DM decides to override some of the nuances (remove Paladin OR Monk ability score prerequisites and allow unarmed strikes to smite), does the build become any good? At higher levels, dropping 4 smites and 4 stunning strikes in one turn sounds really powerful.
I think you probably did the best you could do with this multiclass, but as a DM I could never recommend this to a player. It's just way too below average and turns on way too late. Using Flurry of Blows doesn't seem efficient or flavorful when it's damage is entirely dependent on Hunter's Mark; you'd be better off just using the Two Weapon Fighting. I think you hit the nail on the head at the end: the strategies this multiclass implements can be done much better by a different multiclass. Great theory crafting, great vid, I just think this particular multiclass is really difficult to make "fun," especially for a long term campaign. Not without some at-the-table homebrewing, anyway.
I would think if you went Monk (Kensei) 6, Paladin 5-6 (Vengeance) then Monk all the rest. This would give you some spells and the smite options. Could stop at Paladin 4 unless you want the mount and or Aura of Protection. Or Monk 17 and paladin 3. Dueling fighting style.
I’m curious as to whether or not sun soul would be worth looking into here, as the “radiant sun bolt” feature as I understand it would make for a consistent d6+dex (assuming 5th level) it counts as a ranger spell attack that you’re proficient in, and it doesn’t seem to rely on martial arts at all; though it does scale with the die, and mixes with paladin flavor extremely well
I just started the video, but i also tried making this, considering focusing and 4 different stats i decided to only have con in 10 so its not - and took the tough feat with custom lineage, that +2 to hp lowkey behaves like con 16, i dont wanna ruin this video by sharing my build on top of his, just wanted to share atleast this part of it
Just finished the video, we went the same route with the Shadow Monk and the hit and run tactic smite, our stats were pretty similar except my cha is higher con is just 10, at first I was going with Dual Wielding, but then I added more flavor with the dual-bladed scimitar, i don't really focus on martial arts so not having a Monk weapon doesn't effect me, as long as I can use my ki points, but for flavor if u dissarm me, u better have hands 😂, I don't agree with the build not being optimal but when I'm building I don't only focus on Combat but I focus a lot on roleplay, before doing this build I think, why did this character decided to be a Monk Paladin, I don't think, how can I make a useful Monk Paladin This was fun, Im doing this more often, thanks, been watching ur videos for some time now, helps me a lot, big fan
Why not focus on finesse weapons and Dex. You can hit 10-12 strength, but, you can set a short sword or at level 3( and using Tasha's) make rapier or longsword a monk weapon.
I wonder how much of this build with change with my new class rules when it comes to warlock and monk. That ryle being Monks and Warlocks can choose their main mental stat when it comes to ki, spells, class abilities, and multiclassing prerequisite
if i was playing this in like a level 20 oneshot, id go 14 monk/6 paladin to be a saving throw expert but otherwise i just wouldnt play this character i'd play a tortle or another race with natural armor and then focus on dexterity (for attack rolls) and charisma (for saving throws)
My opinion is that going monk/Paladin means gimping you’re build so that you can unarmed Smite. Any DM that doesn’t let you do the Cool Thing that’s objectively suboptimal is being an ass.
Ypu can use Flurry of blows after the atack action, doesn't matter if you're wearing armor. Also, Crawford stated that unarmed strikes also count as weapon atacks, so you could totally go for a multiatack with your ction and follow up with a flurry of blows for a total of 4 atacks, adding a smite in each of them
Crawford said that unarmed strikes count as weapon attacks, but he also explicitly said that RAW you can't smite with unarmed attacks, because Divine Smite specifies that it adds to your weapon's damage and unarmed strikes are not weapons. The One D&D UAs for Paladin did add unarmed strikes to the attacks that one can smite with, but the first UA restricted it to one smite per turn, so you could theoretically smite with one flurry of blows attack but not all of them. Meanwhile, the second UA changed smite to a bonus action Paladin spell, so it can only be used on a single attack made with the Paladin's action on their turn, so not only could you not smite with every flurry of blows attack, but you can't actually flurry of blows and smite at all on the same turn.
@@CivilWarMan you caught me on that one with smite only adding to the weapon dmg🥺 guess you could only smite on your action atacks and then go for a Flurry of Blows for some extra dmg, but with no smites. About One DyD, I haven't read anything about it, honestly, so I can't really theorycraft anything about it
Yes, but this ruling was designed for class identity and not balance. Allowing any attack made with the attack action on the player's turn to use smite does not negatively effect Paladin-Monk balance.
Because of the rules on Unseen Attacker, ie if you attack and the enemy can't see you due to darkness, invisibility, etc you get advantage on the attack roll, however you still need a way to see the enemy to attack without disadvantage which is why we took the blind fighting style 👍
that would probably work better (flavorwise i havent read the bloodhunter) but you'd ofcourse need to ignore the you can use wisdom thingy that, iirc, exists@@jugglejunk
Alternate lineage option: Tortle. You lose a point from your starting stats, but you get a base AC of 17 on account of your shell, so you can still have a good AC without losing access to your Monk abilities.
Pluuuuuuus TEENAGE MUTANT NINJA TURRRRTLES!!!!!!
Tortle. Oath of Ancients Paladin 8. Kensei Monk 12. AC 17 from tortle +2 for kensei weapon. Evasion plus Ancients Paladin spell resistance. Take a background that modifies the spell list. Tanky ninja turtle.
@sphotianos I was thinking Lizardfolk. With Glory Paladin and Kensei Monk.
With regards to the Hexblade mention at the end: technically both your weapons could be charisma if you go pact of the blade. There’s nothing forcing you to make your hex weapon and your pact weapon the same weapon.
One thing I’ve wanted to try with this combination is the idea that if you go monk 14/paladin 6, you can be proficient in all saves and then add charisma on top of that. I’ve brainstormed this with fallen aasimar, oathbreaker and long death and while the stats suck, I kinda like it. Roll for stats and it can be a decent boss character
I made one prioritizing Charisma and Dexterity and took Kensei and Devotion with point buy and in the end I had this build
Total Character Level: 20
Class: 14 Kensei Monk / 6 Devotion Paladin
Race: Variant Human (Sharpshooter)
STATS:
Str 13
Dex 14 (+6)
Con 10 (+1)
Int 8
Wis 14
Cha 15 (+3)
ASI distribution:
Racial +1 Cha, +1 Con,
Paladin 4 +2 Cha,
Monk 4 +2 Dex,
Monk 8 +2 Dex,
Monk 12 +2 Dex
So I started this going for the best saving throws possible but may have made the best attack bonus I've ever seen.
Relevant stuff, Aura of Protection +4 to all saving throws, Diamond Soul Proficiency in all saving throws. Unarmored defense is only 17 but Agile parry from kensei allows us to up that by 2 if we make an unarmed strike and Shield of faith is prepared as a paladin if we really need it (Max 21) or ignore the unarmored stuff for plate mail and shield for a max of 24. Paladin fighting style is Dueling, so now to the real meat of this.
The main goal I started with. Saving throws Str +11, Dex + 14, Con + 10, Int + 9, Wis + 12, Cha + 14,
Setup: Devotion channel divinity Sacred Weapon for Cha added to attack rolls, Kensei Sharpen the blade 3 ki points for +3 to attack and damage (Atk Bonus: Dex 5 + PB 6 + Cha 4 + StB 3 = 18, Damage 1d8 + 5 dex, +3 StB, +2 Dueling = 10)
Additionally you can spend 1 Ki point to do an extra Martial arts die of damage, 1d8
So our maximum damage with Smites and extra damage from Kensei is 1d8 + 1d8 + 3d8 + 10 = 50 for 2 attacks. 42 for 3 attacks.
Once you've burned your smite slots disengage and repeat the process in a similar way with a longbow. Without the channel divinity of course, Atk Bonus is only 14 here. but its still 1d8 + 1d8 + 1d4 (Kensei's Shot) + 5 Dex + 3 StB + 10 if we use sharpshooter, for a total of 38 per attack Max. hope I did math correct lol
If you have a belt of giant strength (set to 21-29 str) and the sword of zariel (set to 20 cha plus other benefits), it's fucking OP, but then again legendary and artifacts tend to do that.
@@Thunder-bw9xm don't think there is a sane DM that will let you use that sword, unless you do the book it came from. It is also not needed, the Belt of Giant Strength could still be the Rare one, making your Str 21 instead of 13 is great and then you can use those ASI levels to either get Charisma up or get some mpre feats, I personally don't like the Sharpshooter on it, as I would not be using it all the times but as a back-up, also don't luke the idea of wearing armor with the build as that extra movement speed is so good, maybe just get Mobile for more move and free disengage when attacking for hit and run tactics. Also the Kensei Monk is not that needed as every monk can use a Short Sword monk weapon... so the Shadow uber advantage build could still work, but now you are a nightmare to the enemy caster and can run towards them with ease and dispatch them with a bunch of slashes and smites, maybe find a way to get Mage Armor, like Armor of Shadows if your AC is not that high, though you don't need too much AC...
@@Ruiso7 of course not, any person that looks at that sword should never give it to their players. Paladin 6 / Monk 14 + items came up when I was chatting with a friend about what the worst multiclass was, and how you'd fix it
I think something that would greatly help this build, and keep the most relevant of the Monk's side: Martial Arts, intact, is taking one feat: Eldritch Adept -> Armor of Shadows.
Not only the name is thematically fitting, but also it helps this build immensely. First of all, the modifier is 13+Dex, so (eventually) you would be looking at 18 AC, which is basically Plate Armor, and since it's doesn't count as actual armor, it let's you use your Martial Arts!
Now, the progression should be more like: Take 4 levels in Paladin, and instead of an ASI, take Eldritch Adept as mentioned, then at level 5 go Monk. Now, I now we just missed an ASI, but at this overall levels, a versatile longsword and the one bonis action unarmored strike we have would be a d10+d4, which the same the damage of a Glaive or Halberd if using Polearm Master! So, just imagine yourself as a Paladin that used a nerfed PAM. Also, at Paladin 4 change from Defense to Blind for the fighting style if you haven't already.
After this, continue through Monk up to level 6, picking Shadow Monk as the Monastery. This for two reasons: to not delay Extra Attack any longer (PAM lite can only help us so far) and to grab one of the best features of the shadow Monk: Shadow Step. It felt like a crime to not grab the shadow teleportation that also gives advantage in the first attack you land.
This level also gives us magical punches, an increased Martial Arts die (d4 to d6) and an unreliable Stunning Strike (we have shitty DC). Oh, and another ASI. Personally, I would go with Elven Accuracy and increase Dexterity, but that's up to you (But the feat is bonkers).
After this, feel free to go full Paladin (maybe return later for a Monk 8 / Paladin 12 if I) you really want the extra ASI/feat and II) you know the campaign would go to 20).
Now, you may have noticed that we this spread we lost both the Paladin 15 and Monk 17 features of hitting the opponent as a reaction after they hit another creature. But that could be replace with another feat, that also would make the Blindsight + Darkness combo even deadlier: Sentinel. Which has that feature, and also would stop any creature trying to flee from our area dead ok it's track.
And yes, that's a THIRD feat. But tbh, this build isn't as starved for ASIs as other monks. We realistically only care for Dexterity (main attack and AC option) and Constitution (to not die). Strength is basically useless and our WIS and CHA are too low to matter (though Elven Accuracy may helps with some Paladin spells in some niche situations).
Overall, this is my take on this awesome build idea. This too classes are a real challenge to mix and have any good results, but you did amazing! I simply thought of alternatives to help improve certain parts of it.
Well done, tough nut to crack! I'd invest six levels into Monk though for that sweet teleport.
I would go that last extra one for the stillness of mind to make up for the lower stats in saves.
@@thomaspedersen3652 Good point. Depends though how your DM rules the feature. It's useless in many cases that prohibits you from taking actions - unless the DM allows the feature to work anyways.
True, though evasion (also at 7) is nothing to sneer at either. 😊
Cleansing touch at Pal14 is often better, but won't come until lvl20.
@@thomaspedersen3652 Absolutely 🙂
These darkness tips are gold. Best part of the whole video. I love darkness. My group hates it, or at least some do. I'm going to use some of these tricks to make some builds I like but won't piss anyone off
I reread darkness, and the object you cast on can be held but not worn or carried. So no piercings :(, but you could cast on a jawbreaker and pop it in your mouth
It would take a while to get there, but unless I am mistaken, a Level 11 Way of the Long Death Monk with 7 levels in Oath of Redemption Paladin can use their reaction to take the damage an ally within 10 feet takes, then spend a Ki to be at 1 Hp even if the damage would have killed them. Drop Sanctuary on yourself and run around using Lay On Hands to stand people back up. I’d probably generally have a short bow with a melee weapon to Divine Smite if the opportunity presents itself. Even at the early levels, you’d have a lot of different tools to use in melee, ranged, support and social.
If you went kensei, you can pick up a versatile weapon and hit with it, deal bonus unarmed damage once, smite, attack again, smite, then bonus action unarmed attack and take 11 levels of paladin to add 1d8 radiant to both the weapon attacks. Alternatively, if you go oath of glory, you can bonus action after the smites for 2d8 + pal level in Thp AND get 10ft bonus speed for you and anyone friendly within 10ft of you for some extra zerg with a mate or to gtfo yourself. You also get good ranged options for yourself from both, with kensei you can pick a bunch of thrown weapons you can keep quivered and guiding bolt from glory and depending on setting the ability to treat every kensei weapon attack as magical can be an outright life saver. Combine shield of faith and an unarmed attack while wielding a kensei weapon and you get +4 to ac. Good out of combat utility and healing. I can see someone playing that and enjoying the options in combat to be hyper agressive nova, slightly defensive, or just full defense. Kinda reminds me of how melee worked in 3.5 with the feats to power attack and combat expertise work with a duskblade to give you great versitility while still giving you options that synergize with the theme of the character. Good video man!
I would have had to go to monk 6 here, Shadow Step is just sitting there! Worth losing the vengeance 15 feature. If the 5th ASI is essential, I would rather miss out on the 4th level slot [and cleansing touch] since you only get 2 max. in exchange you would pick up +4 ki, shadow step, evasion, stillness of mind, potential stuns and magic unarmed strikes
Fair point!
I saw the comment below suggest Tortle to fix your AC and I agree but another aspect is that you can do is Mage Armour. Take point buy and take half elf for your race. Similar stat arrangement to what you did. However at lvl 4 take Magic Initiate and pick up any 2 cantrips and then take Mage armour from the sorcerer spell list. This means you can get an eventual 18AC out of armour. Dueling fighting style and take for slightly higher damage. Take Kensei Monk for another AC bump after you attack with an unarmored attack and you can take a hand crossbow as a kensei weapon to cover close and mid range combat. For Paladin take Glory Paladin for haste at lvl 9 and now your doing 3 main attacks that you to pump you'd devine smites and then bonus action take another unarmed attack and get another AC bump.
I’ve actually been thinking that Lizardfolk is an intriguing option. Their Natural Armor is the same effect as Mage armor and then you can go SAD with DEX. You still get all the Monk stuff and can supplement with the Paladin stuff. Divine Smite helps you not fall behind in DPR and stuff like Lay on Hands, Blessed Warrior fighting style and your spell slots let you do stuff other Monks can’t do. Put any extra stats you have into Charisma for your Aura of Protection.
If you go 11 Monk and 9 Paladin you get to D8 martial arts die and level 3 Paladin spells so you can get Spirit Shroud for some extra damage. Just make sure your Monk subclass doesn’t rely on Wisdom, like Shadow, Drunken Master or Kensei and that your Paladin subclass and spells don’t rely on enemies failing saves. I know Spirit Shroud isn’t considered and “optimized spell”, but if you’re rolling Monk/Paladin, you’re probably not making your decisions off a spreadsheet.
Nice, it’s a tricky build. In my build I opted for human for the +1s, went standard point array and put Str, Wis, Con, then Dex so the 12 is bumped to 13 for the monk minimum.
Took a starting feat, Fighting Initiate from Tasha’s to get Unarmed Fighting, basically forgoing martial arts entirely and getting a d8 for flurry of blows as long as I drop my weapon after the first attack, like if I bury it in the enemies skull, then object interaction to pick the weapon up again after flurry of blows.
Dumped charisma too because wasn’t looking much at having various spells, mostly want the slots for divine smite. Put 6 levels in Monk cuz 6 ki points gives good movement options, even in heavy armour, plus deflect missile, stunning strike, and slow fall are all super useful.
This was a fun exercise, I love this kind of stuff 😄
I like your take on it, and after watching this video I was inspired to cook up a primary monk/secondary paladin build to see how to make it work the other way around. I agree with your race choice for Half-elf (Wood Elf), and the only change I would make to the starting statline is swapping Wis to 13 and Cha to 14. First 5 lvls going Kensei with Longsword and Longbow as primary Kensei weapons. Early game is more of a focus on a typical mobile Kensei Archer build, using range/kiting for safety. ASI at Monk 4 is Fey Touched, taking +1 Wis and "Bless" for the enchantment spell (1 free cast per day + saves you a prepared option to choose a different spell from Paladin later).
Paladin 4 going Devotion Paladin. Take the Dueling fighting style to benefit one-handed attacks with Longsword. Devotion spells of Pro GvE and Sanctuary don't over-rely on the lower casting stat, and the Channel Divinity Sacred Weapon can still give us a +2 magic weapon enhancement for either the longsword or the longbow. Plus, the Channel Divinity is a short-rest resource along with our ki points, and Sacred Weapon makes a good alternative to the lvl 11 Kensei Sharpen the Blade feature. Pal4 for the ASI is just bumping Dex.
This is a highly mobile switch-hitter, that can handle pretty well in either ranged or melee. For melee combat, slap Shield of Faith on ourselves along with Agile Parry from Kensei to keep AC pretty good (10+4 Dex +2 Wis +2 Shield of Faith +2 Agile Parry = 20AC at lvl 9), and prioritize using Ki points on either Step of Wind disengage to get in and get out or Patient Defense for the added disadvantage on attacks against our 20AC if forced into prolonged melee. For ranged combat, either Bless to help with accuracy, or Divine Favor to add a little more damage to each hit, on top of the Kensei's Shot as a resourceless damage add-on to keep damage consistent. For fights we use the Sacred Weapon (action), we can either go Shield of Faith (bonus) for melee or Divine Favor (bonus) for ranged, ensuring round 1 of any combat is set-up and positioning and everything else is ready for what we are facing.
I fully admit I'm a sucker for Kensei Monk though, so my bias definitely influenced how I decided to build this. I also prefer to make "sub-optimal" builds all-arounders anyway, since a sub-optimal build trying to specialize in something will never compete with optimal builds specializing in the same thing, and playing the guy that can cover a gap as needed can be really rewarding as a playstyle. All in all, I think it turned out pretty well as an alternative to yours!
Why not go Kensai 14 Paladin 6 focus Str and Cha.
You could make longsword a monk and kensai weapon. Use up to 3 attacks, same as you build, but have a +3 weapon even if your dm wont hand them out, options to make your AC higher, and you wouldnget better saves. Save the spell slots for crotical hits or utility spells. This would also open up some more racial options like dwarf.
Idea for content. I would love a series on each class's unique role and the best things that help it fulfill; that role.
That 16 DEX just screams Medium Armor Master.
You made a great build. I like that integrity. Especially the Darkness on a tongue Piercing. Like.... WOW.
I think I finally figured out where the term nerfed comes from. Thanks for the visual!
Great series. Appreciate the creative solutions.
Bro, those earrings absolutely slap.
I enjoyed the series lot and hope you can continue it.
Some similar ideas - worst race & class combos, builds with worst feats and no ASI, 5 fun and different fighter builds as they usually get the rap as being boring.
Gave this a shot playing a tortle for the A.C. went strength based, took the tavern brawler feat, glory paladin to grapple, and way of the open hand monk
One of our campaigns I made a kensei monk that had amazing stats and so I was gonna do a 14 kensei monk for proficiency in all saves and 6 paladin for Aura of protection.
It's rather ironic these classes work so poorly together, since their historical inspirations were, well, _very_ similar. Monks are... well, monks. Mostly eastern-inspired, Buddhist monks. Paladins were monks as well. Monks of the orders of the Knights Templar, the Knights Hospitaller and the Teutonic Knights. Christian (Catholic at first) religious orders founded during the crusades, which had vows of chastity and poverty (and obedience).
I have been thinking about this since the original poll. And probably the best subclass combo is Glory Paladin and Kensei Monk. I think you want a race with a con bonus and natural armor. Lizardfolk do well and with point buy you can get at least a +1 is every and dump intelligence. You have lower AC for a while, but invest in Dex and it will come around. Your HP suffers less, you get a steady source of temp HP, and you have monk weapons you can smite with using your Damage plus good armor with you monk abilities.
challange build:
a changling that can go into diffrent personas, and realisticly sell that they are that, not a skill monkey as they only need deseption for most skill checks, but if your in a warrior persona you can do extra attack and hit alot, if your in a healer persona you can heal somewhat convincingly, and if your in a druid persona you can turn into beasts. basicly you can have diffrent personas you swop between that all somewhat work belivibly as if you where that character.
note: this build would also have to scale somewhat well on atleast one persona, so can´t just take lvl 1 in everything and call it a day
Love yer earrings!
If Paladin had access to Unarmed Fighting Fighting Style so many more options would be opened up. It's a shame really. There's still the 2 level Fighter dip though, which remains king imo. Now I'm just thinking of how to make a Kensei monk that's got a 6 level Paladin dip to see if that works out well.
I built a Ponk (palidin monk) that was standard human. I went Oathbreaker Paladin Way Of the Kensei monk, focusing on a more Dexterous Paladin who could frontline.
Full build listed below:
Standard array:
15 (+1) Dex
14 (+1) Char
13 (+1) wis
12 (+1) str
10 (+1) con (yes its rough, And it doesn't get much better
8 (+1) int
Start Palidin, Light armor, Longsword.
Oath of Vengence, Conquest, Or even Oath breaker are all really strong choices. I'm going oathbreaker.
Level 4 get resilliant constitution.
Level 5 extra attack
Level 6 aura
Level 7 monk 1, ditch the armor.
Level 8 Dedicated monk weapon, longsword
Level 9 Way of Kensei, focus on Agile Parry giving you a +2 to ac as long as you are willing to make an unarmed strike as part of your main action. This gives us a decent enough armor class at 10 + 3+ 2+2 (agile parry) at 17.
Level 10, take Fey touched. Half feat bumps the charisma, and gives you Misty step as well as a enchantment or Divination spell. Hex and hunters mark are two standouts.
Level 11, Palidin 7, you get your aura. Oathbreaker gets aura of hate, just adds more damage to what you can get from three to four attacks; granted its only a +2 damage but that includes all allied undead and fiends within a certain radius around you.
Level 12, bump dexterity by 2 (you could've done this sooner but still)
13 monk 5 stunning strike (our wisdom based DC isn't great for this but by now the DC is 15 so it's unlikely but possible to land)
Level 14 monk 6 gets One with the blade, but more importantly, Deft strikes. When we hit a creature with our Melee weapon, we can spend a ki point to deal additional damage equal to our Martial arts die. This will be used in tandem with our smites to give us an extra little umph. Especially on crits.
Level 16 monk 8, we cap our dexterity, improving our AC, initiative, and chance to hit and damage.
From here monk would get you more ki, and sharpen the blade along with a higher damage martial arts die to add to your attacks.
You can still use Flurry of Blows and Patient Defense and Step of the Wind while wearing armor, as well as deflect missiles and stunning strike and all that
Are you sure about Flurry? That’s a boost to the martial arts bonus action attack, which you can’t use while armored
It's just a really sad Flurry of Blows since it'd be 2 damage on the build per strike.
@@dreamwanderer5791 that’s true, though it would be 2 cause it’s 1+Str for damage, but the Unarmed fighting style would allow it to work (if that were available to paladins)
@@ZeroRoyale technically it is distinct, the Martial Arts feature allows you to make one UA strike as a BA, Flurry of Blows allows you to spend a Ki to make two. Strictly speaking you need to decide which to use before you take the BA, which has always been an annoying play pattern to me, but it does allow you to make two, but not one, unarmed strikes as a bonus action. The ramifications of this distinction are much more in OneDnD, where those unarmed strikes can be grapple/shove attempts instead, and also can be made before you take your action, allowing a PalaMonk to grapple and prone an enemy before smiting them with their action (though the new smite rules might inhibit this)
@@pederw4900 I checked, it was in UA, but not now. That 2 level Fighter dip though.
Another potential route for multiclassing these would be to find a third multiclass that synergizes with both. I'd give an idea, but that's a lot of work searching through options I can't be arsed to do right now.
Legacy centaur makes unarmed strikes weapon attacks and beefs up your movement speed and gives you more opportunities for bonus action attacks
37% chance of rolling at least one nat 20 in 9 rolls
I would love to see your take on the Nercodancer.
We'll add it to our list 👍
Lizardfolk, Tortle, autognome and thri-kreen all have some form of natural armor, take your pick.
Ngl, I've dreamed of making a "Kamen Rider" build capitalizing on the "Rider Kick" (Smiting Flying Kick - probably not allowed RAW-wise) for years now.
It's only good if you roll for stats cuz going point-buy is just a disaster.
Saw the notif. Had to see this for my next minature lol
If I was DM and a player wanted to build this I would definitely let them have the TWF style if they wanted.
I'm either Deaf or distracted, as i didn't hear you mention that Patient Defense, and Step of the Wind DO NOT have the Unarmed Caveat, i mean the Spells are better utilized, but in a pinch? D&D&D, Double Dash and Dodge. Options are great, especially when they're only a Short Rest Away.
I let paladins use their smite with almost everything. Even bows and ranged weapons. The only thing I don’t let them use it on is spells.
That kinda kills the specialness of Eldritch Smite.
@@benjimanblakely2293 and would probably makes a ranger player feel even worse.
Divine Smite already works with Flurry of Blows and unarmed strikes. From the Sage Advice Compendium:
Can a monk use Stunning Strike with an unarmed strike, even though unarmed strikes aren’t weapons?
Yes. Stunning Strike works with melee weapon attacks, and an unarmed strike is a special type of melee weapon attack.
The game often makes exceptions to general rules, and this is an important exception: that unarmed strikes count as melee weapon attacks despite not being weapons.
Divine Smite has the same wording as Stunning Strike, so this ruling applies to it as well. It technically doesn’t apply to effects that say “when you attack with a weapon”, but at my table I’d rule that it would apply there, too. I feel the RAI here is that the difference between attacking with a battle axe and a kick is that one is an axe and one is a foot.
I know the SAC does contradict this ruling in another place, but it also supports it again as well, so it’s 2:1 in favor of unarmed strikes being melee weapon attacks.
@@tjstyles1171 In another sage advice, he clarifies why it doesn't work with unarmed strikes. From the rules on Divine Smite- "... you can expend one spell slot to deal radiant damage to the target, in addition to the *weapon's* damage". An unarmed strike's damage role isn't the same as a weapon's damage roll, so divine smite can't be applied as you aren't rolling a weapon's damage
Ah, that makes sense. Thank you for the clarification there.
I may be mistaken but I think there's been a small miscalculation for the point buy stats. With an 11 to 13 in Charisma and the 16 in Dexterity then I'm not sure if you would get two 14s. Not vital to the build necessarily because most DMs I know do starting feats that could round out that stat point but still wondering in case I missed something.
Still an awesome video
P. S. I'm trying an alternate version of this that uses Kensei and uses the paladin as essentially a smite machine
he's probably using the flexible ability score bonus thing from Tasha's. It actually works out if you put the +2 in dexterity and the +1's in con and wisdom.
Just checked it, yeah you're totally right @@elliotbryant3459
People are nuts thinking this is a bad multiclass. It just takes longer to take off but at high levels you are seriously basically immune to magic as most all your saves will be in the 20's. Max your Cha, bare 13 str so you can multiclass and put what you can in other things. 12 con, then make dex and wis as high as possible within point buy. Late levels wear a strength item, con item to set to 19 and +3 Ring/Cloak of protection and you are golden.
I agree. I was intrigued by the possibilities here and rolled one up for kicks and it appears super viable with above average sustained and nova damage options plus lots of durability and out of combat utility. But yeah, it takes longer than other things to “get going”, which is fine in a long campaign. For low level stuff, yeah, not an overly effective multi-class.
I’d go Shadow Monk 6 into Watchers Paladin 14, taking the feat Eldritch Adept when I could to get devils sight.
Could you do a triple combo multi class that actually works 😅
I recently played a paladin 8/ hexblade 4/ divine soul sorcerer 8 that worked out pretty good.
We've done a select few of these, my favorite is the Iron Bull: ruclips.net/video/-c9tWYhczv0/видео.html
But you're right we should try and tackle them more often!
@@DnD_Daily I wanna see paladin ranger! I imagen a flying race, blind fighting and fog cloud/darkness and both ranged and melee attacks with the same weapon. (maybe look at the Hoopak)
If the DM decides to override some of the nuances (remove Paladin OR Monk ability score prerequisites and allow unarmed strikes to smite), does the build become any good? At higher levels, dropping 4 smites and 4 stunning strikes in one turn sounds really powerful.
I think you probably did the best you could do with this multiclass, but as a DM I could never recommend this to a player. It's just way too below average and turns on way too late. Using Flurry of Blows doesn't seem efficient or flavorful when it's damage is entirely dependent on Hunter's Mark; you'd be better off just using the Two Weapon Fighting. I think you hit the nail on the head at the end: the strategies this multiclass implements can be done much better by a different multiclass. Great theory crafting, great vid, I just think this particular multiclass is really difficult to make "fun," especially for a long term campaign. Not without some at-the-table homebrewing, anyway.
I love your tongue piercing tactic!
I would think if you went Monk (Kensei) 6, Paladin 5-6 (Vengeance) then Monk all the rest. This would give you some spells and the smite options. Could stop at Paladin 4 unless you want the mount and or Aura of Protection. Or Monk 17 and paladin 3. Dueling fighting style.
I’m curious as to whether or not sun soul would be worth looking into here, as the “radiant sun bolt” feature as I understand it would make for a consistent d6+dex (assuming 5th level) it counts as a ranger spell attack that you’re proficient in, and it doesn’t seem to rely on martial arts at all; though it does scale with the die, and mixes with paladin flavor extremely well
I just started the video, but i also tried making this, considering focusing and 4 different stats i decided to only have con in 10 so its not - and took the tough feat with custom lineage, that +2 to hp lowkey behaves like con 16, i dont wanna ruin this video by sharing my build on top of his, just wanted to share atleast this part of it
Just finished the video, we went the same route with the Shadow Monk and the hit and run tactic smite, our stats were pretty similar except my cha is higher con is just 10, at first I was going with Dual Wielding, but then I added more flavor with the dual-bladed scimitar, i don't really focus on martial arts so not having a Monk weapon doesn't effect me, as long as I can use my ki points, but for flavor if u dissarm me, u better have hands 😂, I don't agree with the build not being optimal but when I'm building I don't only focus on Combat but I focus a lot on roleplay, before doing this build I think, why did this character decided to be a Monk Paladin, I don't think, how can I make a useful Monk Paladin
This was fun, Im doing this more often, thanks, been watching ur videos for some time now, helps me a lot, big fan
Why not focus on finesse weapons and Dex. You can hit 10-12 strength, but, you can set a short sword or at level 3( and using Tasha's) make rapier or longsword a monk weapon.
Basic human for the +1 on all stats so you can start on a 12 on many of the requirements.
Tortle also works rather well.
I wonder how much of this build with change with my new class rules when it comes to warlock and monk. That ryle being Monks and Warlocks can choose their main mental stat when it comes to ki, spells, class abilities, and multiclassing prerequisite
You should really take a look at the gestalt rules for 5e
if i was playing this in like a level 20 oneshot, id go 14 monk/6 paladin to be a saving throw expert but otherwise i just wouldnt play this character
i'd play a tortle or another race with natural armor and then focus on dexterity (for attack rolls) and charisma (for saving throws)
☕️ ☕️
Not bad....Sage. not bad.
👏 👏 👏
Thanks my man, always good to hear from you!
My opinion is that going monk/Paladin means gimping you’re build so that you can unarmed Smite. Any DM that doesn’t let you do the Cool Thing that’s objectively suboptimal is being an ass.
Can shadow monk see in the magical darkness they cast? I thought they could not.
They cannot, that is why we pick up the Blind Fighting Style
Ypu can use Flurry of blows after the atack action, doesn't matter if you're wearing armor. Also, Crawford stated that unarmed strikes also count as weapon atacks, so you could totally go for a multiatack with your ction and follow up with a flurry of blows for a total of 4 atacks, adding a smite in each of them
Crawford said that unarmed strikes count as weapon attacks, but he also explicitly said that RAW you can't smite with unarmed attacks, because Divine Smite specifies that it adds to your weapon's damage and unarmed strikes are not weapons.
The One D&D UAs for Paladin did add unarmed strikes to the attacks that one can smite with, but the first UA restricted it to one smite per turn, so you could theoretically smite with one flurry of blows attack but not all of them. Meanwhile, the second UA changed smite to a bonus action Paladin spell, so it can only be used on a single attack made with the Paladin's action on their turn, so not only could you not smite with every flurry of blows attack, but you can't actually flurry of blows and smite at all on the same turn.
@@CivilWarMan you caught me on that one with smite only adding to the weapon dmg🥺 guess you could only smite on your action atacks and then go for a Flurry of Blows for some extra dmg, but with no smites.
About One DyD, I haven't read anything about it, honestly, so I can't really theorycraft anything about it
Yes, but this ruling was designed for class identity and not balance. Allowing any attack made with the attack action on the player's turn to use smite does not negatively effect Paladin-Monk balance.
How would you design this as a gestalt?
Tortle literally fixes half of the problems.
How would you build a WoW style deathknight or a lich king type of character
That's precisely what Oathbreaker Paladin is for! Death domain Cleric would also work.
How does darkness give advantage?
Because of the rules on Unseen Attacker, ie if you attack and the enemy can't see you due to darkness, invisibility, etc you get advantage on the attack roll, however you still need a way to see the enemy to attack without disadvantage which is why we took the blind fighting style 👍
How do see in the Darkness?
At level 4 we pick up the Blind fighting style allowing us to "see" up to 10 ft. Inside the darkness 👍
Unarmed strike not counting as weapons is one of the biggest bs i can think of. If you can attack with it and isn't a spell than is a weapon
They count. That is clarified in the Sage Advice Compendium. Search “Stunning” and it pops right up.
They count. That is clarified in the Sage Advice Compendium. Search “Stunning” and it pops right up.
Not being able to smite with unarmed is kinda bullshit.
Good, now add wizard or artificer
Bloodhunter would be cool too. Provided of course that it's allowed at the table. I would probably pick ghost slayer.
that would probably work better (flavorwise i havent read the bloodhunter) but you'd ofcourse need to ignore the you can use wisdom thingy that, iirc, exists@@jugglejunk
Paladin / Monk is so terrible lol
Shadow Sorcerer exists, just use that instead
You look better without earrings.
You left your sisters earrings on.
I think they look great.
XD