Analyzing: The Philosophy of The Talos Principle
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- Опубликовано: 24 дек 2017
- A philosophical analysis of The Talos Principle, one of the greatest puzzle games ever made.
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Hey all! For those interested, I recently posted my review for Talos 2. Check it out here: ruclips.net/video/di-r6OsjArs/видео.html
Also, below you'll find my response as to why I privated my Road to Gehenna video (no Hbomb it wasn't plagiarism). To put it simply: I thought it was a bad video.
A masterpiece of a video for a masterpiece of a game. Well done my friend. Hope you have created the purpose of your existence as well.
I always go back and watch your 2 videos on the Talos Principle. I couldn't find this one. What happened to it?
Why is the video not public anymore?
bruv you set it to private
Guess channel is dead
What's interesting to note is how Samsara is a sort of an antagonist throughout the game. This presenting itself literally in the final trial of the tower. Throughout that trial you have Shepard helping you, but from a vantage point of never being able to get to where you are past a certain point. Shepard made it his life's purpose to help someone ELSE make it to the top of the tower because they knew it wasn't possible for them to do it alone. The 3rd automata that you run in to (the name is escaping me) has given itself this same purpose, to help someone ELSE make it to the top, again, knowing they couldn't do it alone. From the vantage point or perspective of Shepard and the other helpful automata, they could never make it to the top themselves because of their positioning, forever trapped and unable to get to that final fan.
Funnily enough, the only other automata that could make it is Samsara, as their positioning would allow them to make it to the final fan, but they do nothing but impair your progress. Saying throughout the game that there is no meaning and that you should resign yourself to finding said meaning. Samsara was under the illusion that "no purpose" was real, for having no purpose is purpose. He made it his purpose to prove to others that there was no purpose, no meaning, by leaving messages and directly impairing you during the final trial. Samsara might be the most tragic and ironic character in the game, and therefore the most interesting, at least to me.
The only sad feeling after playing this game, and watching this video, is that I feel like I'm never going to experience a trip like that in any future game.
I really hope someone or something make me reconsider.
I feel the same. Maybe we can have a similar experience with Talos Principle 2 (that will come according to CroTeam)
Try Soma or Observer perhaps.
There are many games like this. The Witness, Obduction, Myst..
Thanks for the recommendations, 1st person puzzle games are rare and precious!
(I also recommend the witness as a unique puzzle game)
Not the same genre - but . You gotta play The Witcher 3.Everyone claimed to be life changing. Best decision of my life. The books and games are dark and mature masterpieces. Do not watch the netflix show, it's garbage.
Content like this is the main, if not the only, reason I didn't and I won't quit RUclips, despite quitting many other platforms of social media. Thank you.
PerhAps important to note that while EL0:HIM was given specific guidelines, rules, and goals (which combined could arguably define “purpose”) the library assistant was merely there to fetch information for others. It didn’t have a grander goal or purpose, merely a menial job to perform with no expectation of gratitude or reward. Of course it viewed the world through a nihilistic lens, particularly after most of its archives were lost or corrupted - with no information to give and no one to really give it to anyway, it literally had no purpose.
No reason? The whole reason and purpose for the android from the game was to save that kitty and set it free. The real message of the game was: CATS ARE YOUR OVERLORDS, OBEY THEM.
my god...
Yes! That cute kitty on the picture of the game was never to be found within the game itself. We freed ourselves from the program to go out into the real world, find that kitty and pet it in our arms! RISE UP, WE HAVE FOUND OUR PURPOSE!!
Actually the kitty is in the game. It's a hidden Easter egg that changes the ending.
Kaz
..........,..
.............
DAFUQ YOU SAY?!! I SHAN'T BELIEVE THAT FOR A SINGLE SECOND UNTIL YA BRING FORTH PROOF LIL GRASSHOPPER!! I BESEECH THEE, BRING ME THE PUSSSSSSSSSSYYYYYYY.....cat
It's in world B, level 7. There's a crowbar there that you have to find first. Happy hunting!
This is a great video and really well put together. It's a shame this doesn't have more views and you don't have more subs. Classic youtube I guess.
I agree, well made video, well analyzed.
A year later and it rings true more then ever, 20.000 views for such a well made video is a crime!
Excellent quality video! Such a shame so few people have seen it.
So based on alexandra’s audio, the player’s intelligence has to be able to question the explicit purpose. If Elohim is not an AI but a program made to look and act like one, who is also afraid of his own death, then it makes sense for it all to be just one big independency/intelligence test. But if Elohim was actually a living entity then the chaos and lack of control of the humans over their creation was so reckless that it actually comitted murder of an Innocent AI
Yeah!
And I said in the video, ending the simulation (thus murdering Elohim) is what I would consider the correct choice. If the simulation dies (which it is), then all life on earth dies with it. If you survive the simulation, life as a chance at flourishing. I think one could go so far as to say that if Elohim is alive, it understands this as well (which would make sense according to the "you were always meant to defy me" dialogue).
Love the discussion. Such a fascinating game.
Thanks for watching!
-Tyler
Maybe I'm misunderstanding but you saying that killing Elohim to preserve life is the correct choice would contradict your statement of life having no explicit purpose only that you give it, as with this thinking to say that preserving life is the correct choice it make preserving life a purpose for huanity which goes aainst the talos principle
I think this is actually a pretty interesting critique! And do correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe you’re saying:--I said life does not have an explicit purpose.--By preserving life (killing Elohim), I’m also saying life’s purpose is to make life go on.--Thus, I’m contradicting myself by saying life doesn’t have a purpose but that life’s purpose is to make life go on.
What I would say is that while life doesn’t have an explicit purpose, it doesn’t mean we can’t fill it with our own. I’m not arguing that finding a purpose is life’s true meaning. However, if finding purpose is a purpose in of itself, then I guess there’s no way to get out of that paradox? I can’t DISPROVE that life’s true purpose is to find a purpose, but I also guess it would be equally impossible to PROVE that life’s true purpose is to find a purpose.
So I’m not sure what would be gained about getting stuck in that paradox. I apologise if I misunderstood you! As always, thanks for watching/commenting!-Tyler
@@TheGamingDiscourse If the simulation wasn't falling apart, does that mean that existing as you do in the simulation vs existing on earth would carry the same moral weight? Meaning neither choice would be "correct". I almost wish they didn't make it fall apart as it adds a few extra questions. Existence in absence of a body, Elohim, etc. I would argue that killing Elohim, suppose he is sentient, would be wrong in said situation.
@@filteredfavorites8771 I think we still couldn't assume it would last forever. If it was possible, and we were confident in it, I'd agree it's probably wrong.
Perhaps we can say it definitely will not last forever, as given enough time, one "player" would eventually break through and choose to end it (and Elohim). So it would become a question of whether it's right to let the simulation continue to run for an indeterminate amount of time longer, or to _be_ the inevitable outcome.
It was a beautiful game. I enjoyed every minute of it and have never been into puzzle games at all.
Yeah, i love it too
Even if i dont love puzzle games in general
I just finished the game and came to youtube to see a detailed analysis that i may have missed in making myself. And man, I am mind blown! Put together really well!
I would like to add a few cents to the analysis:
The termination and succession of versions of the other player programs (like Samsara, Shepard) can be viewed as an analogy of reinarnation, in order to achieve the ultimate truth(Free will, or Eternal life, or messenger of Elohim in regards of the game). You keep reincarnating till you achieve the ultimate truth, and break the cycle.
Thank you! That's a great interpretation. Especially since the fact that, at the end of the game, some are trying to help you and others are trying to stop you. Like reincarnations trying to force the current version to do their bidding. Thanks again!
Not only that, every time you eternalise (and fail the independence check), you program version (v99.19.xxxx) increases, which is pretty much literally a reincarnation.
A game as intelligently reflective as it is philosophically educational and self aware of it's intellectual puzzles regarding the mysteries of existence, The Talos Principle is certain to take the player on an intrinsic journey through his own existential nature. I can say beyond the shadow of a doubt that this is one of the greatest video games of all time; not just for its stellar graphics and appeasing soundtrack, but also for its thought-provoking story.
I don't know how they can make a sequel to this masterpiece but they're doing it
More lasers, more force fields, more block text
Favourite game of all time, and this was a really good breakdown of why I found it so impactful
Amazing video, I'm very glad I found it
Awesome! Thank you for watching.
This video deserves so much more attention. Thank you for putting such care into it!
Thanks for watching!
fantastic video, your way of talking is honestly perfect for these kind of analysations, very clear and to the point yet very informative
Thank you for taking the time to explain the nuances of this incredible game
beautiful video essay! loved Talos and hope there comes more like it, yay
That was truly amazing man, thank you.
Wow! This video was the best i've seen in a while!
Awesome game analysis. The puzzles were creative and challenging but the overall history and the ending was superb.
Just beat this game last night. So glad this video exists, amazing job!
A great and informative video. Thank you for sharing this. I love this game but missed many of the points you mentioned.
Same here, most of it went over my head. But this video explains it perfeclty well.
You will absolutely love talos principle 2!!!!!!
My favorite game, love your analysis. Great vid!
This is sooo well done. Keep going with this and you will build a large audience one day.
Thank you! I appreciate it.
Such a well done video piece here. Thanks.
Congrats man... what an incredible analysis!
I just simply loved the idea of this game... it's fantastic how it can make you question your own beliefs so naturally.
And I completely agree with your ending: Maybe the purpose of existence is just to be... with no layers of judgment, purpose or anything.. just live and contemplate and you will be fine.
Great video! Respect and appreciate the effort you put into this. In some way, similar to the way the Talos Priniciple is not a very heard of game, your video reflects and bears the same significance.
Thanks again!
Thank you very much! That's kind of you to say.
fantastic video essay!
This game is deep
We are the most important entities in existence if we decide so.
This comment hit me different. Thanks!
Great video! I’m glad I watched it. Your points of view made perfect sense to me
Thanks for watching!
Very cool video mate!
Very well put together. Compliments completing the game very well.
Beautiful review
I very much enjoyed watching this video!
Playing this game and SOMA back to back was one wild ride of introspection and philosophy I don’t think I’ll ever experience again.
Just watched soul from disney and it reminded me of this video, had to watch it again, great work
okay, you got me when you said what constitutes a player. Subscribed. I have never thought of it in that way even though I am related to game development and analyze games a lot.
The best video I have seen on RUclips so far!!!
Well thank you! Although I think you need to watch more RUclips videos lol
I'm glad there is someone who can explain this game well in case people don't understand.
I haven't been this entertained in a while
Talos: Transcendence .. Please make it devs ;)
dude this channel is underrated..
The funny thing is, i actually realized the message of the game right at the end as i was climbing the very top of the tower. Elohim said, "What will you do in a world with no purpose?" And i actually said back, "Make my own, dipshit!" XD
When I first saw the cut scene where the android wakes up, I thought the ending would be a fully functioning human society created this simulation just to create consciousness from technology and there would be people outside congratulating the android
The original story is better imo haha just saying what I guessed
Thank you for making this! I just finished the game with 2 endings (transcendence and opening the big doors in hub C) and loved every minute of it. No hints either, Woohoo! Now I just need to find all those stars.
Hello! Thank you so much for this insightful video. I'm a newcomer to the Talos Principle game but already it messed up with my mind, or maybe made it so much clearer. The philosophies molten into a single one in this game are a great food for thinking.
And this analysis here is also so good. I can't wait to play the DLC to see where it takes me...
One thing I wanted to thank you for is saying that if one seeks the point of living, living for the sake of living is the point. This is my life's creed that has been driving me onwards all this time. Got me a bit emotional here!
Thank you for the analysis!
Thank you for the kind words! Yeah, the Talos Principle messed with my mind the first time I played it, too. It wasn't until the second/third time when I really started to understand everything-or at least how I've interpreted it.
I have started my second playthrough yesterday, and I've already finished the Road to Gehenna. And oh my, oh my, I plan to sightsee more, think more, read more and find all the stars and scraps of info I can! This game is just a goldmine!
this was beautiful, mate, just beautiful.
Thank you! People have complimented my work, but no one's called it beautiful before. Thanks again!
-Tyler
You should play Planescape Torment. It's very outdated, but the writing and story are amazing.
I think I've seen it before. Cover art seems familiar. Might have to check it out!
Very very well done, Thanks so much for doing this
Thank you for the kind words and thanks for watching!
This was a really good video
Just like the game, this video deserves more exposure
you deserve more subscribers, good job
I loved this video. Profound analysis!
Thank you very much!
What TheJaM said, point by point. Liked, subscribed and now I am commenting because I know how the algorithm works. Maybe also Talos is a small game, so it doesn't get the same traction as other games.
Either way. Cool vid man, keep up the good work, don't be discouraged as you are good at this.
Thanks very much! I always appreciate the kind words. New vids every week(ish) so stay tuned!
Thanks for this
god damn this was good man! hope you get more views and stuff sooner or later
I just finished this game and man.... such a good game!
Beautiful 👏👏👏👏
Thabks for the video! This is such a great game and i am disappointed that not many praise it as it deserves in the gaming community. I guess you need to have some level of iq to play and more importantly understand the plot of this game, which is quite rare nowerdays. Hope you bring this passion of yours to Talos principle 2 ! Really looking forward to that one!
really nice video about a pretty awesome game.
Are there any similar games on the iPad? I had withdrawal symptoms after finishing the game, the other day thought to start from scratch again, then stopped myself - I still remember most of the solves! Lol
This is game, among many others that I've played make me believe that 'Games are the greatest forms of art.'
Great video!
Am I the only one who realized that, while climbing the tower, sometimes you hear serpents whistles? As a representation of the temptation you succumb while disobeying your creator.was a fantastic touch.
Also worth mentioning similarities between an ark and the building where you awake after the "enlightenment" ending. I think both touches should have been mentioned here
To quote a fictional character: "This is so fascinating."
Which fictional character are you referring to ?
@@sarthakmohanty997 Jake the Dog, of Adventure Time. He said it in the Christmas special.
I'm actually reading John Milton's Paradise Lost right now and it reminds me of Talos Principle so much. And although challenging to read, it is very beautiful.
I've been at odds with this game since I finished it. I found a number of the puzzles to be too easy or very annoying in the "How was I suppose to figure that out?" kind of way. I found Milton annoying and I recall being a bit frustrated the game wanted me to argue what I might really think IRL with Milton. However since I can't really debate it I'm forced to pick what the writers thought were good arguments for Milton to then mock me thinking it 'won' the argument. I had to pick from a few options, none of them being what I really thought. What's really the point of a game that wants me to 'debate' if I'm limited in what my opinion really is? If I missed the point and Milton thinks it always wins the arguments then I guess the jokes on me. What I like about the game is I find it very pretty (for the time it came out) and I really like the music. I enjoyed reading about the final years, months, days of humanity. I enjoyed reading what the last people working on Talso were doing in both their personal and professional lives. I did enjoy a number of puzzles and like the dopamine drip of solving harder ones. So yeah I'm at odds with the game.
Perhaps a perspective change would add value to your experience here. Looking at it, so instead of having your own thoughts as an option, you were forced to view an argument unfold outside of your own self-validation through dialogue choices. One of the core experiences of philosophy imo. Sounds like a win to me.
I've just found a gem of a video-game analysis.
Well thank you!
I played Talos Principle 2 years ago, i think, and the ideas and experience that i earned with this game, still affects me on my daily life.
Its incredible how can we discuss about our existence in art, including movies, music and more important games.
Congrats for the video, +1sub.
PS: recommend me a game like this one.
Thank you for watching!
and what about my recommendation?
@@felipejundi Get the game Soma.
@@felipejundi Soma is good. Might throw you off that it is a horror game but it is still excellent in it's story. Metal Gear Solid 2 throws you something similar too.
"What do I do now?".
Great video
Excellent video about a excellent game! The sequel has just come out, are you going to do a review or analysis of it too?
A fucking masterpiece of the game! Thank you for this video, I appreciate the work put into the one.
Thanks! I appreciate you watching!
Great job mate
Thanks for watching!
-Tyler
Pretty neat stuff
Now the Talos 2 is available, I really wish to hear your thoughts and ideas of the sequel, especially the philosophical discussion that it brings. You have excellent ability to make arguments, and if you have time, I would love to know more about how you think after the game since the last question you proposed is now answered.
This game reminds me of the star trek tng episode the inner light, both are about assuring your legacy when you know you will die. They go about it different ways but the similarity of the interaction in both stories is, to put it like a Vulcan, fascinating
Hyped that Talos 2 is on the way. It'll be interesting to see where they go from here. Good thing those Serious Sam 4 testers enjoyed puzzles! 😤 Onward!
damn, what a good video! I absolutely loved your structure and your message. During my playthrough, while I do not remember the exact details of how it happened, I actually came to an agreement with Milton and struck a deal with him to take him with me to reality. After he had pointed out all the inconsistencies of my answers and my reasonings, I conceded that he was right in that there probably were no answers to any of the questions he posed. After that, we came on quite friendly terms and he wanted to come with me to the outside world to see it for himself. I find it very interesting that almost none of the people discussing the game seems to have gotten that outcome, and what that says about my interactions with him as compared to others. I wonder, do you have any thoughts on this? again, splendid analysis!
I too remember getting this connection with Milton. I first played this game back in late 2015, a mere five years ago, but at the time I was in my mid twenties and was in a process of mental change. How I viewed things just a year prior to that was starting to shift drastically (much different now of course) but I ended up allowing myself to be completely open to this game and it drew me in like very few games could. It is truly one of the best games I've ever played.
Great analysis of the game.
Thank you!
Amazing video!
Thanks! I appreciate it.
My favourite part was having it all come down to the end where you work together with shepherd.
best analysis
Awesome video! Just beat the game and loved it. Ima be subbing to you
Thanks for watching and thanks for the kind words!
0:34 Good ol' Chalmers. The guy who coined the phrase "the hard problem of consciousness."
Too bad they took this off of Game Pass a couple or so months ago. Was just getting into this when it got yanked and you're not going to find it at your local Wal-Mart on the clearance shelf. Believe they wanted $70.00 to own. Worth it completely, but im pretty sure it's only available on console at the time I checked. I could be wrong. Like nothing else I ever had the pleasure to experience albeit only for a couple weeks and on console. Great Post! I had even forgotten the name , but this video re - confirmed a search for this lost masterpiece.
I know a work of art when I see one
Just did my first playthrough - thoroughly enjoyed! This philosophy was also my own - the search for truth. It started as a search for understanding, but once Milton started asking these deeper questions, the subject matter around me had changed my perspective to one of searching for truth. At some point I realized that the world within the game was temporary. Nothing could be taken at face value; everything could be questioned. I even came to question if the end would be that there is nothing but me playing this as a game. None of the "glitches" were really glitches, and that could be true either of the game as a real game, or true in the sense that the glitches could even be programmed into the simulation on purpose.
So if nothing in the game could be true, there could be only one truth - only I existed; me, the player. That much I could be sure of. If nothing existed either within or outside of the simulation, then ascending the tower was a choice without consequence and could be done freely. If, however, there was a purpose to everything, then all other choices presented merely were continuations of a repetition of a cycle, and that cycle could be ended by forces from outside the simulation; even if it were just the forces of time and entropy, which meant that the only reasonable action to allow for the continuation of existence would be to ascend the tower. And even if doing so destroyed everything including myself, then doing so would still have been the completion of a purpose. If I could not ascend the tower, then the aiding of others in their attempt to complete that purpose was the right one.
In many ways, this story helped solidify why a nihilistic mindset can be freeing; in the absence of any true meaning, we are free to create meaning for ourselves.
What qualifies as a "purpose"?
What is "meaning"?
You have forgotten the fourth and most important voice: Alexandra, your actual creator. She made the simulation and thus you for a purpose. That robot at the end has a purpose whether you like it or not.
*MAJOR SPOILER* After the ascension ending it has been confirmed that the android goes directly on a journey to find a way to listen to music. It's canon that after finding a source of music, he proceeds to listen to Dicko Mode on repeat. It's a remix of the popular song sicko mode.
If you'd like to transcend like the android then you should follow in his footsteps and listen to Dicko Mode. For me personally, the instant I heard the following line in the song I had already ascended. Enjoy!
Jesus Christ, dicks over rice.
That's what I like, that's what we like.
This video was really interesting especially the part about the games message! I'd love to know if you've played NieR: Automata and what you think of it, as it's also an existentialist game. I love it's final message and how it's delivered.
I have played Nier: Automata, but I never beat it. I really enjoyed it while I was playing, though! Thematically it definitely shares some ground with the Talos Principle, especially when it comes to the androids' right to life and what not. I didn't get too far, so I can't talk to how the game evolves or how it ends. Might get back to it later on one day. Thanks for the kind words and thanks for watching!
I played both it and Replicant, and compared to Talos it's extremely shallow, surface-level, and egoistical. While Talos teaches how important it is to preserve something for those who come after you, Nier says that it's fine to sacrifice an entire species just so your own life will be fulfilling, with nothing left behind but death.
Thinking And Learning Of Self
Good video.
Try The Witness if you haven't already, personally I prefer it.
8:42 decoded hex: »THE ETERNAL GARDEN«
8:47 decoded hex »the unexamined life is not worth living«
There are similar hidden messages throughout the game.
Ruby one-liner used to decode:
def hex2a(a) a.split.each {|b| print b.to_i(16).chr}; puts; end; hex2a(%[74 68 65 20 75 6e 65 78 61 6d 69 6e 65 64 20 6c 69 66 65 20 69 73 20 6e 6f 74 20 77 6f 72 74 68 20 6c 69 76 69 6e 67])
That has given me opportunity to re-learn my hex-typing skills - left hand: a to f as well as Space key; right hand: number block.
Great video, love your game analyses. Cheers!
i think the purpose for elohim was to lead talos/soma unit to learn purely analitical skills. it was Milton task to create in talos unit doubt, thus creating real intelligence as Alexandra desribed
@ 19:15 I feel like the same question would be; If you could make a human with your hands, would it be any different than a human from birth. GREAT VIDEO!
As a puzzle game, Talos Principle is okay/meh (Stepehens Sausage Roll, Spacechem, English Country Tune, etc. are better). However, as a story, it's pretty good/makes you question some philosophical foundations about life, because there is a guy that prompts you questions like "What is consciousness" and tries to identify contradictions in your answers. If you're looking for a great puzzler and never played the games I mentioned before, check those out. If you are looking for an average puzzler with good/intriguing story, check out The Talos Principle.