The advantage of heavy rail driver vs light rail and tram driver. You don't have to deal with the racket pax can make, or at least not as much, at least as far as I know at a guess.
While in theory that is true, in fact in my 6 years of driving trams I don’t recall any occasions when riotous noise from the passengers was ever audible. People just weren’t that noisy, and if they were a little noisy enjoying the ride, that was just atmosphere.
Apparently the limits are because the Citadis trams have "tram" wheels (a tram wheel profile) while the CAF trams have "train" wheels (train wheel profile). I am not entirely sure what the difference is but I think it's that the train wheels have a larger flange and are therefore more stable at high speeds and through points. The difficulty with this is that it means when constructing tram tracks in the street they have to have deeper and wider groves (and I also think they can't go as fast on in street tram track). They could have built the Circular Quay and Eastern suburbs line to this standard but it would have cost more and probably left the trams running even slower. What it means is that the L2 and L3 trams can run on the L1 but not the other way around, and if they do operate they have to go slower though the points because the check rails are not in the right spot to ensure the trams won't derail. They are also limited to 50 because of the instability at high speeds. Although I won't be surprised if the Citadis trams can't even go faster than 50 because I don't think they ever have on the L2 and L3 lines.
The Government said they couldn't operate but this was probably Chinese whispers 7 people down the line that never heard that it can be done just not to the same standards as the CAF trams as the Citadis trams were always going to have heavy maintenance done at Lilyfield.
The outer 3 or 4 cm of both wheel types are much the same although it appears the Citadis have less taper on the wheel treads. After that, L1 wheels have a bulge maybe 2 cm thick which reduces the back to back measurement from one wheel across to its mate. This bulge makes contact with higher railway check rails at pointwork and these check rails are further away from the running rail leaving an overall wider flangeway. So to permit the George Street trams to run between Lilyfield and Dulwich Hill where point work was built to railway standards because originally good trains were expected to run here as well, these railway check rails were moved closer to the running rails. Whether the height of these check rails was reduced has proved difficult to observe but if not, CAF trams with their current wheels cannot use this section of track. At great expense, Sydney Tramway Museum has recently had part of that bulge removed on 2107 to make it compatible with museum trackwork. Sydney tramway check rails were also raised. As for the 50 km/h and other speed restriction for Citadis trams, initially the so-called experts for quite some time claimed that the George Street trams could not run on the line and some of us believe that this and other speed limits are no more than an attempt to save the faces of those who for months claimed the Citadis could not be used. As such, L1 trams could run anywhere on the L2/3 where there is overhead EXCEPT it seems that CAF are wider at platform height than Citadis. On the L1, the platform to floor gap is a bit wider than with CAFs but as drivers already used a portable ramp for wheelchairs on CAFs, there is no big dealing using the same ramps with Citadis.
Oh Dear! Sorry I fell short of perfection! Actually the L1 is difficult to video. Drivers are paranoid about the camera, L2/3, could not care less. Last visit I did inbound but with 2 drivers and somehow never covered a few stops in the middle so will try to do it all probably in February.
From memory, CAF came after Dulwich Hill opened. If so, your liking could only relate to their looks. Besides falling apart after a few years of use, the driver of this tram told me that they were rather rough riding. I think most crews and passengers hope they never come back.
15? Probably a timid decision by whoever decides speeds. It could well also be to suggest that original assertions that Citadis could not run on the line were justified (in their eyes anyway).
Great video, good to see they were able to fit the Citadis and resume services on L1! 80 km/h is quite fast for trams, I can't recall any section in Melbourne's network where trams can get to that speed. Is there any?
True, but in case you did not notice their speed limit is 50km/h. Whether this is for technical reasons or being used as a compromise by those who for months said the Citadis could not run on this line is unknown. There was only ever the short burst in the tunnel where 80 was permitted. As for Melbourne, when I was driving there, around 1992 all the modern trams were governed and lost power at around 65 km/h. Much the same today.
@@mr.jamster8414 A driver told me that sometimes the governor falls into disuse, so the occasional driver is lucky with a fast tram. Before governing and Southbank depot, I got a B up to 80 coming from the Port, approaching Port Junction (which I named, by the way 😊) After governing, power cut at 65 then when speed dropped below 60 you had to apply power again to get going.
@@tressteleg1 Speed limits are overused on railways IMO. Straight sections of new track like the skyrail shouldn't have any at all for example, just let the trains catch their top speed of 130. This one I saw definitely was going faster than 60, though.
Enjoyed the trip! Seems as though it is almost impossible to beat TT. Seems the times were constantly behind! How much leeway, time wise, do the drivers have?
By leeway I guess you mean recovery time until they have to start the return journey. Actually the timetable was quite erratic as sometimes he was more or less on time but a routine run to the next stop showed a minute or more late. Then maybe a sudden catch-up. Quite impossible. The line has always been plagued with erratic punctuality, but I have not had the time or inclination to check out whether recovery time is adequate, or whether drivers try to leave on time.
@@tressteleg1 I guess I was sort of asking the wrong way! I meant how late, or early, are they allowed to be without repercussion, for each one way trip!
I don’t know if the L1 is subject to fines or penalties linked to punctuality, but in Melbourne trams must not be more than 59 seconds early, or 4:59 late at several time points along the line. That’s probably more or less an industry standard.
When the George Street trams were ordered for Sydney, nobody in government had the brains to specify that the wheel shape should be the same as the L1 so there were minor differences. When the CAF trams started falling apart, there was great nervousness about trying to run George Street trams to Dulwich Hill. Some necessary changes were made to the point work, and maximum speeds were somewhat reduced as a precaution, possibly unnecessarily so. The L1 has never been a particularly fast line, and this nervousness, probably exaggerated, by the different wheeled shapes did nothing to help at all.
these are quite good trams it's a shame they aren't used to their full ability even though this is a fast line i see you said they aren't actually suited for the L1?
The drivers prefer Citadis trams to CAF trams as they ride better. The difficulty is that when the government ordered the trams for the George Street lines, they were too stupid to stipulate that wheel standards be identical for both lines so there is a small incompatibility there. Unfortunately the “children“ running the show have overreacted to this and reduced many speed limits. On a recent ride, I saw that trams have to reduce to 20 km/h before they reach the platform, very low speed limits through pointwork etc. More overreach by the “children“.
@@tressteleg1 oh wow that must suck but i am glad to hear that the CAF trams are favoured 🥰😅😂 whilst i do like the sound of the motors it is a bit slow
Sorry but it is the Citadis which is favoured. The CAFs toss the drivers around a lot more. Meanwhile I am now riding Gold Coast tram 10 as it races along at 70km/h 😀
@@tressteleg1 oh hahaha you got me there 😂😂😂 in that case then i like the motor of the Urbos 3 😁 and i see sounds like the Gold Coast Tram has a lot to its name 😊👀😳
For sounds, there was not much to match the Z1 and Z2 but they are all gone now. Brisbane’s first electrics were pretty good too. Almost all gone now. Well it is beautiful out here in the sun. If you have not tried the Gold Coast tram, you should do so some time. Oh well, back inside to the computer to finish of Melbourne’s tram 6 video…
That’s what is permitted, but obviously the driver did not think it worth the bother to race up to that speed for such a short distance and have to slam the brakes on some on soon after. My local Gold Coast line has some extended stretches of 70 including the Nerang River bridge and tracks on its south, and much of the run from Good Coast University Hospital and Helensvale rail station. That is 7km.
I'm a Kaohsiung Light Rail tram driver , it was the same car when I drove. One day I also want to go to Sydney for a ride. Here is our driver's View ruclips.net/video/Eui9HmQSkzs/видео.html
It is good to hear from you, as a tram driver. I drove in Melbourne 1988 to 1994. If you come as far as Sydney, you may as well visit Melbourne, and if you have time Adelaide and the Gold Coast where I live. I will comment again when I have watched your video. You will find my other Sydney videos amongst this group: Sydney Newcastle ACT Trams ruclips.net/p/PLLtOIHp49XNDTtuzoqr_AzFOMRjdC4qNc
thanks, I have subscribed to your channel,and I founded Sydney light rail have the same problem as Kaohsiung, like traffic lights not smooth so the trams must to be stop and our CAF trams also have same problem like Sydney.@@tressteleg1
@user-zr7cl2cl8z It seems that traffic light programmers, certainly outside Europe, hate the idea of delaying their wonderful road traffic to let a tram go through sooner, even if it is carrying a lot more people than all the cars they let through while it waits. I go to Sydney each summer, and since the George St lines opened in 2019 and 2022, bit by bit more intersections have received priority for trams (something which Melbourne has nowhere!) This video shows a typical ride last April. Driver's View Fastest run L2 Randwick to Circular Quay Sydney ruclips.net/video/sL0_TMl3960/видео.html I did not know that any of the CAF rubbish went to Japan. It really is a terrible company. Several years before the Sydney CAFs started falling apart, the problem had been revealed in Birmingham (England). Did they warn Sydney or do anything to stop a disaster? NO! And even after that, it was many months before repairmen were sent from Spain. CAF kept trying to blame the Sydney track for being in ‘poor condition’ and causing the broken trams. So what has Sydney done since then?? Ordered more CAF rubbish!
I finally got to watch your video. You have quite a nice line, and not particularly fast, like the Sydney L1. I noticed that at some crossing you had somebody to make sure the traffic stopped. In fact the traffic light priority looked quite OK except for one crossing near the start where it looks like the tram coming the other way ‘stole’ your T light and made you wait a few moments before the time came for the next T light. If you have not seen it before, here is a link to my most recent video of my local line which I usually use as a passenger every Monday and Friday. You will see a stretch of 70km/hour nearing and over the Nerang River bridge. Part 2 is mostly at that speed. Driver's Sunset View Gold Coast Tram Broadbeach South to Helensvale Part 1 to Southport ruclips.net/video/qh6Dasv4vpY/видео.html
I also look your video , the Gold Coast tram have a high efficiency operation running speed , nice change to T lights , and the depot point junction , not like Sydney and Kaohsiung , I’m so envious 🤣.@@tressteleg1
What a bucket of bolts those Citadis trams are, only two years old and it squeaks and groans. Would drive me crazy having to listen to that for 8 odd hours per shift as a driver. Time for the scrapheap and get some decent kit instead of this rubbish. And what is it with the 15 kmh over points and the general slowness of the service, would slash the travel time with dumping the 50 kmh limit and allowing 70 or 80 kmh on many sections of the track, but hey, it's Sydney and everything is slow there.
I think you have come into the story rather late. These Citadis were never intended to run on this line. (If government officials ordering the George St trams had any brains, they would have stipulated identical specifications as existed on the L1). But the problem was the Spanish CAF trams on the L1 were literally falling to pieces after about 13 years of service due to poor design. So these Citadis had to be borrowed from L2 and L3. Those government ‘experts’ for months claimed they could not run on the L1 but eventually tests were carried out, and with some pointwork modifications, they ran OK. I suspect that to save face over their previous stance that the trams were incompatible, silly speed limits were introduced. Nevertheless these trams are 1000 times better than the replacement buses which have no parallel streets to run on. And the driver of this tram told me the Citadis give a much more comfortable ride than the CAFs which apparently nobody wants back. As for creaks and groans, these are usually the result of shoddy maintenance. As for buying better, since Citadis bought out Bombardier last year, they have no opposition.
@@tressteleg1 realise that the Citadis trams were rostered on the L1 to replace the CAF sets, but my comment was mainly pointing out the annoying groans eminating from these trams..Was in Sydney last year and even the third rail pickups were annoying as they clunked along, with the groaning, it was an enjoyable ride, not!!! Really with strides in technology, that should not be happening.
@@tressteleg1 although Alstom did buy out Bombardier, they’re still offering some of Bombardier’s rolling stock for sale, such as the Flexity line of LRVs & trams and the Innovia line of APMs. For example, the new G-class trams in Melbourne are built on the Flexity 2 platform, and although they’re now sold under Alstom’s name, they still use Bombardier’s design.
The big question is whether Bombardier quality will remain, and how long until those products are quietly allowed to be forgotten. It will be interesting to see what Sydney does long term for the L1. Overseas indications are that CAF patch-ups to date have not lasted very long. And of course more CAFs are to be used at Parramatta. Sydney is probably lucky that the Lord Mayor demanded wire-free as CAF had nothing good enough, so Citadis APS won the day. As for the G class, at least off-peak quite a few lines could be handled by trams the size of a minibus.
The advantage of heavy rail driver vs light rail and tram driver. You don't have to deal with the racket pax can make, or at least not as much, at least as far as I know at a guess.
While in theory that is true, in fact in my 6 years of driving trams I don’t recall any occasions when riotous noise from the passengers was ever audible. People just weren’t that noisy, and if they were a little noisy enjoying the ride, that was just atmosphere.
Apparently the limits are because the Citadis trams have "tram" wheels (a tram wheel profile) while the CAF trams have "train" wheels (train wheel profile). I am not entirely sure what the difference is but I think it's that the train wheels have a larger flange and are therefore more stable at high speeds and through points. The difficulty with this is that it means when constructing tram tracks in the street they have to have deeper and wider groves (and I also think they can't go as fast on in street tram track). They could have built the Circular Quay and Eastern suburbs line to this standard but it would have cost more and probably left the trams running even slower.
What it means is that the L2 and L3 trams can run on the L1 but not the other way around, and if they do operate they have to go slower though the points because the check rails are not in the right spot to ensure the trams won't derail. They are also limited to 50 because of the instability at high speeds. Although I won't be surprised if the Citadis trams can't even go faster than 50 because I don't think they ever have on the L2 and L3 lines.
The Government said they couldn't operate but this was probably Chinese whispers 7 people down the line that never heard that it can be done just not to the same standards as the CAF trams as the Citadis trams were always going to have heavy maintenance done at Lilyfield.
The outer 3 or 4 cm of both wheel types are much the same although it appears the Citadis have less taper on the wheel treads.
After that, L1 wheels have a bulge maybe 2 cm thick which reduces the back to back measurement from one wheel across to its mate. This bulge makes contact with higher railway check rails at pointwork and these check rails are further away from the running rail leaving an overall wider flangeway.
So to permit the George Street trams to run between Lilyfield and Dulwich Hill where point work was built to railway standards because originally good trains were expected to run here as well, these railway check rails were moved closer to the running rails. Whether the height of these check rails was reduced has proved difficult to observe but if not, CAF trams with their current wheels cannot use this section of track.
At great expense, Sydney Tramway Museum has recently had part of that bulge removed on 2107 to make it compatible with museum trackwork. Sydney tramway check rails were also raised.
As for the 50 km/h and other speed restriction for Citadis trams, initially the so-called experts for quite some time claimed that the George Street trams could not run on the line and some of us believe that this and other speed limits are no more than an attempt to save the faces of those who for months claimed the Citadis could not be used.
As such, L1 trams could run anywhere on the L2/3 where there is overhead EXCEPT it seems that CAF are wider at platform height than Citadis.
On the L1, the platform to floor gap is a bit wider than with CAFs but as drivers already used a portable ramp for wheelchairs on CAFs, there is no big dealing using the same ramps with Citadis.
Thanks for a near perfect vid'. Cheers. Like the way it ended. Nice touch.
Oh Dear! Sorry I fell short of perfection! Actually the L1 is difficult to video. Drivers are paranoid about the camera, L2/3, could not care less. Last visit I did inbound but with 2 drivers and somehow never covered a few stops in the middle so will try to do it all probably in February.
great video
Thanks Richard. The last time I was on that line I could only travel to Lilyfield as that was the terminus. I did like the CAF units though.
From memory, CAF came after Dulwich Hill opened. If so, your liking could only relate to their looks. Besides falling apart after a few years of use, the driver of this tram told me that they were rather rough riding. I think most crews and passengers hope they never come back.
@@tressteleg1 The end of the line was definitely Lilyfield at the time of my trip late 98 and it was a CAF.
@@firstfreeone Yes, CAF and the Dulwich Hill extension were around the same time. I’m not sure if any Variotrams ever got to DH.
Thanks for posting this one - great to see the old goods line given a new lease of life. Any reason there’s a 15kmh TSR on the pointwork?
15? Probably a timid decision by whoever decides speeds. It could well also be to suggest that original assertions that Citadis could not run on the line were justified (in their eyes anyway).
@@tressteleg1 I was going to add that the units weren’t suitable - but you said it for me!😀
😊👍
Great video, good to see they were able to fit the Citadis and resume services on L1! 80 km/h is quite fast for trams, I can't recall any section in Melbourne's network where trams can get to that speed. Is there any?
True, but in case you did not notice their speed limit is 50km/h. Whether this is for technical reasons or being used as a compromise by those who for months said the Citadis could not run on this line is unknown. There was only ever the short burst in the tunnel where 80 was permitted.
As for Melbourne, when I was driving there, around 1992 all the modern trams were governed and lost power at around 65 km/h. Much the same today.
Believe they do at the light rail section of 86. Thing was outdriving our car, granted we weren't in a hurry.
@@mr.jamster8414 A driver told me that sometimes the governor falls into disuse, so the occasional driver is lucky with a fast tram. Before governing and Southbank depot, I got a B up to 80 coming from the Port, approaching Port Junction (which I named, by the way 😊)
After governing, power cut at 65 then when speed dropped below 60 you had to apply power again to get going.
@@tressteleg1 Speed limits are overused on railways IMO. Straight sections of new track like the skyrail shouldn't have any at all for example, just let the trains catch their top speed of 130. This one I saw definitely was going faster than 60, though.
I suspect that too many train and tram speed limit setters have never driven those vehicles, there or anywhere else.
Enjoyed the trip! Seems as though it is almost impossible to beat TT. Seems the times were constantly behind! How much leeway, time wise, do the drivers have?
By leeway I guess you mean recovery time until they have to start the return journey. Actually the timetable was quite erratic as sometimes he was more or less on time but a routine run to the next stop showed a minute or more late. Then maybe a sudden catch-up. Quite impossible. The line has always been plagued with erratic punctuality, but I have not had the time or inclination to check out whether recovery time is adequate, or whether drivers try to leave on time.
@@tressteleg1 I guess I was sort of asking the wrong way! I meant how late, or early, are they allowed to be without repercussion, for each one way trip!
I don’t know if the L1 is subject to fines or penalties linked to punctuality, but in Melbourne trams must not be more than 59 seconds early, or 4:59 late at several time points along the line. That’s probably more or less an industry standard.
@@tressteleg1 Thanks. I think that answered my question!!
Nice ride. Wish the talkative pax were quieter. Many of our commuter rail lines have quiet cars.
Thank you.😀😀💚💚
Yes Queensland trains, and I think New South Wales, have quiet carriages but this never applies to trams.
@@tressteleg1 Thank you. Our trams/trolleys/subways/buses are NOT quiet. The din can be loud occasionally.
What do you expect from hormonal teenage boys with access to TikTok?
@@michaelhatton2477 They we’re a girl and boy aged maybe 14 or 15. Not much I could do about the noise but did hint about it.
@@michaelhatton2477 It's to be expected now days. I rode streetcars to/from high school and was quiet and respectful.
I had to flip the channel. I was becoming psychotic with the continuously moving left thumb.
Why did the driver go so slow, even in the sections without any TSL?
When the George Street trams were ordered for Sydney, nobody in government had the brains to specify that the wheel shape should be the same as the L1 so there were minor differences. When the CAF trams started falling apart, there was great nervousness about trying to run George Street trams to Dulwich Hill. Some necessary changes were made to the point work, and maximum speeds were somewhat reduced as a precaution, possibly unnecessarily so. The L1 has never been a particularly fast line, and this nervousness, probably exaggerated, by the different wheeled shapes did nothing to help at all.
these are quite good trams it's a shame they aren't used to their full ability even though this is a fast line i see you said they aren't actually suited for the L1?
The drivers prefer Citadis trams to CAF trams as they ride better. The difficulty is that when the government ordered the trams for the George Street lines, they were too stupid to stipulate that wheel standards be identical for both lines so there is a small incompatibility there. Unfortunately the “children“ running the show have overreacted to this and reduced many speed limits. On a recent ride, I saw that trams have to reduce to 20 km/h before they reach the platform, very low speed limits through pointwork etc. More overreach by the “children“.
@@tressteleg1 oh wow that must suck but i am glad to hear that the CAF trams are favoured 🥰😅😂 whilst i do like the sound of the motors it is a bit slow
Sorry but it is the Citadis which is favoured. The CAFs toss the drivers around a lot more. Meanwhile I am now riding Gold Coast tram 10 as it races along at 70km/h 😀
@@tressteleg1 oh hahaha you got me there 😂😂😂 in that case then i like the motor of the Urbos 3 😁 and i see sounds like the Gold Coast Tram has a lot to its name 😊👀😳
For sounds, there was not much to match the Z1 and Z2 but they are all gone now. Brisbane’s first electrics were pretty good too. Almost all gone now. Well it is beautiful out here in the sun. If you have not tried the Gold Coast tram, you should do so some time.
Oh well, back inside to the computer to finish of Melbourne’s tram 6 video…
18:56 70 speed limit???
That’s what is permitted, but obviously the driver did not think it worth the bother to race up to that speed for such a short distance and have to slam the brakes on some on soon after. My local Gold Coast line has some extended stretches of 70 including the Nerang River bridge and tracks on its south, and much of the run from Good Coast University Hospital and Helensvale rail station. That is 7km.
Who is that degenerate scrolling through tiktok on full volume? And why weren't they punched in the face?? Otherwise, great video!
2 high school kids going home early. Stir them up, they are likely to get worse. There often seems to be some noisy pest nearby while I’m recording.
Ikr lil kids. Tryna be cool meanwhile being embarrassing 😂
I'm a Kaohsiung Light Rail tram driver , it was the same car when I drove.
One day I also want to go to Sydney for a ride.
Here is our driver's View ruclips.net/video/Eui9HmQSkzs/видео.html
It is good to hear from you, as a tram driver. I drove in Melbourne 1988 to 1994. If you come as far as Sydney, you may as well visit Melbourne, and if you have time Adelaide and the Gold Coast where I live. I will comment again when I have watched your video. You will find my other Sydney videos amongst this group: Sydney Newcastle ACT Trams
ruclips.net/p/PLLtOIHp49XNDTtuzoqr_AzFOMRjdC4qNc
thanks, I have subscribed to your channel,and I founded Sydney light rail have the same problem as Kaohsiung, like traffic lights not smooth so the trams must to be stop and our CAF trams also have same problem like Sydney.@@tressteleg1
@user-zr7cl2cl8z It seems that traffic light programmers, certainly outside Europe, hate the idea of delaying their wonderful road traffic to let a tram go through sooner, even if it is carrying a lot more people than all the cars they let through while it waits. I go to Sydney each summer, and since the George St lines opened in 2019 and 2022, bit by bit more intersections have received priority for trams (something which Melbourne has nowhere!) This video shows a typical ride last April. Driver's View Fastest run L2 Randwick to Circular Quay Sydney
ruclips.net/video/sL0_TMl3960/видео.html
I did not know that any of the CAF rubbish went to Japan. It really is a terrible company. Several years before the Sydney CAFs started falling apart, the problem had been revealed in Birmingham (England). Did they warn Sydney or do anything to stop a disaster? NO! And even after that, it was many months before repairmen were sent from Spain. CAF kept trying to blame the Sydney track for being in ‘poor condition’ and causing the broken trams. So what has Sydney done since then?? Ordered more CAF rubbish!
I finally got to watch your video. You have quite a nice line, and not particularly fast, like the Sydney L1. I noticed that at some crossing you had somebody to make sure the traffic stopped. In fact the traffic light priority looked quite OK except for one crossing near the start where it looks like the tram coming the other way ‘stole’ your T light and made you wait a few moments before the time came for the next T light. If you have not seen it before, here is a link to my most recent video of my local line which I usually use as a passenger every Monday and Friday.
You will see a stretch of 70km/hour nearing and over the Nerang River bridge. Part 2 is mostly at that speed. Driver's Sunset View Gold Coast Tram Broadbeach South to Helensvale Part 1 to Southport
ruclips.net/video/qh6Dasv4vpY/видео.html
I also look your video , the Gold Coast tram have a high efficiency operation running speed , nice change to T lights , and the depot point junction , not like Sydney and Kaohsiung , I’m so envious 🤣.@@tressteleg1
What a bucket of bolts those Citadis trams are, only two years old and it squeaks and groans. Would drive me crazy having to listen to that for 8 odd hours per shift as a driver. Time for the scrapheap and get some decent kit instead of this rubbish. And what is it with the 15 kmh over points and the general slowness of the service, would slash the travel time with dumping the 50 kmh limit and allowing 70 or 80 kmh on many sections of the track, but hey, it's Sydney and everything is slow there.
I think you have come into the story rather late. These Citadis were never intended to run on this line. (If government officials ordering the George St trams had any brains, they would have stipulated identical specifications as existed on the L1). But the problem was the Spanish CAF trams on the L1 were literally falling to pieces after about 13 years of service due to poor design. So these Citadis had to be borrowed from L2 and L3. Those government ‘experts’ for months claimed they could not run on the L1 but eventually tests were carried out, and with some pointwork modifications, they ran OK. I suspect that to save face over their previous stance that the trams were incompatible, silly speed limits were introduced. Nevertheless these trams are 1000 times better than the replacement buses which have no parallel streets to run on. And the driver of this tram told me the Citadis give a much more comfortable ride than the CAFs which apparently nobody wants back.
As for creaks and groans, these are usually the result of shoddy maintenance.
As for buying better, since Citadis bought out Bombardier last year, they have no opposition.
@@tressteleg1 realise that the Citadis trams were rostered on the L1 to replace the CAF sets, but my comment was mainly pointing out the annoying groans eminating from these trams..Was in Sydney last year and even the third rail pickups were annoying as they clunked along, with the groaning, it was an enjoyable ride, not!!! Really with strides in technology, that should not be happening.
@@tressteleg1 although Alstom did buy out Bombardier, they’re still offering some of Bombardier’s rolling stock for sale, such as the Flexity line of LRVs & trams and the Innovia line of APMs. For example, the new G-class trams in Melbourne are built on the Flexity 2 platform, and although they’re now sold under Alstom’s name, they still use Bombardier’s design.
The big question is whether Bombardier quality will remain, and how long until those products are quietly allowed to be forgotten. It will be interesting to see what Sydney does long term for the L1. Overseas indications are that CAF patch-ups to date have not lasted very long. And of course more CAFs are to be used at Parramatta. Sydney is probably lucky that the Lord Mayor demanded wire-free as CAF had nothing good enough, so Citadis APS won the day.
As for the G class, at least off-peak quite a few lines could be handled by trams the size of a minibus.