Rabbi Ammiel Hirsch and the Anti-Zionist Crisis Facing Reform Judaism
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- Опубликовано: 21 сен 2024
- This series is sponsored by Joel and Lynn Mael in memory of Estelle and Nysen Mael.
In this special video episode of the 18Forty Podcast, we follow up on our recent conversation on Jewish Peoplehood in America’s Jewish movements.
That podcast was recorded prior to Oct. 7, and, though Rabbi Hirsch’s previous comments remain relevant, we thought that discussion deserved an addendum. In this episode we discuss:
-What is the role of Jewish Peoplehood in our universalistic work and concerns?
-Why do many younger Jews have a different understanding of Israel than previous generations?
-What can movements do to strengthen Jewish identity?
Tune in to hear a conversation about the past, present, and future of American Jewry.
Rabbi Ammiel Hirsch is a leader of the Reform Movement. He is the senior rabbi of Stephen Wise Free Synagogue and former executive director of the Association of Reform Zionists of America/World Union for Progressive Judaism, North America. He wrote two books: The Lilac Tree: A Rabbi’s Reflections on Love, Courage, and History (2023) and One People, Two Worlds: A Reform Rabbi and an Orthodox Rabbi Explore the Issues That Divide Them (2003), which he co-authored with Rabbi Yaakov Yosef Reinman.
References:
Leviticus 19:17
Genesis 12:3
Amos 9
The War of Return by Adi Schwartz and Einat Wilf
Jewish Wisdom by Joseph Telushkin
The Book of Jewish Values by Joseph Telushkin
![Marc B. Shapiro: Where Does Orthodox Judaism Come From? [Denominations 4/5]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/vbM3wn9iT9I/mqdefault.jpg)
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Great podcast I applaud R Hirsch for his introspection. A good friend of mine is an associate rabbi at a prominent San Francisco Reform congregation would never admit the shortcomings of the Reform movement. Brave, strong and clear. Great interview
Humanistic Jews as well.
Decades of no persecution of Diaspora Jews is a major factor in this issue. Persecution fosters an anguished curiosity about History. When life is easy, ain’t nobody gottime to study History. So, If Zeydee understands the need for an Israel where Jews have a government. Zeydee’s kids and grandkids do not. Today’s hatred for Jews may raise the awareness that Zionism is about the desperately needed power to maintain a protective shield on a thriving nation in their historic homeland. This may be the only positive result of today’s hatred for Jews in the west.
I have not listened to the entire podcast at this moment. Nonetheless, I have some thoughts. I hear a lot of sociological analysis from Rabbi Hirsch. I know that 75% of US Jews voted Democrat in the last few elections. What I don't see or hear from the Reform Movement is discussion of Torah or belief in G-d. I can go to the Chabad web cite anytime and hear discussions about G-d and Torah. I can't recall anyone saying 'Democrat platform' at Chabad. And there is your answer. If a Jew does not immerse themselves to some degree in Torah and G-d, it is fair to argue that they are no longer Jewish. Communists and socialists are well known to disbelieve in G-d (many Jews subscribe to communist and socialist ideas), which makes it very easy to become antisemitic. If there is no G-d, does Judaism make sense? I think the 2024 Presidential election will be landmark. If Biden is to win, he will need at least 70% of the Jewish vote. If Jews in America continue to support Democrat Party policies, which clearly disparage Israel, America is screwed and we will get punishment what we deserve.
You are 100% correct. It has always bothered me that Jews who don't even follow Torah & G-d are usually the communist and socialist that have a history of destroying countries that result in millions dying. Communism is a sin. Reform Jews preach Democrat talking points and use Torah as an excuse to be liberal activist. Just like in the Russian revolution communist Jews helped destroy Judaism and sent many religious Jews to the gulag. Democrat socialist atheist Jews will vote for Biden no question about that.
America has challenges either way- so too do American Jews. The political party doesn’t matter.
@@barryklarman2720 Totally disagree. Trump was tightening up security at our southern border. Biden totally reversed all the progress we had made in reducing illegal immigration. At least 20 million illegal aliens have entered our country about whom we know nothing. That has to be a problem. 10 years ago it would have been unthinkable to see antisemitic protests at our major universities and even on the streets of New York. Leftists and Islamists are increasing in our country and it is because of Democrat Party policy. Michigan now is an Islamic swing state. The Democrats just let Islamists into the country, but they come from anti-Israel countries. It is insane to allow our enemies to enter and set up shop. They will kill us.
Thank you Ronald - point by point. At about 30:00 for perhaps 2 minutes the chasm appears. The chasm expands marginally after that. We could call that chasm 'the fault line' - pun on 'fault' as "What did we do wrong" IS the right question but skipping over 'the fault line' is a repetition of the 'wrong'. And... I am so IMMENSELY thankful for THIS duet's conversation - and your Comment and thoughts.
Serious question: Is he unaware of how successful Modern Orthodox schools have been at preparing their graduates for success at elite colleges? It seems like there is an a priori disdain for Jewish day schools rather than a real curiosity about how to make Reform Jewish dayschools work.
This guy says he wanted the reform youth to care about human values but clearly the exception is when it comes to Israel-Palestine. So are you implying that on all the other issues that your youth care about that those views have been correct and fine but on Israel they are completely wrong? Just this one issue. Because it doesnt seem like you are bringing up any other issue where they are incorrect or so misinformed.
Statistics tell you more about trends. Per Pew, in the above 65 age group the Orthodox constitute only about 4% of affiliated Jews. In the 29 and below age bracket, it’s over 31%. The birth rate among the Reform and Conservative is appallingly low - .3 to .5.
I was interested in reference to Jewish peoplehood to hear that at one point some considered it a “vestige of the past”. I have a Christian background and live in Australia - not a great vantage point for understanding Jewish issues. But what has become apparent in my church circles post October 7 is that many seem to think G-d is a vestige of the past! G-d’s promises are therefore easy to disregard, including by our clergy. History tells us that it is no easy task to be a light to the nations, and I am deeply, deeply grateful for millennia of Jewish faithfulness and am humbly aware of its immense cost. Please keep up your efforts. The whole world depends on it. 😮
You don’t need to believe on G-D or even observe religiously to be Jewish. Many Jews don’t believe I a G-D. There is still a civilization and peoplehood component and for those with a connection to both there is a connection to the Land of Israel. The State of Israel is still important to various degrees based on lots of factors. Religiosity is but one and for some is a reason for being anti-Zionist.
So the only way for American jews to be together and have continuity is for the state of Israel to exist? Then how did Judaism survive for thousands of years prior to 1948?
They didn't live in the USA, for one thing.
They lived in separate communities and at the end 6 million were killed
@@bluebee5266 good answer!
Torah literally warns against offshoots of religion. Yet for some reason these believers couldn't be brave enough to go full atheist? Why not?
Either Torah is word of G-d or it's not. There is no in-between, offshoot, relaxed version of that idea that's acceptable. Right?
Humanistic Judaism
Thank you for sharing this!!
You know I think that growing up in a Jewish community.
I think that the center should be from the synagogue/Temples. I think that that was the problem from my childhood.
In addition to that problem about 20 years ago the Orthodox community and Bibi Netanyahu allied themselves with the Christian right and they basically abandoned their secular non-orthodox Jewish brothers and sisters. The Jewish World got divided politically and in all other ways. Those kids got abandoned by Bibi Netanyahu in all the Orthodox rabbis who said that you know what you know non-orthodox Jews are not Jewish time and time again I've heard that that is just breaking us apart.
Totally agree 💯
Have you thought about actually having anti-Zionist Jews on your program to answer your questions, and explain how they relate to terms like "Ahavat Yisrael" and "Kol Yisrael Areivin Zeh BaZeh" instead of merely inviting rabbis to critique these Jews?
None of them would understand those concepts .
@@lsblatt1 Interesting. I'm an anti-Zionist Jew, and I understand both concepts.
@@Yanagirl2011❤💯
This is what Anti-Zionism stands for. If you stand for the below, nobody is interested in your warped position.
In the days following Hamas’s October 7, 2023, invasion of Israel, the national leadership of Students for Justice in Palestine (SJP) and many of the organization’s campus chapters explicitly endorsed the actions of Hamas and their armed attacks on Israeli civilians and voiced an increasingly radical call for confronting and “dismantling” Zionism on U.S. college campuses. Some SJP chapters issued pro-Hamas messaging and/or promoted violent anti-Israel messaging channels.
Thats an oxymoron.
With all due respect you should not give this man legitimacy by interviewing him has nothing to do with the term 'Rabbi'
See tshuva of R' Moshe
Why is it a flaw to be anti-zionist? When was anti-zionism decided to be a flaw in character?
It depends what you are referring to with the term. There are anti-zionists who are essentially anti-semites, and there are some that want a 100% secular state, and there are some that want a 100% religious state. In the context of post October 7th, anti-zionists tend to be loud and full of misinformation/lies and have recently hopped on the bandwagon based on social media propaganda, etc. The flaw, imho, lies therein.
A related idea is that anti-zionism depends on what you mean by zionism. If zionism is the belief that Jews have a home in land of Israel (Jerusalem, Judea, Galilee, etc. etc.) then the state and its policies are sort of secondary to that; being anti-zionist is closer to being anti-Jewish self determination. If you identify zionism is 100% a political movement then you would associate it with the state itself and thus being 'anti-zionist' would be the primary thing you are against.
Hope this helps, just some thoughts on it.
Agree. Anti-Zionism is a legitimate position
This is what the people in this episode think of when they of the Anti-Zionism position.
In the days following Hamas’s October 7, 2023, invasion of Israel, the national leadership of Students for Justice in Palestine (SJP) and many of the organization’s campus chapters explicitly endorsed the actions of Hamas and their armed attacks on Israeli civilians and voiced an increasingly radical call for confronting and “dismantling” Zionism on U.S. college campuses. Some SJP chapters issued pro-Hamas messaging and/or promoted violent anti-Israel messaging channels.
This is a very flawed and ugly position.
Not in real life. In phantasy land, or in a theology discussion
@@Cleekschrey
If you’re even Jewish you wouldn’t be asking yourself that
This whole argument is so ridiculous. Just come out and say it, that you think one can only be a real Jew if you blindly support Israel. Instead of doing one hour of pretzel twisting
You're awareness is stunted. Judaism is about G-d and Jews are about Israel. G-d instructed the Hebrews to cross the Jordan River and settle Israel. Everyone is free to dispute my assertions, but I don't think it is possible to disagree with them and in the same breathe say you are NOT antisemitic.
@@ronaldshiffman9171 that would refer to an ethnic group of Israelites. There was no such things as modern day nation states thousands of years ago. Jews who now want to live in that region should be considered ethnic Israelites who would be allowed to live within a secular Palestine. Israeli-Palestinian
@@jaredgreenspan2263 Have you read the Tanach? The Hebrews were slaves in Egypt. Moses lead them out of Egypt to Israel with the help of G-d. Joshua lead the Hebrews across the Jordan into Israel. These are facts, backed up by archeology. You have a hang up. You don't have to support Israel. We live in a free country. Nonetheless, Israel is the nation of Jewish people. People who disparage Israel disparage Jews.
@@ronaldshiffman9171Zionism is not Judaism.
@@jaredgreenspan2263 Dude, you are just making stuff up. Jews are descendants of Abram, Sarah, Isaac, Rebecca, and Jacob, Rachel. Jews received the Torah at Mt. Sinai and the next generation of Jews settled inside of Israel. Almost all of the Jewish population of Israel was expelled by the Romans. Over time, Jews began to return to live in the Holy Land, propelled in the early 1900s by the philosophy of Zionism. Don't be stupid. Jews were severely persecuted in Europe. The Zionist philosophy said the only said place is Israel. Jews do not have to migrate to Israel if they don't want to be 'Zionist'. But the fact remains that the safest country for Jews at this time in history is Israel. G-d bless Israel.
FFB advocating for Fri Nite Live services. Families in seats.
Maybe they should consider taking a less offensive approach the world. The problem IS Zionism itself.
You are THE Problem not Zionism
The problem is the Palestinian ideology. Why wouldn't you see their claim to the land of Israel offensive?
@@bluebee5266Segregation, occupation and apartheid in a brutal prison village called Palestine is the problem.
Shtat Isroil and Shtat Palestine help 🕋💐🙏🕋🕋🕋🙏🌈🌈🌈🌈🌟🌈🌈🌟💖💐🌈🌟🌟🌈🙏🙏🙏🌟🙏🙏🙏🌟🙏🙏🙏🙏
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