I was wrong about upgrading guitar speakers...
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- Опубликовано: 3 окт 2024
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People: 4x12's are heavy
Kyle: Get strong
I don’t play vintage Peavey because they’re good, I play them because they’re heavy. Physically heavy
totally based.
If you want the gods to notice you, you should already be lifting weights.
🤘
Me: Damn I don't think I'll ever own a big cab. That shit is a hassle
Also me: *buys an Orange 412 coz it sounded rad*
Got a 4x12 Acoustic brand cab with 70/80s for $100. Sold those speakers for 25 bucks a pop, so I got the cab for free. Then in time got 2 UK Greenbacks and 2 Eminence Governors, for about $350 total. Just got to be patient :). Kyle as a point, though. Reasale value of the whole package ain't great, I'd have to part it to get my money back.
I did similar with an Acoustic 4x10 bass cab. The speakers in them are not good but the cabinet is solid ply and built well. I disconnected the horn and slapped a couple Eminence Legend BP102 speakers in it (two of them were about $230). I will throw two more in it when the other two stock speakers get blown out. I will never recover my money from it but I will get a lot of use out of it.
That was a point he made in the original video. If you try to sell that Acoustic cab with Greenbacks and Governors, you are unlikely to get as much as you would by selling the speakers individually or in pairs.
Swapped the speakers out of my Orange PPC212 because I don't like V30s but like the cab. Couldn't be happier.
What was your choice for the new speakers?
@@ChristopherOrz 1 Swamp Thang, and 1 Fane F70. Love how the cab sounds. Thinking of pulling the ST and replacing it with a second F70 because it’s my favorite speaker and would like a pure F70 tone.
Try a Celestion Alnico Cream. I use one with an F70 in a 2x12@@Eliphas_Elric
@@JInfinity7 I’ll keep that in mind since I was already eyeballing the H75 creamback.
@@Eliphas_Elric must be the Alnico to get the tone I'm referencing. Speaker is pricey, but really worth it
My dude roasted the haters in a way that makes RUclips a better place. Cheers!
When I got my Engl head, I was researching a lot about cabinets.
I was contemplating getting one of those Marshall MX cabs, and maybe swapping out the speakers, but I read on a several forums a lot of hate for, not so much the speakers, but the cabinet itself.
So in the end I went with a higher end Marshall 2X12 cab with T75's,
and I love it! and since I'm in Europe, it only cost me about 500$.
Gigging around here in Sweden, there's always been some kind of backline at the venue.
Either a miked up combo amp, or a half stack.
A few times there would only be a cabinet on stage, and you had to bring your own head,
but everything would always be miked up.
The only times I'd have to to bring my entire rig, would be when playing private parties and such with my cover band, and then there would be literally nothing on stage, so we have to bring our own PA as well.
Never apologize when you're right.
Your previous video was completely clear.
Don't take anyone's crap 💩💪
Love your channel 🤘🤘🤘
Bro I found the deal of the century a couple years ago. Bought a vintage late 80’s early 90s vertical Mesa Boogie 2x12 cab still stock with Black Shadows almost mint condition for $250!! Gotta love FB Marketplace
The Mesa Cab with the metal grate for speaker covers.
I did similar. Bought 2. One with black shadow Celestions and on with black shadow EV. One for 300 and one for 350. Both great cabs. Eventually sold them to fund buying some vintage 4x12 cabs
Those Cabs are so cool Mesa should put the metal grill and old Boogie logo on the oversized recto cabs or at least offer it as an option on custom cabs if they’re still doing custom builds. Those of us who got into music and gear around the late 80s and early 90s will always imagine Metallica’s stage on the Binge and Purge videos with those metal grilled Boogie cabs, there’s not a cooler looking cab than those old Mesas, ADA had really cool looking cabs too .
Should you upgrade the speakers in your cheap cab?
Depends on how cheap you can get the speakers. It's usually cheaper to buy a better used cabinet.
Congrats on 40K!
Love Eminence Speakers. So many great models.
I never got that, your videos have been very useful. I have gotten a lot of useful information on this channel. Carry on.
I know you are entirely joking at 11 mins in, and I would’ve agreed with you until May of last year. I got a spinal injury at work lifting something too heavy and now I’m permanently injured. I’m worried about carrying my mesa 4x12 around when carrying an ampeg 8x10 up the Fletcher’s staircase wasn’t a problem for me in my 20’s lol.
In my experience if you want a cheap 412 cab that’s gonna sound good with some good speakers you wanna find one that’s a good size. Marshall MG, Valvestate cabs are typically smaller than a 1960 cab.so they’re not gonna have the low end response a 1960 cab has. Find out what cab you wish you had the money for, then try to find one that’s about the same size, front loaded and rear loaded is important too.
I like the Peavey 412ms cab. Some people are giving them away and some already have G12-K85 speakers in them which sound brutal!
Good points Kyle... Personally, I'm an idiot gear hoarder, and love tinkering with stuff. So with the resolution that I'll likely never sell off most of the junk I collect, I've enjoyed the opportunity to try out various speaker combos in a couple of really well built 4x12s I have, and am really happy with the end results... there's the eal danger of basically dumping a pile of cash out of the ground and setting it on fire, but being a metal head, I enjoy a good fire. I like putting together combos that simply don't exist, and it's a lot of fun, and have gotten some great results, but it's really not for the faint of heart, of the bottom dollar guy, and you need to be objective as the result may not be all you dreamed it would be. Anyways, the combos I've put together that I really like are a pair of Swamp Thangs with a pair of Man-o-Wars, and a pair of DV77s with a pair of Governors. Both cabs are oversized and heavy built. I also did a 2x12 with a DV77 and a Swamp Thang in an oversized cab (my favorite actually) ... Do great speakers make a huge difference? Yes! Will it be everything you want? Maybe... will you light a pile of cash on fire to find out? Most likely... Trying to just be cheap will probably yield mixed results as well, so choose your adventure. Thanks Kyle for sharing all your gear with us, as a belligerent amateur myself, I thoroughly enjoy it!
Lots of great cabinets that are well built on the market for 100-150 dollars that may be worth a used speaker swap. Pick up a Crate Blue Voodoo cab or a Fender HM 4x12 and you have a nice cabinet made of 3/4" Baltic birch with great dimensions for cheap. Even if it costs you 450 or so for a quad of used Celestions and now you have built an amazing custom outfitted cab for 600 or less. I built a Fender cab like that one time with Celestion G12-H100s and Mesa Celestion C90s as the speaker combo for 550 dollars. It was the best cabinet for metal I have ever heard. Worth every penny and minute of my time.
Man, the speaker quest is real. I've been trying to use IRs of different types of speakers to see what will work best for my setup and avoid buying a speaker I might end up not liking, but's still difficult road to trend.
Yeah, be careful there. Any IR you try will be at the least a combination of speaker plus microphone, and it'll be close mic'ed. It really won't give you a good impression of what it'll sound like in the room.
@@Mikey__R I am very aware. :) I did a few shitty IRs with the cab I use, but it still gave me a good idea of the differences going back and forth quickly between the IRs vs changing the speakers and then going "well they are different, but what about them is so different that I like or don't like (Believe me, I did both) But yes, what they sound like in the room will be different, but an educated guess is much better than nothing.
To back one of Kyle's points; I played 3 hardcore shows this weekend in NY and NJ. Every band used 4x12 cabs. It's still the norm in DIY/hardcore/punk around here. I want to keep using 4x12 cabs, but might try and get some NEOs at some point. HEY KYLE...maybe a shootout between a v30 and those V-Type Neo speakers in a video???
backed!!!!
STONKS
replacing speakers is not as simple as I thought. Then finally I had enough of soldering and calculating and screwdrivers. I decided to buy another 4x12 Cab second hand. 5 minutes later I was the next owner of 1960A Marshall Cabinet loaded with G75T Celestions. It was really a bargain, but not so hard to find
Kyle,
I agree with you for the most part…but also it depends on what “low end” cab you get. I got an old B-52 AT-412a cab for $70. It’s actually birch and heavy as hell. You made a vid on em I believe. My space is limited in my music room and I needed more cabs to plug my growing number of heads into. I took the B-52 and replaced the mono/stereo jack setup with two independent speaker jacks and installed a set of Lynchbacks on one side and Creambacks in the other…each set wired separately with their own independent input jacks…Lynches came in a 212 Crate amp I went halves with a buddy for he got the chassis and cab I got speakers my cost $75. Creambacks were new.
I now have what amounts to two 212 slant cabs in a solid 412 cab and two additional options for plugging heads into without taking up additional space.
And cab sounds killer!! I like the sonics of slant 212’s sitting on top of straight cabs in my music room the sound hits my ear well. I definitely would not have done this with a cheap MDF Bugera or Line 6 cab. Sometimes the build quality of old school “affordable” stuff is much better quality than stuff made today. And thanks for the rock & metal amps n gear group!
As a former B-52 AT-412 owner, they are/were great cabs for the money. I bought one new for $400 - $500 back in the day, and they were "budget" but they were great. It was my first/last cab (more of a combo guy), but I'll always regret having to sell them because it was such a good cab for the money, and for the DIY person too.
@@Asillyhobo yep “budget” stuff back then was made to a quality standard not seen today especially speaker cabs. Old B-52, Peavey, Crate cabs were all made of heavy birch plywood not the crappy MDF and sawdust glued together cheap crap they use today.
I play a mesa 2x12 vertical live and sound guys are always surprised because a majority of people around here are still using 4x12s.
I love when somebody says "I was wrong", "I apologize", it's prove you are stronger than your fears
I got my Mesa 4x12 for $350 at some guitar shop in Santa Cruz. The tolex has some rips but it sounds sooooo good. I don’t even worry getting it in and out of the car for shows.
Hey Kyle, Have you ever thought about making a video comparing the most popular 2x12 cab models? I've never seen a specific 2x12 video on RUclips, and I believe that most people focus on this type of cabinet because of the cost/benefit/practicality. One more idea, make a video regarding the best speaker combinations, you have a lot of equipment there and can easily make an instructional video on this subject. By the way, congratulations on your work here, it makes life much easier for guitarists who don't have a lot of $$$ to spend on equipment.
I’m a big fan of upgrading and swapping speakers. Especially swapping to make different speaker combinations. I don’t necessarily do it with every cab. But I enjoy getting different flavors.
Have you tried mixing G12T-75's with Greenbacks or V30's? I've read a lot about peeps doing the "X" pattern. I currently have four 2011 G12T-75's in my 1960A Marshall cab, which sound fine with my 5150 EVH Iconic, however, I am curious if the cab will sound better if I swap two of the G12T-75's out with other speakers....and which would sound the best.
Off the top of my head I recall "The Shouty Man" Glenn Fricker of SMG studios making a cab-shootout, specifically testing the wood and construction of the cab. Meaning different cabs got loaded with different speakers. As far as I remember there was quite a bit of difference between the cabs. So that would be something to consider. Also why would a 2x12 be insufficient for live as opposed to a 4x12?
From an acoustic standpoint, 4 speakers physically projects more sound pressure and fills a room better. If you’re trying to get over a drummer the conventional wisdom is that you’d rather have better dispersion (more speakers) at a lower volume than few speakers at a higher volume. And that makes sense from the stage. From the mixer, I can tell you that a good 2x12 is a lot louder than people realize 😅. But that’s the opinion and experience of a cranky old sound guy. YMMV
@@xsonicassassinx your cranky rant sounds logical though!!
I remember that! The shoot-out you're talking about used the speakers, microphone, mic position, and the reamped performance as the control of the experiment. The cabinets, with differing materials, were the variables. The purpose was to see if material affected the tone and how and how much, by comparing the eq curves each cabinet produced. I remember there not being too much of a difference between the 2 better cabs. However, one produced an odd spike in a certain frequency that added an annoying hum. It was from the particle board cab, and that sound came from the cabinet more so than the speaker itself. The hypothesis was that the lesser density and pressed pieces of the boards allowed that specific frequency to filter through the wood. It is, however, in the context of making a studio recording, which is what that channel is all about. In a live setting, I'm not sure anyone would notice.
I temember reading an article about 5 years ago when I was getting both 2x12 cabs and 4x12 cabs used. 2x12 cabs actually disperse pretty well, much better than people though origi ally, compared to 4x12 cabs. Sure 4x12 cabs can get louder with more watt capacity, but the 4x12 cab was designed in the 19069's or 1950's, not sure which, and Pete Townsend was the first with a,4x12 Marshall cab, I think (?). It's an old design. Not a new high tech, computer modeled and design aided cabinet. They said 4x12 speakers close together can somewhat wve Soundwave bumping into each other, and actually don't project as well, acoustically as they had assumed. Still good, plenty of sound pressure, by 1960s design. Which is why Marshall's that were desirable in the 1970s and 1980s for metal are not as desirable as newer Mesa, recto oversized, engl, diezel, egnater, VHT, Bogner, boutique, and certain other newer designs and construction quality cabs are. In both strength and sound quality. Does anyone really want a mushy pressed wood cab, ir a 9 ply Baltic birch computer designed cab that doesn't resonate or buzz for their 4 V30 speakers to mount on or play out of? I used to thing guitar cables priced $10 were sufficient until I heard a $100 guitar cable. Better sound, if you had a good rig to hear it with. Don't laugh, some soeaker cables for home stereos cost more than $20,000 a pair. It would be hard to keep making cables that expensive sell for 30 years if there wasn't some difference. People would catch on. Stereo speaker's cabinets are different from guitar speaker cabinets. Stereos want nonresonant. Dead sounding medium to high density fiberboard with inert glue. I actually do t know what an English cab construction is. Is is muffled inside with soundproof mayerial?
With computers and anechouc sound measurement Chambers and movable much both kinds of cabinets are a lot better now and will get even better.
I think swapping out speakers is one of the most fun thing when it comes to searching for that specific guitar tone.
My tip is to use a 1x12 cab and search for used speakers. I have treid around 20 different speakers so far and found some great gems. When you know what to get you can purchase 4 of those awesome sounding speakers for your 4x12.
PS.: I also made IRs of alle the speakers I tried, so I can compare the characterisitcs later. After I made the IRs, I sold all the speakers I don;t need.
Being a guitarist in 2024 is an absolute pitfall, you have such a high risk at making a mistake or a wrong decision on gear more than ever.
If you're playing the long game, and have the funds to do so, go ahead and buy that $800 used 4x12 Orange cabinet... It holds its worth and they sound great. BUT, there is nothing wrong with investing in a cheap cabinet and upgrading its speakers if you alreay know the repercissions of doing so... which is buying expensive speakers and putting them in a Bugera or equivilent wont sell well on the open market. If you are not buying gear to invest in its resell worth, then either of these options are viable for you.
If you are more live focused, this whole argument on speaker sound goes out the window, because ive heard huge expensive setups sound trash because of the live rooms acoustic environment, while a cheaper rig sound awesome, you also have the mix engineer to contend with which again, is another variable on your sound...
Running Impulse Responses live is the best and most accurate way to deliver a high quality tone live, they're fast to change out depending on your venue, and have a tonne of options, my final advice is, get an IR loader for live applications, and do what makes you happy and makes sense for studio setups.
PS: Glenn Fricker was completely correct with his tests, but again, thats for studio applications.
I feel for ya bro sometimes it’s a tough crowd, love the new spot looks great 🎸🤘I still also use n see plenty of bands using 4+12 cabs all over 🎸🤘
Yeah, you're right on both videoes, i agree with both. Don't let the negative comments bother you, all people are just voicing their opinions, which is why I think you created your channels to begin with in the first place, to show amps, teach people, and hear their feedback. Thos channel has been a blessing to me, it's hard to find a good formate where you can hear cutting edge gear as well as classic gear and comparisons between them. My favorite thi g is you play heavy and that's what i like to hear about these pieces of equipment, how they sound in a heavy context. No player anywhere is universaly loved and embraced, if ynwie or Eddie histed this channel, they would accept some criticism from somebody somewhere, haha. You demonstrate the amps and gear bery well, youve educated me how to tune in my own gear better because of your examples. I had a good, high rated cab i got with 4 V30s, replaced them with sonething different for low bass response and some different tone. 2 swamp thangs and 2 celestion 35th anniversary x sonethings, i forgot, i have a picture of them installed somewhere. Speakers were used moderately, for 4 hundred total, cab was 6 hundred with the previous speakers include, i gave 2 V30s to my death metal friends cheap cab and used the other 2 used V30s in a 2x12. So for a thousand, i got a cab that had liw end response, and some vintage type tone, althought the wattage is varied for the 2 pair installed now. This was in 2016. I waa now told that shopping a 4x12 of 100lbs cost 300 alone, now. So i think im going to keep the cab, even if it's big and heavy. It sounds great i feel you made some valud points in your videos about value in cabs and soeakers, new and used. Thanks! I love your other channel, heeavy metal amps and pedals. It's just as fun and educational to check out as this one. I didnt know it was yours! My neighbor down the street joined it too, unbeknownst to me.
Gonna take out the valve kings in my peavy cab and put in two Hezu deamons and two MOJO tones, but not looking for resale value.
HB and Mesa, both 2x12 v30 here, they are different, but not one better then the other. Prefer Mesa for leads and hb for rithm. 1 hb 2x12 cheaper the 2 v30 😂😂😂😂 and they sound massive and good. Next will be the Jensen and a dv77. Never thought that video need a part 2, more explanation. Dude, you just do you, that's why i and other follow you 🤘🤘🤘
I bought a Beringer cab and through in some mojotones and love it.
Buying a used Carvin 412 with V30's from Kyle Bull was more cost effective than buying 4 new V30's to stick into my 1960a cab.
I think it would help to clarify when you say "investment." Because most people's (myself included) first thought when they hear that is a speculative asset, which we should be badmouthing.
I just picked up a quad of 60 watt/8 ohm Randall Jaguar Vintage series speakers for $120. Never heard of them before and could literally find no info on them. Slapped two of them in a Peavey MS with V30's in an X pattern. They sound effing awesome.
Jaguars were the standard Randall speakers in the 1980s when all their amps were solid state. So.e professional guitarists used them. Maybe dimebag later.
@@douglassmith5466 Yeah, you are talking about the Jaguar RES-80 speaker. Go try and find any info on the Jaguar Vintage Series.
It made sense to me the first time and still makes sense. People don’t listen to plain English with their “golden tone” ears. They might wanna turn down the cabs they paid too much for because it’s clearly ruining their logic. 😂😂😂
P.S. Glad to already see you make vids from the new space! 🤘🏻😎🎸
OMG those high ceiling walls will need way more amps to fill up lol😂
I kinda took a similar approach. I didn't want the "industry standard" speaker but I did want a good quality cab. Ended up finding a used Randall 4x12 with some 70/80s in it.
Never been happier.
I think you made perfect sense in the last video. It's simple, the economics don't make sense if you're upgrading a cheap used cab, and the price of the upgrade puts you into the price range of a better-made cab with the speakers you want.
For V30's or Greenbacks, honestly, just get the Harley Benton cabs. It's literally cheaper to get their 2x12 or vertical 2x12 with V30 or greenbacks already in there AND have it shipped, than it is to buy the speakers. If you wanna put some cheaper Eminence speakers, WGS, or something like Mojotone's in there, by all means, get that cheap Behringer, buy the Seismic Audio unloaded cloth covered 2x12 or 4x12 cab
I have 2 line 6 slant backs. 1 with the stock V30's and 1 with 2 aftermarket V30's and 2 of the stock cheap customs made for line 6. The cab with the 4 stock V30's sounds the best. I'm working on a cheap square 4x12 cabinet with speakers of my own choice. All cabs being played with a Spider valve 2 head. I'm also planning to upgrade a Marshall 6.5 inch combo and a 10 inch Gamma just to see how much the speaker changes sound.
yourr experiencing why now knobody speaks in congress without a lawyer next to them ...society has gotten so pathetic
I wanted a 2x12 cab and just wasn't having any luck finding anything used and I didn't want to spend the big bucks. I waited a while and finally a marshall origin showed up with a cream back h and a m for $300. I know the cab is mdf but I figured it was cheaper than buying the speakers new. The cab is heavy but the mix of the cream backs sound great with my marshall jcm800 clone
Totally agree with you. Putting great speakers in a marginal cab will only get you halfway there at best. Granted a marginal cab can be a subjective opinion I suppose so YMMV. I replaced the stock Fender speakers in a 4x12 20 years ago with V30's (back when they were like $75 each) and it was a night an day upgrade it...loved it until I bought a Splawn 4x12 and then a Diezel 4x12...another night and day upgrade. Was definitely worth paying the higher price for the those boutique used cabs with great speakers in them already.
Need a heavey amp and cab for heavy tones
You've been talking about sleeper cabs for a long time and it's helped me a lot. I got a Line 6 Spider Valve cab with V30s for like $300. Even with shipping it was cheaper than four new V30s. Granted my ideas of good tone are stuck in 2004, but I like running my DSL and 6505 through that cab at the same time.
I do think the type of cabinet makes a difference, rather it be an oversized 4x12 and thickness of the wood used , try and match the speaker to the cabinets natural eq.
I tried swapping out the stock Peavey speakers on some older Peavey amps ie. 80's Peavey stereo chorus 2x12 and Peavey Bandit. Honestly found a Celeston in the Peavey Bandit sounds like shit and keep the Sheffield in it and ended up keeping the stock Scorpions in the stereo chorus. However I dropped a Eminence DV-77 speaker in my Marshall JCM800 4010 combo and it sounds amazing. Waiting to get 4 more Eminence DV-77 speaker for my Carvin 4x12 cab.
I'm 50 and still love my 4x12 cabs, I don't care about trends, just what I like , I'm also running 4 amps simultaneously through a Radial JD7 Injector rack unit to pull this off. That's how much I care about trends lol
I love my radial a/b switch box.
@douglassmith5466 I had the a/b box , wasn't quite enough for getting rid of phase and hum issues when running certain amps together, but the Radial jd7 injector rack has lots of options to fine tune the abilities. Unfortunately has quite a price tag, but the quality is second to none.
I had a sunk cost of a Bugera 4x12 that I purchased well over a decade ago. Always sounded overly bass heavy and undefined. I swapped a pair of V30s and a pair of DV-77s into it and the difference is massive. I could have purchased a used 4x12 loaded with V30s but I specifically wanted that mix of speakers and the cab was already laying around. No regrets whatsoever in that decision. Would I have searched for a cheap cab to buy and do this? Probably not from a cost perspective. But I love the way that thing sounds now. Its a real nice sleeper cab since the swap.
Those little 412 cabs aren't worth upgrading, you just end up with a cab that's nearly as heavy as a 1960 cab but with a smaller volume and worse construction. You would be better off with a nicer 212 with good speakers. There are quite a few clones of the Marshall 1960 out there if you want one that can be found cheaper; for example I have the Peavey 430A that I upgraded with V30s and Creamback H75s, the V30s were cheap second-hand but the Creambacks were an indulgence. Also depends on the market. Cabs are a lot more expensive here in Australia.
Really shouldn't have had to do a follow up about this. You Totally Nailed it perfectly the 1st time you explained it. Itt made perfect serve the 1st time just as it makes perfect sense now. 👍💯
Imagine not having a radio to match that upgrade anymore. Namastè.
I 100% agree with ya! Makes much more sense to buy used but there is always the select few that feels used is bad lol
Tone is also in the wood also and might not be hold the weight and quality of the 2 to 4 speakers
judging by the echo in that studio can we expect a video on building sound panels?
You’re not wrong about hardcore shows not having a full blown PA for the bands.. many many many times me another guitar player went without being mic for the show. Our singer would step out in the crowd and tell us to volume up or down lol!! That was 20 years ago.. I miss those days!! That was always a good time.
I put some used veteran 60s in a sears and robuck cab I got from a Pawn shop, the veteran 60s were from a music go round locally, cab was basically free and the veterans were like 60$ each.. sounds sick af now
Some people just want a forever cabinet. A cabinet with speakers they like and will hold onto forever. It’s not always about resale value
my new favorite speaker I have recently tried after testing several is the celestion greenback
I bought a used mid-00s Mesa oversized 412 loaded with UK-made Vintage 30s in really great shape for $650 without haggling last week. You absolutely can get these if you just keep an eye out.
If you want to swap speakers in a quality cab to experiment with sounds? Sure. But you’re really shooting yourself in the foot if you upgrade one of those dumpy ones with new high quality speakers.
what denotes a "good cab" and a "bad cab"? (both a Q and a topic suggestion)
Used speaker prices have been bonkers lately. I bought a brand new creamback 75 for less than what people were wanting to sell them used with shipping.
creamback 75 in particular are impossible to find used right now, unless they are super overpriced.
I am in the same boat as you.
@@CalanReichelWe're going to need a bigger boat...........🦈
Just your logic as to why it’s a bad idea can’t really be refuted. High quality cabs with expensive speakers and can be purchased for a fraction of the new price….whereas you buying a $100 cab and putting $400 speakers just gives you a much more expensive cab that still has a terrible resale value.
"resale value" is a terrible decision metric to begin with, though, especially if you're talking about buying musical equipment to actually make music.
@@jedidethfreak no it’s not. Once again…you can buy a straight up high quality cab with good speakers used for the same price as you would a cheaply built cab that you put expensive speakers in. The higher quality cab is going to last you longer and take more of a beating, and likely sound better. Then, if you ever did decide you wanted to downsize….you can recoup your money. There is no reason for creative types to act financially dumb, even if resale value isn’t their primary concern. Stuff happens, and sometimes needs change or you just get in a bind and need to liquidate…might as well set yourself up for maximum return, while also having a high quality piece of gear to aid you in your artistic purposes. My co-guitarist did this same thing…bought a $150 cab and put like $400 worth of speaker in it. I straight up bought a used Mesa 4x12 for $500 and could sell it for more. He will have to take a huge loss if he sells his.
@@jedidethfreak The argument against this kind of logic is just buyers justification from people who spent their dollars wrong. There is objectively "high quality" and "good". Buying anything else to polish a turd stays exactly that - polishing a turd.
@@brandonbryson3317 you know most people use combo amps, right? So that doesn't help at all?
@@jedidethfreak did you even watch the video? Im discussing the subject matter in the video…Kyle goes out of his way to say that he is mostly talking about 4x12s and 2x12s(to a less extent) and even comments that this advice is not talking about 1x12s. And as for your claim, what metrics do you have? I live in Austin and attend and play live music gigs regularly. I see pretty much an even mix. You’ll see a lot of combos with the indie rock and blues guys…but for any of the harder rock and metal I almost exclusively see bands using heads and 4x12s. My band uses 4x12s as well. Heads and cabs are alive and well in my area. You’ll almost never see a metal band using combos. And I remind you, we are discussing this on Kyle Bull’s channel…a channel almsot exclusively focused on metal, amp heads, and 4x12 cabs.
“You know what this wall is missing? Another amp..”
I 100% agree with this.
Like, even if you buy a used good cab with good speakers that you're gonna change anyways, you can sell those speakers and make some money back too.
I really wish he would have touched on the question of whether I should replace the speakers in my iphone with V30s or M25s.
Any thoughts on how guitar amp manufacturers do a pretty good job of matching cab/speakers with their amps? I have some amps that sound great with the intended matching cab/speakers and not so much, even with higher end speakers.
I think matching amps with speakers is a challenge in itself. I have some amps that sound better with Peavey Blue Marvel's or a Celestion G12M-70s, than a Celestion V-30.
Crate in particular used to use Eminence speakers in a lot of their stuff, and although not high end (at the time), I think they did a really good job of matching them with the intended amp. Same with Marshall Valvestate amps and cabs from the 2010's.
Seems like they had to fine tune the match even more to keep it buget. 😄 I think, sometimes "the match" is even more important than a bigger magnet on the driver or a birch cabinet. Like a good ear goes further.
Loved these 2 videos and I totally agree that you can find great deals just be patient……..question have you done a video on a Peavey 5150 combo? I got one and I’m not happy with its sound it’s seems very bright and twangy and I’m a total Peavey fan owning a Bravo 112 since the 90’s. Is changing the speaking in the 5150 combo from the Sheffield’s to Celestions or buying a used cab? Love your input
Harley Benton: mdf? Expensive V30s? HOLD MY BEER
So, I think I'm in another-other situation where, as a budding DIYer, I'd rather build a cab from MojoTone or Soundtown, and then load in/out my own speakers. Will I make money off the cab? No, but the point was to have it as a "form factor" or platform of cabinet, to then do what I want, with the speakers I want, and sell or trade them as I need to.
I saw your OG video and agreed, because yeah the cabs I'm trying to build are hard to come by or expensive. The Yamaha THRC212 is pricey when you find one, and otherwise not easy to find. And the Gibson GA79RVT is so unique, that I'd just have to build or commission a builder or save up for that combo amp.
So in those cases DIY, is the way to go and its less about resale value and more about philosophy of use, and focusing on the speaker config.
Whoa that rooms got some reverb
TBH, I've seen a few RUclipsr's do the exact thing you're advising against - upgrading the speakers in Behringer, Bugera, and Marshall MG cabs - and a few found that both they and the audience actually liked the recording reamped through that cab than even, say... a 1960 cab. If people are gigging with 2x12's and want a beefier tone, buying a used, shitty cab might be exactly what you need for recording. Will that cab hold up to gigging, long term? ...Probably not, as these cabs aren't always the best in build quality and/or durability, so maybe keep it at home and only use it to record/let it leave the house to go to a studio. If you run a studio, even better - let it live there. FOREVER. 😱
Fwiw, if you're getting less common speakers for your cab, it's likely going to cost you a lot more money to begin with, so why not get the better cab in the first place if you are going to "invest heavily" in your tone? The cheap cab with exotic, boutique speakers scenario just doesn't make sense to me. Why not spend the 200-300 bucks more for a SOLID used cab, possibly sell the stock V30s, GBs or whatever and then put Webers, Fanes or whatnot in.
I probably said it the first time around, the people in my scene that are BROKE and have meh cabs probably already sank the money. That Marshall avt cab isn’t winning any awards, so throw 2 good speakers in it. That’s enough to make a difference. Certainly better to record. And if one can’t afford an entirely new cab, upgrading a speaker every months is easier on the wallet with decent results.
But if you’re in the market for your first big boy cab, absolutely your point stands. I wish like hell I’d have snagged a peavey ms412 when they were dirt cheap back in the day and just held onto it.
Coming from the perspective of someone who mixed live sound in basements and tiny venues… I wish like hell more people used 2x12’s 😅. Would certainly make it easier to balance. But that’s the grumpy sound guy in me talking
Just make a metal song of all these comments like Ryan-DXP did...
I'm always looking for used gear, because I want to save money, but there are some things that you don't get used. Someday I will buy me a custom made monster baritone cabinet from Zilla Cabs, a 2x12 oversized cabinet with a Thick Boy speaker from OverTonez and a Celestion BN12-300S. Maybe next year... 🤘
What about used cabinets for cheap and swap out the speakers for USED speakers? Seems like a win to me. You said it, "Sleeper Cabs."
If you're gonna buy NEW stuff, better know what you want first and not in the "let's try this out" mode unless you got cash to burn.
This should not be controversial. It just makes economic sense to buy a quality used cab.
speakers. Of cash wàs not an issue. What are your top 3 favorite soeakers.
Great video Kyle! im a 4x12 guy!
bought a garbage sizemic audio 212 ob because it was cheap as can be and I wanted the eminence speakers inside it for my orange 212 haha. Where it gets interesting is, I had a pair of OLD stock well broken in T100s laying around. like old old, 4 ohm speakers. Stuck them inside the garbage cab thinking I'll give this to my son to practice with, fired up the evh el34 and gave it a test run at volume. That garbage is now one of my favorite sounding beaters cabs EVER! Cleans, suck. Vintage tones? Nope! Throw it on the blue channel crank the piss out of it and there it is. One of the best 1990 completely unapologetic HC\Punk tones I've ever gotten especially out of a 212. Unfortunately its a studio cab because of how janky it is so it'll never see a stage.
Don't sweat it Kyle, keep on doing what you're doing. I'd love for someone to come up with a believable reason as to why buying something used that's higher quality (and puts themselves money-ahead down the road) isn't a smart idea. Being artistic and smart with your money are mutually exclusive now? The real shame is that you had to make a 15 minute video explaining kindergarten math to the same morons who enthusiastically believe $4 gallon gas or $10 coffees are bargains...
I bought a crap crate 4x12 and threw in the cheapest of the cheap. Some kind of made in India crap. Put 2 guitar and 2 Bass Speakers in the cabinet. Sounds good enough for rock and roll! I also have a Jackson 4x12 and left it stock. Love both.
Another point worth making is that cabinet construction makes a huge difference in tone, not just the speakers. So putting nice speakers in a shit cab is like putting a supercharger in a Smartcar. Will it perform better? Sure. Will it rule the road? Not a chance.
People also seem to forget that crappy cabs SOUND worse than quality cabs. So upgrading a crappy cab isn’t even really artistically the best way to go, even if you don’t factor in resale value…
Anybody out there run 2 Eminence Legend speakers and 2 Mesa V30's in a 4x12??
I squeeked a deal on a Mesa slant Oversize mint cab for $400 recently. I'm used to all V30's....and find the Eminence Legend speakers too harsh and spikey on the top end. Too much EQing to tame the highs. Thoughts?
How dare you point out us guitar players have bad listening skills and we tend to walk away with the wrong point. Anyways, pickups don’t change your tone!
They do actually…
Are you serious about pickups not making a difference? haha
But it is true that new strings and old string sound the same.
@@douglassmith5466 no
If the cab is mdf i wont even bother. If its birch it deserves good speakers..
Empty cabs can be gotten for surprisingly cheap on sites like Amazon. A 1x12 from a certain small (American Sound Connection) brand is legit $89, and the same brand has an unloaded 1x15 for guitar or bass for $10 more. Then there are brands like Seismic Audio, Sound Town, etc, with cheap open and closed back 2x12's. 1x12 and 2x12 are super viable these days, because there plenty of guitar speakers with 100, 120, 150, even 200 or 300 watt handling. Eminence Swamp Thang, Celestion Red Back, Seismic Audio Quake 12, at 150 Watts apiece, can handle a whole ass amp head by themselves. G12K-100 can easily run an Iconic with 20 watts to spare. Two V30 speakers can handle old school early 90's 5150 or early 2k's 6534+ 120 watt amps with ease.
I thought your original video commented more on the VALUE of the cab and the speakers taking a dive in the resell market. Which is objectively just true lol. Putting new V30s in a beat up old Crate or Behringer cab is like LS swapping a Saturn Ion. It might do what you want it to do, but you're gonna be stuck with it unless you part it out at a loss lol.
Do I have weak genes if I downsized from a 6x12 back to 4x12🤔
612 rule 🤘🏽
Ye
Bought a Diamond cab with V30’s for cheap. Sold the speakers for what I paid for the whole cab. Then I got raped on 4x EVM 12L Black Labels (bought new) to put in the Diamond as I couldn’t find the Black Labels (used) anywhere … Ya win some, you loose some! 🤣🤣🤣
I’m upgrading my Randall 2x12 from V30’nese to Eminence DV77s - getting rid of the V30.
KYLE !!!!You dual amp my two favorite amps....
Why is that not a video??!!?
Rockerverb+mezza
Most people lack the number of neurons needed to not shit on themselves, let alone for me to give any credence to their opinion. The previous vid was perfectly clear about why it wasn't the best option. A lot of people probably dropped a lot of coin on upgrading speakers in a shit cab and gaslit themselves that it was worth it because they'd rather live with the cognitive dissonance rather than admit Kyle was right and there's a better route to take.
Is it upgrading? Or is it changing the final eq of the amp basic lay just a different sound I don't call it upgrading I call it experimenting
It’s 2024, you can play 76.66% of shows with a 2x12 setup. Hell even a 1x12 will work as you can run the sound through the house PA. If the house has no PA it’s probably a small venue that you don’t need a 4x12.
Think of this, when was the last show you played that you moved your volume past 4? If you 100 watt amp is at 10 and still struggling to keep up then you can move to the full stack. Be smart y’all, you don’t need 100 watts, you don’t need a 4x12.
It’s y’alls money, spend as you will. But as a gigging musician I can tell you I’ve had many amps and cabs and my current gigging setup is a PRS MT15 with two 1x12 MT112 loaded with DV-77s.
This is my opinion, but just trying to help the broke musician.
For 750$ you could get 2 cabs with v30's. Within 2 months I picked up 2 USA Randall cabs with v30's,one for 298$ the other 340. Just have to be patient and live on guitar center used section. sell the v30's and use that money towards the speakers you want 🤷
Well stated. Always buy the best you can afford and you won’t be disappointed.
I bought a homemade 4x12 about 2 years ago for 125 bucks! got it home cracked it open to find a quad of 1983 Celestion G12-65’s I ended up selling them for 450 bucks a pair lol
I still have hearing today because if the venue's PA was shitty, and the guitarist(s) and bassist had to be louder than the BAM BAM drummer, and the PA with the singer-only had to be louder than that...I wore earplugs. If your audience is wearing earplugs, you really don't have to obsess about your tone. And the mix is shit anywhere within 50 feet of the stage, because there isn't one. If they aren't wearing earplugs, your tone is on top of an EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE sound they aren't aware of until the band stops.