Marriage or Monasticism? (The Young Facing the Two Paths in Life) - St. Paisios the Athonite
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- Опубликовано: 21 июл 2024
- From "Spiritual Counsels Vol. IV: Family Life":
0:07 - Married life and monastic life are both blessed
3:15 - Anxiety in getting settled
5:14 - Let us help the young follow their inclination
8:30 - Deciding on a way of life
13:41 - Studies and getting settled
20:16 - The spiritual life is the basic prerequisite to a good marriage
Geronda, what should one say to young people who ask if monastic life is superior to married life?
-To begin with, one must help them understand what the destiny of man is and what the meaning of life is. Then one can explain to them that both roads indicated by our Church are blessed, because each can lead them to Paradise if they abide by the will of God. Let's say that two people start out on a pilgrimage. One takes the bus using the public road and the other goes on foot along some trail. Both have the same goal. God rejoices in the one and marvels at the other just the same. It would be bad if he who goes on foot criticizes the other who takes the bus, or vice versa.
Those young people who may be thinking about monasticism should know that the mission of the monk or the nun is a very high calling; it is to become an angel. In the next life, in Heaven, we will live like angels, Jesus Christ had told the Sadducees. This is why some very philotimo-filled* young people become monks or nuns and embark on their angelic life from this present life.
But let no one think that those who go to the monastery will be saved simply because they became monks or nuns. Each person will account to God about whether he sanctified the path of life he chose. Philotimo is needed everywhere. God does not make deserving or undeserving people; but, anyone who doesn't have this spirit of philotimo, no matter what path of life he follows, will be undeserving. On the contrary, the philotimo-filled man will make progress, wherever he may be, because Divine Grace is with him. There are married people who live most virtuously and are sanctified. The head of a household who loves God and is drawn by divine eros, can make great spiritual progress. In the meantime, they can endow their children with virtues, create a good family, and receive a double reward from God.
This is why every young person should aim to struggle in life with philotimo and without anxiety, in order to sanctify his or her chosen path of life. Do they prefer marriage? Then they ought to wed, but they should struggle to be good spouses and live a holy life. Do they prefer monastic life? Then they should choose monastic life, but they must struggle to become a good monk or nun. One must weigh and assess his strengths, understand his limitations, before embarking on one of the two ways of life. If, for example, a young woman can see that she doesn't have the strength needed to become a nun, then she can humbly say to God, "My Lord, I am weak; I cannot live as a nun. Please send me a good man who can help me so that we create a good family and live a spiritual life.” God will not abandon her. If she chooses to marry and create a good family; if she lives in accordance with the Gospel, God will not ask for more from her.
Of course, there are those young people from whom God only asks a few things; but they, out of philotimo, struggle more and offer Him far beyond what He asks of them by choosing the monastic life. They will receive a double crown. This means that if a soul is inclined toward the married life and, out of much philotimo, sacrifices everything to follow the monastic life, their philotimo moves God exceedingly. But they must make sure their motives are pure and completely free of pride. From that point on, God will dispel all hardships.
*Philotimo means “love of honor” and in the spiritual life it is the desire to “outdo one another in showing honor” (Rom 12:10) and fulfill the Lord’s command that “whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain” (Matt 5:41).
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Don't forget that this advice was given before the internet era, when the only way you could learn something is at university, and degrees actually guaranteed a "settled" life, which, some Christians are not even called to have in my opinion. Safety can become an idol
I needed to hear this. As a recently married young man, I've been thinking I possibly chose the wrong path, and I won't make spiritual progress if I'm engaged in worldly pursuits to provide for my family.
Hello, I’ve been worried about the same thing. However, I think there is a big difference between living in the world and living a worldly life. There is still many opportunities for spiritual advancement and practicing minor forms of asceticism in your daily life, even for those with children. I hope you do not despair about your decisions. Perhaps this would be a good conversation to have with your spiritual father
"As a recently married man ,ive been thinking i possibly chose the wrong path "
Probably every single married person has thought this...
" as ive recently become a father...
* the kid starts crying and rebelling*
" i think i might have chosen the wrong path "
Every single parent has probably thought this at some point
Listen ... if you are married it was gods will. The young men who are single and dont get a wife ...no matter how much they try.. is gods will for them to not be married
Everything that happens is gods will or he allows it for some reason ,sometimes to be a lesson for you ..
If you are not happy with your wife and you want to divorce.. better make sure you don't marry again or have sex with anyone because that is adultery
So monasticism might be the alternative
Many divorced men went to monasteries and found more happiness there than they ever did in marriage.
Just remember
Keep the love of the Lord and service to him above everyone else..love him more than anyone else
And you are good , whether you are a monastic , a lay person or married.
We are not to seek worldly honors or glorification from men
It's all about your personal relationship with the Lord and with the grace of God , make yourself into a temple for the Holy Spirit.
Then it doesn't matter where you are or what is your title.
We are all one in Christ Jesus
Monks or not
I have known monks that are very sinful and perverse ..Even archimandrites , priest monks that are very perverse .. . Perverted..
It's not about your title . It's about your heart
@@Eli1993. I'm very happy with my wife and would never think of divorce. I was just reading about Theosis and thinking I will never achieve it with a job and family. But now I see family life is an equally valid spiritual path if we walk that path with God.
“It is a great art to succeed in having your soul sanctified. A person can become a saint anywhere. He can become a saint in Omonia Square, if he wants. At your work, whatever it may be, you can become a saint through meekness, patience, and love. Make a new start every day, with new resolution, with enthusiasm and love, prayer and silence - not with anxiety so that you get a pain in the chest.” ~ St. Porphyrios
@@Alex-hz2xg wow! Basically the same message as I said.
This is something people do not spend enough time discerning. New Martyr Daniel Sysoev has a book on this topic on the issue whether to marry. Celibacy is a superior state. That being said it is not everyone's calling.
0:07 Married Life and Monastic Life are BOTH Blessed.
0:28 Each can lead them to Paradise, if they abide by The Will of God.
0:33
1. Take a bus
2. Walk a trail
1:17 “Each person will account to God about whether he Sanctified the path he chose.”
1:39
2:03 Struggle to Become Good.
2:44 Philotimo.
3:54 Entrust To God.
4:24 “Everything can’t be done at the same time.”
4:49 The best thing to do is to continue studying. Later on pursue what matures within oneself and brings one peace.
5:16 Inclination.
6:06 The Decision about which life they will follow has to be their own.
6:25 Try to help to discover the right path and peace.
6:43 I will rejoice. I will feel like a brother to him.
7:10 “But you cannot put all people into the same mold.”
7:33 Perfection.
8:03 “We do not have the right to force others. If they want, the can force themselves on their own accord.”
8:34 The years pass by quickly.
8:55 There are bitter hardships but if one remains close to God, Sweet Jesus will Sweeten them.
9:22 Those who settle down early maintain a childlike simplicity and get along easy with others. Either get married young or become a monk young.
10:17 Young choose, Old become a choice for others.
11:03 Tremendous Pride.
11:57 Considering both Marriage and Monasticism. The Devil attacks.
12:30 “I just don’t know.”
• If you feel more inclined to marry, It is better to marry.
13:02 Now you have both.
13:25 Trust In Christ ☦️
13:43 ☦️
14:32 Learn, keep Learning.
15:12 “What can we do since you have not settled on anything.”
15:42 “We mustn’t waste our time.”
16:52 Don’t rush.
18:54 “I don’t feel sorry for you. You brought this on yourself. But I do feel sorry for your poor children.”
19:42 Family while in school?
+ Finish School work, then get married.
+ Don’t do both in the same time period.
20:20
Establish foundation for a family.
21:30 Studies before Attraction.
22:05 Virtuous Mothers
22:20 Spiritual Life
22:48 🪖
God will not give you a Cross made for another. Love, and carry what comes with it. Ordinarily, the old are happier with monastic life; the restless, more adventurous young need to marry to settle down. The heavens decide who you bump into: a superior, or a partner.
I didn't find the Orthodox church until a few months ago at the age of 30.. I've not been married and have no kids. I feel as though the monastic life is a good fit for me. I'll be a catechumen next week! I'm very excited about being part of the church. My only concern is my age. I'll want to be a parishioner for a while before moving on. I'll be possibly 32 or 33 by that time. I'm concerned that'll be too late and many monastaries won't want to accept me. Pray for me that God reveals my path
Sibling, a monastery won't deny a person the pathway to salvation. There is a trial phase for some years perhaps if needed, to see if the person fits. I'm 34 myself. I would have had a family already if it was possible, but it is hard these days to find a partner who is church inclined when so many are secular(non-believers in my humble opinion). So I am leaning towards monasticism. Only personally, and I may be very wrong, but I'm in no hurry to go either way. I'm growing spiritually right now just like a monk, but open for marriage. Fasting, praying, reading lives of saints - staying on the narrow path and hopefully growing closer to God is the most important thing. If I get to 40 and still don't have a wife, then I'll really just go the monastic life. Maybe even earlier.
In our day and age you should be prohibited from choosing until you have read a good bunch of church fathers, life of Saints with that focus, councels from recently repressed saints and elders and lastly the canons of the church. And then you should be examined if you have the strength for the chosen path and if you are worthy.
Just because you might not want to become monastic doesn’t automatically qualify you for marriage.
I maintain that in the 21st century, the Orthodox path of marriage is way harder than monastic life. But life ain’t sunshine and rainbows, whatever path you choose it will be hard. It will be an arena.
Prayer and the guidance of good spiritual father can often do far more than reading books, even the best of books. But you’re right, these are serious matters. “For which of you, intending to build a tower, does not sit down first and count the cost, whether he has enough to finish it-lest, after he has laid the foundation, and is not able to finish, all who see it begin to mock him, saying, ‘This man began to build and was not able to finish’” (Luke 14:28-30).
Good spiritual fathers are really hard to come by. The reality is most people will have to seriously discern this question for themselves and their spiritual father is just going to say yes for either choice and not really give too much substantial input.
I say this not to be a negative nancy, but so people don't freak out when they realize this is how it works in the real world.
At the monastery itself, if this is the option chosen, they will be a little more discerning.
Things have become more complicated since the young learn crazy things at college.
Thank you for this video. It's been of great help to me, I turned 30 earlier this year and have never been in a relationship with a woman, not for lack of trying, and the thought of being a monastic is something that has occasionally shone in the back of my mind, but up until recently I've been far too worldly and haven't even regularly gone to church despite being baptized as an Anglican.
This changed in August this year, and ever since I've began my conversion to Orthodoxy, I've felt stronger inclinations towards monastic life and find myself constantly falling into shame for not praying enough, falling to sins of pride and lust, failing at fasting and numerous other issues, but everyone who I've spoken to has advised me to be patient and to wait until my chrismation before taking further action, as I'm only a Catechumen.
I constantly feel like I've missed the bus, but there's also parts of me that feel like any guilt or shame that I have in trying to lead a more righteous life is of the evil one, but I know I can't keep doing this forever so I will talk with my spiritual father and see what guidance he can offer.
30 is still young. I talked to an Abbot who said they received a novice who was 70. He was married, and his wife said on her deathbed you always wanted to be a monk, so go be a monk! The abbot said he ended up becoming one of the greatest monks he’s ever known! I say that to hopefully give you some encouragement if the Lord if indeed calling you to the monastery. From that story I gather it’s not at what age or how long one is a monk but the change of the heart and the fruit that follows after taking root in a monastery that counts.
Thank you!
Thank you so much brother!!
Glory to God❤️☦️🙏🏽😊
I need more of this
Glory be to God
Thank you! In these last few weeks I have been seriously seeking guidance on this exact question
This video is a great help thank you Elder paisios for your words
Glory be to God !
Glory be to God! thank you my Lord for showing me this, pray for us St Paisos!
Orthodox women (probably more converts than cradle) need to hear this and understand this is choice they need to make as well. I'm not saying Orthodox women converts should throw themselves at the first Orthodox single man that crosses their path, but in my experience and in the experience of many other single Orthodox guys, single Orthodox women converts are way, way, way too picky and outright reject a lot of very good guys without giving them 5 minutes of their time. That is extreme and is IMO, allowing worldly values and ways to detrimentally affect them. You are not always going to experience instantaneous attraction or sparks the second you meet someone. Even if you do, that's no guarantee of anything. The ways of the life of the Church has to be the standards by which we find a spouse, for both men and women.
@William Braddell exactly. Too many people who are otherwise faithful Orthodox coverts cannot seem to leave that baggage in the narthex. Its not all their fault, our clergy are loathe to discuss and teach on this topic.
On the other hand, it is really difficult to find an Orthodox man who has good values and can provide for the family... In my country men do nothing and only women are providing for families. (Not everyone is the same but in general we have this situation)
I think it’s better to learn how to be a good spouse and get married late than rush into something and do it poorly.
@@joannasen5232 so you learn that by practicing being an faithful Orthodox Christians. The Church gives us everything we need for marriage and for everything else. What's NOT to do is to learn or copy the ways of the world.
Women are free to make their own choices.
this is such a good video
Wow I really needed this
I want so much a monastic life and devote my whole life and focus pure on god for a long time. But i live in Holland still by my parents i am 20. and there are no monastries here. I dream of being a monk but i cant leave to a far away monastery and break my parents heart. But having a family life i am afraid that the world drags me down and i waste a lot of time that should be spent on god it feels aa if it goes against my nature. My parents are almost desperate because i have never been with a girl. I dont know what to do....
God is not the author of despair and He has good plans for you. Patiently pursue what you feel is blessed by God and be willing to change your mind if you learn a different path or approach is needed to please God. Have hope! Be patient.
Do You have Facebook, I can send you their Facebook page of the parish
There are so many stories of Saints leaving their parents without telling them to become a monk. Pretty Saint Paisios did this himself. Why do they do this? Because the Lord tells us if we love our family more than Him we will not inherit the kingdom
Issues with traditional work as we move towards a digital economy
My heart says monastic life but my brain says that I should try to convert as many people as I can before death and spread the gospel etc, idk what to do, i also have pressure from my father that he wants grandchildren one day
I’m a young Swedish man (19 years old) and I refused to go into military service because my country has betrayed both Christ and the safety of the Swedish people, and I don’t want to be sent out to fight against my Russian brothers in Christ just so that America can spread obesity and degeneracy eastward. Should I reconsider and do the military service anyhow?
Helpful but... definitively another times, there is few professions that are worth the debt acquired, also there are few that are ethically acceptable.
Nowadays it's better to start your own business get some training on that or learn a trade.
Also there is the issue of finding a wife that is not a thot, or as a guy not be a chronic player or incel on the other end.
With endless choice by social media, the idea of finding the one and give total commitment it's very difficult, plus our minds ruined by hypersexualization from young age.
I would love to hear an alive spiritual father talk about this issues.
Seek out a living link to the saints and experienced spiritual guide for advice for your situation.
Read history and you’ll find out that those times were more difficult
There are plenty of nice single women in my parish who aren't thots.
@@OrthodoxWisdom Thanks, yes I have done this. It's a sign of the times, and the conclusion is to work with what you get and have patience not expect a perfect wife.
@@VasilieStojanovski I get it man, I'm saying that culturally things have changed, the struggle was tough for them in different ways it's now.
I have a question.
What is "philotimo"?
See the video description
From which book is this?
See the description
What of the non-monastic single life?
This is popular in rcism but not in pious Orthodox practice. It is even common in old days for the married after their child bearing years to retire to monasteries.
@@OrthodoxChristianTheology But that does not address the question, what of them? They exist equally among the Orthodox as among anyone. Tradition or not. Fathers or not. History or not. Orthodox exist in countries with VERY little monastic tradition. Even in “Orthodox countries,” the ravages of history have left an extremely common reality of single non-monastics. Single non-monastics DO exist. Most do NOT retire to monasteries. Does the Tradition find no avenue for salvation for them?
@@milojames5593 I find answering rhetorical questions unhelpful. To quote the Didache: "There are two ways, one of life and one of death." Pick your way and deal with the consequences.
@@OrthodoxChristianTheology I’m sorry if it appeared rhetorical, brother. But it’s very, very concrete.
What does the Church teach about single non monastics?
I count many of them among my fellow Orthodox friends. (I am married.) They are not living profligate lives, but neither do they fall into one of these twin camps.
If you don’t know the answer, that’s fine.
But, brother, it’s not kind at all to simply brush my question aside as “rhetorical” and therefore you won’t condescend to discuss it.
It is extremely specific and very real for many people, especially in the West.
And I was straight with my question. I’m not trying to bug you or be a jerk. It’s a fair question to press for an answer to of someone who holds himself out as having knowledge.
So, please, at least be good enough to point me to an authority on the source if I don’t qualify for your response.
@@milojames5593 you literally have st paisios commenting on the issue in this video that's your authority
The only two❓
There are exceptions to every rule, but as a rule these are the two paths for those seeking to please Christ.
So in orthodoxy its either marriage or monasticism ?
Sinful to be single, And not be a monk if you're single?
I'm single , not a monk and not married.. why is that state not discussed ?
Woe to me if I let men go between Me and my personal relationship with my Lord Jesus Christ..
Worldly honors ....
I am married!
I am a monk!
Look at me !
Accept me!
Glorify me!
Pityful....
Woe to me if I seek acceptance and glorification from men
It is about our personal relationship with the Lord ,our obedience to his will and aquiring the grace of the holy spirit...
Not about where you live , what your title is...
Priest , monk , married...
None of this matters if you're not right with the Lord
For I have known monks and even priest monks who were very perverse , orthodox...
One bribed my friend for sexual favors and 2 spoke to me sexually
All 3 were orthodox priest monks
1 of them was even an abott of a monastery in Greece and he wore the angelic Schema!
As I understand it, the main reason that these are the two standard paths is that if you live alone how will be obedient to another person, and in that obedience be obedient to Christ? How will you cut off your will? There are certainly situations where people, usually older people, find themselves single and that work with their spiritual father to live a healthy spiritual life. The danger of being single is pride and spiritual delusion. This is of course the danger for anyone but it’s easier to cut down pride when you strive to live in peace with a spouse or monastic brethren. Seek out guidance from your spiritual father.
@@OrthodoxWisdom love God, and your neighbour as yourself .
See Christ within everyone and serve the Christ within everyone, not their sin.
The exalted will be humbled and the humbled will be exalted
I am baptized and Chrismated orthodox
I'm icelandic and live in Iceland
Here is only ONE orthodox priest
Zero bishops
And zero monasteries here
Only one Church and that is a house in the Middle of a street that was turned into a Church
Looks like a normal house on the outside ,except for the metal or Copper cross on the roof
But looks like a Church on the inside
And he has to work double shifts everyday and has spiritual children already and can't take more due to his business.
But I trust in the Lord that he will provide me with a spiritual Father
Until then... I have been and I read the saints everyday and I thank you for your channel for it has brought me great wisdom from the Holy Spirit.
God bless your struggle in Iceland!
Saint paisios if I remember right kept a 12 year old around and too obediences from him because his spiritual father was too far away. We are saved by obediences. The tug to be a hikomori (incel loser watching anime all day) is to avoid salvific obedience which we are better off getting from even a kid from no one at all.
Being unmarried and single one must live like a monastically, therefore it is monasticism.
I don't understand the people who "want to marry" but have no person in mind. How can you say I want to marry but not be in a relationship already? Love an idea? That's plausible. But why agonize if there is no one you already have feelings for? It seems very vain.
Have you ever felt hungry and wanted food, but didn’t care what you ate as long as it satisfied your hunger? 😜
@@chrisobrien6254 you've made my point. If the analogy holds up then almost any woman would do and we are just beasts. If you aren't concerned with marriage, a wife in this case is just a front for a man to get his jollies.
@@theviridiansons nonsense. You’ve confused Disney with scripture, apparently because it sounds like you believe in soulmates. Almost any man or woman WOULD do just fine for almost any woman or man. Marriage is a fight that couples must choose every waking minute. God isn’t going to choose marriage or monastic life for anyone from what the Fathers say. A soulmate would pretty much mean that God has set you apart for marriage with this “soulmate,” which he doesn’t do
@@theskyizblue2day431That is not at all true, and it has nothing to do with 'soulmates'. There is a such thing as compatible personality types and temperaments. God gives us different personality traits and preferences to help lead us to what He calls us to. If his will is monastic life, then there is a specific monastery that is suitable for us above all others. Likewise, if his will is marriage, there is a specific person that is suitable for us above all others. And our own preferences and personality traits were given to help us figure that out.
There are many examples but one I can think of right away is in Tobit. "She was set apart for you, before the world existed" (Tobit 6:18) seems like a pretty clear indication that God wills us to be with a particular person. It doesn't mean they are a 'soulmate', as God alone can fulfill our soul. But it DOES mean He wills us to marry one particular person.
@@lld3007you haven’t read words of the Fathers, have you?
Also, what if you go to marry your other person and they say no? I’m assuming your gonna say wel then it wasn’t by God but now this is getting Disney and you are absolving people of their choices