RP46 Variations: Russian, North Korean, and US Reproduction
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- Опубликовано: 3 июл 2018
- FYI, the Russian kit in this video is currently for sale on GunBroker.
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The RP-46 was the final iteration of the Degtyarev DP27/DPM light machine gun, modified to feed from Maxim/SG43/PK belts instead of pan magazines. As such, it was able to serve the role of a universal machine gun like the MG34 and MG42 until the Soviet Union was able to develop a true purpose-built GPMG in the PK.
Because the RP-46 is a very rare firearm in collectors' hands today, it is not well understood by most. While the top feed adapter is known, many people do not realize that several other elements of the weapon were changed at the same time, including a complete redesign of the gas block. Today we are looking at a Russian-made set of RP-46 parts and also a North Korean set (North Korea adopted the design as the Type 64, with several changes form the Soviet pattern). We will also look at the American-made reproduction RP46 top cover made by SMG Guns of Texas.
The reproduction adapter has several improvements over the originals, while maintaining a very authentic look. Most significantly, it can be used without any permanent modification to a semiautomatic or fully automatic DP/DPM.
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You don't want to be around when a recoil spring loses its temper. They start yelling at everyone, throwing things, breaking dishes...it's a bad scene.
God damit
I was just asking how bad it was.I suspect Wodka had something to do with it.
Totally immature recoil spring.
@@Guillo78 translation says " good lady" 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Ha!! At first I didn't get the joke but after some thought it is pretty damn funny.
Greetings from Russia! You are doing a great work!
Your reviews of russian firearms are more informative than most of our own documentaries.
Plus he tells you all the flaws as well. While Russian documentaries are like : this is a good LMG, better than us ones. This is ak, it's reliable in such a way that it breaks laws of physics. ...also it can penetrate 3 abrams tanks in a row.
@@nikirki25 no, these propaganda stamps is only for brainwashed muricans.
propaganda is for everyone! you get some where ever you live (:
*modern documentaries
To be fair, Ian is a *brilliant* historian; his reviews are more informative than almost anything else out there, regardless of country of origin. He's not a national treasure, he's a global one.
That is probably the coolest belt fed design I've seen so far on this channel. That is quite the conversion
Ian, your "home" content is some of the best you make. The depth is excellent and you're able to go in to considerable detail. More please!
Why does everything post-WW Soviet just _look_ painfully Soviet? Like anyone can look at a gun from then to the end of the Cold War, and be like "yep that's Russian."
Different manufacturing approach
every russian gun in a nutshell: middle firerate, ultra loud sound, high damage and low accuracy
Smacks with Ultra ShKAS and then with NSVT and a KORD
Probably their love for wooden furnishing, I'd say. It's very folksy.
I'd go one further. A lot of being Soviet in general was looking soviet. You needed to not stand out and conform to the memes generated by the state. Anything which contrasted was possibly subversive. If you look at art or clothes or trains or anything from those regimes, they all had to conform to a consistent look, which fit the propaganda model of the state. Simultaneously trying to convey uniformity, modernity, and a simple practical style. "we are making progress together, but not decadent progress. Universal, everyday simple and solid progress."... Weapons and trains were actually key propaganda statements about what the state was doing, so anything associated with them was carefully stylized to fit the image. -- Look up soviet art, and particularly soviet train stations/ trains themselves, and you will see the images that they are pushing. weapons show up a lot in that art- and not evil lend-lease or captured German weapons, but weapons of "the people"....
0:32 bottom right. White Death body pillow??
Yes
I want one
Still not the strangest thing ever put on to a pillow.
You sleep much better when Simo is in guard.
lol of course Ian has that
It's not quite a Rube Goldberg machine - it's no AN-94 -, but as you walk through the belt mechanism step-by-step it is still difficult to visualize this system cycling so quickly as to achieve a useful rate of fire. Guns are fascinating pieces of engineering.
I always find it fascinating how, while one can clearly see how the system works, it is so hard to fathom how it performs all of those functions at such extreme speed.
My only encounter with the Chinese version was unpleasant. It worked very well. Saw a few Russian models in the Horn in the 1970s and they appeared to work very well. A fine example of the Russians continuing evolution of proven designs vs. what Air Vectors would call the Americans jumping on "the next whizzy thing." No reason to reinvent the wheel if the wheel still works.
Can you elaborate on what made the Chinese version unpleasant?
@Taylor Chesal sounds like it lmao
@@xanx3572 Perhaps he was on the receiving end of one.
@@LOVEMUFFIN_official hopefully so
Nice Air Vectors shout out!
It seems like many of the building blocks of the PKM was already there.
This Light Machine Gun is honestly one of my favorites to look in perspective, I love learning histories of the Soviets I mean I love any really ones that are in the Modern age, 1950s, 1900s. Mainly my father inspired into fire arms he used to have the original SOCOM Mini14 where it instead chambers pellets instead of 5.56mm rounds. I love your videos keep up the great work.
Those SMG mods are ridiculously clever designs!
Better that than retooling a whole factory when your country is still struggling to achieve engineering capacity in other fields.
Good work ,Ian,extremely interesting.
Excellent. I opened up Ian Hoggs Encyclopedia of Infantry Weapons of WW2 to have a look at it with the bipod clamp and sure enough he raves about it and mentions the issue with the spring losing its temper (with appropriate joke). He also has a photo of the SG43 that you mentioned in passing. Sure enough...boxy!
Damnit Ian, your content is fascinating but your dulcet tones ease me to sleep. Like Bob Ross with guns. “ Happy little selector lever”
I just checked out the SMG website. It's no longer one that you need to apologize for. They got rid of the 90s Geocities look, and now have a sleek, streamlined website.
Didn't the pan mag hold about 47 rounds?
Sure did...in fact that was the whole reason for the pan...I think Ian might be confusing magazines...or may be citing the "actual" capacity due to wear or misfits...
Probably just accidentally said the wrong thing, considering he also mixed up the world wars.
Yes, 47 rounds. At least mine does. One of the very few goofs I've seen on his channel. He's very good at what he does.
I never leave comments but always like your videos, this was the best video of my most fav gun. Thank you
The wall behind Ian, especially under the picture frame, looks like it's a large sheet of paper glued on the wall.
Like wall paper?
@@redrider7xbilly548 I suppose so
I thought I would watch about 14 minutes and get bored, seeing as this is a 30 minute video. Turns out I was wrong and was completely interested to the very end. Nice job!
Very clever conversion to a belt fed mechanism, with only light or little modification to the original gun. Kudos to the engineer(s)/designer(s) that figured this out.
How very soviet....adjustable gas block tool....is a hammer....
You use a sickle to open it back up
Russian solutions are not the prettyest but very functional and durable.
@@juhomaki-petaja which is why i like the Russian approach to manufacture their weapons: simple, reliable, durable.
The white-balance has been off for a few videos now, that room needs a new light, or the camera a wee bit of a tweak.
that scene setup looks so cool
So this is what NK was developing...
A weapon to surpass Metal Gear!
Metal... Gear?!
Salokin
Still has longer range than their missiles.
They developed a shoulder thing that goes up!!
The unjam-able Soviet MG with a buttstock & beltfed! Yay! I wondered why the USSR or anybody else for that matter didn't try to make a 'tactical general purpose MG' A LA the MG34 anytime during the war?
EDIT: Turns out I was thinking of the SG-43 Goryunov & (which is beltfed & also Un-jam-able) wondering why that was never given a buttstock & bipod & turned into a tactical GPMG.
Hungary tried with KGK ;)
@@nickmitsialis , no. During WW2 they were on a dark side :)
It was post war product born too late for mass production. Quite soon it was replaced by PK.
19:30 that would also improve accuracy as the barrel heats up and "flexes"
.
i think its more for that..... than retaining zero after a barrel swap
I think that the gas block settings actually not in order. There seems to be only one hole (this vertical slot) wich can be moved across the circular channel. The grooves on wich the setting depends are a bit asimetrical (2 is further away from 1 than 3 is) and it works so in '1' position the slot is in the middle of thr channel (open entirely), on '3' is a bit offset (thus a little bit blocked) and on '2' is offset even more (but the other way) giving the smallest amount of gas.
Ah, North Korea keeping up with the times as always!
old times, but atleast its times
The Mad Marxist the regular army already have PKM, they call it “Type-82”
Your people are the least qualified to say that. Used the M1917 until the vietnam war, the ww2 recoiless gun until the Korean war, if you wanted you all be still using the M1 garand etc etc etc. You people still havent switched to metric because its anti american. You yanks are the people that clings to the old until your last dying breath
@@MollyGermek that was because china came in to save them otherwise they would have lost and it's the reason why the US hasn't invaded them since
Soviet belt feed on Independence Day? He knows us too well.
Would a clip on weight for the charging handle help cycle the system? I know it'd make it slower in the beginning, but once it is moving it'd have the energy to pull the belt and strip the round.
Ian, a 28 round magazine? Aren't you sure its a 47 round magazine?
I love your videos keep up the good work
Very informative video, thank you.
Happy 4th to you Iain, from a Maciver in Philthadelphia.
Hey Ian thanks for your videos. If you ever come across a Claridge Hi-Tec 9mm I would love to hear you break down that incredibly interesting piece!
Would you ever be able to do any vids on the F88 Austyer?
it was adopted in it's RP-46 mod after WW2, but originally developed _before_ WW2
Thanls for the vid, hope you have a safe and happy Independence Day
Ian you're the best, sir!
Nice of Simo Hayha to provide a cameo.
The White Death as a Pillow - Seems like Ian has some peculiar Hobbies besides Guns...
omg i'm laughing my ass off here thanks man
Where would you even get a Simo Hayha pillow? Because I want one.
Ah the Bob Evans dinner plate. That is what I call the DP-28. That is pretty neat solution to make a gun belt fed. I'm surprised they didn't just make a bigger magazine first like the saddle drum the Germans used.
okay where did you get that poster behind you. that is super cool and i want one now lol
Can you do a video on the T24? The American copy of MG42 chambered in 30.06
Id be nice to see a 2 gun match of the rp-46 vs the M-60
The 7.62mm RP-46 was actually a pretty crude weapon, but effective as a company-level MG. The 7.62mm SG-43/SGM series of medium machine-gun was a better-made and better company-level machine-gun.
Please please. Ian can you do a video just on the different manufacturing methods.
You should look into a bulpup m1903. It would be a very interesting video and rare if you could find one
thanks for this video
To be completely honest Ian, I only watch your videos for the detent snaps.
0:50 Excuse me Ian, did you mean to say 47 round pan magazine? Where did you get 28 rounds from haha
I could never find any solid numbers, but isn't the pan magazine of the Degtyarov machine gun quite heavy for its capacity, something like 3kg for only 47 rounds compared to about 1kg for a typical 30-round magazine as used on BREN/Type-99. It's only one source that says that but if that's true that's really high, the assistant machine gunner could only carry about 3 spare mags, 141 rounds, for an 8-9kg load. I can guess why they didn't develop a stick magazine (BREN style) because the sights were in line, it would mean displacing the sights off to the side, but machine guns are all about volume of fire and they just can't carry much ammo for a given weight burden.
But then again, a DP-28 with one magazine loaded, and an assistant carrying an 8.7kg reload, that all weighs 20kg and can fire 188 rounds. An RP-46 with a 200 round box magazine weighs 21kg (according to my same source). So you aren't really saving much weight with the RP-46 unless you're using multiple 200-round belts of ammunition. With one machine gunner and two ammo-bearers, the DP28 could fire 329 rounds, while RP-46 could fire 400. Only 21.5% more ammunition.
Who knows how they got BREN gun magazines to work. Though according to the channel Bloke On The Range the rimmed rounds used by the Commonweath forces weren't like other rimmed cartridges, they apparently had a kind of shamfer or ramp on the bottom side of the rim that made it quite easy for rim to slip over rim. BREN had a pretty sweet setup.
With the RP there's also the added inconvenience that there isn't actually any way to attach the belt box to the gun - you'd have to find a spot beside the gun to drop the box and then every time you move the gun you would realistically have to unload it and carry the ammo separately.
It's not like you get nothing, the RP46 would only need to be reloaded every 200 rounds rather than ever 47 rounds, possibly no pauses in fire to reload if belts could be linked together. Machine guns don't need to be constantly moving around, they are about quickly getting to a good position and laying down great firepower to suppress and destroy the enemy, machine guns are perfect for that. All the time a machine gun is moving when in contact with the enemy is time it's not shooting. It needs to be overall quite light to move up into position quickly and effectively enough, but once there it needs to dominate the firefight to allow more mobile elements to exploit that fire suppression.
Generally squads wouldn't try to provide their own suppression fire, one squad (a machine gun and several riflemen) would provide suppressing fire so that another squad may exploit the benefit of that fire to move. It was never really a thing for even the lightest mag-fed machine guns to "i'm going to shoot a bit to suppress them, then quickly dash forward and start shooting again". That was British doctrine early in WW2 but it was quickly abandoned as ineffective with any weapons, you needed something like bounding overwatch where entire squads (if not entire platoons) dedicated to fire suppression and another equivalent element moved.
The smg upgraded gas block seems like it would have problems with corrosive ammo. Tappit systems like the m1 are typically annoying to take apart
@ForgottenWeapons
Ian. At 0:27 you say after World War II. I think you meant after World War I.
the jump from this to a PK is so small. It looks like they took the top cover and built a modern MG under it
it works at first try compared to franken gun design of m60 that needs 50 years to matures.
very nice way to use stockpiles of older guns that will be otherwise only piles of steel...
Maybe in future, Ian could get one of NK helical-mag AKs and give us his insight.
40mm rocket propelled bolter firing VOGs fitted with the shoulder thing that goes up
The pan thing holds 47 not 28. It makes a lot of difference in combat abilities when we talk about a mag-fed LMG)
Only 47 rounds I thought it carried more
@@intelligentgrawlix794 well it's in 7.62 rimmed
Was the DPM and the RP-46 versions used in the Korean war?
Hangul markings :
64 년 식
Read as :
육 십 사 (yubgsibsa) 년 식 (nyeon sig)
That’s such a tiny bore hole in the chopped gas block/barrel section. Is that really .30 cal?
I wonder if you could take the Lewis gun and modify it with a version of the RP46 belt system to make it belt fed
"Light" machine-gun still makes me laugh to this day. :)
Sherman Hovermale I know, I know... but still :)
At 22:15, we found the shoulder thing that flips up!
Очень интересно, спасибо за рассказ
At 0:23 you say the Dp machine gun was developed after WW2. Do you mean after WW1?
Also At 0:55 you mentioned the DP-28 having at "28 round pan magazine". Could have sworn it was 47 but I've never held one.
Hey ian when did you get into old guns
I so fucking love you Ian.
So with the updated SMG gas block, can it be disassembled for cleaning? Otherwise you're going to corrode that thing pretty quick with a diet of surplus ammunition and run into issues US Ordnance avoided by using non-corrosive primers in 30 carbine.
I really should just google this but I don't recall the soviets ever fielding the Dp27 (almost positive it's dp28) but I understand taking for 30 minutes straight is no small task.
0:50 Pretty sure the pan mag held 47 or 64, but definitely not 28.
Soviet soldiers complained that ammo pan riding on top made gun top heavy and awkward to carry
Emma got new belt. Nice
It kinda looks like the Breda 30 light machine gun.
I still like the original dp28 better that spring over the stock though
Was the North Korean part kit from a weapon was brought back with a soldier from Vietnam?
Do any of the machine guns differ in fire rate
I'd imagine if there was any, it would be minimal. Perhaps the American replica would fire ever so slightly faster due to less gas leakage? So the bolt would cycle faster due to the higher energies involved. It wouldn't really be noticeable unless you're doing a *lot* of shooting with each different type.
Thanks
Ian, when are you going to be on Demolition Ranch? You guys could do some awesome informative silliness together!
Ive thought about this a few times and almost asked him for one of his Q&A's in the guise of "what do you think of the firearms channels that shoot and break guns i.e. Demolition Ranch" i dont think Ian supports that type of destruction or dangerous "fun"
How is the muzzle booster modification not considered a suppressor by the ATF?
Because it doesn't reduce the sound made.
When he says the DP-27 and 28 were made just after ww2 does he mean ww1 or is it just a common misconception that the DP-28 was used by Soviets in ww2?
He was talking about the rp 46
Connor Platt The DP was used in the second world war, it's use in Russian military doctrine was present during the winter war in 1939 and while it was partially supplanted during the second world war by tools like the PPD and the continued use of the Maxim reducing the need for both offensive and defensive LMG use, it was still deployed frequently.
He made a mistake. It’s 1928 when it was adopted by the soviets. (After ww1)
The Cynical Boy Thanks for clearing that up, I thought as much but was confused
Ian you needs more hands to make the demo easier.
It looks like a bit with Breda 30 machinegun
I cant express how maddening it is to see these parts destroyed. May the grabbers burn in hell for all eternity.
Looks like RP,DP,DPM = Berthiers now.
Can somebody explain to me in more detail why it is advantageous to have the front sight on the gas block?
It allows you to zero each barrel separately.
With the front sight on the barrel shroud, you can zero one barrel by adjusting the sight. Any secondary or other barrels will be misaligned to the sights. So you will need to know how far off the sights are and in what direction, so you can aim off accordingly.
Front sight on the gas block (Or directly on the barrel) is much better.
Segrient Boar am so sorry still don't understand 😅
I live in uk so never own gun. I hope that bit information help you to understand form were I am coming.
Fair enough mate.
You can own guns in the UK, some of their laws are actually more fair and sensible than we have here in Australia. I warmly encourage any and every citizen in good standing to get one.
I am a shooter, and was a machinegunner.
This problem we are discussing is only a problem for guns with interchangeable barrels, so mostly machineguns. MG's need quick-change barrels because their barrels get very hot in use. It usually takes about 2-3 seconds for a good crew to change barrels between bursts of fire. The other option is water-cooling as was common in WWI, but that is very heavy and cumbersome to carry around.
Instead, we now have air-cooled, quick-change barrels. An MG might come with 1-3 spare barrels depending on the role in which it is to be employed. The other barrels cool after being removed and can be readily reused once cool.
You can view the barrel shroud as part of the MG's 'body' and thus a different component to the barrel.
Also, view the front sight being mounted on the gas block as being mounted directly on the barrel as that is the effect. Other modern MG's do have the front sight mounted directly on the barrel, nearer the muzzle which brings another advantage - longer sight radius, but that is a different subject.
Under the original RP46 arrangement with the front sight mounted on the barrel shroud/body, one can align the fall of shot (Where the bullets land on a target) with the sights, by adjusting the front sight. This process is called 'zeroing'.
If you only had one barrel for the gun, everything is great and there is nothing more to be done or worried about. It is also exactly what one would do with most firearms, rifles, pistols etc. which do not have replaceable barrels.
However having done all this, with an MG, as soon as you swapped out the barrel, putting the spare barrel on, minor manufacturing imperfections/differences, differences in wear and tear etc. between the two barrels would now cause the bullets to land somewhere other than where the sights are aligned at. You would be missing the target when shooting with the new barrel (First barrel still good) even if you did everything right.
So instead under the newer arrangement, with the front sight mounted on the gas block/barrel, you shoot at the target and adjust the front sight so it aligns with the fall of shot like before. Now this barrel is zeroed and like before when you aim and fire at the target, the shots will hit the target.
Then, you remove the No.1 barrel, put the spare barrel on and repeat the process. The second barrel will now be zeroed and when you aim and fire at a target you will hit the target.
Repeat the process for any subsequent barrels and they will all be zeroed. Now it won't matter which barrel is on the gun, whenever you aim at a target you will hit the target. You can now sally forth carrying the gun and all the spare barrels confident in the knowledge that whichever barrel is on the gun the bullets will land where you aim.
This individual zeroing of each barrel cannot be done with the front sight mounted on the barrel shroud/body. Same goes for some MG's that in fact do have the front sight mounted on the barrel, but that front sight is non-adjustable. The American M60 MG is one that comes to mind in this regard (Adjustments are done on the rear sight with the M60- a pain in the arse). So one barrel can be good, and the rest won't be accurate, and the machine gunner will have to remember where to 'aim off' for each barrel. Sub-optimal at best, but a rather poor arrangement really.
In summary,
One front sight mounted on gun body/barrel shroud, which can only ever serve one barrel,
versus
Each barrel having its own front sight, allowing adjustment for each.
Front sight on barrel shroud/body: Can only zero one barrel, and others will be inaccurate.
Front sight mounted on each gas block/barrel: Can zero every barrel so all will be accurate.
In the unlikely event that I was in p position to purchase an RP46 or variant I would likely wait until one was available with the front sight mounted on the gas block or barrel, and would happily pay substantially more for it.
Hope this helps mate.
Segrient Boar if understand you correctly that by having the front sight on the gas block it automatically zero with new barrels without making any adjustments to the front sight. I won't lie still a hard concept to get my head around but I thank you and greatly appreciate the effort you put into answering my question. It's people like you on the Forgotten weapon comment section that make me proud to be a forgotten weapons subscribers. Because everybody here love and enthusiasm for firearms transcend any Prejudice or stereotypes we have of each other.☺
Thanks mate. You have kind of got it.
Having the front sight mounted on the gas block/barrel gives you the capability to zero each barrel. It gives you the capability to adjust the front sight mounted on the barrel, so the sights for each barrel are properly aligned with the fall of shot for that barrel, as each will be slightly different.
Once all barrels are zeroed in this manner, when you change barrels the other barrels will still be zeroed and you won't need to readjust them, unless they have taken a hard blow, like being dropped on concrete or something.
Having a different person do the shooting will also usually result in a misalignment also but there isn't much that can be done about that. Often other members of an MG crew will get an opportunity to shoot the MG at a target and note any differences between their point of aim and the fall of shot so they know where to aim off, but that's about it. They aren't adjusting those sights. The sights are adjusted for the No.1 only.
North Korean Worker Peaseant Red Guards use the DP-28 and RP-46 still.
The way it pulls the cartridge out of the belt reminds me of the PKM.
Idelacio
That’s because the PK and PKM were designed after the RP46
Wait, so ATF not gonna ban the muzzle booster of the SMG RP-46?
Apparently not! They even called it a “silencer like” device in a blog post
The Lord's gun.
This MG is much beter then m60
You talk the talk, do you walk the walk?
Didnt the pan magazines have 47 rounds?
Must admit, I now know where the Russians came up with their RPK74 belt feed adapter ideas....
Rather simplistic design. Not a hammer, it's called a gas control fire adjustment tool.
I knew there wasn't going to be a video about a Russian gun without a hammer being involved at some point to adjust or disassemble it :D.
How the hell did u get hands on original North Korean weapon parts?
dat Simo Häyhä body pillow tho.
“That’s not quite actually it” 😂
What? Why? White balance. Yellow?
opmdevil feels comfy, man.
opmdevil for comfy and cozy late night viewing
That Simo Häyhä pillow is the white balance...
0:22 Originally developed after world war 2?
Started making a sandwich, but didn't realize till first bite it was Ian's fault with all those feed lips.