Most here in Colorado do but always give them a little test, we don’t even use them because these roofers are so half assed and lazy nowadays they just pull right out, would not trust my life with them.
@@kramnull8962 its probably why there are so many nail holes in the anchor he has, but only used 6 of them, i would assume that many nails would be so far past overkill you could use the thing 15 years later, theres also a simple solution to using an unsafe anchor due to age- Put date installed on it, either waterproof tearproof sticker or some other way
Nope. This is exactly how every good company does a maintenance wash down or repairs. Don't comment on things you know absolutely nothing about because it makes you look extremely stupid
Your both the kinds of idiots that pay shit tons of money because you think your getting a better job and all you get is high priced shit because you know nothing and think you know more than the professionals. Companies see you idiots coming and tend to charge more because they know you have no clue and are going to waste tons of there time or you will get scammed because they see you think you know everything and play you till you spend double or even triple what the job costs. Clearly there is a reason your not roofing and its because you know absolutely nothing about how to roof, do repairs or softwash because it gets done exactly that way thousands of times a week in every state without needing repairs.
The customer asked that he wore a harness therefore he had to place the anchoring point. Aswell as noting that he mentioned silicone over the holes he made for the anchor point.
@@Farmkid02 exactly, plus once he replaces the ridge piece he pulled those holes will not only be siliconed but they will be fully covered up. Finally someone with some common sense and the ability to listen.
I'm sure that's what he intended on using, some people refer to anything in a tube as caulk or silicone even though caulk ≠ silicone ≠ tar/roof compound ≠ adhesive
@ohnij3d221 Not a stud, that's in a wall. He nailed into a truss, aka the rafter assembly that makes the pitch, which is below the plywood. Looks like a pretty nice cookie cutter neighborhood, recent construction, so those houses shouldn't be older than 15-20, though I'd guess closer to
@ryanm7832 no he completely missed the structure you can tell how easy the nails went in. Does not matter how steep the roof is. Either install your fall arrest system properly or don't use it at all. Trying to explain to me that rafters are under the plywood? No fucking shit and he missed them with his nails. I've been roofing for over 20 years..... take your arm chair bullshit else where could care less the age of those houses....
I usually use my hammer to find a truss to nail into,proceeds to nail right into plywood 🤔🤔 the anchors gonna hit u in the head when you hit the ground
As a roofer that's used a harness more than I'd like to admit you clearly know nothing about using a rope and harness because he would hit the end of the rope and hang then hit the ground if he didn't mount the anchor correctly. Don't comment on subjects if you know nothing at all about them because it makes you look really dumb like you just did
Haha, love these 'how NOT to do a job' videos. Probably couldn't do more stuff wrong if you tried, If you do the exact opposite of what he does you will be close to the mark. When you hit the ground try and dodge the anchor point following you as it will hurt hitting you in the head.
@@DavidLinn Get trained on how to instal roof anchors would be a great start, there a courses, any anchor needs to be load tested and certified by a qualified tester with a testing tag attached prior to use, I can guarantee that 6 nails are not going to pass, it would be more like 12 or 16mm bolts with backing plates around load bearing beams, then after all that may be learn how to use the equipment instead of attaching the fall arrest system the wrong way around to prevent it from working. 🤣
@@MikesManCavek sure but that would take more time then the whole job would so if he feels that that is safe enough and he doesn’t feel like it’s to steep then who cares he got the job done the same way he would of if he spent all that time doing what you said makes no sense in doing extra work for nothing work smarter not harder buddy😂
@@DavidLinn Well, they often press instructions directly into the plates on the anchor. There's a reason why they have holes all the way down to the bottom, and why they are a solid foot long on each side. Furthermore, if you actually mean to benefit from the anchor, you should test it with a test load, which is a procedure that you can find well documented.
@@TheRiberas Haha OK, I like doing my work safely and go home at the end of the day. He will be the first to cry when he falls off and the equipment fails because he used it incorrectly and because he cut corners and wasn't properly trained to do the job. That's if he is not dead. Safe work practices in the western world exist for a reason, learning how to use your gear correctly beats dying on the job or spending the rest of your life in a wheel chair shitting into a bag any day. If you are going to do a job learn how to do it right, if you are going to use safety equipment learn how to use it correctly.
As a 3 story fall survivor, please always use a harness. The fall really messed me up and I’m only 23…but the mental trauma it caused is pretty rough. 9 months in and the nightmare are still relentless and the zoning out and thinking about it and having silent panic attacks are very real and quite often. I pray you never fall but if you do I pray you’re strapped in.
Safety is #1. Don’t be casual with your own safety and instead blame it on customer service. You’re the only one that’s gonna look out for your own neck if you break it.
@@NigelThornbery because this dude has never climbed a ladder before and decided to be a sheep and go with all the other ignorant commenters to try and get likes.
You should never remove any part of the ridge cap. Place an anchor flushed up to the bottom of the ridge cap (the highest row of shingles) and find the closest rafter by tapping with a hammer. Then, drill your holes into the rafter for your specific type of anchor and make sure to pry underneath the shingle lines that you drilled into and use silicone and step flashing to seal the penetration(s). How this kid is doing it will do significant damage over time to the roof as well as compromising the structural integrity of the ridge cap.
@@bobcat2840 more like a 60 percent chance he would break a leg, neck, shatter his arms or wrists, break his back, bruise internal organs, etc etc. You have watched too many parkour videos where guys plan to jump off high objects and know how to land, where he would probably fall uncontrolled and not be able to roll out and brush the grass stains off. Plus, since he's tied off, there's a good chance he would rely on the anchor and trust it to hold him, and then when it pops off, it would release him suddenly, and he would be tangled in the rope and less able to move to attempt parkour.
@JimTheKid Depending on your inspector, that's a $29,400 fine (possibly more if they pursue side items like improper training) if he decides to pursue it to the full extent. most installers don't make 60k a year. And that's just what's in the video, let alone if they inspected the whole site
@@toxictator4561OSHA regulations require that all those nails holes be used. Secondly, you never know what kind of condition the wood is underneath the shingles unless you look or have that amount of experience to hear and feel yhe difference.
I wouldn’t ever say don’t tie off. Anything can happen, a bird hits you, maybe you stand up and get the spins, maybe someone is clowning around 200 yards away and you get hit with a golf ball Happy Gilmore style. Tying off is accounting for everything, but it’s wholesome to hear your customer was concerned and educated enough to ask you to tie off. Those are high quality people.
My fall arrester has a rip stitch pack that says right on it that it must be attached directly to the rear loop on the harness, so when I saw his attached to the roof anchor I came here to make the same comment. Lol
@@jdawg2003he doesn't have the harness fully secured there is only one buckle clipped and the d ring on the back needs to be adjusted to between his shoulder blades
@jdawg2003 you don't use shock absorbers on fall restraint. And you can't use on slope. Sala block would be best as it retracts automatically. I've been using 4point harnesses for 15 years Most ppl commenting are absolutely incorrect.
Theres a lot wrong here. But use roof rated sealer is typically black and can come in a tube or paint bucket. Lets at leat make sure theur roof isn't going to leak and lose shingles
@@meathoxaSince he says the customer said he'd feel better if he wore one I think the customer had the guy's safety in mind. However, it is good practice to make sure people who work on your house are working safely amd following their protocols. You do get some guy who want to cut corners because if something happens they can sue the customer.
Every brand of safety gear I've ever been trained on say do not use screws because they are not shear rated like nails. Clearly you don't care to do it the right way because if an Osha or other inspector sees screws on your safety anchor you will get fined and or kicked off the job. Advice from a 25 year third generation roofer if you care about your life follow anchor instructions or you won't be able to go after the manufacturer if it does let loose and cause you injury. if it's installed improperly, it's not the anchors fault it's yours. Pretty stupid
@@gerrittklashorst7306it ain’t the 80s anymore fella you can get whatever screws you want. And that little anchor probably ain’t gonna stop that guy from hitting the floor but it does look the part from the ground
@@gerrittklashorst7306hey buddy. Werner supplies screws for its fall protection kits. They are more than adequate when used correctly to stop a ~200lb human from falling.
I volunteered shingling a stranger's house once (literally just walked by and asked to help)...and _that_ didn't seem too difficult...so I'm presuming by your comment there are some pretty boneheaded mistakes I don't know I could've made (note, I was supervised)?
@@oddlyspecificmath difficulty isn't the issue here. I should clarify that we have done roof work in the past as a family, and that it's a general rule. He stressed that steep roofs are a nogo as well as ones that are two stories or more for obvious reasons. He knew a guy who was working on his 45°, two story roof without help or adequate safety equipment. Healthy guy in his 40's reduced to a wheelchair and paralysis from the neck down for the rest of his long life.
I'm a bit confused...what kind of Play-Doh brained nitwit washes their roof shingles? Or, is this an HOA thing? And if that is the case, what kind of Play-Doh brained nitwit lets their HOA strongarm them into washing their roof shingles? (And a follow-up question...is the atmosphere recycler who washed this shingle roof related to someone on the HOA?)
Only play doh brain is you brotha. Roof and house washing is a multimillion dollar market. I've washed many roofs and made lots of money. Why wash $50k car and not your $500k house? 🤯
Correct me if im wrong but doesnt he also have his lanyard on backwards isnt the shock absorber supposed to be attatched to the d ring on the back of your harness
No it is your own safety. As someone wo works withe arborists (ground crew) I know that damage to property is better than damage to yourself or others.
For those saying the harness is installed backwards you are wrong. The shock strap gets applied at the peak, then it's up to you to take the slack out of the rope at the point on your back that reaches the hand carabiner. But that won't do him any good since his leg straps were not on. But anything under an 8 slope is walkable.
U can and definitely should wash asphalt shingles. But there’s a proper way to do it and it should never be done by anyone other than a licensed and insured professional. Not the $300.00 roof cleaner. That’s a huge red flag. Roof washes start at $500.00 minimum. Even if it’s a 1,200 sqft house. If they don’t know that already then they are not qualified to do the job
There’s alot of liability involved and the contractor assumes all of it. Unlike the $300.00 guy. Who isn’t properly insured or properly trained and in that case the home owner assumes all liability
Hey if you fall it’s not going to work properly. The shock absorber should be clipped to your D ring so it removes the force at your body and not at the roof
That’s a roofers rig, you have a device attached to you that you run the line through that allows you to ascend and descend without having other persons on top of the roof having to belay a worker.
Nice to know a customer was concerned about your safety. I suppose it is the US, otherwise known as “The Lang Of Sue Anyone For Anything.” so they were likely concerned you would sue them if you fell off.
Umm that roofs warranty just got dumped and you definitely created a leak. And also . Roof washing is a waste of money and will kill the duration of which the roof will last. The minute you brush or scrub a shingle the rock texture breaks away exposing tar . Which when it’s 150° up there will melt and expose your fiberglass. I highly recommend never ha ing this treatment done unless you want a new roof a few years after . Also when a shingle is that tierd and beat you definitely dont want to be walking on them. Wet or dry. Nails can push thru shingles can crack . Moss and other algae’s on your roof will not hurt that much . I may be a eye sore . But at that point it’s probablyready for replacement anyway. If you remove these things on them you take away the granular rock they cling too . Good luck man and just know when you do this service your robbing people
You got it all wrong. Sure pressure washing or scrubbing a roof is bad. But a proper soft wash treatment actually extends the life. The algae (Gloeocapsa Magma) on shingle roofs eats away at a component of shingle roofs (the limestone). So removing this algae actually prevents granule loss.
A experienced an knowledgeable contractor can tell you this. Sorry you got screwed in the past lol. It’s probably true though about what you said about him causing a leak but I don’t know anything about roofing..
Yeah this does cause leaks , I understand what you do and great, but use mastic but they do make ridge holders where you don't have to nail or screw in but if you do have to that's where you would use the mastic once you take up those points. If you need that info, send me a message so I can send you the links
Bro i wish i had the balls to roof im in prime shape and strength but climbing down ladders has me sweat and shake idk got up and helped my dad re shingle our garage and shed combo and after every day of hard ass work coming off the ladder would take me 10 mins idk whats wrong with me lol
@@thecrazybirdboyck301 yeah I feel that, honestly there's a few ladders that just suck going on even at 10ft. A good strong ladder always helps, proper safety equipment helps and eventually like "J-mac" said you'll give yourself that fuck it mentality. Also anything over a 8or9/12 pitch roof you have to get safety equipment like harnessing. That's just a stupid steep pitch and anything above that is a no without that equipment.
I can perfectly understand that home owner: my ex was in construction. “Was”, because one day he went to re-do a roof and fell off. 20-drop, concrete floor. He broke his back, spent six months in intensive care, one of those in an induced coma, and four more months in ‘regular’ care. He was then transferred to a care facility because he needs too much care to live anyplace else. I’m talking bedsores, stoma bag, regularly flaring up infections of MRSA, brain damage, the works. Doctors say the only reason he survived at all is that he was strong as an ox. They still had to bring him back multiple times. Wear that harness. Install those nets. It’s worth the time if you see the shell of the man he used to be. (For those wondering, no, his fall isn’t the reason we broke up. He wasn’t a law-abiding kind of man and an alcoholic).
how do you think the shingles got on? its like putting a lid on tupperware, when its placed properly it creates a seal, removing and replacing the seal doesnt change that, how can you lack this basic amount of critical thinking skills?
@@UMadUCauseBad are you trained by that shingle companies to put it on correctly. The install team installs to warranty standard. When you go and remove it it voids that warranty. Been in the contracting industry for 10 years specializing in roofs! Platinum Preferred contractor for Owens Corning. What he did voids the warranty and can cause the roof system to fail before it’s time.
@@fliksr3727 lol thats a crazy story, i doubt 75% of the roofs put up to that "standard" are actually up to code, maybe if you worked doing this for 10 years, youd have advocated for anchors to be normal installs. They clearly exist for a reason, and warranty or not, gl proving it, obv this was video taped, and also he got consent, so maybe the contractors or installers should have explained this better, either way i couldnt give any more fks than right now.
U know u touch it u own it....unless u are a certified Roofer dont touch it. It can cost....insurance will pay us 400 per man hour to go fix thongs up.
The guy putting on a harness just because the customer said so is a chad move 😊 it’s also safer but he’s the professional so he knows what he can handle
Good idea. I have tied off to something on both sides of the house on the ground with a climbing line that gives me enough slack to move around. Use a friction knot like a prusic and work off of opposite ends while up there. I even tied off to my truck that I parked in the driveway
A friend of mine wanted to redo the roof of his garage/ barn with corrugated steel. That can be kind of hard to keep your footing on and he wasn't sure how to do it safely as this was before many people were even using cap protection so he didn't have access to any of the gear needed. Well i was a rock climber. So i went to the upper floor in the barn, it wasn't a hay loft, but not a proper upstairs floor either. There was a window on each so i sized a 4x4 across each open window. Then i tied a line on one end, ran it out the window, across the roof, and tied it to the 4x4 in the other window. Then i just tied a boline knot in the end of another rope, clipped a carabiner to it, and clipped that to the fixed rope to allow side to side movement. I put him into a rappelling harness with a descender connected to the perpendicular line and he was able to use that to control the up and down limits. This way not only would any fall be arrested, but he didn't need roof Jack's and planks to stand on like when doing asphalt shingles. All he had to do to do the other side was move the layers line to the other side of the peak. Rope protector kept the sheet steel from cutting my rope. All in all it worked perfectly for him. May not be osha approved, but it was his own property and paths can suck it lol
My grandpa (not a professional) fell off a roof cleaning off snow 20 years ago. He was pronounced brain dead and my mother had to say goodbye 6 months pregnant with me. Trust me when I say that your life is worth more than anything else and safety is key. Your family would much rather see you alive than anything else.
I tied off to my truck bumper. I always made sure my truck was on the opposite side of the roof slope I was working on. I was on a 2 story high garage.
it would be a good idea to put a zinc strip on the top ridge, the zinc will kill any moss, from growing in the future, then you don't need to spray ANYMORE POISON ON THR ROOF
Safety is number 1 especially when working in high places like that. It’s better to be safe. I tell my employees this all the time that safety is more important
as a roofer myself, don’t use silicone on asphalt shingles like the ones in the video. it will eat away at the material and eventually cause a leak in the long run. use roofing cement (tar) or also commonly referred to as Mastic
Buddy, I was a roofer for 27 years before I took a, “ya-hooo”, fall, 30’ to my back. I burst fractured my t-10,11, and 12th thoracic vertebrae, broke every rib, on my left backside, and collapsed lung. I was instantly paralyzed, from my waist down, and today, I’m alive, but I’m still a complete paraplegic. I wasn’t tied off, because, it was, “This will take a second”, I only had to tap in some lead into a rigger joint to hold some chimney flashing in and then put a nice bead of Vulkem limestone caulking. It was a nice, hot, beautiful, 4th of July morning, 10:30am, 85 degrees, 2010. The owner had the final payment check,($1650) as so as I finished the 10 minute left, to complete the previously mentioned work. I was on my 40’ heavy duty aluminum ladder, and had it fully extended. I could of had my usual helper to at least foot my ladder for $50 bucks, but… “this will only take me a second…” Please be careful young man and may the good Lord alway be your daily strength; spiritually, mentally, and physically.
I used to own a roof cleaning business. You just sling a 150’ static rope over the top of the roof, tie down to trees or posts on the ground, and put a butterfly knot at the peak
I used to fly trusses and sheet roofs and we never used harnesses unless there was a really extreme pitch, which you usually don't find in Florida since there's no snow. I will admit though, there are plenty of times I wish we had set up a harness as I myself have fallen several times and so has everyone else I worked with. It's just kinda a fact of life when you do that type of work and you just hope you don't land wrong lmao 🤣
OSHA requires I believe 6 nails on each side. Might be wrong it's been years but as someone else said, 3 nails on both side is not enough. He is required to use a harness when working over x feet around 2 stories though.
You upsell, install the anchor and paint them dark grey and brown, which blends in. If it's a retired client, tell them to get matching paint and hand them the re.oved shingle. If they asked for you to use a harness, they will only ever use you because not only so you have the anchors you install them for all the other workers that go up there. Usually HVAC. I paid $6 per single anchor and 18 for the ridge you have. Two singles look better than a ridge, which needs a cover. Singles allow you to place where they're needed. Front and back rarely have the same ideal anchor location
The shock absorbing lanyard attaches to you not your anchor point. The force starts at you and travels up the rope, think of whipping a rope, and how the energy starts at you and moves down the rope. the wrapped up part attaches right to your harness. Also make sure that attachment point on your harness is all the way up between your shoulder blades, should be pretty tight up top but not as tight as you’d imagine around your pelvis. It may have been, just looked a little low. Also don’t know what everyone is talking ab with the whole 3 nails thing, 6-8 nails is pretty standard for anchors at our company and the safety audits seem pretty ok with that as well. the “extra” holes are there for positioning, there’s not always something behind those top 3 holes. It’s all dependent, sometimes you need more but I regularly anchor with 4 bolts.
In the uk people tend to just use scaffolding and long reach poles with foot pedals. Sid at partridge exterior cleaning on here does it, and it looks like it’s a safer option, especially with older weaker roofs. And American roofs do not look as strong as British ones
I've never tied myself off to a roof but I have tied three consecutive ladders side-by-side going down a roof hung on by one ridge hook to reach the bottom of the roof near a dormer
I can confidently say that 0% of all roofers I've seen are clipped in. It's funny but some wear harnesses clipped to nothing but most don't even do that. Safety third!
As a roofer for the last 28 years I applaud your safety consciousness, falling is no joke. NOW... Look up a roof anchor called a Double D or a Single D ring. These are meant to be cheap enough to be installed and left on the roof as a permanent anchor. Simply place it on the ridge as you do that monster anchor, caulk the nail holes and put the ridge back on over it. Leave it in place and badda bing! You now have an attachment point for the next time you come back. You are creating repeat customers? Right? Your welcome...
When I worked installing satellite dishes we used to tie our ladders off to the gutters using zip ties lol. Been on thousands of roofs. never needed to tie off. Just wear non slips
Be sure to follow the direction - install a nail in every hole to provide the strength the anchor needs. Anchors should be rated for 5,000 lbs. There are many theories as to where OSHA got the 5,000 lbs from. But the most popular is a 220 lbs (100 kg) can reach forces of 2500 lbs from a 6 foot fall. Thus doubling the number will ensure all users are covered. But, you gotta use it right.
I feel like all roofs should be built with an anchor point for service people.
Most here in Colorado do but always give them a little test, we don’t even use them because these roofers are so half assed and lazy nowadays they just pull right out, would not trust my life with them.
@@Luv4flth Fresh nails are always safer than 10 year old nailing.
@@Luv4flth hey colorado
Thats stupid. No one is putting a roof on with a rope wrapped around them
@@kramnull8962 its probably why there are so many nail holes in the anchor he has, but only used 6 of them, i would assume that many nails would be so far past overkill you could use the thing 15 years later, theres also a simple solution to using an unsafe anchor due to age- Put date installed on it, either waterproof tearproof sticker or some other way
Went in for a roof wash came out needing roof repair repair
Nope. This is exactly how every good company does a maintenance wash down or repairs. Don't comment on things you know absolutely nothing about because it makes you look extremely stupid
Ya like.. if I saw that I would yell from the ground “yo, the hell you doing!?”
Your both the kinds of idiots that pay shit tons of money because you think your getting a better job and all you get is high priced shit because you know nothing and think you know more than the professionals. Companies see you idiots coming and tend to charge more because they know you have no clue and are going to waste tons of there time or you will get scammed because they see you think you know everything and play you till you spend double or even triple what the job costs. Clearly there is a reason your not roofing and its because you know absolutely nothing about how to roof, do repairs or softwash because it gets done exactly that way thousands of times a week in every state without needing repairs.
The customer asked that he wore a harness therefore he had to place the anchoring point. Aswell as noting that he mentioned silicone over the holes he made for the anchor point.
@@Farmkid02 exactly, plus once he replaces the ridge piece he pulled those holes will not only be siliconed but they will be fully covered up. Finally someone with some common sense and the ability to listen.
Also silicone and asphalt don’t mix. Use tar
Yup; came here to say this. Use the right product.
I also just commented the same thing. Lol
I'm sure that's what he intended on using, some people refer to anything in a tube as caulk or silicone even though caulk ≠ silicone ≠ tar/roof compound ≠ adhesive
Solar seal or quad over some junk roof tar lma😅😅😅
Or a water based coating mixture
Right on as a roofer I appreciate you ruining the warranty on the roof also learn how to use your rope and harness properly
How would he properly use his rope? Just curious
@@chefr6210around his neck, and a counter weight on the other side of the house, duh
What kind of roof cap shingles were those? Never seen anything like it before.
@@cron410 8 " high profile dimensional roof cap most are 10"
@@chakazuluxmas4054 thanks!
He’s… said I put 3 nails on each side because I think that’s all i need😂… learn your safety first.
3 nails on each side would be enough.....if he actually put them into a stud not just plywood 😂
@@ohnij3d221 Screws would have done less damage and easier to remove.
@@135Opsyou’re joking right..
@ohnij3d221 Not a stud, that's in a wall. He nailed into a truss, aka the rafter assembly that makes the pitch, which is below the plywood. Looks like a pretty nice cookie cutter neighborhood, recent construction, so those houses shouldn't be older than 15-20, though I'd guess closer to
@ryanm7832 no he completely missed the structure you can tell how easy the nails went in. Does not matter how steep the roof is. Either install your fall arrest system properly or don't use it at all.
Trying to explain to me that rafters are under the plywood? No fucking shit and he missed them with his nails. I've been roofing for over 20 years..... take your arm chair bullshit else where could care less the age of those houses....
I usually use my hammer to find a truss to nail into,proceeds to nail right into plywood 🤔🤔 the anchors gonna hit u in the head when you hit the ground
😂damn this comment made my day. Funny as hell
@weekendwarrior7117 glad I could help
As a roofer that's used a harness more than I'd like to admit you clearly know nothing about using a rope and harness because he would hit the end of the rope and hang then hit the ground if he didn't mount the anchor correctly. Don't comment on subjects if you know nothing at all about them because it makes you look really dumb like you just did
It’s the peak of the roof. Perhaps you should look up wood frame construction. He’s nailing into solid wood, which is under the sheathing.
It’s called the Apex, btw. Where the rafters tie into at the peak.
Haha, love these 'how NOT to do a job' videos. Probably couldn't do more stuff wrong if you tried, If you do the exact opposite of what he does you will be close to the mark. When you hit the ground try and dodge the anchor point following you as it will hurt hitting you in the head.
ok, now that you've said he did everything wrong, what is the correct way to do it?
@@DavidLinn Get trained on how to instal roof anchors would be a great start, there a courses, any anchor needs to be load tested and certified by a qualified tester with a testing tag attached prior to use, I can guarantee that 6 nails are not going to pass, it would be more like 12 or 16mm bolts with backing plates around load bearing beams, then after all that may be learn how to use the equipment instead of attaching the fall arrest system the wrong way around to prevent it from working. 🤣
@@MikesManCavek sure but that would take more time then the whole job would so if he feels that that is safe enough and he doesn’t feel like it’s to steep then who cares he got the job done the same way he would of if he spent all that time doing what you said makes no sense in doing extra work for nothing work smarter not harder buddy😂
@@DavidLinn Well, they often press instructions directly into the plates on the anchor. There's a reason why they have holes all the way down to the bottom, and why they are a solid foot long on each side.
Furthermore, if you actually mean to benefit from the anchor, you should test it with a test load, which is a procedure that you can find well documented.
@@TheRiberas Haha OK, I like doing my work safely and go home at the end of the day. He will be the first to cry when he falls off and the equipment fails because he used it incorrectly and because he cut corners and wasn't properly trained to do the job. That's if he is not dead. Safe work practices in the western world exist for a reason, learning how to use your gear correctly beats dying on the job or spending the rest of your life in a wheel chair shitting into a bag any day. If you are going to do a job learn how to do it right, if you are going to use safety equipment learn how to use it correctly.
Make sure you tell your customers you are removing tiles and making holes before you start.
Yup. I'd be livid if some kid started prying up and removing shingles on my roof...water damage in a house is ALWAYS expensive.
As a 3 story fall survivor, please always use a harness. The fall really messed me up and I’m only 23…but the mental trauma it caused is pretty rough. 9 months in and the nightmare are still relentless and the zoning out and thinking about it and having silent panic attacks are very real and quite often. I pray you never fall but if you do I pray you’re strapped in.
Hope you can get past this. Sorry to hear but you are lucky to be alive
This is awful. Wishing you well, mentally and physically.
sounds like you need to man up
@@chanktx9447 you’re the problem with society.
@@chanktx9447
Safety is #1. Don’t be casual with your own safety and instead blame it on customer service. You’re the only one that’s gonna look out for your own neck if you break it.
Thank you! He acted little the customer was so difficult by not wanting to watch him potentially die 🙄
Either the comments are full of roofing experts or this guy is professionally trolling and yall fell for it 😂
Homeowner watching this video kicking his own ass 😂
Why?
@@NigelThornbery because this dude has never climbed a ladder before and decided to be a sheep and go with all the other ignorant commenters to try and get likes.
@@NigelThornberythis guy in the video is clueless that’s why
You should never remove any part of the ridge cap. Place an anchor flushed up to the bottom of the ridge cap (the highest row of shingles) and find the closest rafter by tapping with a hammer. Then, drill your holes into the rafter for your specific type of anchor and make sure to pry underneath the shingle lines that you drilled into and use silicone and step flashing to seal the penetration(s). How this kid is doing it will do significant damage over time to the roof as well as compromising the structural integrity of the ridge cap.
dont waste ur time, this dumb kid is worrying about making money, not doing the job right
You don't use silicone to patch a roofs hole. You use liquid cement.
Good thing they provided all those EXTRA nail holes...
If you understand about shock loading you would not trust your life to 3 nails lol
Let’s be real looked like he was on a one story house surrounded by thick green grass if he did fall 90% chance he would be fine anyway lol
@@bobcat2840there probably a lot of dead or paralyzed people who thought the same way. There’s a reason osha enforces protection at 6’.
@@nschott13 10%
@@bobcat2840 more like a 60 percent chance he would break a leg, neck, shatter his arms or wrists, break his back, bruise internal organs, etc etc.
You have watched too many parkour videos where guys plan to jump off high objects and know how to land, where he would probably fall uncontrolled and not be able to roll out and brush the grass stains off.
Plus, since he's tied off, there's a good chance he would rely on the anchor and trust it to hold him, and then when it pops off, it would release him suddenly, and he would be tangled in the rope and less able to move to attempt parkour.
@@ke6gwf 12%
Installed the anchor wrong then put the wrong end of the rope in wrong.
That fine would be probably half that persons annual wage if caught 😂
I highly doubt that
@JimTheKid Depending on your inspector, that's a $29,400 fine (possibly more if they pursue side items like improper training) if he decides to pursue it to the full extent. most installers don't make 60k a year.
And that's just what's in the video, let alone if they inspected the whole site
@@RoofingFacts you are right but judging by the content of the video and the user name it seems like he is operating a softwash/pressure wash business
@JimTheKid Which means..... if he's an employee he's still subject to the same safety laws/codes
@@RoofingFactsbaarow, ain’t no one calling osha on this dude. Stfu.
"I only used 3 nails each side because that's all I felt I needed" *Falls and dies* 🤣
16 penny nails have a shear of 135 pounds . 135 x 6 ... He is more then safe .
@@toxictator4561 Wow! You must be the joker of your friend group 🤣
@@redacted7634 You don't have to believe it for it to be true . 😁
@@toxictator4561 wtf are you chatting? 🤣 My original comment was a joke.. A joke that went wayy over your simple head! 🤣🤣
@@toxictator4561OSHA regulations require that all those nails holes be used.
Secondly, you never know what kind of condition the wood is underneath the shingles unless you look or have that amount of experience to hear and feel yhe difference.
I wouldn’t ever say don’t tie off. Anything can happen, a bird hits you, maybe you stand up and get the spins, maybe someone is clowning around 200 yards away and you get hit with a golf ball Happy Gilmore style. Tying off is accounting for everything, but it’s wholesome to hear your customer was concerned and educated enough to ask you to tie off. Those are high quality people.
You never been on a roof, huh?
You really could not have done this more wrong 😂
Truest words ever; "In this industry, its all about catering to the customers needs and making sure they are satisfied".
"I only put three nails in each side, because that's all I felt I needed" *OSHA has entered the chat*
You attached the wrong end of the rope to the roof anchor. That part goes on the harness you wear.
My fall arrester has a rip stitch pack that says right on it that it must be attached directly to the rear loop on the harness, so when I saw his attached to the roof anchor I came here to make the same comment. Lol
No he didnt...
@@jdawg2003he doesn't have the harness fully secured there is only one buckle clipped and the d ring on the back needs to be adjusted to between his shoulder blades
@jdawg2003 you don't use shock absorbers on fall restraint. And you can't use on slope. Sala block would be best as it retracts automatically. I've been using 4point harnesses for 15 years
Most ppl commenting are absolutely incorrect.
He definitely attached it correctly
As a fall arrest inspector, the condition of his lanyard gives me great satisfaction
Theres a lot wrong here. But use roof rated sealer is typically black and can come in a tube or paint bucket. Lets at leat make sure theur roof isn't going to leak and lose shingles
"We need you to wear a harness so we dont get sued later if you fall." -America.
Did you think you did something there?
Or maybe he don’t want people falling off of his roof and die in front of him.
Try assuming the best about people..
@@meathoxaSince he says the customer said he'd feel better if he wore one I think the customer had the guy's safety in mind.
However, it is good practice to make sure people who work on your house are working safely amd following their protocols. You do get some guy who want to cut corners because if something happens they can sue the customer.
Thats literally how it is here in Europe as well
Safer to park a vehicle on the opposite side. Keep the keys with you on the roof and tie off to the wheel.
What does having the keys on you change?
@@astrokace5780helps add weight so gravity helps, duh
@@astrokace5780 so some dummy doesn't dive off while you're roped to the car wheel
Use like 2 1/2 inch or 3” screws instead of nails. Easy to take back out. Been roofing for 20+ years. Just a easy hack. Try it out 😊
Every brand of safety gear I've ever been trained on say do not use screws because they are not shear rated like nails. Clearly you don't care to do it the right way because if an Osha or other inspector sees screws on your safety anchor you will get fined and or kicked off the job. Advice from a 25 year third generation roofer if you care about your life follow anchor instructions or you won't be able to go after the manufacturer if it does let loose and cause you injury. if it's installed improperly, it's not the anchors fault it's yours. Pretty stupid
@@gerrittklashorst7306 33 year roofer here! I don’t even use ropes but when I do I use screws because it’s just for show. Fuck osha
@@gerrittklashorst7306it ain’t the 80s anymore fella you can get whatever screws you want. And that little anchor probably ain’t gonna stop that guy from hitting the floor but it does look the part from the ground
@@gerrittklashorst7306hey buddy. Werner supplies screws for its fall protection kits. They are more than adequate when used correctly to stop a ~200lb human from falling.
Some want nailed some want screwed. Either way, shit goes bad we are all screwed.
More of this pls starting a career in climbing (wind turbine tech rn) and I'm just starting this + Exp = success 🙌
Tip, don't follow any working at heights safety this guy says
That’s a great customer if they’re thinking about your safety, that much, most customers don’t give a crap about your safety.
My dad is a handyman and isn't afraid to learn new skills, but he always says to never do your own roofing work.
I volunteered shingling a stranger's house once (literally just walked by and asked to help)...and _that_ didn't seem too difficult...so I'm presuming by your comment there are some pretty boneheaded mistakes I don't know I could've made (note, I was supervised)?
@@oddlyspecificmath difficulty isn't the issue here. I should clarify that we have done roof work in the past as a family, and that it's a general rule.
He stressed that steep roofs are a nogo as well as ones that are two stories or more for obvious reasons. He knew a guy who was working on his 45°, two story roof without help or adequate safety equipment. Healthy guy in his 40's reduced to a wheelchair and paralysis from the neck down for the rest of his long life.
Got it; I understand the distinction now. The roof I was on was 1 story and not at all steep, which is probably why it was easy to volunteer.
Dont go tugging on my shingles like that 😂😂😂
go clean your roof yourself then
I just went through a Roco fall pro class for work! This is dope! The equipment that is out there is super cool!
I'm a bit confused...what kind of Play-Doh brained nitwit washes their roof shingles? Or, is this an HOA thing? And if that is the case, what kind of Play-Doh brained nitwit lets their HOA strongarm them into washing their roof shingles? (And a follow-up question...is the atmosphere recycler who washed this shingle roof related to someone on the HOA?)
Only play doh brain is you brotha. Roof and house washing is a multimillion dollar market. I've washed many roofs and made lots of money. Why wash $50k car and not your $500k house? 🤯
Safety first bro 😅 If you get in the habit of always tying yourself off on a roof, you will avoid falling 😅 That could end your career or your life 😅
We always used roof jacks. roofed with my dad for 10 years on and off and have never tied off. Not saying it right but that’s how it was for me. 😝
Correct me if im wrong but doesnt he also have his lanyard on backwards isnt the shock absorber supposed to be attatched to the d ring on the back of your harness
I've wondered what those metal loops were doing on rooftops! Thanks for the clarification.
No it is your own safety. As someone wo works withe arborists (ground crew) I know that damage to property is better than damage to yourself or others.
Customer is smart for wanting you harnessed. If you fall and get hurt it's their insurance premiums that'll go up
Get your heights lisence and they will even teach you to use it properly 🤣
Don’t poke fun at people when you can’t even spell.
@@warmbagle9552 so sorry mate, I'm payed to be on roofs not spell
Lmfaoo not only did they care about your safety they thought ahead about that lawsuit 😂😭😭😭😭u not finna get hurt on they roof
imagine thinking you only need to put the nails you "feel you need" lol - this guy gonna learn hard
For those saying the harness is installed backwards you are wrong. The shock strap gets applied at the peak, then it's up to you to take the slack out of the rope at the point on your back that reaches the hand carabiner. But that won't do him any good since his leg straps were not on. But anything under an 8 slope is walkable.
I get washing tiles but washing shingles is a no lol
You have no idea what you're talking about.
U can and definitely should wash asphalt shingles. But there’s a proper way to do it and it should never be done by anyone other than a licensed and insured professional. Not the $300.00 roof cleaner. That’s a huge red flag. Roof washes start at $500.00 minimum. Even if it’s a 1,200 sqft house. If they don’t know that already then they are not qualified to do the job
There’s alot of liability involved and the contractor assumes all of it. Unlike the $300.00 guy. Who isn’t properly insured or properly trained and in that case the home owner assumes all liability
Hey if you fall it’s not going to work properly. The shock absorber should be clipped to your D ring so it removes the force at your body and not at the roof
That’s a roofers rig, you have a device attached to you that you run the line through that allows you to ascend and descend without having other persons on top of the roof having to belay a worker.
They make anchors that drop into the vent pipes. When applicable, they can save a fair bit of time.
You're kidding right
Nice to know a customer was concerned about your safety. I suppose it is the US, otherwise known as “The Lang Of Sue Anyone For Anything.” so they were likely concerned you would sue them if you fell off.
Umm that roofs warranty just got dumped and you definitely created a leak. And also . Roof washing is a waste of money and will kill the duration of which the roof will last. The minute you brush or scrub a shingle the rock texture breaks away exposing tar . Which when it’s 150° up there will melt and expose your fiberglass. I highly recommend never ha ing this treatment done unless you want a new roof a few years after . Also when a shingle is that tierd and beat you definitely dont want to be walking on them. Wet or dry. Nails can push thru shingles can crack . Moss and other algae’s on your roof will not hurt that much . I may be a eye sore . But at that point it’s probablyready for replacement anyway. If you remove these things on them you take away the granular rock they cling too . Good luck man and just know when you do this service your robbing people
You got it all wrong. Sure pressure washing or scrubbing a roof is bad. But a proper soft wash treatment actually extends the life. The algae (Gloeocapsa Magma) on shingle roofs eats away at a component of shingle roofs (the limestone). So removing this algae actually prevents granule loss.
A experienced an knowledgeable contractor can tell you this. Sorry you got screwed in the past lol. It’s probably true though about what you said about him causing a leak but I don’t know anything about roofing..
Yeah this does cause leaks , I understand what you do and great, but use mastic but they do make ridge holders where you don't have to nail or screw in but if you do have to that's where you would use the mastic once you take up those points. If you need that info, send me a message so I can send you the links
Bro i wish i had the balls to roof im in prime shape and strength but climbing down ladders has me sweat and shake idk got up and helped my dad re shingle our garage and shed combo and after every day of hard ass work coming off the ladder would take me 10 mins idk whats wrong with me lol
@@thecrazybirdboyck301 your scared, don’t be it’s all good
You just gotta give yourself a fuck it mentality! Meaning: stop focusing on how high you are, but where you are! If that makes sense!!!
@@thecrazybirdboyck301 yeah I feel that, honestly there's a few ladders that just suck going on even at 10ft. A good strong ladder always helps, proper safety equipment helps and eventually like "J-mac" said you'll give yourself that fuck it mentality. Also anything over a 8or9/12 pitch roof you have to get safety equipment like harnessing. That's just a stupid steep pitch and anything above that is a no without that equipment.
I’ve never heard of a roof anchor. Always used torn up cushions to stay on the roof
I can perfectly understand that home owner: my ex was in construction. “Was”, because one day he went to re-do a roof and fell off. 20-drop, concrete floor. He broke his back, spent six months in intensive care, one of those in an induced coma, and four more months in ‘regular’ care. He was then transferred to a care facility because he needs too much care to live anyplace else. I’m talking bedsores, stoma bag, regularly flaring up infections of MRSA, brain damage, the works. Doctors say the only reason he survived at all is that he was strong as an ox. They still had to bring him back multiple times.
Wear that harness. Install those nets. It’s worth the time if you see the shell of the man he used to be.
(For those wondering, no, his fall isn’t the reason we broke up. He wasn’t a law-abiding kind of man and an alcoholic).
Holy shit you have a lot of surfactant in your mix. I’ve worked with a lot of companies and have never seen a sudsy mix like that
Yeah bro you could be voiding their warranty…. What are you doing? You’re definitely gonna cost your customers a lot of money and get sued some day
All I was thinking about was the vid of the State Farm guy and the roofer arguing about shingles
how do you think the shingles got on? its like putting a lid on tupperware, when its placed properly it creates a seal, removing and replacing the seal doesnt change that, how can you lack this basic amount of critical thinking skills?
@@UMadUCauseBad are you trained by that shingle companies to put it on correctly. The install team installs to warranty standard. When you go and remove it it voids that warranty. Been in the contracting industry for 10 years specializing in roofs! Platinum Preferred contractor for Owens Corning. What he did voids the warranty and can cause the roof system to fail before it’s time.
@@fliksr3727 lol thats a crazy story, i doubt 75% of the roofs put up to that "standard" are actually up to code, maybe if you worked doing this for 10 years, youd have advocated for anchors to be normal installs. They clearly exist for a reason, and warranty or not, gl proving it, obv this was video taped, and also he got consent, so maybe the contractors or installers should have explained this better, either way i couldnt give any more fks than right now.
Lmao my ex step dad never gave me a harness and he’d sent me 18 beers deep up there
Lmao when I was a roofer the old man was like its a waste of time lololol
"how to get a leak in your roof"
U know u touch it u own it....unless u are a certified Roofer dont touch it.
It can cost....insurance will pay us 400 per man hour to go fix thongs up.
You should really learn how to speak English if you are gonna be trying to tell people what to do
The guy putting on a harness just because the customer said so is a chad move 😊 it’s also safer but he’s the professional so he knows what he can handle
That homeowner didn’t wanna get sued lol
Learn and keep going bro. Way to take the leap into your own business
Love reading these comments like I am ever going to be adding an anchor to a roof and use it properly
After watching this I'd never let anyone on mine.
Good idea. I have tied off to something on both sides of the house on the ground with a climbing line that gives me enough slack to move around. Use a friction knot like a prusic and work off of opposite ends while up there. I even tied off to my truck that I parked in the driveway
Make sure you have the keys, so your helper doesn't have you bouncing behind when he makes a lunch run.
Them state farm calim agents would FUCK you up, "the roof cant be claimed now cause you split the shingle 😂"
A friend of mine wanted to redo the roof of his garage/ barn with corrugated steel. That can be kind of hard to keep your footing on and he wasn't sure how to do it safely as this was before many people were even using cap protection so he didn't have access to any of the gear needed.
Well i was a rock climber. So i went to the upper floor in the barn, it wasn't a hay loft, but not a proper upstairs floor either. There was a window on each so i sized a 4x4 across each open window. Then i tied a line on one end, ran it out the window, across the roof, and tied it to the 4x4 in the other window. Then i just tied a boline knot in the end of another rope, clipped a carabiner to it, and clipped that to the fixed rope to allow side to side movement. I put him into a rappelling harness with a descender connected to the perpendicular line and he was able to use that to control the up and down limits. This way not only would any fall be arrested, but he didn't need roof Jack's and planks to stand on like when doing asphalt shingles. All he had to do to do the other side was move the layers line to the other side of the peak. Rope protector kept the sheet steel from cutting my rope. All in all it worked perfectly for him.
May not be osha approved, but it was his own property and paths can suck it lol
The dudes in my neighborhood just tie off to the truck on the other side of the house lmao
My grandpa (not a professional) fell off a roof cleaning off snow 20 years ago. He was pronounced brain dead and my mother had to say goodbye 6 months pregnant with me. Trust me when I say that your life is worth more than anything else and safety is key. Your family would much rather see you alive than anything else.
Crazy wind damage where you ripped I mean took that nail out 😂😂😂
Customer service is number 1!
dude really saw the harness bucket kit at home depot and thought "i could make a video about this" bought a shiny new flat bar too.
I tied off to my truck bumper. I always made sure my truck was on the opposite side of the roof slope I was working on. I was on a 2 story high garage.
As someone that fell off a roof, anything that you can do to feel safe up there do it!
it would be a good idea to put a zinc strip on the top ridge, the zinc will kill any moss, from growing in the future, then you don't need to spray ANYMORE POISON ON THR ROOF
Safety is number 1 especially when working in high places like that. It’s better to be safe. I tell my employees this all the time that safety is more important
This guy is a professional worth every nickel he charges
as a roofer myself, don’t use silicone on asphalt shingles like the ones in the video. it will eat away at the material and eventually cause a leak in the long run. use roofing cement (tar) or also commonly referred to as Mastic
Fall protection takes like 8 ft to fully engage
If you read the anchor package it says you have to always use the same nail layout they tell you
Buddy, I was a roofer for 27 years before I took a, “ya-hooo”, fall, 30’ to my back. I burst fractured my t-10,11, and 12th thoracic vertebrae, broke every rib, on my left backside, and collapsed lung. I was instantly paralyzed, from my waist down, and today, I’m alive, but I’m still a complete paraplegic. I wasn’t tied off, because, it was, “This will take a second”, I only had to tap in some lead into a rigger joint to hold some chimney flashing in and then put a nice bead of Vulkem limestone caulking. It was a nice, hot, beautiful, 4th of July morning, 10:30am, 85 degrees, 2010. The owner had the final payment check,($1650) as so as I finished the 10 minute left, to complete the previously mentioned work. I was on my 40’ heavy duty aluminum ladder, and had it fully extended. I could of had my usual helper to at least foot my ladder for $50 bucks, but… “this will only take me a second…” Please be careful young man and may the good Lord alway be your daily strength; spiritually, mentally, and physically.
I used to own a roof cleaning business. You just sling a 150’ static rope over the top of the roof, tie down to trees or posts on the ground, and put a butterfly knot at the peak
I can’t remember the last time I tied myself off just get up there to the job get off lol
Annnnnnd you're fired! Also gonna be replacing the ENTIRE ridge cap
Man that's a good pitch, I couldn't go more than that though
I used to fly trusses and sheet roofs and we never used harnesses unless there was a really extreme pitch, which you usually don't find in Florida since there's no snow. I will admit though, there are plenty of times I wish we had set up a harness as I myself have fallen several times and so has everyone else I worked with. It's just kinda a fact of life when you do that type of work and you just hope you don't land wrong lmao 🤣
OSHA if they saw would have put u out of business being that unsafe
@@davidanderson1074 OSHA only shows up if someone calls and they would only stop work until you are compliant, not put you out of business.
Tried this one day, shingles were old and cold. Never again so I ended up getting the ridge pro
OSHA requires I believe 6 nails on each side. Might be wrong it's been years but as someone else said, 3 nails on both side is not enough. He is required to use a harness when working over x feet around 2 stories though.
You upsell, install the anchor and paint them dark grey and brown, which blends in.
If it's a retired client, tell them to get matching paint and hand them the re.oved shingle.
If they asked for you to use a harness, they will only ever use you because not only so you have the anchors you install them for all the other workers that go up there. Usually HVAC.
I paid $6 per single anchor and 18 for the ridge you have. Two singles look better than a ridge, which needs a cover. Singles allow you to place where they're needed. Front and back rarely have the same ideal anchor location
The shock absorbing lanyard attaches to you not your anchor point. The force starts at you and travels up the rope, think of whipping a rope, and how the energy starts at you and moves down the rope. the wrapped up part attaches right to your harness. Also make sure that attachment point on your harness is all the way up between your shoulder blades, should be pretty tight up top but not as tight as you’d imagine around your pelvis. It may have been, just looked a little low.
Also don’t know what everyone is talking ab with the whole 3 nails thing, 6-8 nails is pretty standard for anchors at our company and the safety audits seem pretty ok with that as well. the “extra” holes are there for positioning, there’s not always something behind those top 3 holes. It’s all dependent, sometimes you need more but I regularly anchor with 4 bolts.
"All i was hopin i needed"
-Famous last words
This is the type of dude to be like “well I didn’t feel like I needed to wear a seatbelt because I was only going 35”
That home Insurance guy is gonna trip balls if he sees this video
My dad having me up there with shoes, soap and a garden hose…
Imagine if Osha came to find you 😂
Thank you for sharing.
In the uk people tend to just use scaffolding and long reach poles with foot pedals. Sid at partridge exterior cleaning on here does it, and it looks like it’s a safer option, especially with older weaker roofs. And American roofs do not look as strong as British ones
I've never tied myself off to a roof but I have tied three consecutive ladders side-by-side going down a roof hung on by one ridge hook to reach the bottom of the roof near a dormer
I can confidently say that 0% of all roofers I've seen are clipped in. It's funny but some wear harnesses clipped to nothing but most don't even do that. Safety third!
Ive been on a whole lotta roofs laying shingles and have never once seen or installed an anchor point to be left on a roof
Home owner avoiding an insurance claim “I distinctly requested they wear a harness and refused”
As a roofer for the last 28 years I applaud your safety consciousness, falling is no joke. NOW... Look up a roof anchor called a Double D or a Single D ring. These are meant to be cheap enough to be installed and left on the roof as a permanent anchor. Simply place it on the ridge as you do that monster anchor, caulk the nail holes and put the ridge back on over it. Leave it in place and badda bing! You now have an attachment point for the next time you come back. You are creating repeat customers? Right?
Your welcome...
When I worked installing satellite dishes we used to tie our ladders off to the gutters using zip ties lol. Been on thousands of roofs. never needed to tie off. Just wear non slips
Been on hundreds of roofs, never once seen an anchor point, except for window washer lifts, usually tie off to them for repelling 9r safety.
Be sure to follow the direction - install a nail in every hole to provide the strength the anchor needs.
Anchors should be rated for 5,000 lbs. There are many theories as to where OSHA got the 5,000 lbs from. But the most popular is a 220 lbs (100 kg) can reach forces of 2500 lbs from a 6 foot fall. Thus doubling the number will ensure all users are covered.
But, you gotta use it right.