HDR is a SCAM! feat. LG OLED GX 77
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- Опубликовано: 11 сен 2024
- HDR. We've all heard about it. But what does it really mean and is it really worth it? It's convoluted...
LG OLED77GX - Hit ‘where to buy’ for retail price! lgoled.co/Snaz... (not sponsored)
Editors Correction: A TV stand is NOT included but a wall mount bracket comes with the purchase. The GX was made to be flush wall mounted: no gap, no shadow, nothing in the way.
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HDR has now been marketed to consumers for a few years now but things are becoming increasingly complex and transparency from television manufacturers has become even more clouded. Let's talk about what high dynamic range is, what it will do for you, what HDR standards are supported by what TVs and if it really matters...
#LGOLED #SELFLITOLED #HDR
Editor’s Correction at 4:56 - A TV stand is NOT included but a wall mount bracket comes with the purchase. The GX was made to be flush wall mounted.
You need a desk stand? cheap HDMI TV!
why you need this channel????
Micro-OLED > OLED > Micro-LED > QLED > LED
Micro-OLED and OLED are the best#1.
OLED LG and Micro-LED SONY fusion to Micro-OLED.
Micro-LED / Mini-LED / Crystal-LED / Nano-LED / NanoCell-LED / NanoMeter-LED
Micro-OLED / Mini-OLED / Crystal-OLED / Nano-OLED / NanoCell-OLED / NanoMeter-OLED
OLED with no backlight is the best#1 and OLED is patented to it's creator China's LG. And somewhen China's LG will partnership with Japan's SONY micro-LED to create micro-OLED. That micro-OLED would be then 50% Japan's Sony micro and 50% China's LG OLED. Those OLED and Micro-OLED will dominate every tv, monitor, displays, screens arround the whole world. I'm so hyped for OLED and micro-OLED, I am waiting so long for and I hope The Earth & I will survive to its release! But since no one agrees to my offers, the hope's chances looks very bad.
LED has to be forbidden, because LED's backlight is unhealthy, backlight towards the face destroys the health of the eyes (very fast!) and even the health of the face-skin (after years). OLED has no backlight, OLED is the best#1. Whoever supports in building LED, who supports in fact last but not least the damage, destroyment and devolution of humans - anger, hate and lost of humanity at the end. LED's backlight is a part of those many bad wrong-going things in real life. To make this clear, ofc I don't mean RGB-LED, I mean the backlight-LED inside of TVs!
To make this clear, "Micro-OLED / Mini-OLED / Crystal-OLED / Nano-OLED / NanoCell-OLED / NanoMeter-OLED" has never been said anywhere before me, I am the first who created that word and the fusioned technology it stands for, that means it's patented to me and if China and Sony wants to build that Micro-OLED, they have to ask me for my permission or it will be criminal theft by them. They can have my permission when they pay me 100 million €, that is not much compares to their billions!
10:04 You say that Samsung hdr 10+ is one of the big 2 fighting on either side. Then say it’s in the middle. I’m confused.
Then with all this in mind you should do a budget TV roundup telling folk which brands take a decent stab at colour accuracy within their budget constraints.
Don't lie so much
Photography geek here: HDR is not about a dark scene vs light scene: it's about the range of values from brightest to darkest in one frame. The extreme example would be having a photo that can have a full contrast range inside a building and also having detail in a window (where normally the bright outdoors would be blown out). A typical SDR jpeg image is 8bit per channel: or having up to 256 levels. Anything above this is technically HDR (I also work with 3D animation, which utilizes 32bit HDR for light simulation: 4.2 billion levels). When it comes to the DR of an OLED, you're quoting the average peak brightness: 2% window goes to almost 980 nits (which is closer to the max 1024 levels of 10bit). When it comes to TV reviews, I think Rtings does a really good job of having consistent and in-depth measurements and recommendations for each TV. RE: Dolby Vision's 12bit color not meaning much...well it's a prime example of tone mapping (what the dynamic meta data is also doing: adjusting contrast curves to fit the native dynamic range of the TV). There's also not a format war with HDR10 and Dolby Vision: you'll see 4K movies either be solely HDR10 or Dolby Vision/HDR10. There are few titles that are HDR10+.
Well that was long.
To make things even more confusing, HDR means something different in photography than it does in television - generally, in photography, HDR means that you've had a multi-exposure image which has been flattened down into an SDR brightness range, ideally giving the *impression* of a wide dynamic range while still actually being limited to an SDR display.
@@fluffycritter HDR doesn't necessarily mean merging multiple exposures (to a 16bit or 32bit image format). Now we have image editing programs that support 10bit displays. It's also been a fundamental principle with digital photography to have a RAW image format that's higher dynamic range that you tone map to sRGB color space for monitors or print.
@@dsr0116 True, that's why I said "generally" though, since that's the meaning where the term "HDR" first took hold and it's still what's meant by a lot of things, especially lower-end cameras that do cheap HDR by merging multiple rapid exposures or whatever. Like that's what HDR mode on an iPhone used to do, and even higiher-end prosumer cameras still often have an HDR bracketing mode for offline merging elsewhere.
Which is to say that the example HDR photo that Quinn showed when explaining what HDR is was probably HDR in that dynamic range compression sense, and not HDR in the "this benefits from a 10-or-more-bit display" sense.
@@fluffycritter There has been a HDR "style" in photography where you take a multiple exposure image and do auto tone mapping (or "compressing" contrast). However, 32bit HDR image formats were also created for 3D animation: where merged exposures can simulate real light values that is used in rendering the environment. Since photography has always dealt with different dynamic ranges of scene, recorded medium, and display/print medium...I've always thought it makes sense to make those delineations. It has always been that a "SDR" image is anything 8bit. Many photographers take a RAW exposure (that can go over 14bits these days) and adjust its contrast for intended display (originally 8bit and now 10bit or 12bit codecs)...that's still a manual form of tone mapping (as you're applying curves). Dolby Vision has its own technology for dynamically tone mapping 12bit space to the display's DR (and there's automatic tone mapping with a smart phone's HDR mode). Same is true for a TV's processor in mapping HDR to its technology/standards.
Title: HDR IS A SCAM!
First 5 seconds: HDR is a scam... Well, kinda
Me: *closes video*
Nah this comment took too long
Plasma is better than OLED did it for me. Terrible outdated take. Research more.
Their take on curved displays was also off-putting. Makes me question the rationale of the channel...
@@snazzy Oh, is this how you treat your audience? Time to hit that "don't recommend channel" button...
@Drew that's what i meant. It doesn't come close. People remember plasmas with rose tinted glasses.
You've covered this pretty well in the video, but the clickbaity title is pretty bad and untrue tbh... HDR is absolutely NOT a scam or a fad. *Real* HDR is incredibly visceral and is definitely the future of TV, film and VR content. The *problem* is that TV manufacturers aren't honest about their marketing, and sell "HDR" TVs that aren't really true HDR. Their TVs can accept the HDR signal, but can't properly tonemap that signal to the capabilities of their panels, so the resulting image is utter trash. So I suppose that could be considered a scam. But it's not HDR that's the scam -- the scam is that they're telling you it's HDR when it's not.
IMO, the only great HDR consumer TVs right now are OLEDs. The LG C9 / CX, for example, are really fantastic TVs. The Sony OLEDs are great too, but fun fact: they buy their panels from LG. So you might as well just get the LG TVs IMO.
And actually, there is a standard for HDR -- PQ (perceptual quantization, AKA ST2084) has become the standard gamma for creative HDR content. The PQ curve peaks at 10,000 nits. It's the type of HDR that both HDR10 and Dolby Vision implement. The main difference is that Dolby Vision allows for content creators to make trims to their color grades which are tailored for a variety of different screens. And it also supports 12 bit color. So Dolby Vision is a better implementation of PQ than HDR10. (HDR10+ is a ripoff of Dolby Vision, which basically no film studios have even implemented in their workflows. So I predict it will die out very soon).
And HLG (hybrid log gamma) has become the standard for live HDR broadcasts. It's, frankly, much worse than PQ, but makes sense for live productions because it spits out a signal that works for both SDR and HDR screens.
That's why I don't take RUclips video titles that seriously anymore, everything is clickbait to attract viewers to the video. The video content seems to differ from the video titles these days anyway
Panasonic OLEDs look amazing as well. What do you think about Samsung QLED -- since most do not have a perfectly dark room to watch TV, wouldn't you think that the brighter QLED is the smarter option?
Personally I have a LG OLED for the living room and a projector for my bedroom, the projector is the one I use for dark room movie watching.
Quinn’s title is as bad as the HDR logo on cheap LCD TVs.
I think for HDR content an LCD TV is better. While they don't have infinite contrast, good LCD TVs can have contrast ratios over 30,000 while having 4x more nits.
@@winjaywin Yes, Panasonic OLEDs are fantastic too, but they are unfortunately not available in the US. And no, I don't believe QLED is the smarter option. HDR isn't *just* about shear brightness -- it's about dynamic range (the range of stops from the darkest shadows to the brightest highlights). As far as consumer TVs go, OLEDs do a better job at managing both highlights *and* shadows. :)
It's even worse with PC monitors. There, "HDR" means "can accept an HDR signal" regardless of how many shades of color it produces on the display.
Most of the time "HDR" display can have a peak brightness of ~400 nits, and don’t even have dimming zones, so the blacks are always gray.
No it isn't worse there is a certification unlike with tv manufacturers, check VESA HDR certified.
Yes, but the average consumer won't look for "HDR1000 VESA certification"
@@LePoudingue That's not my point, my point is at least with monitors there is some kind of official certification whereas with tv's there is not. As for the average consumer in this day and age if you aren't willing to do a little research before buying when it's as simple as doing a google search then it's not anyone fault but your own if you are misinformed.
@@charaznable8072 yes I see what you mean. The best way to have nice products is however to read detailed reviews for color gammut coverage, contrast ratio...
The "problem" with HDR is that it is almost entirely dependent on the quality of the hardware and cannot be replicated with software tricks. If you want high dynamic range and the wide color gamut that the technology offers, you have to have a good quality panel. This means at least for the foreseeable future, the only good HDR experience will be on expensive televisions and monitors.
True for everything in technology. And over time it becomes cheaper (and a new, expensive technology is introduced)
nobody mentions this, but windows HDR implementation is absolute garbage. playing a 4k HDR video on youtube results in massive frame drops even on powerful hardware
@@Blox117 nobody asked you. You're stealing my comment thunder
@@KAZAM707 my sincerest apologies, i didnt know anyone cared for what you had to say.
@@Blox117 I appreciate the apology. Now you know better. I think we all learned a valuable lesson.
All you need to know:
If you want an OLED, if it can hit 600 nits, HDR looks great.
If you want to buy an LED, if it can hit 1000 nits, HDR will look great.
Well let’s not forgot the color volume but yes besides that you’re right
@@zombiebillcosby well I think the color volume of these sets are pretty good as they are. Especially any TV with QLED tech which tends to have better color volume than even OLED
FURognar I was actually looking at the color volumes of OLEDs and QLEDs (at least the Samsung ones) and the OLEDs have significantly better color gamut than any of the QLEDs and only slightly by like 3% or so worse color volume than the QLED. This includes last years models too
@@FURognar I've looked at both LG's oled and Samsung's Qled just a few days ago and I must say..Qled is a real good competitor.
@@Groovemasterflex1 once you calibrate them, they look pretty close to one another. The excellent contrast of OLED will make them pop a little more, but the advent of HDR helped to close that gap just a little bit more.
Recovering audiophilie? It's there a rehab meeting of sorts? Like "Hi, I'm Liaz and I'm an audiophile. It's been 10 days since I last spend 500 bucks on a pair of headphones."
500 Bucks is more than all of my audio related gear combine, some Audiophile really go into the deep water territory.
Edit: Let me count the beans.....
Sony WH 1000XM3 : 200 bucks
Sennheiser HD6XX: 200 bucks
Sony WI 1000X: exactly 100 bucks!
Hmm, looks like I lied, it is exactly how much my gear worth.
Mr. Snazzy was one of the influential people who helped me get into the headphone hobby back in the day..
@@Verpal Man, headphones have gotten so cheap over the years. Do you have any standalone DACs or amps yet?
I use a sennheiser hd100 combined with a traktor audio 2 interface on my phone, it sounds better than a more expensive headphone plugged in a midrange pro mixing panel.
Edit: 'counting beans' this amounts to 36 plus 80 euros = 116€. Oh, and I have expert hearing and I'm a sort of audiophile too.
@@CaveyMoth I tested with my current phone and PC, they can drive HD6XX okay as long as I don't push the volume too high, so, no DAC, not even a cheap one.
@G B 007 you should listen the same recording on multiple headphone to understand the difference.
Compare decent budget headphone like koss porta pro with lets say a planar like hifiman sundara or audeze lcd 2c (those 2 planars have completely different vibe).
It's like judging mineral water. They all taste similar, but you can notice the hint difference between bottled water and tap water
CONGRATS SNAZZZYYY ENJOY YOUR LIFE MARRIED AND I WISH YOU THE BEST!!!🥳🥳🥳
Thanks, my dude!
Snazzy Labs will you call her your “SnazzyWife” ? hahaha
@@meshachlovelace.8162 This is a great question. LOL
@@meshachlovelace.8162 even if he did. youtube converts it down to non-HDR
Drew why
And here I am feeling blinded by HDR shows on my LG OLED. I personally don’t need any brighter.
Hey I'm planning on buying the LG CX but is hesitant to because I don't want to be watching a movie and then see dark scenes portrayed too dark where I can't see details in shadows. Like at the 4:46 mark. He's on Netflix showing a tiny trailer but the TV makes it out darker than desired. Does you LG CX portray scenes like that also? Is 4:46 an accurate occurrence? Please I would love to know because I have to make a decision this weekend
Mikelara973 “too dark” is a subjective matter. I have a C9 btw, not a CX. I know that visiting a showroom might be challenging during the pandemic, but seeing it for yourself is still the best way to judge if the dark scenes will be too dark for you. Personally, I don’t have problems with dark scenes on my OLED. What you see on RUclips is worse than in real life mostly due to the compression destroying the shadow details and also because the camera captures it differently than the human eye.
Mikelara973 I have a C9. I was worried about the brightness, then I realized the c9 was actually twice as bright as my older vizio. I have a very bright living room and this tv reflects less light than my old lcd and gets brighter. The first time you turn it on and it stays black, but the logo comes up, youll wonder why you were ever worried :)
lolololol stop. lg oled are farthest thing from bright
Dennis Finan yeah someone’s “not bright enough” is someone else’s “ouch my eyes hurt”. Also depends on the environment.
_"recovering audiophile"_
Lmao! 😂
I’ve been playing with hdr for a while and trying to like it. I have a $500 monitor and a LG CX. I’ve adjusted settings used different devices watched tons of content. SDR looks so much better to me every time. It’s more vibrant and brighter overall. Is it just me?
Definitely just you, but I don't blame you. Most HDR content streaming is good, not great. For example, HDR on the Godzilla vs Kong 4k disc is incredible. That same movie on streaming did not have the same impact. If I had not watched them back to back I wouldn't have noticed, but the difference is there. Try and find some reference quality stuff and I think you'll see your CX in a new light.
Gears of War 5 is also the best HDR I've seen in a game so far, you might want to try it out if you have an Xbox
it’s not just you, HDR for me on my cx is terrible , specially for gaming. I’ll admit some scenes look gorgeous but for the most part it’s more frustrating than enjoyable. it’s crazy how one scene can look great than the time of day changes and it looks terrible. at this rate you have to adjust settings each time the geme changes from a night scene to a day scene.
Not just you. I've done a tin of testing on my LG C2 and SDR looks so much more vibrant. I've compared the same content in HDR vs SDR dozens of times. HDR almost always looks muted and bland when compared to SDR. I can only assume most people have simply never actually compared and are just assuming HDR is better. Its not, SDR truly looks substantially better than HDR. I really cannot understand how people can like HDR.
I don't understand how some TV and monitor makers can say "HDR" when it's less than 400 nits in brightness.
They can if it is an Oled
The same way Apple can use the Pro moniker on ridiculous products like the Airpods 'Pro'.
because HDR 10 has lower brightness certifications. HDR 10 300, 600 and more.
these tvs support HDR format but not displaying it. it is like some chinese brand marketing their tv as 4k capable but without 4k input support.
It displays HDR properly. As in, you can play HDR content without washed out gray-ish colors. Which is pretty nice to be able to do, even if your TV can't display proper HDR.
the jump to 1080p was the biggest improvement in screen quality. everything after that was just worse and worse and here we are HDR age, where shadows look like your in a cave and highlights blind you to the point where watching TV is painful.
I still have my Sony 1080p. I'm nervous to upgrade to 4K. All my mate's UHDs look so dark in comparison.
@@simonfilmfan4899 personally I rather watch movies on my 1080P plasma TV than my new LG 4k OLED.
3D TVs were amazing. They single-handedly created a surplus of 120 Hz panels nobody wanted that became the foundation for high refresh rate gaming LCDs. From the end of CRTs there was a big regression in black levels, motion clarity and refresh rates. This helped LCDs to suck much less.
The real reason Samsung created HDR10+ is because their panels couldn't meet a specification in testing versus mainly LG's panel so they went and made out their own..Linus Tech Tips mentioned it in a video on that not very long ago
Do you remember the video by chance?
To my knowledge they started an open source HDR10+ so to avoid Dolbys Visions added licensing fee and ultimately is an update to HDR10 by allowing scene by scene or frame by frame making the metadata dynamically update on levels as opposed to the current set values we have now. They already meet Vesas HDR certifications and their Oled phone panels and 2022 Q OLED panels will also use the tech.
If there's any article or more recent news to this you have then I'd like to have a look to see if anythings changed.
@@CJ_Williams I did look for it after i wrote this comment but i couldn't find it; it must be burred inside one of Linus' LG videos i guess, if my memory serves me right and the fact that he gets inside information directly from LG; the reason was because of a very specific lab test used in the certification; some measure it cannot quite reach it; i'll have another look
@@St0RM33 That is far from true Licensing is the name of the business.. As an example ..do you really think $20,000 monitors which lack DV.. HGiG.. or even HDCP.. are worse than a generic but "certified" 600usd TV?
Now we have seen the recent release of QD-Oled essentially the most capable panels ever made..
Do you really think those are missing something?
I got one of those Curved TV's and it's still Curved 🙅🏼♂️
What? It didn’t flatten out?
Put the TV in between two heavy books, it’ll flatten out over night.
@Monkey Bob OLED , My guy
Cursed, it is
@@ggali09 Lmao Dude!
I’m surprised there was absolutely no mention of VESAs display HDR standards. They even have a bunch of levels of certification based around different brightness levels and honestly I think it’s probably the most robust standard as of now
I think it's just to certify the peak/minimum brightness of displays though. You'd also need the display to be HDR10/+ or Dolby Vision on top of it.
Definitely agree though, in terms of hardware certificate, it does seem good, though thee Asus Vivobook is certified as HDR600, however, there appears to be little evidence that the peak brightness actually reaches that high.
"Go outside and look at the shade under a tree" - weeps in UK...
Nick Firth I was wondering why he’d say that and realised most of his audience are from US 😂 UK weather sucks
Weeps in desert.
@Bobby Brady I think even the phrase "on the bright side" is a cruel irony for the given circumstances 😩
Snazy:go outside and look under a tree
Me who's not only an introvert, but also wakes up at night:
Wow, its sure dark around here
completely blue ballsed by the lack of VESA HDR info
"Ballsed"
@@madmax2069 yes cause there are 2 not 1 :P
Exactly!
HDR conten you meant? studio's?
Re render them at home?
As a film maker a tip you reduce grey banding in your uploads add film grain in post. Then upload and your video grays will have 0 bands. RUclips sets 8bit rec709 in 1080 or 4k. Many users have nice cameras but fail to understand why there uploaded footage has banding. This is how you fix it.
The store I work for actually has a section in the TV specs listing that shows wether or not a TV has a 10 bit panel or an 8 bit panel.
On top of this they also have a unique label for true HDR TV's that aren't shown on the cheap, fake HDR TV's that only support the format but don't have the hardware.
Plasma 58" in living room, Panasonic. Still has super deep and vibrant colours and a GREAT viewing angle ... The black looks just as deep as my HDR 4k LG
The only tech that's as good as plasma is OLED. If I couldn't afford an OLED TV I would definitely buy a used plasma. All of the LCD tech is junk, even the 2020 models from Samsung and LG. It all still has the same old problems with viewing angles and blacks. The manufacturers killed plasma because LCD is cheaper and much more profitable for them.
"Go outside for a minute"
It's snowing and it's night time.
I'm just going to sit here watching my 13 year old plasma.
For a sec I thought Doug DeMuro started a tech Channel. 😂
"This" is HDR haha
Didn't see any LG OLED GX 77 quirks and features.
@@super_sigma_ yea and that the reason LG OLED GX 77 scores the lowest points in my Dougscore
At home we currently have some Samsung TVs that look amazing, specially when playing 4K content but I’ll admit... we used to have a Panasonic Plasma tv that while it was a 1080p screen, it look sooo much better. Image was just so clear and beautiful even many years after its purchase and even after replacing several components that where malfunctioning after all those years of use.
Walner Mercado .WMRK2 guess i better not throw away my kuro after feeling inferior from you tubers and haters talking about the new ones and smack about plasma
“Buy the best TV you can afford, don’t worry about the specs”
But...The best TVs (you can afford) have the best specs 😂
Yeah, I already did that, it cost £300, and said HDR on the box so I guess I got scammed haha...
What about the VESA HDR Certifications?
he totally forgot about it
Vesa hdr is for monitors, not normally used in tv sets
Hey Quinn, when I first wanted to try HDR back in 2016, I got the best TV I could afford at the time, which was 43" Sony XBR series. It supports both HDR10, and HLG, and runs android TV. I'm really happy with the quality, and I can see an HDR difference. However, at the end of the day, I am someone who likes older content for the most part, and while many titles, and other content I like, may be available in HD, many are not HDR. So I've decided, to just go back to watching movies and TV as I always have, for the content, and story. That's more important than video standards because you can have something that looks and sounds amazing, but isn't enjoyable to watch from a content and quality prospective.
The other thing I've considered is, I have a visual impairment, and it's more difficult at times to notice display tech differences, especially if they aren't as big as SD vs HD. With that said, I still notice a difference with HDR, and SDR most times, but I notice a bigger difference looking at real life dynamic range vs a video display. Anyway, great video.
Meanwhile RUclips keeps changing my quality to 360p
@@Neiva71 or just put it on 1440p and it stays on 1440 on all videos?
@@Neiva71 he is not even 12 i guess....
the dude didn't even talk about HDR 400, 600, 1000 and yet we are confused.
Those are VESA display specs that're applied to monitors, not TVs...
@@MLWJ1993 that's not the vesa... thats the hdr specs and tvs have them as well if you look at the specs.
@@HarlesBently Those 3 specifically are VESA display HDR specs used for monitors. TVs I haven't really seen with these badges ensuring the claims of the manufacturer are met by a individual 3rd party (actually tested).
@@MLWJ1993 Then you haven't been looking properly.
There's always the Vesa certified DisplayHDR standard, which is also well known, and is supported / was developed by over 30 companies
But then again, it's not a scam. I have an LG OLED TV, and watching a show in Dolby Vision or even the lowly HDR spec is *very* satisfying. Very. So for me the consumer, it's a win. I got the LG OLED, HDR content looks absolutely amazing on it, and I will never look back.
"Do you really care what standard is being used?"
A very loaded question in the larger context of the tech landscape, but yes you should care. Proprietary standards have a tendency to bribing manufacturers into not adopting competing standards (example HDMI versus DisplayPort) even when the competition have a better technology (again HDMI versus DisplayPort). Thankfully, Dolby don't make a habit of using such tactics, hence the fact most TVs support multiple standards at the same time (contrary to the HDMI Forum who pay TV and AV receiver manufacturers for not including a DisplayPort port on their products).
QLED and OLED are the only 2 that should ever be labelled as HDR. They both acheive it differently but they both do it right. Now I do prefer OLED because of the instant response times in games and I also feel like games benefit more from better black levels than better spectral highlights.
Turning on HDR in some games is night and day and almost makes the SDR version look grey and monochromatic. Best example I have seen is horizon zero dawn. The grass gains a lot of lighting detail on HDR. All the yellow hues are just deleted in SDR. It's like a free lighting setting bump. Of course games and videos need to properly implement HDR for it to look a lot better. I have seen poor implementations in games where it's better to leave it off. But OLEDs aren't great if you have a window behind the TV, and I mean directly. If it's off to the side and you have blinds you should be fine. I had to parallel to the windows and it's a lot better now.
Now on my cheap TU7000 that I used temporarily, because my budget was blown on my PC: it sucked at HDR. It looked grey like described, and it was even worse at handling reflections. It was like looking in a mirror. Just don't cheap out on TVs. It's a long term investment. A good buy now should still look amazing for at least 10 years until something better comes. Look at plasma. They are only beaten in terms of picture quality by expensive TVs now.
I find that HDR on my C2 OLED almost always looks worse than SDR if I test the same content in both formats. HDR looks so bland and muted. SDR is vibrant and pops. This is on a calibrated set mind you. Completely unimpressed with HDR.
About freaking time, watched like 100 RUclips videos on this matter and none passed the information as clear as you did. Thanks a lot for making it crystal clear... and I thought by buying HDR10 I am going to be on top of the world. time to make some adjustments :)
Thank you for what I would like to call a sanity check on HDR. Open standards are a great thing, but only if they're well defined and broadly adopted. Hopefully HDMI 2.1 will improve some of this and not the opposite!
I love the message he delivered in the end. I really don't mind HDR standards as long as my tv gives out a decent real life experience , regardless of which HDR standard is used.
Well hdr technology really works but it depends on the video your playing on an hdr tv, the video might not support hdr so the tv's hdr technology will convert or upscale it from sdr to hdr. It can have good or sometimes bad results it always depends on the video itself.
"take it from me, a recovering audiophile" hit to close to home
I will always love plasma. I have owned 3 and none of them have disappointed me. Sure, you have to be careful with burn in, but they have gotten better as the years have passed. There are also programs you can download to fix any burn in that has occurred. The refresh rate can not be beat. The contrast can not be beat, but in all honesty, an oled does come close. The only draw backs would be higher energy consumption and heat. Other than that, nothing beats a plasma for watching movies in a dark room or gaming(which is why I bought my first one).
flexopuppy my 2009 kuro elite pioneer 151 fd 60 inch came with a energy star decal
Anytime I watch my girl friends mid range Samsung TV I remember why I bought an oled and I'm happy that I ignored the OLED doomsdayers
Yes
I loved my OLED too, until I got major burn-in after only a few years :(
Just replaced with a new Sony LCD, looks just as good.
@@jonnyeh aw the poor baby!
@@juno1597 that will be you too eventually
@@FURognar I've heard that with plasmas. I still own Samsung high tier 50" plasma tv that will turn 11 years soon and still works like charm, zero burn ins. Moved it to my bedroom, and replaced it with OLED this year.
What about the Vesa DisplayHDR Certification?
I feel like it deserved a mention, since it is actually a pretty easy way for telling if an HDR TV is any good
I was waiting for you to mention the Vesa certifications for HDR
Part of the problem is the many stages that an image much go through. Beginning with how many stops of sensitivity the camera has. Are you shooting in rec509, log or raw? What color subsampling? Editing platform including the monitors used for that. Delivery format(s) to the TV and finally the panel sitting in your living room. There are so many opportunities for a bottleneck and loss of data. In some scenarios HDR isn't useful such as underwater where there is rarely enough dynamic range to max out the gamut or sensor. Shooting in 5.5K or 8K and downsampling late can help preserve information further down the process for 4K.
I haven’t been outside for years! Im scared.
I bought 2 of those pioneers for 75 bucks each a few years back and they are still amazing
3D TVs still exist in my house, I have three, one of which is also 4K HDR, and a 4K, 3D capable projector. In most cases I prefer the 3D Blu-ray to the 4K UHD.
Me too! I always prefer to watch the Movie in 3D on my Beamer in FHD instead of 4KHDR, cause you are just so much more into the movie in 3D!
I'll *never* understand why all the companies dropped such a fascinating technology all at once in 2017. All 3d tvs, cameras and pc monitors. Not a single niche product for those who liked it! 3D was suddenly *_BANNED_* for home use. 🚫😫 I suspect a patent war with LG, but who the heck knows...
@@Caesaurus Yeah unfortunately.
I'm wondering why exactly ...? 😩😞
@@Talia.777 Mostly because the media tendentious war against it, just search for the cnet's disgusting article "Shambling corpse of 3D TV finally falls down dead".
"Finally"! Such a joy and such a relief for them...
I apparently don't have enough invested in any of my TVs or monitors to make HDR matter. It essentially darkens any screen I apply it to, and in most instances washes out the color significantly.
Still enjoying my Panasonic plasma, last model they made. It’s still a lovely thing, I’d buy another in a flash.
I also have the latest panasonic plasma they have made. Very good picture quality. Let's see what panasonic will be bringing in the upcoming 2 years to eventually upgrade.
I didn't upgrade to 4K until 2 years ago and bought a 55' LG C8. I absolutely love it. I couldn't jump on a cheap TV. I had a 42" Panasonic GT25 Plasma before that. I wasn't impressed by anything LCD. Especially when viewed from an angle. In glad I didn't settle. The Panasonic is in the bedroom now, and still impresses me today. I adjusted the settings a bit since it's usually only watched in complete darkness. The C8 is in the living room where no windows reflect on it. I couldn't be happier with both screens. I doubt I'll upgrade until 8K or something else has been perfected for a few years lol.
I have an oled and I'm not impressed with HDR ,its way too dark, even with settings at max 🤨
For my first apartment, I invested earlier this year in buying the flagship Samsung 75" 8K with 4000 nits of brightness. Love viewing content on RUclips filmed in 4320p! It's not just about the limited 8K content out there but also the best in the market specs that makes this TV truly future proof.
Shit I have that TCL and tbh for the price and vs my old TV im very satisfied 😂 it lights up the room compared to my old one even if it is "dim" and low on the nittys
@Drew Sure it's a fine tv for the price, but as an HDR display it's just straight up bad.
200 nits peak brightness is simply not enough, HDR will looks worse than SDR.
Drew lol, who exactly would I be shilling for?
@@robbertjansen4199 I mean, it really depends on which model you get. Yeah the 4 series is likely not the best HDR display, but then again it is dirt cheap and looks decent enough for the price. The 6 series has decent HDR for example (and onward). The 6 series is still pretty well priced too.
@Drew no, you're wrong. The TCL can't produce deep blacks and the peak brightness is just lousy... What you would expect for that price. My gf bought one after my old 1080p Sony TV died and when I compare it to my Sony XF90 it's just two different worlds. But for the price we got the TCL, it's of course very good and for the sleeping room it's more than enough. Still it's shitty HDR, we don't need to lie.
@Drew Are you trolling? Or are you just upset you wasted money on a non HDR TV?
Either way you simply cannot argue that the 4 series is a serviceable HDR tv. Especially when compared to the x900f. The numbers don't lie. If you're a TCL fan boy then fine, but the 4 series should not be the hill you die on.
I just upgraded from a tv that only supported 1080p to a 4k ultra HD and the difference is unreal. It's all about Frame rate. Tv shows, movies from 2014 on a 2019 4k won't make up for the pixel rate. Simple as that
The way the screen was moving in your background made it seem as if you had slider going up on your opening segment. (:
I like what you said about OLED and HDR. I have watched several HDR videos on an iPhone with an OLED screen. The contrast is what I like the most. BUT HDR contrast isn't that much better than a standard HD video on the phones OLED screen. Good rant sir and I appreciated your thoughts. (:
That's curious, as I see a huge difference on the Galaxy S10 between SDR and HDR content (though I rarely watch HDR on my phone as the impact is not the same on such a small sceeen). Were you in a bright environment? It could have been fighting with the processing used to scale-up the contrast to combat the lighting in the room.
Alex Atkin I enjoy the difference and will seek out HDR when possible. (:
There are several HDR specifications the problem is that TV Manufacturers ignore them. Vesa has HDR 400, HDR 500, HDR 600, HDR 1000, HDR 1400, HDR 400 True Black, and HDR 500 True black. And monitor manufacturers are using them and since the panels for TVs and Monitors are both made by the same companies it really wouldn't be that hard. The only reason I can think of why these companies don't is because well the consumer. Outside of the enthusiast the average consumer will by that crappy $400 HDR TV. Blame the consumer. Trust me if people started actually caring and not buying TVs that weren't certified the manufacturers would be getting them certified ASAP. Its why computer monitors are being certified and TVs are not
I think LG OLED TV works all three for HDR TV, HDR monitor, and HDR game. Its magic control ThinQ AI is the most user friendly.
Best way to pick a TV is to go to a store and see it in person. Set the picture to how you want it and buy the set that looks right for you. Picture quality is so subjective you can’t just pick one online and pay without seeing it first.
I did one better I brought a Pacific rim 4K Blu-ray along for the ride and walked out with the TV I wanted
"it's a scam, kinda, a little bit, mostly" =/= "HDR is a SCAM!" title. Please stop click baiting.
It's not that serious
You missed how SDR uses gamma curves to map the video signal values to light output, while HDR uses PQ (aka SMPTE ST.2084). This curve is non-linear and more closely related to human vision, allocating more bits in the lower brightness regions. This allows more brightness related detail to be retained in low light scenes. A 10-bit SDR signal will not produce the same picture as a 10-bit HDR one, even on low peak nit displays.
I still love my cheap TCL 55" 4k :(
Seems to me you don’t love your cheap TCL 55 inch 4K because you put a sad face
@@thedarkforce9596 I just was sad that Snazzy was poo pooing on my tv basically lol
It's amazing for the price still! I paid 550CAD for it a year or two ago and I have no regrets, though its biggest flaw is that it's dim in HDR, in a moderately lit room it can still dazzle with the picture it displays, it's still amazing that they're that cheap. They kept the same model around for even cheaper, I think I saw it on Amazon for in the 300s now. Still a great value. And Mini-LED in the 6 series for a few hundred more is also impressive.
@@tipoomaster I feel the same way. As much as I would have loved a vizio 4k TV that excels even more, it was hard to justify a TV that was 2x-4x the price. Maybe one day but the TCL is pretty damn good for the money. I know Snazzy wasnt crapping on the TV as a whole, just the HDR so no hard feelings haha.
It’s not true the old pioneers Kuro as good as they were are no match for modern TVs especially LG OLED
To be very honest about this. I am using a mid end Samsung NU7090 2018/19 model and hooked it to Series S.
After that, I turned on my gaming mode and 4K mode on and set my color space settings to Auto to avoid over saturation in general and also while playing games. Also kept the same for HDMI Black level.
Then I tuned my television's picture settings in HDR mode to suit my late night 🌃 gaming sessions, where I literally turn off the lights around me, whether it be backlight or contrast or color settings.
I did kept the TV color space settings inside xbox settings menu to be 36 bits per pixels (12 bit) and PC RGB under overscan fidelity options, then set my resolution at 4k and then turned on HDR settings.
Now, I played Metro Exodus from 10 feet away because in Series S, the resolution is literally below 720p for most of the times.
Guess what???
I am enjoying my gameplay session alot and it is obviously a visual treat to my eyes.
I don't have any fancy setup like an OLED or the Series X with me.
Just be satisfied with what you've got with now and enjoy your life instead of becoming a techie nerd from the things you buy for your own personal use.
Hey Snaz: At 10:06, I think you meant to say "Ultra HD Premium" or "HDR10"-- not HDR10+
Yea I heard it and I was like "wait what was that?"
There is this guy "Quantum tv" calling HDR is a scam and proving it by PS4 games looking bad in hdr. It depends on the hardware actually. You can not expect hdr to look great on a low nits tv. So many conspiracy theorists here calling hdr a scam without seeing problems is their setup or source they are playing. Hdr is a game changer really. Its a whole new movie experience.
curved displays are a thing for monitors still, just not with tvs
And they still suck for 16:9 monitors. Large ultra-wide for a single user, curved makes sense.
I’m still using a Sony Bravia from 2006 or 2007 and it’s great! Hope it never breaks!
Same, sony has never let me down once!
From 10:04 to 10:15, you said "HDR10 Plus" twice... Can I assume you meant just "HDR10" the first time?
That's what I assumed as well.
Besides the clickbait title, we can say the same thing about every spec of every product. Manufacturers will always try to list the most features, and consumers should investigate if they want the best for their money. Having a feature doesn't mean having the best experience with that feature.
"Hmmm that Pioneer looks a lot like the TV I inherited from my grandparents..."
*checks TV* It's a Pioneer Kuro 5080P 50", retail price $3500
"WOW, Okay I appreciate this TV WAAAAY more now!"
I'm glad my old Kuro is still working, but there will be a day when it won't.
I hope by then something as good is available.
Yes I still have my lx508 but retired it due to the annoying plasma buzz
Visually it beats current cheaper 4k LCD
Me too same boat just see brighter tv’s sure 4k but lacking color won’t take the chance until my pioneer pro elite dies 151 fd kuro
This guy just slow-walked me into watching him read a scientific paper. And I loved it.
You fail to note the other issue HDR is meant to address, color banding (i.e. look at the grey wall in the background of this video). Unfortunately most video compression introduces them regardless of supporting HDR. Though it tends to be visible in HDR games.
You didn't even cover the vesa certification display hdr which seems to be gaining more popularity of a measurable metric of tiers of hdr.
Also found that weird.
Dolby Vision is for movie theatres and Netflix. HDR10 is for 4K Blu-Ray. HLG will be for broadcast TV and sports when ATSC 3.0 drops.
Even 600 nits is enough for me to feel like my eyes are burning when watching movies in a dark room.
Yes. I got a Sony A8H and I had to reduce the light massively for gaming otherwise my eyes got so tired I wasnt able to look at it for more than 30min. But I think its not the light, its the contrast. Its hrad to see that kind of a contrast at the same time. Might be better with ambient light behind or next to the TV
Yeah I got a 400 nit 4k LG . Even at 80% brightness.
It's twice as bright as my old 1080 monitor.
The main problem are reflections.. not brightness.
So based off the title and thumbnail HDR isn't fake or a scam. Very cool..
all good except some cheap tvs are double the quality of the expensive ones
the best way to tell how good the HDR is on the TV you are looking to buy is looking for the VESA DisplayHDR standard. if the display is 400 certified it can do 400 nits if it is 600 it can do 600 if it is 1000 it can do 1000 nits.
for a good HDR experience you need 600 nits at least while the 400 will give you an equal to SDR but better colours and 1000 nits being the gold standard for LCD due to how things are sampled from the data. (600 nits for Oled is a good level due to the "infinite" contrast)
What did tcl ever did to you? It's the most well rounded TV in terms of resolution and OS for most people
Save up buy a oled TV. It's just 800 bucks at most.
the problem is marketing of HDR, its definitely not a scam, but maybe 20% of devices nowdays marketed as HDR really have benefit of it, for example games HDR on my OLED LG TV have way less black crush then SDR and high peak brightness, HDR videos made by phones for example.. Dolby vision 12 bit can matter for PC gamer, you can run 12 bit HDR VRR at 48ghz if you have LG BX or C9 and B9
Well HDR means a ton for gaming. It's the more natural color HDR offers that makes it great in my eyes.
had a cheap samsung nu7100 for a year. hdr in it was like a toggle to wash out the image.
traded it for a lg b9. it's the COMPLETE opposite. everything pops out, highlights get brighter, colors get much more defined. it's awesome
Another scam I feel is colour bit depth 8bit (6 + 2) or 10 bit (8 + 2)
No, you don't understand what's required. Most don't understand that colour gamut requires brightness specs; this is why there are no 12 bit panels yet-no tv can get bright enough to meet the requirements.
@@shaynerism yes, but what I am saying is how they are marketed. 8 bit isn't true 8bit but 6+2...
@@DarkPa1adin Yeah, the marketing is almost always BS.
We're all confused with the different terms for HDR and refresh rate by the TV industries.
I would have wished for some more technical insights into HDR
Comparing photography HDR and video HDR is a huge mistake I often see people make. They’re not the same. I blame this on TV manufacturers and their marketing of HDR. It needs to be differentiated. Also, as someone who owned the exact Pioneer Kuro you mentioned, I can tell you that a calibrated Vizio P-Series Quantum series blows a calibrated Pioneer Kuro out of the water including black levels. Also, keep in mind that a 10 year old plasma will more than likely have lost over 50% of its brightness due to phosphor aging (half life being between 30,000 and 60,000 hours). Considering plasmas typically only hit around 150-200 at max brightness when brand new, well... You do that math.
Firstly, congratulations on your proposal, Quinn! You deserve every bit of it :D
Every time one of your videos pop up, I tap it _knowing_ that it's already going to be amazing! Keep up the Quality > Quantity motto! 🙃
Although I discovered your channel on RUclips only lately, l felt home right away. I usually enjoy (the story behind) kind of tech reviews like Marton of TechAltar, and really enjoyed this video (HDR) as well as your other videos. BIG thumbs up!
He really came for TCL in this vid
The video I needed a few weeks back when I bought a new TV😂 Had chosen a big juicy Samsung 75” then I found out it only had 600 nits which seems to negate the use of HDR. Returned before it even arrived and bought Sony 65” with 1200 nits. Quite a large amount of interesting studying involved.
Was this a low key jab at TCL... Cause I was going to buy a TCL tv lol
Their higher end tvs are alright. I have a 6 series (R625) and it gets VERY bright and HDR content looks great. The lower end models are the ones I think he was mostly jabbing at.
@@colonmcmurphy He should have also shown Hisense lower end models with average hdr but he didn't. This is just another channel that hates tcl.
You and many others after fomo and vincent props them up until another new one
I've been doing a lot of experimentation with HLG. It is a really cool format. I'm still fine-tuning the converter, but I have ripped a small number of my 4K Blu-rays into HLG. I have rips that can play on both SDR and HDR displays.
Recovering audiophile. lol. I still miss Headphone Mecca.
the main problem I have with all LED TV/monitors is the judder during panning scenes at 24fps... it gives me a headache. Not sure of OLED solves this...
Because of this, i still use my 50“ Panasonic 3D Full HD Plasma TV until it breaks (hope never)
We still use a 50" Pioneer Kuro plasma TV
Me too 5,700 in 2009 better than 1,500 every 3 years from what i’m hearing kuro 151 fd elite 60 inch here.
One thing I hate is with the take over of digital HD, Night or Dark scenes look strange like Ghost images or some kind of digitization is happening. It's like the computerization of the media gets confused with a dark or night scene happens
2:51 Yes, the sun is indeed very smart. /s
I have a 2016 Samsung with HDR1000 and it's totally NOT a scam. I can have complete black screen right next to a star with the star outputting so much light (up to 1000 nits) and I squint when looking at it. Combined with 10bit color processing the images you can achieve in 4K are just stunning. Now I need to upgrade to a 4K 240Hz microLED once those are actually decent price