This was all a waste of money. - Why HDR Sucks on YouTube.
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- Опубликовано: 1 авг 2024
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Many of you have been asking why we upload our videos in SDR instead of HDR. Well, we’ve been asking the same question, so let’s examine why HDR content creation is such a pain on RUclips, and what RUclips can do to help make things easier (hint: it involves LUTs!)
HDR test footage courtesy of Links TV: / @linksphotograph
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CHAPTERS
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0:00 Intro
1:34 The problem
2:45 What is HDR
3:57 Why it's hard
6:15 Look up Tables
7:55 FRUSTRATED
9:12 Dear RUclips,
10:22 an Inconvenient Truth
11:45 Outro 
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As a response to this video, RUclips will remove the HDR feature altogether and remove the ability to select resolution options to improve the experience.
We'll get 144p and LIKE it, baby!
@@ChristopherHallett that crispy 144p babyyyy
@@Thelad77 Yeah, crispy like deep-fried
They already basically did on mobile, if you select a custom resolution it'll change back to whatever RUclips wants in less than 5 minutes.
They already tried it once.
F in the chat for Colton being in the middle
I died.
@@saulgoodman2018 Colton is kind of the LMG punching bag. Tons of videos of him being "fired" or blaming things on him. It's all just in fun.
L
literally paused the video to come down and find this comment LMAO
F
You are speaking out of my soul. We have been trying to upload high quality HDR content for over 5 years. We were never satisfied or understood what RUclips was doing. Now that software, codecs and displays are mature enough to support HDR, RUclips really needs to get their act together.
It would add that little extra oomph to the already incredible videos you guys upload and I hope that we get there one day!
Just wanted to say, I love your work!!!
Just curious, if they did, would you upload new versions of your old videos in HDR?
Google doesn't give a shit about RUclips unless it's to push a narrative, or blame its users, for why youtube has copyright problems.
Stop wasting your time people dont have great HDR monitors
I'm glad it wasn't just me... I felt a tad incompetent wondering if I just couldn't figure it out. Multiple audio tracks is TOTALLY a feature that they won't roll out, too.
That would be amazing for uploading a single video with audio in different languages rather than uploading a whole another video in another language
RUclips is actually testing multi-audio tracks with small group of creators.
Bot
youtube supports multiple audio tracks since 2019(at least). Just, not for mortals...
ruclips.net/video/bz7P6K5KCxA/видео.html has multiple audio tracks lol
I always wanted youtube to support multiple audio tracks. I wanted to start a bilingual (english/french) channel back in the day without having to have two separate videos.
I've seen uploads from the Netflix account with multiple audio tracks, they have the capability to support it but I guess only companies deserve it.
It's "back in the day", not "back in the days". I have no idea why everyone started saying it wrong about 5 to 10 years ago..
This one for me is way more necessary.
@@markjohnson7887 thank you. Corrected
tom scott's video with blind girl on tom scott plus has multiple audio tracks available
Props to Colton for being the butt of tons of jokes over the years and still being a great sport about it!
i laugh so hard when i saw it hahahaha
@pro noobs venn diagram about incompetence and laziness in the first 2 mins
What was the context of the joke?
I think he gives as much as he takes, so there's no hard feelings there.
@@navneetkumar9133 did you want even the first minutes of the video?
What surprised me was back in the days before youtube supported 60fps video, they still stored the original 60fps file if thats what you uploaded. Then years later when they rolled out 60fps support, all these old videos magically became 60fps! it was great. I remember one youtuber I used to watch actually saw that coming and had been uploading all their videos in 60fps for years and years, even though RUclips didn't support it at the time.
Bhh
I actually made a playlist of videos uploaded before October 30, 2014 that support 60fps. If you know of any others, I'd love to hear
Here's hoping that'll happen with 120fps videos sooner rather than later. Would be great for sports and gaming videos to name a couple. We got the bandwidth. We got the storage and power to edit in 120 fps. Most gamers have 120Hz+ monitors, most new phones and TVs are 120Hz+ too. Heck, there's probably wider support for 120fps playback than there is for HDR.
The RUclips video player supported 60 fps playback before it supported 60 fps streaming. Just upload a 60 fps video at 50% speed then use 2x playback speed. Likewise, upload a 120 video at half speed and do the same thing. Completely stupid having a video time be twice as long as its supposed to be... But for purely experimental use, it should work for 120 fps playback.
Kliksphilip?
Hey, Linus! Thanks for referencing my HDR to SDR video! I've been thinking about doing a follow-up video about how to embed a blended Dolby Vision analysis into an HDR video file for use on RUclips. It's not full, legit Dolby Vision, but this method uses a portion of Dolby Vision's toolkit, and it's another great alternative for creating a tonemapped SDR version of your HDR videos for RUclips. Unfortunately, you still need to use RUclips's janky HDR Metadata Tool to embed it into the file... But let me know if it sound interesting to you, and I'll try to set aside some time to make that video!
um yes pls
“Is it laziness, incompetence or both”
I felt that
Its Colton
It's morbin time
Or lake of interest of the audience.
us
@@markjohnson7887 "lake of interest"
I feel like Linus could also have spoken about whether Floatplane supports HDR content, and if it does the efforts they needed to enable it.
its quite surprising how often there are obvious Foatplane plugs that they completely miss
Yeah I feel like they could have e capitalized on this saying that Floatplane would have HDR videos going forward. Instead of just complaining they would actually try to show a better example for youtube to follow.
Ain't paying for floatplane, who wants another stupid subscription..
Linus use to give us fun tech nerd news..
Now it's just look at me and how rich my company crap..
Ltt use to be fun..
Now it's just Money...
@@Powerman293 yippee another stupid subscription you will use for 2 weeks and never again.. ltt use too be fun.. now it's a money factory.. tech nerds share knowledge for free...
@@graemejohnson9025 Oh no, a company needs money to exist. The humanity
Oh? You wanted HDR? I thought you said, “Remove the dislike count.”
Imagine if Linus would've uploaded this video in HDR *just to exemplify how awful it looks on most people's displays.*
I remember MKBHD talking about it before, and running into the same issues.
HDR is still niche, but because of things like these, it'll take longer to get there.
Real HDR is not noticeable to 99% of viewers anyways, it was always a silly gimmick. Not even big budget editors and production teams care about HDR.
@@evolicious To the contrary, big budget editors and studios are the people who care the MOST about HDR, as they're the creatives who are actually moving the industry forward. All Netflix originals and Disney+ projects have Dolby Vision and many movies release with a 4K Blu-ray with HDR. The sentiment that HDR is somehow a "gimmick" stuns me, because unlike 3D video, HDR is exclusively beneficial in every conceivable way. More colors per channel/more brightness values = objectively more information = objectively more image visible to your eyeballs.
As a content creator who aspires to master in HDR myself, it's always disappointing to me when people who haven't made an effort to understand the format claim that it shouldn't exist, especially when you throw around an arbitrary figure like "99% of viewers". You may not understand or believe in HDR and that's fine, but let me ask you this: would the development of this technology have a negative impact on anyone? If the answer to that question is no, then please stop perpetuating the argument that it's a "silly gimmick". Thanks.
@@evolicious Didn’t know it was Bad Take Tuesday. Filmmakers have already had “high dynamic range” for decades because film has captured higher dynamic range than SDR video did for ages. If anything, HDR has allowed films played at home to look better than they ever have previously, more like their original theater presentation-and it has allowed prestige television to get yet another film-like upgrade in visual fidelity as the cost of acquiring higher dynamic range footage has come down. As this video points out, even high-end digital cinema cameras like RED and ARRI are capable of acquiring this kind of dynamic range and they’re still much cheaper to shoot on than film.
3D was a silly gimmick. HDR (and its accompanying wide color gamut) are definitely not.
@@evolicious someone has clealry never seen good hdr
@@JoeNokers My thoughts exactly. My first HDR TV was a cheapo set and although it was technically capable of playing the HDR content it was very dull. I too thought HDR was a rubbish technology.
Then I got a better TV and the difference between HDR and SDR is like night and day. Everything looks so much better in HDR.
I know so many people with RED cameras that spent so much money on this epic camera and then upload ungraded footage for people who are watching it on their phones... and it looks terrible
That's...mind boggling yet enlightening.
example?
watching this YT video on a 720 display and it looks fine to me. I get more value from good sound.
....... grading should be happening regardless of SDR or HDR intent, PERIOD! So one of us is missing something here.
To a degree, I have to feel like pick and commit!
As a videographer and editor I feel the struggle in this so hard.
As a CG Artist i feel the struggle in this so hard.
As a plumber i feel the struggle in this so hard-
Yes, as a carpenter I can totally relate to your definition of hard.
I feel the capability to struggling hard in this if I had anything to do with HDR
As a santient being I can feel the struggle of the human kind
youtube should open up a open source side of it where creators can submit features and all they have to do it add them if they are voted in fairly by the community. They could implement a system where only verified creators that are monetized can vote, this way they have our KYC and know the real channels. The creators that help submit features or combat spam on the platform earn an extra percentage amount on their revenue at the end of the month instead of youtube taking the full 30 percent. It would give everyone an incentive to make the platform better and they wouldn't have to wait years for updates that dont matter as much, like removing the dislike count. there are so many better things time could be spent on!
another example, creators should be allowed to also take in revenue from companies that directly advertise on their channel. The way this could work is that someone would submit an ad to your channel with an amount they wish to pay (allowing creators to also create tiers) and the creator can choose whether or not to accept the ad and where it would play during the video. This way advertisers can directly promote to their audience instead of a bunch of bots. So many advertisers right now are paying for botted views and have no idea!
Sooo what you’re saying is that they should do the Minecraft mob vote but with RUclips features 😂
@@raracool04 Because that never resulted in controversial decisions, am I right
I remember when you did your last warehouse tour and you pointed out the editing suite that was supposed to be pitch black for mastering HDR content. Unfortunate that that hasn’t happened just yet but I’m positive it’ll be amazing once you guys implement it and RUclips improves it!
Crazy how RUclips thought removing dislikes was more important than giving a better viewing experience to the users.
I know it's a funny meme, but come on.
Why would you say such a stupid thing?
It's they make money from their content creators, people watching RUclips is a given they don't care about the viewer but keeping the creators, disabling dislikes was just to keep the sensitive content creators happy
@@Jehty_ to trigger you, the beta male
More profits for shareholders is more important
gotta protect the reputation of the terrible media corporations and the lefti wing nut jobs some how... hdr isnt going to help get joe biden elected.
Perhaps the irony in this is that when I bought my first HDR capable TV, quite a while ago now. RUclips was one of the only ways you could even see HDR content at all. So it feels bad that they've apparently dropped the ball.
They just haven’t updated it. It’s not easy to find them, and should be an easy way to upload for even the novice to do.
A bunch of channels used to upload in HDR but it's being less common rather than more. RUclips needs to sort it out.
@@mrcraggle lololololol, imagine youtube caring about why 12 whiney man-children are complaining about HDR. Reality is, no one can tell the difference, and no one cares. RUclips caters to 5 billion people, you dunce.
YT didn't drop the ball. Big Hollywood studios forced them out of the HDR space.
@@ddognine Citation needed?
Thanks for using some of my footage! Super informative video 🙌🏼
This needs a ton more likes (I'm the first). Also, footage appears at 3:23
Rant included, this was actually quite an interesting topic. Even though it's applied to issues with YT, the process and considerations for HDR content is interesting enough. It helps having a real world application of the issues to apply the process to too.
The funny part is tons of content on instagram is HDR, since they easily handle user's HDR footage. RUclips is the one platform where I almost never see HDR.
Insta has its own problems tho
@@Nathansomething that doesn't excuse RUclips's incompetence in this matter...
I really appreciate this video. As someone who has only recently had the means to invest in better tech, it's disappointing how infrequent I get to leverage the extra features. It's reassuring to know that this disappointment is felt on both ends.
I never see a choice above 1080p on my device.
HDR is 3DTVs all over again, the vast majority don't care because they just want as cheap of a display as possible, even more so nowadays what with the cost of living skyrocketing.
@@staceyfunk9689 are saying you don't see the 2160p4k HDR
@@staceyfunk9689 it should if the video supports it. oyutube lets you select higher than your dispay res
@@Akilla02 I see up to 2160p in this video, no HDR option
This is a well timed video. I just bought myself a Quantom-Dot HDR600 monitor and I'm starting to realize HDR content is harder to come by on PC than you'd thing. I mainly got it for games, to be fair, but I was hoping to really enjoy video content again.
9:41 OMG! I once saw RUclips short in my mobile feed that would shoot up my brightness while playing and then drop it back to normal when I scrolled away. I couldn't figure out for the life of me why this was happening and now I finally know. Thanks!
I was wondering what happened to the plan to make the main LTT videos support HDR, so I’m glad that we got this update video.
i would love to have the confidence to upload a video of mine in HDR. I've experimented with publishing in 8k, sending a 100GB+ ProRes file, but it takes 12+ hours for YT to process it. ProRes because the M1 max MBP renders it faster than H.264 in 8k. 8k vs 4k after YT processing on the same video shows a color shift, and this is all in SDR, so I can't imagine the difference in HDR.
Creators are also experimenting with things like anamorphic 2.39 : 1 aspect ratio. Currently, you can't use end screens for those videos. It would be great if RUclips allowed creators who wanted to, the tools to experiment with features like HDR and anamorphic
Just commenting here for the memes.
A RUclips creator tried to upload HDR. This is how their account got shut down.
Emia meaning presence in blood.
HDR is a 6 year old feature on RUclips, presenting to the emergency room, unconscious.
Experimenting, you say, I've been doing 21:9 6 years ago and it worked great. No end screens? Just don't have them! Your viewers might thank you.
I mostly watch RUclips on my OLED TV, where HDR works just fine and it tells me which format it’s in. I think it’s working on my iPad too but it doesn’t flash it up to tell me in the same way. It sucks that it doesn’t look right on regular PCs though.
The first HDR content which impressed me instead of just having boosted saturation was Knives Out. The foggy nights and mornings had so much detail in their grey colours, the upholstery had such depth of colour, and the scenes with heavy light and shadow had so much detail in both. Yet it was recorded on film, which has more range than SDR, but average film has not as much as the best sensors. So I look forward to seeing where it can go in the future.
Knives out was shot digitally and edited to look more filmlike
if you are using a TV 1. turn off dynamic tone mapping. if you see Hgig than use that. 2. use Window HDR calibration tool. than things will look correct. this also helps gaming as well.
this removes the TV from adjusting the tone mapping on the fly. aka the TV is guessing and has no clue what it should be doing. This means only the OS or the game controls the mapping directing leading to a better image.
In this video you talk about the problems with HDR content on RUclips, but as a Creator I think the problems start with SDR content! I try to explain this.
I upload videos using 21:9 aspect ratio, and these are mostly in 1080p. To be more accurate, the resolution is 2560 × 1080. However, RUclips recognizes that resolution as 1080p and converts it to the default 40MBit/s Bitrate, which is suitable for a Full HD 16:9 content. However, as the number of pixels in my case is significantly higher than in Full HD, the quality becomes automatically worse, and you see artefacts like squares as a result of a Bitrate which is too low.
To confirm this theory, I also uploaded the same video in 16:9, by simply removing the pixels in excess. This resulted in no artefacts and the quality was much better. My theory is that in many cases, RUclips simply uses the wrong configurations and profiles. You have already confirmed this with HDR content.
But it is even getting worse. RUclips also uses an incorrect profile for videos in 4K, with an aspect ratio of 21:9. With this combination, RUclips deletes some pixels because it expects an aspect ratio of 2.35:1 instead of 2.39:1 (I hope I didn't mix the numbers up). The difference is minimal, but the end result is not identical.
I am aware that 21:9 is still a relatively rare aspect ratio, but newer smartphones do use displays that have an aspect ratio between 18:9 and 21:9.
In the end, I can confirm your problem about this topic, even for non HDR content. I hope it helps someone. Maybe somebody faced the same issue as me.
Great video! Developing an accessible HDR workflow for RUclips has been a bit of an obsession of mine over the last few years, so I'm glad to see one of the big tech channels covering the struggles that come along with it.
RUclips's lack of proper support for HDR10+ and Dolby Vision metadata is certainly disappointing, and something I do hope they address in the future. I agree that their default LUT almost always produces subpar results, especially compared to some of the more standard color management systems out there. I've even run into some bizarre issues whereby the SDR versions of HDR uploads suffer from strange compression artifacts which otherwise wouldn't be present.
I have been able to develop an HDR workflow for RUclips that's been working quite well for me personally, but it's highly dependent on Davinci Resolve's more advanced color management tools, and isn't suitable for Premiere (at least, not until Adobe gets their HDR act together.) I have detailed guides on my channel, but the gist of it is that I've been using Resolve's ACES color management to preview the SDR conversion of my videos while I'm editing them in HDR, then I attach a custom LUT to my video file which performs the exact same transform as the one Resolve uses internally.
By using a custom LUT during both editing and upload, I have been able to upload content in HDR without compromising the SDR viewing experience, however, the process does place some limits on the HDR viewing experience. Since the custom LUT is only static, rather than dynamic, it means that I often can't "push" my HDR color grades to be as bright or vibrant as I might like them to be without ruining the SDR conversion. Personally, I think that's an acceptable compromise while we all wait for RUclips (and Resolve) to properly support HDR10+, but it is certainly sub-optimal.
I hope that if big RUclipsrs like yourself make enough noise, RUclips might finally get their act together!
Also using ACES for my HDR workflow but the Rec709 ODT isn't the greatest tbh, much better than the standard SDR conversion on RUclips though.
I'm using a custom ST2084/2020 (P3 D65 limited) to Rec709 conversion instead, which leads to far better results, especially with colorful, bright lights.
I'm the Production Manager at LMG and have been dealing with the HDR stuff for us. It's not that we don't have a workflow (especially now that PPro supports HDR in-viewer while Resolve still requires an output card...), it's that there's no point in the additional export, upload, processing time in addition to the grading time if the HDR grade is limited by the SDR grade. If we can't push the HDR grade to be bright/vibrant for effect, then there's really no point since 95% of what we do comfortably fits within the bounds of SDR.
So, we CAN do it, I have our process documented and repeatable but it's just not worth it.
@@edzelyago2840 Yeah that makes sense :) I have found that my process does tend to lead to dimmer HDR grades than grading in HDR first and then creating a dynamic SDR trim. There is still a noticeable benefit to the HDR, in my experience, but the results are definitely milder so I can see how it might not present a very compelling upgrade, especially considering how much extra work is involved.
At the end of the day, I work in HDR largely just because I can (I'm just one guy, not a whole production house delivering dozens of videos a week) and because I like exploring new workflows and pushing the technology beyond what's required or practical. If I were producing content under such a rigorous schedule, I probably wouldn't bother either.
My dream is that someday HDR content will be everywhere, including on RUclips, but in order to get there the process definitely needs to get much more accessible and robust. Maybe someday delivering in HDR will be as simple as setting up a project, grading on an HDR display, and then ticking the right boxes in the export window. But we're just not there yet.
It may be a chicken and the egg situation, though, as well. RUclips doesn't put any effort into streamlining the HDR workflow because nobody delivers in HDR, and nobody delivers in HDR because the process is so unnecessarily complicated. Hopefully getting the word out will move the needle in the right direction :)
@@edzelyago2840 Do you even know if anyone will notice the difference between SDR videos though? I have never seen any complaints about SDR on HDR videos (on my channel, not this personal account, or others like Digital Foundry), not one. It seems like viewers really don't care about this, they would just like the HDR option that you refuse to give because of a slight difference to the SDR version that goes unnoticed.
"HDR we there yet?"
So many years and intro phrases are still creative and funny
Personally, before they work on more video options, I would prefer they work on adding options for multi-channel audio and positional audio (Atmos, Dolby DTX).
My experience when trying to use a LUT in VSDC (video editing software I use) it creates a lot of banding when there is a large area with the same color such as a wall. I just recently started using it and have gotten comments that my video quality seems to have gone down and looks somewhat out of focus. So I quit using it. I do however still edit and upload in 4K.
You are likely shooting in 8bit mode/8 bit camera. This creates a problem because you only have 255 values per color. If you do grading(Especially heavier) you want at least 10 bit.
What about hlg?
I really love videos like this. On the WAN show the other week, you discussed how your Black Magic equipment was a similar 'bust' in terms of an investment. I'd love a similar video about the troubles encountered when dealing with such _at-the-edge_ technology like that.
I did a quick search and couldn't find the WAN show episode in question but I'm interested in it. Do you perhaps remember which WAN show episode that was?
@@mariokotlar303 I found it: ruclips.net/video/qjw8ohwZ4nY/видео.html
I've tweeted at Brandon and Linus asking for more detail.
@@BobHannent Thanks!
This is interesting because it reminds me of what a producer goes through when mixing and mastering tracks
Our setup is undoubtedly more precise than your home speakers
and for some of us, we have to do sound tests because we may run into issues when it comes to playing a compressed file through a streaming service
My home speakers are a pair of Panasonic ergofit headphones, €5 on sale.
Okay but why do the movies still sound shit in theatres lol?
@@azetyler Theatres do the bare minimum for standards compliance WRT acoustics and distortion levels. The bar for compliance is from the 90's. And was generous even then. A room will be outfitted by "installers" who have massive upcharges on particular brands they partner with for the speakers and such. So you are getting an expert to deliver an inferior experience than what someone who googles what the best speakers to put in a theatre wall would be.
@@alyssacrypto okay but my point is, if theatres and homes both don't have speakers that can deliver whatever the mixer wants. Shouldn't they mix it to something that won't be so bad for most people and release a seperate version for the people who want the high quality sound.
They kind of do. On blu-ray, you have the options of using lossless codecs such as TrueHD vs lossy codecs like Dolby Digital +.
But when it comes to having two sonically different masters, it wouldnt really make sense since no two rooms are the same.
90% of the time, crappy sounding masters are due to a persons room. Small/square rooms in most households are very bad acoustically speaking.
Thank you for telling us. I've watched your channels for years and have seen your capabilities and have always wondered why you haven't done HDR 4k
Insanely good video. Very educational on several different levels and at the same time informative as to the problem at hand and why it hasn't been fixed to this point even. Absolutely amazing video.
RUclips could also easily have bothered to support multiple audio tracks so that multilingual creators don’t have to operate separate channels yet here we are. RUclips simple doesn’t give a darn
love this so much, as someone dealing with HDR daily , its infuriating how inconsistent everything is :-)
Insanely good rundown , really appreciate it, well researched!
4:20 Hahaha I love how you used Links TV’s video to showcase the HDR. I only know this because I have a Z9 myself and have seen his videos showcasing the Z9’s HDR and 8K60p capabilities.
While I'm not as worried about HDR vs. non-HDR as other things with RUclips, I really do enjoy and appreciate these kinds of technical breakdowns. I learned what HDR is on a practical level for a software package I use - YT - and that's pretty cool. Thanks Linus!
When I read the headline [This was all a waste of money.]
I thought it was gonna be about all the super expensive 8K RED cameras and property peripherals Linus has bought in the past.
I wish I could use HDR more, but even on my Odyssey Neo G9, enabling HDR in both Windows AND MacOS turns everything SDR (including the desktop and all apps outside videos) dim, grey and super washed out. So even if all new RUclips content was HDR, I likely still wouldn't be able to watch it without ruining the look of literally every other part of the UI
From my limited experience HDR in Windows 11 desktop seems way more tolerable than on 10. But still not great tho.
@@Powerman293 yeah it definitely got a bit better, way better than it is in macos that's for sure. Not sure why it's such a struggle for them though
Adjust the slider in the HDR settings to make it less washed out
Strange. It looks fine on my lg oled.
@@helloguy8934 yeah I got windows working well, just cranked the sdr brightness slider up. Mac is a different story, but it's a work machine so not really important. It might be better on the m1 machines but I don't have one yet (soon, though) - although without the Radeon GPU they apparently have a lot of problems with the 5120x1400 resolution. This one is limited to 120hz as it is
I have a stable optical wifi with 100mbps speed but RUclips always auto selects 144p quality even after changing the preference.
Its not like it can't run 4k when I select it. 😩
On that Venn diagram with Colton in the middle, I'm nearly spit my drink on my monitor!! :D Very Nice!
I would be happy if RUclips didn't always automatically set the resolution to 144p. Internet speed would be enough for 4k 60fps. But no, I have to adjust it myself every time. It is frustrating.
I use a plugin to force highest quality. It's sad that it's needed but hey, it works.
@@tharealmb What plugin is that?
just to clarify. I watch the videos on my smartphone. There are useful suggestions, but nothing that I can implement on Android.
@@fortenhu Enhancer for RUclips is the one I use; Firefox - not sure about Chrome. Pretty extensive customisation of the RUclips experience, I have it all set how I like it on a 34" UW monitor. Much better than the default RUclips experience.
I literally just bought a Hisense U8G 2 days ago and am watching this on it now. How convenient he makes an HDR video lmao.
For me out in the rural countryside in Canada my net quality is slow and really miss the way youtube used to let your preload the whole video and then when it was fully loaded or close could play it. Now on a day when the net quality is bad it can be hard to watch a video on potato quality where everything is unreadable even without it stopping to load every few seconds since now youtube only preloads a short bit ahead.
6:00 Wouldn't it be wise to have the Video spec for SDR and other non HDR video files updated to have all recording devices and codecs/software from say like 2025 must also generate tonemapping meta data as well there by being backwards compatible but it pushes forwards compatibility as well?
HDR is also still a gimmick for most because even if you have a TV/monitor that claims HDR compatibility, those important nits are one key factor in determining whether what your eyes actually see are giving you the quality that you might expect (in so many cases the answer is a resounding no).
Anyone who claims HDR is a gimmick clearly hasn't experienced HDR.
@ricky bobby well, true... But if you're still watching TV channels in 2022 you got bigger issues.
My parents have a pretty old tv it’s still 4K and reasonably bright so I considered upgrading and then realised it ain’t worth it cuz not many videos have 4K uhd or better and fewer still have hdr10 or Dolby vision even on sights like Netflix, after thinking a bit I just got them a washer and dryer and some matching shirts for their anniversary rather than going through the gruelling process of trying to explain them new tech
Not to mention that older people tend not to care too much. They enjoy what they watch regardless of whether is 100% the best, top of the line or not.
@@markjohnson7887 I think thats people in general. I game a lot and watch movies. The content matters 1000x more than how HDR it is. HDR would make it look pretty, but if its boring or poorly made content, HDR aint gonna save it.
Nearly everything on Disney+ is Dolby Vision.
@@FinnishArmy But if you have Disney+ but your HDR isn't Dolby Vision then your screwed unless you shell out for another TV.
@@karehaqt Most first party content on Disney+, Netflix, and Amazon all support Dolby Vision and HDR10. If your display doesn't support Dolby Vision, it will fallback to HDR10.
Thank you for bringing this up Linus. I've spent some decent money on a color calibrated 4k HDR monitor and Samsung 4K TV. I rarely find good looking HDR content like movies but when I do they look impressive. I hope RUclips makes it's more straightforward to upload HDR content that can also be played on SDR displays.
If you double click after James says IFIXIT it skips to “at the end of the video”
I hope someone invents something like "Smart Look up Tables"... just to make it into a fancy abbreviation
I think another big thing RUclips needs to work on is their compression. Even watching the 4K version of videos, I'm still seeing blocks float around the screen in some places. It's very distracting. Especially when it's in those areas with no moving pixels. Like the TV behind Linus. Every time he moved, the blocky pixels moved with him. Those should be a static image. Either that or RUclips needs to finally incorporate uncompressed or lossless compression in their uploads.
And not just that, but they keep re-encoding videos. A 10 year-old video will look much worse than it did on day 1. AV1 cannot come soon enough for streaming. Provided that they encode in AV1 from the source, not the already destroyed H264
@@Oshadorin AV1 is not supported on like 99% of the hardware. It will take time.
On the computer side, RTX 3000, RX 6000 and Intel Xe-based platforms were the first generation to include support for Hardware AV1. And doing it in software is too taxing for the CPU.
@@sherlockmaverick it's supported on pretty much any desktop browser and newer android phones, you don't need hardware on desktop and it's even possible to do software on mobile, although more costly in terms of battery
@@Oshadorin They seem to reencode from the source material. I think storage isn't that much of. A problem for them, only data transfer and the also won't have the original on the CDN around the world.
Good afternoon Good afternoon. First of all I want to thank you for uploading this video! I want to say something in this context, I've been uploading 4K 60FPS HDR videos from my Playstation 5 to RUclips for a short time. The Playstation 5 can record videos in 4K 60 FPS and HDR. It has an integrated recording program. At some point I noticed that some of my videos were shown on RUclips after uploading them in 4K 60FPS HDR and others ONLY in 4K 60 FPS and NO HDR! …... I wrote to RUclips several times on Twitter and explained the problem to them in detail. They also answered me properly and I also got the impression that they recognized the problem and took it seriously. They asked me for RUclips links to the videos in question and I sent them to them. Then they asked me for photos that show that some videos have HDR available and some don't. I also sent them the photos. Then I made a minute-long video in which you can see me switching back and forth between the HDR and the non-HDR video to show that one has HDR and the other doesn't. I also made it clear that this problem also occurs in other videos of mine. This is the last text I got from RUclips on Twitter a few days ago:
thx for the vid. since you've already submitted a feedback report, know that we'll investigate it carefully, but our team doesn’t necessarily respond to every single one. note: you might not get a response back, but we do check all of them & use the info you share to fix possible widespread issues
Unfortunately, I now have to upload my videos twice and three times and four and nine times until RUclips finally manages to upload them in 4K 60FPS and HDR! I always delete the remaining videos without HDR after a few days! I have to say that I find it absolutely strange that RUclips, one of the largest platforms in the world, is NOT able to upload HDR!!! very very strange! Does anyone here have a tip for me on how I can immediately upload my HDR videos to RUclips as HDR? Maybe a program that can convert the videos so that RUclips can recognize them better or something? Thanks in advance!
Always use an external capture card for best quality
@@John.bww03 je but wen you yuse a Capture card, you MUSS put off the HDR Option in your Playstation 5!
This is more to do with the video container PS5 uses for 4k HDR. Notice the file type gets locked to WebM. Simply put, RUclips doesn't handle this well. It will take days or more for the video to process and it will likely give up and not create an HDR version. Sharefactory is still extremely basic and the MP4 version rarely works either. To be 100% sure unfortunately you need to use an external capture. I was excited for the feature at launch but unfortunately Sony chose to go with an uncommon/outdated format. I spent days on this, its more a ps5 + youtube problem, webm just doesn't work, not worth the trouble.
Hey, how's with HDR support on Floatplane tho? I mean, that stuff can be at least be profitable behind a paywall to compensate for the extra bandwidth and storage
Huh, good timing on this one. I just upgraded to an HDR OLED TV this week, and was excited to see what my favorite creators were doing with it. Turns out nothing, and now I know why.
Hopefully this gets worked out soon, as even when the content isn't a flashy blockbuster, HDR still looks so much better.
Might be now that Linus ratted on the nonsense RUclips is doing something would be done soon...
Well no, there is a lot of good HDR content on youtube, it looks great. They LTT refuse to make HDR content because SDR might look slightly different. So slight that nobody will notice... Digital Foundry occasionally does HDR, there is never even one complaint that the SDR looks off, just complements on the stunning HDR.
@@kidShibuya Not sure if this is an example of that problem, but I noticed(for the first time ever) immediately from this footage:
/watch?v=zI9RlRnvn6M
Is that just bad upload or HDR->SDR being horrible?
If someone with HDR monitor could check it out and report back, I'd be interested to hear how it looks there, because for me(on SDR display) it's super muddy image, enough to immediately bother me.
@@z3dar That wasn't uploaded in HDR, just a bad upload or the vibe they are going for.
Watching in HDR on AppleTV+ is fantastic tho! Watched it on LG OLED55CX
The frcking colton on the laziness and incompetence cracked me up
Cullen Kelly a DaVinci Resolve professional colourist (on RUclips) provides a “web video lut” specifically intended to be included inside a Resolve timeline as a node. This corrects the timeline colour to correctly export to RUclips allowing for the way RUclips mangles colour.
It’s free.
It makes the video look wrong prior to delivery. Darkening shadows, raising highlights. Which is why it is used as the last node in the colour grading node tree.
It's only for SDR content.
Another crazy thing is on GCP, a cloud computing platform runs by Google. It still can't help me easily trains code a video from VP9 to AV1 (they even not good at trains code between H.264 to VP9) or easily transfer a 4K video down into 1080p, much less the (crazy) price they are trying to charge on this services (Our work shop's computer is just not fast enough to trainscode them in a reasonable amount of time). I know RUclips is developing their own hardware (TPU) to trainscode video into av1 format do it freely to make every video do from 8K resolution down to 360p resolution for millions of videos each day. And other department in google just can't use it.
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0:34 RIP Colton
This might be a silly question, but when you show the sdr vs hdr color triangles, how is it that I can see all the colors in it, even the ones outside both triangles
So what you're saying is, I'm not getting the best image quality on my six year old TracFone with a cracked screen and screen protector made out of clear package tape?
I’m currently a CS50 student and this year, their classes have been released in HDR.
Watching it on my iPhone 13, this footage looks so amazing. You truly appreciate the amount of colours and the range of Luma values you get with HDR
I own 2 older OLED TVs and I watch 99% in rec 709, even when I have the option. Except in a dark home theater they don’t offer satisfying HDR. The SDR, on the other hand, looks fantastic:)
So if 720p has a platform to mess around on, it only makes sense to make content on a wider_scale, so 480p for instance has not much of a good press, even then, it makes sense to upscale, if the quality goes down. And if the Quality is retained "during film shoots" the whole "production" benefits. :)
And yet HDR is the only way RUclips will support 480p 60fps. Oh, and on vertical videos, too
Another problem with HDR content on mobile is, that on older phones (my LG V30 for example) it's really stuttery on anything higher than 720p.
I remember having to use 480p sometimes on my first phone because 60fps video caused it to lag. That's something that sounds fixable though if youtube allowed better resolution options
The V30 isn't that old, nor "underpowered." That's just weird.
Older Android version not compatible with the latest version of YT and other video player apps I'm assuming? To a degree, older devices are just gonna get left behind, but that's seriously far from "old enough for the HDR video specs to be too much for it"
Use Dolby Vision as your rendering output, it has derived HDR10 - while YT doesn't support DV, your authoring would be simpler. You won't need to upload HDR or SDR footage separately.
Currently trying to upload HDR content to youtube. I made sure all my metadata is correct according to the HDR guidelines but my videos always end up very dim once processed.
As far as mobile goes, a lot of the video data rate is capped OR it's defaulted to a lower resolution under the new RUclips app settings. It's a pain to always change it.
On my computer it's also a pain to keep selecting HDR when possible .
Linus I know LMG has so much going on but I think a gaming leg being added to LMG like Mac Address would be such a great addition. Everything you tackle seems to get proper attention and more balanced and complete info than other outlets/channels. Keep up the great work! High five to the entire team at LMG.
I'm subscribed to Mac Address and I never see the videos in my feed. They would have to do a better job of integrating and promoting a gaming channel than they do with MA.
ha, wish granted
I loved the dig at Ijustine. You guys have such a cute friendship and I wish you did more collabs.
Another issue with RUclips is that if resolution is set to auto, it defaults to 1080p instead of max available. :(
Does anyone know the comparison between HDR and apples XDR/ Super Retina XDR?
atm, im pretty happy with the player. sure could be better, but its perfectly usable. im always hoping for multiple audio channels. would be cool to have music and voice levels split. maybe game sound and voice. maybe they could even let you edit one, if any dmca issue comes up.
For how long RUclips has been around, and the talent and money they have available, I'd say "perfectly usable" just isn't good enough, they should be innovating. Just my 2 cents
Linus: *Make everyone’s videos better, RUclips.*
RUclips: *I’m gonna pretend I didn’t hear that.*
RUclips: Nah, lets remove 4k as this will help protecting the community.
Hey linus you asked what made the ONN Premium HDMI cables "premium"? The premium supports HDR where the standard ONN cables do not.
That pic of Colton though with the laziness and incompetence…. I about died.. 💀🤣🤣🤣
you make amazing videos keep doing it :)
I understand why HDR is amazing for movies BUT for a youtube video basically reviewing tech, I see no reson to view it in HDR, I actually find it really annoying when the screen suddenly goes super bright!
that's why it is important for youtube to include A BRIGHTNESS BAR as HDR will fetch full brightness on your TV or phone. HDR looks so much better than SDR
Thank you! Imagine the amount of money Linus has wasted on 8K cameras (when no one even has an 8K display), the amount wasted on more powerful servers for editing 8K, money wasted on the storage server to store said 8K video, money wasted on editors, etc., etc.. All for something that no one in his audience actually cares about.
@@markjohnson7887 I would not say that it is all wasted money though since recordning in 8k gives you a lot more flexibilty when editing, although I agree that they are trying to achive quality which is unnecessarily good
@@kooooooooooorvar For sure. I mean, only about 40% of people own even a 4K TV for example. And by the time 8K TV's/Monitors are popular, all of Linus' 8K content will be irrelevant and no one will be watching it. lol
WOW! I didn't know it was still an issue. I hope they fix it soon. Since I've seen HDR videos and they are worth the viewing experience.
I have a problem with the steam data where he says since we are running 1080p or less which are almost certainly not HDR i use a 4k HDR tv as my monitor for my laptop in 1080 for gaming because my laptop does not have the power to game at 4k but i certainly do use HDR still
I think the problem lies in system API:s, that expect pixel data to be 8 bit sRGB per channel. This means that even though my monitor can display 10 bits per channel, and my input file is encoded in 16 bit float, I am stuck at sdr because of an outdated software stack.
Honestly, I think a lot of the lackluster demand for HDR video content is because of the overdone ultra-sharpened and saturated HDR photos that took off when it first became available. Everybody was shooting them and uploading them. None of them look good or right, they are always used in real-estate listings; but most importantly, they are ALWAYS trash.
That is the one advantage of the .mkv format, that metadata can be added along with the video/audeo content. Plus it saves about 10 to 30 percent file size compare to the old .avi contaner format. Note the video data is exactelly the same, just placed in a different container.
Im fighting to be able to upload an HDR video using Davinci Resolve. The video plays well in my computer but I'm not able to make youtube recognize it. Anyone can help?
" Trust takes years to build, seconds to breaks and forever to repair"
That's an amazing quote right there 🥰.
RUclips just doesn't improve and only breaks.
And not his, of course. Not sure if he credited the person that said it so many years ago or not. Couldn't be bothered watching a video complaining about RUclips not supporting something when it doesn't have to.. Because none of the viewers care.
I think it all comes down to the fact that it's the majority of people don't have a display that support 4k + HDR. When it becomes industry standard like it already is for new streaming content, maybe then they will reconsider.
I've been slowly moving my physical media from BD to UHD and HDR is THE game changer and would love all of the media I watch to include HDR
0:36 oh man that Colton bit killed me
I tried running my HDR TV on my mac, but mac doesnt even properly support HDR lol, its like how you describe the tone mapping, any SDR content is compressed to a super small part of the actual dynamic range. Its insane how little such a popular technology is supported by these tech giants
The only way to get HDR on a Mac without crazy expensive equipment (I heard there are some expensive adaptors for it) are the new Pro MacBooks, or the Pro Display XDR. Anything else won't show HDR.
@@gfrewqpoiu “the only way to get HDR on a Mac without crazy expensive equipment is with crazy expensive equipment”
I have no interest in apple products, they are little more than bad expensive paperweights
That reminds me a bit about my confusion (back around 2005-2015) after hearing how important 10-bit was for photographers and graphic designers (so that they could get the colours just right) and how many of them used Macs and had done that for years and swore by them and their colour accuracy.
Now, that in itself isn't too weird, until you realize that Macs (AFAIK) didn't start supporting 10-bit until (OS X) El Capitan, in 2015.
@@959_MC If you have no interest in Apple products, why are you complaining that macs don’t support HDR?
@@959_MC if you don’t like apple products then why do you have a Mac
I can't think of a single time I've wanted to watch LTT in anything greater than 720p
My 4k 32 inch PC monitor is HDR 600 capable, but I literally never have HDR on. Why do Windows' colors and SDR content look so bad and washed out when HDR in turned on?
i kinda wana get an HDR gaming monitor now, but I'm not sure witch one to get.
If RUclips just adopted it and did it correctly, the “standard” will be raised to HDR
I think it was a failure not uploading this video in HDR so we could actually see how detrimental it was to quality. I would have actually gone a step further and made it two parts. Part 1 in HDR and Part 2 in SDR to show how funky the colors get between them.
I just stumbled on an awesome clip from Prehistoric Planet and was weirded out by how bad the white balance and or tonemapping is.
/watch?v=zI9RlRnvn6M
I figured it was because the footage was in HDR and youtube converted it badly for SDR, but clearly there are major problems with the whole HDR situation.
It'd be interesting to hear from someone with HDR display if that clip looks good or still muddy.
It could be... Perhaps beyond 1080p the gains aren't as ground breaking as with the jump from 144p to 720p then to 1080. 👀👀🤔
Whoa! @4:22, the saturation on the big screen, the one on the right, is so high. It might be just my personal preference, but when I see "glowing" colors, (when they are really over saturated) the image looks almost cartoonish, and at the same time, of course, less natural to my eyes.