Great video ,my hero as as teenager just getting into bodybuilding his approach made so much sense . I was lucky enough to attend a seminar in the Uk ran by Menzer just after the Australian Olympia farse. After taking a load of dumb questions from the audience following his lecture (90%of which sailed over the heads of the attendees) he gave up and asked do you just want to see some muscle? Stripping down to his posing shorts on stage he was in phenomenal shape.
haha great story - reminds me of that Simpsons' episode where Mark McGuire asks the assembled crowd whether they want to hear "the terrifying truth" or "watch him sock some zingers!"
I saw Mike's routine in iron man magazine in the 80s and I disregarded the wisdom. I continued wasting my time. But about 4 years ago , youtube algorithms brought me to this Man of men again and it changed me for the better. I will remember Mentzer for ever and I will make sure that I will play my part in continuing his memory. RIP.
Far and away the best documentaries on bodybuilding and its personalities. Very much appreciate your insights. Mike was a tormented soul in the wrong “sport”. Ahead of his time. Thanks again.
Thanks Anthony - my video and commentary was only a shred of what the book covers, so I encourage everyone to support the author for the full story written much better than I could ever do it justice with here
What a ripper review, Shawn is fast becoming the King of Bodybuilding’s stories from yesteryear! After trialling higher volume/higher frequency with poor results, it was a revelation to stumble across Mike’s lower volume approach which I adapted to suit myself, yielding pleasing results. Mike’s physique is timeless and was a great combo of mass and aesthetics. Well done to Nicholas in creating this book, I hope more people take the time to check it out. I love that quote about “rejecting mediocrity”, something we all need to take on board, instead of embracing “The Tall Poppy Syndrome” Merry Christmas, Shawn, keep up the fantastic content! 🙏🎅💙
Yes which is why I included pics of both of them in the footage relating to the "twin towers" of American power collapsing around the same time they both died
Mentzer was a man that bought an honesty to body-building that Arnold never did. His training philosophy wasn't as scientifiicaly productive as he believed but it was also going against what Arrnold preached which many aspiring trainers tried to emulate with disastrous results. Train twice a day 2 hours at a time, 6 days a week. Even Arnold didn't train this much according to the men that trained with him. Also he never mentioned the role of genetics and PEDs. It's like train long and hard, believe in yourself, take weider supplements and you too could look like me. Mentzer went against this dishonesty to say hey you're gonna overtrain and the role of genetics will determine what you will look like not lifting weights for 12 hours a week. Mentzer made people question thing to say less is more. This is what infuriated Arnold. Arnold wanted to be the man everyone listened to, even though he knew his train philosophy wasn't practicle for non steroid trainers. For him to make a comeback in 1980 and win a controversial decision hurt Mentzer as he realised that being the best means nothing. Just like politics. It ain't the best man for the job that will be elected rather the guy everyone likes, regardless of what policies are implemented. It's a shame how Mentzer went of the rails after this. He realised the world is corrupt whether in politics or even an obscure endeavour like body-building. Honestly, sacrifice and hard work didn't always prevail. Regardless of all that transpired Mentzer's legacy lives on with his book being a a valuable collectors item and his training philosophy being discussed endlessly to this day on social,media. People will,always seek truth no matter how much people try to bury it. This is why people are so divided today. Too many people want to believe in abject bullshit cos it makes em feel warm and fuzzy. There are hundreds of genders, socialism is the only way, women are just as strong as men, joe biden is an honest politician and Trump is pure evil. Kamala Harris worked at McDonald's and never slept her way to the top. The whole world is full of shit and it's up to individuals to figure out reality.
Some great insightful takes there mate! Mentzer’s Heavy Duty philosophy, while not perfect, gave people permission to think critically about what actually works for them instead of blindly following what the mags and especially, Arnold preached to everyone's detriment. You're absolutely right about Arnold's training philosophy being impractical for most people-especially natties. It’s crazy how the "train harder and longer" mantra overshadowed the reality of PEDs, genetics, and individual limitations - again thanks to the mags and Arnold Mentzer exposing that dishonesty struck a nerve with Arnold, whose brand relied on being seen as both the ideal and the authority. The 1980 Olympia was a real turning point-not just for Mentzer but for how many people viewed bodybuilding. It exposed that even a sport as niche as this isn’t immune to politics and B.S Mentzer’s disillusionment with that probably mirrors what a lot of us feel when we realize merit doesn’t always win in the real world, be it sports, politics, or anything else. I also think you're spot-on about why Mentzer’s legacy endures. He made people question things, and questioning-whether it’s about training, society, or broader truths-is a fundamental part of growth. It’s fascinating how his story ties into the broader cultural landscape you mention and the book both dive into. People gravitate toward comfortable narratives, but figures like Mentzer remind us to dig deeper. Thanks for this-at the end of the day, no matter what people think of his Heavy Duty philosophy etc, Mentzer’s message of ‘less is more’ is still a powerful antidote to a world which often glorifies doing more, no matter the cost
In a sense Mentzer is still fighting in Valhalla... As his training philosophy keeps coming back in a cycle, just like a pendulum. Arnold the antithesis of Mentzer... lives strong, well his philosophy does... and is the opposite end of that pendulum swing. The fitness market thrives on the dichotomy, just like Pepsi and Coke. They remind me of that Star Trek Episode "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield" where Lokai's and Bele's races battle each other to death.
@@carvedouttastone A solid video, I'm interested in getting the book now. What's one to do, pick integrity, riches or both? I think Mentzer stands on his square, at least he was seeking truth or facts, that's admirable even if he wasn't always right. I think Mentzer's true appeal is about being a self determined man, using the intellect to achieve personal perfection, to achieve certainty in a wild world. As for the video, what's to say? Solid quality footage as always communicated via our humble narrator poetically and clearly. Respect.
I am expecting the Book as a Christmas present after being asked what I wanted. Your interview with the author was fascinating and piqued my interest. I have all Mentzer's books co authored with John Little and showing Mentzer in his prime. He is definitely a bodybuilding hero and definitely onto something, even if it is not the last word on training. I like the way you showed Bill Pearl, who was a massive influence on a young Mentzer. They both share masculine, rugged physiques. After your review, I'm even more intrigued by the book and the man. I know you have yourself been changed in your opinions after the enlightening read and have dumbfounded Mentzer critics.
Yes the book mentions Pearl as one of Mentzer's clear early influences - and Pearl mentioned he was amazed that even at a young age, Mike would engage him with interesting and in depth questions Be sure to let me know your thoughts on the book also. I'm hoping more people engage with it, because without the support of the buying public, we won't have these opportunities of people with a brain like Nicholas taking on these massively creative projects. I'm already worried with the increased ramping acceleration of AI, we're not even going to have a content creation ecosystem resembling anything related to the concept of "quality" - The Iron Historian's and their ilk - the moronic cretins who pour out their clicks, likes and comments for some AI chatbot who just shat out another spliced together video - might just well be the future 🤷♂️
@carvedouttastone I always thought that Bill Pearl bowing out of the judging Duties due to a conflict of interests over Chris Dickerson was really a distraction from the true reason. I think he could see the writing on the wall and did not want to participate in Arnold's subterfuge. He is critical of Arnold's decision to compete in 'Total Rebuid'. Always the adult in the room. A class act who knew how to play the game unlike Mentzer. Any man who tries to be good all the time is bound to come to ruin among the great number who are not good. Hence a prince who wants to keep his authority must learn how not to be good, and use that knowledge, or refrain from using it, as necessity requires. Niccolo Machiavelli There is alot of AI dogsh*t on RUclips. It is a concern, but there will always be a market for human excellence. The way that AI is programmed not to offend makes it mealy mouthed and it lacks a point/punch. You have soul and are salty- a great combination.
In a way Mike and Arnold were polar opposites to one another to see which one prevailed stronger. The way I see it Mike had more integrity and grace than Arnold (while I'm not taking away his accomplishments) had only money, politics, and in the grand scheme of things he cheated on his wife and Joseph was born. I hope Joseph learns what not to do of what his father did especially in 1980 Olympia.
Well said and at the same time reminds me of that Biblical verse - Mark 8:36, "For what does it profit a man to gain the entire world and forfeit his soul in the process". I think that perfectly captures the essence of men like Arnold - not a criticism - it's just their programming
I think he was a fitting and needed chapter in the history of the Iron Game. Without these iconoclasts and rebels, the morons and company men that inch this sport along the road to nowhere, operate only to the collective detriment of the many. We need the Mentzers, the Priests, the Rays etc not only to ask their questions, challenge the status quo and shake things up from time to time Heavy Duty was and still is a great hypothesis - it's not the entire puzzle solved, but it presented an alternative framework to the existing Bodybuilding SOP of the day. I still think many of his foundational principles are bang on the money compared to Arnold's bullshit 5 hr splits that the magazines were advocating
Heavy Duty reality is fine. When properly implemented you make objective progress on every training session. Muscle growth is a slow process for a natural even when they are doing everything right with training, sleep, nutrition, etc. Heavy Duty methodology ensures that on the training front you can avoid spinning your wheels with junk sets and failing to make measurable progress from workout to workout. And as each workout is relatively brief, you can also have a life outside of the gym as well.
TBH, I will always remember Arnold with what he used to be. I hate what he's turned into, especially when it came to the lockdowns, mandates and restrictions which he supported. Losing his mind on those who refused the jab. Calling Trump supporters Nazis, etc.
I went into a lot of Arnold's modern day motivations and bitterness in my Trump vs Arnold vid - but I think a lot of his recent rhetoric is motivated by jealousy from not fulfilling his dream to become president together with the fact that one of his arch rivals/nemesis (Trump )is now two-time holder of that office.
Mike sure didn't like Arnold's high volume approach. And actaully in reality most people that try and adopt Arnold's approach will find themselves overtrained. On the other hand some people just can't grow and good results on 1 set per exercise, per body part. You have to experiment to see what your body responds to the best. Regardless I like Mentzers approach a little more than Arnold's.
I sort of fell for Arnolds methods, but not as many sets. It is effective. I also tried Mentzer's method too, and it is kind of brutal. I am not sure most could do it. It sounds lazy, until you try it. I think perhaps the best would be to mix it up using both training styles in cycles. It is odd that both Mentzer's died so close together. This is just a rumor, but some suspect foul play. I saw Ray a good while before he died, and he was definitely sick. Mike gets so much attention, but Ray had a more pleasing, and symmetrical physique. Mike looked more like Hercules.
Thanks for your feedback binatyflat. Yes, you hit upon my own training philosophy there, rotating volume blocks with HIT blocks to keep it fresh and progress consistent. And yes, definitely strange about the Mentzers dying so close together. My interview with the author of the this book delves into that more - and also my chat with former Gold's Gym owner Ed Connors also revealed some interesting info I hadn't quite heard before... Thanks for watching mate
Your essays are inciteful and excellent as always. Thought you'd write about of cult of worship of , "Heavy Duty" and Mentzer cult of personality in spite of his resentful descent through madness and amphetamine psychosis. I think allot of the evidence of the state of Mentzers psychology can be revealed from Heavy Duty. Mentzer never changed his position in spite of evidence. A modern Icarus but also very much a Cassandra.
@@vancouvercomedyuncensoredv8240 I love the Cassandra and Icarus reference - speaking my language there :-) I think the book reshaped some of my previous misconceptions about Mike. I have more empathy for how a life can become unravelled so quickly - just like the melted wax on wings exposed to the heat of dream's unforgiving glare. Thanks always for your comments and kind words. These encouragements keep me going
Disagree with this statement. Mike's downfall wasn't solely due to integrity, for starters. He was arrogant, abused multiple drugs, suffered from depression, and opted to speak in lofty rather than relatable terms. I know this from working with him personally. He could have packaged the same ideals in a way that allowed for greater mass consumption, but his own folly and personality quirks made that impossible. It's a fallacy to lump that in with "integrity." One might argue that true integrity, assuming one wanted to change the world with one's ideas, would demand mastery of delivery of said ideals. You don't have to water them down, but you do have the responsibility to communicate them in a way that can be received. Mike chose not to - or simply refused to learn how. That, along with a real raw deal from the sport itself (can't blame him for any of those hard feelings) gave way to cynicism. Then the downward spiral. So, while Arnold is a traitor to the American ideals that created him, as well as a deeply unethical human being, Mike was self-abusive and introverted to the point of being narcissistic. He had integrity for sure, but misplaced and used as a blockage rather than a bridge.
@rationalmuscle - you've raised some great points about Mentzer's downfall and the role of integrity in spreading ideas. I'd agree that his arrogance, mental health struggles, dr*g use and communication style limited his ability to reach a wider audience. I'd say his rigidity wasn't just a refusal to adapt-it seemed tied to his perfectionism and internal conflict, making it hard for him to compromise. I would argue that he did try to temper his delivery and message with the formation of his own magazine (WORKOUT MAG) which toned down the bodybuilding aspect making it more palatable for the general public - a forerunner of Men's Health magazine which simplified his ideas for mass consumption. Alas, some financial and legal complications sunk that ship before it could effectively leave harbour. As for integrity, I like your metaphor of it being a bridge rather than a blockage. That said, part of Mentzer's appeal lies in his uncompromising nature-it's why his philosophy remains iconic within a niche audience today. His intellectual, philosophical approach to bodybuilding, while perhaps alienating to some, deeply resonated with those who appreciated the marriage of physical culture with rational thought. Many of his followers were drawn precisely because he refused to "dumb down" his message. Arnold on the other hand was very adaptable in his messaging - but it's also something which has eventually compromised his legacy.
Mentzer was a fascinating figure and a forward thinker, but he was also pathologically arrogant and his own worst enemy. He said that the purpose of his life was to pursue and achieve his goals, but he refused to compromise or adapt. He could have learned from the loss in 1980, adapted his methods, and come back better then ever. Instead, he let the anger he felt wreck his career and eventually his life. The whole idea of being a philosopher is supposed to be about learning from life experience and understanding that we all experience challenge and disappointment in life, but we can learn and grow from our experiences if we are willing to get over the pain of having our egos hurt when things don't go our way. Mentzer never learned that lesson. IMO, his fall and early death was largely due to his own hubris. Thanks for posting a thoughtful and interesting perspective.
@@JT-vb5gr thanks for those thoughts and taking time to compose them. Yes, I have thought similar things also - but I think the book explains the nuances behind those contradictions with a little more finesse than I alone could express in reply. Some would call that being an apologist perhaps, but humans are always a little more complex than we could ever apply labels to - and yes, I think I'm even guilty of doing the same in the past many times, but I'm also trying to be more thoughtful and measured. I think one thing the author and I cleared up in our interview together is that after 1980, many people think Mentzer collapsed under the weight of that defeat - but in reality, he actually benefited tremendously and really attracted a lot of attention and acclaim - but his life did hit a few personal obstacles which derailed him and the story showed to me how quickly one's life can go from "hit" to "shit" very quickly - no pun intended Thanks for watching - hopefully this made some sense - I've got Covid again and it's killing me lol 😂
Good point. Platz benefited enormously from his 1981 Olympia loss to Franco and incidently stayed with Mentzer for the competition, which proves despite the boycott he was not that bothered. He championed Platz heavily after the result. Platz handled it as the consumate professional he is and permanently won a place in the hearts of bodybuilders everywhere. Platz made a ton of money for his personal appearances, but his personal life suffered as a result of his unremitting travel schedule.
@@carvedouttastone I am interested in reading the book. I started following Mentzer in the early 90's when he wrote for the Weider magazines. Most of what you would find in those magazines was boring, ghost-written stuff coming from Weider contract bodybuilders who all said the same things. But Mentzer was a critical thinker who wasn't afraid to call out lies and B.S. He knew how to make a good case for everything that he said. Most of it made sense and was at the very least worth listening to. He was always thought provoking. Menzer did make some loyal friends, and many of them defend him to this day, although they acknowledge his extreme eccentricities. One thing that can be said is that he was a man of principle. But he always thought in terms of black and white - "I am right and you are wrong if you disagree, I know and you don't know, and I have the truth and if you disagree with me you are not only wrong but probably evil". Personally, I find a lot more peace in life the more I recognize that there are many things that I don't know, that every person and every belief system in this world has nuance, and that people who disagree with me often have some very good points. What I often find in life these days is the need to find balance, not go to extremes in various ways. Thanks again for providing an intelligent perspective on the "iron game" and examining the shadow aspects of it all, instead of just staying on the surface of things. I will check out that interview and the rest of your video library, which looks to have a lot of interesting stuff in it.
As always, a thought provoking work. But I feel you're a bit off the mark, MM descent into madness can be traced back to his philosopher of choice, Ayn Rand, and her philosophy of objectivism. Everyone adopts a philosophy and that philosophy becomes the lenses we see the world through *puts on eyeglasses in a slow and deliberate manner* Mike destroyed himself by adopting the philosophy he did, Ayn Rand set Mike's doom in motion as soon as he put on the Objectivism glasses, in reality he wasn't the free thinker he thought himself to be, he was an intellectual slave to Ayn Rand.
With all respect meant, I don't think you have the full story on that one. He was a fan of many other philosophers than just Rand - more than anything I'd probably ascribe Mentzer's psychological descent to a combination of amphetamine/drug abuse - loss of his parent/s - breakup with longtime GF Cathy - financial problems and loss of his self started magazine. It's something that I'll discuss more with Nicholas or even John Little about in future interviews as I'm not the expert - just what I've gleamed from my reading/research I can see how the philosophy of Rand could have contributed to the self contained mind prison Mike eventually found himself bound to tho...
@@carvedouttastone He of course read broadly and no doubt had many influences this describes all of us after all, but his predominant influence was Rand. I remember his writing about this, he even contended, per Rand, that a fully developed mind did not need much sleep and could handle amphetamines and thus be more productive. There's a reason Platz found him in the gutter outside Gold's, drug abuse. Rand's philosophy led to drug use and drug use killed both Mike and Ray.
Thinking your right is one thing- but knowing your right is another! Mike was and will always be the man!
Definitely a seeker and closer to the truth than most of that era. Made a dent in the annals of the sport for sure.
Great video ,my hero as as teenager just getting into bodybuilding his approach made so much sense .
I was lucky enough to attend a seminar in the Uk ran by Menzer just after the Australian Olympia farse. After taking a load of dumb questions from the audience following his lecture (90%of which sailed over the heads of the attendees) he gave up and asked do you just want to see some muscle? Stripping down to his posing shorts on stage he was in phenomenal shape.
haha great story - reminds me of that Simpsons' episode where Mark McGuire asks the assembled crowd whether they want to hear "the terrifying truth" or "watch him sock some zingers!"
I saw Mike's routine in iron man magazine in the 80s and I disregarded the wisdom. I continued wasting my time. But about 4 years ago , youtube algorithms brought me to this Man of men again and it changed me for the better. I will remember Mentzer for ever and I will make sure that I will play my part in continuing his memory. RIP.
@@peterlampropoulos3505 you should definitely grab the book - it definitely honors Mike's legacy
Excellent video, always well thought out and perfectly narrated
@@naturalolympia that's massive praise coming from you, one of my most respected historians - thanks very much John 🙏
Far and away the best documentaries on bodybuilding and its personalities. Very much appreciate your insights. Mike was a tormented soul in the wrong “sport”. Ahead of his time. Thanks again.
'pro' bodybuilding is always the 'WRONG SPORT !!' No money, constant PEDS by the gallon. Jim Manion's BS 'Pro Card' ?? Total scam.
Thanks Anthony - my video and commentary was only a shred of what the book covers, so I encourage everyone to support the author for the full story written much better than I could ever do it justice with here
What a ripper review, Shawn is fast becoming the King of Bodybuilding’s stories from yesteryear!
After trialling higher volume/higher frequency with poor results, it was a revelation to stumble across Mike’s lower volume approach which I adapted to suit myself, yielding pleasing results.
Mike’s physique is timeless and was a great combo of mass and aesthetics.
Well done to Nicholas in creating this book, I hope more people take the time to check it out.
I love that quote about “rejecting mediocrity”, something we all need to take on board, instead of embracing “The Tall Poppy Syndrome”
Merry Christmas, Shawn, keep up the fantastic content! 🙏🎅💙
Great video good to see you back
Cheers thanks for checking in Joe
Hell yeah great video friend!
@@Themilkman95 thanks milkman - you are literally like the Milkman of old - always arrives when I need him and never missed a beat :-)
@@carvedouttastone Thankyou good sir 🫡
Mike Mentzer the Golden Child 👑
one of the legends for sure
His brother (Ray) was also sacrificed on the vanity of ideals
Yes which is why I included pics of both of them in the footage relating to the "twin towers" of American power collapsing around the same time they both died
Mentzer was a man that bought an honesty to body-building that Arnold never did. His training philosophy wasn't as scientifiicaly productive as he believed but it was also going against what Arrnold preached which many aspiring trainers tried to emulate with disastrous results. Train twice a day 2 hours at a time, 6 days a week. Even Arnold didn't train this much according to the men that trained with him. Also he never mentioned the role of genetics and PEDs. It's like train long and hard, believe in yourself, take weider supplements and you too could look like me. Mentzer went against this dishonesty to say hey you're gonna overtrain and the role of genetics will determine what you will look like not lifting weights for 12 hours a week. Mentzer made people question thing to say less is more. This is what infuriated Arnold. Arnold wanted to be the man everyone listened to, even though he knew his train philosophy wasn't practicle for non steroid trainers. For him to make a comeback in 1980 and win a controversial decision hurt Mentzer as he realised that being the best means nothing. Just like politics. It ain't the best man for the job that will be elected rather the guy everyone likes, regardless of what policies are implemented. It's a shame how Mentzer went of the rails after this. He realised the world is corrupt whether in politics or even an obscure endeavour like body-building. Honestly, sacrifice and hard work didn't always prevail. Regardless of all that transpired Mentzer's legacy lives on with his book being a a valuable collectors item and his training philosophy being discussed endlessly to this day on social,media. People will,always seek truth no matter how much people try to bury it. This is why people are so divided today. Too many people want to believe in abject bullshit cos it makes em feel warm and fuzzy. There are hundreds of genders, socialism is the only way, women are just as strong as men, joe biden is an honest politician and Trump is pure evil. Kamala Harris worked at McDonald's and never slept her way to the top. The whole world is full of shit and it's up to individuals to figure out reality.
Some great insightful takes there mate!
Mentzer’s Heavy Duty philosophy, while not perfect, gave people permission to think critically about what actually works for them instead of blindly following what the mags and especially, Arnold preached to everyone's detriment.
You're absolutely right about Arnold's training philosophy being impractical for most people-especially natties.
It’s crazy how the "train harder and longer" mantra overshadowed the reality of PEDs, genetics, and individual limitations - again thanks to the mags and Arnold
Mentzer exposing that dishonesty struck a nerve with Arnold, whose brand relied on being seen as both the ideal and the authority.
The 1980 Olympia was a real turning point-not just for Mentzer but for how many people viewed bodybuilding. It exposed that even a sport as niche as this isn’t immune to politics and B.S
Mentzer’s disillusionment with that probably mirrors what a lot of us feel when we realize merit doesn’t always win in the real world, be it sports, politics, or anything else.
I also think you're spot-on about why Mentzer’s legacy endures. He made people question things, and questioning-whether it’s about training, society, or broader truths-is a fundamental part of growth. It’s fascinating how his story ties into the broader cultural landscape you mention and the book both dive into. People gravitate toward comfortable narratives, but figures like Mentzer remind us to dig deeper.
Thanks for this-at the end of the day, no matter what people think of his Heavy Duty philosophy etc, Mentzer’s message of ‘less is more’ is still a powerful antidote to a world which often glorifies doing more, no matter the cost
In a sense Mentzer is still fighting in Valhalla... As his training philosophy keeps coming back in a cycle, just like a pendulum. Arnold the antithesis of Mentzer... lives strong, well his philosophy does... and is the opposite end of that pendulum swing. The fitness market thrives on the dichotomy, just like Pepsi and Coke. They remind me of that Star Trek Episode "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield" where Lokai's and Bele's races battle each other to death.
@@badmyse1 let me know your thoughts 🙏
@@carvedouttastone A solid video, I'm interested in getting the book now. What's one to do, pick integrity, riches or both? I think Mentzer stands on his square, at least he was seeking truth or facts, that's admirable even if he wasn't always right. I think Mentzer's true appeal is about being a self determined man, using the intellect to achieve personal perfection, to achieve certainty in a wild world. As for the video, what's to say? Solid quality footage as always communicated via our humble narrator poetically and clearly. Respect.
I am expecting the Book as a Christmas present after being asked what I wanted. Your interview with the author was fascinating and piqued my interest. I have all Mentzer's books co authored with John Little and showing Mentzer in his prime. He is definitely a bodybuilding hero and definitely onto something, even if it is not the last word on training.
I like the way you showed Bill Pearl, who was a massive influence on a young Mentzer. They both share masculine, rugged physiques.
After your review, I'm even more intrigued by the book and the man. I know you have yourself been changed in your opinions after the enlightening read and have dumbfounded Mentzer critics.
Yes the book mentions Pearl as one of Mentzer's clear early influences - and Pearl mentioned he was amazed that even at a young age, Mike would engage him with interesting and in depth questions
Be sure to let me know your thoughts on the book also. I'm hoping more people engage with it, because without the support of the buying public, we won't have these opportunities of people with a brain like Nicholas taking on these massively creative projects.
I'm already worried with the increased ramping acceleration of AI, we're not even going to have a content creation ecosystem resembling anything related to the concept of "quality" - The Iron Historian's and their ilk - the moronic cretins who pour out their clicks, likes and comments for some AI chatbot who just shat out another spliced together video - might just well be the future 🤷♂️
@carvedouttastone
I always thought that Bill Pearl bowing out of the judging Duties due to a conflict of interests over Chris Dickerson was really a distraction from the true reason. I think he could see the writing on the wall and did not want to participate in Arnold's subterfuge. He is critical of Arnold's decision to compete in 'Total Rebuid'. Always the adult in the room. A class act who knew how to play the game unlike Mentzer.
Any man who tries to be good all the time is bound to come to ruin among the great number who are not good. Hence a prince who wants to keep his authority must learn how not to be good, and use that knowledge, or refrain from using it, as necessity requires.
Niccolo Machiavelli
There is alot of AI dogsh*t on RUclips. It is a concern, but there will always be a market for human excellence. The way that AI is programmed not to offend makes it mealy mouthed and it lacks a point/punch. You have soul and are salty- a great combination.
In a way Mike and Arnold were polar opposites to one another to see which one prevailed stronger. The way I see it Mike had more integrity and grace than Arnold (while I'm not taking away his accomplishments) had only money, politics, and in the grand scheme of things he cheated on his wife and Joseph was born. I hope Joseph learns what not to do of what his father did especially in 1980 Olympia.
Well said and at the same time reminds me of that Biblical verse - Mark 8:36, "For what does it profit a man to gain the entire world and forfeit his soul in the process". I think that perfectly captures the essence of men like Arnold - not a criticism - it's just their programming
Well done! F your freedom brought me back to heavy duty.
@@jayfinn6698 Mentzer knew then what Arnold was all about. Just took the rest of us time to catch up
Good to see you back ! Perhaps the concept of Heavy Duty and , by extension Mentzer himself was better than the reality?
I think he was a fitting and needed chapter in the history of the Iron Game.
Without these iconoclasts and rebels, the morons and company men that inch this sport along the road to nowhere, operate only to the collective detriment of the many.
We need the Mentzers, the Priests, the Rays etc not only to ask their questions, challenge the status quo and shake things up from time to time
Heavy Duty was and still is a great hypothesis - it's not the entire puzzle solved, but it presented an alternative framework to the existing Bodybuilding SOP of the day. I still think many of his foundational principles are bang on the money compared to Arnold's bullshit 5 hr splits that the magazines were advocating
💯
@@carvedouttastone I say Amen to that!
Heavy Duty reality is fine. When properly implemented you make objective progress on every training session. Muscle growth is a slow process for a natural even when they are doing everything right with training, sleep, nutrition, etc.
Heavy Duty methodology ensures that on the training front you can avoid spinning your wheels with junk sets and failing to make measurable progress from workout to workout. And as each workout is relatively brief, you can also have a life outside of the gym as well.
@shawnm4189 the theory fits into a neat box - theories don't always translate into complex realities
you're a good writer 💪
@@dracandros thank you. I don't think so yet - but I'm always trying to improve it over time
TBH, I will always remember Arnold with what he used to be.
I hate what he's turned into, especially when it came to the lockdowns, mandates and restrictions which he supported.
Losing his mind on those who refused the jab.
Calling Trump supporters Nazis, etc.
I went into a lot of Arnold's modern day motivations and bitterness in my Trump vs Arnold vid - but I think a lot of his recent rhetoric is motivated by jealousy from not fulfilling his dream to become president together with the fact that one of his arch rivals/nemesis (Trump )is now two-time holder of that office.
Mike sure didn't like Arnold's high volume approach. And actaully in reality most people that try and adopt Arnold's approach will find themselves overtrained. On the other hand some people just can't grow and good results on 1 set per exercise, per body part. You have to experiment to see what your body responds to the best. Regardless I like Mentzers approach a little more than Arnold's.
I sort of fell for Arnolds methods, but not as many sets. It is effective. I also tried Mentzer's method too, and it is kind of brutal. I am not sure most could do it. It sounds lazy, until you try it. I think perhaps the best would be to mix it up using both training styles in cycles. It is odd that both Mentzer's died so close together. This is just a rumor, but some suspect foul play. I saw Ray a good while before he died, and he was definitely sick. Mike gets so much attention, but Ray had a more pleasing, and symmetrical physique. Mike looked more like Hercules.
Thanks for your feedback binatyflat. Yes, you hit upon my own training philosophy there, rotating volume blocks with HIT blocks to keep it fresh and progress consistent.
And yes, definitely strange about the Mentzers dying so close together. My interview with the author of the this book delves into that more - and also my chat with former Gold's Gym owner Ed Connors also revealed some interesting info I hadn't quite heard before...
Thanks for watching mate
Your essays are inciteful and excellent as always.
Thought you'd write about of cult of worship of , "Heavy Duty" and Mentzer cult of personality in spite of his resentful descent through madness and amphetamine psychosis.
I think allot of the evidence of the state of Mentzers psychology can be revealed from Heavy Duty.
Mentzer never changed his position in spite of evidence.
A modern Icarus but also very much a Cassandra.
@@vancouvercomedyuncensoredv8240 I love the Cassandra and Icarus reference - speaking my language there :-)
I think the book reshaped some of my previous misconceptions about Mike. I have more empathy for how a life can become unravelled so quickly - just like the melted wax on wings exposed to the heat of dream's unforgiving glare.
Thanks always for your comments and kind words. These encouragements keep me going
In This World...Integrity Always Loses.
Disagree with this statement. Mike's downfall wasn't solely due to integrity, for starters. He was arrogant, abused multiple drugs, suffered from depression, and opted to speak in lofty rather than relatable terms. I know this from working with him personally. He could have packaged the same ideals in a way that allowed for greater mass consumption, but his own folly and personality quirks made that impossible. It's a fallacy to lump that in with "integrity." One might argue that true integrity, assuming one wanted to change the world with one's ideas, would demand mastery of delivery of said ideals. You don't have to water them down, but you do have the responsibility to communicate them in a way that can be received. Mike chose not to - or simply refused to learn how. That, along with a real raw deal from the sport itself (can't blame him for any of those hard feelings) gave way to cynicism. Then the downward spiral. So, while Arnold is a traitor to the American ideals that created him, as well as a deeply unethical human being, Mike was self-abusive and introverted to the point of being narcissistic. He had integrity for sure, but misplaced and used as a blockage rather than a bridge.
@rationalmuscle - you've raised some great points about Mentzer's downfall and the role of integrity in spreading ideas. I'd agree that his arrogance, mental health struggles, dr*g use and communication style limited his ability to reach a wider audience. I'd say his rigidity wasn't just a refusal to adapt-it seemed tied to his perfectionism and internal conflict, making it hard for him to compromise.
I would argue that he did try to temper his delivery and message with the formation of his own magazine (WORKOUT MAG) which toned down the bodybuilding aspect making it more palatable for the general public - a forerunner of Men's Health magazine which simplified his ideas for mass consumption. Alas, some financial and legal complications sunk that ship before it could effectively leave harbour.
As for integrity, I like your metaphor of it being a bridge rather than a blockage. That said, part of Mentzer's appeal lies in his uncompromising nature-it's why his philosophy remains iconic within a niche audience today. His intellectual, philosophical approach to bodybuilding, while perhaps alienating to some, deeply resonated with those who appreciated the marriage of physical culture with rational thought. Many of his followers were drawn precisely because he refused to "dumb down" his message.
Arnold on the other hand was very adaptable in his messaging - but it's also something which has eventually compromised his legacy.
@stevespeyrer1804 - I don't think it necessarily loses - it just plays the long game
The quality of the comment section alone makes this channel worthwhile. The originating content makes this channel interstellar.
Excellent video Shawn
The methzers bros are my favourite bodybuilder duo
Wow.
Poetry
@@AnsrMax the book has the same poetic feel I've tried to replicate here. Thanks for commenting with a very kind compliment
Mentzer was a fascinating figure and a forward thinker, but he was also pathologically arrogant and his own worst enemy. He said that the purpose of his life was to pursue and achieve his goals, but he refused to compromise or adapt. He could have learned from the loss in 1980, adapted his methods, and come back better then ever. Instead, he let the anger he felt wreck his career and eventually his life. The whole idea of being a philosopher is supposed to be about learning from life experience and understanding that we all experience challenge and disappointment in life, but we can learn and grow from our experiences if we are willing to get over the pain of having our egos hurt when things don't go our way. Mentzer never learned that lesson. IMO, his fall and early death was largely due to his own hubris.
Thanks for posting a thoughtful and interesting perspective.
@@JT-vb5gr thanks for those thoughts and taking time to compose them. Yes, I have thought similar things also - but I think the book explains the nuances behind those contradictions with a little more finesse than I alone could express in reply. Some would call that being an apologist perhaps, but humans are always a little more complex than we could ever apply labels to - and yes, I think I'm even guilty of doing the same in the past many times, but I'm also trying to be more thoughtful and measured.
I think one thing the author and I cleared up in our interview together is that after 1980, many people think Mentzer collapsed under the weight of that defeat - but in reality, he actually benefited tremendously and really attracted a lot of attention and acclaim - but his life did hit a few personal obstacles which derailed him and the story showed to me how quickly one's life can go from "hit" to "shit" very quickly - no pun intended
Thanks for watching - hopefully this made some sense - I've got Covid again and it's killing me lol 😂
Good point. Platz benefited enormously from his 1981 Olympia loss to Franco and incidently stayed with Mentzer for the competition, which proves despite the boycott he was not that bothered. He championed Platz heavily after the result. Platz handled it as the consumate professional he is and permanently won a place in the hearts of bodybuilders everywhere.
Platz made a ton of money for his personal appearances, but his personal life suffered as a result of his unremitting travel schedule.
@@carvedouttastone I am interested in reading the book. I started following Mentzer in the early 90's when he wrote for the Weider magazines. Most of what you would find in those magazines was boring, ghost-written stuff coming from Weider contract bodybuilders who all said the same things. But Mentzer was a critical thinker who wasn't afraid to call out lies and B.S. He knew how to make a good case for everything that he said. Most of it made sense and was at the very least worth listening to. He was always thought provoking.
Menzer did make some loyal friends, and many of them defend him to this day, although they acknowledge his extreme eccentricities. One thing that can be said is that he was a man of principle. But he always thought in terms of black and white - "I am right and you are wrong if you disagree, I know and you don't know, and I have the truth and if you disagree with me you are not only wrong but probably evil". Personally, I find a lot more peace in life the more I recognize that there are many things that I don't know, that every person and every belief system in this world has nuance, and that people who disagree with me often have some very good points. What I often find in life these days is the need to find balance, not go to extremes in various ways.
Thanks again for providing an intelligent perspective on the "iron game" and examining the shadow aspects of it all, instead of just staying on the surface of things. I will check out that interview and the rest of your video library, which looks to have a lot of interesting stuff in it.
As always, a thought provoking work. But I feel you're a bit off the mark, MM descent into madness can be traced back to his philosopher of choice, Ayn Rand, and her philosophy of objectivism. Everyone adopts a philosophy and that philosophy becomes the lenses we see the world through *puts on eyeglasses in a slow and deliberate manner* Mike destroyed himself by adopting the philosophy he did, Ayn Rand set Mike's doom in motion as soon as he put on the Objectivism glasses, in reality he wasn't the free thinker he thought himself to be, he was an intellectual slave to Ayn Rand.
With all respect meant, I don't think you have the full story on that one. He was a fan of many other philosophers than just Rand - more than anything I'd probably ascribe Mentzer's psychological descent to a combination of amphetamine/drug abuse - loss of his parent/s - breakup with longtime GF Cathy - financial problems and loss of his self started magazine.
It's something that I'll discuss more with Nicholas or even John Little about in future interviews as I'm not the expert - just what I've gleamed from my reading/research
I can see how the philosophy of Rand could have contributed to the self contained mind prison Mike eventually found himself bound to tho...
@@carvedouttastone He of course read broadly and no doubt had many influences this describes all of us after all, but his predominant influence was Rand. I remember his writing about this, he even contended, per Rand, that a fully developed mind did not need much sleep and could handle amphetamines and thus be more productive. There's a reason Platz found him in the gutter outside Gold's, drug abuse. Rand's philosophy led to drug use and drug use killed both Mike and Ray.