RTX 4090 - Finding the problem can be challenging | Should you avoid buying Prebuilt PC ?
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- Опубликовано: 14 окт 2024
- 👉Need a repair? krisfix.de/en/...
👉KrisFix Shop: www.gpufix.de
👉Question about repair: service@krisfix.de
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Tools and parts used in this video:
👉Thermal Pads of all sizes:
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👉BGA Reballing Gel No Clean IF8300:
www.gpufix.de/...
👉FluxPlus 6-412-A No-Clean (NC):
www.gpufix.de/...
👉High Precision Tweezers - AAA-14:
www.gpufix.de/...
👉Mechanic R300 Desoldering Wick:
www.gpufix.de/...
👉MECHANIC UV Solder Mask:
www.gpufix.de/...
👉Wylie Solder Lugs :
www.gpufix.de/...
👉Dental Drill Bur Adapter 2,35mm zu 1,6mm:
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👉Polishing Silicon Bit:
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#gpu #repair #krisfixgermany
Kris is the real genius, absolute professional knowledge and skills. Thanks
Absolutely 💯
first time i watched someone fix this kind of problem north ridge fix wouldn't attempt it good job!!
Kris has to have the steadiest hands in the world. Incredible work as always.
Man, this is crazy, i didnt even know this level of repair is possible with modern PCBs, usually they just junk the thing and give you a new one, real good job, not only are you basically saving perfectly functioning cards, youre also preventing E-waste, i dont understand why companies dont do these levels of repairs anymore.
Guess its cheaper to replace than hire actual talent, or idk, not fucking outsourcing everything to china and india where they do a dogshit job.
Keep up the good work! A real learning experience and a treat to watch.
Thank you
Excellent content, as usual, Kris. Thank you for bringing us on this little excursion in board repair.
Well that was a super informative video ! I'm glad I discovered your channel when DerBauer broke his card and had to send it to you for repair.
On a side note, before discovering your channel I was wondering if tech shops near me would do repaste jobs for GPUs as I don't feel confident enough in my own skills to not break something in popping it open. Goes without saying that after seeing your videos I'll be shipping the card to you instead. Might be more complex logistics-wise and a bit more expensive but I'd rather spend more money and be 100% sure that everything's OK ^^
Strange how entertaining I find these repair videos
I've never attempted to do anything like this nor likely will I ever
But I've enjoyed every one of the vods you've posted that have popped up on my feeds so far
the Master of all Masters; I could not dream of attempting such a repair, let alone to do it so thoroughly well and in such a time frame
There are not a lot of people around the world who does this job at this level of knowledge and precision.
at 20:24 , you can clearly see extra solder ball in between the solderballs at the edge of memory chip.
Solder stretches when chip is pulled up.
Nothing to see here.
@@northwestrepair yeah; on second look :)
I hope I never need your excellent work sir.
A bit lighter but I got my 3080 in a prebuilt back in February 2020. Packed well, never a problem. Pull it out for cleaning occasionally, runs cool and fast.
Played all day yesterday at 2375-2400MHz, 350w, stayed in the upper 50's with my setup. PNY Revel 3080 10G
Why do they even put traces in that area and why cant they reinforce it?
And even more important: why do some companies even install the gpu before shipping?
It should always be separately packed for this exact reason (after testing of the pc of course).
@@breakingyourlegs Exactly! Its a gpu death sentence 😁
@@breakingyourlegsdunno man. Ofc these cards are large and heavy but i got my prebuild from MIFcom and they used a lian li anti sag mount but also the expanding foam packaging... Not problem at all...
It all boils down to how much effort and care the system builder puts into packaging and shipping.
@@thenutsonyourchin ok, well then it should be at least the foam and the so called "gpu support stick" or something similar as was said by the other reply.
I think, placing very fine traces on a multilayer PCB in prone-to-damage that close to the edges of the card in stress areas is planned obsolescence. clever and mean at the same time. In case of such a fault they can void the warranty: "nothing was wrong with the card, the fault is caused clearly visible by a mechanical force."
When designing the fault intentionally (impossible for them not to be aware of these frequent flaws) it is a high value fraud, I think. However it would be very difficult to legally prove any wrongdoing: being careless or just 'stupid' is a human right.
Just two of the many other cases that come to my mind are:
1. LED TVs (models from a large, well-known manufacturer) failing in series soon after the warranty period: large electrolytic capacitors of the power supply directly above the hot semiconductor heatsink, it was possible to plan almost to the hour when they would dry out. placing the capacitors somewhere else on that PCB would have resulted a PS unit of almost eternal life.
2. Both fuel pump motors in my German made premium car failing around 100k km. After the expensive replacement, I forcefully disassembled the faulty ones (they were sealed, not repairable, and it was also some struggle* for me to even get the faulty pumps from the repair workshop, acting as if they were accomplices, not giving away evidence in these sophisticated scams):
My inspection results: the copper plates on both rotors were worn completely by the brush. I measured the copper plate thickness as 0.1mm on the still intact (where the brushes did not touch) area. Designing it with a 0.2mm thick copper plate instead would have resulted €0.00000001 more cost for them to manufacture, and another 100k mileage for me.
*they said, it is on the grounds of environmental protection, they have to dispose of the faulty parts 'professionally'. Btw. I think, it is precisely for environmental reasons that one of these scammers could be caught legally some time by a sly lawyer.
I wrote it already some time ago when you attempted to fix a card for der8auer. This is Magic. You are a Wizard!!! 👍
This is good to know, common sense always told me when customer wanted a custom PC build sent out, I only agreed when they confirmed to be competent enough to be able to install the GPU on their own, I ship the GPU separately in it's original packaging. And only water cooled PCs could be shipped out, air coolers are too heavy and when the package takes a hit it will deliver a huge shock load to the board through the CPU and the socket, water cooling block and pump is much lighter.
This is borderline magic !!!! Amazing stuff every time i watch such a talent !!!
Only correct orientation is in a vertical gpu mount, and take gpu out of the system during shipping.
guy you are the man i love your channel good work !
It is insane how small the PCB is for the most powerful 40 series card out there!
Small PCB but the RTX4090 card with cooler on is HUGE... It was 5cm longer then my old GTX1080ti that is also huge and would not fit in my cube case so I had to mount it on the outside with PCI-E extender cable.
Yeah... every time I see these 4090s "stripped" I can't believe how small the actual PCB is. I used to own an MSI Aero ITX 1060 (one-fan cooling solution) and I'd bet the 4090's PCB isn't much larger than that tiny 1060's.
@@1SaGyeah that's a lot of mass. I wish gpu AIO was a normal thing. You'd get a much smaller card with similar temps. Potentially less of this type of damage happening too.
Endlich ein neues und informatives Video. I love it.❤
Great video, info and repair. Surly the system builder should have replaced the card or system if there was shipping damage? Or at the very least paid for the repair!
That's what I thought as well. If this was shipping damage, the store should have just replaced the GPU. I mean... customer can't use warranty now.
I have almost 0 hardware experience but I somehow had the brains to realise something is wrong before I bought my 7900xt. when I measured my case for the card I realised most of the card will be hanging in the air...
One quick search I found out that support brackets exist and I'm happy because no pc build tutorial online bothered to tell me I'll need one.
It's worth it to do research and build your own instead of wasting money on prebuilt and getting broken parts..
High quality and very informative video I came from watching a der8auer video, I know where i'll be sending any of my cards to get fixed if required. Subbed & liked😁
Support bracket should 100% be a part of any PC building tutorial online and should be mandatory for corporations and case makers to send you one.
A reliable metal support only cost a few extra euro but the companies too greedy 🤦🏻♀️
Nah if you think about it why should it be kitted with the case when not all cases will need a GPU? Let's say we make the GPU manufacturer supply one. Then the question arises why it even needs to exist, why they didn't make the cooler subassembly stiffer and why they haven't connected it mechanically to the IO bracket? The whole support bracket business didn't need to exist if expansion board companies were just doing their job.
As to PC prebuilt manufacturers, they use a chemical packing bag for shipping. They put it in the PC around the GPU and within a few hours while the assembled PC is waiting for shipping truck, it cures into a rigid foam that you remove prior to use. The same way, other torque failure prone components such as tower CPU coolers can be secured.
For a nearly $2000 part, you would think these companies would be able to make a PCB that wouldn't fracture under normal use
impressive work!
I was surprised he didn't re-tin and wick the three pads that he replaced. The surface on those pads looks oxidized. Either way, the solder job works, so it looks like another happy customer.
Great video learned something again, thanks👍
Cool video, nice to see how that grinding pen does
The real question is: if this arrived in this state from a prebuild, why isn't he just requesting the shop to remedy the damage?
Possibly second hand sale of a prebuilt computer. When they ship them originally, they pack them up with a chemical bag that expands, cures into a rigid foam, and locks the card in place. But first owner throws it away.
Cards with more use from 1 slot are doomed to fail after some time. Why companies don't release brackets is beyond me.
Excellent content. Thank you very much.
Next Level of Repair . Thank you
I could see solder balls not touching RAM chip in the video, but you were saying everything looks ok.🤔 So i waited, and knew it was going fail RAM test. I hate movies where you already know who-done-it. It was Colonel Mustard, in the library, with a candlestick.🤣
Nice work as always!
Super Videos! Kannst du mir verraten welchen Lötkolben du für die T-Spitze benutzt? Verkaufst du die Sachen vielleicht auch?
*Love your work wish i can learn it*
*Planning to buy ROG ASUS 4090 OC will it be more durabile? Or the TUF is better maybe LIQUID SUPREME X MSI 4090 cause dont weight a lot just like old gpus?*
just do a vertical mount
Mount it vertically and forget it
But how do you know if the A1 reball didn't resolder the F chips errors.
Probably overkill - lol -, but have you thought about putting a vacuum cleaner on one side of the crack and pulling epoxy through the crack, because I don't see 2 part epoxy penetrating. In the auto world we use high capillary Loctite and vacuum the part so it penetrates fully.
Amazing job!
If it was a prebuilt damaged by their own shipping method (card inplace) it should be under warranty... this is annoying if the vendor isn't taking responsibility
Need Tools Tour that you have, especially bga work station brand & type
Wie immer ein tolles Video :)
Try out the poster tack around the grinding. It will keep the copper in that area.
Nice job 👍👍👍👍👍
i would have after epoxying the hook locking connector have adding some thin layered epoxy sheet too the shape of the hook connector on either side too add strength and rigidity for longevity so it doesn't happen again ..
The Grand Master of GPU repairs with another great fix. I wonder what software tools he is using for diagnosing? Anybody knows?
Amazing, what model amscope camera do you have???
This really is the truth, almost all of these issues are caused by user error, or shipping in a prebuilt. This doesn't look like a gigabyte card (which btw has the same PCB opening near the slot as the NVIDIA FE card, funny how no one complained about those), and yet the damage is still there, and it can happen on any card, but if you sell a lot more cards than another manufacturer, it's much easier for headlines to see a pattern and report on it without that many facts. J2C is one of the biggest of those responsible for misrepresenting the damage and skewing people into making worse buying decisions.
💩
Today's graphics cards are heavy, and there's only one good solution. SUPPORT BRACKET. If your PC builder worries more about looks, over system reliability, then find one who is competent. Or you can keep shaking your PC and listen to screws rolling around inside.
Exceptional knowledge and skill.
Greeting. Can you tell me, in your opinion, which graphics are of better quality to buy? Nvidia or Radeon
I just put the heaviest GPU I've ever owned into my PC (GB RTX 4070 Gaming OC). I didn't weigh it, but from what I can find on the web, it's just under 1.5 kg. Which is over 500g lighter than, say, the 4090 Gaming OC, but I'm still wondering what the weight limit is above which one should be worried about the PCB cracking. This particular card didn't come with a support bracket and it doesn't seem to sag, but I'm still a bit paranoid about this porker of a GPU. Also: My mainboard's PCIe-slot is steel reinforced (MSI Z690 Tomahawk), but is that really a helpful feature with these heavier cards or is it just a marketing/visual gimmick? I can't help but think that a reinforced PCIe-slot won't do much if the problem is the GPU's PCB cracking at a weak-spot.
Pin isn't damaged mine did it from day one gigabyte 4090, mine comes out without a wiggle, just shit gigabyte parts obvviously
How can the lifted pads actually create issues if the traces are not broken like in this case? Even if the pad on the board lifts, a proper connection is still there as long as the pad is still securely soldered to the pad on the memory chip...
Good question. I bet the solder balls were starting to pull away from the pads, or break free. Increased resistance can cause all sorts of issues in high speed signaling.
If it's not just the weight, I wonder if they are skimping on how many sheets of FR4 they press together between the multilayer sheets (a micrometer reading should tell...this board should be 62mil thick). It's possible they are only making them 59mil (another common circuit board thickness) and that might be enough to compromise structural integrity under the load of the massive heatsinks mfrs put on higher end GPUs. I've only seen reports of this particular issue happening to Gigabyte boards lately, so I wonder who made this OEM card.
The three mil will not make a difference. they could meet the thickness requirement with changing the prepreg thickness. Its a structural failure given there is no support other than at one end of the board. These huge cards can apply a big load on the motherboard and connectors during shipping. Its a disaster waiting to happen. The industry should clean up their acts and add more structural support for these outrageously large video cards. The other part I don't get is why the vendors add so many traces in that area of the board where there are known failures from cracking. The circuit traces should be nowhere near the area. They could even flood the area with a ground or power plane for additional copper reinforcement.
i think its time we go back to the good ol 1990s flat, sideways cases xD ... man now im soparanoid about my card with its stupid support stick and a random crash i had today
halo Kris, i have a question, my plan is to buy Zotac 3060Ti - ZT-A30610F-10PLHR , can yot tell me from your experience, what memory chips he got, samsung or hyniks ?
I really dont understand why traces are even put in that area and afaik this is more of modern thing, because I've broke 2 cards in that exact area back in the day and the cards worked with no issues. Please correct me if im wrong about that.
These GPUs also come with anti-sag brackets. I'm guessing those prebuilt sellers don't even bother putting them on? Or maybe shipping is so harsh that anti-sag bracket is not enough to protect the GPU from breaking.
Depending on the brand you might just get a little stand that gets screwed into the gpu to support it from sagging, nothing that really mounts into the case itself. That kind of support wont be nearly enough to prevent damage when the system gets shipped.
the main issue that this GPU is so massive that it would be hard to ship it safely with the GPU installed on the PC. It can be done of course like including lots of padding inside the case (anti sag is only useful if the PC stay stationary), but there will still be consistency problem with doing the padding. Personally I would suggest the buyer to be able to install a GPU or maybe avoid the cheapest shipping option (or more correctly, avoid shipping service that is known to handle items rather roughly).
Hey this is my card that I sent in.. cool to see it repaired! I'll be sure not to make the shipping mistake again!
Mount it vertically from now on to avoid any further cracking, a lian li riser and case with vertical mounting points (which is common) should be priority.
Wieder was neues gelernt, danke
Dyem. I dono whats happening.. but seing something is getting fix specially Gpu is nice to watch..
Like im watching IRONMAN doing mechanic works..hhahaha
Nice work but one question. How do you even find out about those two pads creating the problem under the memory chip? Did you poke around for hours until you gained that knowledge because that seems to me so hard to notice just from visual inspection.
I'm guessing these pads must of lifted off similar boards from previous multiple ram repair jobs. Gathered experience tells you it's a common problem. Not something you learn at your first rodeo 😄
Why your damageing gpu
Why did you change the pad
Sometimes we have to reball
Vram chip
EXCELENT KRIS YOU ARE A CRACK MAN, I HOPE SEE YOU IN GERMANY, ALL A PROFESIONAL, BIG HUGS FROM CUBA
you are amazing!!!
Hello, Thank you for videos, enjoying so far.
Maybe you can help me, I have 3 video cards, 2x1080 and 1x1060, all cards have right voltages, no shorts anywhere, they just have no video out and not detected by BIOS, GPU gets hot as normal when started, my guess dead GPU?
Is it that Zotac OEM 4090 that prebuilt companies love to use?
The E-number points to Zotac's preferred contractor for manufacturing. But they supply a number of brands.
@@SianaGearz I actually grabbed one of those cards used as they are the absolute cheapest 4090 that I can find.
in 20:02 what is that sir,i want buy this to remove the Solder
grazie
PSU single rail 12V or Multi rail 12V?
I wonder what brand this gpu is. Gigabyte ?
PNY
Ehrenmann ❤
Ur a genius
What is the brand of the GPU?
what brand card and prebuilt
What is brand tool for analyzer VGA?
Is it even possible to secure a mounted 4090 enough for shipping? What would that look like, if so? :) Cheers
Instapak
Yes and no. OEMs like Dell and HP have "custom" cases that have fixtures that can secure a card. But prebuilds in normal consumer cases (or normal AIB cards like Asus etc.) can't be secured. The major problem is how those PCs are handled in transport.
You could place shock/tilt sensors on the outside and inside and once they are triggered, your card can be dead on arrival. In that case the transport company could be made liable, but only if it is insured.
16 gauge steel wire
@@RonnieMcNutt666 And how you want to put it on? If the PC is tilted upside down in shipping, it wont help. :D
How much does such a repair cost?
Shouldn't this be able to be rma'ed being that it's a new high dollar card. The repair for it has to be a high cost.
CSI Kris! 😂😬
Who manufactured this card?
PNY
Is that Palit card?
The quality of 4090 for that huge price is a garbage imagine the profit from it !
man i am sooooooooooooooooo jealous i wish i had your brain for just one day Kris lol
Interesting fault. I'm guessing this must be quite common with these power hungry cards. Thanks for sharing 😉
Amazing
👍
Holy shit, pads just peel off like tin foil off of chocolate bars. And these are top tier consumer cards.
Ich hab mir die Intel Karten für meine Arbeit gekauft, weil ich seit der GTX 1000er Generation keinem Hersteller mehr über den Weg traue, was die Qualität ihrer Karten angeht. Intel hat geliefert, wenn ich mir die Karten nackt ansehe. Da ist saubere Qualität verarbeitet worden und ich hoffe, das ich damit einen guten Kauf gemacht habe, statt bei Nvidia ins oberste Regal zu greifen, eben 2x 750 und 2x 770 für das gleiche Geld. Aber man hat auch gefühlt mehr davon. Ab jetzt, wird es für mich ein Lottospiel werden, weil ich bei euch Fixing RUclipsrn auch schon genug professionelle Karten unter eurer Lupe betrachten durfte. Klar werden Fehler gemacht, aber es scheint, als würden die System werden, damit die Lebenszeit der Hardware verkürzt wird aufgrund der Tatsache, das Moores Gesetz schon lange Tod ist und man sich eben was einfallen lassen muss, um dem Kunden immer wieder was "Neues" verkaufen zu können. Ist wohl wie in allen Bereichen der Industrie geplante Obsoleszenz. Ich wünsche dir alles Gute und ich Danke dir für das Teilen deiner wirklich sehr Wertvollen Inhalte. Liebe Grüße Sascha
I think we can all agree that we all are disappointed from the latest generation of graphics cards, they are really making some fragile products that cost a lot and break easily
Well, it is either conspiracy "make them break faster so they would buy another one faster"
Or it can be just that weight of modern cards basically forces special treatment, especially in prebuilts
Tbh, this one was really small comparatively, but still seems very impactful nonetheless.
Cards were always able to break and have PCB damage due to mishandling. The only reason you read about it is because the cards are expensive now and there is nothing else for the clickbait news sites to cover. I guess no one noticed that the 4090 released over 8 months ago, but its only now that people decided to talk about it, as if something magically happened with the cards. Except what actually did happen is the cards got cheaper so more people are buying them leading to more broken cards by definition.
@@DimkaTsvPlanned obsolescence is not a conspiracy, it's a well established fact especially when a company has a monopoly.
There's a reason why corpos churn out new products every year while offering little to no ability to fix like Iphone for example.
Good metal support brackets barely cost a few euro and Nvidia is well aware of that but they're too greedy to add one.
@@CordeliaAurora Not only is it not a conspiracy, America's core financial plan is Keynesian economics.
The common problem with pre-builts is that they are junk……..pure garbage. Couple a 40 series card with low end components. They do it all the time and that’s how they sell them.
So, GPU manufacturers (in this case NVIDIA) making overpriced chips, pushing less and less profit margins to board manufacturers, so they cheap out as much as possible in the manufacturing process and components, and then the pre build companies putting the cherry on top sending you the pc with the card mounted.
Amazing times to buy a graphic card. Specially top of the line 2000€ like this one.
As always, amazing job.
One question. This graphic card was sent to you by the final costumer or the pre build company?
90% of the board manufacturers dont even use custom PCB , they just put 2kg cooler on same thicknes pcb they make for years
❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
Definitely avoid buying prebuilt PCs.
👍🙏❤
Hey Kris. Please make more direct video! :)
Use dyi 4090 kits
Wizardry
This shit is not worth that much money!!! U pay fair and sguare and they givu u this crap that is cracking everywhere!!!
From my experience with Nvidia cards, i think their PCB is crap. I've been working in audio field for a while and our crapiest player was far more capable than anything frim NV from power distribution to heat dissipation, not even talking about noise. These cards are craps, look how much decoupling they require 😮. Also they need the most efficient power supplies to run flawlessly.
This company is the biggest US crap manufacturer 🤦🏽♂️