I Really Can't Stand Mechanical Keyboards
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- Опубликовано: 14 июл 2024
- I've used plenty of mechanical keyboards but I've never found a switch type that I really like, they always feel like a downgrade from my personal choice of scissor switches. Is it because I've used a laptop for so long, probably, but you know I like what I like.
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==========Time Stamps==========
0:00 Introduction
0:45 What I Use Instead
2:15 How Do They Work
2:51 Tiny Travel Distance
3:36 Short Switch Body
4:48 Typing Volume
6:04 Key Weight
6:39 Only Learn One Key Type
8:03 One Issue
8:38 Finding Scissor Switch Boards Is Hard
11:52 The Best Alternative
12:27 Closing Thoughts
13:19 Outro
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Thank You! Finally someone that appreciates a scissor switch. The short throw and snappy response is the way to go. I don't see how someone can game with a long throw mechanical key. Just like stated in your video, its hard to find a quality scissor switch keyboard with keys that are solid and stay level when pressed from any part of the key. I'm just waiting for someone to make a backlit per-key programable model.
There some nice looking compromise called Kailh X which are basically a scissor switch but designed to be more like a mechanical switch
Cherry Stream. Yes that Cherry.
I know this is a bit late, but I ended up going with the slim w1 (wired version, but there is an x1 wireless one) and it feels great. It has an aluminum shell and types like a scissor switch Mac keyboard (coz it’s a scissor switch keyboard).
Unfortunately no per key programmability or gaming keyboard rollover but the keyboard itself feels solid :)
@@milk_bath I've just ordered the Cherry Stream TKL, looking forward to how it performs.
@@ScrubTurkeyDreams Hope it works well for you. I'm hoping a wireless TKL is released.
I've seen people cancelled for less
🤣
💀💀💀
The problem with finding a cheap backlit scissor switch is that almost all are wireless.
What I hate the most about mechanical keyboards is how much they cut out essential features for a premium. You would pay 50 dollars for a stripped down keyboard thats missing almost half of what every keyboard should have but then if you want the number pad and dedicated media keys, the price will jump from 50 to 200 dollars. This is ridiculous.
Where have you ever actually seen this outside of maybe gucci "custom" boards? I've literally never paid that much for a conventional full size mechanical keyboard.
How did someone think that going from a flat keyboard back to a literal typing machine was a good idea? And actually convinced so many people?
As someone who is on the mech train, I'd like to say that I agree with you. Use the tool that is the most comfortable to you, opinions of others be damned. Not many people in the mech community understand this though. I enjoy typing on them, but I know my father hates these things with a passion as he is super used to typing on laptop keyboards.
Also. "I type by the way it feels, not by how it sounds"
You hit the nail on the head. The mech community is nowadays all about this weird obsession with sound. I really don't get it. I stuff my keebs full of sound dampening foam and call it a day. I want it to feel good, feel smooth, not sound "marbly", or "thocc'y" - like, who cares? I prefer listening to music, not listening to the same keyboard typing sounds when I am listening to my favorite albums when I'm doing something at my PC. Sure, a nice sounding keyboard is preferable, and gives off a premium feel each time you use it, but sound is not the reason we go for mechanical keebs. I want smooth operation from the switches, consistent behavior and feel, which mechs can deliver due to the long life span due to their nature, compared to rubber domes, which eventually get mushy and soft overtime, and in general disgusting to type on when the rubber starts to fall apart after enough use.
I've had a logitech dinovo edge switch keyboard for over a decade and it still feels like the day it bought it.
sound dampening foam?
wouldn't that increase the chance of "not pressing the button hard enough"?
@@Bloodhoven Mechs can be dampened by filling out the hollow spaces within the chassis with sound absorbing/dampening foam, i.e.between back of the case and PCB, between PCB and front plate where the switches sit. Further sound dampening is possible by lubricating the switches and springs with PTFE grease and derivatives (commonly used Krotox 205g0).
More sound dampening is possible through adding "gaskets" on contact points (i.e. poron switch pads between switch and pcb), special gasket mount type chassis, using soft o-rings on contact points to eliminate resonance / vibration / sound transfer.
Even better sound dampening can be achieved by the use of Silent switches, which have tiny silicon dampening / landing pads on the sliders.
I've got an expensive mechanical corsair, and when I mash the enter key there's a loud ring that happens. Drives me nuts!
@@CoredusK Corsair boards tend to have exposed aluminum plates, which makes them tend to ping a lot. I think it is entertaining and have even swapped switches into them I think will make them ping even more, to each their own.
If you want boards that don't do that, you want a different material plate than aluminum. Just about every other material is better in that regard.
you ain't the only one Brodie. I tried mechanical keyboards and I also can't get used to them as my typing speed drops significantly. I however would like to try the new Keychron K3 which is a low-profile mechanical keyboard that seems to bridge the gap.
The mechanical keys vary as much as any keyboard. Cherry mx on Alienware laptops will leave you wanting nothing more.
@@amifiii265 I don’t know anything at all about what you speak, I mean I kind of do, but I don’t think about keyboards like that. I just know I’ve used cheap Walmart keyboards, and I have an Alienware mechanical keyboard (it sucks), but the X17 R1/R2 CherryMX mechanical is clicky, satisfying, and doesn’t feel mushy. You know when you press a key, and yes I’d say that they’re light on travel and low height. I seriously never want to use anything else ever again.
you wanna maintain the typing speeds, you gotta press harder lol which will perhaps break some keys and it will definitely wear your fingers. mechanical keyboards are simply not worth it
@@deathrager2404 How on earth will you break keys? What will "wear your fingers"? I've been typing on mechanical keyboards almost exclusively since 2013-2014-ish. I'm a very fast typist and do one hell of a lot of typing, even opting for relatively stiff switches. I've got no related injuries whatsoever, even though I've never bothered with wrist rests or so-called "ergonomic" keyboards.
I'm with you 1000% I think people are insane for using boards with extra travel distance or non-tactile keys like reds.
I'm a proud part of tactile gang but the reason people use linear switches is because it's generally faster than tactile switches and some people don't like the feeling of a bump and just want a smooth key stroke.
@@outgoingblur I can understand that but it goes against my grain completely.
@@outgoingblur I don't understand any of this at all, as someone who used scissor switches for years ... and MX reds for years ... and MX blues for years, and have gone on to use all manner of vintage mechanical and dome boards.
I still don't mind some scissor mechanisms, but love clicky switches. They're not any slower than anything else if you're really mashing the keys. I even often daily drive boards with very stiff tactile bumps.
I have used keyboards since the days of the first computers running Windows 3.1, trying out all kinds of models, especially mechanical keyboards (ergonomic, classic, for gamers, etc.). As a developer, gamer, musician, and geek, keyboards have always been an essential part of my daily life. However, for about a decade, more specifically since the introduction of the iMac in 2007, I have gradually become accustomed to the "chiclet" format.
Since I now spend more time coding and writing than playing, I have ended up adopting this format even for gaming. For me, the "chiclet" keyboard has become the default choice, whether I am on a laptop, at the office, at home, working, coding, or playing. Everything is now done on this same type of keyboard.
I simply cannot stand mechanical keyboards anymore. They give me the impression of typing on a prehistoric tool. The noise they produce is particularly unbearable in an open space, where this kind of device contributes to the surrounding cacophony. The problem also arises in the evening when my girlfriend is sleeping, and I am using my computer.
Except you can make them virtually silent if you want, more quiet than membrane that's for sure.
You can easily make quiet
@@yanni-duff I bet they were using something that sounds and feels terrible too, like MX blue or one of the worse clones. Something that sounds like crinkling plastic bags.
@@xb0xisbetter dude thinks he can criticize mechanical keyboards when he hasn't used one since 2007 and the ones he was using beforehand were cheap mx blue boards. No wonder he likes that cutting board of a keyboard.
@@yanni-duffI also grew up in the 80's using mechanical keyboards. They are absolute garbage for anything other than gaming. I also don't understand why the frack anyone wants to listen to clickety clack all day long.
We are reaching levels of based previously thought to be impossible
Understandable, have a nice day
Your opinion, you're free to say it
Even when you're wrong. hahaha
There is no such thing as a "European" layout, all language areas use their own layouts. Here in the Nordics we need separate keys for öäå that they don't need in France.
I don't know why I said European lol
@@BrodieRobertson Well lots of things like power plugs and other things are coded regionally like that so it makes sense. Btw use whatever keyboard you like lol who cares. Mechanicals aren't the be-all-end-all choice although I love mine because I can't stand the short travel of flat keyboards, it's unsatisfying on a lizard brain level. Some people can't fill their flats with the clacking noise of one.
@@new-lviv Кому говоришь? Я никогда с йцукеном не пользовалься, но у меня такой "mnemonic layout", он достаточно труден. qwerty = яверты.
@@Pakanahymni Какой ужас. Сам что ли делал?
@@BrodieRobertson Just FYI: the types are ANSI for "American" (like yours) and ISO for "European". Well, there is also Japanese and some other minor form factors, which nobody cares about.
In my opinion, the Lenovo thinkpad keyboards (the scissor ones after the T420) are some the best keyboards even better that mechanical keyboards by a mile!
I've been hearing good things about them
Agree - the Lenovo laptops of that era are great keyboards (for a laptop). However, I still much prefer a great mechanical keyboard - but I think the issue is that you have to try a few switches to find what works best for you.
@@Digital_Notions mechanical keyboards are just too loud
@@jaydenrussell7491 silent switches exists bruh
@@jaydenrussell7491 red or brown switches exist bruh
Fellow scissor switch lover over here. I also got into it for it's extreme low profile nature as well as for cross compatibility and haven't looked back ever since. So much so that now I kinda find the whole mechanical keyboard experience quite repulsive! 😄
I'll use it if it's put in front of me but my typing speed falls though the floor
i stuck with my ancient, grey industrial laptop just for the excellent keyboard and all-round utilitarian design. Toshiba Tecra M10 and M11.
*This is unforgivable*
Is this supposed to be funny (it's not), or are people making comments like this really that stupid?
@@echt114 you my friend have never been on the internet
@@tntandkat4731 What are you blabbering on about, here on the ... ... internet?
@@echt114 he and John ate the burrito but the internet only has the singular one modular rock 🪨 right rock 🪨 the best of
@@tntandkat4731 Mechanical keyboards must be like smoking lots of weed in that they give the user the illusion he's doing all sorts of creative wonderful things that he isn't. And if you combine the two.... well, I guess you can write songs for Beck.
A laptop user like myself: How can people use mechanicals, they are so big.
😏
I agree😂
You know it's a little late but low profile mechanicals exist. I tend to avoid them because they remind me too much of laptop keyboards but if that's your thing they're there.
@@UndergroundHorrorRap I use a low profile mecha keyboard with low profile kailh switches. They are still super crappy in comparison to my macbook pro's keyboard. Great on paper, doesn't work.
Bro same
I like low-profile mechanical keys, such as Keychron K3, and I do enjoy the typing sound (especially, the sound of blue switch), yet the things I can't stand with the mechanical keys are that you have to press the keys so much deeper to enter and also the keys are incredibly heavy to press. Furthermore, you cannot slide your finger to the next key if the key is adjescent to the previous one. I tried this technic on the mechanical keyboard and found the key flying off from the switch. Moreover, I hate the feeling of void, or emptiness, in between the moments you touch and press the key. I find this "void" when I use keyboards with switches other than the blue switch.
Nice review. I've been obsessed with mechanical keyboards for years, but now I'm really interested. Thanks for the recommendations. Please keep 'em coming.
Big same. I've never understood the obsession with mechanicals. My primary concern with a keyboard is to not be missing keys, not have RGB, not have any cables, and not take up excess space. Scissor switch keyboards are my jam too.
which keyboard do you have now?
finally i found someone! im really skeptical of buying a mechanical keyboard after trying my fri's ones even tho they felt nice i feel like the blocks of keycaps are getting in the way of my typing and it is so hard to get used to so annoying. in the end my mac keys are the best suit for me
Dell just released a new backlit scissor keyboard, KB900. That could be worth looking into as well.
Great video! Cherry also makes a TKL Cherry Stream keyboard for around $30 (USD) that I use because of wrist strain. It's all plastic but I use it with my mechanical keyboards. Downside is that as of this comment it does not have N Key rollover so for gaming it is probably a no go.
Let your license for using computers in the desk when you left. Pls stay at least 5 meters away of any computer until you regret your sins.
I'll just get a black market PC
The Logitech K380 is one of the best feeling scissor switches I've found so far. Kinda goofy looking board, but you get used to it pretty quick. I can type much faster and with fewer mistakes compared to a mech board, and the tactile bump is more satisfying imo. Build quality is actually quite solid and battery life is insane.
Super helpful video and exactly what I was looking for! Thanks a ton!
2:00 what a fascinating observation. I started typing on laptops and my typing style became "mostly two fingers, sometimes subconsciously use whichever finger is closest to the key, always bottom out", and that style manifested over 5 years until I got "actual" keyboards and continued to stay for the 7 years since then.
Out of the 8 keyboards I own, my absolute favorite for typing is - surprise, surprise, a keyboard with scissor switches.
It's a Logitech k740, which I bought to use it when I'm not at home (where a loud mech would be intrusive), but it then quickly became my go-to for everything.
I'm using the same keyboard and have been for several years. I use it for everything, general typing, work, gaming. I've been looking over some mechanical keyboards thinking that I want to try switching to them but I'm just so fixed on this keyboard that I don't know if I'll ever leave it. It's a really good keyboard in my opinion.
Agree 100%, sound is irritating to everyone in the room, long keystroke is annoying. To make them feel more like old type typing machine, only thing missing is that two keys got stuck down together when simultaneously pressed.
Mechanicals can be much quieter than typical scissor switches. Even if they're not, there are so many different ways that they can sound, especially if it is a vintage mechanism.
I type a lot and I have to agree with you on this. Mechanical keyboards are fun to use for the first couple of touches but the travel and relatively high actuation force just slow me down. True that the fastest typists use mechanical keyboards but for average people like me, I doubt that.
I'd like to recommend two keyboard models (both have scissor-mechanisms, though I'm a big fan of TKL keyboards hence the choice):
1. CHERRY Stream Keyboard TKL
2. Gembird KB-P2 (incredible thin, probably the most thin keyboard ever made, but has some bugs, though worth trying if you able to find it in stock).
It is sort of amazing to find out that im not the only one who prefer scissor switches over mechanical ones. There is an analogy i always use. There is a good reason why rubber popit was a massive thing. Because it feels better than plastic spring!
damn im in this ship too, i hate mechanical keyboards, and they are not even low profile compared to those scissor or membrane ones that i love. after 1.5 year of searching i found Cherry Stream keyboard, it had wireless, wired and tkl versions, its eco friendly, battery lasts 36 months its even more quit than this guys keyboard that he showed, its 50-60 euros/dollars for wireless version, so i strongly recommend for anyone who is still searching to look it up, cherry is known for their button quality, they also have latency reduced reciever etc, one thing that mechanical keyboad dont have is that small ovale shape at lower end of keyboard for wrint to rest when you gaming mmorpg games and using f1-4 keys, thisi s major issue form e with those tall keyboards and to find something like cherry stream is amazing, its perfect for me, maybe for someone it will be good choice too, i know how hard it is to pick keyboard so hope it helps someone in future
hi scissors keyboard lovers, i just killed my second Cougar Vantar with a tiny liquid drop, just like i killed the 1st one. I cant find any other brand that has low profile and anti ghosting. i still can't understand why people dont like them, i am questionning about being a normal human being, just like you i guess. Anyone knows another brand ? This message was written with windows virtual keyboard and took half of my lifetime ;-) Thanks !
RGB scissor keyboards. WHAT ABOMINATION IS THIS!?
Everything needs lights on it, it's harder to find stuff that doesn't
Bro
RGB makes you go 50% faster
Honestly.... same
Still trying to get used to my mechanical keyboard because it’s expensive and I can’t really return it
good thing you uploaded this to LBRY cause it's only a matter of time before this video is taken down for violations of online conduct
I didn't know you also covered keyboards. 😅 Have you ever tried keyd or kmonad for layers? I'm using keyd for both setting my layout to Colemak and for adding an extend layer. I'm quite pleased and impressed with the result.
"Perfectly flat key cap"
Delete this now.
Perfectly flat as they should be
But, flat is justice, right ?
@@BrodieRobertson damn right!
people who like anything else are cringy teen gamers, change my mind.
Yes!
I thought I'd go the mechanical route, and I'm just not getting it. I got a Keychron k4v2, and love the 1800 layout that I'm used to on my previous laptops, but no one makes them in low profile scissor switches. I really like to have a keypad, but I can't have it much longer than the K4.
I've found a couple, one on amazon, but they're just not available anywhere...
You here is me 4 years ago. My wrists and fingers hate tall keyboards and wriststands with a passion. I spent 1 year using classic tall Cherry MX Brown keyboard and then gone back to scissors with a LOT of relief.
Wanna good cheap disposable scissors - get A4tech KV300h.
I tried Apple keyboards and MX keys. They are like 5-10% better for 5 times the price. Unluckily, never got my hands on the Surface keebee.
Cougar Vantar was the single worst scisy i had. Clumsy, unreliable, rattling abomination, with several switches breaking after several month of use. May be something changed with their QC since then, can't tell.
My low profile weapon of choice 1 year ago was Keychron K3V2 with gateron low profile browns. Keyboard wise it's perfect, especially if you using 13 inch macbook, you could lay it just on top of notebook above touchpad. Has win-mac toggle to switch between pc and mac easily.
Though, not customizable enough for me due to firmware limitations.
Don't buy it, get Keychron K3Pro, its coming next month, has PBT caps, 1000hz polling usb, open source firmware and ready to use customize software.
Nuphy Air 75 is another often recomended contender, but has terrible magnetic feet and lack some other features, neat looking tho.
My current logistics in-progress custom build is based on Keychron V1. V1 has out of the box somewhat low profile base.
I'll hotswap standard switches with low profile outemu and low profile keycaps. Some chinese abomination, called XVX LP caps, they are sculpted profile, looks like a mix betweeb DSA and Cherry profile.
If in the end it will be still too tall - will 3D print case as this guy did: watch?v=2qzxGP9NStc
Next is, based on this tallness expertise build 6x15 Ortholinear, somewhat similar to that "thing:4797780", but not a fan of this exact layout. Would try to develop ortholinear hybrid of GMMK PRO with sculpted caps, and may be with slight per finger column ergonomic offset.
I'm in the same spot after a year of using mechs. I've realized the same thing: mechanical keyboards aren't really the problem. I don't think my fingers and hands can tell the difference. But they can definitely tell the difference between tall and short keyboards. With tall ones, even with a wrist rest, I'm having to contort and tense up my fingers and hands much more. Maybe if you float your wrists in the air--which I have no interest in learning to do--maybe they are fine. Otherwise high profile keyboards are an ergonomic disaster for touch typists.
Logitech MX Mechanical and Nuphy Air are pretty good low profile options.
@@BookClubDisaster i need to say, that i curently use stock Keychron V1 with Gazzew U4t switches, and i'm very happy with it. Only stain spot is missing End button.
Height-wise stock V1 working for me greatly, fatigue is very minor. It significantly lower than other mechanics i had and tried. Typing experience is perfect.
Stock V1 with browns has very decent sound and tactility profiles.
Both height and sound preferences are very individual. Handstand may be a good option for some people (i personaly hate them, and luckily doesnt need one with V1).
Low profile upgrades failed due to different reasons. LP Caps dosn't allow standard switches to bottom out. LP profile switches had terrible quality in comparison to stock ones (and ofc to u4t) and had some hot-swap compatibility issues, e.g. requiring low profile stabilizers.
I still plan for 3d printed ortho, but now lean to use u4t there.
Hey! I believe my laptop's keyboard has a scissor key-cap keyboard, though I just couldn't ever actually work with it properly when trying to put keycaps in
I did some googling and found that my dream switch, basicly a scissor with a slightly longer Travel distance, being lighter to start pressing, and having a nice tactile bump, turns out to me logitech's tactile low profile switch,named the gl tactile, and therefore my dream keyboard would be a g815/g915 in any size. but I sadly won't be spending that much any time soon.
Cherry Stream $25-40 USD
3:20 With regards to bottoming out, you're kinda supposed to with mechanical switches. Main reasoning to have it longer than actuation is faster registration of keystrokes (2mm vs 4mm bottom out) while not having it so short that you accidentally actuate them.
4:00 also with typing, it's best practice to have your wrists hovering while typing. Ergonomically, I'd recommend having a chair with adjustible armrests and have them level with your table so that you're not forcing your joints into angles. Gaming though, yeah having a wrist rest is preferable.
For dome/scissor keyboards, ThinkPad is best, and they make usb/Bluetooth keyboards just like their laptops with track point.
If you want some low-profile mech switches, Keycron makes a variety of boards with hotswap options with usb/wireless connectivity at a reasonable price. Personally I'm a keycron K8 user.
I have been typing on a mechanical keyboard for years. I just got my M1 Macbook and tried out the keyboard. I really liked it, and when I plugged my old mech keyboard into my Macbook, I still found myself using the built-in laptop keyboard more. So I figured I'd just save the desk space and use the Macbook keyboard exclusively. These scissor switches are great!
It’s sad that this is considered an unpopular opinion.
I just don’t think many gamers have been brought up on membrane keyboards.
I was using a cheap enermax backlight scissor switch one back in 2008-2012.
Still to date the best typing and gaming experience I’ve had.
A close second is kensington slim type. Basically the old style laptop keys but with n key rollover. Sadly it doesn’t have backlight though.
While the market is saturated with mechanical, membrane has fallen into the abyss, replaces with crappy cheap wireless keyboards from no-name brands
I grew up using membrane boards, which includes scissor switches. Some of these I still like. I didn't know mechanical keyboards even existed until the gaming craze started with Cherry switches in things like the venerable Corsair K70 (which I still use for games) came out. You'll never see a clamoring for dome boards unless it is vintage DWS mechanisms or electrocapacitive designs like Topre and NIZ.
All of these are very similar to the cheap dome boards of the last 30 years ... but better.
I still prefer mechanical switches in any case, mostly vintage clicky mechanisms. The irony is that it was mostly people who grew up with mechanicals who kept the spirit alive and helped revitalize it. I count myself lucky that companies like Cherry and Unicomp survived the 90s so that I could even discover mechanical keyboards.
I love scissor keyboards too, because they are pretty quiet and I can easily move fingers between keys.
I have a Logitech K520 wireless keyboard that I bought over a decade ago for 30 bucks with a wireless mouse inlcuded. This Keyboard is the best Keyboard ever. I use it since 11 years, type every day for hours so it has endured 10s of millions of strokes, had dropped it at least a dozen times the last years and it still works like on day one. Sadly I don`t even know what mechanism it uses.
Thank you! Whenever I bringt this up people always tell me "you just haven't tried the right mechanical switch for you yet".
Well okay, at the same time I'm thinking to myself they probably didn't try the right scissor switch keyboard yet lol
Just the opposite. Everyone's tried various scissor switches. They're the dominant type these days. Even my very first desktop computer had a keyboard with them, and I still like that keyboard. I've typed on them literally for years.
I still very much prefer dozens of distinct mechanisms to scissor switches.
One problem is that the mechanical switches popular today are almost all almost exactly the same because they're all just slight variations of Cherry clones.
i mean i personally would choose a regular mechanical keyboard but I respect your opinion and I can kinda understand where you're coming from. good video btw
Same. I can’t understand why people like mechanical keyboards. I think people just follow the echo chamber of “mechanical good. membrane bad”.
before i got my first mechanical keyboard, i had but two requirements:
1. have keys
2. be a keyboard
but then, on one magical day, i went into the store. i wasn't even looking for a keyboard, but then i walked up to it, put my grubby little hands on those keys and began to type. i think i came a little. anyway, i took it home and now the only thing that i hate is that i have only one of it.
imo, if i have to use rubber dome, scissor switch is the only one i can cope with, but really, nothing beats mechanical.
Yeah, I very much feel the same. Currently using a Logitech MX Keys Mini, and it feels alright so far. There may be better options, but for now I feel like it's grand. I type fast on it, and that's what matters.
I'm constantly looking for a good work keyboard. I got used to typing on the laptop, then try to find a nice keyboard that is similar (especially a keyboard/mouse combo) is more difficult than it should be. Now, I will say I do prefer mechanical keyboard for gaming. My favorite so far has been the Logitech G815. It's not too loud, still types ok if you need it to. Some mechanical keyboards I've had in the past have been clunky for typing. This one is good all around imo. But for work, I want a chiclet style laptop keyboard. Thanks for your video! I was actually looking at the Cherry, just was not sure I wanted to spend that much $$ for work at this point in time.
I use a mechanical keyboard as my daily driver but I can't recommend older Lenovo scissor switch keyboards enough. I find them at the thrift shop for 50¢ once in a while. They're fantastic to type on.
I haven't used any of the older Lenovo boards, if I see one I might grab it
Cherry Stream is close to my X220. $25-40 USD
Holy crap, how am I only finding this video now?
I'm of the exact same mindset that you seem to be proclaiming here, and I'm tired of the weird disdain and peer pressure to get on the mechanical switch train.
I agree whole heartedly with you on the surface keyboard. I actually have two, and I've used one for 14-16 hours a day for more than 5 years with only keycap wear, and I've yet to find it's equal with regards to build quality and feel.
I have been recently using an mx keys from Logitech, but I hate the dished keycaps, which are not as horizontally stable and harsher to the fingertips than the surface board.
What are you using now?
I've attempted a failed foray into the logi mx mechanical (tactile) - but I've found the Cherry 9100 slim to be great, and am waiting to receive a Corsair k100 Air.
The biggest issue is lack of choice. I was looking for not only a wireless, good scissor switch keyboard, but also something that could do multiple devices. The one feature the surface board was lacking.
I've yet to try a mechanical keyboard but i definitely prefer the scissor switch keyboard on my old Thinkpad over the rubber dome keyboards.
so butterfly or scissor? which one is sensitive? I want sensitivity like capacitive touch screen.
The reason for me to go with mechanical keyboard is because of the hot swappable switch. I have so many membrane keyboards failed on me.
Cherry Stream Keyboard Wired USB SX Scissors Mechanism QWERTY Whisper-Quiet Silent Keystroke - I have had one for over 5 years and just broke a key cap. $29 on Amazon - can't beat it.
Unfortunately not backlit.
@@blazezoolander7473 Just got an Arteck Backlit & prefer it to my heavy old Tecware Phantom,
Only gripe so far is the FLIMSY cord, But I don't plan on throwing it around :)
MAN do I Love typing on this thing ^_^
I know I'm kinda late, but what about electrostatic switches? I know that keyboards with this mechanism are really expensive, but people say that the feeling of them is absurdly good. If someday you're able to get it please tell your opinions about it
I looked at a few videos, they look pretty cool
I like scissor switches as well! I was wondering if can you lube scissor switches? I can barely find any info on people trying that out, but I'm wondering if it'd help to dab a bit of lube on each switch, and maybe even add some dielectric grease to the stabilizers under the larger keys. Might make the typing experience feel a little smoother? Or you know, just, completely ruin the keyboard...
Unrelated, but I previously wrote up a huge unnecessary rant on how anything that isn't MX (or sometimes Choc & Topre) gets spat at by many enthusiasts but... I don't want to start a war in your comment section :P
I've been on a mac 5 years between 2011 and 2016, and gosh, do I miss the Magic Keyboard !
It was amazing.
The typing feeling on this was so satisfying.
Magic Keyboard I hated at first but I recently rediscovered it. Makes typing absolutely effortless. Some people seem to like to make things harder than they have to be. See: the mechanical keyboard community.
@@BookClubDisaster EXACTLY
The point of the video is right and it's good that somebody came out with this finally.
On the other hand, cougar vantaar is the worst possible scissor switch keyboard. The buttons are too large and I get no response if don't push it hard enough.
Just saw it's actually an update after my bad experience with cherry switches.
Mechanical keyboards are quite subjective thing, you don't have to like them. If scissors is your way, go with them.
I can write faster on mechanical keyboards. BUT! I get pain after a while, because bottoming out. I tried orings, but I still had the issue. Tried many different switches.
How is the Lenovo true strike keyboard compared to scissor switch keyboard. Does it have the same mechanism?
There's a subset of scissor switch keyboards which I find more comfortable than those flat chiclet keyboards, and those are high-profile scissor switch keys: B.FRiEND GK4/GK4st, B.FRiEND KB800, POWZAN KB800, Aigo V600.
The most quiet and smooth keys I ever used - silent but not mushy at all (I couldn't stand the mushy feel of the Razer Cynosa V2).
They all have the same basic design and keys (even the font is identical) so I suspect the same OEM is involved. The only issue with them is their longevity. The keycaps have thin hooks that hold the switch, and it's only a matter of time until they snap (happened to me with the B.FRiEND GK4 after a few years, also look up Amazon reviews for POWZAN KB800, you'll see what I mean).
Have you tried low profile mechanical switches?
I actually type better on a laptop keyboard as well. And I think if you used a linear low profile mechanical switch with orings maybe and some flatter profile keycaps like DSA it would be more similar to a laptop.
Although I still like to use my mechanical keyboard, it just feels nicer. Even if I'm a few wpm slower on it
My wrists also hurt a bit after typing for a while, I think IRS from smacking my wrists down on my laptop for years, but using a wrist rest helps a ton, the most important part is to try keep your wrists straight.
Nevermknd you showed exactly what I was thinking of at the end haha
Although looking into alternate keycap profiles can be helpful too since there's actually a lot more than the default ones and some of them are all the same height and are more flat like DSA etc.
I just want to build a giant, ortholinear, split keyboard, like the BFO-9000, but now I want to put scissors switches on it. Is there any way to get the scissors switches off of a keyboard and side them onto a new one? I feel like the membrane on any membrane keyboard would make that really difficult.
No, but choc switches are close😊
I honestly like scissor switches, but I'm generally a fan of a variety of styles of switch. I have a membrane switch keyboard, a optical switch keyboard, a scissor switch keyboard (came with an HP All-In-One I got ages ago.... not to mention the multiple laptops I own), and a mechanical switch keyboard. My least favorite is the membrane keyboard (Razer Ornata Chroma if I remember right). It is way too spongy and has a lot of resistance. I've fatigued my fingers using it many times.
For anyone that likes scissor switches: you might like choc switches. I haven't used them, but they travel a similar distance to scissor switches. If you got choc browns, you would probably experience the same resistance as well.
Yeah I'm there with you Brodie. I have tried many keyboards but never enjoyed full size mech keyboards switches like a regular Cherry MX. My exception is low profile switches. I was gifted a Keychron K1V4 (brown switches) and for a mech keyboard I really enjoy it. It is a little higher (like a mm or two) than the MX Keys I primarily use but it is a TKL which I love and the height difference isn't an issue for me. I also have a Keychron K2 but it is so high I find it awful to use.
I wish I could get this MX Keys in a TKL as I just don't use the numpad but still want a normal nav/arrow key layout. Maybe one day.
Logitech released the MX Keys Mini recently
I'm with you, thanks for sharing your opinion, Im about to buy one of these cougar
Have you tried other switches like Gateron Black Ink's or Novelkeys Cream or just Cherry MX? Have you tried Linear, Tactile, and Clicky switch types? Genuine question as someone interested in getting a mechanical keyboard.
Just buy a brown and be happy
@@JosueRodriguez08 Browns, in a lot of ways, are the best of no worlds.
@@NotAFanMan88 could you clarify that statement for me please?
@@raymondgradzewicz Sort of weak tactility that tries to be in-between clicky and linear switch. Cherry MX / Gateron browns tend to just feel like a rougher linear switch that doesn't really give the tactile feedback that's satisfying when typing, but have the benefit of not being loud like typical clicky switches.
@@NotAFanMan88 Yeah that's what I heard, that's why I was so confused when Josue Rodriguez said to get MX Browns.
I am the same way! I really relate to this. I just bought a Magic Keyboard from Apple and I have 0 regrets. I am never going back to mechanical keyboards.
Any scissor keyboards with built in palm rest?
I honestly don't know what's worse: a traditional membrane/rubber dome desktop keyboard, or a scissor switch laptop keyboard. A key on a rubber dome board won't budge a bit until you put enough pressure on it--at which point it'll bottom out, which is unpleasant but necessary by design. A full scissor switch keyboard, while the keys themselves are often nice and clicky and very responsive, has to be the most unnatural thing you could possibly hover your hands over. They are incredibly uncomfortable and provide no "feel" for where your hands are actually resting. Completely flat keys on a completely flat board.
I'll take Topre and mechanical, linear or clicky, any day. I liked the feel and sound of my old Unicomp buckling spring keyboard, but it didn't last long before it just completely stopped working.
Thanksss a lot finally some good material about scissor switch
You sound like my brother! 😊 He loves laptop keyboards, while I hate them. But that's probably because I grew up on a desktop computer and don't even own a laptop. I have a Dygma Defy ergonomic mechanical keyboard, and really enjoy it. But thanks for explaining your point of view!
I couldn't agree more. I have a Logitech UltraX since 2004 and I, unfortunately, scorched it today with some hot coffee and even after vigorous cleaning it did not recover. Now I can't find a decent replacement.
Commenting at 1:23
You gotta try the Logitech G-810, It's not too loud and IMO, It feels great. The switches are not clicky rather they are tactile. And touch typing feels like bliss. If there are no other options, you might like the Cherry MX-Brown or Clear switches. You see all the comparisons like travel distance and all that, but the speed at which you type will depend on the way you are hitting them. Like you are playing chords on a piano. As you hit a key your other fingers have already pushed the next keys just a bit before the actuation point. But this is all my opinion. If your setup works, evolve on that or try something new and see how it goes.
(Edit)
Ok you mention these later in the video.
You might wanna check out making a custom keyboard as a side project or get one of those boards that have a programmable micro controller in them to enhance your computing experience. But like I said, whatever floats your boat.
My favorites are scissor switches too, especially because the often excellent key stability. But my favorite is older Thinkpad T420/520/etc style keyboards. I prefer them without the gaps between the keys like that. Also dig old buckling spring style.
I've considered buying buckling springs for the memes
@@BrodieRobertson It's definitely worth a try, if you've never used em before. Who knows, you may become one with the memes
Cherry Stream is very close to my X220. $25-40 USD
Hey, know of any new scissor switch keyboards these days? I'm searching for very quiet keyboard, wired, full-size, fast/low actuations/travel distance, and preferably media keys and at least 1 solid/static single color backlighting setting (like white or green)... I'd use for general/work/gaming... Logitech K740 seems good, but read it has ghosting issues. Logitech MX Keys seems good, but it's wireless. Corsair K55 seems good, but it's just membrane... I have a Corsair K70 mech keyboard cherry reds, have tried silent reds also; I like scissor better than mech.
I'm now using a Cherry KC 6000 Slim
1:25 ahwwwwkayyyhhh. i also like my laptop keyboard a lot. it was the one that made me learn the touch typing.
but didnt know they were called Scissor switches.
i just thought they were a special version of membrane keyboard, but didnt know their name.
Oh wait, yeah, my (asus tuf) laptop has chicklet keyboard if i recall correct. is it same as "scissor" switch??
The current "low profiles", including the tesoro gram XS, don't really feel like low profile at all, the keycaps still sit quite high on those. But there's incoming Mistel Air One (tkl) and Corsair K100 Air (full sized) which will have new cherry ultra low profile switches.
about 15 years ago i found a noname scissor swich keyboard. it was absooutely amazing. they were being discontinued and so went on sale. i bought 11 of them.
unfortunately 2 years ago someone stole them from my basement so now i only have 3 left, 1 one of which is really worn down.
the interesting part about this is that i have become kind of annoyed with that particular feel of scissor. but i found the cherry kw 9100 and its awesome. the keys are a bit too small but im trying to get used to that.
i have also tried multiple mechanical keyboards and its not really my style. altho i am right now typing on a keychron k5 pro with gateron brown low profile switches, the sound is chef's kiss and the feel is quite nice. it's not really quite low profile compared to standard laptop style chiclet keebs, but it's sooo much better than a normal mechanical. i never really liked having to angle my wrists so much when typing. been using scissor switches for 20 years at this point.
*anyway the microsoft surface keyboard is slightly mushier than the cherry kw 9100. the layout is almost identical.*
sooooo takeaway here is: if you can afford it - when you find your favorite keyboard, buy them in bulk. that way you wont have to switch keebs your entire life, and youll have the same keeb at work and at home or in multiple rooms if you want.
Have you tried using the thinkpad external keyboards? Lenovo is still producing it and you also get the trackpoint + mouse buttons!
I've never been a fan of the mechanical keyboards, but since I've bought my first thinkpad, I didn't want to type on anything else. After that I got the external keyboard and it is even better than the ones in the laptops
I haven't but it sounds interesting, I've never tried the track point out
@@BrodieRobertson I don't use it very heavily nowadays, because I started using a window manager a year ago. And when I have to use the mouse, it's probably for something more intensive than jist moving the cursor a bit and clicking one thing, so I just use the external mouse, but when I used it, it was such a lovely thing
here to assert my dominance with my unlubbed tactile switches just to annoy this guy
Maybe try to use the Sculpt Ergonomic Keyboard. It has almost normal layout. I think the logitech has something similar.
Man I was desparated to see all the mech hype. Thank you so much!
I'm with you, I have that same keyboard, why do I need a key to travel so far and make loud annoying noises when they are pressed.
i have the opposite problem lol . my desk is pretty high so i have to bend my wrists up . i use a scissor switch keyboard at work since that desk is the appropriate height . my membrane keyboard at home finally died after 8 years . just ordered a vantar mx with red switches on a early black Friday deal for 50% off . hopefully i like it . if my desk at home was the right height id probably have bought the scissor switch vantar too
Had a hard time looking for full size scissor switch keyboard for windows, thank you for this recommendation bruh
There's sadly not a ton out there
It's 2024 and there is zero options of scissor switches keyboard to choose 😭
I really can't stand physical keyboards. I've used plenty of physical keyboards but I've never found one that I really like, they always feel like a downgrade from the on-screen keyboard. Is it because my main driver is a Microsoft Surface, probably, but you know I like what I like.
I'd be surprised if there was a single person in the world who thought that
ewww
you joke, but dude, i have seen some crazy fast people typing with that android letter swipe system. I bet there are plenty of people that are faster with their phones than a physical keyboard.
@@michaelwilkes0 For me accuracy is a tad more important than speed. Swiping is really good, but I've found 3 downsides, 1. accuracy: AI suggestion quality is determined by who implemented it which means I'm bound to one or two software keyboards (MS and Google tend to be the best), 2. Privacy, they're basically keyloggers, 3. When the oleophobic coating wears out, swiping is the equivalent to intentionally giving your thumb a rug burn.
@@sentinel9651 yeah, all good points. Also, when i use it (which is rare), it feels like i am locked into a subset of vocabulary. Im not saying its better, just that some people are crazy fast with it.
If you like 'flat' then that's a valid choice. However, you're also probably behind the times too.
After typewriters (electric), then IBM, Commodore, and Amiga keyboards, I never fully adjusted to flat keys. The main issue for me was always the noise - and so I went with Logitech's offerings, with membranes and silicone 'spring' - and they felt ok.... not the flatter ones, though - mush isn't nice.
But now, you should try as you walk past stores - type on some of those 75% and TKL keyboards, the ones with nice chunky PBT key caps. They're getting very QUIET now - and are much nicer to type on.
Something like the Xinmeng M87 pro, or the Ajazz 'summer loop' AK992 - turn the silly lights off if you like, but these wireless keyboards are better than many membrane alternatives and if you're a heavy puncher, you can always throw an extra o-ring.
This just got recommended to me. as someone who plays PC games I prefer the feel of the mechanical keyboard for gaming, but for typing I am faster and more efficient on a laptop keyboard. I think I would be ok with a scissor-switch keyboard for gaming as well, but the problem is that not all keyboards of that type have NKRO.
Have you tried topre though?
Im exactly in the same spot as you are, I'm currently using a cougar vantar - but I can't upgrade because I literally cannot find any keyboard that is better than this one.
I've switched over to a cherry stream now
@@BrodieRobertson Is it good? I just ordered the TKL version
It is a very good one, but the backlighting is cr4p
10:50 so, one more rec: there are Dell's keyboard with similar low profile available as well. They are not suuuper low height like the laptop's, but still much much lower than the traditional membrane ones. i dont know how much they cost, but i can say that they must be super cheap in your currencies.
I'm looking into the Cherry Stream with SX scissor switches. It costs sub-$30 wired and sub-$50 wireless and long-term availability should be solid given that it's officially designed & distributed by Cherry themselves.
Am currently using the very affordable Tecware Phantom L TKL with swappable low-profile Outemu Brown keys. Probably still not as thin and "low-to-the-desk" as the keyboards showcased in this video but it's definitely 30-40% less travel than many full-travel mechanical & cheap rubber dome keyboards.
I like my Thinkpad x250 keyboard. But I much prefer my lubed Gateron yellow switches with XDA keycaps (keyboard is a xd75 ortholinear mechanical 60%). But it took me a while to figure out the right components that were satisfying to me and it was also expensive. So I can understand if someone doesn't want to go down this rabbit hole. Once you start, you become obsessed with finding the perfect typing experience.
I've been on the MechanicalKeyboard sub reddit I can imagine how crazy it gets