The price is unforgivable, the odd design choices are probably due to the fact both were designed for a train pack. Looking at how tiny Lion is maybe that's why they wanted a light truck to make it easier to pull. But that would be okay if it wasn't for the astronomical price.
I agree it is! And that could be true yes - maybe the Hornby Loriot wasn't designed for NEMs to begin with? That's really made me think! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
actually, for some people (including me) who use very close coupling 3-link couplings sprung buffers are necessary, and trying to fit a pair of after market sprung buffers is both expensive, difficult and can look a bit naf. Doesn’t matter for most people, but certainly does for myself. Edit: Also as far as I can tell (which I‘m still not 100% sure) but Rapdio‘s weird rivets are correct! Hornby‘s wooden deck planking is also correct (though Rapido isn’t wrong, as the GWR livery did have the wood painted grey), though I will say the real one is more of an oak sort of colour while hornby seems to have gone for more of a chestnut for some reason.
I don’t know which I prefer. Hornby’s has a nice wooden texture but the Rapido felt more detailed. Guess it just depends on which you’d use for a Titfield Thunderbolt pack (I hope you review that when it comes out, alongside the E1 and S56).
I guess the high cost is due to design, tooling and setup costs being more difficult to recoup than models that can be sold in multiple liveries but you would have to really want one to pay anywhere over £25
Like the Lions only of real interest for those interested in the Titchfield Thunderbolt. Personally I prefer the Rapido version. It’s easy to add some weight with lead or a load but sorting wheels with bearings is a bit more involved. I like the comparison though. Any chance of a similar group test of the Toads from Oxford, Hornby and Rapido? You can include the Bachmann one to show how things have progressed in thirty years 😁
Yeah exactly - too obscure to be otherwise popular, especially at these prices! Glad you liked the comparison - I think the Rapido one is the best option too! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Re-“inverted rivets” - have you heard of “countersunk screws” Sam? Because it’s perfectly possible to do the same thing with rivets (I.e. mill out a recess in a piece of steel for the rivet to sit into. As to why - as with screws, sometimes it’s beneficial to have the rivets flush with the metal either to avoid creating tripping hazards or simply for aesthetic reasons (I believe a number of locomotive tenders were built this way with filler applied to fill in any gaps making the rivets invisible).
I've made a plastic kit of a Lowmac. The slightest bit of warp in the chassis and the model will derail on the first bend. On such a thin chassis, there is no room for error and a plastic one is more likely to warp over time. Therefore, only the Hornby one is viable IMO for all its other faults !
I pre-ordered the Rapido version from Derail's about 3 months ago and it arrived today. I now wish I'd watched your review first!! 😀 Infact, I'm wondering why I bought it in the first place!!🤣
This was a comparison I really wanted to see (I tend to collect Departmental stock). This was an excellent review, thank you for putting it together. I have to say Rapido had set the bar really high for themselves with the VIX Ferry Van, best rolling stock I have seen in a while.
I wonder if the high cost is a reflection of new tooling and assumption by Rapido and Hornby that this being a rather rare wagon it will not sell in large numbers so they have to price each one accordingly.
Rapido really does a lot of work on the underside detail. Ive heard this saying that Rapido models work the best when theyre derailed and turned over--because they have insane underside detail!
There’s an even better option for those looking for a Loriot.. the Cambrian kit! It’s all plastic and you’ll have to put it together, weight it and paint it, but it’ll only cost you about £15. 👍
This lowmac embodies everything wrong with Hornby; badly executed marketing choices, bad design, bad production and overpriced. Its not going well for Hornby.
Comment will probably get lost in the sauce. But there was a discussion about this from Jason Schron at Rapido CA about a similar Canadian Flatcar that was not reaching sales targets presumably over it being %20 more expensive than similar freight cars. Due to the nature of Diecast molds and material being a lot more expensive, flatcars often end up more expensive to make than similar Boxcars/ Freight Vans, Tanks, Hoppers, etc since you can't just hide a generic hunk of Zinc/Aluminum under the floor.
If I would have to choose one it's gonna be Rapido because of the better detail, especially the brake rigging, lower price and it actually has working couplings. So yeah, really disappointed in Hornby's because originally I wanted the metal construction but the couplings are so horrendous it's a big no especially for the higher asking price. However, on the grand scheme of things I think I'll stick with my old Airfix lowmac because for the price you can get better Dapol and Oxford rail models. I recently bought my first Oxford open wagon and I'm blown away by the value.
I’d prefer Rapido’s detail, it simply blows Hornby’s out the water. As long as it doesnt stringline in a long train, I’d be quite content. Worse case, just add a load!
If you follow the rules the GWR set out for these wagons, they were supposed to be marshalled at the rear of the train only. Thats what the printing on the inside of the wells says on the models too. Obey the rules and there is no risk of stringlining unless you buy that Hornby tank and its weight and stiff running pulls the head of the train off! 😉
Regarding the end platforms, I've had opportunity to climb over the one at the SVR in the past and I don't remember it having obvious rivets, it is instead a rather flush piece of thin sheet metal. The longitudinal chassis rails are also prominent in the well, Hornby have completely missed this out by planking the whole thing. In that regard, Hornbys is a work of fiction with its pronounced rivets, silly solution to a problem that doesn't exist and lack of well detail. To fix those rivets would be a nightmare file job AND you'd have to fill the mounting holes too. Rapidos sunken rivets aren't much better, but I'd take that over raised rivets as its much easier to fill and repaint/weather in. That and the decent representation of the exposed chassis rails in the well push their wagon leagues ahead of Hornbys 'effort'. In regards the weight, you could always 3D print a load to bump it up somewhat. A sheeted lathe would look great on it, especially tied down to those functional tying down rings.
Yeah I agree - I’ve looked at some detailed photos myself and there are definitely no visible rivets.. I assume the original design/build must have been different in this regard, but maybe not? Thanks for sharing re the planking too - that is very odd then! Cheers, Sam :)
Re weight - given the cars are used to carry a load, a lighter car might be an advantage in that the load will compensate for the lightness of the wagon without creating excessive drag.
For me it would be the Rapido purely for the axel bearings and the sprung couplings, you can always fix a load on it to bring the weight up. A great video Sam and thank you for your trouble. Regards from Ron.
I would choose the Hornby one , I like the wood texture and that it's all metal. I prefer metal models because they are supposedly less fragile and less prone to derailments. Obviously I wouldn't buy it for the price. I don't necessarily mind about details that you can't see anyway when the wagon it's on the rails , so I don't mind that you can't see the planking from underneath or the brakes. But I'm surprised that the metal wagon didn't roll on the hill , I would say even it has no bearings , considering that it's more than double the weight of the plastic wagon that it should've rolled more. Also , in most cases I prefer free pivoting couplings , because in my opinion for light rolling stock and bad layed tracks , curves , points etc sprung couplings can cause unwanted derailments ; for me it matters more how a model it's behaving on the layout than how easy it's to couple it when it's standing.
That's fair enough - the all metal construction is very tempting, and it should make the wagon run more stable. If it ran properly, that would be the choice for me! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I noticed in a couple of your close ups sam, Hornby’s die cast body had a few paint chips in it too. When Hornby’s version also turned up at the local model shop, a couple of them had missing buffers at one end!
The high prices are to recover the die,and machine costs! If they were able to sell the unit,as a package,the costs would have been amortized over the run! Production decisions,most people never see! One offs,are also harder to sell,as Sam had noted,given their obscurity! Thank you,for an interesting video,and a GWR gem! Thank you 😇!
Curious to see how much weight the "Dan's House" ex-grounded coach with interior details will add to the Rapido Loriot. Great review, as always. I for one pity any company trying to keep up with the runaway increases in Chinese wages, factory costs, and shipping.
As soon as I saw Rapido, I knew the price would be high, but I really didn't expect Hornby to be quite so ridiculous in pricing. These two are close though. Each has it's pros and cons, but given the prototype it was based on and the fact there was only ever two of them, I would probably go Rapido and save the money. The detail looks good on Rapido and although Hornby do have a couple of pro's, the price is what ultimately got me. Ultimately though, I won't be getting either myself as they don't fit my railway layout. I just thought I'd give my opinion :)
Not sure if its to do with how it comes across on camera, but the Hornby planking effect looks great to me! I think the couplings would put me off though.
I'm with you Sam very pricey for what you get for either model. Essentially it would be down to reliability so the inclination would be the Rapido version personally, although if I were to spend that sort of money on a wagon I'd like it to be absolutely perfect in every way.
Looks to me like the Dean churchward brakes are applied on the hornby model, might be best to have the rapid model and have a dicast load for weight. Think these Y's were absorbed hence only two
Interesting how the rings are located differently on each model. Although it is possible that BR moved them (you'd need to compare them like for like for that). I've had issues with the ex-airfix Lowmacs derailing, even with extra weight, so I'd be concerned by the low weight of the Rapido one. The decks would most likely be a lighter colour wood, especially after they had spent some time in the sun, so why the Hornby one ended up being more mahogany coloured, I dunno. It is possible GWR painted the decks though. Also interesting how the Rapido one represents the frames as part of the deck, whereas the Hornby one has the deck simply planked.
Thanks Sam, you have saved me a few bob. I don't think I want either! I love my Rapido rake which is now up to three - a Mink, an open and the excellent Toad which has just arrived. Given the detail on the Toad I can't see how the price works? Think I'll treat myself to another Rapido open or Mink or maybe a Bachmann Macaw and be happy I've saved those few quid. Cheers.
Well you can just add weight to it by adding a slab of flexible sheet lead, or something similar. Weight problem solved. Always follow recommendations for proper weight per length of your car. I prefer metal wheelsets myself. But the tie down rings is a bit of a problem. I really like obscure railroad wagons (in your lingo, rolling stock or car from my neck of the woods) Which one? Not sure. But I think I would go for detail. Plus I think that it would be able to add details earlier.
Bought two of the Rapido versions, detail good, but I found mine derailing in several places on my track, there is no "play" in the wheel axles and as a result the flanges start to grind and lift even on radius 3 not helped because its such a light wagon. I will have to reduce the back to backs to stand any chance of running the wagon. Does not bode well for the lowmac wagon just announced 🤔
Buffer to buffer competition, like that, glad they each focused in different areas as it will give customers more options, sad that there are slacks on both ESPECIALLY given their price but i guess thats how the fracki- i mean ahrem retail now works.
Did you know with the rapido GWR Loriot Y wagon is number 41990 and the real 41990 Wagon is preserved at the Severn Valley Railway also remember that SECR 5 Wagon you reviewed, it’s number is 12522 and the Real 12522 wagon is also preserved at the Severn Valley Railway
In the 1950s,I am sure I had one of those in a Hornby Dublo(three rail) set,I stood on it,but managed to to straighten it and show no ill effects ,I wonder what price it would fetch now...
Decent review here Sam, to be honest both look quite good from the looks of them both, if I was to get one I’m not really sure which I would go for, funny how we mention rakes because today I just received a 15 old hornby HAA hopper wagons which are going to go with my other 10 so I actually have a rake of 25 of those now.
Given the results of the rolling and coupling tests, if I was looking at buying one, I would go for the Rapido wagon, regardless of the weight difference between the two.
An interesting review comparing the 2 products. The Rapido version looks slightly better IMHO (although I haven’t seen either of these in the flesh). The lack of weight doesn’t appear to be an issue on the Rapido wagon either & once a die cast load (of a Catapillar or JCB) has been added I would imagine this would improve the performance too.
I think theres a lot to love on your rating scale, but I think quite a lot of things end up being E grade, I think it may need rebalancing or more grades in the lower tier?
I mean they took the points well, so at least they beat literally everything Dapol for running. And the couplers are the right height so they beat dapol there too! Id get the rapido one personally, put a weighted load on it and that really fixes my only gripe.
Hope you are feeling better. Thankfully I don't need to purchase a Loriot Y for my railways as I wouldn't be spending my own money on one after watching that. I have my own Triang based Dan's house/coach wagon anyways so don't even need one for that purpose. Funny you should say that about rush jobs, I'm still waiting on the 88DS!!
Interesting review; thanks. You could increase the weight of the Rapido wagon by adding a load, and if you wanted better value, there’s the Cambrian kit. OK, it’s more work and it’s a Loriot W, but it’s also £14.70!
Very useful comparison, Sam; more like this please! Looks like the Hornby version keeps jumping on the rear axle. You’ll notice it especially during the sequences after the scores. Is there a problem with the back to backs?
The wood decking on both models would be incorrect after they had transported there first load. To secure loads wedges and blocks would have been nailed or screwed to the timbers, loading marks where point loads would split the surface, over time rotten or badly damaged timbers would be replaced.
As a truck driver, the trailer version of this wagons are called "low boys" and they're extremely susceptible to getting stuck on railroad crossings. There's some pretty crazy footage of a train striking a stuck trailer sitting on the tracks. I don't think anybody was injured thankfully, but still, what a mess.
My late uncle's house had it's driveway right next to a railroad crossing. A lowboy trailer load of steel matt (used to place drilling rigs on it) high centered on the crossing; when the train struck it, it created quite a mess, scattering steel matts all over his yard.
Re the Hornby model, not sure about the coupling issue! (I would just deal with it) but the free (or lack of) rolling is something that all wagons/coaches should be able to do. Not sure that I like the woodgrain effect on the Hornby model. In real life this would have become dirty very quickly, covered in oil etc depending on the load!
great review im sure but i stopped the video at 2:56 after you said the price as i know ill never buy either at what in my opinion is a 20 quid top wagon, all the best Sam'sTrains👍
Oddly in Australia the Hornby Version is cheaper than Rapido. ATM. But at $79. Aud for Hornby & $85 for Rapido. ( 2024) 🤔🙄 Obviously, Hornby prob'ly have a Larger BRAND name aka. Clout..! And Maybe, Distribution..!? But think I will buy a Wellwagon from another supplier, if I am in that much Need..! Or just Buy a Bottle of Booze, Something Nice and Toast both 'Hornby & Rapido' for their Stupidity and or Greed.🎉😂🥳 And then just Not Buy Either..! 🤔 So much to Choose from so little Money 'Hic..!' Pour me Another..! Great Review Sam as Always..! Cheers All..! 😎
Great video as usual! The prices in this hobby have gotten absolutely ridiculous, to the point where I mainly just buy pre-owned models or budget models. These models are not worth between €30-€50, and honestly those prices are just insulates toward the customer. Both are flawed, which would be fine if say these models were say between €17-€22, but at these prices the issues are unforgivable. If I was to pick which model I prefer, I would go with Rapido just because the damn thing works properly, and on top of that it is cheaper, but really, I’m not going to buy ether of these. I’m not disappointed in Hornby, as I have been for ages, but I am disappointed in Rapido, as they generally are much better than this.
Hornby would never normally have gone for such an obscure type. The Loriot Y in Hornbys case was a rather cynical landgrab of movie rights without permission. Perhaps thats why the price is so high, nobody outside of certain legal circles knows what Hornby had to pay Studiocanal for their blatant copyright theft.
Remember what was designed to pull it a small Lion locomotive. Hornby were freed from this constraint when they messed up. So rapido designed theirs for the titfield set Sometimes the reasons are not immidiately obvious
Nah - Rapido's Lion is going to be more powerful than Hornby's (so they say), and with bearings even a 50g wagon would be incredibly easy to Haul... Lion only has to haul one of these and a few other bits... it wouldn't have struggled! Even Hornby's Lion could easily haul 3+ of these Hornby Loriots! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Having a wagon made of plastic like Dapol's is pretty standard. For the price you'd expect not, but still, it doesn't seem to affect the performance and they got more detail into it. Normally die-cast is a feature I'd go for but considering the ugly peg-rivets and the horrible couplings I'd say Dapol's is best. Even disregarding that, I would have still got Dapol's anyway just because I don't want to support Hornby's conniving business model. I wasn't going to pick one up until I watched this review. But it suddenly dawned on me that I bought a couple of traction engines that would look really good on one. However I'll wait and see if they go on sale since even 33 pounds at Hattons is too much. You can get an Oxford Warwell for that.
Are Rapido's gravity defying tie-down points designed to be accurate with a load on the wagon and chains/ropes to secure it whilst Hornby's is modelled empty?
Fair comparison Sam. A tad too much over-repeating whining about price we thought tbh. This hobby with detailed models has always been expensive, and these trucks seem to be a rarity; aimed at avid proficient modellers. That said, H have gone on a path of imitating Märklin in too many ways but their quality isn't even half of it and with so many defects and errors by design and in manufacturing all the time. Well, it explains them being back in deep troubles of course. On this one, they've just ruined a (potential quality) model by skimping on non-sprung couplings... How silly... Rapido really can't convince us either with detailed but rather cheapo constructions and fairly high error rates usually as well. Interesting comparison though. Both have clearly taken different routes as for this model. Metal would certainly always be our preference and the price would be fine for us, but then that most silly coupling construction 🙄 Cheerio.
haha thank you! I always say that expensive models are fine if they're worth the money - but these weren't, and their inadequacy for the money was multi-layered, so a degree of repetition was necessary... but I agree, I probably do overemphasise issues of cost, but mainly because I feel very strongly about it. Yes, with models like this, it makes sense that Hornby are in deep troubles... they're not contributing much to the hobby/industry with models like this, Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I HAVE to assume they're so expensive as most people wouldn't buy more than two, so they bump up the price. That's just my theory though, and it's still utterly bizzare that they're so expensive 😵 I also have to know--what's going on with those wagons at the right in the rankings?? is that box van powered? It doesn't have a locomotive pulling it Cool video!! :3
Hello Sam. Once again I have watched your video with its great informative review and I feel as you do, they're each good in their own ways but, I find it still difficult to choose a winner? I'm now eagerly awaiting the next video.
I assume they've both put the price point very high because they think no one would buy them anyway. And no one will buy them anyway because of the very high price point. This is kinda of a logic in the end, but... ^^'
Both models are too expensive for me. I prefer the Hornby on weight and 'looks', but still not enough to 'shell out' for either. What trucks were used in ww 1 and ww2 for tank transport?
Personally, I typically value die cast construction fairly highly, but those couplings are simply unforgivable! I wonder if it would be possible to get the Hornby wagon, but then order all the separately fitted parts from the Rapido wagon as spares, and rebuild the Hornby wagon into something worth owning.
11:18 one of the manufacturers has clearly got this wrong.. they are of the same prototype as evidenced by the serial number.. yet the tie down hooks are in a different place on both models.. and surely, if they are the same prototype they would both be the same colour? Unless one is preservation and the other is pre-preservation ?
They are, but one is GWR and the other is BR, so they're separated by a number of years... it could be that they were modified during their lifetimes Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Greetings from Oz mukka, In football terms... it sounds like it was a three all draw, with all the goals scored being own goals!!! 😂😂😂 Both companies tripped over their own feet in their haste to get their stock to market. Serves them both right if no one buys them. I'll wait for them to go on special! Hope this costs Hornby dearly. Unless fools. Cheers. Gaz
There is a great western locomotive model in HO that I really think you should at least try. The great western cathedral 8098,think of it as a sort of copy of the lms famous 4-6-2s with only a few minor changes
I'm surprised the Hornby version didn't come with an old coach body load !🤣 Maybe thats why they didn't feel the need to go to town on the brake detail.
Hey guys. Has anyone bought an Accurascale FNA-D ‘New Generation’ Nuclear Flask Carrier yet? I order mine last week as a bit of an impulse buy, but still waiting for my delivery.
The price is madness, and surely one could of looked at the other and done the other running number, which is annoying, I would expect for a wagon north of £25 to be die cast so for me the Hornby one is the one that appeals, plus the nice wood decking, extra rivets and NEM meaning easy Kadee conversion, but I’m going to wait for the price to drop suitably before I even consider either
Well there was only 2 in real life, so the choice of running numbers is very limited this time. I agree, the Hatton's warwells are £25 and those are diecast, have twice the number of wheels, and double the weight of these... madness! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
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The price is unforgivable, the odd design choices are probably due to the fact both were designed for a train pack. Looking at how tiny Lion is maybe that's why they wanted a light truck to make it easier to pull. But that would be okay if it wasn't for the astronomical price.
I agree it is! And that could be true yes - maybe the Hornby Loriot wasn't designed for NEMs to begin with? That's really made me think!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
The first thing I thought when Sam said about the couplings was “are they NEM?”.
That’s a a very good point.
actually, for some people (including me) who use very close coupling 3-link couplings sprung buffers are necessary, and trying to fit a pair of after market sprung buffers is both expensive, difficult and can look a bit naf. Doesn’t matter for most people, but certainly does for myself.
Edit: Also as far as I can tell (which I‘m still not 100% sure) but Rapdio‘s weird rivets are correct! Hornby‘s wooden deck planking is also correct (though Rapido isn’t wrong, as the GWR livery did have the wood painted grey), though I will say the real one is more of an oak sort of colour while hornby seems to have gone for more of a chestnut for some reason.
I don’t know which I prefer. Hornby’s has a nice wooden texture but the Rapido felt more detailed. Guess it just depends on which you’d use for a Titfield Thunderbolt pack (I hope you review that when it comes out, alongside the E1 and S56).
Yeah that's very valid - and I sure will review the Titfield pack :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I guess the high cost is due to design, tooling and setup costs being more difficult to recoup than models that can be sold in multiple liveries but you would have to really want one to pay anywhere over £25
Like the Lions only of real interest for those interested in the Titchfield Thunderbolt.
Personally I prefer the Rapido version. It’s easy to add some weight with lead or a load but sorting wheels with bearings is a bit more involved.
I like the comparison though. Any chance of a similar group test of the Toads from Oxford, Hornby and Rapido? You can include the Bachmann one to show how things have progressed in thirty years 😁
Yeah exactly - too obscure to be otherwise popular, especially at these prices! Glad you liked the comparison - I think the Rapido one is the best option too!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Re-“inverted rivets” - have you heard of “countersunk screws” Sam?
Because it’s perfectly possible to do the same thing with rivets (I.e. mill out a recess in a piece of steel for the rivet to sit into. As to why - as with screws, sometimes it’s beneficial to have the rivets flush with the metal either to avoid creating tripping hazards or simply for aesthetic reasons (I believe a number of locomotive tenders were built this way with filler applied to fill in any gaps making the rivets invisible).
I've made a plastic kit of a Lowmac. The slightest bit of warp in the chassis and the model will derail on the first bend. On such a thin chassis, there is no room for error and a plastic one is more likely to warp over time. Therefore, only the Hornby one is viable IMO for all its other faults !
I pre-ordered the Rapido version from Derail's about 3 months ago and it arrived today. I now wish I'd watched your review first!! 😀
Infact, I'm wondering why I bought it in the first place!!🤣
This was a comparison I really wanted to see (I tend to collect Departmental stock). This was an excellent review, thank you for putting it together. I have to say Rapido had set the bar really high for themselves with the VIX Ferry Van, best rolling stock I have seen in a while.
I wonder if the high cost is a reflection of new tooling and assumption by Rapido and Hornby that this being a rather rare wagon it will not sell in large numbers so they have to price each one accordingly.
Rapido really does a lot of work on the underside detail.
Ive heard this saying that Rapido models work the best when theyre derailed and turned over--because they have insane underside detail!
There’s an even better option for those looking for a Loriot.. the Cambrian kit!
It’s all plastic and you’ll have to put it together, weight it and paint it, but it’ll only cost you about £15. 👍
I seem to recall very similar looking HO lowmacs (heresy I know) and Wrenn did a similar looking one
This lowmac embodies everything wrong with Hornby; badly executed marketing choices, bad design, bad production and overpriced. Its not going well for Hornby.
Comment will probably get lost in the sauce. But there was a discussion about this from Jason Schron at Rapido CA about a similar Canadian Flatcar that was not reaching sales targets presumably over it being %20 more expensive than similar freight cars. Due to the nature of Diecast molds and material being a lot more expensive, flatcars often end up more expensive to make than similar Boxcars/ Freight Vans, Tanks, Hoppers, etc since you can't just hide a generic hunk of Zinc/Aluminum under the floor.
If I would have to choose one it's gonna be Rapido because of the better detail, especially the brake rigging, lower price and it actually has working couplings. So yeah, really disappointed in Hornby's because originally I wanted the metal construction but the couplings are so horrendous it's a big no especially for the higher asking price. However, on the grand scheme of things I think I'll stick with my old Airfix lowmac because for the price you can get better Dapol and Oxford rail models. I recently bought my first Oxford open wagon and I'm blown away by the value.
I’d prefer Rapido’s detail, it simply blows Hornby’s out the water. As long as it doesnt stringline in a long train, I’d be quite content.
Worse case, just add a load!
If you follow the rules the GWR set out for these wagons, they were supposed to be marshalled at the rear of the train only. Thats what the printing on the inside of the wells says on the models too. Obey the rules and there is no risk of stringlining unless you buy that Hornby tank and its weight and stiff running pulls the head of the train off! 😉
Hi Sam.
It's a case of:
'Eeny meeny miney mo,
How much money shall I let go'.
Paul. 👍❤
haha thanks Paul, you're right!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Regarding the end platforms, I've had opportunity to climb over the one at the SVR in the past and I don't remember it having obvious rivets, it is instead a rather flush piece of thin sheet metal. The longitudinal chassis rails are also prominent in the well, Hornby have completely missed this out by planking the whole thing. In that regard, Hornbys is a work of fiction with its pronounced rivets, silly solution to a problem that doesn't exist and lack of well detail. To fix those rivets would be a nightmare file job AND you'd have to fill the mounting holes too. Rapidos sunken rivets aren't much better, but I'd take that over raised rivets as its much easier to fill and repaint/weather in. That and the decent representation of the exposed chassis rails in the well push their wagon leagues ahead of Hornbys 'effort'. In regards the weight, you could always 3D print a load to bump it up somewhat. A sheeted lathe would look great on it, especially tied down to those functional tying down rings.
Yeah I agree - I’ve looked at some detailed photos myself and there are definitely no visible rivets.. I assume the original design/build must have been different in this regard, but maybe not? Thanks for sharing re the planking too - that is very odd then!
Cheers, Sam :)
Great vid, hope you're feeling better now! 😊 Currently designing an LNER wagon on Sketchup...
Thank you mate, yes I'm feeling much better now! That sounds amazing - good luck! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Re weight - given the cars are used to carry a load, a lighter car might be an advantage in that the load will compensate for the lightness of the wagon without creating excessive drag.
For me it would be the Rapido purely for the axel bearings and the sprung couplings, you can always fix a load on it to bring the weight up. A great video Sam and thank you for your trouble. Regards from Ron.
I would choose the Hornby one , I like the wood texture and that it's all metal. I prefer metal models because they are supposedly less fragile and less prone to derailments. Obviously I wouldn't buy it for the price. I don't necessarily mind about details that you can't see anyway when the wagon it's on the rails , so I don't mind that you can't see the planking from underneath or the brakes. But I'm surprised that the metal wagon didn't roll on the hill , I would say even it has no bearings , considering that it's more than double the weight of the plastic wagon that it should've rolled more. Also , in most cases I prefer free pivoting couplings , because in my opinion for light rolling stock and bad layed tracks , curves , points etc sprung couplings can cause unwanted derailments ; for me it matters more how a model it's behaving on the layout than how easy it's to couple it when it's standing.
That's fair enough - the all metal construction is very tempting, and it should make the wagon run more stable. If it ran properly, that would be the choice for me!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I noticed in a couple of your close ups sam, Hornby’s die cast body had a few paint chips in it too. When Hornby’s version also turned up at the local model shop, a couple of them had missing buffers at one end!
I'm sorry to hear that your unwell Sam, I hope you get better soon
Cheers Jasper & Willow
It's okay!! I'm feeling much better now thank you!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Thank you for my incredible wagons that arrived today
13:34 I'm really surprise about that Sam, because Rapido make some good quality model.
Cheers Jasper & Willow
They do - though this could've been much better for the money I think!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
The high prices are to recover the die,and machine costs! If they were able to sell the unit,as a package,the costs would have been amortized over the run! Production decisions,most people never see! One offs,are also harder to sell,as Sam had noted,given their obscurity! Thank you,for an interesting video,and a GWR gem! Thank you 😇!
Curious to see how much weight the "Dan's House" ex-grounded coach with interior details will add to the Rapido Loriot. Great review, as always. I for one pity any company trying to keep up with the runaway increases in Chinese wages, factory costs, and shipping.
As soon as I saw Rapido, I knew the price would be high, but I really didn't expect Hornby to be quite so ridiculous in pricing. These two are close though. Each has it's pros and cons, but given the prototype it was based on and the fact there was only ever two of them, I would probably go Rapido and save the money. The detail looks good on Rapido and although Hornby do have a couple of pro's, the price is what ultimately got me. Ultimately though, I won't be getting either myself as they don't fit my railway layout. I just thought I'd give my opinion :)
Not sure if its to do with how it comes across on camera, but the Hornby planking effect looks great to me!
I think the couplings would put me off though.
I'm with you Sam very pricey for what you get for either model. Essentially it would be down to reliability so the inclination would be the Rapido version personally, although if I were to spend that sort of money on a wagon I'd like it to be absolutely perfect in every way.
Looks to me like the Dean churchward brakes are applied on the hornby model, might be best to have the rapid model and have a dicast load for weight.
Think these Y's were absorbed hence only two
For not much more you can buy the Accurascale Syphon G! Puts things in perspective.
Interesting how the rings are located differently on each model. Although it is possible that BR moved them (you'd need to compare them like for like for that).
I've had issues with the ex-airfix Lowmacs derailing, even with extra weight, so I'd be concerned by the low weight of the Rapido one.
The decks would most likely be a lighter colour wood, especially after they had spent some time in the sun, so why the Hornby one ended up being more mahogany coloured, I dunno. It is possible GWR painted the decks though. Also interesting how the Rapido one represents the frames as part of the deck, whereas the Hornby one has the deck simply planked.
Love the note in the rapido box, surprised hornby aren’t putting copies of Simon Kohlers resignation letter in their stuff 😂😂😂
hahaha!!
Thanks Sam, you have saved me a few bob. I don't think I want either! I love my Rapido rake which is now up to three - a Mink, an open and the excellent Toad which has just arrived. Given the detail on the Toad I can't see how the price works? Think I'll treat myself to another Rapido open or Mink or maybe a Bachmann Macaw and be happy I've saved those few quid. Cheers.
Well you can just add weight to it by adding a slab of flexible sheet lead, or something similar. Weight problem solved. Always follow recommendations for proper weight per length of your car. I prefer metal wheelsets myself. But the tie down rings is a bit of a problem. I really like obscure railroad wagons (in your lingo, rolling stock or car from my neck of the woods)
Which one? Not sure. But I think I would go for detail. Plus I think that it would be able to add details earlier.
Thanks Sam, loved the show. As ever from Canada, happy modeling.P
Bought two of the Rapido versions, detail good, but I found mine derailing in several places on my track, there is no "play" in the wheel axles and as a result the flanges start to grind and lift even on radius 3 not helped because its such a light wagon. I will have to reduce the back to backs to stand any chance of running the wagon. Does not bode well for the lowmac wagon just announced 🤔
Buffer to buffer competition,
like that, glad they each focused in different areas as it will give customers more options, sad that there are slacks on both ESPECIALLY given their price but i guess thats how the fracki- i mean ahrem retail now works.
There is a manufacturer called ,,Amintiri Feroviare’’(Railway memories) that are only available in Romania,you should try one of their locos
Currently doing scenics on my layout and making quite a mess.
If there's no mess involved it's not fun!
Ahh it's a messy job - worth it though!!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I might get one of these, although I might wait until the price comes down, but we'll see.
Cheers Jasper & Willow
I'd strongly suggest that - like I say, I don't expect the demand to be high!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Did you know with the rapido GWR Loriot Y wagon is number 41990 and the real 41990 Wagon is preserved at the Severn Valley Railway also remember that SECR 5 Wagon you reviewed, it’s number is 12522 and the Real 12522 wagon is also preserved at the Severn Valley Railway
I guess I will be getting the rapido one as it comes i the Titfield pack.
In the 1950s,I am sure I had one of those in a Hornby Dublo(three rail) set,I stood on it,but managed to to straighten it and show no ill effects ,I wonder what price it would fetch now...
When I started building plastic wagons, I found I had to weight the wagons and I found the minimum weight for satisfactory running was 35 gm.
Decent review here Sam, to be honest both look quite good from the looks of them both, if I was to get one I’m not really sure which I would go for, funny how we mention rakes because today I just received a 15 old hornby HAA hopper wagons which are going to go with my other 10 so I actually have a rake of 25 of those now.
They're decent models tbh. Maybe not as good as modern Accura or Hornby ones but still decent imho
Yeah both look fine don't they - good level of detail on both anyway! Ooh excellent - that's a huge rake!! :O
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Given the results of the rolling and coupling tests, if I was looking at buying one, I would go for the Rapido wagon, regardless of the weight difference between the two.
An interesting review comparing the 2 products.
The Rapido version looks slightly better IMHO (although I haven’t seen either of these in the flesh).
The lack of weight doesn’t appear to be an issue on the Rapido wagon either & once a die cast load (of a Catapillar or JCB) has been added I would imagine this would improve the performance too.
I think theres a lot to love on your rating scale, but I think quite a lot of things end up being E grade, I think it may need rebalancing or more grades in the lower tier?
I mean they took the points well, so at least they beat literally everything Dapol for running. And the couplers are the right height so they beat dapol there too!
Id get the rapido one personally, put a weighted load on it and that really fixes my only gripe.
As the Rapido is in GWR that is the one I would get. I have an old kit, Parkside I think, of a very similar wagon I should dig out and save my money.
just thinking could take the coupling off one end and use the hornby era 1 locos on them
easy answer, Get the Body From Hornby and the Chassis from the Rapido. Boom 50 quid model
Hope you are feeling better. Thankfully I don't need to purchase a Loriot Y for my railways as I wouldn't be spending my own money on one after watching that. I have my own Triang based Dan's house/coach wagon anyways so don't even need one for that purpose.
Funny you should say that about rush jobs, I'm still waiting on the 88DS!!
Interesting review; thanks. You could increase the weight of the Rapido wagon by adding a load, and if you wanted better value, there’s the Cambrian kit. OK, it’s more work and it’s a Loriot W, but it’s also £14.70!
Very useful comparison, Sam; more like this please!
Looks like the Hornby version keeps jumping on the rear axle. You’ll notice it especially during the sequences after the scores. Is there a problem with the back to backs?
The wood decking on both models would be incorrect after they had transported there first load. To secure loads wedges and blocks would have been nailed or screwed to the timbers, loading marks where point loads would split the surface, over time rotten or badly damaged timbers would be replaced.
Nice review on the models sam.
As a truck driver, the trailer version of this wagons are called "low boys" and they're extremely susceptible to getting stuck on railroad crossings. There's some pretty crazy footage of a train striking a stuck trailer sitting on the tracks. I don't think anybody was injured thankfully, but still, what a mess.
My late uncle's house had it's driveway right next to a railroad crossing. A lowboy trailer load of steel matt (used to place drilling rigs on it) high centered on the crossing; when the train struck it, it created quite a mess, scattering steel matts all over his yard.
I prefer the Rapido one on appearance but I'll wait until these hit the bargain bin!
Yeah, Rapido's is definitely the better looking one for detail... can see them in bargain bins for sure!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Re the Hornby model, not sure about the coupling issue! (I would just deal with it) but the free (or lack of) rolling is something that all wagons/coaches should be able to do. Not sure that I like the woodgrain effect on the Hornby model. In real life this would have become dirty very quickly, covered in oil etc depending on the load!
There is a Wrenn lowmac that looks pretty close to the Hornby one.
great review im sure but i stopped the video at 2:56 after you said the price as i know ill never buy either at what in my opinion is a 20 quid top wagon, all the best Sam'sTrains👍
I would rather have the Hornby and possibly fix the rolling and coupling issue myself
Wah wah wahhh Hornby took notes from heljan on the Coupling
Oddly in Australia the Hornby Version is cheaper than Rapido. ATM.
But at $79. Aud for Hornby & $85 for Rapido. ( 2024) 🤔🙄
Obviously, Hornby prob'ly have a Larger BRAND name aka. Clout..!
And Maybe, Distribution..!?
But think I will buy a Wellwagon from another supplier, if I am in that much Need..!
Or just Buy a Bottle of Booze, Something Nice and Toast both 'Hornby & Rapido' for their Stupidity and or Greed.🎉😂🥳
And then just Not Buy Either..! 🤔
So much to Choose from so little Money 'Hic..!'
Pour me Another..!
Great Review Sam as Always..! Cheers All..!
😎
Great video as usual! The prices in this hobby have gotten absolutely ridiculous, to the point where I mainly just buy pre-owned models or budget models. These models are not worth between €30-€50, and honestly those prices are just insulates toward the customer. Both are flawed, which would be fine if say these models were say between €17-€22, but at these prices the issues are unforgivable. If I was to pick which model I prefer, I would go with Rapido just because the damn thing works properly, and on top of that it is cheaper, but really, I’m not going to buy ether of these. I’m not disappointed in Hornby, as I have been for ages, but I am disappointed in Rapido, as they generally are much better than this.
Like the look of Hornbys version so will get the Hornby version during a sale
Sounds good - thanks for sharing!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Hornby would never normally have gone for such an obscure type. The Loriot Y in Hornbys case was a rather cynical landgrab of movie rights without permission. Perhaps thats why the price is so high, nobody outside of certain legal circles knows what Hornby had to pay Studiocanal for their blatant copyright theft.
You're right they wouldn't - haha that's possible too - could have been costly for them!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
That's not surprising but I didn't know!
Remember what was designed to pull it a small Lion locomotive. Hornby were freed from this constraint when they messed up. So rapido designed theirs for the titfield set
Sometimes the reasons are not immidiately obvious
Test them behind the lion locomotive
Nah - Rapido's Lion is going to be more powerful than Hornby's (so they say), and with bearings even a 50g wagon would be incredibly easy to Haul... Lion only has to haul one of these and a few other bits... it wouldn't have struggled! Even Hornby's Lion could easily haul 3+ of these Hornby Loriots!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Having a wagon made of plastic like Dapol's is pretty standard. For the price you'd expect not, but still, it doesn't seem to affect the performance and they got more detail into it.
Normally die-cast is a feature I'd go for but considering the ugly peg-rivets and the horrible couplings I'd say Dapol's is best.
Even disregarding that, I would have still got Dapol's anyway just because I don't want to support Hornby's conniving business model.
I wasn't going to pick one up until I watched this review. But it suddenly dawned on me that I bought a couple of traction engines that would look really good on one. However I'll wait and see if they go on sale since even 33 pounds at Hattons is too much. You can get an Oxford Warwell for that.
Are Rapido's gravity defying tie-down points designed to be accurate with a load on the wagon and chains/ropes to secure it whilst Hornby's is modelled empty?
One is longer than the other, I think the Hornby is the longer, especially the flat bits above the wheels! Which one is more accurate?
Fair comparison Sam. A tad too much over-repeating whining about price we thought tbh. This hobby with detailed models has always been expensive, and these trucks seem to be a rarity; aimed at avid proficient modellers. That said, H have gone on a path of imitating Märklin in too many ways but their quality isn't even half of it and with so many defects and errors by design and in manufacturing all the time. Well, it explains them being back in deep troubles of course.
On this one, they've just ruined a (potential quality) model by skimping on non-sprung couplings... How silly... Rapido really can't convince us either with detailed but rather cheapo constructions and fairly high error rates usually as well. Interesting comparison though. Both have clearly taken different routes as for this model.
Metal would certainly always be our preference and the price would be fine for us, but then that most silly coupling construction 🙄 Cheerio.
haha thank you! I always say that expensive models are fine if they're worth the money - but these weren't, and their inadequacy for the money was multi-layered, so a degree of repetition was necessary... but I agree, I probably do overemphasise issues of cost, but mainly because I feel very strongly about it. Yes, with models like this, it makes sense that Hornby are in deep troubles... they're not contributing much to the hobby/industry with models like this,
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
why on earth would you want a wagon made of metal? You want to keep rolling stock as light as possible
I HAVE to assume they're so expensive as most people wouldn't buy more than two, so they bump up the price. That's just my theory though, and it's still utterly bizzare that they're so expensive 😵
I also have to know--what's going on with those wagons at the right in the rankings?? is that box van powered? It doesn't have a locomotive pulling it
Cool video!! :3
Such a hornby moment, trying to make a better wagon but failing todo even that lol
With the weight difference between the 2, i wonder if theres any issues with them being the last in a rake especially if going backwards
Which ones best🤔, easy Oxford Pilchard 😅
Hey Sam their cheap compared to prices in oz AUD $110 enjoy cheers
A very intriguing and interesting review. It is very strange why Hornby's runs so stiffly and the couplings are a strange decision.
Bullman has a new wagon!
Hello Sam. Once again I have watched your video with its great informative review and I feel as you do, they're each good in their own ways but, I find it still difficult to choose a winner? I'm now eagerly awaiting the next video.
Interesting the scale weight of the Loriot Y is 31g.
Very interesting video today Sam I kind of like both but I will probably give them a miss
I assume they've both put the price point very high because they think no one would buy them anyway. And no one will buy them anyway because of the very high price point. This is kinda of a logic in the end, but... ^^'
Both models are too expensive for me. I prefer the Hornby on weight and 'looks', but still not enough to 'shell out' for either.
What trucks were used in ww 1 and ww2 for tank transport?
Personally, I typically value die cast construction fairly highly, but those couplings are simply unforgivable! I wonder if it would be possible to get the Hornby wagon, but then order all the separately fitted parts from the Rapido wagon as spares, and rebuild the Hornby wagon into something worth owning.
11:18 one of the manufacturers has clearly got this wrong.. they are of the same prototype as evidenced by the serial number.. yet the tie down hooks are in a different place on both models.. and surely, if they are the same prototype they would both be the same colour? Unless one is preservation and the other is pre-preservation ?
They are, but one is GWR and the other is BR, so they're separated by a number of years... it could be that they were modified during their lifetimes
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Greetings from Oz mukka,
In football terms... it sounds like it was a three all draw, with all the goals scored being own goals!!! 😂😂😂
Both companies tripped over their own feet in their haste to get their stock to market. Serves them both right if no one buys them. I'll wait for them to go on special!
Hope this costs Hornby dearly. Unless fools.
Cheers. Gaz
23:59 which one would you prefer Sam, I think the answer is pretty obvious lol.
Cheers Jasper & Willow
haha yeah - got to be Rapido for me!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
There is a great western locomotive model in HO that I really think you should at least try. The great western cathedral 8098,think of it as a sort of copy of the lms famous 4-6-2s with only a few minor changes
The cathedrals never existed lol
I'll think I'll just stick to my Airfix Flat-bed Wagon thanks Sam, but thanks any way 🤔🚂🚂🚂
Ive got my loriot coming with the titfield set wheb it comes out. Heard august for the release. Why cant it be august now. Great review sam
Ahh sounds fantastic - can't wait to see how the entire set turns out!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
You are a Modelrailwayman of true culture, Sam
I'm surprised the Hornby version didn't come with an old coach body load !🤣 Maybe thats why they didn't feel the need to go to town on the brake detail.
hahaha I know!! "Ben's House"
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Hey guys. Has anyone bought an Accurascale FNA-D ‘New Generation’ Nuclear Flask Carrier yet? I order mine last week as a bit of an impulse buy, but still waiting for my delivery.
The price is madness, and surely one could of looked at the other and done the other running number, which is annoying, I would expect for a wagon north of £25 to be die cast so for me the Hornby one is the one that appeals, plus the nice wood decking, extra rivets and NEM meaning easy Kadee conversion, but I’m going to wait for the price to drop suitably before I even consider either
Well there was only 2 in real life, so the choice of running numbers is very limited this time. I agree, the Hatton's warwells are £25 and those are diecast, have twice the number of wheels, and double the weight of these... madness!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
That's shocking on the part of both companies. How long until someone designs and prints their own version I wonder? ;)