Just to clarify, for "systems off" in the Tesla it was set to track mode with stability assist set to -10 (lowest setting) and regen set to 25%. For traction the FR balance was 50/50 and for handling I found 65/35 the fastest. Disclaimer, this was shot nearly 2 years ago so and it was a rental vehicle so no idea how up to date the software was. There might have been a software update since then, but I found the same at the start of this year.
Well that makes the 'first gen vehicle' comment a little more appropriate, but even then it was like 3rd or 4th gen, if you can even measure teslas like that.
Shouldn't you have selected "Slip mode" for the snow driving in the Tesla? As this shuts down the TC completely? At least it does on the RWD and Long Range models
Now this isn't very scientific, but for what it's worth - when I got my M3 3 years ago it felt more like a rear wheel driven car, over-steering and fun. Now it feels more like a front wheel drive care sliding over the front wheels when turning on snow. I can however also relate to the inconsistency you mention. Just when I think this is how it behaves, it changes and is fun for a sec. I wish I had more control and could pick the software version in the car, so it matches my prefs.
I didn't extensively test slip mode as we only had a day to test and film however track mode does allow slip and it overrides slip mode. The internet implies that slip mode allows some slip (not total freedom) and disables at a certain speed. I'm sure there's been plenty of updates since filming this. 2 years - we do winter testing in Jan - March and I didn't have time to finish the edit for last winter, so I saved it for this winter.
I think there is a good reason why EV cars doesn’t allow to fully turn off TC even in their performance versions, because EV has so much instant power/torq you have to be super precise with acceleration pedal and also it’s very hard to control wheelspin and powerslides without gearbox.
Yes, you'll never be able to fully turn off TC because, as you say, torque. People would be in ditches/trees/bus stops and even those with some self control, imagination and skill would be moaning tyres only last one day.
@@thebrowns5337 It's not really torque but weight in my opinion. Torque is torque, whether it comes from an ICE or an electric motor doesn't matter. And in theory, the "throttle" in an EV should actually be much more controllable, because it's immediate. I drive a RWD combustion engine car with 700 Nm atm and it will happily go sideways at 1/3 of the throttle already, but it's super easy to control. Difference is, the car weighs 500-700kg less than any EV.
Yeah, and? Don't want their overbearing nanny control freakiness. Give us full slider control of systems on/off from 100% to 0%, and then I might consider buying one. Until then, combustion still rules the roads if you want to drive hard and fast around corners. RS4 is pretty much my dream car, what a beast, and it fits all your stuff, people, and surfboards. Sick as.
@@patrickf2386yep. I compare this with a corvette wich I drove. On wet roads without any tc it spun the wheels on low revs instantly. Not much difference to an EV. I don't want to compare wich cars are faster than a corvette an cheaper to set it clear 😅
It's not just the immediate torque. It's also that the front and rear motors are physically uncoupled. Without the software to control, the front-rear bias is whatever the motors intrinsically have, and there is no centre differential to control wheelspin at one end. The two ends of the car are essentially independent.
They did an amazing job with electronics, but failed with unreliable motors, design and materials. Cybertruck can't even pull a trailer because its rear will break off - whole bumper with some frame.
@@Traumatree 235 vs 245, its actually not that big of a difference. Main difference is the motor vs ICE. The model 3 is considered lightweight EV, it's heavier than the Audi but only by ~200lbs so not much.
Love my audi s3 and my model 3 both in the snow. What i learned is that the tesla just goes no matter how steep the hill is with snow. It just keeps pushing. What i love about the audi is as you said the predictability of how the car does arround corners. From a safety standpoint tesla wins it hands down From a funfactor i give it to the audi 😉 That summs up my experience as a swiss who regularly drive in the mountains
The tesla being heavier will chew up tyres more quickly... (costing more) proven. The tesla will chew up brake pads quicker and create more poisonous polluting particle dust.. (costing more) proven. Therefore - buy the Tesla!!!
Using the same exact tires is key to understanding the real differences between the cars themselves. This test showed two of the most fun and best snow cars you can buy anywhere. The Audi didn't surprise me based on their decades of quattro development and rally heritage. It's pretty much everything you could want in a street car for year round use. The Tesla was impressive considering how young the company and the Model 3 is. Considering how simple the 3's drivetrain is and the fact that you can adjust the front-to-rear torque split, it's a winning combination in my mind.
Loved seeing snow traction on vs sport vs off! It gives us mortals an idea of how it might work for us. Keep it up with winter tire content, would love to see impact of tire width and more EV content, notably the BMWs. My BMW i3s has 155 19" tire/wheel set for winter and 195 20" summer set. Being RWD, my rear tires get chewed up SO FAST, by far the most expensive part of driving my car is tires every couple of years!
tesla hasnt come really far lol!!!! traction control systems have existed for decades and had been dveloped by mercedes and BOSCH, i think some audi have a locking diff on their awd system
@@CONNNEprobably the bus didn't need much to get pulled out, quattro is not magic, many modern drivetrains can spin all four wheels at once especially on snow, so it's down to the tyres and amount of traction they have. Quattro won't magically increase grip of the tyres that are on the car. Main torsen quattro advantages compared to clutch based AWD systems are robustness and predictability on moderate/low grip surfaces.
People forget it's all down to tyres. The best system in the world is still running on four small patches of plastic (tyres are not really rubber these days) on a very slippy surface. The worst thing is some drivers think their 4x4/all wheel drive/quattro etc makes their car better all round on snow and ice - in terms of braking it makes no difference. So they barrel towards a corner or back of a queue and end up in trouble.
@@thebrowns5337Exactly. I live in the second snowiest city in Canada (Saguenay) and most cars I see in ditches in winter are AWD SUVs. That's because AWD might help the car to accelerate faster on snow, but it doesn't help to steer nor to brake. The higher speed those people are going increases their risks of crashing
As Model S LR owner and RS7 owner this review is spot on. The Tesla AWD system works very well when it works but its a bit unpredictable there are a lot variables it playing with and it errors on the safe side (my car doesn't have track mode so can't turn of ESC or change torque split). The Audi on the other hand almost feels like a sledge hammer in a good way, it was predictable but almost felt like it was allowing a lot of slip (ESC Sport). It isn't an apples to apples comparison though since I have directional snow tires on the RS7 and high performance winter tires on the Tesla but whenever it snows I reach for the RS7 keys.
I'm from Florida, never seen snow, and found this to be really interesting. Something that will also be interesting is based on the new Cybertruck, and according to the Hagerty video on it, that it's now all steer-by-wire. That will certainly come to the other models soon, and it means they'll be able to really dial in steering however you want it, beyond just making it heavier. Just think in a few years that you'll be able to buy performance tires, then download profiles for those tires based on the conditions, and how you want to drive. That could be amazing, and here much sooner than you might think.
Murican freedom saved your a.. in ww2, and today Russians eat dirt in Ukraine using (mostly)US ammunition because EU is the " virgin girl" who wants to get married to a rapist from Russia and live a easy life using Russian oil and gas.
That’s actually a really smart comment. The idea of downloading a specific steering profile based on current tires and road surface sounds insane but it’s probably just a couple of years away.
It was some time ago so unsure if it was an option but the tesla does have "slip-start" option (not in track mode) which could have made difference also
I was thinking the same thing. My Tesla M3 Performance has had the slip start option since 2018 and still does. That feature is designed for starts on limited traction surfaces. Track mode is for track day on a high traction surface.
Do bear in mind that power balance slider in track mode is only for when steering lock is applied (I don't have the data for the point at which it's active). When the wheel is straight it's Tesla default (same as 50:50 on slider)
I own an S5 and the car is absolutely amazing in the snow with Blizzaks. Without a doubt, the best, most confident feel of any car I’ve ever driven with snow tires. What surprises me is how good it is in the snow even with the summer tires.
Even with a lot of modern IC cars, the electronic nanny systems really kill any kind of fun in the snow. I guess they help people who are just trying to get where the are going, but they make aggressive driving frustratingly unpredictable.
I’ve been driving a B9.5 RS4 on winter tyres for a couple of weeks and am genuinely surprised by how modern winter tyres can handle the car’s 600Nm torque on cold but not yet icy tarmac (Pilot Alpin 4 275/30R20). I can send the car flat out from cruising around 50-60mph without making the tyres squeal. If they didn’t make whining noise at low speed passengers won’t know it’s on winter tyres. Amazing. It’s great to know they’re going to perform this good on the snow too.
I have pilot Alpin 5 in Polestar 2 BST and I cannot stop being amazed how good those tires are in everything else than wet ice. And even on ice they are still drivable.
Dream test conditions💪💪💪 Driving on a track like that is a game and life changing experience as even on very moderate speeds gives you loads of adrenaline and ideas about how the car would behave on some extremely high speeds which will not be safe on the regular track and particularly not on the regular road. Perfect execution and great filming💯💥🔥
It would be really interesting to see the comparison between an older Torsen Audi and a newer Haldex Audi. My gut feeling is the full time Torsen will perform better than the "lock the clutch up when it slips" Haldex but I've been wrong before!
I didn’t even care for the comparison. I care not for EV’s. Just wanted to see that awesome RS4 have fun in the snow for nearly 20 minutes! It’s even in my fav colour!
great review as usual! 👍👍 Just wanted to add that quattro ultra (first appeared with a4 b9 allroad 2.0 ) isnt the same thing as haldex (uses hydraulic clutch at the rear wheels). All audis (a3,a1,q2,q3.) that has latitudinally mounted engine uses haldex and all models of vw that has 4motion. haldex more of an FWD usually engages when there is a slip detected. Ultra is more engaged systems and depending on which drive mode you are in... i.e in practice it will disengage rear diff with "ultra clutch" (sets of wet clutch plates, at the back of transmision) on straight highway speeds with normal conditions, when there's no need to drive whole driveline and sets of gears like torsen quattro to reduce friction and losses - ergo more fuel consumption. Todays quattros are more of an emblem thing as you know. there is bunch of videos and study explanation on yt btw your tests are mandatory in my opinion! 💪
Minor correction - neither the current RS3 or Golf Type R use a Haldex system. Audi currently have 4 different quattro systems in use for their ICE vehicles, so not sure what you meant by the emblem thing. Not a great surprise that Jonathan likes the rear biased self-locking centre diff version, it suits his driving style 😂
Yes the latest RS3 uses RS torque splitter, when you look at SSP it looks like there is two of "ultra clutch"/awd clutch on each drive shaft in the rear :D but i didnt mention RS models ;) Didnt mean in negative context, but more in the way that nowadays there is a couple of quattro versions (better or slightly less better variants) with pros and cons in setup with same emblem that real audi connoisseur will recognize :D PS didn't dive to deep into RS3 tqsp quattro, but seems like way to go 😬 @@glisse499
btw what do you mean with "they are different system"? there is no two versions of "ultra" it is quattro with ultra technology like you said or commomly used way of saying the same thing "quattro ultra" ;)@@ego4551
@@karlo8570The difference between quattro ultra and haldex is only the driveshaft disconnection. Torque transfer is basically the same, actually haldex is even more active as it's never entirely open.
Great test. Nice video. What I learned from the video : with all systems ON, as usually a car is driven, Tesla wins in Stop&Go. It also wins in braking distance on snow by 2 m. The two are what does matter in a normal usage of the car during winter/snowy roads. Not bad for a car made by nerds who 10 years ago didn't know how a car works and not by an OEM who does 4WD for decades.
For best all wheel drive u need to test 2018+ subaru wrx sti with DCCD control, u can adjust what u need to be quick :) with active vectoring , helical-type limited-slip front differential and TORSEN limited-slip rear differential...it's proper snow machine... can u test also the same tyre in different rim sizes with one car, because test show some wierd differences .
I know this is older, but at least now, Tesla has a slip start option for winter driving. 😉 The Tesla is clearly limiting power to prevent slip in this video.
Great video as always and thank you for making this content (tyre reviews/comparisons), these videos helped me decide on tyres and have confidence I'm driving my family on safest tyres possible. (but when alone also knowing that when I push the car out of grip it's because of me, not the tyres. :) But something completely off topic, looking at this thumbnail is the first time it struck me how big the model 3 actually is. It looks so small on its own but it's the same size as an A4, never noticed that.
Great test. Great place to do it too - that slope could be really illustrative in comparing different tyres (makes, winter vs 4S/AS) and drive systems (2/4) .
Thank you & Please, keep on going! it is such an interesting, rare and useful content. I wish you also compare other different AWD systems: AUDI, BMW, Mercedes, Acura, Ford, Nissan, Toyota, SubaruCadillac, Volvo, etc.
I'll have the Audi, thank you. I love a warm engine when I'm surrounded by snow. A couple of gasoline jerrycans in the trunk are great to have for peace of mind... always carry a 5 gallon steel jerrycan when planning a trip in the winter and may get stuck in a snowstorm.
@RemoteSpeed007 your wrong enjoy the diesel Generator charge and african children slave labour that supplied you minerals for the first of 3 batteries you buy
During the drag race portion you mentioned turning the systems off on the Audi on run 4, but did you also turn on track mode to get more control of the Tesla as well?
Proper Quattro is a mechanical permanent AWD system, you are the first person i have heard mentions the benefits of having all 4 wheels mechanically linked, feeling very consistent and planted. On demand systems haldex/xdrive etc which use a clutch revert to one driven axle when engine braking and can't give the same consistency- not to mention they can over heat.
Both companies are using mechanical awd systems and the ones based on clutch packs. But if you look at the top of the top system made by each company - Audi has never ever made as sophisticated system as Subaru DCCD (or Mitsubishi S-AWC from Evo).
Hey Jon, I wonder compared to the Audi, if you would like the BMW X-drive even more, with apparently a slightly more rear bias than Quattro!? Maybe you could conveniently coincidentally try that comparison in snow handling one day👍
Loved this! Looked so much fun.Two great cars, even if the Tesla is a bit sterile (altough most drivers need the car to look after them on snow/ice more than they care to admit).
Nice to see how the Tesla performs full tilt in the snow, something I will never do---chicken. I can vouch how safe the Tesla M3P performs in the worse wintery conditions. For a family hauler, probably one of the safest vehicle to be in. Excellent nanny on board, never had traction issues and always keep you strairght...and this is on UHP all season tires.
I used to have a 2018 Subaru forester XT and it did handle better in the snow than my model 3 performance. But overall they are still pretty good in the snow.
If you thought the RS4 AWD system is impressive, you should try and see what an Audi E-TRON can do! It would be fun to pit it against the Tesla........."apples to apples" Jon.
Great video! I really enjoyed seeing how impressive they both were in the snow. The Audi is simply an incredible driving machine. However, it costs a lot too. You can get a Tesla Model 3 Performance for $41K after tax credits in the US right now. You can't buy an Audi RS4 here but if you could it would be at least double that. Also, If you navigate to a SuperCharger with the Tesla it can add as much as 100 HP by heating the battery especially in colder temps like that. It probably wouldn't have made a huge difference in the snow but if you ever test a Tesla Model 3 Performance in the dry for straight line acceleration you simply must heat the battery first. It isn't a reasonable comparison otherwise.
If you're using the car properly in track mode, the battery will heat up pretty quickly. It needs cooling rather than heating, and that is exactly what it does.
@@marcOSSNL for straight line acceleration testing it won’t heat the battery quickly enough especially if it is cold out. For road course testing you would be correct. However, for straight line testing like they did in this video Track Mode will make the car MUCH slower on dry surfaces.
So is this tire actually good for real world alps driving where most of the time it's just wet? I have Continentals on and i'm not really happy, also i did torn off some pieces of thread doing accelerations
Very nice video done right! If i can add, Quattro Ultra is everything but Haldex. Very different. Its still Torsen but with clutch packs instead of the center differential, so the system can disengage the rear to save fuel and mechanical drag if needed (which is 95% of the time in normal driving). Its also proactive, rather than reactive like Haldex, it will engage awd before its needed so you will never see the difference with a permanent awd. Its in fact less strong in harsh offroad conditions than Quattro, but an A4 isnt made for that anyway. I have an allroad with Ultra and before I knew it had Ultra, i thought it performed better than my b8 a4 with Quattro. The things it can do on snow is amazing😂
Sadly, it sounds like that because there's lots of fake speaker noise inside the cabin. That V6 sounds like a vacuum cleaner with all the OPF filterage and noise regs.
Why haven't you used the actual slip start option in the Tesla which is meant for snow?! Using track mode isn't the same, actually it's far away from the same.
I'm very pleased that you are rolling on the P Zero Winters. There's almost no information or reviews out there on this tire. I almost throw them on my Audi this year, but I'm still waiting to see either more reviews or more tests from those using them daily.
Same. I'm happy with my S5 and it's an absolute beast in the winter but the RS models are just next level. Audi really needs to bring the RS4 to North America. We need more performance wagons here!
@@plop31 Not sure where you get your monetary stats from but you are objectively wrong. Look, these are just cars. Who cares in the long run? The RS4 is better in this test (besides braking). If you like the Tesla, well, that's awesome. It's a great car. Some people (like me) would prefer the Audi. And again, who cares... The RS4 (competition) lists for roughly 87k (US) while the Tesla model 3 is around 55k (US). 2023 models. Yep, the RS4 is more. But you get more and you can easily mod it for high power (unlike the Tesla). Tesla makes some really nice cars but currently ICE is where it's at in the long run. To each their own. I won't fault anyone for chosing a Tesla over an Audi. Make your choice and I'll make mine. Have a good day!
@@plop31 I quoted the price (around 55k) For a 23 model 3 (not long range and not performance because, well, thats even more money). Are you claiming the rs4 in this video is, absolutely positively a minimum of 165k?! Youre the one who said it was "3 times" the price...
@@plop31 If you want a model 3 performance go and get it. It's a fun car. I'll stick with ICE. I happen to think the Audi is a better choice. No hard feelings. It's just opinions. Pricing is not though. I hope we enjoy the drive. Regardless of what we drive.
When stuck with your car in dirt or snow, intelligent controlled torque is way more important than the skills showed in these snow drag races. And no other car maker has better torque control than Tesla. See it here: ruclips.net/video/1n_iyYqm2rQ/видео.html
@tyrereviews The only other way to do it would be using Slip Start, which is Tesla's version of TC Off, track mode with -10 TC seems to just try and spin, but only when you turn the wheel. Doesn't mean it would've changed anything, this is just what I've noticed with playing around with track mode on mine.
If you knew anything or LISTENED TO THE VIDEO you’d know there is no “off” on the Tesla. It goes to -10 but it’s still engaged. You can NOT turn it fully off. And yes I own a 2022 M3Perf
Any thoughts on how this comparison might have gone if you did the same tests with the Nokian Hakka R5? Would that make it a little closer to dry asphalt, so advantage to the Tesla? Or would it just enhance the Audi's ability to take advantage of wheel slip?
Majority of the time, in real life situations, Audi will gets smashed by the M3P. Especially with winter tires and having fraction control on. It probably costs half the price or even less in Finland too due to stupid car tax, yes?
Just to clarify, for "systems off" in the Tesla it was set to track mode with stability assist set to -10 (lowest setting) and regen set to 25%. For traction the FR balance was 50/50 and for handling I found 65/35 the fastest.
Disclaimer, this was shot nearly 2 years ago so and it was a rental vehicle so no idea how up to date the software was. There might have been a software update since then, but I found the same at the start of this year.
Well that makes the 'first gen vehicle' comment a little more appropriate, but even then it was like 3rd or 4th gen, if you can even measure teslas like that.
2 years ago?!?! Why wait so long?
Shouldn't you have selected "Slip mode" for the snow driving in the Tesla? As this shuts down the TC completely? At least it does on the RWD and Long Range models
Now this isn't very scientific, but for what it's worth - when I got my M3 3 years ago it felt more like a rear wheel driven car, over-steering and fun. Now it feels more like a front wheel drive care sliding over the front wheels when turning on snow. I can however also relate to the inconsistency you mention. Just when I think this is how it behaves, it changes and is fun for a sec. I wish I had more control and could pick the software version in the car, so it matches my prefs.
I didn't extensively test slip mode as we only had a day to test and film however track mode does allow slip and it overrides slip mode. The internet implies that slip mode allows some slip (not total freedom) and disables at a certain speed. I'm sure there's been plenty of updates since filming this.
2 years - we do winter testing in Jan - March and I didn't have time to finish the edit for last winter, so I saved it for this winter.
I think there is a good reason why EV cars doesn’t allow to fully turn off TC even in their performance versions, because EV has so much instant power/torq you have to be super precise with acceleration pedal and also it’s very hard to control wheelspin and powerslides without gearbox.
Yes, you'll never be able to fully turn off TC because, as you say, torque. People would be in ditches/trees/bus stops and even those with some self control, imagination and skill would be moaning tyres only last one day.
@@thebrowns5337 It's not really torque but weight in my opinion. Torque is torque, whether it comes from an ICE or an electric motor doesn't matter. And in theory, the "throttle" in an EV should actually be much more controllable, because it's immediate. I drive a RWD combustion engine car with 700 Nm atm and it will happily go sideways at 1/3 of the throttle already, but it's super easy to control. Difference is, the car weighs 500-700kg less than any EV.
Yeah, and? Don't want their overbearing nanny control freakiness. Give us full slider control of systems on/off from 100% to 0%, and then I might consider buying one.
Until then, combustion still rules the roads if you want to drive hard and fast around corners.
RS4 is pretty much my dream car, what a beast, and it fits all your stuff, people, and surfboards. Sick as.
@@patrickf2386yep. I compare this with a corvette wich I drove. On wet roads without any tc it spun the wheels on low revs instantly. Not much difference to an EV. I don't want to compare wich cars are faster than a corvette an cheaper to set it clear 😅
It's not just the immediate torque. It's also that the front and rear motors are physically uncoupled. Without the software to control, the front-rear bias is whatever the motors intrinsically have, and there is no centre differential to control wheelspin at one end. The two ends of the car are essentially independent.
The RS4 sounds lovely
It's just fake engine noise from speakers
@@Olppaexcept it isn't 😂
I love my 2018 RS4. Same basic car minus the facelift. I turned my soundaktor off and can confirm, it’s the car sounding like this, not speakers.
@@THjorth the RS4 definitely has fake noise coming from the speakers.
The fake noise sounds stupid
The fact that you even compare these two vehicles is a HUGE win for Tesla
A good way of looking at it
They did an amazing job with electronics, but failed with unreliable motors, design and materials. Cybertruck can't even pull a trailer because its rear will break off - whole bumper with some frame.
More like huge win for Audi. AWD EV has the traction control advantage since the respond time of a motor is way way faster than ICE.
@@michaeltan9512 EV mostly has the weight advantage for their tire size. Put less wide tires on that Audi and see how it rockets.
@@Traumatree 235 vs 245, its actually not that big of a difference. Main difference is the motor vs ICE. The model 3 is considered lightweight EV, it's heavier than the Audi but only by ~200lbs so not much.
Love my audi s3 and my model 3 both in the snow.
What i learned is that the tesla just goes no matter how steep the hill is with snow. It just keeps pushing.
What i love about the audi is as you said the predictability of how the car does arround corners.
From a safety standpoint tesla wins it hands down
From a funfactor i give it to the audi 😉
That summs up my experience as a swiss who regularly drive in the mountains
Genau 👍
Does the performance of the T3 drain as the charge drains ?
@@Super-lucky-7777unfortunately yes, not lineary (difference between 100% and 70% is very hard to tell, but diff between 60% and 30% is big)
@@namp007 ok thanks.
Finally......a test that eliminates the tire variable!
both of these cars had tires
Super interesting comparison for us tire and drivetrain obsessed people👍 love the focus on keeping it unbiased and using the same tires😁
The tesla being heavier will chew up tyres more quickly... (costing more) proven.
The tesla will chew up brake pads quicker and create more poisonous polluting particle dust.. (costing more) proven.
Therefore - buy the Tesla!!!
Definitely not unbiased… and I understand his preference for the RS4 … that sound is awesome
Using the same exact tires is key to understanding the real differences between the cars themselves. This test showed two of the most fun and best snow cars you can buy anywhere. The Audi didn't surprise me based on their decades of quattro development and rally heritage. It's pretty much everything you could want in a street car for year round use. The Tesla was impressive considering how young the company and the Model 3 is. Considering how simple the 3's drivetrain is and the fact that you can adjust the front-to-rear torque split, it's a winning combination in my mind.
Those fenders on the Audi bring back memories of the Quattro rally car, looks so cool!
I like the world where 220kg is "a few kilos"
I noticed that too. When he said a few kilos I specifically looked at the weights and was like….wait…😉
Loved seeing snow traction on vs sport vs off! It gives us mortals an idea of how it might work for us. Keep it up with winter tire content, would love to see impact of tire width and more EV content, notably the BMWs. My BMW i3s has 155 19" tire/wheel set for winter and 195 20" summer set. Being RWD, my rear tires get chewed up SO FAST, by far the most expensive part of driving my car is tires every couple of years!
Buy a proper BMW.
Super fun to watch comparison. Hats off to Tesla for a far they have come, but nice to see Ingolstadt still be the champ at its own game.
Because weight...
Yeah, they kinda made it still win 😅
tesla hasnt come really far lol!!!! traction control systems have existed for decades and had been dveloped by mercedes and BOSCH, i think some audi have a locking diff on their awd system
@@carholic-sz3qvshut up kid 🤡
@furieux6742 I live In Canada and when there are ice and snow outside we put some bricks in our cars for better traction
More weight is better
Incredible video mate, Lou and I loved it ♥
Kudos for using the same tyres on the cars. It is alarming for how many testers that does not understand the importance of this.
Tesla did surprisingly well. This is flagship Audi product.
RS6/7 would be Audi’s flagship cars
@@stealthhtm23 RSQ8 would be more flagship.
@@Fanaleds-software why would an suv be a flagship car? lol
@@stealthhtm23 I purchased my Tesla model 3 Performance with 12tsd km for 37.500€. No Service costs, no taxes and only 5 liter consumption.
I would like this test done with Nordic winter tyres. As a Swede, it looked like the tyres are quite bad for snow/ice compared to what we use up here.
lol
To Audi: Give this man only Torsen models so that he can use them more often in his videos.
Yes, he should never use haldex to represent Quattro. If using haldex just use a VW so as not to muddy the waters.
As a RS6 owner entering winter, this made me so happy 😇
quattro is just built different. I've seen a 3.0 diesel quattro pulling a bus out of snow few years ago
@@CONNNEprobably the bus didn't need much to get pulled out, quattro is not magic, many modern drivetrains can spin all four wheels at once especially on snow, so it's down to the tyres and amount of traction they have. Quattro won't magically increase grip of the tyres that are on the car. Main torsen quattro advantages compared to clutch based AWD systems are robustness and predictability on moderate/low grip surfaces.
People forget it's all down to tyres. The best system in the world is still running on four small patches of plastic (tyres are not really rubber these days) on a very slippy surface.
The worst thing is some drivers think their 4x4/all wheel drive/quattro etc makes their car better all round on snow and ice - in terms of braking it makes no difference. So they barrel towards a corner or back of a queue and end up in trouble.
@@thebrowns5337Exactly. I live in the second snowiest city in Canada (Saguenay) and most cars I see in ditches in winter are AWD SUVs. That's because AWD might help the car to accelerate faster on snow, but it doesn't help to steer nor to brake. The higher speed those people are going increases their risks of crashing
@@arekb5951watch some videos.. and learn more about quattro
As Model S LR owner and RS7 owner this review is spot on. The Tesla AWD system works very well when it works but its a bit unpredictable there are a lot variables it playing with and it errors on the safe side (my car doesn't have track mode so can't turn of ESC or change torque split). The Audi on the other hand almost feels like a sledge hammer in a good way, it was predictable but almost felt like it was allowing a lot of slip (ESC Sport). It isn't an apples to apples comparison though since I have directional snow tires on the RS7 and high performance winter tires on the Tesla but whenever it snows I reach for the RS7 keys.
I'm from Florida, never seen snow, and found this to be really interesting. Something that will also be interesting is based on the new Cybertruck, and according to the Hagerty video on it, that it's now all steer-by-wire. That will certainly come to the other models soon, and it means they'll be able to really dial in steering however you want it, beyond just making it heavier. Just think in a few years that you'll be able to buy performance tires, then download profiles for those tires based on the conditions, and how you want to drive. That could be amazing, and here much sooner than you might think.
truck is pure useless rubbish, it would perform much worse than 3
@@chiboreachehow would you know ? Are you working at Tesla ?
@@Gilbertus64 i'm just not mirricas🤷♂ i have brain in my head, instead of wind of the freedom🦅
Murican freedom saved your a.. in ww2, and today Russians eat dirt in Ukraine using (mostly)US ammunition because EU is the " virgin girl" who wants to get married to a rapist from Russia and live a easy life using Russian oil and gas.
That’s actually a really smart comment. The idea of downloading a specific steering profile based on current tires and road surface sounds insane but it’s probably just a couple of years away.
It was some time ago so unsure if it was an option but the tesla does have "slip-start" option (not in track mode) which could have made difference also
I was thinking the same thing. My Tesla M3 Performance has had the slip start option since 2018 and still does. That feature is designed for starts on limited traction surfaces. Track mode is for track day on a high traction surface.
quattro is quattro.. still the king :)
Quattro is a marketing name for over twenty different types of awd systems.
Do bear in mind that power balance slider in track mode is only for when steering lock is applied (I don't have the data for the point at which it's active). When the wheel is straight it's Tesla default (same as 50:50 on slider)
Awesome video 👍 Would also be interesting to see some EV RWD testing in same conditions.
I´m impressed how fast that kitchen appliance is on the snow.
😂
lol. It's a very fun appliance
@@tyrereviews Yup, I tried a couple of them. They are lots of fun, like toys.
I own an S5 and the car is absolutely amazing in the snow with Blizzaks. Without a doubt, the best, most confident feel of any car I’ve ever driven with snow tires. What surprises me is how good it is in the snow even with the summer tires.
Come on! It can't be good in snow with summer tires! Neither of cars can.
Love these reviews. So much info to process and not dumbed down in its description of feel and technique.
Even with a lot of modern IC cars, the electronic nanny systems really kill any kind of fun in the snow. I guess they help people who are just trying to get where the are going, but they make aggressive driving frustratingly unpredictable.
Which is why I'm thankful you can still turn them off in the RS4 instead of pulling an abs fuse
99% of people will drive in these conditions with all systems on, Tesla wins in that situation.
Which is why even a regular BMW 3-series is fun on snow, because even in the G20 you can turn DSC off and it is fun.
@@iain8837 but those 99% of people will just get a regular A4 Avant or LR Tesla, not a performance version
@@harryspeakup8452 In real life we don't have a prepped road or fluffy snow banks, we have curbs and traffic
I’ve been driving a B9.5 RS4 on winter tyres for a couple of weeks and am genuinely surprised by how modern winter tyres can handle the car’s 600Nm torque on cold but not yet icy tarmac (Pilot Alpin 4 275/30R20). I can send the car flat out from cruising around 50-60mph without making the tyres squeal. If they didn’t make whining noise at low speed passengers won’t know it’s on winter tyres. Amazing.
It’s great to know they’re going to perform this good on the snow too.
I have pilot Alpin 5 in Polestar 2 BST and I cannot stop being amazed how good those tires are in everything else than wet ice. And even on ice they are still drivable.
I really want to see a real Quattro Audi from the 90's or 80's to see the difference .
There were a few systems in 80s. In 90s to.
No you dont... because torsen was 1WD drive and you will never guess which one.
Very close results, but with price difference I consider that Tesla is the winner by far! Great video! 👍
Dream test conditions💪💪💪
Driving on a track like that is a game and life changing experience as even on very moderate speeds gives you loads of adrenaline and ideas about how the car would behave on some extremely high speeds which will not be safe on the regular track and particularly not on the regular road. Perfect execution and great filming💯💥🔥
Woohoo!! What a great, fun video! Well done.
It would be really interesting to see the comparison between an older Torsen Audi and a newer Haldex Audi.
My gut feeling is the full time Torsen will perform better than the "lock the clutch up when it slips" Haldex but I've been wrong before!
Isn’t heldex only on the small Audis with the transversely mounted engine (like a3 or q3)?
There are at least "Ultra Quattro" A4s that have Haldex 4WD system. But I think they are only the 4cyl models, not RS with 6cyl.
@@rkan2Quattro ultra is not haldex. Both are using clutch packs to power rear wheels but they are different systems.
@@waltheflSmall models and 2nd gen of R8.
As a 60 + person who grew up drifting everywhere, I approve this video!
I didn’t even care for the comparison. I care not for EV’s. Just wanted to see that awesome RS4 have fun in the snow for nearly 20 minutes! It’s even in my fav colour!
Buy one
Thank you for this great on snow test. My 2 favorite cars
great review as usual! 👍👍 Just wanted to add that quattro ultra (first appeared with a4 b9 allroad 2.0 ) isnt the same thing as haldex (uses hydraulic clutch at the rear wheels). All audis (a3,a1,q2,q3.) that has latitudinally mounted engine uses haldex and all models of vw that has 4motion. haldex more of an FWD usually engages when there is a slip detected.
Ultra is more engaged systems and depending on which drive mode you are in... i.e in practice it will disengage rear diff with "ultra clutch" (sets of wet clutch plates, at the back of transmision) on straight highway speeds with normal conditions, when there's no need to drive whole driveline and sets of gears like torsen quattro to reduce friction and losses - ergo more fuel consumption. Todays quattros are more of an emblem thing as you know. there is bunch of videos and study explanation on yt
btw your tests are mandatory in my opinion! 💪
Minor correction - neither the current RS3 or Golf Type R use a Haldex system. Audi currently have 4 different quattro systems in use for their ICE vehicles, so not sure what you meant by the emblem thing. Not a great surprise that Jonathan likes the rear biased self-locking centre diff version, it suits his driving style 😂
Small correction, The quattro in the B9 was quattro with ultra technology and not quattro ultra. They are different systems.
Yes the latest RS3 uses RS torque splitter, when you look at SSP it looks like there is two of "ultra clutch"/awd clutch on each drive shaft in the rear :D but i didnt mention RS models ;)
Didnt mean in negative context, but more in the way that nowadays there is a couple of quattro versions (better or slightly less better variants) with pros and cons in setup with same emblem that real audi connoisseur will recognize :D
PS didn't dive to deep into RS3 tqsp quattro, but seems like way to go 😬 @@glisse499
btw what do you mean with "they are different system"? there is no two versions of "ultra"
it is quattro with ultra technology like you said or commomly used way of saying the same thing "quattro ultra" ;)@@ego4551
@@karlo8570The difference between quattro ultra and haldex is only the driveshaft disconnection. Torque transfer is basically the same, actually haldex is even more active as it's never entirely open.
No questions, just pure fun watching this. Amazing! Keep up the good work.
Great test. Nice video.
What I learned from the video : with all systems ON, as usually a car is driven, Tesla wins in Stop&Go. It also wins in braking distance on snow by 2 m. The two are what does matter in a normal usage of the car during winter/snowy roads. Not bad for a car made by nerds who 10 years ago didn't know how a car works and not by an OEM who does 4WD for decades.
Great video! Now compare price tags 🙈
Wait till there is -30 C and then compare this cars again 😂
Where do you live?
Right, the RS4 won't start, that's going to be a problem
Awesome video!!!Congrats!!!
For best all wheel drive u need to test 2018+ subaru wrx sti with DCCD control, u can adjust what u need to be quick :) with active vectoring , helical-type limited-slip front differential and
TORSEN limited-slip rear differential...it's proper snow machine... can u test also the same tyre in different rim sizes with one car, because test show some wierd differences .
Can you please share tyres size + specifications for Tesla
I know this is older, but at least now, Tesla has a slip start option for winter driving. 😉 The Tesla is clearly limiting power to prevent slip in this video.
tesla was never a driver's purist machine that you say at 14:55 . it has always been the technologist's purist machine
Great video as always and thank you for making this content (tyre reviews/comparisons), these videos helped me decide on tyres and have confidence I'm driving my family on safest tyres possible. (but when alone also knowing that when I push the car out of grip it's because of me, not the tyres. :)
But something completely off topic, looking at this thumbnail is the first time it struck me how big the model 3 actually is. It looks so small on its own but it's the same size as an A4, never noticed that.
Great video, many thanks
Great test. Great place to do it too - that slope could be really illustrative in comparing different tyres (makes, winter vs 4S/AS) and drive systems (2/4) .
All good and fun, but I wonder how many laps can you do in the Tesla before it will not allow you to drift at all?
Question is how many laps can you do without getting tired, sick and dizzy? 🤢
Quattro power 💪
Thank you & Please, keep on going! it is such an interesting, rare and useful content. I wish you also compare other different AWD systems: AUDI, BMW, Mercedes, Acura, Ford, Nissan, Toyota, SubaruCadillac, Volvo, etc.
you didn’t mention what settings you used for the track mode. those make all the difference. “systems off” would be 50/50 and traction at 5
Traction was at -10, after a lot of playing I found 65/35 (r/f) fastest
Another brilliant video! Thank you!
did you turn on slip start on the Tesla?
Amazing video, I don't think I have ever seen you with a bigger smile while doing a test, ever :D. I am happy you enjoyed the Torsen in snow!
I'll have the Audi, thank you. I love a warm engine when I'm surrounded by snow. A couple of gasoline jerrycans in the trunk are great to have for peace of mind... always carry a 5 gallon steel jerrycan when planning a trip in the winter and may get stuck in a snowstorm.
Except you need approx 6x the amount of energy on the ICE compared to the Tesla.
@RemoteSpeed007 your wrong enjoy the diesel Generator charge and african children slave labour that supplied you minerals for the first of 3 batteries you buy
Is the comparison even? Or is it apples 🍎 to oranges 🍊?
40K Vs 160K car.
How about Model X/S plaids? Or CT?
Lmfaoooo
You were lying, Model 3 costs 50 dollars, rs4 is 5 million
During the drag race portion you mentioned turning the systems off on the Audi on run 4, but did you also turn on track mode to get more control of the Tesla as well?
you should probably watch the video because he already answered the question
@@jammaschan yeah, and he was wrong. Track mode lets the wheels spin. So it would have been a good and fair race.
@@topgunm if you already know the answer then don't pretend to ask a question, just say your opinion.
Track mode was turned on for the drag races with systems off, along with tc set to -10
@@jammaschan i didn't write the original comment 🤣
Dude @tyrereviews you're at 25% battery on the M3P... Way less than ideal for performance. Try again at 80%> SOC for better results.
Makes zero difference on snow. Won’t be ever using even half of its HP
Proper Quattro is a mechanical permanent AWD system, you are the first person i have heard mentions the benefits of having all 4 wheels mechanically linked, feeling very consistent and planted. On demand systems haldex/xdrive etc which use a clutch revert to one driven axle when engine braking and can't give the same consistency- not to mention they can over heat.
Its called a torsen quattro system
That's why Subaru AWD is top.
@@Traumatree not even close
Both companies are using mechanical awd systems and the ones based on clutch packs. But if you look at the top of the top system made by each company - Audi has never ever made as sophisticated system as Subaru DCCD (or Mitsubishi S-AWC from Evo).
@@connorleyland8695There's much more than torsen.
Does anyone know the name of the wheels on the Tesla Model 3?
Hey Jon, I wonder compared to the Audi, if you would like the BMW X-drive even more, with apparently a slightly more rear bias than Quattro!? Maybe you could conveniently coincidentally try that comparison in snow handling one day👍
He has made a full xDrive vs Quattro test
Quattro is more forgiving than x-drive, I would love to test a subaru
Loved this! Looked so much fun.Two great cars, even if the Tesla is a bit sterile (altough most drivers need the car to look after them on snow/ice more than they care to admit).
Nice to see how the Tesla performs full tilt in the snow, something I will never do---chicken. I can vouch how safe the Tesla M3P performs in the worse wintery conditions. For a family hauler, probably one of the safest vehicle to be in. Excellent nanny on board, never had traction issues and always keep you strairght...and this is on UHP all season tires.
Great Test 👍
Rs4!!!❤
A bit unexpected video, but it's great, thank You.
quattro ultra is not haldex ...
I used to have a 2018 Subaru forester XT and it did handle better in the snow than my model 3 performance. But overall they are still pretty good in the snow.
I think you should have tried track mode on model 3, would be interesting on traction test
Track mode was enabled whenever the systems were off.
In Teslas you can't turn off the traction control completely even with Track Mode, that's why Audi wins easy the drag race with TC off.
Very nice review, keep going (drifting).
Id take the awesome RS4 engine sound roar over the whisper quiet electric Tesla engine any day of the week.
The fake roar you hear on the inside sounds stupid
If you thought the RS4 AWD system is impressive, you should try and see what an Audi E-TRON can do! It would be fun to pit it against the Tesla........."apples to apples" Jon.
Great video! I really enjoyed seeing how impressive they both were in the snow. The Audi is simply an incredible driving machine. However, it costs a lot too. You can get a Tesla Model 3 Performance for $41K after tax credits in the US right now. You can't buy an Audi RS4 here but if you could it would be at least double that. Also, If you navigate to a SuperCharger with the Tesla it can add as much as 100 HP by heating the battery especially in colder temps like that. It probably wouldn't have made a huge difference in the snow but if you ever test a Tesla Model 3 Performance in the dry for straight line acceleration you simply must heat the battery first. It isn't a reasonable comparison otherwise.
If you're using the car properly in track mode, the battery will heat up pretty quickly. It needs cooling rather than heating, and that is exactly what it does.
@@marcOSSNL for straight line acceleration testing it won’t heat the battery quickly enough especially if it is cold out. For road course testing you would be correct. However, for straight line testing like they did in this video Track Mode will make the car MUCH slower on dry surfaces.
No doubting the Model 3 Perf is INSANE value
So is this tire actually good for real world alps driving where most of the time it's just wet? I have Continentals on and i'm not really happy, also i did torn off some pieces of thread doing accelerations
Beatiful Audi!
Very nice video done right! If i can add, Quattro Ultra is everything but Haldex. Very different. Its still Torsen but with clutch packs instead of the center differential, so the system can disengage the rear to save fuel and mechanical drag if needed (which is 95% of the time in normal driving). Its also proactive, rather than reactive like Haldex, it will engage awd before its needed so you will never see the difference with a permanent awd. Its in fact less strong in harsh offroad conditions than Quattro, but an A4 isnt made for that anyway. I have an allroad with Ultra and before I knew it had Ultra, i thought it performed better than my b8 a4 with Quattro. The things it can do on snow is amazing😂
"few kilos heavier" - 220kg. Yep. Just a few.
Haha exactly, stupid idiot assessments like that are why I hate lots of these journalistic reviews and tests. 220KG is two full fat grown men.
The Tesla isn't anywhere near 220kg heavier though. Closer to 20kg heavier.
this is what I wanted also to mention. 220kg of difference. this is over 10% heavier than Audi.
Where was this filmed if i may ask?
Rs4👍
Hakkapelitta R3 vs R5?
And Hakkapelitta 9 vs 10?
What you you think about those and why?
Whats this strange noise of the grey car?!?
Rev limiter.
Great test!
Id take ANY Audi over ANY Tesla ANY day
obsolete tech.. do you also use flip phone? 😂
2.00 har de ens körkort??
I prefer engine sound. The Audi sounds great
Sadly, it sounds like that because there's lots of fake speaker noise inside the cabin. That V6 sounds like a vacuum cleaner with all the OPF filterage and noise regs.
I wounder if they selected snow tires in the Tesla settings? And what difference this setting would make.
the Audi is gorgeous.
Sure does. That white thing looks like a piece of white bread on wheels
@@wolfgangbarrio5043As if the Audi looks any better 🤣🤣🤣
@@stayphun6188 tf you mean, rs4 looks sexy af
@@wolfgangbarrio5043 It's basically german baroque, looks boring and outdated.
@@stayphun6188 Looks like a great performance sedan, aggressive and still subtle. While the Tesla looks like a bloated Dodge Dart. Trash lmfaooo
Why haven't you used the actual slip start option in the Tesla which is meant for snow?!
Using track mode isn't the same, actually it's far away from the same.
If the Audi broke down I'd still choose it over the teslaaaaaas.
I'm very pleased that you are rolling on the P Zero Winters. There's almost no information or reviews out there on this tire. I almost throw them on my Audi this year, but I'm still waiting to see either more reviews or more tests from those using them daily.
I'd take the RS4 everytime.
Me too. A fast car over a fast appliance any day. Factor in built quality, fit and finish and Audi has my vote.
Same. I'm happy with my S5 and it's an absolute beast in the winter but the RS models are just next level. Audi really needs to bring the RS4 to North America. We need more performance wagons here!
@@plop31
Not sure where you get your monetary stats from but you are objectively wrong.
Look, these are just cars.
Who cares in the long run?
The RS4 is better in this test (besides braking).
If you like the Tesla, well, that's awesome.
It's a great car.
Some people (like me) would prefer the Audi.
And again, who cares...
The RS4 (competition) lists for roughly 87k (US) while the Tesla model 3 is around 55k (US).
2023 models.
Yep, the RS4 is more.
But you get more and you can easily mod it for high power (unlike the Tesla).
Tesla makes some really nice cars but currently ICE is where it's at in the long run.
To each their own.
I won't fault anyone for chosing a Tesla over an Audi.
Make your choice and I'll make mine.
Have a good day!
@@plop31
I quoted the price (around 55k)
For a 23 model 3 (not long range and not performance because, well, thats even more money).
Are you claiming the rs4 in this video is, absolutely positively a minimum of 165k?!
Youre the one who said it was "3 times" the price...
@@plop31
If you want a model 3 performance go and get it.
It's a fun car.
I'll stick with ICE.
I happen to think the Audi is a better choice.
No hard feelings.
It's just opinions.
Pricing is not though.
I hope we enjoy the drive.
Regardless of what we drive.
When stuck with your car in dirt or snow, intelligent controlled torque is way more important than the skills showed in these snow drag races. And no other car maker has better torque control than Tesla. See it here: ruclips.net/video/1n_iyYqm2rQ/видео.html
You guys didn't turn off traction control in the Tesla for any of the launches
It was set in track mode with systems set to -10 (the lowest setting), what else did I miss?
@@tyrereviewsyou missed the fact that Tesla fan boys don't let silly things like the truth get in the way of their opinion 😂
As far as I know traction control doesn’t improve acceleration in snow or off road
@tyrereviews The only other way to do it would be using Slip Start, which is Tesla's version of TC Off, track mode with -10 TC seems to just try and spin, but only when you turn the wheel. Doesn't mean it would've changed anything, this is just what I've noticed with playing around with track mode on mine.
If you knew anything or LISTENED TO THE VIDEO you’d know there is no “off” on the Tesla. It goes to -10 but it’s still engaged. You can NOT turn it fully off.
And yes I own a 2022 M3Perf
Any thoughts on how this comparison might have gone if you did the same tests with the Nokian Hakka R5? Would that make it a little closer to dry asphalt, so advantage to the Tesla? Or would it just enhance the Audi's ability to take advantage of wheel slip?
Majority of the time, in real life situations, Audi will gets smashed by the M3P. Especially with winter tires and having fraction control on. It probably costs half the price or even less in Finland too due to stupid car tax, yes?
audi
There is not a lot of 4K footage on RUclips... Top drawer video!
Very nice test circuit. What place is it ?
I presume it's in Sweden on lake Hornavan in Arjeplog. Very big winter cartesting centra there 👍
Okay 🤔interesting the Tesla does everything better than the Audi with systems on and that's what matters in reality. And all for a lot less money too😅
Try driving from calais to kitzbuhel in
@@djabbt4171Where the hell is that? Kitzbuhel I mean.