Why the Starting Pistol MATTERS
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- Опубликовано: 9 июл 2024
- Progression is one of the biggest elements that make up classic zombies, and I take a look at how it been slowly eroded away in the latest games.
Chapters:
00:00 Intro
00:42 Starting Pistol Mechanics
02:08 Limited Starting Weapons
04:06 Cold War's Issue
05:39 Progression Matters 
Игры
One time I commented on a CW review video why I disliked the "Create a Class" System they have, and someone replied saying "its simple - don't use the other guns and start out with the M1911"
Why as a player would I put myself at a disadvantage when there is a better option? Why would I spawn with a pistol when I can spawn with a Shotgun or AR on round 1?
Not only that, but with the scrap system in CW, you can literally just keep your loadout and upgrade the rarity/tier of the gun, which makes box weapons and wall weapons completely obsolete. I'm sure you've all done this for Camo grinding.
The thing that makes older zombies special (i'd even argue BO4), is that when starting with a pistol you have a progression throughout the later rounds and get stronger. You start off weak, and get progressively stronger along with the zombies. The issue with CW is that you spawn in with an instakilling shotgun, you are already overpowered. Where is the progression?
Exactly, that’s why I despise the Cold War Wunderfizz. Because you can’t make the argument of “if you don’t like it, don’t use it” because you are wasting time if you don’t go buy all the perks back from it. They made that the dominant strategy and it made the actual perk machines pretty much useless
Naw but fr tho lol Cold War Zombies was if multiplayer had a baby with zombies; Outbreak was if previously mentioned baby had a baby with warzone & now MWZ is literally just DMZ with zombies in it. I truly don’t think we’ll ever see a full return to form for zombies, Activision has cut out everything that made zombies unique to appeal to multiplayer & warzone players. Almost everything I loved about zombies died when our Characters died at the end of Tag. We need to stop relying on Treyarch and Activision to give us want we want because we haven’t gotten that since the end of zombies chronicles. The Bo3 customs community is the only thing we should aim our attention towards, WE are the only ones who can make zombies what we want it to be.
Exactly all this. And on top of that the 1911 in vold war is actually a decent weapon so it would still let you keep it until pack with no issues. This is actually what I did to play cold war for a while and it still sucked
do you play every campaign on easy mode too?
@@yllruk13 u talking to me? If anything CW is the easiest zombies mode out of all the rest. what are u on about.
A handgun, a knife, and 2 grenades should be the standard for any zombies map on round 1
and if you want variety, you only get to change to another pistol.
E.g.: in black ops 3's case either MR-6, or M1911 or the Mauser C96
@@Al_Kabana That can definitely work. If anything, I love how certain maps have unique starting pistols. The Bloodhound in Shadows of Evil is a really good example
kar98 gang rise up
I miss the whole "early round vulnerability" aka the two hit down system thats the whole point of the mode is to start off very weak and as the rounds go on you become an OP monster with perks and an upgraded weapon. Overpoweredness must be earned by purely your knowledge, skill of movement, and point management
Once i discovered that you can upgrade weapon tiers in Cold War,i never once felt the need of using the mistery box...
It’s funny cause I remember them saying that they specifically added rarity’s so that the mystery box Would still be useful yet when the base game release had the system to let you upgrade your rarity completely negating it, god knows what they were thinking
Such a great point. I feel like ever since they made the fixed point system, it has completely killed weapon variety. As much as I like BO4, I have no idea what they were thinking there. If they’re continuing with a fixed point system, they should make it to where each weapon class has assigned fixed point values. That way weaker weapons like pistols, SMGs, ARs, and LMGs could net you more points.
Wow that’s a really clever way of thinking of a way to meet treyarch half way if they really wanted to keep there current system
The best part of starting pistols was the fact that they usually were powerful af when pack a punched so you had to make the decision to keep the bad starting weapon to wait for PaP, or lose it for better weapons that likely wouldn’t be as good as the pistol when pack a punched
Exactly, you had to make sacrifices to limit yourself for a while by holding onto that pistol. Now it's just the meta to keep whatever starting gun you have 😔
It added a lot more replayability, that's for sure.
"You begin with your trusty Handgun, as rounds passes by and more essence you gain you can get better weapons with better power."
-The Zombies Pistol Start Dilemma
I always found it odd in bo3 that they added the laser sight and fast mags, they are soft replacements for speed cola and dead shot but they can be stacked for a stronger effect or frees up 2 perk slots. I like what the T6 mod does where you only get the attachments after pap’ing the weapon just like in older cods.
Weapon kits would be alot better if they were “pack a punch kits” and only assigned your camo and attachments once you packed. It would be a bit more magic back to the pack a punch
I totally agree, I definitely think the starting pistol matters as it builds progression, love this video, keep it up!
✅ agreed
You know I will 😁
It makes sense on Outbreak and MWZ, because of the map progression and wide selection pool of weapons. I would make a change to it in cold war, make it so that you can only use pistols, all the pistols are great in cold war so it would make sense having them as a starting gun. BUT YES starting pistols are so special and are almost the core of whatever zombies game it is in.
I always thought allowing attachments that increase damage was weird, I can get down with a red dot and a grip but something like fire rounds is way to much
If it were tied to pap I would understand, but being able to spawn in with an upgraded gun is just dumb
"the weakest gun in the game"
Springfield 🗿
I like the ability to spawn in with whatever you want more than I like the concept of a starting pistol, however I think every weapon should be scaled to zombie health and access to upgrading your weapon should be teased out throughout much later rounds. CW’s biggest problem isn’t that it’s easy, it’s that the earliest rounds are too easy; CW high rounds are actually pretty challenging. Especially if you’re not set up by then. And that’s because you can upgrade your weapons way too early and way too easily, on top of them already being fairly powerful.
I didn't mind too much when in BO3 they let me upgrade my starter pistol a little. As well as many other guns in the game (even if they maybe went too far with how powerful some guns can get with upgrades).
But as soon as they made it so I could choose other guns off spawn even if they're relatively weak just doesn't feel right.
Nothing but facts my dude. Whats the point of putting in the effort & progressing when you can just have everything handed to you. Its crazy to see how much zombies has fallen from grace
Actually i keeping pistol for mustang and sally
What started issue was precustomization in bo3...with been best and worst thing ever happened to zombies
WW2's Pack A Punched M1911 and MM9 Sap pistols are the best weapons in that game.
And the SDK sniper is extremely OP in WW2 (although you can’t spawn with it like those pistols)
In WW2 the technical "starting pistol" is the P08, nobody uses it and it's literally unobtainable on every map except maybe GH unless you start with it. WW2 isn't really an issue too much as the meta still mostly revolved around starting with the 1911 or 9MM SAP which still fill the weak starter pistol role, the other choices aside from maybe the M1A1 carbine are all pointless as that's a really good weapon packed that's once again unobtainable without starting with it on all maps except for GH. Every other starter weapon in WW2 aside from those 3 serve no purpose. who in their right mind is spawning in with a KAR98K or sawed off shotgun?
BO4's technical starting weapon is the welling but we all know what happened there
CW-MW3 completely removes the point of the box & wallbuys, MWZ especially when every single chest you open has the chance of giving you a weapon for no cost but of course barely any of that matters if you're camo grinding anyways, you're already taking in the weapons you're working on.
The first time I ever played Cold War zombies was on a friends Xbox series X he booted me into a game just so I could play solo and I started with an assault rifle. I asked if I could start with a pistol, and he gave me a strange look. people have a abandoned starting pistol and it’s sad to see because the starting pistol was always so creative and always so interesting with how it was a pack, a punched and how it changed between maps and games.
Bring back my Mustang and Sally’s
I agree, thank God someone finally spoke up about this!!!
I don't think the progression is "broken" because of not starting with a pistol, because of the progress system in CW, having you to camo grind a weapon, and I mainly play zombies, meaning I level a primary from 1 to 55 and a Sec from 1 to 35-36 only in zombies, I feel underpowered if I don't upgrade the gun, and not many rounds need to go by until I feel that disparity of the zombies against me, of course, it is most noticeable on Pistols, Knifes, Snipers, Tact Rifles, but it's still there, and I don't feel like the Mystery box and Wall guns are Obsolete. Whenever necessary I buy them and grind them if I see something good, I loved the old thing, but the new thing ain't bad.
Remember, change is not the problem, being narrow-minded is the problem, if you don't like a feature, try to take the best out of it, so you can still enjoy your game.
I'm an OG when the talk is zombies.
(Unfortunately I couldn't play WaW zombies back in the day, but I started with BO1 onwards), and I felt that CW zombies was really good, the Intels, the EEs the Weapons were overall good and all of them were usable, (yes, Tact Rifles and that Semi-auto Sniper as well) so it was a great improvement while still connecting some dots with the old thing.
At least we didn't have slide cancel.
Be grateful for that folks
We start off with pistol only in Warzone. Maybe they could do pistol only starts and have it so for like 10k points you can buy your custom loadout like in wz. Then fans of pistol only starts and fans of brining in custom weapons would both be happy
The packed 9mm sap is the most insane starting pistol ever
Wall weapons and the mystery box are literally just glorified set dressings nowadays. I am also someone who really values progression in Zombies, thats why i loathe systems like Gobblegums (and their equivalents) as well as spawning with any weapon i desire.
One of my favorite ways to play BO4 is to play Custom Mutations with the only changes being that starting weapons and special weapons are disabled. Actually forces you to use wall weapons and progress as natually as you can in BO4.
I was dissatisfied and disappointed with the lack of stress of playing Cold War zombies. I never run weapons... i usually run melees, but I think the point of the starting weapon is to see how well you'd advance. Are you going to play it smart by building more points with a wall buy purchase or gamble the box.
I believe in game progression and being rewarded. I really like how bo3s rewarded you with completing revelations Easter egg.
I can really relate to what your saying no cap. I’m definitely subscribing 👍
I might be in the minority here, but I think bubblegums were still kind of okay. It was nice to have a random gum for free that lasted a limited time in the early game (it added something to look out for while waiting for zombies to spawn), and then they became super expensive so you couldn't abuse it.
The mega bubblegums on the other hand are absurd... I only used them occasionally if I wanted to switch things up.
Black Ops 1 Zombies goes so hard. I was playing it on splitscreen the other week!
Solution, use a different starting weapon for each new map. If there sick of using the m1911 all the time
Can't believe I never knew CW used a modified engine of BO4 because it felt more like MW2019 to me which I'm not really a fan of.
I still don't believe it. I'd have to see a video of a developer doing maps in Radiant, a tool they used since Call of Duty 2.
The mechanic would of actually worked fine enough in Cold War if they add just made it so that starting tier weapons (red) were not upgradable via scrap.
Super Easter egg reward could of then been enabling this feature so that you could? I dunno just a thought of how we could of met them half way with the idea
This is fax bruh I don’t understand why they change so much when ppl never asked for it or want it like they still doing objective based modes after vanguard when the community hated it and still keep making these objective based modes it’s like they are trying to change zombies into something that no one asked for
It's as if they don't care what the community wants or something 😑
Great video, I was making this point when I found out Cold War would have custom loadouts on spawn and said this exact thing would happen, takes away from the progression. Great video my friend
That's why in Cold War I always spawn with the 1911 and progress with buying guns of the wall and hitting the box, it's a better progression and a more fun one, I hate to start with a really good weapon on the first rounds because it isn't right in my mind and it's not fun anymore.
Couldn’t agree more. Less is definitely more when it comes to zombies
I love the cold war zombies main theme song, it progresses in a slow but very beatiful way unlike its zombie game mode.
And yeah I agree, progression is vital for zombies and something that cw zombies sorely lacked.
I always make sure to get music from all the zombie games for my vids 🙂
Amazing Video!!!
Anyone who started on waw/bo1 should have no problem seeing how bad Treyarch fumbled zombies
I was fine with starting with any gun in Cold War, especially when the devs love to add 500 dlc weapons to the game. This made the camo grind on BO4 much more tedious than what it needed to be. Especially with Cold Wars much improved gun upgrades, it felt nice that most guns were effective at higher rounds (to an extent), given that weapons in previous games were pretty much useless after a certain round, especially in games like World at War, BO1 and exo zombies
The issue is that they were TO effective on high rounds. Most guns kill in 3 bullets on round 100 plus when fully upgraded
@@CJSanta I feel like it made it fun. Getting to high rounds with guns which if put in another zombies game wouldve been useless beyond round 25. It was better than BO4’s system which had a multiple upgrade system, every gun on that game was impractical to run except the helion salvo and a handful of wonder weapons.
seeing this like i used to eating dinner and just haveing a good time. i miss those times you really bring them back tbh.
I'd say it's too predictable as to how your game is going to go. I remember BO1 where everyone got the MP40 but ultimately, it came down to skill and luck when you wanted to get to higher rounds because of the randomness factor. EVERYONE fucking sighed out a breath of relief if you could get the thundergun, everyone used to shit themselves running for perks because you were vulnerable.
And by God it was fun to play with randoms or friends.
What's stupid about this is that the choice was there all the from the beginnings in WAW and BO1.
Do you open the left door, or the right one? Do you get Kar for less points or M1 Carbine, which is must better but costs much more? Do you get Stamin-Up or Double-Tap?
All these choices that don't break the feeling of progression, but do the opposite, synergie with it.
Starting pistol remove armour plates and make zombies 2 or 3 hit you without jug
I like what WW2 did as they gave you an option to start with something else but the starting pistol upgrades were the most op so most people would start with them anyway
You make a great point. So many dont think about how limitations make games fun and rewarding. Thats how i feel about attachments for guns as well. They are a good concept in multiplayer but zombies has perk machines that fit that role. Or even PaP. They could even make a new upgrading machine to install attachments just like in fortnite. So many features i feel, should be in game.
When bo3 added fast mags as attachments for almost all the guns it, made speed cola completely obsolete 😢
The newer games really proved this, you have to genuinely "handicap" yourself to actually get that classic energy from a match, but it STILL doesn't have that energy because the movement, it feels so much worse in comparison to even WaW, and the fact that they keep trying open world zombies despite every example of something that's at least close to it has been bad is crazy too, like actually think, look back at maps and modes involving open world, tranzit, outbreak and MWZ. Need I say more?
I do and don't disagree. I think the old mechanics were great and especially keeping the 1911 to get one of the best PaP's weapons in the game, but at the same time having variety in Cold War to play an easier match is fun too. I got Dark Aether in Cold War and using all the different weapon types is actually a lot of fun even when I was maxing the trash ones (the only weapon I chickened out on for now is the 20mm sniper rifle, that thing is WAY too slow), but I get it's not everyone's cup of tea. At the same time I appreciate say Black Ops 2, I'm always going back for more. Point being, I like both and I think variety in playstyle and difficulty is good and no one way should be abandoned. I haven't played MWIII but it looks like it has potential, round-based is fun and always different, and even other modes like Grief. Difficulty is a good thing to have variation in too between maps and even games overall. That said, I gotta disagree Cold War maps all play the same. Outbreak aside which I do think is a blast, Die Maschine is the least unique, very standard but not at all bad. It has the Megatons which, though annoying, add to the map. Mauer der Toten is very CQC-heavy and the layout is unique, not being a map you can loop around. Firebase Z has the defense rounds AND tons of Elite enemies, and my personal favorite Forsaken has tons of elites, Abominations, a Moon-like starting area, teleporters, and ziplines. Not to mention, each map has its own Wonder Weapon which are all unique. So sure, while it's easier in some sense, I don't think that makes it bad.
great video, i completely agree, zombies is supposed to be a barebones struggle for survival but since cold war it's just become a mindless mob shredder game with next to no difficulty minus bosses that are broken
Mob shredder is a perfect way to describe it!
Tbh bubblegums started to ruin it. People will just buy every door and do pap in round one.
Great video!
Apart from the horrible gameplay changes, I feel the worst change has been the overall multiplayer/warzone feel, whereas classic zombies always felt grounded, the world felt tangible and every zombie kill carried some weight to it, it felt completely separate from the other modes in almost every way, every map was its own experience
I don't know about being grounded dawg... Zombies has always been the somewhat eerie but fun mode, thats part of the personality of it, it has monkey bombs and perk a colas for gods sake
@@RockHoward256 It felt grounded within its own world, the classic maps had a certain immersion that has been completely missing ever since Cold War
All they had to do was make a "classic" mode and a "modern" mode. I feel like that could've pleased most people.
Kind of would split the player base heavily. Reminds me of the time Infinite Warfare added the "softcore" game mode that was boots on the ground with weapon damage altered a bit... People asked for BOTG, got it, and didn't play it. Heavy, heavy lag and the same players every lobby.
But, Infinite Warfare was doomed from the start due to the bandwagon hate. Was faster, more precise and responsive, and felt lighter than BO3 in every way... But heck, going back to it now, it feels like Halo on the original Xbox 🤣
@@cooliusmaximus5802 so I guess the best way to go about it is to make it more like the classic zombies experience. Don't make it an option, just make it the whole game mode.
I think PAP doing nothing but basic damage and mag size increases is lame as hell. PAPing guns in a game like bo2 actually does shit like making the b23r full auto or giving the m16 a grenade launcher with 10 shots.
Cold War is strange. While you can start off with any weapon in the game, the blueprints system really helped save Cold War. Because In modes like onslaught where if you wanted to use an M60 or an MP5, you could apply a schematic to it!
Then again tho I was the dork that stopped running shotguns after Mauer when I realized that dominant strategy can get really boring. Like when everyone in your squad has the Hauer shotgun, that ain’t fun lmao
When I do play cold War, I deliberately spawn in with a pistol. At least to try and emulate the feeling of older zombies.
@@CJSanta I respect that as well. I would do that with Cold War but the gun variety in Cold War really sucks
@MaD_MrL see even the devs knew that this is a problem because I've seen (though I haven't played it because I hate outbreak) but there's a mode where you spawn in with just a weak pistol.
It's called Outbreak survival I believe.
@@CJSanta I should’ve rephrased this my apologies. The pistol variety in Cold War sucks. At least in MWZ, you got like 5 different semi autos, a couple bursts, full autos and revolvers to throw into the mix
@MaD_MrL The only interesting one is the Marshall, but again, that was from Bo3 🫤
I never liked gobblegum either. Its why i never could get into bo3 zombies like I did with bo1 and 2. Nice video, hopefully we get a good classic zombies experience in the future.
You sir, have earned a new Subscriber 👏
in my opinion, i slightly like the loadout system for zombies, but i think you should be limited to stock loadouts (based on what diffuculty you play on) but since you get stock loadouts you also get a incredibly high diffuculty, basically you drop in as in a reinforcment or to scout out a place, which would make it realistic. but no launchers and that bs and it would still get harder each round and you cant add attachments just normal pistols or snipers or some shi, but no overpowered shotguns. thats, my dream zombies, the cool loadout part with way way higher diffuculty, but also good ol normal zombies. like in bo
The limited starting weapons from ww2 and bo4 act very similarly to that.
ive been mad since bo4 when they had us select a specialist weapon instead of doing a quest mid match to unlock one. now every map i just have the same specialist and i dont have to do anything to get it. same thing with the field upgrades in cold war, i don't like being handed these powerful abilities in zombies.
I agree man great video ❤❤❤
Not all zombies games need to have a pistol as the starter pistol. It just needs to be fun and engaging to the player and the pistol doesnt have to be apart of it
But gameplay progression does matter, that's why I do like the limited starting weapons from ww2 and bo4. Gives a little more without taking away from what makes the game have its depth
@@CJSanta not all players like starting at the beginning with sticks shaped like pistols. People like going into the action without the annoyance of wasting time and other players stopping them from having fun. And depth is its own seperate thing boosted by other stuff
@@yousifaljanabi281 But the balance of the game can be thrown off because of Dominate Strategy
@CJSanta it is fun to be powerful, not when the enemy is weak
Imo double pack aats ruined simple maps like giant, natch, verruckt, shi no numa and kino, it's why I never double pack or use mega gobble gums on those maps because it makes it easier and unfun to me
Titanfall 2 = Carry 3 weapons. A main, always a side arm and a heavy to deal with Titans.
Just like everything innovative RESPAWN has done, no other game seems to copy them aside from copying out dated game play till there’s no choice but to copy them for trends.
Atleast add a mandatory handgun in PvE modes. Cause switching to a quick draw back up is always helpful.
Well said brother 🙏
loved this. Agreed with everything you said
So happy to see whenever I put some opinions out there that a lot more people feel the way I do 🙂
I like being able to level up my guns in zombie’s instead of going into the blender on multiplayer but I get your point
I think a legacy starting pistol type loadout would be ideal. There would be a wide variety of weapons you could start out with that each have different pros and cons but are objectively weaker than any wall weapon without pap.
I agree so much it hurts
I have never seen someone start WW2 with the Garand
Limited starting weapons should have worked so that they are the wall weapons in spawn
Super brave of you to go after gobble gum. I agree 100%
Yeah I've always thought they were bad for the game, at least the megas are.
Honestly I don’t mind cold war’s loadouts, as you can set the challenge for yourself. Want the game to be hard and challenging? Use the pistol or a sniper (more specifically the ZRG) want to just chill? Just spawn in with an AR or Sub. Want to be op from the start, just go shotgun/wonder weapon. (I myself use the Galil and AK74u due to them being fun to use)
I also understand why MWZ allows you to spawn in with whatever, due to its time limit.
The recent two zombies have a different kind of progression compared to the previous ones.
If I were to compare CW and MWZ to a different genre, it’d be like starting a new game on dead rising 2:otr, where you can immediately start your first playthrough of the story mode at level 50 if all you did was farm the environment glitch in the Food Court. But at the same time you could also just play the story mode at level 1 if you chose to do so.
Meanwhile the previous games would be more akin to dead rising, where you have to start the game off at level 1.
Or if you just want a tl:dr
New games have different progression systems and you also control what you spawn in with.
This comparison makes no sense because you can also start at level 50 in the first dead rising game if you grind before doing the quests. And as someone else said in this comment section, why should the player have to choose to nerf themselves? Besides, being forced to start with a crappy gun and becoming overpowered is more fun than choosing a crappy gun and becoming overpowered because it feels like you defied all odds as opposed to feeling like your doing some kind of challenge run. Although I guess that is subjective but regardless of what is or isn't fun, is it okay for a game with a dedicated following to practically swap genres and leave said following behind? This isn't a matter of a change in design philosophy or some small gameplay changes. It really is a different game altogether and we're forced to just suck it up.
@@pilotmender043 the difference is that in dead rising 1 you have to actually play the game in order to start off the game at level 50 which means having to learn the controls (similar to how in the older cods if you just went straight to the zombies mode you’d have to learn the controls) compared to dead rising 2 off the record, where you can just move to the food court do some jumps here and there to avoid being grabbed and do an exploit to get 1K pp in sandbox mode every time you pick up a bottle of vodka (which would essentially what cwz and mwz be)
As for the nerfing themselves reason. you don’t need to run meta constantly as it’s fucking boring (see: helldivers 2) If you want to have fun and just chill around you can choose something else. Most of the weapons are able to still keep up anyhow.
Even then. It’s perfectly fine for a game to switch genres with a dedicated following, since guess what, they’re a dedicated following and wouldn’t care if the genre changed one time as a simple test.
Tl:dr you actually have to play DR1 compared to DR2:OTR, no need to be boring as hell, it’s fine for a game with a dedicated following to change genre since those following would still be dedicated to following.
@@PeppinSpaghett. You’re comparing a game to a glitch, an unintended feature, so it’s still not a fair comparison. And the reason zombies had a dedicated following was because of the gameplay they left behind so to assume they would be okay with what is practically a whole different mode just shows how little you know about the zombies community. Vanguard flopped for a reason you know.
Yes there are the fans who are here for the story but even then the story has changed so much to appeal to so many people only to lose its original fan base each time. It was originally a cryptic nightmare with clues everywhere, but it swapped to a more cinematic and streamlined approach with multiverses and aliens, then it turned into a war plot and that is just Treyarch zombies. Each of these periods had their own dedicated fans who were disappointed in the huge shift to a whole different thing.
Yes personal preferences affect these things. You can’t say one is definitively better but to assume that your community would be willing to put up with something they aren’t interested in just because it has the series name in it is just a misunderstanding of what it is to have a dedicated fan base.
A real dedicated following will stick by the series in its worst moments but that not because they enjoy the new thing. It’s because they enjoy what was there and hope the original magic will come back.
@@pilotmender043 each community no matter what will always have different sub-communities.
Everyone hated vanguard because, guess what, it was an insult to ww2 in general historical nuts hated it because guess what, it wasn’t ww2 enough, the multiplayer community hated it because guess what, it had a (for the most part) bad multiplayer, the gun nuts hated it because guess what, the attachments weren’t good. It wasn’t just zombies itself being the downfall of vanguard, it was vanguard in its entirety.
Even then, in dr2otr you can still start your first story play through at level 50.
Still anyhow to keep things relatively civil, the new formula is what’s going to happen. The old games are still there to play at any time. (Have bought Bo3 myself 3 times and grinded each of them to at least prestige master)
At this point in time, there’s so many people who dipped after bo3 and started hating zombies afterwards, and instead of just either playing the old games or moving on from zombies in general due to it obviously not being for them anymore, they just regurgitate the same few talking points instead of giving constructive criticism, positivity and an actual personality from one another.
The surge of videos calling modern zombies bad and classic zombies good is actually making people say things like “hot take but I’d rather play Vanguard Zombies than play Bo3 zombies due to its good gunplay” or “have something interesting to say and be well versed on the topic, y’know. actually play the games and don’t just say old is better”
In the end there’s a reason as to why zombies is the way it is now (and still popular) compared to back then and why a random youtuber isn’t part of the dev team.
Tl:dr the amount of videos calling modern zombies bad without giving good constructive criticism is so large that it’s making people who loved the classic zombies move away from them.
@@PeppinSpaghett. People are giving constructive criticism on zombies. In fact this video is a great example of constructive criticism and yet you downplay it.
"Even then, in dr2otr you can still start your first story play through at level 50." That's what I was saying and yet you still said I was wrong. Way to contradict yourself.
I won't deny a lot of people fail to give thought out and helpful talking points, especially in the cod zombies community, but to say no one does and in the comments section of a particularly good critic video is just tone death.
Anyone else not use the mog and instead used the rk7 with knife before the mog got nerfed?
Guys we need to make this arrive to treyarch
Starting gun was meant to be kept as 'mustang and sally or c3000 b14tch' fuggin beast
Jimmy Zelinski is probably laughing his ass off at cod rn
This needs to be seen by activision and treyarch
I think thst allowing someone picking out between a couple similar-status starting pistols would be nice. Maybe only for visual change and stuff, like... The M1911 and the Mauser are the same gun, and they can both be packed into something useful, so maybe they could throw in a Luger, maybe a Makarov, so on and so forth... Similar damage and stats, but maybe i'm talking bulshit.
the starting pistols on cold war weren’t too bad, but i start with shotguns cause they do more damage. they make way less points tho 😢 i use the hauer
IW starting pistol was a Wonder Weapon just like the launcher in BO4.
Mustang and Sally, my beloveds are too dangerous for their own good. PHD is broken but so is Perka and shopping free, SMH, give me PHD in every map.
on some maps with phd gotta keep the m1911 cant go wrong with the mustang n sally
I agree with you, I understand the reasoning but I agree the build up is not fun, I will say upgrading the weapons is interesting but spawning in with an OP weapon off the rip is dumb, my opinion remove the weapon rarity’s and drop the zombies HP since it’s not including the rarity buff of weapons and spawn in with a pistol would make CW a lot better
Yes.
Been playing since BO1 and I really enjoyed cold wars system. Jump in and fly pass the most boring part of zombies imo, using you're favorite guns. I mean if you feel the need to meta in zombies then more power to you. For me personally, i play with what i find fun, not try harding all the time, thats just me tho.
Preach
I agree but I like both? Don't get me wrong, I physically need MWZ and outbreak to be GONE. But when it comes to classes I kinda liked it, it was new and unique but now it's becoming a staple and a bore.
I think for weapons we should return to a BO2 style, but modified. Like for example, we've had weapon customization in the past but you get it off the bat, so what if in BO2 style and, let's say an AK-47, default, but when you pap it it's a upgrade of default and then the second PAP you get the attachments? Maybe this wouldn't work but I liked the idea so I typed as I thought of it.
And reading it over I could have thought it through better but ya get the idea.
See I don't think having guns with attachments on them is a bad thing, but it should be done to make the guns more unique like the operator mods from bo4, and certainly not spawn in with them.
I feel it was fine at first in Cold War as a test but now they just add it in every zombies which is annoying
Solution just CHOOSE the starting pistal. 😂
Ask yourself this, how many players do you see in online matches starting with a pistol?
@@CJSanta Me 😅
but fr though no one does
Realize that this can all be solved with the modern Zombie games by literally spawning in with just a pistol of your choice!
That's the same argument of "don't like the gobblegums, don't try it"
But if you go into an online match, see how many others will only spawn with a pistol in Cold War, or only use classics in bo3.
Tbh I don’t think this is a big issue in the slightest and wouldn’t even be in my top 5 complaints about modern zombies tbh
1. The games give you multiple options for weapons, by increasing rarity of wall weapons as the match goes on, or having rare box guns or you have the option of sacrificing a significant sum of salvage to make your starting gun as good as it can be - the game gives you options
2. Even at max level, the bullet guns are still outclassed by the wonder weapons, especially the raygun
3. Progression is still a thing in CW as you’ve got the perks and equipment and stuff to get your hands on - with progression IMO taking much longer than treyarch maps as you’ll only get everything maxed out by round 25-30 even on the quick ends
4. some of the games which start with pistols have systems in place which break progression far more than CW onwards - such as the bank in BO2, Gobblegum in BO3, even elixirs in BO4 - I think it is more a game by game basis
Whilst yeah I agree that the MWZ systems were terrible as you could literally start the game with PAP weapons and perks, the starting pistol mattering point is redundant IMO as it depends on the game and the systems in place
we need Loadouts in the store instead of starting with them
Don’t. Just don’t.
Now lets look at mw3, where the guns for zombies are apeshit or OP as hell. I don't feel threatened, I don't feel on edge, I don't feel like I don't know if I can do Dark Aether or not because I know exactly what the fuck is going to happen every single match.
Fuck's the point at that stage? I might as well pick up Resident Evil and shit myself over the Regenerators again.
4:18 to me Cold War is the best game for zombies when it comes to camo grinding, because in games like bo3 or 4, you would have to play for fucking ever to get dark matter. Either don’t make a mastery camo, or make it easier to get all the guns, make more weapons show up on the walls. Because when the same 3 or 4 guns show up on the walls, your basically forced to box whore to get dark aether or whatever camo they made in zombies, if they make each map have unique wall weapons each time, then there would be incentive to play them all if you want the mastery camo, and then you can bring back limitations, I’m not trying to sit in one game for a decade straight cus RNG MYSTERY BOX WANTS TO NOT GIVE ME THE LAST AR I NEED TO GET DARK MATTER
Believe me, getting dark matter was annoying in bo4 but I'm glad I did if because I love the game.
Still, I don't think it's the most important aspect of it, especially because of how much spawning in with every weapon takes away from Cold War in any other situation
@@CJSanta then do both modes I guess cus I liked it tbh
*Everything I hate about Zombies as they've progressed*
•Nazi Zombies was replaced by CoD Zombies. - imagine playing a map in Stalingrad and your 4 worn out Nazi soldiers being swarmed by wavws of Soviet Zombies.
•The zombie lore was too deep and weird to understand.
•Objectives for gathering pieces around the map just distract too much. Except for getting a fuse for turning on the power, I mean the special items and weapons.
•The starting pistol as stated in the vid. My add on would be the starting pistol if they wanted to "buff" it should just let it be a normal Glock. Its more bullets and pack a punched makes it automatic.
•The futuristic gun themes in the Black ops games.
•The open world aspect to zombie maps is so bad. Theres no real direction. The warzone map but zombies. 🤦🏻♂️ its just so bad.
The problem is they complicated the mode to much, then went in the other direction and made it to easy!
i like the lore being cryptic and whacky, it allows the dev to make more out-there maps( i.e. anicent evil or zetsubo )
also future guns stink
If u were a zombies dev I would still have hope lol
👍
👌
Can I steal your video title and use it for a completely different game?
Of course! It ain't stealing if you ask permission 🙂
what game ?
@@deenut5582 siege or counter strike but probably siege since I know more
MEGA MAN MENTIONED 💯🔥
Favorite game? I like 4 and 9 the best 😁
@@CJSanta not sure if its a hot take but ive always liked 7. it has some flaws but the artsyle and the levels are so much fun. both 4 and 9 are solid choices tho, i always come back to 9 for a challenge!
@@jaydenrodriguez9892 at least you didn't say 8 😂
9 has the best music for sure! 🎶
@@CJSanta i couldnt even bare to finish 8… and dont get me started on mega man and bass 💀 and agreed i do my cardio to concrete man’s stage sometimes
0:56 debatable in WAW cus the spring field is probably worse
lol true 👀
Honestly as a long time zombies player since 2018, I really despise this change. It completely defeats the purpose of zombies having progression and being a SURVIVAL MODE! The whole thing about zombies being a horror/action mode is no longer there with all these new changes I’m not entirely a fan of. At least I’m not the only one who hates this.
2018, did you start with Black Ops 4 zombies? 👀
@@CJSanta Nope, it was actually IW funny enough lol
@Herbietendo Not too bad place to start 😁
@@CJSanta 👍
Point system in zombies sucks now
Honestly i disagree. I see how it changes the gameplay a lot but i dont think it changes it in a bad way. I see what youre saying but i personally think that starting with weaker guns of your choice helps with replayability in a good way.
It wouldn’t be that bad if it wasn’t the only weapon you’d be using the whole game
Of course it's a choice if they player wants to use weaker weapons or not, but often they don't.
@@CJSantabecause players aren't dumbasses no one's going to choose the weakest option unless they're going for a challenge you wouldn't pick up the Springfield and use it if you got it out the box you would still use your starting pistol correct