Framing and Siding with Green Lumber -- How does everything look after 8 months?
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- Опубликовано: 28 авг 2021
- It's been about 8.5 months since I finished my sawmill shed, and I wanted to revisit things and look at all the lumber after it's had time to dry out. We take a look at the framing lumber and talk about how to accommodate shrinkage with posts and beams. Then we look at the board and batten siding, talking about grain orientation and fastener strategies, and see how it behaved just like it's supposed to. You can build with green lumber if you take a few simple steps to ward off common problems.
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Finally a guy who knows what he's talking about.
Good job boss
I love the fact that you did a retrospective review. I really like your design and I will be copying much of it when I build my sawmill shed this fall. Thank you again for great work! 👍
Thank you SO much for creating this video. I learned a LOT from it.
What a brilliant video. Thank you so much for this articulate and informative explanation, the narration and camera work were impeccable.
That’s such a great job. Love the shed. Thank you for the tips. My parents and I are building a shed this spring, and I love that style. I’ll definitely send this to the boss. 🥰 Thanks again!
Fantastic job. Thanks for the tips on green lumber. I am in the process of building a 12 x 12 cabin and will be using yellow pine B and B siding.
It was great to find out the history and purpose of board & batten siding. I buy green lumber from my local sawmill and I’ve never known this.
Your video and commentary are excellent. I learned a lot about how to use green lumber correctly. I will be getting a ban saw mill next year and I plan to build a saw mill shed like yours. Thanks.
Love the advice about how to Install the boards with the growth rings "smiling" outwardly and only mailing the center rather than the edges. And I live the old traditional board and baton style siding. Super simple
Thanks for the update, still looks great!
Extremely nice shed, looks great and solid as can be. Thanks for sharing.
Beautiful work! 👏
Smart techniques to allow for shrinkage, thanks !
Looks great, job well done
Love your shed and your videos. Very informative and you explain in great descriptions. Inspired me to make something similar for my HM122. Just dug out the posts this weekend and setting the concrete tomorrow.
Beautiful !! Hats off to you !
Thank you for posting the video, very informative. The shed is also very well done
Thank you LJ. I learned a lot with this video. I will definitely use the board and batten method now.
Thank you. A lot of very useful information for a project I am about to start.
You have great design and carpenter skills. Clean cuts and tight fits. Lots of research and forethought.
Thanks for doing an update on how using the green lumber has worked for you. I just bought a sawmill and once I get it together I want to build a shed for it. I love the board and baton style. Thanks for the info on which way to place the boards. That is something I did not know. Thanks again.
Very informative. You are quite the craftsman, I learned a lot.
This was not even the video I was looking for, but DAMN, I learned something new!!
Well hey there! I enjoy your videos and have learned a lot. I like the saying smiles out I can remember that. I’m hoping to get my sawmill by the end of October maybe sooner. Hanks for sharing and God bless you and yours.
Excellent video. Wish I saw one like it years ago
I very much appreciate your video. Many thanks. The grain cupping I had not considered.
Good video. Very helpful. Thanks!
Thanks for sharing this. I just ordered a mill and will be scrambling as soon as the weather starts to warm up to get a sawmill shed and wood shed up. Your video helped and I like how you did yours.
Thanks so much!! I hadent known about nailing the siding only in the middle. Definitely gonna do that from now on.
that's exactly what I was trying to find out. I will be getting my 1 by 8's and 1 by 3's from the saw mill very soon. Thank you!
I always put deck boards down with the cup facing down. Kinda cool how you cupped the boards out. Makes perfect sense. tHanks for the video.
Im glad I watched this video, thank you!
I love it when a plan goes together! I really appreciate the follow-up video. I watched your build. It is a beautiful sawmill shed. I plan on doing something very similar someday.
"...comes together." - John Hannibal Smith
Did not know that about placing the board "smile out". One of the main reasons I didn't care for board and baton was because of the uneven warping. This opens up a whole new thought process going forward. Thanks for sharing
Thanks, it was what I was looking for.
Like anything worth doing.......do it right and you will have no regrets. Well done Jack.
That’s a really nice shed man
Dang, that looks amazing.
Great video man, thanks soo much!
Love it, thanks for the knowledge. There is so much info on RUclips
Good information.
Good video.
Brilliant video on wood motion and jointery. Subscribed.
Another great subject is wind bracing with Xs.
This video answered so many questions on a subject I’ve been thinking about for a while... absolute goldmine
Furthermore, thank you SO MUCH for not dragging it out for 1hr plus and getting straight to the point...
I hate those videos... I don’t need to know about your dog, or your preference of leather glove liner insert, or how the seat warmers in your spotless King Ranch have been on the fritz.
This video was super refreshing... most def liked and subscribed 🤙🤙🤙💥
Great looking shed! Goes to show building green can be done if certain guidelines are followed. Especially when most of the work is done before afternoon 🍻 begin.
Nicely said!
Good Review!
Interesting watching this video and how you changed your nail pattern to the edge so the batten covers the shrinking on the large shed video.
Thank you! Very good tips! :)
Fantastic !!
Looks good.
A slower air dry helps too, by not drying the wood fast it will stay straighter. Nice work, well thought out.
Very informative
Good tip. Smile out.
Thx for sharing
Nice job.
Looks good :)
nice sawmill shed
Thank you for your Video
Thank you
Terrific.
I do love the way you explain why it is important to screw yours planks on the right side. In french we say : "Toujours mettre le coeur au soleil" The center
of the tree should be on the top or toward the exposed side to the sun.
That's really nice. Would love to see the sawdust collection method.
I don't do anything special, just let it go on the ground and periodically shovel it out. Which reminds me, I need to do that soon...
will have to look into the smiling board theory. I was told it was opposite of the way you had your turned.
Some people remember it as "bark side down for a crown" or "bark side up for a cup". I think I've heard at least 2-3 different phrases for this, some easier to remember than others, but they all have the same result in the end.
Exactly what I was looking for about using green lumber.
Can I use what the yards call farm wood or slash wood?
Firstly, I like your video - thanks. A point of interest on the board "smile". Think of the contraction of the board as it dries fundamentally that's what dictates future movement. So let's assume the grain is straight down the board and linear. In your case a lot of those boards shown are flat sown adjacent to the heart but right at the heart you'd have a true rift sawn board and the growth rings would contract perpendicular to the long edge = no movement only linear contraction during the drying. As a mill owner you can choose to do rift or even quarter to gain better stability boards with increase waste... flat sawn as almost all is does require this understanding to effectively place lumber. You probably know all that and didn't want to waste time in your video ;) for the argumentative YT crowd then lol. Cheers,
Thank you great explanation. Is it possible to build new construction garage and second floor apartment in urban areas with permitting with new lumber? Maybe a common question. But, thank you for the info. Super video and teaching!
If building to code with permits, the lumber needs to be inspected, graded, and stamped. It can be done with rough-sawn lumber but is prohibitively complex and expensive to do with framing lumber when you might have hundreds or thousands of pieces going into a home. So you'd be better off buying standard lumber that is already inspected/graded (ironically, it is much lower quality than what I can produce on my sawmill). For a finite number of posts and beams it is feasible to use rough-sawn lumber in a build since a structural engineer can assess those.
Everything I read/see online about the cupping/smiling thing is the exact opposite of what I saw on the last video. It drives me nuts since I'm trying to learn lol
Ok, you owe me a lot of money now, because I can't NOT build this after seeing this video 😭
I really enjoyed learning about the smiling of the wood grain tip. I am interested in building and I was wondering what how you feel regarding non stamped rough cut wood building and your recommendations
Around here it can't be used for any structure requiring a permit unless an engineer signs off. That is feasible for a few posts or beams, but not for stick lumber. So everything I saw is either for farm structures that don't require a permit or is for non-structural use (siding, flooring, etc). It's too bad, since the 2x lumber I mill is far superior to what I can buy in a store.
Read your local building codes, most times you can use it to build structures on your property but if you sell boards to others to use in construction they will most likely need to be stamped
Good as new! Well done sir. She's a really handsome structure. Now could you come build one for us? : - D
Thanks for the tips! Did you add a weather coating of stain to this?
Nope, the wood was left bare and allowed to weather.
Awesome video and great looking shed! Thank you for the detail of tips for using green SYP. Where did you buy your black diamond gusset plates? Or are they DIY fabricated from sheeting?
Yes, those were made from some 1/8" diamond plate I had on hand (I bought a bunch of scrap sheets a few years back). To be honest, it's not the best choice because it's harder to cut and drill than plain sheet stock, but it's what I had on hand.
@@Lumber_Jack Thanks for the reply! I figured there were some labor hours if it was a diy application. They still look great and unique. The plates are fairly reasonable and I have no spare diamond plate sheets lol. Keep up the great work!
That shed isn't going anywhere. Nice attention to detail. Good to see no ground contact with the base of the siding as that would only lead to rot.
Thanks for sharing. Another question, how long are the rafters?
Approximately 12' (the metal panels are 12 footers).
I guess the issue with the thicker green lumber would be if 1 was going to insulate and vapour barrier. I do believe this causes mold to form in your walls but if you frame it and let it dry standing till it’s dry and one would be in good standing when it’s time to insulate.
This was a great video for me. I’m starting to build sheds and hopefully my camp this year. 🤞
For sure, I wouldn't want to insulate or encapsulate anything with green lumber until it dries. Sometimes it's a challenge to keep green lumber from getting moldy even when it's out in the open air with full ventilation.
@@Lumber_Jack good to know. I guess the best thing to do is test it’s moisture content before enclosing the lumber?
Yep, that would be good. I know my yellow pine drops to about 20% within 3-4 weeks if sawed and stacked in the winter, and gets below 20% in ~6 weeks. In summer it takes forever and becomes moldy, so I do most production in the winter months (plus more comfortable working conditions).
@@Lumber_Jack I too mill during the winter, spruce mostly and even at -30c I’m out there hauling logs or milling. I find that season better than fly season and super hot season. Fall is a great time for milling as well, but not so good for hauling just cause of the dirt that gets into the bark.
Thank you for sharing. Did you use one solid peice for your beam, or did you splice it?
Solid.
Im considering using green wood beams that will lay on top of a pier foundation then on top of that add floor joists and build a small house (20 x 24'). Only the beams will be green. Do you think this is doable? Id be nailing the floor joists to the green wood beams. I wonder how this would behave?
It's doable, just plan for the beams to shrink as they dry out and allow for that movement. You can estimate the shrinkage (generally 7-12% across the grain depending on species) and account for that. You'll want the beams to be able to settle onto the piers and then the upper framing will come along for the ride. That either means having slotted holes in your pier brackets and/or ovaled bolt holes in your beams. I do that with green beams and it always works out OK. As the beam shrinks it can keep settling back down on the base. Some other cautions:
1) green beams will be super heavy, so be sure you can lift and position them.
2) don't go longer than you need to with beams, since longer beams can potentially be less stable as they settle and exacerbate shrinkage issues. Better to use shorter beams suitable for the span and have joints over piers where the beams have freedom of movement. I would only span multiple piers with a single beam if there is a structural need to do so.
3) if fastening dried lumber to green lumber, remember the green lumber will shrink/move so the fasteners (type and pattern) need to be able to accommodate that or one/both of the wood members will potentially crack/split or pull/break the fasteners. If your floor framing can float over the beams that will avoid issues. You can either use brackets and fasteners that allow movement, or just fasten along one edge and give the beams time to dry out before you go back and fully attach the floor framing to the beams.
All of this advice is on the conservative side. Some people take none of these precautions and things work out OK or the issues are not a problem for them.
I am looking at the gusset Plates you used and am wondering if I should use something like these in my Pavilion build. I am using 6x6 Cedar Post and will use either 6x6 Pine or Oak for the 4 Beams that will be connected post. I have been looking for information on the best method to attach the beams to a post for the corners. any suggestion will be greatly appreciated
Thanks
There are so many methods that could be used. I like this one, but also check out my videos on the timber frame carport. For that, I notched out the posts and bolted the beams directly to the posts (which is my normal procedure for pole barn type structures).
Hi there, i just bought a house in WV, the lower front and 1 side needs some freshening up and i just contacted a Contractor and he suggested Hemlock board and batten, he said its best to install untreated/stained. I was thinking of .6 thick T1-11 but he mentioned this so i am doing some research before i make a decision, he said there is a saw mill in WV where he gets it from.
If the price is fair, that will look much nicer than T1-11 and should last longer too. Hemlock is pretty wood.
@@Lumber_Jack Thanks, i live in NC but the contractor is going over probably tomorrow to look and take some measurements then give me a price. I was talking with him about 20 minutes yesterday and he mentioned how long lasting Hemlock is and also impervious to insects it is, also mentioned NOT staining/treating it was the way to go. The finished product is pure rustic beauty so that's worth plenty.
Nice build. I noticed on your angle supports you used fasteners side by side. Is there no worry of this splitting as they dry?
I have not seen splitting in any lumber 1.5" and thicker so I don't take special precautions unless some type of settling is anticipated.
👍
How do you keep your pine boards from "blue staining"? Do you kiln dry them? I mill yellow pine here in alabama and I sticker them, place them under a shed and keep the rain off of them. But I still get blue stain.
I don't really know. I rarely see it here. I know it's due to a fungus in the sapwood but don't know what would affect it unless it's something already growing inside the tree that is out of your control. It's purely cosmetic, so I wouldn't worry too much. Some people like the look and will pay more for certain types of boards with blue stain.
I have seen other types of staining here, from pine beetles, but that is unrelated to the fungus blue stain as far as I know. I see plenty of mold/mildew in the humid summer months, which can be a pain to control. I haven't found a good solution for that.
Wow, nice! Did you treat or finish the wood with anything? It looks so good 8 months down the road.
It was put up green and not treated. Still looks nice on the inside 1.5 years later. The outside of the siding is starting to gray up a bit.
For your side girt 2x6s, how many nails did you put those? I’m considering using green lumber for girts on a metal stud building.
I normally use 2x4 for girts and they get 2-3 nails into each post. For skirts I normally use 2x6 or 2x8 and those will get 4 nails into each post.
I have heard that the kiln kills any bugs in the wood.Have any problems with bugs? As home siding I might be concerned with that.
How do you fasten batts around the corners? How do you position the boards? I can’t find an answer to this, and I’m looking EVERYWHERE!
Don't use battens on corners, make corner trim. Normally 1x4 or 1x6 boards are used for corners.
Could you also in addition to board and button, make a tongue and groove/ overlapping boards so they won't have any gaps and you can still fasten the battons to the tongue edge?
Probably wouldn't be as stable -- one of the keys to board & batten is that the batten is fastened directly to the structure (wall girts) and not the boards. This independent fastening method is what keeps the boards tight at the joint even as they shrink/move and even if they want to crown/cup. You'd lose that if the batten was attached to one of the boards.
That’s what I’m doing. T&g. I can live with gaps
Did you seal the wood with anything to keep it from warping? Mainly thinking of the large beams.
No sealer, and that probably won't affect stability of the wood in a noticeable way. If a large beam wants to warp, it's going to do it no matter what you put on the surface. There are some very powerful forces in the wood fibers that will win out regardless of other factors.
The main way to get stable beams is to carefully select the tree and make good cuts with the sawmill to keep the grain (pith) centered and symmetric. Then properly frame and brace the lumber in place with a good sound construction methods to enhance stability.
When framing with green lumber, I'd allow at least 6-8 months before applying any type of sealer. You don't want to inhibit the drying process while moisture needs to escape the green lumber.
So building a floor with greenwood would be terrible right?
Make the holes for the bolts on the plates bigger than needed for settling, If the plates are all tightened up tight, how will the beam settle?
As I mentioned in the video, I wallow out the holes in the beams when drilled and oversize holes in the plates. It allows plenty of slop for things to settle. The beams shrink in width and height, so plates that are tight with green lumber will be loose as the wood dries, and everything can settle as it needs.
@@Lumber_Jack so dont really tighten the bolts and plate hard when wet? Save the real torquing for when it all drys out?
@@AnotherCritic100 You can fully tighten when the lumber is green. Be sure to use lock washers so that tension is kept on the nuts and bolts while the lumber shrinks. Check back in 6-8 months after the lumber has shrunk and you'll be able to snug the nuts down further.
What was the plan you used for your saw shed? I need to make on too,is the plan for it somewhere to find?
Just made it up as I went along. It's a pretty standard pole barn type of structure which you can make in any dimension or configuration.
Did you treat the corner post before they went in the ground? If so what product did you use?
Corner posts were treated 4x6 left over from a previous project.
@@Lumber_Jack I love your setup! Way to go
What do you mean by smiling
How do you think it would turn out if Red Oak were used?
Red oak doesn't hold up well outdoors -- it will stain and rot very easily when exposed to rain, and insects love it. White oak would be a much better choice.
Is there a finish on your boards?
No finish.
Were the posts cut fresh or are they treated?
The corner posts are pressure treated 4x6. The back center post is rough sawn 6x6 mated to a treated 6x6 base in the ground.
@@Lumber_Jack i figured because of the greenish tint. Store bought? Or did you treat them
Where did you get the cover for your sawmill from?
$20 grill cover from Amazon. 72" size fits the HM122 very well.
@@Lumber_Jack thank you
What is length is the long beam?
Is it green wood? Thanks
Rear beams are 6x6" 12.5' span each. Was put up green. Front beams are double 2x12 LVL 25' span.
Thanks
How long would you wait to apply stain?
On average, probably 6-12 months from when the wood was milled green, but a lot of it depends on the local weather and humidity, as well as the species of wood. In a dry location, softwoods season very quick and within a couple months will take stain with good penetration. The other thing to consider is shrinkage of the wood. If you stain it too soon, the wood will keep shrinking and you'll see any un-stained gaps peeking through over time. To be totally safe, I'd wait 6-12 months.
Thank you for the response!
How thick did you cut your broad and batten.
7/8"
@@Lumber_Jack Thank you Sir