Fellow was building a new house in South central Missouri. He explained that he wanted hardwood floors. Head carpenter said there's a top quality hardwood mill nearby. Owner said he had found a place in California with top quality flooring. He said the cost is significantly higher but determined that he wanted the best. The construction schedule was messed up for a month or so but the flooring finally got there. The head carpenter cut the first strap, turned the board over and saw the logo for the mill nearby. It cost so much because they had to ship to California and back. The owner didn't argue with the head carpenter any more about anything.
Said so well guys! I have countless conversations explaining drying, checking, natural beauty with my sawmilling and slabs. I am sharing this!!! I love the beauty of knowing the story of a house or pieces you get. Great to see yall!
I was just going to say that!!! These fools talking crap about building a green timber frame house. Some of the OLDEST HOUSES ARE TIMBER FRAME from green trees hundreds of years ago, and the houses are still in better condition than EVERY 10 year old modular home! Keep up the great work guys! I cant wait to see the finished product!
I don't think kiln drying is required, but I DO think drying is required. When we built our place we allowed the milled wood to dry for almost a year before using it. Even then, the planks for the board and batton's still shrunk probably 1/4" per unit over the years. There will be shrinkage for sure, You just have to account for it, and move on. The boards we finished for our floors were installed much later, and were allowed to dry in our garage to four years, and another two weeks in the room they were to be used in.
Just throwing it out there I have recently started watching another guy on RUclips. He is building a log cabin with just hand tools which I had kind of originally thought that this channel was going to be. He is My Self Reliance and well worth a watch.
In Russia they have built huge wooden churches through centuries. They used to hammer the ends of the logs instead of oiling. Hammering with the hammer side of the ax polishes the end of timber like it was lacquered, it becomes smooth like glass.
Kiln dried lumber is stickered and run through the kiln which is both heat, moisture controlled and air flow controlled to help ensure all the sticks of lumber are as uniformly dried as possible. As a Forester involved with lumber companies, I've not seen a banded bundle approach for drying lumber.
20 years ago we built a couple 12×16 sheds and a 24×48 pole barn with green rough cut 2x's and 1x's and those buildings came out super straight and square. My opinion is that green lumber is great as long as you get it built quick before it starts to dry. When I say quick I mean ASAP! Before somebody leaves it in the sun, back of the truck, not stacked neatly etc... With the pole barn we actually watered the stack of wood on the ground it to keep it wet while building with it during the week it took. They remained super straight but then again no interior finishes, heat, vapor barriers etc.. to deal with which may be why they aged so well. They were built in the spring and painted on the outside in the fall. Still look great.
Glad you made this a topic. When younger we didn't have much and used full round green spruce and fir trees as studs. That building is still standing, and those studs are straight as the day they were set. We also used the same for tripods, and those green trees were very strong.
I built a timber frame in 1997 out of Douglas fere. After we moved in at night it would make small noises as it settled. The frame was coated with linseed oil before rasing the frame. We also panted the the frame with one coat of mat varnish after completion of the house. Results some minor checking and seepage of sap.
I have a cedar barn made in 1880, the outside of it must be compared to rock instead of wood. It's water resistant and still strong after 137 years of Canada weather.
I live in a half-timbered house in germany which was built green about 150 years ago. The house is slightly changing shape depending on the season because some beams are exposed to the weather. Luckily we have plenty of craftsmen who understand their trade and know how to build in such an environment. Living there for 30 years now, we had to straighten 2 doorframes, no other issues.
Jesse and Alyssa, have you considered getting a 250-500 gallon fuel tank and having your gas delivered? It is pretty common practice on farms and in rural areas. The fuel doesn't cost any more either in my experience due to the volume being purchased. You could probably find a used tank or set of tanks pretty cheap on a farm sale/auction. Some gas barrels are even on a stand so that they can be gravity fed instead of needing to be pumped.
Jesse, reading the comments here justifies the video you made about comments from watchers. Gotta love "armchair builders." That said, I thought it was the very best short lecture I've heard about green lumber, and I've been working with wood all my life. Haters just gotta hate. . . "blow it off" and keep up the great work.
I work in a sawmill and we kiln dry all our pine wood. if it is all stuck with one inch stickers the same way and it is all stacked in such a way, each and every time to ensure proper air flow while in the dry kilns. if it is done the right way, all the boards in these packs are dry to the same level. we use a 6 to 7 day drying schedule. packs are checked for moisture level during drying and at the end of their schedule. i would think the same would go for timbers as it does for 1" boards, only taking much longer to dry.
Hi from Ontario. Many thanks for speaking so beautifully about this subject. What a wealth of "hard to get" information you have put out there. You communicate so clearly.
It’s worth mentioning that the post and beam joints go together wet so they can dry together and it also tightens the peg joint. I’ve never pulled a straight peg out of an old beam!
A number of problems can result from the use of green lumber. Nail “pops” - as framing members dry and shrink, gaps are created between nailed together framing members, as well as between exterior or interior sheathing and framing members. Mold can begin to grow on green lumber before it is even used in construction. Airborne mold spores are found almost everywhere, and they can easily cause mold growth on wet wood surfaces. In exposed areas, green lumber can be difficult to paint or stain, sap within the wood oozes out and causes discoloration and gaps between members (such as fascias) can result. As it dries, wood shrinks considerably, and is prone to both “warp” and “check” (crack). Used in construction, problems may arise including warping the underlying structure and causing structural instability. Unlike lumber which has been dried at the mill, green lumber has not been treated with any substances which are designed to promote water and insect resistance. Green lumber is more subject to rot, and it can be viewed as a buffet by insects. More often than not, the use of green lumber for framing material comes from lack of knowledge by the end user. For buildings where the finished quality makes a difference, dry lumber is the only sensible choice.
Exactly. The facility that I work at was built in 1995 and during framing it was pouring down rain for 5 months, once it was dried in, the sheetrock was installed too soon, and lumber started to shrink and twist. There are literally 100's of nail pops here and walls that are not square. Dry kiln lumber is nice but if you dont get it put in fast and protect it, it will act like a sponge and then you have all kinds of issues.
Bryce William yeah ...Lol ok ...fella....hopefully in that nice HOT...area he continuously says he lives in doesn't reek havoc specifically when it comes to his walls...bwhahahaha
surprising how many people forget about all the old settler cabins that have lasted hundreds of years and the modern homes that have rot and only been around for a few decades
I work with kiln dried lumber for furniture. The wood is kiln dried, but, once it is taken out of the kiln and placed in a building for storage, it can absorb moisture from the air. This is why we store our lumber inside where we can keep it dry er. Our purpose is to not have it crack or warp.
This is so interesting! It is amazing to see a video which is informative. So many promise to show you something, but then you realize they have never done this before and they know nothing.
The majority of my family is clustered in very rural south central Kentucky, to say the least most was in the lower middle class, no money for store bought lumber. My grandparents lived in what might today be called a timber frame except there were no, or very few large pieces to the frames. Having a large circular saw blade on a wooden frame which ran off a belt attached to a tractor's side PTO was common piece of machinery everyone had which was used to make lumber for everything, it just couldn't deal with large pieces, nor could they move them if it did. Homes, barns, etc. were all made from this using mostly hickory and oak which is dominate in their forest. The lumber was used rough sawed and wet, no time for planing except for the decorative pieces, wallpaper or plaster, or both was used on interior walls, and certainly no time for drying the wood. There are many homes and barns in the area which are well over a hundred years old, and many are still very desirable to own.
Same here. I have always heard that the trees for timber frame are cut in the snow before the sap rises in the spring and left to dry in the forest. The visit you had to your source of cut trees was an eye opener. I thought he was providing you with logs from last year's cut not really fresh timber. The only ugly thing about wet wood is the sap is hard on blades, but you now know that. Whatever works for you.
Yes people have been using green timber framing for thousands of years...and yes, every timber framed structure I have ever been in is twisted and out of square. Jesse would make a great used car salesman. Being correct never gets in his way when he is talking.
Green wood may shrink but will not necessarily twist or warp. Twist and warp are caused by the grain and stresses in the log not the drying process. Note how much kiln dried lumber is twisted or warped. If a log has stress or tension wood its lumber will warp or twist no matter how it was dried. One exception is if a green board dries on one side faster than the other side it will cup or warp toward the drier side. Moisture content of wood is dependent on the humidity in the air. Kiln dried wood will absorb moisture sitting in a humid lumber yard then dry out after being built into a warm house. Also in a humid summer wood absorbs moisture then dries in the heating season.
I'm from Germany and here are a lot of timber frames. It's called Fachwerkhaus and regardless of them not being build anymore there are a lot around. Some I know date back to the 15 and 16 hundreds, but I'm sure there are much older ones around here. they were build, like you said, out of wet lumber because people needed the housing. While I think the fact that they still stand today speaks for itself there are a few problems. the biggest I know of are wood worms (because the wood isn't protected against them very good) and moisture (some of the timbers are sitting directly on the ground so the water from the ground sucks up and the wood begins to rod) There are in fact no big warps or anything in the wood besides the natural 'not straightness'. Rich people had the money to afford straight timbers so the house looks nice and simetrical, the poor people could just afford the cheap and crooked wood, so the house doesn't look that simetrical. One interesting thing some people don't know about is that the walls (the space between the timbers in the timber frame) was often filled with a little bit of straw to give strength and was than filled up with (cow) dung
I grew up in a wood framed building in germany build in 1640 (according to the writing in one of the beams). It is made with wood joints and works fine.
Here in the Appalachian mountains we have log houses 200+ years old they was built green and when the dry the notches tighten. Nothing like ol Virginia! Well southwest Virginia anyway!!!
Jessie! Your face when bugaboo interrupted you was priceless You also seemed way more calm once you gave in and pet bugaboo. He knew you needed his chill inducing magic touch. Hilarious
No one is asking about Kiln dried timbers. The question is building with green lumber. When a person builds a log home they don't fall the logs. Take them to a kiln then truck them thousands of miles because they are dry. They fall the logs and let them sit. Not in a kiln as you keep saying but in the elements. Just like the way you stacked your lumber with spacers. To allow natural air flow to naturally dry the lumber. 500 years ago people didn't fall , mill and timber frame their homes all in one day or week. They fell the tress, pealed the bark and then the logs were left to dry out side until such time they could be used as timbers. They never milled timbers and then let then dry that would be stupid. They would warp and bend. Wood is used in boats. Why because it expands and contracts. You can watch it swell in the water to seal a wooden haul. You can watch it shrink when it is out of the water. Wood warps. So the question still remains why not fall the trees and wait for the logs to be dry in a year? Forget the kiln part no one cares about that.
Hi, and bugaboo steals the show! But on a more serious note, I'm in England, old houses were built with green oak because when it drys it's hard and near impossible to work with.
That was jam full of useful information. Thank you very much. wouldn't border about the haters. They were always around, and unfortunately will be around for reasons unknown. Next I'm building my home, and the initial design was "standard" 2x4 framing. I was very inspired by various Japanese joinery videos, and felt that it is simply more than just putting two pieces of wood together. So i redesigned the whole house from bottom to the top, and it will be made post & beam. Then the commercialism of the market here ( Bulgaria, Europe) struck with the Inevitable Inevitability - i can't get beams anywhere to the specs i need, because EVERYTHING is commercialized and way over the budget. So now with this piece of information, which is just as naturally logical as it is, I did the math and it came out it will be much cheaper and effective to saw my own logs. AS Green as possible, and without nails for sure. It's too long to explain it, here. Anyway. THANK YOU for this information. The knowledge is coming in the correct form and shape, at the correct time. :)
Houses used to be drafty and not have much (if any) insulation. This meant that green lumber would dry out on the house. Using green lumber in a modern 'tight' house is a good way to start mold.
Mac - Thanks for being one of those who remember back in the good old days. Everything I said here is 100% true. I can't believe how many people attacked Me. They either were too young to know how it was, or they weren't involved in Home construction or Building Materials. Can't believe how they attack , even if they don't know what they are talking about. Prior to 1975, most homes didn't even have insulated windows. Thanks for knowing what You are talking about.
Bert Davis You speak Factually...Non-Dried timber has massive problems, they warp just like kiln dried ones. I find it crazy that he's more bothered by his Chisels and ease of use (something you should sharpen often and replace periodically) and making his life easy. I have an Oak Framed building, the guys who built it used traditional Joint and Oak peg. They used French Green Oak that is kiln dried, obviously in its 1st few years it still moved slightly and shrank a few percent (3-4%l) but is still dimensionally stable and actually cleverly designed so where the glazing meets the shrinking is held in check in multiple dimensions. See the cross section model they gave me. drive.google.com/file/d/1mkAfulJuHc-900InLVJ_pacc8gCPvi9B/view?usp=drivesdk The rubber gaskets allow the glazing units to move within the frame. If it had not been Kiln dried it would have moved 20% not 3-4%... My view...If you're using softwood on a Timber frame building for structural elements you are a fool (Except if you are using Glue-Laminate composite beams).
a white elephant you mean Jesse, when a white elephant was born it was so revered that it was never allowed to work to pay for its keep and so the only thing you could do was gift it to another to get rid of the expense of its up keep hence the term a white elephant gift
Imagine if you went to your local lumberyard and asked for a 8" x 15" x 20' beam. The only thing that would come close would be a LVL product that needed to be custom ordered. No dimensional lumber is exact. I have really enjoyed your videos. Keep Safe!!
After nearly 40 years in the sawmill industry I know that drying of lumber is an art and science. This talk is an example of a little knowledge being a dangerous thing.
So the you tube videos of workers at kilns shoving very large loads of strapped lumber into kilns is faked. That nothing he said was close in any way. If you don’t like the videos go else where. Do I believe every single he says, no but he and she are trying to make their dream a reality. What have you all done today to improve your selves.
joe watts exactly. They've mentioned a few times that they are not experts, yet he makes these videos acting like an expert, passing on false information. Jesse, if you don't know for SURE what you are talking about, don't pretend to know
Thanks for taking the time to explain your choice of materials and the methodology and sciences behind the construction of your home. These is so much history and experience behind the methods you are using that our instant cultures are oblivious to. Timber being a living material will act and react to its environmental conditions. At best, we are applying construction methods that have measured outcomes, but timber will sometimes surprise and bewilder even the most seasoned builder. On the explanation pertaining to radiant heating, I think you will find that you can used wood heating without issue as long as you maintain a stable humidity and not dry out your structure too quickly. You should also plan to oil your frame over the years to help age it to its environment. Good video.
I don’t know if y’all get through all the comments on here but if you see this one, I’d love to see a saw mill series explained in this way. You’re very good at staying calm and delivering info in an easily digestible way. And you’ve recently gone from newb to pro so all that info is fresh in your head.
Between Facebook and You Tube I feel that I'm in a special J&A PL4L universe. I love these why we did (are doing) videos because they add to the whole flavour that this is not an easy project but life challenging and changing. Keep up the good work. Ignore the negativity.
When it comes to kiln dried construction lumber, they call 19% moisture content 'dry'. In timber frame construction, in order to reduce the twisting, warpage, cracking of the timber, it is best to 'box the heart wood' when the timber is cut. This way the drying process will be more even on all sides of the timber.
The old-timers back in Europe did cut wood only at a specific time of the year and they also watched the phase of the moon , before they would cut wood for construction. When building a structure , they used a certain allowance for shrinking and so on . Working with nature and obey the rules .
If you put "Bullshit " on a Field , and you do it at the right moon phase , it will go in the ground real quick , and if you do it at the wrong time , the shit will lay around for the longest time . Like it or not , I have witnessed this for to many years ,it never fails .
Good explanation. The pegs basically form an interference fit as the timbers dry. This same teqnique is used in machining only it's done with a difference of heat rather than moisture. For furniture and cabnetry, yes, you want dryer wood, but it's still better to do it slowly as far as less waste when you shave the boards flat and parallel.
Love yalls videos Have built all our family's houses except mine Amazing y'all can still spend time together after all these months doing this Isn't something most people can do
I tore down a house made with green wood. It was the curviest wood in the attic I have ever seen; bow up, down side, twist, and that was just one board. Builds nice, hammers nice, just never let it dry.
Wow! Awesome video. You shared some good information. Your videos are entertaining and enlightening...plus addictive. I've been watching for months. Keep up the good work. Nice video editing skills as well Alyssa!
It's only in the last 100 years that we depleted the stock of old growth timber, with it's densely packed growth rings, which is stable even after it's just been milled. Using the wood available, which is fast growth, wide growth ring timber, the issue of drying stability rears it's ugly head.
I remember reading about England being densely forested but as the country expanded, they needed tons of wood to build their ships, merchant and Navy. This pretty much denuded the hillsides, which prompted importing wood from Europe.
tom7601 They used oak to build there navy. But yes, They tok Down almost every oak tree, and Then They had to wait 150 years to build another navy. 😂 But They came here to Denmark and stole our ships and our oak trees. 😢
yes. i've been in and around beam built structures all my life. they can last forever. i find in every structure, the beams are of varied dimention, even within a single beam, and every building has curved, warped and/or twisted wood in them due to drying after construction. all that said, why are you spending so much effort milling perfectly straight, spot on material, knowing it will change dimension so much later?
You have been able to air dry timber since time began, you just need to be patient. Also standardized timber is something that we have reinvented, the Romans had it nailed a couple thousand years ago.
You comment about "massive misunderstanding", you don't know anything about kiln drying. I am not saying you should kiln dry post and beam, I am only saying you totally misunderstand kiln drying. My grandfather did it, my father did it and I did it, and you are wrong. If anything you said is actually being done they are selling to Home Depot and Lowes not to anyone that knows lumber. They don't dry in "big piles" they dry with very accurate tables to control temp and humidity in the kiln during drying with EVERY type of wood having its own schedule for drying. So yes go ahead and build green, it is fine for post and beam but don't get your facts straight before you try to educate the educated with misinformation. Oh, btw, lumber is cut oversize for two reasons, first it does shrink when it dries and they need to plane it to get rid of the saw marks, which you are having trouble with because you are cutting to exact dimensions and leave no room to plane them. One last point, rain and kiln dry are two different animals. Remember the human body is 98% water but you don't gain weight when you take a shower. The kiln drying removes the moisture SLOWLY from the cells not drying rain drops. Good luck you are learning but keep learning, you are not a teacher yet.
Know nothing about drying wood but the wood at home depot and lows is wet to the point of you better get it nailed together or it will warp curl (thats after you pick through the pile to find the one out of three that is usable) and be useless if it sit's in the sun just a few days even if you lay it down flat. There making mistakes but look at the project and the drive they show impressive
I have a lot of respect for what they have done, and I wish them well. That is also why I said the info must have come from someone that sells to Home Depot because the info is all wrong as far as Kiln Dried wood. When we dried lumber there were 13 stickers on every row of a 16ft long pile and dried by testing moisture content every day, not a bundle banded together for a couple hours. I am NOT saying they should dry 12X15 beams !!!! I also mean no insult that they don't know, I didn't know until I learned. I am just saying he shouldn't be teaching people how to dry lumber when he does not know how. I would not even consider teaching him how to build a timber frame house, even though I built my own house, I do not know anything about building a timber frame. Also if you look at the wood at the 'giant dealers" you will see "Whitewood", there is no such thing. It is a mixture of Fir, spruce, pine and even poplar. You shouldn't build with pine it is too soft and won't hold a nail, and poplar is a hardwood just like maple...a lot softer than maple but still a hardwood and is not meant for studs.
Peabody, while this may not be helpful to most, poplar is technically a misnomer, as the "tulip tree" in which you are referring to is not actually in the Poplar family. And most box store lumber is "Southern Yellow Pine" as described on the sticker, but you are correct that it can vary, so be aware of that. It's best if you can get one that names the species, then compare with your eyes so you know it's consistent.
Actually lows and home depot in this area labels there soaking wet warped wood full of knots Doug Fir . They also carry a white (there description) wood that is softer has less knots (Warps worse when its dries) but is not recommended for structural applications. I believe quality and even the types of wood available in Box stores varies due to the area and availability. Also box stores are notorious for hammering there suppliers on price.
Just finished watching your last upload an was about to go to bed an seen the notification now I’m up for another half hour lol but worth it I love seeing updates
When dealing with shrinkage, it is important to note that the length of the beam will only shrink by 0.1-0.2%, but the diameter of a log will shrink 3-5%, that is why shrinkage in a log home is a serious matter to be considered in the design, because the logs are stacked one upon another. Not so with post and beam construction. The mortise and tenon used on post and beam construction will withstand any twisting as the wood dries slowly.
Ole Anderson I am told by local experts and those on other forums that the TF shrinking process makes the frame stronger over time. Cracks/noises over that same time are part of the game. Call it part of the charm.
Sure is cool to follow your videos and also to read the comments of all "the experts" that aren't actually doing what you're doing yet have the innate skills to criticize your efforts. Easy to criticize when you have nothing whatsoever invested into it.
Of course one can build with green timbers and in your case their wasn't other options. But you will have problems with splitting and cracking. But that is OK. It gives the house character.
It's called a "white elephant" per Wikipedia: " A white elephant is a possession which its owner cannot dispose of and whose cost, particularly that of maintenance, is out of proportion to its usefulness. In modern usage, it is an object, building project, scheme, business venture, facility, etc., considered expensive but without use or value." xoxo from Arizona.
There are several who like to diatribe against Jesse because you disagree with what he has to say, and because you claim a level of expertise, he must be a "moron," or and "idiot," or "a waste of time." Here's my take on that. Jesse has never struck me as someone who just talks of the top of his head while pretending to know what he's talking about. I have had some of the same questions regarding green wood. It is fairly evident that he has done a fair amount of reading and consulting with experts. You can certainly disagree with him, but until your view is universally recognized as the only authoritative view, please keep your insults for personal use at family reunions. That said, I think one has to go back further than 100 years or so to get away from importing building materials as a common practice. I live in Michigan, and large areas of the lower peninsula was lumbered heavily for building in the Midwest.
Jessie, you are doing great! No one does timber framing with dry dimensional lumber. Another thing you will experience is popping as the frame dries. Great video.
I thumbed up, but I disagree, there are companies that build with both...The kiln dried is usually used in prefabricated timber frames, ...and all the joinery is cut and notched with computers driven components.
Totally agree with you. It's funny how some people can't see beyond modern ways of doing things, because that's all they know. Your frame is going to last a hell of a lot longer than a stick built house. Modern construction methods are great for speed and making profit but don't stand the test of time, and aren't necessarily that eco friendly due to all the processing.
Interesting. Old timers used to cut lumber and store it vertically to air dry. Old growth timber and high line timber with tight grain woods are more stable by means of warping. Also, tight knot and tight grain woods shrink less. Putting the protective coating on the ends of the logs and board ends is good. In my experience in the timber and lumber industry reflects stickering when kiln drying. What is funny about kiln drying is they dry to (if I recall correctly) around 7% but when the lumber goes to a damp climate it gains moisture before the builder ever gets the board. The second and third growth materials you get are warped even coming off the mill green, especially butt cuts from trees growing on a side hill. Air drying is better in my opinion. Looking great, love what you guys are doing!
Love your blog...build..... story.....!!! Awesome. As a child, my family (Dad, Mom, Lil sister and I built our own home. With help of others of course. It is amazing that you both work so hard to fulfil your dream together. I know the depths of your struggle. Keep up the goos work. I am hooked waiting as long as it takes to see the finished product. Ours took 12yrs so hopefully not that long for you.
I love your videos, I really appreciate the amount of time and effort you put into sharing your learning experience and the massive amount of expertise you've gained. Although my project is NOTHING like the scale of yours, everything you are sharing will be useful to me in my woodland in Wales in Britain.
Great Video! Well said and thank you for sharing your research and knowledge! The information is invaluable and anyone that is interested in Timber Framing will come away with some very valuable input, if they watch and take it to heart! Thank you so very much for sharing! Timber Framing is not for the faint of heart! And also not for the 'gotta be done now' folks. It is a labor of love and endurance! God Bless!
A friend of mind, who owns a woodmizer LT40 super, took my wife and me too show several cabins built with green lumber.These cabins and one house was built with green lumber straight off the mill. Some of these has stood for a few years and the only bad 4x4 was one pouch post that twisted a little.These was stick built.Yes it can be done if you know how and if you read books on timber framing you will find most timber framers work with green wood because it is easier to do your joints.
a little know trick industrial launderers use : add some rock salt to your work clothes. it'll not only soften those Carharts a little, it will get a lot of the ground in soil. think about "butchers/mechanics/and the like, the company's rent clothes, and they get them CLEAN. great holidays!
In Australia before farmed pine houses were made from natural growth hardwood. the hardwood was normally milled at a local mill to where the house was built and milled to order. The house frames were constructed whilst the timber was still green with sap running out of it. Once the frame was up and straitened the builders would walk away from that house and go and put up another or finish off the previous one they framed, coming back a few months latter to finish off.
Thanks for the ELI5. Don’t be afraid to assume you have some real newbs here who are genuinely interested in learning more than what you’d find on and old style TV show. 👍🏼👩🏼🌾👨🌾
You can build with anything, whether you should or not is entirely a different question. Green will have the greatest change over seasoned though. Cheers to you both.
Hi Buggaboo, yes, that makes sense, yes you prefer chicken to duck, love prawns but never get them, and all this talk about green wet dry lumber timber is stopping my back scratches and you know I need attention, so point the camera at me more often, I have fans too you know.
I did not intend any criticism of Jesse, it is very obvious from watching videoes on RUclips that no two countries do anything the same way.Maybe the fundementals are common, a mortise and tenon is after all one piece of wood fixed to another by scooping out a hole and pushing the other piece in. Its how they are cut and deployed where the differences arise and as long as they perform as required then what does it matter.I think these two are quite amazing, doing a bit of DIY is one thing but building a house is astounding
love your work you guys am and have followed your program since you started this has to be the first time i have ever seen an owner builder upstaged by a beautiful bengal well done mike australia
You can build with green and it will dry, reduce in size and split and twist but still be acceptable... or you can dry and build with that. Also, if you are using pine/spruce then the twisting can be managed by the frame. With oak (I am in the UK) then a drying and twisting oak member can really move all the other timbers. I dont see the need for a debate. Pays your money, takes your choice.
I live in a house build in 1612, it's got huge beams everywhere, so does the local castle build in 11th century just a few miles from me and a church build in 15th century, the beams were all untreated when placed and still going strong today many hundreds of years later.
ThatDutchguy I know that your tale is true...and over many parts of Europe and England it is the same. Here in the USA, there are many 'old' houses 100 years old...and quite a few 'very old' houses 200. There are a few 'ancient' buildings 300 years old here...but it seems that you have to add 500 years to those numbers for Europe, Skandinavia, and England. I feel that, if I were to visit, the 'tour' would lose me somewhere as I laid my hand on a beam and wondered how many people through the ages touched that very bit of wood, wondering what they were doing or thinking at the time...absorbing the deep history you have all around you.
Bluswede We in Europe and in my country start calling a building old only passed 400 years, we've got Roman barracks still standing here, that's more then 2000 years old and ancient is old Germanic stuff, which we have aswell older then the Roman building by thousands of years. In my city we've got building from 800 to the year 1000, but an old well and bridge with the remains of a older house are dated to 500 AD, so 1612 is young compared to that, something a 100 to 300 years for us,....is like yesterday.
Fellow was building a new house in South central Missouri. He explained that he wanted hardwood floors. Head carpenter said there's a top quality hardwood mill nearby. Owner said he had found a place in California with top quality flooring. He said the cost is significantly higher but determined that he wanted the best. The construction schedule was messed up for a month or so but the flooring finally got there. The head carpenter cut the first strap, turned the board over and saw the logo for the mill nearby. It cost so much because they had to ship to California and back. The owner didn't argue with the head carpenter any more about anything.
I bet that head carpenter was you, wasn't it.
As long as they pay, they can be as dumb as they please, huh?
Said so well guys! I have countless conversations explaining drying, checking, natural beauty with my sawmilling and slabs. I am sharing this!!! I love the beauty of knowing the story of a house or pieces you get. Great to see yall!
I was just going to say that!!! These fools talking crap about building a green timber frame house. Some of the OLDEST HOUSES ARE TIMBER FRAME from green trees hundreds of years ago, and the houses are still in better condition than EVERY 10 year old modular home! Keep up the great work guys! I cant wait to see the finished product!
I don't think kiln drying is required, but I DO think drying is required.
When we built our place we allowed the milled wood to dry for almost a year before using it. Even then, the planks for the board and batton's still shrunk probably 1/4" per unit over the years. There will be shrinkage for sure, You just have to account for it, and move on.
The boards we finished for our floors were installed much later, and were allowed to dry in our garage to four years, and another two weeks in the room they were to be used in.
Just throwing it out there I have recently started watching another guy on RUclips. He is building a log cabin with just hand tools which I had kind of originally thought that this channel was going to be. He is My Self Reliance and well worth a watch.
Rapids36 I too watch that guy. Fantastic videos
SR respects his audience and is about 1000 times wiser through self examination. Jessie wants ice cream and to be paid attention to. He is soft.
Check out SV Seeker the boat the internet built. Stark contrast. Jessie can’t form a team. Why is that?
But yet here you are, day in and day out, instead of spending time with your team. Why is that?
Common_sense_helps Because I retired from years of successful team projects, early I might add.
In Russia they have built huge wooden churches through centuries. They used to hammer the ends of the logs instead of oiling. Hammering with the hammer side of the ax polishes the end of timber like it was lacquered, it becomes smooth like glass.
Kiln dried lumber is stickered and run through the kiln which is both heat, moisture controlled and air flow controlled to help ensure all the sticks of lumber are as uniformly dried as possible. As a Forester involved with lumber companies, I've not seen a banded bundle approach for drying lumber.
20 years ago we built a couple 12×16 sheds and a 24×48 pole barn with green rough cut 2x's and 1x's and those buildings came out super straight and square. My opinion is that green lumber is great as long as you get it built quick before it starts to dry. When I say quick I mean ASAP! Before somebody leaves it in the sun, back of the truck, not stacked neatly etc... With the pole barn we actually watered the stack of wood on the ground it to keep it wet while building with it during the week it took. They remained super straight but then again no interior finishes, heat, vapor barriers etc.. to deal with which may be why they aged so well. They were built in the spring and painted on the outside in the fall. Still look great.
Glad you made this a topic. When younger we didn't have much and used full round green spruce and fir trees as studs. That building is still standing, and those studs are straight as the day they were set. We also used the same for tripods, and those green trees were very strong.
I built a timber frame in 1997 out of Douglas fere. After we moved in at night it would make small noises as it settled. The frame was coated with linseed oil before rasing the frame. We also panted the the frame with one coat of mat varnish after completion of the house. Results some minor checking and seepage of sap.
I have a cedar barn made in 1880, the outside of it must be compared to rock instead of wood. It's water resistant and still strong after 137 years of Canada weather.
I live in a half-timbered house in germany which was built green about 150 years ago. The house is slightly changing shape depending on the season because some beams are exposed to the weather. Luckily we have plenty of craftsmen who understand their trade and know how to build in such an environment. Living there for 30 years now, we had to straighten 2 doorframes, no other issues.
Jesse and Alyssa, have you considered getting a 250-500 gallon fuel tank and having your gas delivered? It is pretty common practice on farms and in rural areas. The fuel doesn't cost any more either in my experience due to the volume being purchased. You could probably find a used tank or set of tanks pretty cheap on a farm sale/auction. Some gas barrels are even on a stand so that they can be gravity fed instead of needing to be pumped.
Jesse, reading the comments here justifies the video you made about comments from watchers. Gotta love "armchair builders." That said, I thought it was the very best short lecture I've heard about green lumber, and I've been working with wood all my life. Haters just gotta hate. . . "blow it off" and keep up the great work.
I work in a sawmill and we kiln dry all our pine wood. if it is all stuck with one inch stickers the same way and it is all stacked in such a way, each and every time to ensure proper air flow while in the dry kilns. if it is done the right way, all the boards in these packs are dry to the same level. we use a 6 to 7 day drying schedule. packs are checked for moisture level during drying and at the end of their schedule. i would think the same would go for timbers as it does for 1" boards, only taking much longer to dry.
It is in every certified lumberyard I've ever been at.
Hi from Ontario. Many thanks for speaking so beautifully about this subject. What a wealth of "hard to get" information you have put out there. You communicate so clearly.
It’s worth mentioning that the post and beam joints go together wet so they can dry together and it also tightens the peg joint. I’ve never pulled a straight peg out of an old beam!
A number of problems can result from the use of green lumber. Nail “pops” - as framing members dry and shrink, gaps are created between nailed together framing members, as well as between exterior or interior sheathing and framing members. Mold can begin to grow on green lumber before it is even used in construction. Airborne mold spores are found almost everywhere, and they can easily cause mold growth on wet wood surfaces.
In exposed areas, green lumber can be difficult to paint or stain, sap within the wood oozes out and causes discoloration and gaps between members (such as fascias) can result.
As it dries, wood shrinks considerably, and is prone to both “warp” and “check” (crack). Used in construction, problems may arise including warping the underlying structure and causing structural instability. Unlike lumber which has been dried at the mill, green lumber has not been treated with any substances which are designed to promote water and insect resistance. Green lumber is more subject to rot, and it can be viewed as a buffet by insects.
More often than not, the use of green lumber for framing material comes from lack of knowledge by the end user. For buildings where the finished quality makes a difference, dry lumber is the only sensible choice.
Exactly. The facility that I work at was built in 1995 and during framing it was pouring down rain for 5 months, once it was dried in, the sheetrock was installed too soon, and lumber started to shrink and twist. There are literally 100's of nail pops here and walls that are not square. Dry kiln lumber is nice but if you dont get it put in fast and protect it, it will act like a sponge and then you have all kinds of issues.
Bryce William yeah ...Lol ok ...fella....hopefully in that nice HOT...area he continuously says he lives in doesn't reek havoc specifically when it comes to his walls...bwhahahaha
The look on Jesses face when Bugaboo so kindly interrupted him is a joy to watch
The cat overlord demands attention!
surprising how many people forget about all the old settler cabins that have lasted hundreds of years and the modern homes that have rot and only been around for a few decades
I work with kiln dried lumber for furniture. The wood is kiln dried, but, once it is taken out of the kiln and placed in a building for storage, it can absorb moisture from the air. This is why we store our lumber inside where we can keep it dry er. Our purpose is to not have it crack or warp.
Headly Lemar EMC!
This is so interesting! It is amazing to see a video which is informative. So many promise to show you something, but then you realize they have never done this before and they know nothing.
The majority of my family is clustered in very rural south central Kentucky, to say the least most was in the lower middle class, no money for store bought lumber. My grandparents lived in what might today be called a timber frame except there were no, or very few large pieces to the frames. Having a large circular saw blade on a wooden frame which ran off a belt attached to a tractor's side PTO was common piece of machinery everyone had which was used to make lumber for everything, it just couldn't deal with large pieces, nor could they move them if it did. Homes, barns, etc. were all made from this using mostly hickory and oak which is dominate in their forest. The lumber was used rough sawed and wet, no time for planing except for the decorative pieces, wallpaper or plaster, or both was used on interior walls, and certainly no time for drying the wood. There are many homes and barns in the area which are well over a hundred years old, and many are still very desirable to own.
FYI since you were searching for the primer and glue if you tape the Two bottles together you will never lose one.
And now I know. Thanks Professor, you rattled that off like you really know your stuff.
in québec we cutting trees in the winter, never in the summer .that make a big difference , wood cracking ,dry lumber ,ect ,ect
Same here. I have always heard that the trees for timber frame are cut in the snow before the sap rises in the spring and left to dry in the forest. The visit you had to your source of cut trees was an eye opener. I thought he was providing you with logs from last year's cut not really fresh timber. The only ugly thing about wet wood is the sap is hard on blades, but you now know that. Whatever works for you.
Yes people have been using green timber framing for thousands of years...and yes, every timber framed structure I have ever been in is twisted and out of square. Jesse would make a great used car salesman. Being correct never gets in his way when he is talking.
AndTheCorrectAnswerIs spot on! Good grief he went on forever
Green wood may shrink but will not necessarily twist or warp. Twist and warp are caused by the grain and stresses in the log not the drying process. Note how much kiln dried lumber is twisted or warped. If a log has stress or tension wood its lumber will warp or twist no matter how it was dried. One exception is if a green board dries on one side faster than the other side it will cup or warp toward the drier side.
Moisture content of wood is dependent on the humidity in the air. Kiln dried wood will absorb moisture sitting in a humid lumber yard then dry out after being built into a warm house. Also in a humid summer wood absorbs moisture then dries in the heating season.
Thanks Jessie, informative and interesting video. I am from England and we have timber frames still standing from the 13th century!
I'm from Germany and here are a lot of timber frames. It's called Fachwerkhaus and regardless of them not being build anymore there are a lot around. Some I know date back to the 15 and 16 hundreds, but I'm sure there are much older ones around here. they were build, like you said, out of wet lumber because people needed the housing. While I think the fact that they still stand today speaks for itself there are a few problems. the biggest I know of are wood worms (because the wood isn't protected against them very good) and moisture (some of the timbers are sitting directly on the ground so the water from the ground sucks up and the wood begins to rod)
There are in fact no big warps or anything in the wood besides the natural 'not straightness'. Rich people had the money to afford straight timbers so the house looks nice and simetrical, the poor people could just afford the cheap and crooked wood, so the house doesn't look that simetrical. One interesting thing some people don't know about is that the walls (the space between the timbers in the timber frame) was often filled with a little bit of straw to give strength and was than filled up with (cow) dung
I grew up in a wood framed building in germany build in 1640 (according to the writing in one of the beams).
It is made with wood joints and works fine.
Here in the Appalachian mountains we have log houses 200+ years old they was built green and when the dry the notches tighten. Nothing like ol Virginia! Well southwest Virginia anyway!!!
Jessie! Your face when bugaboo interrupted you was priceless
You also seemed way more calm once you gave in and pet bugaboo. He knew you needed his chill inducing magic touch.
Hilarious
No one is asking about Kiln dried timbers. The question is building with green lumber. When a person builds a log home they don't fall the logs. Take them to a kiln then truck them thousands of miles because they are dry. They fall the logs and let them sit. Not in a kiln as you keep saying but in the elements. Just like the way you stacked your lumber with spacers. To allow natural air flow to naturally dry the lumber. 500 years ago people didn't fall , mill and timber frame their homes all in one day or week. They fell the tress, pealed the bark and then the logs were left to dry out side until such time they could be used as timbers. They never milled timbers and then let then dry that would be stupid. They would warp and bend. Wood is used in boats. Why because it expands and contracts. You can watch it swell in the water to seal a wooden haul. You can watch it shrink when it is out of the water. Wood warps. So the question still remains why not fall the trees and wait for the logs to be dry in a year? Forget the kiln part no one cares about that.
Hi, and bugaboo steals the show! But on a more serious note, I'm in England, old houses were built with green oak because when it drys it's hard and near impossible to work with.
That was jam full of useful information. Thank you very much. wouldn't border about the haters. They were always around, and unfortunately will be around for reasons unknown. Next I'm building my home, and the initial design was "standard" 2x4 framing. I was very inspired by various Japanese joinery videos, and felt that it is simply more than just putting two pieces of wood together. So i redesigned the whole house from bottom to the top, and it will be made post & beam. Then the commercialism of the market here ( Bulgaria, Europe) struck with the Inevitable Inevitability - i can't get beams anywhere to the specs i need, because EVERYTHING is commercialized and way over the budget. So now with this piece of information, which is just as naturally logical as it is, I did the math and it came out it will be much cheaper and effective to saw my own logs. AS Green as possible, and without nails for sure. It's too long to explain it, here. Anyway. THANK YOU for this information. The knowledge is coming in the correct form and shape, at the correct time. :)
Houses used to be drafty and not have much (if any) insulation. This meant that green lumber would dry out on the house. Using green lumber in a modern 'tight' house is a good way to start mold.
Mac - Thanks for being one of those who remember back in the good old days. Everything I said here is 100% true. I can't believe how many people attacked Me. They either were too young to know how it was, or they weren't involved in Home construction or Building Materials. Can't believe how they attack , even if they don't know what they are talking about. Prior to 1975, most homes didn't even have insulated windows.
Thanks for knowing what You are talking about.
Bert Davis You speak Factually...Non-Dried timber has massive problems, they warp just like kiln dried ones. I find it crazy that he's more bothered by his Chisels and ease of use (something you should sharpen often and replace periodically) and making his life easy. I have an Oak Framed building, the guys who built it used traditional Joint and Oak peg. They used French Green Oak that is kiln dried, obviously in its 1st few years it still moved slightly and shrank a few percent (3-4%l) but is still dimensionally stable and actually cleverly designed so where the glazing meets the shrinking is held in check in multiple dimensions. See the cross section model they gave me.
drive.google.com/file/d/1mkAfulJuHc-900InLVJ_pacc8gCPvi9B/view?usp=drivesdk
The rubber gaskets allow the glazing units to move within the frame. If it had not been Kiln dried it would have moved 20% not 3-4%... My view...If you're using softwood on a Timber frame building for structural elements you are a fool (Except if you are using Glue-Laminate composite beams).
a white elephant you mean Jesse, when a white elephant was born it was so revered that it was never allowed to work to pay for its keep and so the only thing you could do was gift it to another to get rid of the expense of its up keep hence the term a white elephant gift
Nice blend of milling and reflection videos
What you guys share is so interesting and educational at the same time right down to the pegs being made of oak never considered half of it thanks. X
Imagine if you went to your local lumberyard and asked for a 8" x 15" x 20' beam. The only thing that would come close would be a LVL product that needed to be custom ordered. No dimensional lumber is exact. I have really enjoyed your videos. Keep Safe!!
After nearly 40 years in the sawmill industry I know that drying of lumber is an art and science. This talk is an example of a little knowledge being a dangerous thing.
So the you tube videos of workers at kilns shoving very large loads of strapped lumber into kilns is faked. That nothing he said was close in any way. If you don’t like the videos go else where. Do I believe every single he says, no but he and she are trying to make their dream a reality. What have you all done today to improve your selves.
joe watts exactly. They've mentioned a few times that they are not experts, yet he makes these videos acting like an expert, passing on false information. Jesse, if you don't know for SURE what you are talking about, don't pretend to know
people used to use sticks to brush their teeth with too, and that worked out ok didn't it?
Where the hell does he get all his facts and figures. He is so annoying
Thanks for taking the time to explain your choice of materials and the methodology and sciences behind the construction of your home. These is so much history and experience behind the methods you are using that our instant cultures are oblivious to. Timber being a living material will act and react to its environmental conditions. At best, we are applying construction methods that have measured outcomes, but timber will sometimes surprise and bewilder even the most seasoned builder. On the explanation pertaining to radiant heating, I think you will find that you can used wood heating without issue as long as you maintain a stable humidity and not dry out your structure too quickly. You should also plan to oil your frame over the years to help age it to its environment. Good video.
Bugaboo to the rescue! Saving the video from monotony!
I totaly agree with Bugaboo!!
I don’t know if y’all get through all the comments on here but if you see this one, I’d love to see a saw mill series explained in this way. You’re very good at staying calm and delivering info in an easily digestible way. And you’ve recently gone from newb to pro so all that info is fresh in your head.
REALLY? TWO VIDEOS ON A DAY? ALYSSA YOU DESERVE A OSCAR!
Between Facebook and You Tube I feel that I'm in a special J&A PL4L universe. I love these why we did (are doing) videos because they add to the whole flavour that this is not an easy project but life challenging and changing. Keep up the good work. Ignore the negativity.
When it comes to kiln dried construction lumber, they call 19% moisture content 'dry'. In timber frame construction, in order to reduce the twisting, warpage, cracking of the timber, it is best to 'box the heart wood' when the timber is cut. This way the drying process will be more even on all sides of the timber.
The old-timers back in Europe did cut wood only at a specific time of the year and they also watched the phase of the moon , before they would cut wood for construction. When building a structure , they used a certain allowance for shrinking and so on . Working with nature and obey the rules .
cutting with the moon is just bullshit
If you put "Bullshit " on a Field , and you do it at the right moon phase , it will go in the ground real quick , and if you do it at the wrong time , the shit will lay around for the longest time . Like it or not , I have witnessed this for to many years ,it never fails .
Good explanation. The pegs basically form an interference fit as the timbers dry. This same teqnique is used in machining only it's done with a difference of heat rather than moisture. For furniture and cabnetry, yes, you want dryer wood, but it's still better to do it slowly as far as less waste when you shave the boards flat and parallel.
Thanks for editing all these videos Alyssa. :)
Love yalls videos
Have built all our family's houses except mine
Amazing y'all can still spend time together after all these months doing this
Isn't something most people can do
Another aspect on drying wood is for killing mites and bugs before they can be relocated in areas they may damage trees .
I approve of taking your time to do something right.
I tore down a house made with green wood. It was the curviest wood in the attic I have ever seen; bow up, down side, twist, and that was just one board. Builds nice, hammers nice, just never let it dry.
Wow! Awesome video. You shared some good information. Your videos are entertaining and enlightening...plus addictive. I've been watching for months. Keep up the good work. Nice video editing skills as well Alyssa!
It's only in the last 100 years that we depleted the stock of old growth timber, with it's densely packed growth rings, which is stable even after it's just been milled. Using the wood available, which is fast growth, wide growth ring timber, the issue of drying stability rears it's ugly head.
I remember reading about England being densely forested but as the country expanded, they needed tons of wood to build their ships, merchant and Navy. This pretty much denuded the hillsides, which prompted importing wood from Europe.
tom7601 They used oak to build there navy. But yes, They tok Down almost every oak tree, and Then They had to wait 150 years to build another navy. 😂 But They came here to Denmark and stole our ships and our oak trees. 😢
Knowledge from the Shelter Institute... Nice. Knowledge is power
yes. i've been in and around beam built structures all my life. they can last forever. i find in every structure, the beams are of varied dimention, even within a single beam, and every building has curved, warped and/or twisted wood in them due to drying after construction. all that said, why are you spending so much effort milling perfectly straight, spot on material, knowing it will change dimension so much later?
You have been able to air dry timber since time began, you just need to be patient. Also standardized timber is something that we have reinvented, the Romans had it nailed a couple thousand years ago.
You comment about "massive misunderstanding", you don't know anything about kiln drying. I am not saying you should kiln dry post and beam, I am only saying you totally misunderstand kiln drying. My grandfather did it, my father did it and I did it, and you are wrong. If anything you said is actually being done they are selling to Home Depot and Lowes not to anyone that knows lumber. They don't dry in "big piles" they dry with very accurate tables to control temp and humidity in the kiln during drying with EVERY type of wood having its own schedule for drying. So yes go ahead and build green, it is fine for post and beam but don't get your facts straight before you try to educate the educated with misinformation. Oh, btw, lumber is cut oversize for two reasons, first it does shrink when it dries and they need to plane it to get rid of the saw marks, which you are having trouble with because you are cutting to exact dimensions and leave no room to plane them. One last point, rain and kiln dry are two different animals. Remember the human body is 98% water but you don't gain weight when you take a shower. The kiln drying removes the moisture SLOWLY from the cells not drying rain drops. Good luck you are learning but keep learning, you are not a teacher yet.
Know nothing about drying wood but the wood at home depot and lows is wet to the point of you better get it nailed together or it will warp curl (thats after you pick through the pile to find the one out of three that is usable) and be useless if it sit's in the sun just a few days even if you lay it down flat.
There making mistakes but look at the project and the drive they show impressive
I have a lot of respect for what they have done, and I wish them well. That is also why I said the info must have come from someone that sells to Home Depot because the info is all wrong as far as Kiln Dried wood. When we dried lumber there were 13 stickers on every row of a 16ft long pile and dried by testing moisture content every day, not a bundle banded together for a couple hours. I am NOT saying they should dry 12X15 beams !!!! I also mean no insult that they don't know, I didn't know until I learned. I am just saying he shouldn't be teaching people how to dry lumber when he does not know how. I would not even consider teaching him how to build a timber frame house, even though I built my own house, I do not know anything about building a timber frame. Also if you look at the wood at the 'giant dealers" you will see "Whitewood", there is no such thing. It is a mixture of Fir, spruce, pine and even poplar. You shouldn't build with pine it is too soft and won't hold a nail, and poplar is a hardwood just like maple...a lot softer than maple but still a hardwood and is not meant for studs.
Peabody, while this may not be helpful to most, poplar is technically a misnomer, as the "tulip tree" in which you are referring to is not actually in the Poplar family. And most box store lumber is "Southern Yellow Pine" as described on the sticker, but you are correct that it can vary, so be aware of that. It's best if you can get one that names the species, then compare with your eyes so you know it's consistent.
Actually lows and home depot in this area labels there soaking wet warped wood full of knots Doug Fir . They also carry a white (there description) wood that is softer has less knots (Warps worse when its dries) but is not recommended for structural applications. I believe quality and even the types of wood available in Box stores varies due to the area and availability. Also box stores are notorious for hammering there suppliers on price.
I agree the wood probably differs depending on the stores.
Oh man Jesse totally has the dad look when Bugaboo interrupts lol
anyone remember they use to transport timber by river, well it's still a thing, used to transport lumber all over the world
Very interesting. It's true. Post frame construction goes back thousands of years, and those beams were cut and hewed at time of need.
Just finished watching your last upload an was about to go to bed an seen the notification now I’m up for another half hour lol but worth it I love seeing updates
When dealing with shrinkage, it is important to note that the length of the beam will only shrink by 0.1-0.2%, but the diameter of a log will shrink 3-5%, that is why shrinkage in a log home is a serious matter to be considered in the design, because the logs are stacked one upon another. Not so with post and beam construction. The mortise and tenon used on post and beam construction will withstand any twisting as the wood dries slowly.
Ole Anderson I am told by local experts and those on other forums that the TF shrinking process makes the frame stronger over time. Cracks/noises over that same time are part of the game. Call it part of the charm.
Sure is cool to follow your videos and also to read the comments of all "the experts" that aren't actually doing what you're doing yet have the innate skills to criticize your efforts. Easy to criticize when you have nothing whatsoever invested into it.
Kuddos to both of you for going the natural way. I can not wait to see the finished house.
Of course one can build with green timbers and in your case their wasn't other options. But you will have problems with splitting and cracking. But that is OK. It gives the house character.
It's called a "white elephant" per Wikipedia: " A white elephant is a possession which its owner cannot dispose of and whose cost, particularly that of maintenance, is out of proportion to its usefulness. In modern usage, it is an object, building project, scheme, business venture, facility, etc., considered expensive but without use or value." xoxo from Arizona.
There are several who like to diatribe against Jesse because you disagree with what he has to say, and because you claim a level of expertise, he must be a "moron," or and "idiot," or "a waste of time."
Here's my take on that.
Jesse has never struck me as someone who just talks of the top of his head while pretending to know what he's talking about. I have had some of the same questions regarding green wood. It is fairly evident that he has done a fair amount of reading and consulting with experts. You can certainly disagree with him, but until your view is universally recognized as the only authoritative view, please keep your insults for personal use at family reunions.
That said, I think one has to go back further than 100 years or so to get away from importing building materials as a common practice. I live in Michigan, and large areas of the lower peninsula was lumbered heavily for building in the Midwest.
I agree 1000%. Cannot be said any better!
I, and I'm sure everyone else, don't mind you being interrupted by Bugaboo wanting a little petting.
Jessie, you are doing great! No one does timber framing with dry dimensional lumber. Another thing you will experience is popping as the frame dries. Great video.
I thumbed up, but I disagree, there are companies that build with both...The kiln dried is usually used in prefabricated timber frames, ...and all the joinery is cut and notched with computers driven components.
Totally agree with you. It's funny how some people can't see beyond modern ways of doing things, because that's all they know. Your frame is going to last a hell of a lot longer than a stick built house. Modern construction methods are great for speed and making profit but don't stand the test of time, and aren't necessarily that eco friendly due to all the processing.
Bb STEALS THE SHOW. SO CUTE
Interesting. Old timers used to cut lumber and store it vertically to air dry. Old growth timber and high line timber with tight grain woods are more stable by means of warping. Also, tight knot and tight grain woods shrink less. Putting the protective coating on the ends of the logs and board ends is good. In my experience in the timber and lumber industry reflects stickering when kiln drying. What is funny about kiln drying is they dry to (if I recall correctly) around 7% but when the lumber goes to a damp climate it gains moisture before the builder ever gets the board. The second and third growth materials you get are warped even coming off the mill green, especially butt cuts from trees growing on a side hill. Air drying is better in my opinion. Looking great, love what you guys are doing!
Mr. Rain Jessie said wood didn’t dry 500 years ago. It was the dark ages.
Love your blog...build..... story.....!!! Awesome. As a child, my family (Dad, Mom, Lil sister and I built our own home. With help of others of course. It is amazing that you both work so hard to fulfil your dream together. I know the depths of your struggle. Keep up the goos work. I am hooked waiting as long as it takes to see the finished product. Ours took 12yrs so hopefully not that long for you.
I love your videos, I really appreciate the amount of time and effort you put into sharing your learning experience and the massive amount of expertise you've gained. Although my project is NOTHING like the scale of yours, everything you are sharing will be useful to me in my woodland in Wales in Britain.
Great Video! Well said and thank you for sharing your research and knowledge! The information is invaluable and anyone that is interested in Timber Framing will come away with some very valuable input, if they watch and take it to heart! Thank you so very much for sharing! Timber Framing is not for the faint of heart! And also not for the 'gotta be done now' folks. It is a labor of love and endurance! God Bless!
A friend of mind, who owns a woodmizer LT40 super, took my wife and me too show several cabins built with green lumber.These cabins and one house was built with green lumber straight off the mill. Some of these has stood for a few years and the only bad 4x4 was one pouch post that twisted a little.These was stick built.Yes it can be done if you know how and if you read books on timber framing you will find most timber framers work with green wood because it is easier to do your joints.
a little know trick industrial launderers use : add some rock salt to your work clothes. it'll not only soften those Carharts a little, it will get a lot of the ground in soil. think about "butchers/mechanics/and the like, the company's rent clothes, and they get them CLEAN. great holidays!
In Australia before farmed pine houses were made from natural growth hardwood. the hardwood was normally milled at a local mill to where the house was built and milled to order. The house frames were constructed whilst the timber was still green with sap running out of it. Once the frame was up and straitened the builders would walk away from that house and go and put up another or finish off the previous one they framed, coming back a few months latter to finish off.
Thanks for the ELI5. Don’t be afraid to assume you have some real newbs here who are genuinely interested in learning more than what you’d find on and old style TV show. 👍🏼👩🏼🌾👨🌾
You can build with anything, whether you should or not is entirely a different question. Green will have the greatest change over seasoned though. Cheers to you both.
Hi Buggaboo, yes, that makes sense, yes you prefer chicken to duck, love prawns but never get them, and all this talk about green wet dry lumber timber is stopping my back scratches and you know I need attention, so point the camera at me more often, I have fans too you know.
I find these types of videos very entertaining. Thanks for describing the science and strategies to this engineer.
Your just egging him on aren't you Joel? ;)
Thank you for doing this video! You just proved my point over a discussion I had with a family member on Thanksgiving! THANK YOU for documenting this!
A.K. Nesbitt, Oh my... I am now interested in what that discussion was because a lot of what he said in this video was bad information.
I like how Bugaboo interrupted the presentation without any protest from Jesse. As if there was no putting Bugaboo off. That cat runs the show!
Excellent video,very informative and you gots love the cat.
The 🐱 couldn't take anymore of that long diatribe.
I did not intend any criticism of Jesse, it is very obvious from watching videoes on RUclips that no two countries do anything the same way.Maybe the fundementals are common, a mortise and tenon is after all one piece of wood fixed to another by scooping out a hole and pushing the other piece in. Its how they are cut and deployed where the differences arise and as long as they perform as required then what does it matter.I think these two are quite amazing, doing a bit of DIY is one thing but building a house is astounding
love your work you guys am and have followed your program since you started this has to be the first time i have ever seen an owner builder upstaged by a beautiful bengal well done mike australia
You can build with green and it will dry, reduce in size and split and twist but still be acceptable... or you can dry and build with that. Also, if you are using pine/spruce then the twisting can be managed by the frame. With oak (I am in the UK) then a drying and twisting oak member can really move all the other timbers. I dont see the need for a debate. Pays your money, takes your choice.
You should read about the German Zimmerman and Timmerman traditions. Many of the principles of log building are also present in timber framing.
I live in a house build in 1612, it's got huge beams everywhere, so does the local castle build in 11th century just a few miles from me and a church build in 15th century, the beams were all untreated when placed and still going strong today many hundreds of years later.
ThatDutchguy cheers from the usa
John Huntington Greetings from the Kingdom of the Netherlands m8👍.
ThatDutchguy I know that your tale is true...and over many parts of Europe and England it is the same. Here in the USA, there are many 'old' houses 100 years old...and quite a few 'very old' houses 200. There are a few 'ancient' buildings 300 years old here...but it seems that you have to add 500 years to those numbers for Europe, Skandinavia, and England. I feel that, if I were to visit, the 'tour' would lose me somewhere as I laid my hand on a beam and wondered how many people through the ages touched that very bit of wood, wondering what they were doing or thinking at the time...absorbing the deep history you have all around you.
But were the the timbers green when those buildings were made all those years ago.....or did they use beams that were dry ?
Bluswede We in Europe and in my country start calling a building old only passed 400 years, we've got Roman barracks still standing here, that's more then 2000 years old and ancient is old Germanic stuff, which we have aswell older then the Roman building by thousands of years.
In my city we've got building from 800 to the year 1000, but an old well and bridge with the remains of a older house are dated to 500 AD, so 1612 is young compared to that, something a 100 to 300 years for us,....is like yesterday.
My newer home walls crack at 2 a.m. Cold weather and very hot weather my walls crack. It's scary in the middle of the night. Great video!
The cat knows what's up!