master modes really killed a lot of my enjoyment in flying around in sc. reintroduce the relative slow flight gameplay? i don't remember it ever being 'slow', now everything feels like one of those rental golfcarts with a GPS limited speed.
People complained about PvP because they were getting ganked while mining or other passive things, NOT because they didn't like the flight model. Master Modes changes none of the original issues! It ONLY destroys any realism in flight.
The only reason escaping may feel harder is because people are swapping to NAV mid fight, and in the wrong ship vs the wrong pilot, you'll die since no shield. This whole thing feels based on AC PvP, and it feels really bad still. Speed differences suck, like every single thing in that "approach next" list is my issues with it.
And as yogi noted, one of the bulletpoints is feeling too vulnerable in NAV mode anyway. Man, MM hate is wild though. I have seen some folks pour on the hate for MM even on game features or issues that have literally nothing to do with MM or even the flight model in general.
@@luistigerfox A part of it is intentional manufactured rage from a certain group of people because it works and baits threads of arguments they hope will kill the project for their amusement.
@@eltreum1 This. This. This. There is a concerted effort from a group of people to try everythingin their power to try to derail the project at every turn; they are the majority of frequent posters on Spectrum and consistently try to drum up drama on Reddit, but downvoting on reddit prevents them from gaining traction most of the time. Spectrum does not have downvotes, so they can troll to their heart's content.
I have managed to escape all my dozen or so unwanted engagements in my Vulture every time. I take a little damage doing it. Buts its a rush when you do.
@@s7r49 hehe hopefully thingS improve but unless they ditch mm, improve perf by leagues n bounds, create meaningful exploration, get nice ai behind npc, create an economy, fix physics but mostly get rid of kindergarden nanny mastermodes, im not coming back....first time i uninstalled in 5 years. Im really not missing it at all since i " played" 3 or 4 times thsi entire year.
@@positronikiss I also hate master modes. Although game runs fine for me for the last year I've gotten around 90fps and my computer is 2 gens old. I'm actually upgrading my cpu and gpu as soon as the 5000 series come out though. economy is pretty bad right now but that changes literally by the month lol.
@@s7r49 Yes hopeful itll become a worthy enterprise as now its really, even though said ad nauseam, a tech demo. For the record, Im not a pvper AT ALL, I dislike pvping, ive never been interested in pvping. MM took away all the liberties from our spaceships, turned them into an imaginary toy full of unreal limitations and quirky nuisances like the constant mode switching to scan, to qt, to nav, to scm, etc...horrendous idea, if the majority embraces it and likes it then fine, I wont whine further because then the game is simply not for me.
The goal SHOULD be to have a game where a skilled player CAN take on 7 noobs. That is an accomplishment most games would like to have. That is a game worth 1000 USD. The opposite - a simplified game that removes skill and practice - to me is worth no more than 20 USD. Most moble games are free and do not require effort to learn to play. Likewise, if the charteristics of a ship frequently change, you own a skin, not a digital item. I would NOT pay 400 USD for skin (oopse, maybe I did - jokes on me). I also play golf, it took me years to get half-way good. I am still working on my swing and realize that I will never win a round against a pro. That is why I enjoy working at it - it is skill based.
Yup, I don't think MM is bad in theory. They just tuned it for their own skill level and understanding, which is lower than the top 1%. They also really need at least one or two devs that understand the combat geometry arguments to avoid boring 1 or 2 strategy combat. I don't get why they don't just try tuning variants in arena commander, like AV1's suggested tweaks. They can even give the players the ability to adjust it themselves in AC and the community will find fun values for them.
Master mode is pretty crap. They could bring back trichording, that would help make it more palpable. Trichording ability could be combined to the boost meter.
i keep saying star citizen needed to have an acceleration curve. No matter what speed you put combat at the fact every ship can accelerated from 0-100 just as fast as 800-900 makes no since. As a ship gets closer to its top speed its going to struggle to go faster. Keep the speeds where they where before and play with the acceleration curve. maneuvering thrusters tend to be stupidly strong for most ships also, they build ships for 15 g maneuvers and then cap them off at speeds land vehicles can go. There top speed is literally landing speed in commercial jets. you cant build ships made to go thousands of meters per second then cap them at slower than jet speeds it makes no since
I kind of agree here. In simple terms they feel to light. Kind of arcadey. I don't feel mass in them. Not to mention, what G's can a human being be expected to pull before liquifying? The difference between a real racing sim and Forza Horizon.
this feels like such a no-brainer that must be added. The speed wall being a literal wall is the worst feeling for racing. You can be coming out of boost in SCM, decoupled and because you are over that speed wall, all maneuverability thrusters cease to work and you cant adjust your flight vector. In a game-mode where you both go fast and fly in close proximity to things, this is a terrible change bordering on the worst imaginable. Pushing your ship to its limits has never felt so godawful; it's a massive shame, particularly with no RPG attributes to level up and see improvement some other way. While so much effort has been put elsewhere to make everything feel diegetic and believable, we have ruined one of the most fundamental aspects of this game on a whim to emulate an almost centuries old bygone era, while taking all the granularity we are privy to with analog sticks -- everything that makes racing games fun -- and rewinding over 2 decades of games industry progress to return us to mario kart era control schemes. another otherwise awesome experience ruined in the interests of broadening it to a wider audience. What a shame; i never knew i would be grieving a bloody flight model but here we are
Im glad to see others in these replies feel the same way. Not sure why cig never thought how when things go faster they struggle a bit harder to go even faster. And i do agree that the changes only make things become to arcadey. I know the game will be taylored more to casuals but even casual players hate this. Theres no speed feeling besides tye breif 5 seconds it takes to cap out scm
I’m really confused by your statement about escaping. With Mm people can not QT away, get shields back, then return to the fight. When you switch from QT to SCM your shields always start at 0 and have to slowly recharge from there. If you go to QT again your shields again need to recharge from 0. Escaping IS harder and abusing QT is no longer possible because of MM. I believe this is what Yogi is saying.
Backing off to let shields regen is a solid tactic and is needed for larger battle and not just locking 2 opponents in combat this is the reason SC is dying. The old way was so much better and allowed pros to keep honing their skills and tech the newer people this just caps everyone and i think is stupid but its opinion based as always. since master modes I have only been in a handle full of servers where there are experienced players stopped playing and going into combat. 100% due to master modes. Mostly newer players in servers keeping SC alive. those can be fixed by applying a different fighting tactic what we use to do is turn and chase as they tried to zip away and 90% of the time it was effective.
thats such a lie, its not new players keeping sc alive at all, and you claim its dying when the active players keep increasing as well as player funding.....its all public data
Everything about the metrics is opposite of what you just said -- they have more new players than ever before, and the biggest spike in active engaged players this year, plus looking at a projected new ceiling in revenue income for Q4.
Not a single friend of my many has left SC for something else. And I am seeing a consistent trickle of new players all the time. Of the vary many I taught to play the game, and its a lot of them over the years. Only two have joined to blow stuff up. The rest could care less about combat and travels speeds. In the many fights I have had, I have always been able to disengage when I need to.
"PvP was bigger in my day..." Yes, that is what he is saying: In the old system, more and more people stopped PvP. If he says they see more people doing PvP now, there are only 2 conclusions: Either he is lying, or this is true. What people complained about in the past? Well, all kind of things. I think that people could dominate if they had more practice, that would be my top. If you were in the PvP community back then, you may have a very limited view on what people didn't like in the old system. Lastly, please be aware that people who complain are way louder than people who are content. So, with change, you will always have loud voices of discontent. This is by no means showing the majority is thinking that. Tuning what they had in their minds was trying to polish a turd. I think they communicated that quite exhaustingly by now. In the end, all opinions are valid. Yours as well. Just because I tend to disagree on your take does not mean I am right - I just think about it differently. I tend to like Master Modes TBH.
Can someone actually answer to me why they're holding onto master modes so hard? So few people like it, why keep it? Especially after saying it was an experiment and asked for feedback?
Wish they actually went through their MM feedback post, instead of responding to one random guy. Saying a tiny portion of their playerbase got used to their system before MM is disgusting and literally makes me think they don't play their own game.
They don't play the live version of the game, they play the internal version of the game, which has features and content the public does not have access to. And majority of people are fine with MM -- it's mostly the trolls and the anti-SC groups who are not okay with it.
Everyone I know likes MM. And thats a very big list. A couple I have met hate it, and want to make sure everyone hears them. I wish we could let them know better how many of us actually do like it, instead of them just hearing so loudly from those few that hate it. Its only a tiny portion that have told them we like it. Cause those of us who do like it, have other places to put our efforts into speaking out loudly. Like real problems.
lol, the game is dead and AC is dead, how can this possibly have been a great success? Flight combat is actually boring, the poieple who cant fight, still cant fight. The only thing that changed is the amount of players playing the game, and that number is negative.
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
master modes really killed a lot of my enjoyment in flying around in sc. reintroduce the relative slow flight gameplay? i don't remember it ever being 'slow', now everything feels like one of those rental golfcarts with a GPS limited speed.
Me, "How did I miss this post that happened a few days ago?" Looks at date of post... Oh, September.
Yea I’ve transferring old videos from my main channel to this one 😂
People complained about PvP because they were getting ganked while mining or other passive things, NOT because they didn't like the flight model.
Master Modes changes none of the original issues! It ONLY destroys any realism in flight.
The only reason escaping may feel harder is because people are swapping to NAV mid fight, and in the wrong ship vs the wrong pilot, you'll die since no shield. This whole thing feels based on AC PvP, and it feels really bad still. Speed differences suck, like every single thing in that "approach next" list is my issues with it.
And as yogi noted, one of the bulletpoints is feeling too vulnerable in NAV mode anyway.
Man, MM hate is wild though. I have seen some folks pour on the hate for MM even on game features or issues that have literally nothing to do with MM or even the flight model in general.
@@luistigerfox A part of it is intentional manufactured rage from a certain group of people because it works and baits threads of arguments they hope will kill the project for their amusement.
@@eltreum1 This. This. This. There is a concerted effort from a group of people to try everythingin their power to try to derail the project at every turn; they are the majority of frequent posters on Spectrum and consistently try to drum up drama on Reddit, but downvoting on reddit prevents them from gaining traction most of the time. Spectrum does not have downvotes, so they can troll to their heart's content.
I have managed to escape all my dozen or so unwanted engagements in my Vulture every time.
I take a little damage doing it.
Buts its a rush when you do.
@@eltreum1 This looks just like so many other topics.
Its got to be sad existence.
I uninstalled sc a few days back....was my fav video game ever, became my most disliked one this year. Shame really.
It's a normal relationship with sc. See you in a few months when it's your favorite game again
@@s7r49 ^^^^ This!
🤣
Cause there is nothing else that does the space life better.
Many have tried though.
@@s7r49 hehe hopefully thingS improve but unless they ditch mm, improve perf by leagues n bounds, create meaningful exploration, get nice ai behind npc, create an economy, fix physics but mostly get rid of kindergarden nanny mastermodes, im not coming back....first time i uninstalled in 5 years. Im really not missing it at all since i " played" 3 or 4 times thsi entire year.
@@positronikiss I also hate master modes. Although game runs fine for me for the last year I've gotten around 90fps and my computer is 2 gens old. I'm actually upgrading my cpu and gpu as soon as the 5000 series come out though. economy is pretty bad right now but that changes literally by the month lol.
@@s7r49 Yes hopeful itll become a worthy enterprise as now its really, even though said ad nauseam, a tech demo.
For the record, Im not a pvper AT ALL, I dislike pvping, ive never been interested in pvping. MM took away all the liberties from our spaceships, turned them into an imaginary toy full of unreal limitations and quirky nuisances like the constant mode switching to scan, to qt, to nav, to scm, etc...horrendous idea, if the majority embraces it and likes it then fine, I wont whine further because then the game is simply not for me.
The goal SHOULD be to have a game where a skilled player CAN take on 7 noobs. That is an accomplishment most games would like to have. That is a game worth 1000 USD.
The opposite - a simplified game that removes skill and practice - to me is worth no more than 20 USD. Most moble games are free and do not require effort to learn to play. Likewise, if the charteristics of a ship frequently change, you own a skin, not a digital item. I would NOT pay 400 USD for skin (oopse, maybe I did - jokes on me).
I also play golf, it took me years to get half-way good. I am still working on my swing and realize that I will never win a round against a pro. That is why I enjoy working at it - it is skill based.
I don't like the current state of MM but I don't want them to "revert back" either. Evolution instead of revolution.
Same. The old speeds aren't technically feasible with 80-100 player shards and would be less so with more players. It was necessary.
Yup, I don't think MM is bad in theory. They just tuned it for their own skill level and understanding, which is lower than the top 1%. They also really need at least one or two devs that understand the combat geometry arguments to avoid boring 1 or 2 strategy combat.
I don't get why they don't just try tuning variants in arena commander, like AV1's suggested tweaks. They can even give the players the ability to adjust it themselves in AC and the community will find fun values for them.
Master mode is pretty crap. They could bring back trichording, that would help make it more palpable. Trichording ability could be combined to the boost meter.
i keep saying star citizen needed to have an acceleration curve. No matter what speed you put combat at the fact every ship can accelerated from 0-100 just as fast as 800-900 makes no since. As a ship gets closer to its top speed its going to struggle to go faster. Keep the speeds where they where before and play with the acceleration curve. maneuvering thrusters tend to be stupidly strong for most ships also, they build ships for 15 g maneuvers and then cap them off at speeds land vehicles can go. There top speed is literally landing speed in commercial jets. you cant build ships made to go thousands of meters per second then cap them at slower than jet speeds it makes no since
I kind of agree here.
In simple terms they feel to light.
Kind of arcadey.
I don't feel mass in them.
Not to mention, what G's can a human being be expected to pull before liquifying?
The difference between a real racing sim and Forza Horizon.
this feels like such a no-brainer that must be added. The speed wall being a literal wall is the worst feeling for racing. You can be coming out of boost in SCM, decoupled and because you are over that speed wall, all maneuverability thrusters cease to work and you cant adjust your flight vector. In a game-mode where you both go fast and fly in close proximity to things, this is a terrible change bordering on the worst imaginable. Pushing your ship to its limits has never felt so godawful; it's a massive shame, particularly with no RPG attributes to level up and see improvement some other way. While so much effort has been put elsewhere to make everything feel diegetic and believable, we have ruined one of the most fundamental aspects of this game on a whim to emulate an almost centuries old bygone era, while taking all the granularity we are privy to with analog sticks -- everything that makes racing games fun -- and rewinding over 2 decades of games industry progress to return us to mario kart era control schemes. another otherwise awesome experience ruined in the interests of broadening it to a wider audience. What a shame; i never knew i would be grieving a bloody flight model but here we are
Which is a soft speedwall, has been proposed many times by PvPers
Im glad to see others in these replies feel the same way. Not sure why cig never thought how when things go faster they struggle a bit harder to go even faster. And i do agree that the changes only make things become to arcadey. I know the game will be taylored more to casuals but even casual players hate this. Theres no speed feeling besides tye breif 5 seconds it takes to cap out scm
i love MM, keeps the creeps away😀
i just love how long it takes to pew pew a LRT with 4 S3 repeaters.
like it's too long. but Vanduul swarm is fun
I really don't like the hard mode switching. I wish that Quantum spooling & Boosting just drained your shield/weapon capacitors or something.
MAKE FLIGHT GREAT AGAIN
I’m really confused by your statement about escaping. With Mm people can not QT away, get shields back, then return to the fight. When you switch from QT to SCM your shields always start at 0 and have to slowly recharge from there. If you go to QT again your shields again need to recharge from 0. Escaping IS harder and abusing QT is no longer possible because of MM. I believe this is what Yogi is saying.
Backing off to let shields regen is a solid tactic and is needed for larger battle and not just locking 2 opponents in combat this is the reason SC is dying. The old way was so much better and allowed pros to keep honing their skills and tech the newer people this just caps everyone and i think is stupid but its opinion based as always. since master modes I have only been in a handle full of servers where there are experienced players stopped playing and going into combat. 100% due to master modes. Mostly newer players in servers keeping SC alive. those can be fixed by applying a different fighting tactic what we use to do is turn and chase as they tried to zip away and 90% of the time it was effective.
thats such a lie, its not new players keeping sc alive at all, and you claim its dying when the active players keep increasing as well as player funding.....its all public data
Everything about the metrics is opposite of what you just said -- they have more new players than ever before, and the biggest spike in active engaged players this year, plus looking at a projected new ceiling in revenue income for Q4.
Not a single friend of my many has left SC for something else.
And I am seeing a consistent trickle of new players all the time.
Of the vary many I taught to play the game, and its a lot of them over the years.
Only two have joined to blow stuff up.
The rest could care less about combat and travels speeds.
In the many fights I have had, I have always been able to disengage when I need to.
"PvP was bigger in my day..." Yes, that is what he is saying: In the old system, more and more people stopped PvP. If he says they see more people doing PvP now, there are only 2 conclusions: Either he is lying, or this is true.
What people complained about in the past? Well, all kind of things. I think that people could dominate if they had more practice, that would be my top. If you were in the PvP community back then, you may have a very limited view on what people didn't like in the old system.
Lastly, please be aware that people who complain are way louder than people who are content. So, with change, you will always have loud voices of discontent. This is by no means showing the majority is thinking that. Tuning what they had in their minds was trying to polish a turd. I think they communicated that quite exhaustingly by now.
In the end, all opinions are valid. Yours as well. Just because I tend to disagree on your take does not mean I am right - I just think about it differently. I tend to like Master Modes TBH.
Can someone actually answer to me why they're holding onto master modes so hard? So few people like it, why keep it? Especially after saying it was an experiment and asked for feedback?
That’s just your opinion, data says otherwise
@VolondM Brother where? Not doubting but I have never seen data anywhere. I figured CIG just didn't release data at this point
Wish they actually went through their MM feedback post, instead of responding to one random guy. Saying a tiny portion of their playerbase got used to their system before MM is disgusting and literally makes me think they don't play their own game.
They don't play the live version of the game, they play the internal version of the game, which has features and content the public does not have access to. And majority of people are fine with MM -- it's mostly the trolls and the anti-SC groups who are not okay with it.
Everyone I know likes MM. And thats a very big list.
A couple I have met hate it, and want to make sure everyone hears them.
I wish we could let them know better how many of us actually do like it, instead of them just hearing so loudly from those few that hate it. Its only a tiny portion that have told them we like it.
Cause those of us who do like it, have other places to put our efforts into speaking out loudly.
Like real problems.
@@festersmith8352 funny how on both sides of the argument know how many like and dislike with some baseless anecdote.
if misses worked backstrafe wouldn't even be worth it
Saying that backstrafe and joust is the only complaint is a flat lie. L take, grow up and understand this isn’t dogfighted space sim.
lol, the game is dead and AC is dead, how can this possibly have been a great success?
Flight combat is actually boring, the poieple who cant fight, still cant fight. The only thing that changed is the amount of players playing the game, and that number is negative.
I hate master modes like democrats hate Trump
Master mode is just stupid, cancel that shit, we used to dig fight in 5,60m/s , it was awesome until Chris Robert decided to killjoy again
MM feels like crap i havent had a satisfying ship fight in months.
good