It's important to keep in mind that the spread of the darts is based on the moa of the gun and not the ammo. The spread on the 153 with the longest barrel is way tighter the the 155 and saiga so you get more effective range from it. The revolver shotty actually has the tightest moa but it's highly limited by not being semiautomatic.
Flechette is a nasty round. I've gotten a few kills beyond 30 meters with it simply by dumping shells in the enemies direction. The things work far better than they should, especially out of a modded saiga 12.
They feel balanced for pump action and maybe 4 round semi shotties but my goodness a 20 drum of flechette is basically a death cone at the small cost of 20 cheap ass shells.
30Metres isn’t out of range for a shotgun they normally can still shred flesh pretty well up to like 50m (maybe 100m I know some buckshot does have a effective range of 100m)
@@andresnyman580 a 20 round drum full of magnum Bugshot is death too. Flechete is balanced, it atleast is a strong shotgun round wich is no slug. This ammo makes the shotguns actuall usable if you don't count AP20 for example.
@@lordofvapor9476 100m is never the effective Range. Yeah you can it on 100m but most likely only with one pellet (wich is like a "normal" bullet to be fair) but the change of not hitting is high. I would say the real effectiv range where you hit 100% if you are on the target is like 50-60m.
Seeing actual flechette get penetration tested IRL is hilarious. Its basically birdshot that destroys your shotgun. It is WAY too effective in Tarkov. ruclips.net/video/ZMPOGYRZ3Hw/видео.html
SF Slugs and Custom Lite slugs are decent rounds as well. You have to have to be good at recognizing armors and knowing which cover stomachs, however. 2 of those slugs to an unarmored belly is lights out. Like always, loved the video. Informative as always. This is how I actually did Punisher pt 5 in just a few Factory raids.
One of the reasons I like you, GB is that final raid you left in 10:10 You've got way more skills than me, plus humility and a sense of humor Thanks for the informative video as always!
not sure if it has been mentioned yet but i think the Armour material dictates penetration, armour durability loss and shots to kill. if you get a ceramic vs titan material the darts behave differently upon impact which is why the trooper is the best level 4
Been using these as soon as I can get them every wipe, but now seeing so many people using them, when before it was super niche. I'm starting to worry that they are going to be nerfed into the ground soon. Whether that be they jeager price or removal of the craft.
@@Maloda People always end up using the shit I was always using forever and getting it nuked :(, before the VSS got super Meta I lived off the damn 2 or 3x Air filters trade to pick them up and use SP5 for a dirt cheap silenced laser. Flechette was always cheap on the flea, was the main reason I used it over AP-20, if they're close in price AP is better imo
If I understand correctly, all the shotgun shells realistically should get nerfed because the only reason their damage values are where they are at is because they were put there as a way of countering the damage bug which has long been fixed. Maybe not for the slugs but I think it definitely applies to the buckshot and flechette.
Flechette is such a weird round in tarkov. Modelled after misconceptions about it that started in vietnam. An issue with regular buckshot is that, at a distance, the thick leaves of the jungle could deflect the pellets to the side. The flechette were designed to stay more stable over longer distances and deviate less after passing through the thick jungle brush. After some testing, it failed horribly and it's effect on humans seemed to be inconsistant or just uneffective. The flechette rounds were not designed to penetrate surfaces or armor, these are not fin stabilized, hardened darts with a discarding sabot to achieve maximum velocity and penetration. These are are about 20 or more darts facing both forwards and backwards that are expected to stabilize in flight. Trials showed that this was inconsistant, patterns were erratic and effectiveness did not justify their production. Flechettes were discontinued during nam after a short trial period, after which everyone agreed that they were generally pretty shit. So tbh the devs should just remove the flechettes all together, or more realistically, turn it into a bleed stacking shot.
@@Gigabeef Yep, flachette shotgun round in real life is incredibly dogshit. The "fin" on them is too small to achieve any real stabilization so they destabilized and spin around erratically the moment they exit the barrel. They were also too light, so they loose energy extremely quickly. They ended up being worst in every way when compared to traditional buckshot, even when come to performance against armor. The only flachette that truly works were larger type used in rockets and drop from aircraft. The extremely large quantity (when compare to how much they can pack in shotgun shell) and heavier weight help overcome the disadvantage of the design.
I use the MP-153 with the longest barrel and I can one shot almost all scavs at 80m, and PMC’s will usually go down in 2 shots at the same or similar range.
I just like using regular buckshot like Express because it's more satisfying to get kills with. I don't understand why Flechette is so cheap given how scary it is.
Biggest reason is craft being relatively cheap for someone who expends fuel, if you're using Metal fuel canister you can use the empty one once you finish and gunpowder kite to craft 120 of them per pop. Its good way of recycling back the money you spend on fuel in the first place and people get to spam the round because its cheap to make and sell
I guess there are a few options with Flechette, and typically people are split between regular/express, magnum, AP20 and then flechette. In my experience outside of about 20m it really is nowhere near as reliable, so I generally use AP20 outside of factory
Flechette is the great equalizer, it's my favorite round ever since they introduced it. It's always been this good, everyone has just been sleeping on it. I've been deleting chads with it since the beginning, and i can never go back to a time where it didn't exist. I've known since it was added that once the mainstream started realising it's power, a nerf would come.
@@cameronnekerekian1712 i used to see it once every 10-15 raids. Now i see it atleast once in every 2 raids, or more. Consider it what you will but people barely used it compared to now.
I don't like it. There are better shotgun ammo available (and I don't mean AP). Flechette is great if you go Factory and pack 20rd Saiga and you hipfire spam... You need way too many shots to actually kill someone with it due to abysmal DMG per dart. You need few shots to burn armour, then another few to actually kill someone. If you have time for that, you might very well run Magnum, RIP or SuperFormance for faster TTK - and unlike Flechette the latter two will 2-3 tap anyone at significantly larger distance.
@@Micromation beg to differ, flechettes are always viable when shooting the head. Give your enemy any type of cover, wether its a steel truck or a wooden box and all these flesh damage alts become worthless. And dont get me wrong, i love leg meta and i use it all the time. But on any map besides lighthouse, my trusty mp153 with flechettes can beat any chad with more value than anything else. The gun and the ammo are dirt cheap, spend 30k on modding to make it 2x7 (iirc) and its guaranteed back in insurance except on factory. And even then you still might get if back. Ill take flechettes over any other shotgun round any day of the week.
I could see them nerfing it but honestly I think it’s fine where it’s at as it’s only really good at close range and honestly personal bias but shotguns aiming for center mass is just so fun
@@Gigabeef i don't think that it is to good. It can stay like it is, i mean it is a good round for players who are not playing 24/7. You can hold your own against chads but you are not killing machine with it. It is not better then a meta AK or M4 or something like that because you cannot just spam 60 rounds arroung the room wich penetrated everything. I mean a shotgun should be strong and you have not much rounds in most shotguns, only the SAIGA can give you 20rounds and with a "normal" shotgun wich have arroung 6-8 rounds you really need to hit to kill and a chad with his ultra meta weapons have still the higher chance. I actually kill more people even in close quarters with guns that are no shotguns, not because i am better with them in general but because i can just magdumb arround the whole room with totally OP ammo. The flechete is atleast a really good round wich you can have even if you are not playing the whole day like i said and it gives less skilled player or player with a job who only play a few hours a day the chance to win fights against chads without relying on pure luck and getting killes 95% of the time if you meet a chad because you cannot even kill them if you dumb your whole mag into them.
I like armor damage rounds a lot, but I’m not sure how well they fit in the meta. If armor is made almost worthless by a certain round, then what does that mean for gameplay? I know the time to kill is insanely low, so maybe it’s not that big of a deal since you have to line up your shots, but taking budget into account, it’s hard to argue that it’s not far more effective long term.
you'd be surprised, the saiga 12 with 10 round mags and kitted out is ridiculously controllable meaning you can just dump into a player from a decent distance - which negates the low kill speed. Flechette is that sort of round where you're not using it to preserve armor - you're looking to kill stuff far above what you might be capable of doing with traditional weapons.
Trust me, a meta mutant with BP is still gonna melt easier than this against someone super juiced, this just give shotguns more utility with options outside of ap in the late wipe game
My fav shotgun is called "The Great Equaliser" and all it runs is flechette. It's job? Kill timmies, chads, bosses, my friends when they annoy me, and everything inbetween.
My go to rat gun is a slightly modded MP-153 with flechette. I have killed a disgusting amount of kitted players with this. Another really good bonus of this is that it also aim punches the shit out of your targets arms when shooting centre mass which helps you survive their fire.
Yeah is it a really good "round". But i play magnum bugshot allot too, just because it is ernormous cheap to craft and if you aim on the legs or head it kills everyone really fast.
I have used Flechettes a lot and concluded that they are inferior to magnum buck and AP20. Magnum buck kills faster with hits to the legs and AP20 is able to hit the thorax from longer ranges while still destroying heavy armor. The accuracy penalty is the main thing that holds flechette back, it limits your effective range to 15-20m, you even have to land 2 hits to the head for a kill. Flechette is trying to be 2 things at once and is inferior to other options for both.
Flechette is definitely for close range and fast clicking. Doesnt matter where you aim as long as you’re hitting with like a saiga it kills. Like if you want pen but cant aim a slug so dont use ap20.
But thorax and stomach is much easyer to hit even with massive recoil. I think it depends on your personal playstyle. Im always pre aimed at thorax myself
Could you check the effectiveness of putting two types of shotgun shells in the mag, alternating with eachother? Like Flechette > buckshot > flechette > buckshot and so on until the mag is full? Because I used to practice that with some weapons and it seemed to do the job really well, against both armored and unarmored opponents.
The benefits dont really coincide. With buck youre hoping to hit the face, where with flechette youre aiming for center mass. There would theoretically be a sweet spot engagement range where the spread of buck covers the face while the flechettes have a decent chance of hitting the thorax, though I feel like its a fringe case to be honest. Id say either run flechettes alone, or a combination of magnum/express/7mm buck.
All I can think is 2 flechette and then the rest 7mm buck and just aim center mass. The flechette to shred the armor and the 7mm for a cheap cleanup but flechette is already pretty cheap so the min/max would probably be a bit excessive.
When you use the double barrel shotgun and you shoot both barrels at the same time does it apply both shots to the armor level from the beginning? Is it more likely to pen if you shoot one barrel after the other?
Flechette is absolutely disgusting. I used saiga 12 a ton last wipe and it was probably my best gun. Incredibly cheap and effective ammo + a gun that people dont wanna loot = Fucked up OP.
I think, is the blunt damage that new modifier that was added that caused damage even if the round was stopped, no pen? So you possibly died to a round that was stopped, that still imparted kinetic damage to you?
Well that is what it implies, but by my understanding it would be extraordinarily unlikely to not have a penetration given the low durability of the armor at that point!
BTW that has nothing in common with how Flechettes act in real life. Those tiny darts can do a lot of damage to the bare flesh, but may struggle to pen even a plastic bottle. Needless to say their efficiency against body armor is very, very doubtful
I don't like Flechette. I know it shreds armour but the damage is pitiful, especially if some of your pellets hit limbs instead of chest/head - if you have time to land 5+ hits on an enemy, you may very well run SuperFormance or RIP slugs, or Magnum buckshot - all of these will kill enemy in lesser amount of hits regardless of worn armour. RIP is really sinister but many people overlook it - it kills in 3 shots to the arm, you don't even need to see legs to absolutely wreck someone. SuperFormance is godlike as well - requires 1 more hit than RIP but boasts 600m/s muzzle velocity and has +175% accuracy bonus making it actually viable for up to 80m (with MP153). Honourable mention to early wipe monster that is FTX slug - basically same as SuperFormance as far as number of shots needed but less accuracy bonus but it's available from Jaeger lvl2. The only time I really use Flechette is when I need damaged Zabralo or Gzhel for quest... in theory you need 3 Flechette hits to kill someone, in practice outside of controlled environment you don't land all darts on the target, some hit arms or miss the target completely unless you're REALLY close.
I do agree with much of what you are saying. This was primarily the point of the final part, that while it does seem busted this is under ideal circumstances & outside of 20m it's hard to apply the damage needed (because a full blast is 200 which is kinda low for a multi-pellet round) as they won't all connect, and not with the thorax definitely
Flechette is a little OP but im not sure how to balance it out without making it useless. Maybe give it negative buffs for semi autos and buffs to pumps, balancing out TTK since semis can just dump em out but pumps can't do it as fast?
I just think a small decrease in pen or armor damage. It shoudn't wreck high dura class 5 that fast IMO, but then again it's only really good close up so maybe it's alright
Irl flechette is known to spread much more to the point it’s no better than equal weight lead shot so probably won’t be long before these are changed . That’s why it’s a novelty rd and you’ll never see them forsale just a waste.
Have been running no armor factory with mp153 monster claw, and I have had insane loot, killed a 3 man once where one of them had a zebrallo and rys-t with meta mutant, others where also kitted. People wearing heavy armor running at you are already dead, you need just 1 second before they get hit punched with 8 rounds of flechette
thats one of the reasons why shitkov is so bad hit punch+screen blur are fucking INSANE on top of camera recoil from firing people wonder why streamers hip fire so much it mitigates the absolute train wreck of systems against you
Hey, nive video there. I have a question : how do you do you penetration chance test like at 2:23 ? Was looking for it and i didn't find it. Please continue your videos (espcially build video cause your last AK build with PP is sick)
@@hamburgerfatso True, but I have obliterated people using high tier armors like zabralos, altyns, and high tier class 5 with little effort. It's why on factory I am ALWAYS playing around flechette because all it takes it me doing something dumb and the round will kill me - or at the very least bleed the fuck out of me and destroy my armor and limbs.
Korund is very much a one-and-done type armor, it's main use is stopping the first shot, not against sustained fire. Consider it like this, you're watching a battle between 2 PMCs, each using an RFB with M80 ammo. PMC 1 is wearing a Korund, PMC 2 wearing a Trooper. PMC 1 lands a shot on PMC 2, penetrating the trooper easily because of M80s 41 pen, leaving PMC 2 almost dead. PMC 2 then fires a shot into PMC 1's thorax, absorbed by the Korund because it is a class 5 armor. This gives PMC 1 the time to land another shot, as PMC 2 needs to land 3 shots to kill as opposed to PMC 1's 2. I quote M80 because it is a popular round, but other rounds can show similar logic, for instance; M62 Tracer, 300BLK AP, M855A1, 5.45 7N40, *366 TKM AP-M* (avoids 1-tap), FMJ SX (MP7), SS190, 9x21 BT, 7N31, KS23 Barricade slug, and AP20 slug
Really hope they dont nerf flechettes or AP20. Tarkov is one of the only games where shotguns are a viable alternative, and work like in real life. Unlike other games where they basically are a glorified melee weapon.
Ap20 is fine as is imo. Flechette is a bit dumb up close against the best armors, I just don't think it should be THAT effective vs slicks for example but against the cheaper ones I'm OK with it
The blunt damage is easy, your thorax blacked but you didn't die (sometimes you survive it going to 0). The next dart didn't penetrate but did 1 blunt damage to the blacked out thorax and killed you
In my humble opinion, flechette rounds penetration is too good to be true from the realism point of view, and I wouldn't be surprised if it would one day be nerfed. 9:49 Which is, to my mind, in a sense the opposite of how it should work: since the flechettes are very light, they should be relatively fast (around 600 m/s from the data I've seen) at the muzzle and loose speed, and thus penetrative power, quite quickly over distance.
I personally use AP20 outside of factory, which is partly why I was interested to see - because I've been dabbling with flechette and it's a mixed bag so far practically
@@Gigabeef recommend trying express buckshot for medium range legg meta, and 7mm for for medium 1 tap headshots. Those rounds are underrated before you unlock ap20
Flechette is by far the best round in EFT if your unskilled. It's especially good if you run with friends that are better than you..as I do. I shoot in pairs of two. Bang, bang, cover (Often it's a kill) If not and I hit once or the guy is a Chad they live.. but are absolute butter for my friend that is better than I am. He pulls one of dem tight peeks opens up and kills in the first 3-4 rounds (often 1st shot). If we get run up on I can panic fire.. often kill one and butter up the second. MP 153 is a pain to drag out so I get insurance return and buy a new suppressor for 28k. Rinse and repeat.
I don't know where the Tarkov devs got the idea that Flechette does anything well. irl nobody uses it because it just tumbles, bounces off armor and does less damage to flesh than regular buckshot. It's basically as effective as loading regular hardware store nails into your shells.
I want to see an explosive flechette slug. A small explosive charge sandwiched between a lead back and a tungsten sabot. Dart hits, slams into the target, inertia carries the lead backing forward into a small charge that shoots the sabot further into the target. Call it the Double Tap slug.
I've always run fleschette over the ap 20's but I didn't realise they'd make it this good LUL street sweeper 20 round shogtun with stupid low recoil with this stuff is hilarious
I like to think somebody watched you and your friend, and was thinking what are these crazy guys shooting each other and changing clothes all the time.. xD
i think this stuff is cool, but to be honest the pen chance is one of my most hated things about tarkov, it makes it feel very inconsistent. ( that and scavs that take like 12 m61 rounds to kill.)
Hah...yup. Same with other slow rounds - the slower the round, ironically the less the damage drop-off is. The PS12B round for the ASh12 only loses 12 damage from 102 to 90 over 250 meters!
Flechette is definately the best & most nasty shotgun ammo in the game. Most people probably tried the shotguns with some random Lead, Superperformance or Poleva slug because they sounded nasty scary.. but fail to kill someone even with mulitple hits. Then afterwards being surpriced by a random npc scav one-shotting them with some puny cheap 7mm buckshot. The truth is that buckshot (7mm, 6.5 & magnum & mainly flechette) are multiple pellets (unlike the single slug ones) so its like fireing a whole pistol magazine in a single shot. Flechette being the only pellet ammo with high Pen makes it the obvious choice. AP-20 & .50 may cost more & have high damage/pen but they are still only slugs. It dosnt take much trial & error to run straight back to flechette. People who dont yet have access to flechette should try the Magnum for the damage or 6.5mm for the 15% recoil reduction. Whatever ammo you choose its a good idea to get adjusted to "double tapping" everything just in case. Shotgun is certainly a bit OP in the game at CQC when you also take into accout the speedy reload (usually without mag change) & price.
IRL, flechette rounds kinda suck! They tumble and don't fly straight, which is why you don't see them being used anywhere. They sound really cool, though.
I wish you'd do these tests a bit more realistically. 99% of the time the person you're shooting at is looking right at you and if you aim center mass at least half of your shots/darts/pellets are getting tanked by arms. I just think looking straight up and allowing 100% of the shots to hit exactly where you want is a tad bit unrealistic to most situations. I understand that you're showing what the best case scenario is and I think you should keep showing that, but I think you should include the realistic situations as well considering that's what most people are here for.
This is a terrible wipe to bring anything good. Your kit should never really exceed a class five armor, with a class four helmet with visor. Everyone’s running low risk weapons, such as DMR’s and Shotguns.
@@cancerousnut7767 what are you on about dude? i bring tagilla rig and survive multiple thorax hits vs the swaths of people running 7.62x39 BP and 7.62x51 M62
@@j0hnicide Who the fuck is running m62? Literally everyone I kill is either running m80, which if catches you off guard can easily kill you fast, with literally zero risk due to how cheap it is. But literally 50% of the fuckers I run into with DMR’s have m61 loaded. The meta this wipe is “low risk” kits. Because if there’s a wipe you’re going to die to something you can’t control, it’s this one.
It should be nerfed! It is way powerful and accessible. If it would either do a bit less damage or would be not so easy to have then that would be a much fairer balance.
@@Joshrouss leg meta, flechette, 762 ps going through class 3 face shields, if no face shields easy face shots with a 9mm spray, there are plenty of ways to kill a chad as low level. people just want to keep the one that requires the least skill/thinking for THEM to use because it's convenient, and then say "oh but what about low levels" when people say it should be nerfed. how many people below lvl 30 do you really see running flechette? vast majority of people using it are higher level, because they're the ones who've realized how good it is. i feel like if you fight higher tier armor, it should be hard to kill without hard to access rounds, otherwise what's the point of high tier armor being in the game if a slick and a trooper protect you the same from a 500 ruble shell?
I think the pen should go down a touch, say 25. There's still 8 darts, so it will still be good but just not do quite as much armor damage as it does currently
Check out this video on the MP155 and 153 next! ruclips.net/video/vxP2bgyf3nA/видео.html
It's important to keep in mind that the spread of the darts is based on the moa of the gun and not the ammo. The spread on the 153 with the longest barrel is way tighter the the 155 and saiga so you get more effective range from it. The revolver shotty actually has the tightest moa but it's highly limited by not being semiautomatic.
Great point thanks 😊
you can put the revolver shotty in semi auto by default "B"
@@pehmis_ double action has much more of a delay than semi
@@pehmis_ Double action is not semi-auto.
Might do something on this eventually because it's widely a confused topic
"sometimes you'll get more penetrations, sometimes you'll get less"
Story of my life
Gotta earn money somehow
Don't fool yourself. You're more of a 7mm guy. Both figuratively and literally. No penetration and very short ''range'' *cough cough*
You make laugh thank
Flechette is a nasty round. I've gotten a few kills beyond 30 meters with it simply by dumping shells in the enemies direction. The things work far better than they should, especially out of a modded saiga 12.
They feel balanced for pump action and maybe 4 round semi shotties but my goodness a 20 drum of flechette is basically a death cone at the small cost of 20 cheap ass shells.
30Metres isn’t out of range for a shotgun they normally can still shred flesh pretty well up to like 50m (maybe 100m I know some buckshot does have a effective range of 100m)
@@andresnyman580 a 20 round drum full of magnum Bugshot is death too. Flechete is balanced, it atleast is a strong shotgun round wich is no slug. This ammo makes the shotguns actuall usable if you don't count AP20 for example.
@@lordofvapor9476 100m is never the effective Range. Yeah you can it on 100m but most likely only with one pellet (wich is like a "normal" bullet to be fair) but the change of not hitting is high. I would say the real effectiv range where you hit 100% if you are on the target is like 50-60m.
Seeing actual flechette get penetration tested IRL is hilarious. Its basically birdshot that destroys your shotgun. It is WAY too effective in Tarkov.
ruclips.net/video/ZMPOGYRZ3Hw/видео.html
As someone who sells 1,000+ of these at a time for 500 a piece, thank you for hyping this round.
I also sold some, should have stocked up more than one rotation though 😂
i swap between flechette and SNBs for my workbench rotations both are ridiculous rounds
SF Slugs and Custom Lite slugs are decent rounds as well. You have to have to be good at recognizing armors and knowing which cover stomachs, however. 2 of those slugs to an unarmored belly is lights out.
Like always, loved the video. Informative as always. This is how I actually did Punisher pt 5 in just a few Factory raids.
This one was great. Very valuable information on the flechette. Good information for any type of player I think.
I love how I pretty much stopped playing this game for months but I still love these videos, keep doing a great job man!
Thanks :)
One of the reasons I like you, GB is that final raid you left in 10:10
You've got way more skills than me, plus humility and a sense of humor
Thanks for the informative video as always!
Haha thanks man :)
not sure if it has been mentioned yet but i think the Armour material dictates penetration, armour durability loss and shots to kill. if you get a ceramic vs titan material the darts behave differently upon impact which is why the trooper is the best level 4
Been using these as soon as I can get them every wipe, but now seeing so many people using them, when before it was super niche. I'm starting to worry that they are going to be nerfed into the ground soon. Whether that be they jeager price or removal of the craft.
Most likely they'll remove it from flea for starters.
@@HeroGenix 100% that's what I'm fearing, but that's just how it will be
@@Maloda Honestly I am surprised they havn't done it already, besides the craft + trader is pretty accessible
@@Maloda People always end up using the shit I was always using forever and getting it nuked :(, before the VSS got super Meta I lived off the damn 2 or 3x Air filters trade to pick them up and use SP5 for a dirt cheap silenced laser. Flechette was always cheap on the flea, was the main reason I used it over AP-20, if they're close in price AP is better imo
If I understand correctly, all the shotgun shells realistically should get nerfed because the only reason their damage values are where they are at is because they were put there as a way of countering the damage bug which has long been fixed. Maybe not for the slugs but I think it definitely applies to the buckshot and flechette.
Flechette is such a weird round in tarkov. Modelled after misconceptions about it that started in vietnam.
An issue with regular buckshot is that, at a distance, the thick leaves of the jungle could deflect the pellets to the side. The flechette were designed to stay more stable over longer distances and deviate less after passing through the thick jungle brush. After some testing, it failed horribly and it's effect on humans seemed to be inconsistant or just uneffective. The flechette rounds were not designed to penetrate surfaces or armor, these are not fin stabilized, hardened darts with a discarding sabot to achieve maximum velocity and penetration. These are are about 20 or more darts facing both forwards and backwards that are expected to stabilize in flight. Trials showed that this was inconsistant, patterns were erratic and effectiveness did not justify their production.
Flechettes were discontinued during nam after a short trial period, after which everyone agreed that they were generally pretty shit.
So tbh the devs should just remove the flechettes all together, or more realistically, turn it into a bleed stacking shot.
Huh is that true, interesting!
@@Gigabeef Yep, flachette shotgun round in real life is incredibly dogshit. The "fin" on them is too small to achieve any real stabilization so they destabilized and spin around erratically the moment they exit the barrel. They were also too light, so they loose energy extremely quickly. They ended up being worst in every way when compared to traditional buckshot, even when come to performance against armor. The only flachette that truly works were larger type used in rockets and drop from aircraft. The extremely large quantity (when compare to how much they can pack in shotgun shell) and heavier weight help overcome the disadvantage of the design.
Killed a slick wearing Chad on interchange with fletchette and the mossberg pump 😎👍🏻
I use the MP-153 with the longest barrel and I can one shot almost all scavs at 80m, and PMC’s will usually go down in 2 shots at the same or similar range.
I just like using regular buckshot like Express because it's more satisfying to get kills with. I don't understand why Flechette is so cheap given how scary it is.
Biggest reason is craft being relatively cheap for someone who expends fuel, if you're using Metal fuel canister you can use the empty one once you finish and gunpowder kite to craft 120 of them per pop. Its good way of recycling back the money you spend on fuel in the first place and people get to spam the round because its cheap to make and sell
@@CallMePies I know that. They could simply get rid of the craft and make it "found-in-raid" like the SuperPerformance slugs.
I guess there are a few options with Flechette, and typically people are split between regular/express, magnum, AP20 and then flechette. In my experience outside of about 20m it really is nowhere near as reliable, so I generally use AP20 outside of factory
i like how tungsten sewing needles magically carry enough mass to penetrate half inch plate armor
Remember that the Samurai armor is An Flak armor Wich is especially designed to Counter things like Fléchettes Wich its does good at the test
Ive loved flechette for 3-4 wipes now, often decently cheap and very powerful on factory (my favorite map).
Impressive attention to detail!! Subscribed!
Thanks!
Great video as always bro
Thanks so much for this testing; all your videos are so relaxing
Cheers :)
Flechette is the great equalizer, it's my favorite round ever since they introduced it.
It's always been this good, everyone has just been sleeping on it.
I've been deleting chads with it since the beginning, and i can never go back to a time where it didn't exist.
I've known since it was added that once the mainstream started realising it's power, a nerf would come.
Never once has this round been slept on wym
@@cameronnekerekian1712 i used to see it once every 10-15 raids.
Now i see it atleast once in every 2 raids, or more.
Consider it what you will but people barely used it compared to now.
@@alexisJonius people use it more now because shotguns are the only viable gun category that didn't suffer from the massive recoil nerfs.
I don't like it. There are better shotgun ammo available (and I don't mean AP). Flechette is great if you go Factory and pack 20rd Saiga and you hipfire spam... You need way too many shots to actually kill someone with it due to abysmal DMG per dart. You need few shots to burn armour, then another few to actually kill someone. If you have time for that, you might very well run Magnum, RIP or SuperFormance for faster TTK - and unlike Flechette the latter two will 2-3 tap anyone at significantly larger distance.
@@Micromation beg to differ, flechettes are always viable when shooting the head.
Give your enemy any type of cover, wether its a steel truck or a wooden box and all these flesh damage alts become worthless.
And dont get me wrong, i love leg meta and i use it all the time. But on any map besides lighthouse, my trusty mp153 with flechettes can beat any chad with more value than anything else.
The gun and the ammo are dirt cheap, spend 30k on modding to make it 2x7 (iirc) and its guaranteed back in insurance except on factory. And even then you still might get if back.
Ill take flechettes over any other shotgun round any day of the week.
Great video mate! I used a lot of flechette in my first few wipes because it would consistently bag me kills. Now I know why😂
I could see them nerfing it but honestly I think it’s fine where it’s at as it’s only really good at close range and honestly personal bias but shotguns aiming for center mass is just so fun
I think the pen could do with a little tweak down
Its a factory round, if you look at it that way it probably should be nerfed
@@Gigabeef i don't think that it is to good. It can stay like it is, i mean it is a good round for players who are not playing 24/7. You can hold your own against chads but you are not killing machine with it. It is not better then a meta AK or M4 or something like that because you cannot just spam 60 rounds arroung the room wich penetrated everything. I mean a shotgun should be strong and you have not much rounds in most shotguns, only the SAIGA can give you 20rounds and with a "normal" shotgun wich have arroung 6-8 rounds you really need to hit to kill and a chad with his ultra meta weapons have still the higher chance. I actually kill more people even in close quarters with guns that are no shotguns, not because i am better with them in general but because i can just magdumb arround the whole room with totally OP ammo. The flechete is atleast a really good round wich you can have even if you are not playing the whole day like i said and it gives less skilled player or player with a job who only play a few hours a day the chance to win fights against chads without relying on pure luck and getting killes 95% of the time if you meet a chad because you cannot even kill them if you dumb your whole mag into them.
I like armor damage rounds a lot, but I’m not sure how well they fit in the meta. If armor is made almost worthless by a certain round, then what does that mean for gameplay? I know the time to kill is insanely low, so maybe it’s not that big of a deal since you have to line up your shots, but taking budget into account, it’s hard to argue that it’s not far more effective long term.
you'd be surprised, the saiga 12 with 10 round mags and kitted out is ridiculously controllable meaning you can just dump into a player from a decent distance - which negates the low kill speed. Flechette is that sort of round where you're not using it to preserve armor - you're looking to kill stuff far above what you might be capable of doing with traditional weapons.
Trust me, a meta mutant with BP is still gonna melt easier than this against someone super juiced, this just give shotguns more utility with options outside of ap in the late wipe game
I mean it kills much slower and less reliably than magnum or ap20 so I think it’s fine
My fav shotgun is called "The Great Equaliser" and all it runs is flechette. It's job? Kill timmies, chads, bosses, my friends when they annoy me, and everything inbetween.
That ending clip just tore my heart to peaces...
Faceshields rip vs flechette hah
love it for how quickly it can shred through tier 5
Outstanding video!
Thanks!
i demand more videos!!!
great content giga as always ^_^
my favorite streamer thank you..... landmark
hahaha dude that was so funny 😂
My go to rat gun is a slightly modded MP-153 with flechette. I have killed a disgusting amount of kitted players with this.
Another really good bonus of this is that it also aim punches the shit out of your targets arms when shooting centre mass which helps you survive their fire.
Yeah is it a really good "round". But i play magnum bugshot allot too, just because it is ernormous cheap to craft and if you aim on the legs or head it kills everyone really fast.
This has always been the round I used, never used AP-20 because of it's price, and I always play shotguns close, so Flechette is just always better.
I never liked ap20 because you have to aim too much 😂 flechette you just shoot at their general person close range and they die
I have used Flechettes a lot and concluded that they are inferior to magnum buck and AP20. Magnum buck kills faster with hits to the legs and AP20 is able to hit the thorax from longer ranges while still destroying heavy armor. The accuracy penalty is the main thing that holds flechette back, it limits your effective range to 15-20m, you even have to land 2 hits to the head for a kill. Flechette is trying to be 2 things at once and is inferior to other options for both.
Flechette is definitely for close range and fast clicking. Doesnt matter where you aim as long as you’re hitting with like a saiga it kills. Like if you want pen but cant aim a slug so dont use ap20.
But thorax and stomach is much easyer to hit even with massive recoil. I think it depends on your personal playstyle. Im always pre aimed at thorax myself
Used flechette rounds at the end of the last wipe ALOT. Had so much fun blasting geared players to the shadowrealm 😂
As for the after raid if you heal in-between damage it will only show since the last time healed
This is true but I'm still not sure if it makes sense!
Could you check the effectiveness of putting two types of shotgun shells in the mag, alternating with eachother? Like Flechette > buckshot > flechette > buckshot and so on until the mag is full?
Because I used to practice that with some weapons and it seemed to do the job really well, against both armored and unarmored opponents.
I dont see why id use flechette and buckshot, not just flechette against armored people
The benefits dont really coincide. With buck youre hoping to hit the face, where with flechette youre aiming for center mass. There would theoretically be a sweet spot engagement range where the spread of buck covers the face while the flechettes have a decent chance of hitting the thorax, though I feel like its a fringe case to be honest. Id say either run flechettes alone, or a combination of magnum/express/7mm buck.
All I can think is 2 flechette and then the rest 7mm buck and just aim center mass. The flechette to shred the armor and the 7mm for a cheap cleanup but flechette is already pretty cheap so the min/max would probably be a bit excessive.
I don't usually use shotguns but when I do it's a M870 with fleshette.
When you use the double barrel shotgun and you shoot both barrels at the same time does it apply both shots to the armor level from the beginning? Is it more likely to pen if you shoot one barrel after the other?
its calculates it per pellet
Flechette can also 0’s an altyn visor in two shots
Flechette is absolutely disgusting. I used saiga 12 a ton last wipe and it was probably my best gun. Incredibly cheap and effective ammo + a gun that people dont wanna loot = Fucked up OP.
I think, is the blunt damage that new modifier that was added that caused damage even if the round was stopped, no pen? So you possibly died to a round that was stopped, that still imparted kinetic damage to you?
Well that is what it implies, but by my understanding it would be extraordinarily unlikely to not have a penetration given the low durability of the armor at that point!
"Gzhel protections you very well until it doesn't" - that is for exactly 1 shot... and on second there isn't enough durability left to matter.
mabye the flechette richochet of the aromor and then hit the armor again somehow and it counted it as blunt because it tumbled?
BTW that has nothing in common with how Flechettes act in real life. Those tiny darts can do a lot of damage to the bare flesh, but may struggle to pen even a plastic bottle. Needless to say their efficiency against body armor is very, very doubtful
flechettes irl barely function as a firearm round lmao
I wish i could find more info about whether this gun will ignore arms or not.
Flechette plus Factory = Love
I don't like Flechette. I know it shreds armour but the damage is pitiful, especially if some of your pellets hit limbs instead of chest/head - if you have time to land 5+ hits on an enemy, you may very well run SuperFormance or RIP slugs, or Magnum buckshot - all of these will kill enemy in lesser amount of hits regardless of worn armour. RIP is really sinister but many people overlook it - it kills in 3 shots to the arm, you don't even need to see legs to absolutely wreck someone. SuperFormance is godlike as well - requires 1 more hit than RIP but boasts 600m/s muzzle velocity and has +175% accuracy bonus making it actually viable for up to 80m (with MP153). Honourable mention to early wipe monster that is FTX slug - basically same as SuperFormance as far as number of shots needed but less accuracy bonus but it's available from Jaeger lvl2. The only time I really use Flechette is when I need damaged Zabralo or Gzhel for quest... in theory you need 3 Flechette hits to kill someone, in practice outside of controlled environment you don't land all darts on the target, some hit arms or miss the target completely unless you're REALLY close.
I do agree with much of what you are saying. This was primarily the point of the final part, that while it does seem busted this is under ideal circumstances & outside of 20m it's hard to apply the damage needed (because a full blast is 200 which is kinda low for a multi-pellet round) as they won't all connect, and not with the thorax definitely
get headshots nerd, I turn Atlyns into butter
Flechette is a little OP but im not sure how to balance it out without making it useless. Maybe give it negative buffs for semi autos and buffs to pumps, balancing out TTK since semis can just dump em out but pumps can't do it as fast?
I just think a small decrease in pen or armor damage. It shoudn't wreck high dura class 5 that fast IMO, but then again it's only really good close up so maybe it's alright
Irl flechette is known to spread much more to the point it’s no better than equal weight lead shot so probably won’t be long before these are changed . That’s why it’s a novelty rd and you’ll never see them forsale just a waste.
Have been running no armor factory with mp153 monster claw, and I have had insane loot, killed a 3 man once where one of them had a zebrallo and rys-t with meta mutant, others where also kitted. People wearing heavy armor running at you are already dead, you need just 1 second before they get hit punched with 8 rounds of flechette
Haha nice!
thats one of the reasons why shitkov is so bad hit punch+screen blur are fucking INSANE on top of camera recoil from firing people wonder why streamers hip fire so much it mitigates the absolute train wreck of systems against you
@@kinsgaming8197 It's almost like you just got shot
@@joshjoshinson3452 And you would fall on your ass especially from a shotgun
I had eod I made it to lvl 15 just using the saiga 12 and magnum buck lol. Love this gun still have my starting mdr as well as m4 and aug.
At around 6:20 did you heal before putting on the new armor? That mightve made it only 8 blunt
Yeah you can see my HP is 440/440 in the menu
Hey, nive video there. I have a question : how do you do you penetration chance test like at 2:23 ? Was looking for it and i didn't find it. Please continue your videos (espcially build video cause your last AK build with PP is sick)
Veritas' Battle Buddy app! Download it, it's great for that stuff
No zabralo test?
watched this video then went into raid with flechette and killed 2 chads with 90 kg of gear on before they could shoot me once
Flechettes are really strong in factory, just the other day I fully melted a kround guy with like 3-4 shots
Korund is pretty Garbo tho
@@hamburgerfatso True, but I have obliterated people using high tier armors like zabralos, altyns, and high tier class 5 with little effort. It's why on factory I am ALWAYS playing around flechette because all it takes it me doing something dumb and the round will kill me - or at the very least bleed the fuck out of me and destroy my armor and limbs.
Korund is very much a one-and-done type armor, it's main use is stopping the first shot, not against sustained fire. Consider it like this, you're watching a battle between 2 PMCs, each using an RFB with M80 ammo. PMC 1 is wearing a Korund, PMC 2 wearing a Trooper. PMC 1 lands a shot on PMC 2, penetrating the trooper easily because of M80s 41 pen, leaving PMC 2 almost dead. PMC 2 then fires a shot into PMC 1's thorax, absorbed by the Korund because it is a class 5 armor. This gives PMC 1 the time to land another shot, as PMC 2 needs to land 3 shots to kill as opposed to PMC 1's 2. I quote M80 because it is a popular round, but other rounds can show similar logic, for instance; M62 Tracer, 300BLK AP, M855A1, 5.45 7N40, *366 TKM AP-M* (avoids 1-tap), FMJ SX (MP7), SS190, 9x21 BT, 7N31, KS23 Barricade slug, and AP20 slug
Really hope they dont nerf flechettes or AP20. Tarkov is one of the only games where shotguns are a viable alternative, and work like in real life. Unlike other games where they basically are a glorified melee weapon.
Ap20 is fine as is imo. Flechette is a bit dumb up close against the best armors, I just don't think it should be THAT effective vs slicks for example but against the cheaper ones I'm OK with it
Shotguns normally do not penetrate armor in real life. Kevlar is usually enough to stop any projectile they can throw at you.
Yeah i feel like if they were trying to be 100% realistic theyd it but they definitely take some liberties
I call it...the equalizer. I don't have to be afraid of the fridges on legs in dorms when I have flechettes at my side.
No mention of the bleed chance? Even if one survives 2-3 direct blasts, there is a good chance that you will bleed out before getting to heal.
I guess I find that bleed hardly ever matters in most situations
flechette is the SHETTE, except at distance- then switch to AP rounds
You kinda look like linus from linus tech tips
Thanks for letting me shoot you, for science! Fantastic amount of research for this video, you presented the data really well.
Cheers! Was a lot of fun actually, thanks for making it possible!
The blunt damage is easy, your thorax blacked but you didn't die (sometimes you survive it going to 0). The next dart didn't penetrate but did 1 blunt damage to the blacked out thorax and killed you
In my humble opinion, flechette rounds penetration is too good to be true from the realism point of view, and I wouldn't be surprised if it would one day be nerfed.
9:49 Which is, to my mind, in a sense the opposite of how it should work: since the flechettes are very light, they should be relatively fast (around 600 m/s from the data I've seen) at the muzzle and loose speed, and thus penetrative power, quite quickly over distance.
Yep yep, I think they should lower the pen a little for now just for balancing purposes
I love this ammo.
Man i just shot a dude 8 times on shoreline with magnum buckshot, from now on i'm using flechette
Idk why but flechette always underpreforms for me, it doesn't feel reliable like a magnum buck or AP20
Glad I am not the only one with this experience.
I personally use AP20 outside of factory, which is partly why I was interested to see - because I've been dabbling with flechette and it's a mixed bag so far practically
@@Gigabeef recommend trying express buckshot for medium range legg meta, and 7mm for for medium 1 tap headshots.
Those rounds are underrated before you unlock ap20
Flechette is by far the best round in EFT if your unskilled. It's especially good if you run with friends that are better than you..as I do.
I shoot in pairs of two. Bang, bang, cover (Often it's a kill)
If not and I hit once or the guy is a Chad they live.. but are absolute butter for my friend that is better than I am. He pulls one of dem tight peeks opens up and kills in the first 3-4 rounds (often 1st shot).
If we get run up on I can panic fire.. often kill one and butter up the second.
MP 153 is a pain to drag out so I get insurance return and buy a new suppressor for 28k.
Rinse and repeat.
anyone have a counter for how many times Gigabeef said "penetration" in this video?
I don't know where the Tarkov devs got the idea that Flechette does anything well. irl nobody uses it because it just tumbles, bounces off armor and does less damage to flesh than regular buckshot. It's basically as effective as loading regular hardware store nails into your shells.
I want to see an explosive flechette slug. A small explosive charge sandwiched between a lead back and a tungsten sabot. Dart hits, slams into the target, inertia carries the lead backing forward into a small charge that shoots the sabot further into the target. Call it the Double Tap slug.
I've always run fleschette over the ap 20's but I didn't realise they'd make it this good LUL street sweeper 20 round shogtun with stupid low recoil with this stuff is hilarious
Truth is its awesome. Done.
Do you think a drum mag with this bullet and a ap mixed together would be dangerous
Drum with BP and PS you mean?
Cheap shot gun ammo to the leg does more damage than a flechette would do to tagilla’s armor.
On one hand I’m glad they found a way to make shotguns powerful, and on the other hand I’m tired of getting laid out by a 134 rouble ammo
It's too cheap imo. Should be more expensive even if they do nothing to the shell itself
I like your video!
I like to think somebody watched you and your friend, and was thinking what are these crazy guys shooting each other and changing clothes all the time.. xD
Ha I would love to think! We had a spotter/third man on protection duty too :D
Welp. I'm using shotguns with flechette now.
i think this stuff is cool, but to be honest the pen chance is one of my most hated things about tarkov, it makes it feel very inconsistent. ( that and scavs that take like 12 m61 rounds to kill.)
so ur saying if u got 5 guys with flechette on woods, and just spammed somebody from across the map, you MIGHT eventually kill them
Hah...yup. Same with other slow rounds - the slower the round, ironically the less the damage drop-off is. The PS12B round for the ASh12 only loses 12 damage from 102 to 90 over 250 meters!
Do u even want to try to shoot them over 30m or just try to get closer?
what is the app you're using to check the pen?
Battle Buddy app on android (or iOS)
@@Gigabeef thanks Gigabeef
You can legitimately obliterate tagilla and most other scav bosses in close range with flechettes in very few shots. The round is amazing!
Thats how i get my tagilla kills, its so quick
Flechette is definately the best & most nasty shotgun ammo in the game. Most people probably tried the shotguns with some random Lead, Superperformance or Poleva slug because they sounded nasty scary.. but fail to kill someone even with mulitple hits. Then afterwards being surpriced by a random npc scav one-shotting them with some puny cheap 7mm buckshot. The truth is that buckshot (7mm, 6.5 & magnum & mainly flechette) are multiple pellets (unlike the single slug ones) so its like fireing a whole pistol magazine in a single shot. Flechette being the only pellet ammo with high Pen makes it the obvious choice. AP-20 & .50 may cost more & have high damage/pen but they are still only slugs. It dosnt take much trial & error to run straight back to flechette. People who dont yet have access to flechette should try the Magnum for the damage or 6.5mm for the 15% recoil reduction. Whatever ammo you choose its a good idea to get adjusted to "double tapping" everything just in case. Shotgun is certainly a bit OP in the game at CQC when you also take into accout the speedy reload (usually without mag change) & price.
The "no bag, no rig, no problems" loadout 😁
OMG, was this test on customs? In the corner of storage in bottom left? I found a body near the corner and assumed that someone dc'd.
Nah most of the testing was shoreline :)
So that's why I got 1 tapped to the chest with lvl 4 armor bruh
IRL, flechette rounds kinda suck! They tumble and don't fly straight, which is why you don't see them being used anywhere. They sound really cool, though.
What's even the point of armor in this game, when a 300 rouble shotgun round has the chance of 1-2 tapping you?
For everyone else not using one
And to think insurgency made a flecette ks-23
oh boy
I would say ap20 is the most popular and by a Longshot
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they really need to change blunt damage on hard body armor. in real life you dont get hurt from pistol or shotgun rounds hitting hard body armor
that's absolutely not true at all.
@@thepjup4507 oh shit you're right you convinced me
I wish you'd do these tests a bit more realistically. 99% of the time the person you're shooting at is looking right at you and if you aim center mass at least half of your shots/darts/pellets are getting tanked by arms. I just think looking straight up and allowing 100% of the shots to hit exactly where you want is a tad bit unrealistic to most situations. I understand that you're showing what the best case scenario is and I think you should keep showing that, but I think you should include the realistic situations as well considering that's what most people are here for.
They should add duckbills to tarkov
i bought a defender and an altyn, aaand died to saiga12 flechette
This is a terrible wipe to bring anything good. Your kit should never really exceed a class five armor, with a class four helmet with visor. Everyone’s running low risk weapons, such as DMR’s and Shotguns.
@@cancerousnut7767 welp, class 6 plate carrier + sj6 running around like crazy works out pretty good
@@cancerousnut7767 what are you on about dude? i bring tagilla rig and survive multiple thorax hits vs the swaths of people running 7.62x39 BP and 7.62x51 M62
@@j0hnicide Who the fuck is running m62? Literally everyone I kill is either running m80, which if catches you off guard can easily kill you fast, with literally zero risk due to how cheap it is. But literally 50% of the fuckers I run into with DMR’s have m61 loaded. The meta this wipe is “low risk” kits. Because if there’s a wipe you’re going to die to something you can’t control, it’s this one.
Defender isn't that good, it's only a little step above the Gzhel so not that surprised! Flechette is a rough one
why no "hello everyone bibageef hier"
nvm i watched 5s more
my bad
@@kajek777 yeah you better be sorry /s
HAHA that was the best early comment of all time 😂
Where is the zabralo >(
but good video now i know why i hate shotguns xD
Just drum spam the saiga into a slick, see how quickly the man dies
Have done this for many wipes, very amazing
Brutal ammo. Giga gonna get flechette nerfed!
I am doing everyone a service :D
It should be nerfed! It is way powerful and accessible. If it would either do a bit less damage or would be not so easy to have then that would be a much fairer balance.
Because how dare low levels have ONE option to fight tier 5 armor
@@Joshrouss leg meta, flechette, 762 ps going through class 3 face shields, if no face shields easy face shots with a 9mm spray, there are plenty of ways to kill a chad as low level. people just want to keep the one that requires the least skill/thinking for THEM to use because it's convenient, and then say "oh but what about low levels" when people say it should be nerfed. how many people below lvl 30 do you really see running flechette? vast majority of people using it are higher level, because they're the ones who've realized how good it is. i feel like if you fight higher tier armor, it should be hard to kill without hard to access rounds, otherwise what's the point of high tier armor being in the game if a slick and a trooper protect you the same from a 500 ruble shell?
I think the pen should go down a touch, say 25. There's still 8 darts, so it will still be good but just not do quite as much armor damage as it does currently