20mph limits in Wales - with brake testing! What's occurring?
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- Опубликовано: 13 сен 2023
- The default 20mph speed limit change in Wales is causing horror and outrage. I take a measured look at the thinking behind it, and do an exciting brake test demonstration in my Citroen 2CV!
The change is effective from 17th September 2023 so don't get caught out.
#20mph #wales #cymru
List of links:
Welsh Government: www.gov.wales/introducing-def...
Scottish Government research: archive2021.parliament.scot/S...
London Assembly, 20mph effect on emissions: www.london.gov.uk/who-we-are/... 
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The biggest issue is the complete disregard for the public consultation - why bother asking if your mind's already made up?!
That is definitely questionable behaviour.
Called corruption .None of the political parties is trustworthy any more ,and they never stick together on any subjects
Like you I didn't realise there had been a vote on this,all kept quiet
Probably so you can be seen to have asked the public but have assumed the public response can only go one way.....Brexit referendum?
The fact that they asked the public and the majority said no but they went ahead anyway is totally wrong.
Politicians from all sides of the political spectrum need a wake up call and that's only going to happen if we the voters come out of our comfort zones and vote for candidates from non mainstream parties or independents.
We also need voters to actually bother turning out at elections, a low turnout sends out a signal that we aren't really bothered how the country is run.
Anyway thats my rant over, can we go back to some fun stuff please 😊
@@graham104e What's Brexit got to with it .That's done and dusted all be it by half ,and there was a vote on that ,that everyone knew about .The outcome was the majority wanted out ,unlike the 20ph stuff .It's just more government corruption
I'm used to 20mph zones driving in London several times a week. My only real problem is having other cars right up my arse when I'm doing 20 as they don't want to!
Exactly, let the road rage begin!
Yes. I'm quite used to driving on narrow lanes at a sensible speed and having an Amazon or DPD van about a quarter of an inch behind me.
I've found that to be the case at every speed limit. Very few people want to travel at the posted speed, but like to add a couple or so more mph on top.....
Well done for being one of the few that stick to the limit 🙂
That's their problem not yours...drive the way you want and worry not about impatient idiots behind you.
I enjoyed the video. I feel like distracted driving is a far greater problem then speeding. I have had close calls with people actually watching videos on there phones while driving. One reason I like old cars so much is because you really feel the drive. modern cars are so well insulated people think they can whip out there phones and browse the internet.
THIS.
alright distracted drivers doing 20 vs 30, which is more dangerous?
I would like to see more emphasis places on other road offences, Mobile Phone use. Poor Lane discipline and better culture of ongoing road safety education
I agree 100% but unfortunately the government hasn't figured out a way of fining people for driving badly due to being distracted where as speeding fines are a really convenient way of raising funds. I'm proud to have contributed quite a lot of money myself over the years and I know that the government uses every penny I pay in fines to run the country efficiently. Gives me a warm glow inside.🤔
watch an old top rear when they put a knife on the steering wheel ! the people drive much better when its them that might get hurt
Not to mention all the money they'll make in fines!
Stick to 20 then, that'll show 'em!
@@ethelmini It's even simpler don't go to Wales and starve their tourist economy
@@100CupsColombia Yeah best to avoid giving them anything
You said that cars don`t always travel at the speed limit and, in urban areas, the average is about 22mph. So, with a 10mph reduction coming in, the average will drop even lower, to maybe 15mph. That will DEFINITELY increase journey times.
Someone else who works on common sense and data analysis I made exactly the same point without reading your comment 👍
The new limits apply only to residential areas, so unless you're driving a lot in residential streets (which is utterly ridiculous) the difference will be negligable - those streets often mean you have to stop for junctions, crossings, etc
One of the effects will be to move traffic out of those areas thus making them safer
@@FSMDogyou obviously don't live in an urban area to make that assumption
@@strangemagic5502 You know nothing about where I live, I have commuted for many years
Do a rural trip. Go through multiple villages. See the difference in *your* time taken if those villages are 20 or 30.
20mph is the automotive equivalent of walking along with your shoelaces tied together
That is what most motorists driving skills equate to, so it's a match!?!
It's about control and to force cars off the road, bus services will be effected and it will take longer to get anywhere
Don't take it too hard, it's not like the Gov's trying to control how far you can go anymore. Back at the start of covid in Ireland there was a restriction of 2kms on how far you could go from your home, everybody just ignored it, by now, the penalties gained from this should be cleared from their licences. It does set a dangerous precedent about Govs passing laws without any form of oversight.
Buses stop regularly, so will rarely hit the limit anyway...
Tell me you've never ridden a bus....
@@FSMDogThey speed between stops and regularly reach the limit between those stops, now imagine this "little" bottleneck applied to the whole system.
Cycle lanes, speed restrictions, ULEZ schemes, the next attack is going to be against "rat runs". They plan to bunch all the traffic up on the major routes. they want to slowly make using a motor vehicle less and less exciting/practical.
I live in north Cardiff. Five years ago, we had the imposition of lots of road humps and road tables - apparently to reduce average speeds and the severity of accidents. As we're now having the 20mph limit apparently for the very same reason, can we now have them removed, please?
no, because people don't obey the law
very good point that, can't see that happening tho.
Good luck with that, they wil probably put even more bumps now.
I hate the traffic calming humps and bumps as much as the next person, but they're there for the people who refuse to stick to what the signs tell them, in places where they really really need to.
Most vehicle gearbox's are not designed to cruise efficently at 20 MPH. 🤪
So what?
i always wondered what Ellies oil filter looked like
You need to get a life then
Indeed, that was a marvellous view of the oil filter.
How rude
🤣🤣@@antonycharnock2993
There are too many unnecessary speed limit reductions going on - there is a sensible argument for it in built-up areas, but it isn't always appropriate (such as on urban main roads at night), but the 30-20 change isn't the only one going on. Many trunk roads are reducing limits from 60 to 50 and from 50 to 40.
Too right, unfortunately. The main road near where I live (which was until recently the absolute periphery of my town - until hundreds more houses began to be built just on the other side, upon what I'd always believed was condemned land on account of ex-mining pollution and instability...) had a 60mph limit when I moved in 25 years ago. Then it was cut to 50mph and then cut again to 40mph, worsened further by obstacles in the middle of the road, preparatory to the new housebuilding. During the early phases of this building, the limit was even cut to 30mph for a long time (with one-way traffic and 'temporary' traffic lights that have since been replaced by permanent ones...). Too many issues wrapped up altogether - everything is an excuse for some new bit of bureaucracy. The speeders will still speed, but now they have more to hit if something goes wrong. I'm waiting for ANPR cameras to be installed next - the onward march of the Totalitarian State.
Place a frog in a pan of cold water and slowly turn up the heat. It will slowly boil to death, not realising what is going on. . Tyranny is brought about by so called good people doing nothing as evil encroaches upon us.
Of course you'll know better than traffic engineers that do comprehensive studies.
If you really know better you can always speed, if you get a ticket or have an accident you'll find out that you didn't afterall and it'll be easier for any innocent parties to make you take responsibility for your errors.
@@ethelmini some of those traffic "engineers" have came out of university with some pointless degree and have never actually driven a vehicle, so it's quite probable that drivers who drive every day DO know better!
They are 'unnecessary because?
The 20mph is for built-up area...
Another car driver who thinks nothing of other road users/pedestrians?
Basically Wales is catching up with the rest of the UK.
When you may be made redundant you have consultation then you get made redundant anyway. Consultation means already decided they listen and take absolutely no action 😂😂😂
= Globalism !
my son lives in Abergavenny and the 20mph rule is a pain. All the way in from the Old Hereford road to the town and beyond at 20MPH in 2nd or 3rd gear. Perhaps we should have a man walking in front with a red flag- again- that would be even safer.
They likely considered that, but then remembered where to find all these men with flags
Wouldn't you just use the bypass at 60 until the skenfrith road turn off instead? Save you at least an hour!
@@adambcvg we could go that way, but the point is it is a good road with good visibility and 20mph is ridiculously slow. If 20 is safer than 30 then 10mph would be even safer. Where do you draw the line? I think it will put tourists off visiting Wales, it certainly would me anyway as I enjoy driving my classic cars, but not at that speed.
I won't be visiting wales too often after this silliness and I visit multiple times a year , I'll find somewhere else to go that isn't going to strain the life out of my poor car engine that isnt designed to go at 20 mph all over the place. It's either going to cost a lot of money for repairs that doing this to cars might cause and also just encourage others to find alternative routes so the slow roads will no longer be used and the faster roads will need lots more repairs more often ..just my opinion..
@@bigmort6916 yep and I wholeheartedly agree as do my friends with classic cars and bikes that enjoyed visiting Welsh towns and villages.
It has gone from fun to a grind.
I’m honestly mainly shocked at how quickly an old 2CV can stop! The 20 was practically instant, and the 30 wasn’t that far behind!
Modern brakes are generally excellent, but you can’t deny the light weight made a huge difference here.
Modern brakes, modern tyres, ABS, modern road surfaces etc.. All contribute to shorter braking distances than being quoted by the welsh government, the ones on the back of the highway code were last updated in 1968 on 4" crosplys with all round drum brakes
@@chrisw3771 never disputed that, just simply pointing out that the 2CV also managed to exceed the Highway Code official braking distances.
@@benmarshall4202 I agree, shows how out of date they are
I find it very hard to accept that a 2CV can decelerate at nearly 1.5g!
Well maintained brakes a dry road and car that weighs nothing.
I just had my fist commute in this today. It was utterly f*ecking* soul-destroying.
It normally takes 40 minutes, but today it was 90! Insanity. It wasn't just the lack of speed, but the way everyone was so completely bunched up due to the reduction in road capacity (due to the lack of speed).
I saw a press release from the WAG which said they'd "save £90 million over 10 years by reducing the number of accidents", but that there would be "an unfortunate cost to the Welsh economy of £6.2 billion over 30 years". Insanity.
How does that work? Road capacity is increased at slower speeds, due to smaller braking distances required. That's why variable limits were brought in on motorways.
2 weeks in, and it's still the same. 90+ minutes.
I'm having to change jobs. It's insane. Not only is the time much too long now, my fuel bills have more than doubled due to the increase in bumper to bumper traffic.
Also, road capacity doesn't increase at slower speeds. Road capacity isn't just the physical space you have on the road, but rather the number of vehicles you can get through that road in a given span of time. Lower speed is one way of reducing capacity. @@siwynjones
In the last few months, it dawned on me that it isn't unlike cables used for data, or the copper traces of a computer.
12:18 no, it means people boycott the areas involved, just like they do with town centres where they have to pay to park; retail parks are usually free and therefore busy!
They don't do any such thing. Town centres shouldn't have traffic in them anyway.
Mind you I'm also of the opinion that retail centres shouldn't exist but that's by the by...
@@GryphLane No, you're right; town centres are in their heyday; never seen them busier and 20mph will encourage many more more people to travel into the towns!
no-one is boycotting town centres; they're just buying cheap stuff off amazon and ebay
@@stewartellinson8846 ok, maybe I've mis-interpreted people choosing to go elsewhere and refusing to go into town because they don't agree with the local practices. ;-)
North wales have removed some 30 mph signs where it changes from 40 to 30 mph. Almost weekly the police speed trap van is at these places, guessing they’re catching loads of people out and will catch even more now.
Thing being, in Bristol where I live, if you do 20, it triggers the hell out of people and they get so close behind. I think the culture of tailgating needs to change too.
I write this in Portugal where it is just ridiculous how close they drive behind you.
Years ago I saw some TV programme, one of those "Pomes go live in the Sun" sorta things. One one particular "highway" of some just under 300 kilometres in length (about 180 miles) they said the annual death toll from car crashes was about 300 people killed per year.
The Portugese authorities considered the death rate of about one person, per kilometre of road, per year, was acceptable.
They blamed it partly on British folks in Rental cars driving on the, (unfamiliar to them), "wrong" side of the road, and that the road, often narrow and without a central divider, allowed high speeds in the mostly rural parts but also ran through many small villages and towns.
I always thought maybe too many people were enjoying too much of the local wines as they drive between different restaurants, vineyards, hotels and cafes, on their holidays ?
That tends to be a concurrent problem on the European continent in general
I've seen lots of roadrage on 20 mph roads from impatient drivers, and that for me goes against the safety aspect of these changes.and travelling along on roads that go up and down the speed limits so often is confusing a lot of road users.
People who suffer from road rage shouldn't be driving...
@@FSMDog But they are and there is no filth around to stop them since the Tories got rid of thousands of traffic cops.
It could be that many drivers are not ignoring the 20 limits but naturally default to around 30. I’ve been driving for 35 years, nearly 20 of which in HGv, I find that 30, 40 and 50 limits are easy to adhere to without constant checking of the speedo.
When I travel through areas with many 20 limits such as Wales or London, I find it very difficult to find that natural adjustment. Years of driving those urban roads tends to set up an inner autopilot. Really it needs more frequent visual reminders such as signs or road markings to be effective.
If you are unable to make the adjustmnent, stick to public transport, or avoid the many places bringing in 20mph zones
Remember the speeds are a LIMIT, not the recommended speed when circumstances change
Would you slow down if you saw a bunch of kids nearby?
@@FSMDog less unable to make the adjustment rather than the signage denoting the lower limits could / should be more obvious. Without reminders it is easy to revert to what for years would be an appropriate speed which could well be less than 30mph.
I travel across the country through rural areas and cities, have done hundreds of thousands miles and have a clean licence. I don’t have a problem with reducing speed limits but think that if you actually want people to adhere you should put the effort in. Many roads get down graded by removing the gateway signs and just continuing the small repeaters. Surely a better way would be to reinforce it with new speed limit signage.
I agree with you on the ability to judge your speed. I have found driving in a 20 zone with parked cars on either side it can be difficult to judge when to pull around a parked car with oncoming traffic.
You used to be able to 'read the road' to judge the speed limit.
I've driven HGV and driven in London. I found the best approach was to not even try to do the speed limit. Just keep as steady a speed as possible & go with the flow.
Using this logic 5mph is much safer than 20mph but the council will still fine you for doing 7mph. That should hopefully clear up any confusion as to what this 20mph limit is really all about.
A lot of 20mph limits have been introduced in Birmingham in the last few years. They too had a consultation where 70% of respondents were against the change. The Council moderated the results because they felt motorists were over-represented and went ahead with the reductions anyway. They are pretty much universally ignored, so the motorist driving at 20mph poses rather more of a hazard due to other drivers' impatiance. Taken to its ridiculous conclusion, reduce the limit to 0mph. If the cars didnt move at all they wouldn't crash into each other.
Sounds perfectly good to me - would cut pedestrian injuries to nothing too.
@@GryphLane well, no, not quite - pedestrians bump into each other as well and that can cause injuries too. So the rule should be that no-one is allowed to move. EVER. We must all stay in our houses to prevent us getting hurt outside in public.
It is largely ignored because West Midlands police publicly stated that they would not enforce the 20mph limit.
Which is understandable because any they might issue go to central (home?) office in London rather than to WM police so it only meant extra work for them and zero benefit.
@@Teribus13 Yes, having a 50kg Granny bump in to you is exactly like being hit by a 2 tonne SUV.
@@ethelmini It depends on the speeds involved 😉
Oh dear where do I start! "The Welsh Government said"......We all believe everything politicians say don't we!. We are increasingly not living in a democracy. It will be interesting to see how this works out. I wonder how it will affect delivery vans such a DPD, parcelforce etc.
The people who don't cause accidents will slow down, those who do will ignore the new limit like they ignored the old limit.
Yes, but research suggests that the speeder will at least speed at a lower speed. Not ideal I grant you.
@@HubNut Psychology is a funny thing
@@HubNut It's a cash grab. Nothing else. Forcing people into speeding, by introducing unreasonably low speed limits, despite cars being safer and safer with better and better brakes.
2:46 - "Traffic isn't travelling at the speed limit all the time" - well, it usually does when it's moving. The 22 mph average figure includes traffic jams (0 mph) and even so the old AVERAGE is still higher than the future MAXIMUM. You can count on travel times being cca. 1.3 to 1.5 times longer. It does add up. And then the source: "Even the Welsh Government suggests in its own leaflet", as if governments would be a credible source of anything. LOL.
As for the test, let me tell you something: stopping distance will be even shorter with 10 mph, even shorter with 5 mph and the best is 0 mph... But none of those are reasonable just like 20 mph isn't reasonable.
We don't live in a democracy, the French for example don't have the illusion of it since 2005. They had a national referendum on the "European Constitution". A resounding majority said NO. What did politicians do? They renamed it "The Treaty of Lisbon" and ratified it anyway. Then they wonder why people "don't believe in democracy anymore"...
And an important correction: motorists don't just "FEEL" under attack. We ARE under attack. And if we don't organize and fight back, things will get even worse (some extremists, - such as London mayor Sadiq Khan's C40 Cities global mayors' group - go as far as planning a total phaseout of private vehicle ownership by 2030). Stockholm syndrome videos like this one certainly won't help.
@@HubNutSimply put, the researchea are wrong, they tried to implement these kinds of limits where i live utilizing said researches as one of the arguments, in the end 4 years later, there was no relevant change in speeders incidence/speed, turns out people who speed go way over anyway and the law only affected law abiding citizens, needless to say, the guy responsible didnt get re-elected and the limit went back to what it was.
@@HubNut But more people will take more risks elsewhere when they feel like they're making less progress, regardless of the actual difference. This means more people deciding not to stop for that light changing up ahead, and going slower means running it later, overtaking a cyclist closer and with less space all round like to oncoming traffic, etc, pulling out in front of other traffic when it's closer, etc.
In 1930 the UK had every single speed limit removed, nothing through towns or anything. They also had 800 fewer deaths that year. I think this is because everyone was suddenly presented with the possibility of meeting a vehicle going much faster, so everyone payed a lot more attention to every vehicle they saw or heard, and so fewer incidents occurred. Meanwhile more recent reductions in speed limits have been shown to increase the number of incidents occurring, probably from drivers becoming more complacent with the speed and paying less attention as a result.
Improving the basic quality of driving towards the 'advanced' level would do more to improve road safety than wasting money changing the numbers on a bunch of signs. Educating every road user on 'Roadcraft' techniques, and ideally making that the minimum standard to hold and retain (when renewing) a licence would dramatically reduce RTIs, even if you eliminated all speed limits again, amongst other things.
I'm Welsh, live in Wales and am appalled at this new law.
My in-laws live near Wrexham and are not happy about this and the rest of Drakeford's plans.
@@JackosJingles that’s where I live too 👍🏻
I live in South West Wales, I am waiting to see what happens, I dont think that people will stick to it but they dont stick to 30 either, I reckon that instead of people driving around at 35 in a 30 they will drive at 25/26 in a 20 instead.
@@Pete1965 Has to? No, I could move I suppose , but it’s beautiful. I guess you don’t agree 🤷♂️
@@Pete1965 I know! 👍🏻
20mph.. with my luck I’d probably get done for kerb crawling
😂
Unfortunately i feel like this will result in many more people ignoring speed limits.
That some people ignore sensible laws is no reason not to have them...
Cameras.
Surely even tho the instant emission figures might be similar at 20 or 30, surely at 20mph as the car is driving for a longer period of time as a whole the emissions will be higher.
The back of the envelope suggests that. But in most cases journey times are not affected very much, certainly less than 33% extra time spent as one would expect from a quick division
at 20mph compared to 30mph there’s much less opportunity/need for acceleration (stopping and starting) which is very much where emissions are generated at lower speeds.
Most journeys only have a short time at the lower speed - near the driver's house...
Unless they want speeders outside their own house - which they'd be the first to complain about
Time to treat yourself to an Austin 7 folks. Mind you even then your braking distance may increase!
In 1986, a Wimborne (Dorset) man was fined under the 1824 drunk whilst riding a horse law.
The "Furious riding" law dates to the 1700s and covers both horses and bicycles (after they appeared in 1886).
A study in Victoria Australia has the lowering of the speed limit from 60 km to 50 km saw more vehicles on the road in peak times which also lasted longer thus causing more congestion. It will be interesting whether you notice the same thing in a years time!
Which study was that? Maid roads and freeways, where peak hour congestion is prevalent, aren't 60. Just more vehicles on the road means more and longer congestion,
Reducing speeds would help by increasing traffic density through shorter safe stopping distances.
@@wandpj
Bring back the person who walks in front with a red flag. That's probably the next move.😀
But only if he wears a high viz.
Hmmm maybe its a new revenue stream🤔
Only if they actually enforce it...
@@HubNut If they don't enforce, what's the point in the first place?
It will probably cost more to enforce this overall, than the so called savings that the government is impLYING...
Ok - obviously the faster you go, the longer it will take to stop. I will go out when it’s quiet and check the actual distances myself on a brand new car (no disrespect to Ellie here I love 2CVs) But my opposition is this - speed is not usually the cause of most accidents. It is speed in the wrong place and driver error - also pedestrians (who in many cases are also drivers) must bear responsibility for behaving in a safe manor. I must admit in 52 years and 3,000,000 miles of driving I cannot recall ONE close shave with a pedestrian The insidious part of all this is the apparent assumption by the authorities is driving slower is driving safer. It’s NOT. Driving safely is an art, that sadly, is neither taught properly or valued by society. I am sick of it all. Let’s continue to round everybody down to the lowest common denominator.
Hear hear. You might be pleased to know there have been experiments with increasing the speed limit in some places abroad, and the accidents have gone down. Persumably this is because of a lot of factors, such as the higher speed leads to better concentration etc.
I am sure that is the case. It is the total lack of concentration and commitment to driving properly that is the problem. I see it all day every day. I live in East Sussex and the standard of road awareness around here beggars belief.
Going faster gives you more inertia that causes more damage. You can't argue with the laws of physics. When you kill a child you can take comfort in it being down to their lack of risk perception though.
A great argument for you doing 20 there. All those hazards that you have no control over.@@chrisaris8756
@@ethelmini Yes, in case you hit them to begin with. The discussion from the OP was about how sometimes higher speed can help avoid some accidents to begin with, for various reasons. Statistical data and experiments show this to be true.
This means that lower speed, on top of degrading infrastructure capabilities and sometimes enviromental downsides, can sometimes be negative from an accident perspective as well, causing more accidents.
What an absolute waste of £33m.
Many cars will need to be in a lower gear at 20mph too.
And really the action after the public consultation tells you all you need to know about how this country is just going down the toilet.
I think the driver behind this is income generation rather than safety if I'm being honest.
Government's seem to be doing everything possible to get the normal man/woman out of the car
@@andrewgurney6019absolutely, They're trying to install average speed cameras on the Rutland TT route (one of my favourite motorcycle rides) and Northamptonshire where I live has grey, unmarked camera vans usually parked behind signs/trees, ect. There will be a revoult soon.
We'll be back to having someone walk in front with a red flag soon! I know we need to be aware around pedestrians etc, but trying g to keep to 20mph is difficult, especially, as others have said, people are in your boot because they want you to go faster!
I feel the same in a 20mph zone, people are on top of you and you feel pressured into breaking the speed limit, same on smart motorways when the speed limit goes to 40mph and theres an open road in front of you , i feel like a hazard sometimes and a lot dont adhere to it, but theres speed cameras so i follow the speed limit as ive done a speed awarness course 4 months ago to avoid 3 points
Just ignore the morons stuck to your boot lid, if you have to stop quickly and they rear end you, its them that is at fault and have to take the punishment both from the law and insurance company. A 40 tonne truck is scary though when it's all that can be seen in the mirrors.
What is more likely to happen is a rise in road rage as brake checking will increase causing anger.
If they're going to drive like the end of a bell that's entirely their problem, not yours.
That's where we'll end up, back to having someone wave a flag and blow a whistle in front of the the dangerous car/van/lorry/bus while it crawls along at 4MPH so as to not endanger stupid people.
it means you do in fact use a lot more fuel, because you can't get out of third so the green argument becomes moot. In Cardiff some people are driving at 10 -15 MPH 'just in case' It drives you absolutely mad.
Not necessarily. If you're only accelerating to 20mph, you'll use less fuel than if you were accelerating to 30.
Yeh I keep hearing this how does driving slower use more fuel exactly?
@@Pete1965 well that depends on your gearing really and I don't think it makes much difference in the real world
So difficult to keep tp 20mph it's just so slow. I even think 70mph is too slow when driving a modern car.
@@sim6699 sounds like you need a slower car
Hit the nail on the head there, 'Public Consultations' are exactly as you said, just a box ticking exercise. The same has happened near where I live, a developer wants to build a huge industrial estate & rail freight terminal, between villages & right next to a nature reserve. The majority of public don't want it (and its not just a NIMBY thing) but they are trying their hardest to push it through.
Because the only people who respond are the antis...
Re diesel emissions findings. If I drive at 20mph chances are I'll need to be in 3rd gear, which means the rpm could be higher than driving at 30mph in 4th.
20 mph vs 30 mph consumes more fuel and gives more Co2 emissions, which were deemed as important by many not long ago, for just about every ICE vehicle on the road. Those are indeed the facts.
Couldve been easily sorted by timed speed limits ie during day 20mph and 30mph at night like most places do
So other Road users don’t get injured at night?
this is only done for noise pollution
Most places? Where? There are very few variable speed limits in the UK.
The problem i find is when i am in a 20 zone normally have someone coming up behind me doing more then sit on my backside or there overtake me even when doing the limit
Let them go.
@@HubNut normally do
This isn't an issue exclusive to 20 zones, it happens to me in every kind of speed limit. E.g. doing 59mph in a 60 limit and someone in a "premium German" car will tailgate, then overtake at enormous speed as we both approach a blind bend and/or the brow of a hill.
@Zeem4 just had something like that happened to me was doing 40 in a 40 and got over taken by someone doing about 60 or 70
Funny how when 53% of people want to leave the EU "the public has spoken" and when 53% want to keep the speed limit at 30 the govt. knows better. That said I've been dealing with the proliferation of 20 limits in London and honestly it hasn't made a difference to my journey times. Another side effect has been the amount of delivery drivers switching from scooters to e-bikes as if the limit's 20, why pay more for a bike that'll do 30.
A large majority of voters would like a return of the death penalty for a very small number of crimes in cases where there was 100% proof of guilt.
You got to admit there is a vast difference in scope and execution of public involvment between "brexit" and this, though....
I bet they asked 7 cyclists to every 4 motorists. Thing about these opinion polls the results are all a lie as they are targeted to agenda. It's like if they were doing a poll on if veganism is on the rise. They would go to a vegan restaurant get the opinion at that location then ask a few in the street to balance it out.
You seemed to have missed the point genius .. we had a vote on Brexit and the government stuck to that vote .. we haven't had a vote on this , while we should have.
@@Richie5903 Just curious, since when have the public ever had a vote on road traffic laws? To my knowledge that has never happened so I don't understand why you think this would be any different.
Hi Ian, I completely agree that there is little or no democracy in the UK. However, there is also little or no democracy in Greece. Amazingly, Greece was where democracy was invented. Any political party who guarantees a return to democracy will get my vote at the next general election. Sadly I feel that's not going to happen.
It was in the manifesto, and they won the election. That is how democracy works.
Would have been better to get people to actually do the 30. Maybe that's the thinking. Lowering it to 20 people might actually do 30
Sadly, I suspect there is an element of that. I agree more enforcement of existing rules might be a better idea, but there are definitely places where 20mph is a good idea.
@@HubNut there's several 20 zones where I live and it certainly feels safer. It feels a bloody awkward and inefficient speed to maintain though. We'll get used to it I suppose. I'm all for safer roads for all users though.
20mph does have its place, but only in certain areas. it's the blanket approach that's at fault here. Maybe 30mph (the only round number that sort of fits) and no parking on arterial and ring roads, then 20mph near schools and in residential areas where parking is allowed? Discuss.
Our school zones here are 20mph. I had till a few years ago a subaru justy cvt where 20 was a "shift" point and it couldn't deal with it unless it was in low. Older cars may have issues with it
Interesting video Ian. Up here in the Scottish Highlands we've recently had most of the towns and villages changed to 20mph too.
In Belgium there is a 18,64mph (30km/hour) speedlimit in city centres and in the neighbourhood of schools…
Yes, increasingly common across Europe.
Yup it's not exactly a new concept and the benefits are well proven, unfortunately a lot of the whiners have never travelled any further than their own echo chambers
@@nstarmore And, to be fair, a subset of people who oppose it because they feel the benefits arent worth the drawbacks. Perhaps even outnumbering those "whiners"?
1864mph is a little bit faster than 30kph
You stated that it isn't about emissions and yet some members of the sennedd have stated it will "help save the planet".
The issue is that if like me you live in cardiff, commuting to work has become a 3rd gear nightmare. People are afraid to go above 20 and are cruising around at 17 and sometimes 15mph which is just ridiculous and being overtaken by e-bikes and derestricted scooters is actually causing a lot of drivers to become very peed off!
Schools i am all for the 20mph, but everywhere else is just not needed.
I suppose an e-bike _is_ less polluting for a single commuter than a car
@@kaitlyn__L quite possibly but if one of these hits a child doing over 20mph then the results can be just as severe.
@@theythinkitsallrover8106 true! Part of me wonders if these highway code changes are also just preempting wider electrification, where speed correlates more linearly with energy consumption rather than having a sweet spot like gearboxes do. Accepting maybe a bit more fuel consumption in the short term for the collision casualty reduction, knowing that’ll only be temporary?
@@kaitlyn__L Electric cars are temporary.
When our urban speed limits dropped from 60 kmh to 50 and 40 in shopping areas, 2 things became apparent: Speeders who ignore limits are now going faster than the average and the expected and two, pedestrians became more complacent.
These laws are always insane, coming straight from imcompetent politicians.
They`re trying to piss drivers off into stopping driving.
Last week I had the misfortune in the evening of driving through one of the London Boroughs with a blanket 20 mph including my return journey at midnight. We already have most back streets cut off forcing all traffic onto the Main Roads which become heavily congested(Pollution, anyone? ) 24 HOUR Bus Lanes(even after midnight when no buses)then frequent Yellow boxes on the ground to fine you when they are not always visible in advance. Permit parking only for residents.Parking Metres., Tolls.Congestion Charge.LEX and ULEZ charge and now AFTER MIDNIGHT on a quiet road with little traffic a farcical 20mph limit on roads which used to be 30 or 40mph in some instances.
4:40 I love how much it bounces. 2cv suspension system never disappoints.
I thought the camera would be safe, then I saw it nosedive in the 20mph test and feared for the camera's life at 30 😂
I live in the Netherlands in a neighborhood where the limit is 30 km/h (18.6 mph), it often seems like a Formula 1 circuit.
The amount of abuse i get trying to keep to the 20s we currently have is crazy.
Housing estates and around schools yes should be 20 on the occasions i have a day of work and take my kids to school there are way too many people in too much of a rush.
Even with one of my children in a wheelchair they do not slow down
Much of the worst driving is around schools....
Inconsiderate parking, leaving cars running belching fumes
Oh gawwd, the school run. I pity anyone who is forced into that rat race. Especially these days with gargantuan SUVs, distracted mobile phone drivers, and now 20mph limits. Good luck out there!
Butterfly: “You can’t park there mate”
It's interesting how each local authority has treated the exemptions differently. I expect a lot of reviews. Locally we have a wide straight flat (Welsh definition of flat) road, good visibility, no shops, no schools, going down to 20mph not being exempted, which seems not thought through?
Oh they thought it through alright. That stretch of road will make a handy speed trap for increased enforcement patrols.
Almost all residential areas in Ceredigion will be 20mph. There won't be many, even very small villages, that won't be limited to the new speed. My MG6 will use 30% more fuel at 20mph, I've tested it. Yes, I agree that it will save lives but will degrade air quality. It will cost me more to drive especially as I can only use E5 fuel. I have found that 2nd gear will be my default in 20mph as there are so many inclines around here. Trying to keep to the limit will be very difficult for many including me due to the weight and power of the vehicle.
You are lucky if you have many unchanged speed limits in your area. We don't here in Ceredigion.
New Quay will still have some 30mph. Aberaeron will still have some 30mph. Can't say for Aberystwyth. Llanon should be 20mph anyway. Even that is sometimes a challenge.
Did you test repeatedly accelerating to and braking from lower speeds too? I can almost double my mpg by careful driving at around 20mph. I've got over 70mpg out of a 1.0L petrol engine.
Up here in the Cambrian Mountains, I was only getting a monthly average of 37 mpg before the change to 20 mph limits. That was by being very light on the accelerator. @@ethelmini
The strange thing around here is that some of the larger populations are still limited to 30 mph while my village, a population of 70, has a 20 limit. Driving through Aberystwyth today took 10 minutes more, with the traffic flowing well. I'll have to modify my days to get to my clients on time.@@HubNut
We will be going back to the days when someone with a red flag would walk in front of the vehicles. The pleasure of driving has been ruined by political idiots and councillors who have not a clue. Not everyone drives like idiots
You should see the restrictions in Inner and,to a lesser extent, Outer London. Last week I had the misfortune in the evening of driving through one of the London Boroughs with a blanket 20 mph including my return journey at midnight. We already have most back streets cut off forcing all traffic onto the Main Roads which become heavily congested(Pollution, anyone? ) 24 HOUR Bus Lanes(even after midnight when no buses)then frequent Yellow boxes on the ground to fine you when they are not always visible in advance. Permit parking only for residents.Parking Metres., Tolls.Congestion Charge.LEX and ULEZ charge and now AFTER MIDNIGHT on a quiet road with little traffic a farcical 20mph limit on roads that used to be 30 or 40mph in some instances.
A 20mph limit is sensible for residential back streets but silly for urban thoroughfares as there was nothing wrong with 30mph on those roads.
Very good illustration, and a balanced assessment of the situation too. Top marks! 😁
I live near to a school so the speed limit in my neighborhood is a whopping 15 (not that I mind as I tend to drive a little slower as the car warms up). On most other residential streets the limit is 25mph here in the US. That said, getting hit by a Chevy Suburban at 25mph is still going do a good deal of damage
You may want to check your vehicle handbook as car makers advise driving normally for most economical and mechanically sympathetic warmup. Idling and driving very gently will needlessly prolong the warmup and cause increased moisture condensate in the engine and exhaust.
The Cambridgeshire village i live in, has been a rat run for many years. Rush hour can be a nightmare. we recently changed the speed limit to 20, and it has massively reduced the traffic passing through. The reason is sat-navs. Before, the algorithm worked out that it was quicker to do 30 through the village, than 60 around the village. But, the reducing the limit to 20 has changed that, now its quicker to go around. a definite improvement. I only hope the village shop doesn't suffer too much from the drop in passing trade.
I tend to think passing trade is rather inflated in discourse, while a handful of shops may rely on it I have a hard time believing all local shops do - many motorists could spend another 5-15 minutes getting to a superstore after all.
A well researched and presented video Ian, digs through a lot of the lies and misinformation out there. As someone who lives in a test zone (Cardiff) I can vouch that the 20 zones are sensible with lots of roads remaining 30. People need to give it a chance before getting all argumentative about it. There will always be drivers who will rally against any changes but this one is for a valid reason.
Yes, I’m amazed how many people have declared them a failure after just a couple days. When people were saying the same about changing widespread 40 zones to 30, ~20 years ago. Within a year everyone got used to it.
Could always educate people to take responsibility for themselves and cross roads safely.
Despite many such campaigns, young children will still occasionally run out into traffic, or car drivers will be so distracted by their sodding phone that they're not paying attention...
@@HubNut I’m all for lower speed limits near schools or housing estates but I think commuter roads should be 40s no one sticks to 30s
@@HubNutwhat about the children with mobile phones and headphones on not paying attention. It's swings and roundabouts. You will always have idiots whos brains ain't wired up right and think they are beyond reproach
@@HubNut Let's be realistic, high school kids deliberately goad drivers. My job means I'm always driving around the city. I pass dozens of schools every day and a large number of kids are totally irresponsible. They just step out expecting cars to stop or alter their speed, they cross on junctions and in between parked pars, they can't be arsed to walk 100 yards to the zebra crossing, they play chicken with traffic and they are glued to their phones. But apparently its all my fault because I'm driving a car.
Sure, kids are idiots, but at the end of the day if you hit one it's you that will see it haooening again when you close your eyes at night. No point taking the moral high ground and killing someone for making a stupid mistake, especially when they're kids undergoing the whole process of Learning How To Not Make Stupid Mistakes...
Good video! The demo is very convincing even though you didn't even factor in 'reaction time': by the same reaction time of lets say 0.1sec the car travels quite a bit further at 30mph then it would doing only 20mph. That difference needs to also be factored in. During the reaction time of 0.1sec the car still keeps on rolling at 30mph and it will travel 1.3411meters!
At 20mph the car would travel 0.8940meters during that 0.1sec reaction time.
(Bing chat calculated that for me. AI for the win.😉)
As for the speed reduction: i'm Dutch and in the Netherlands we had this speed reduction already 10 or more years ago. They only apply in busy city streets and urban residential area's, near schools and such. Our Vmax is 30km/h , slightly under 20mph.
You get used to it quite quickly and traffic will get noticeably bit LESS STRESSFUL where it really matters.
And yes, accident casualties will in fact go down substantially. So don't worry to much about it, It'll be OK.
0.1sec reaction time, are you a Ninja? Thinking time + moving from acc pedal to brake pedal, the Queensland govt says around 1.5 seconds for this.
Having worked in the Netherlands for a number of years and driven there I can confirm the Dutch driving is terrible in any weather other than a clear sunny day as such your opinion doesn't really count , also the majority of people in Noord Holland cycle and use public transport 🤷🏻♂️
Where I live a 30 km/h = 18.6 mph limit is the norm in residential streets, the first 30 km zones appeared 40 years ago. On residential through roads it is 50 km/h (31.1 mph) or 70 km/h (43.5 mph). No one here takes offence of the 30 km limit, because it is makes traffic safer and time lost compared to 50 km/h is negligible.
I find Dutch motorists are generally quite laid back and friendly. Unless on a motorway... 😉
@@HubNut We're allowed to do 80 mph on rural motorways after 7 pm and the police won't take your license if you stay under 112 mph 😇 (though fines are pretty hefty)
Here in Leicester a number of urban side streets have a 20mph limit imposed. From experience in our street this is the minimum default speed, with a number of cars seemingly driving at 40-50mph.
Our nearby town Barnard Castle has had 20 MPH zones for quite a while, mainly on the back streets, you just get used to it
20mph on urban back streets are fine - more often than not people run at that sort of speed even if it's technically a 30mph limit. But try it on more major roads - we have a 1 mile stretch locally of 4-lane major trunk road that has just been made 20mph. For much of that distance there are no road junctions and there's a long length of six-foot high railings against a public park with no pedestrian access; there's a wide pavement both sides which hardly anyone uses...
Needs to be 20 as people drive in this area to test their eyesight
@@ajpdaniels famously far more reliable than a letter chart!
Driving in Kyushu, Japan earlier this year which is rural like Wales. For anyone who knows Pembrokeshire, the road between Haverfordwest & Fishguard would be 50kph. The town's; 30kph. Instead of buying enormous Wankpanzer's, most Japanese buy suitable cars for this environment.
This x1000
Love the vehicle terminology!😂. I like my wankpanzer!😂
This is the main issue with driving in the UK. Everyone and their mums seems to be going out and deliberately buying the biggest most padded land boat with the highest grille imaginable which causes more congestion, damages our roads more and causes more accidents because the people who drive them can't see over their massive dashboards and pillars.
@@JamesChurchill3 I'm hoping the next step will be taxing the crap out of oversized vehicles, although manufacturers aren't helping this by reducing the pool of options for smaller cars at an alarming rate.
It would be good if kei cars were sold in the UK. You see how popular the original Smarts were compared with their bloated replacements.
I'm honestly impressed that the stopping distances were that short at both speeds especially in a 2CV! I think the main thing here is taking away widely accepted and long standing rights that has riled people up. Lets face it 20mph is painfully slow on roads and conditions that can facilitate 30 especially when you are used to doing 30mph. I really don't think this will make any difference to how most people drive, even if it does I doubt it will make much difference to injuries and fatalities. I've been rear ended on a motorcycle by vehicles slowing down from around 20 and 40 mph and I can tell you they both hurt equally!
You'd make a great government spin doctor. Using a car designed in the 1940s to demonstrate braking speeds is a cracker! 🤣
I recently was working in Cardiff, I could not believe how many 20 mph limits there was compared to the standard 30 mph. I can understand doing this directly outside schools or shopping precincts where there is larger quantities of people crossing roads, but not everywhere on housing estates where roads are still fairly wide. As far as fuel burning and emissions is concerned what the statistics don’t tell you , is that modern cars are so high geared that you would drop down a gear at 20 mph compared to 30 mph , so making the slower speed completely irrelevant.
Had it in the borders here in Scotland for a while as trial and now permanent, I do worry about the democratic side of these matters, but having got used to it and the council having re-considered some and adjusted back to 30 it’s not so bad, what’s infuriating is people sitting on your rear end, and in one case thrusting of arms was witnessed as if to say faster, when sticking to the new limit. Be prepared for those who disagree and actively ignore doesn’t help that it doesn’t appear to be enforced in any way.
I agree, having got used to them here, I find it easy, and not a delay really. One gear lower and it feels pretty natural after so many years of 30mph normality. I've recently been overtaken in the middle of Dumfries, in the 20 limited area that takes in the centre of town. I waited behind the driver in question at 2 sets of traffic lights after the overtake so can confidently say it didn't save then any time overall.
@@jncg2311 I wonder if these people, when you catch up with them, feel stupid/guilty or as I suspect just continue to barge their way through life.
The Borders case was hugely undemocratic. It was brought in as "a trial" but then was made permanent despite majority opposition. Anyone with eyes could see the consultation in the Borders was a sham.
@@robc5955 as someone who occasionally performs safe and legal overtakes of questionable usefulness -- yeah, it feels pretty dumb if it doesn't work out in terms of saving any time. It's still worth it if there is a chance that I'll catch a green light, but if it's plainly obvious that there's no chance of it, I don't bother.
I love in the borders too, glad to see it more reasonable now.
SBC did get lots of complaints about thier drivers going above the limit they set. I do work night shift so 20mph to be safe when everyone is in bed at 3am is a bit insane,
I live in a 20 zone with a primary school and speed bumps but it's often used as a rat run and it's never really safe,
amazing that the average speed is actually less than the posted limit....here in Miami FL I would say it is 5 to 10 over!!! perhaps the insane 24 hr traffic volume.
Yeah, congestion definitely brings the average speed down in our cities, as do endless streams of traffic lights. I generally avoid cities at all costs.
@@HubNut 17km/h (10mph) average in Dublin at peak times. Many routes now have a 30km/h limit. There was a similarly ignored public consultation about that as well.
I've seen that advert about a kid saying ''If you hit me at 30mph there's an 80% i'll live'' but the worst thing is that you can still die from being hit by a bike 20mph as you don't have a bonnet to bounce off at if you get hit by a car at the same speed.
Here in west wales a lot of 30mph signs are still up, no 20mph signs. What is the speed limit?
If the sign says 30, the limit is 30. Even if they planned for it to be 20, it must be signed at the point of entry.
As I frequent North Wales with work, since this 20 MPH was so stupidly introduced without any thought of what impact this will have, agree on areas near schools, shops and where people live is good but we already have this in place, what infuriates me is that one road was 30MPH, it's around 2 miles long and is in the middle of rolling fields, no houses,shops or schools in fact the only life is a field full of sheep, this is now 20 MPH, but if you come the other way it's 30🙄 The idiot who runs Wales needs removing for introducing this as it's dangerous, and will not make anything safer or better it's just another nail in the coffin for motorists. And to cap it off road on the outskirts of LLay Nr Wrexham is set to 50 MPH, you then approach a slight bend and without any warning 20 MPH, yes people hitting the breaks and when the bad weather is upon us this there will be multiple pile ups injuring people, and this is safe is it.
Ian you Citroen whilst doing your break test is as far away from the real data on modern cars with much better breaking systems. my car would out break yours if you were doing 20 and I was doing 30, fact is in real world driving 20 is taking a lot longer to get from A to B than at 30, I drive every day and notice a big difference, this isn't helping as most folk don't now have a clue on what speed they are suppose to be doing and is causing havoc.
Your views are so sided with your Leaders views is sickening, he doesn't drive, he has no clue on living in the real world, same as when he put the lovely Welsh people through hell with all his stupid Covid rules, wake up and smell the coffee will you, your being taken on a bid ride of lies.
Sorry Ian The majority of cars will have to go from third to second gear to maintain 20mph (this is something the people who say slower speed less fuel refuse to mention) having done steady state fuel consumption tests myself this will result in a 10 to 20 percent increase in fuel consumption. Most cars have instant fuel consumption read out so it's easy to check this out yourself on a slight incline using cruise control . A no doubt intended side effect is a large increase in fuel tax revenue.
I don't deny that, but how often do you actually get to drive at a constant speed in a city? It tends to be very stop start, so not accelerating up to 30 repeatedly will save fuel.
@@HubNut the problem is the Welsh labour party have instigated this 20mph limit not just in cities but in towns and villages where most traffic flowed perfectly well at 30 🤷🏻♂️
@@HubNut Exactly, so many commenters do not understand the concept of the energy required to accelerate a ton and a half of vehicle from rest
My little hyundai i10 runs happily at 20mph in 3rd gear al the way through the 20 limit section at Whickam near Gateshead on a whiff of throttle.
Unfortunately these low speed limits lead to distraction, you have to constantly check your speed; I know you would at any speed, but my vehicles all have limiters that cannot be set below 50km/h or roughly 28mph.
Some of the earlier cities to lower 30 mph zones to 20 mph in the UK had studies show that the number of road traffic incidents actually increased from before the lowering of the limit, yet they still insist it's for road safety. The best way to prevent deaths and injuries on the road is to work to eliminate the incidents, not increase their number. Being xx% less likely to be killed in a collision isn't much use if your chances of being involved in a collision goes up by xx% at the same time. Road death statistics also don't show how many people's lives are still ruined by serious injuries, and no one mentions the element from war that injuries cost more than deaths, hence the invention of grenades, etc, designed to maim not kill.
Feel that 30mph cam upskirted Ellie; there's a law against that😮
Oh deer ! looking up Ellie's under carriage🤣🤣
The 90s now feels much better times
Its a GREAT cash cow. That's about it. Here in Victoria the multiple changes and reductions in speed limits are insane. Brutally enforced. Unlike any of the crazy things that cause accidents every day. You can literally weave from side to side and as long as you don't exceed the artificially low limits you'll be fine.
it's not a cash cow if you obey the law
It is not a cash cow for our local police forces in the UK because fines are paid to central government, not the local force.
20 mile zones merely increase their work load which is why our local force put out a statement that they would not enforce 20 mph limits because they simply have not got the manpower to do so.
Here in Singapore, our default speed limit unless otherwise indicated is 50kph/~30mph. Almost all the areas where this applies are built-up zones with frequent junctions, lights and crossings. I can state from experience that even so, German marques and private hire drivers alike will be right up your arse if you insist on driving within the limit. I cannot begin to imagine the rage that would ensue if tomorrow we were limited to 30kph/~20mph, even if the econometer on my car would be happy :)
When you increase your speed by a quarter, your braking distance doubles. Do you have courses to teach this to people in practice? In Finland, we do. It's harrowing to do 50 kph and slam into a mannequin you avoided with distance to spare doing 40 kph.
We don't. We just have some meaningless numbers quoted in the Highway Code, that haven't been updated for decades.
Yeah, energy equals mass times the squared-velocity. Assuming the exact same car, at 20mph it will have a little under half the kinetic energy as at 30mph (20^2=400, 30^2=900) and a quarter the energy of going at 40mph (40^2=1600). This is the same magnitude of difference to casualties when a collision does even occur, as the change from 40mph to 30mph was. And of course collisions are less likely to boot.
I can just HEAR engines screaming in first gear trying to go that slow. the US equivalent to this is 25, and people gripe about that pretty hard. We also have quite a few 15s (one of those is UPHILL!)
Really? The car I learned to drive in couldn’t go much more than 10mph in first gear. I would dread to think about pushing it as far as 20! But then, engines here tend to be smaller than in the US. Another argument for appropriate sizing to the task at hand I suppose.
@@kaitlyn__L US engines post-fifties are still rigged for Motorway sustained speeds AND automatics (most of our manuals are relegated to the bare bones type of cars, here, or sport /performance types). only lorries aren't screaming their heads off in first at those speeds. unless the pistons are the size of a Kilo coffee can, they really holler even at only 2000 RPM, even in second or third.
@@anonymuswere that’s part of what I don’t entirely get, even a 1L turbo can handle 70mph in top gear without getting anywhere near the red line. So I could understand wanting a little more capacity to reduce the revs a little (1.5-2L), but then I see Americans saying even 2L or 2.5L is tiny…
I know yous often do 80 or 90 on motorways, instead of 70, but I struggle to see a 2L engine having issues with that! 1.5L VW Golfs certainly manage 100-120mph on unrestricted autobahn sections.
I guess maybe you mean sized for motorway speeds at, like… not the top gear? To get a bit better mileage? But then you’re NEVER using the top end of your car’s capabilities ever, and the low end is massively oversized! (In which case having a minimum speed of 30mph in 1st gear is understandable, but still a ridiculous outcome imo)
@@kaitlyn__L American cars are also sporting at least 500 lbs of Safety crash braces, airbags, safety electronics, etc, plus petrol tanks in the 18-30+ US Gallon (3.8 liters) range (which rarely gets filled up...our petrol may be cheaper, but it's basement bargain grade). add in "emissions strangled" engines that have been detuned into oblivion in our remaining saloons, and the fact we're tuned for torque over power (probably all these damn hills), and you can see why they'd be screaming.
a unique point I saw was that US transmissions are rigged for their economy peaks at 35 and 65 MPH and only Motorways can get that 65 economy peak...over hours of driving. regular in-town driving has me doing no more than 25 MPH on average because of stoplights, intersections, and inevitable traffic, even in the boonies.
american engines seem to be happiest at barely 1500 RPM
My (70bhp) 2005 Citroen Dispatch van is as smooth as a Mr. Whippy in 4th at 20mph and fifth at 28mph. Happy days!
We were planning on holidaying next year in Wales, I love Wales but we've decided to spend 2 weeks in Scotland instead.. The idiocy of this is unbelievable, not to mention the damage to the economy..
You're aware that Scotland has 20mph zones as well, yes? Still plenty of 50 and 60mph roads in Wales.
Take the train next time.
I feel the discussion regarding the 'about a car's length' difference in stopping distance between 30 and 20mph hasn't included how fast the car will be going for that last car's length. It isn't going to be as simplistic as squished or not squished, since if it's at 0 a car length later, it's going to be significantly less than automatically squished 4-5m earlier. An impact isn't automatically equal to squished.
What does your squishometer say if there's no braking at all?
The difference between 20 & 30mph is the slowing from 30 to 20mph.
Well, there is one road near-ish to where I live. It's uphill, very windy and has a lot of blind corners. The speed limit is 80km/h (in some places it's 100km/h) and every time I go up there (about 3 - 4 times per year) I always see people exceeding it. Also, there are a lot of towns and once you see the sign with the towns name on it (some of the towns in the 80 zone are Birdwood and Gumeracha, some of the towns in the 100 zone are Mt. Pleasant and Springton) you have to slow down to 50km/h. What makes that annoying is that there is always at least one person right up your ass. There is also one intersection that is covered with skidmarks. WHAT A HAZARD!!
On 20 roads where I live in Scotland , no one sticks to 20 , and that includes Police cars on non emergency , buses , taxi , delivery drivers , hgv vehicles , motorcycles , etc etc , when I try sticking to 20 it always ends up being tailgated , honked at to move faster . more enforcement of 30 rather than an almost blanket of 20 mph roads would bring better results and prob more income to local councils 🤣
Another good video Ian. Can't deny the sentiments of the new ruling but the lack of consultation is a real issue and this is not the only controversial issue with Welsh Government. On the practical side I live in Swansea, which is rather hilly, so I will be affected more by the 20mph limit and what bothers me is I am likely to be changing between 2nd and 3rd gears more or have the car labouring in 3rd or revving fast in 2nd.
I preferred a dual clutch automatic for stop and go traffic anyway, but this will be another reason - not only for it doing the switching logic for you, possibly more often than you ever could do yourself, but there’s also usually 7, 8, or 9 gears to pick between instead of just 5.
Sentiment? Don't kid yourself. This is all about raising millions in revenue via speeding tickets.
If you cant handle using the clutch get an auto....
Excellent points raised. I live in an area that is very much urban but opens out into quick(iish) B roads. I'm very happy to go slowly around where the young families are. We've all had that moment where a football goes across the road and it's closely followed by a kid running out, I'm sure many of us have really stamped on the brakes in that situation.
I'm very happy to pootle along at 15 mph or less in these areas. I couldn't speak for the implications of pollution, I don't know enough about the implications of traveling slowly, but it makes sense to have enough room to stop.
My engine spins faster in a lower gear at 20mph and I'm in the area for longer as a result. How does this not put out more emissions?
Always important to have the colour of your trainers, match the colour of your car!🙌🏻😄
The 20mph limit where I live has failed miserably as no one takes a blind bit of notice, curious to know how much it would have cost to get all the signage installed and the paint on roads etc!!
And I wonder where all the cameras are to help enforce limit
the 20mph limit has not failed, the authorities have failed to enforce the limit.
@@dizzy2020Wales also has some of the most unhelpful road signage I've ever seen.
@@dizzy2020 I went to Aberystwyth uni. Any society meeting was unbearable for the same reasons.
If there is a controversy, why not reach a happy medium of 25mph?
It’s mainly about their plan to drastically reduce car use.
Living in Edinburgh, where many of the roads are 20 MPH limited and have been since 2018, I'd make these observations. It has reduced the overall speed of traffic, however depending on the particular street I think it varies. In residential areas I totally support it. There other through roads, which are signposted 20, but honestly, if someone is doing 20 it feels like something is up. 25, and folks are keeping up with the general flow. So, I often wonder if before the 20 zones, was the "average" traffic doing 35? And is this the actual point? To be honest, I have a bigger issue with dueled roads with a 40 limit, of which there are a few in Edinburgh and I think that makes little sense, and almost no one observes the limit, so what is the point?
Jave they enforced those 20mph limits over the last 5 years,my friend?
Trying to Drive at 20 MPH is Ridiculous !!! and Dangerous .
It really isn't.
Thank you for the balanced discussion. Unfortunately we live in a world of uberhyperbole. "AARRGGH THIS IS LIKE STALINISM" or "CIVILISATION IS COLLAPSING AROUND OUR EARS".
I believe it's not the safety aspect of the new legislation that's of concern, but the high-handed dismissal of the Democratic process. Certainly, the public consultation for ULEZ in London was a complete sham, the results dismissed by the leadership of the GLA.
The 20 MPH limit may be a sensible solution to a serious problem, but it has been done in a way that creates division between the two opinions.
How much is it going to cost to replace the signs?
£33m apparently.
Money which could have been better spent on the abysmal Welsh NHS. FYI, I've sampled it first hand. When I was living in Acrefair. We have a 20mph limit where I now live in Cheshire I'm sure my wife and I are some of the very few people who keep to that limit. The TD4 Freelander we did have didn't like 20mph at all and we were constantly having to switch between 1st and 2nd. Thanks for the reply I've seen several figures relating to the cost.
Recently more bizarre to me is the fact on Welsh main roads (60 mph) they've put a 30mph speed limit upon immediately entering an island and a national speed limit immediately exiting the island, its impossible to do 30 around an island so why?