20mph Speed Limit | MORE Accidents? We Raise Serious Concerns. Car Drivers | Motorcycles | Wales UK
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- Опубликовано: 5 окт 2023
- Wales has introduced a nationwide 20 mph speed limit in all urban areas, from villages to cities! This has not gone down very well, and is cited as having been implemented for Safety Reasons, however, we raise some hitherto undiscussed points that may turn the restrictions on their head (they probably won't because the gov's are massive control freaks!).
This is very likely to be brought into England (although they are currently saying it won't, because of the impending general election, but no doubt it will after that!).
We also talk about the speed limit reductions on other Welsh roads from 60 or 50 to 40 mph.
So, whether you are a car driver, a motorcyclist, a horse rider or a cyclist (lucky for you that you don't need to abide by the speed limit!), or a pedestrian, we want to hear what you think, after you have watched the video.
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I trained years ago with Avon and Somerset police to become an advanced instructor with a motorcycle training scheme. I got a chance to go out with an instructor in a car during the course. After my drive on the debrief I was asked why I kept looking at the speedo. Typically I said I was trying to stay within the limit. He then asked me if I thought I was driving at a safe speed for the conditions around me through the drive. I said I was confident I hadn't put myself or anyone else in any danger. His answer shocked me because I hadn't seen a child step off a pavement whole iwas looking at the speedo. His answer was that he felt I never presented any risk from the wrong speed when I was looking at the road. I met the guy recently and we had a discussion about this and he said how times have changed and people are being penalised for minor infringements because they are looking at what's around them but the presence of cameras catches them out when they're speed is not unsafe but technically they are a little over the limit. This seems a mad situation. I wonder why the govt isn't in favour of vehicle speed limiters, which, with modern vehicle technology makes is totally possible? Could it be lack of revenue from cameras.........
This is by far the best answer on this post, and 100% right
Up here in Gwynedd the revenue from cameras argument is rubbish. Revenue though….
The costs of dealing with the RTCs up here is insane so yes it’s all about revenue. Trying to create a culture where there’s less RTCs saves far more than the cameras can. There’s no fixed cameras and as for vans. They’re not going to bring in any significant amount compared to the costs. It’s just a myth
yea bro we don't want vehicle speed limiters lol....
What a blanket 20mph will give. (1)Tourism and holiday booking down and / or cancelled = Lack of tourism income. (2) Increased costs to delivery firms. (3) Increased fuel consumption to cater for lower gear usage, also means increased pollution. (4) Increase of bad driving due to lack of attention other than looking at speedometer. (5) Imposed on population by dictatorship giving false information on the justification of the speed limit drop. (6) I can see accidents increasing due to folk watching dashboard more and not watching the road. (7) Nothing more than a money making scam and to get rid of private car / motorcycle usage.
💯
Indeed. Add increased noise pollution to the list, too. Most car engines will be revving higher at 20mph in third gear than they do at 30mph in fourth or fifth gear.
Oh for some common sense to return 🙏
Perfect bike for it the Meteor approaching its top speed😂
Politicians do not have common sense they only think about one thing and that’s how to remove you from your money.
Hi lads. I'm sorry but I think you have completely missed the point on this new reduced speed limit legislation. It is not for the safety of the general population, its too make driving or riding so unattractive that you give up your personal transport. That is a stated aim of the WEF, that most world Governments are enthralled too. Trudy Harrison the MP and previous Minister of State for Transport said that "personal transport is outdated 20th century thinking and will become a thing of the past"
That is the real reason for much of the war against the motorist.
You absolute mug. Fallen for the WEF conspiracy!
exactly it is about control and they want you to stay home they will have everything and you will have zero zilch nothing
She said: said the country needs to move away from “20th century thinking centred around private vehicle ownership” and introduce “greater flexibility, with personal choice and low carbon shared transport”. Where does 'personal choice' fit in?
In the future rhe people will own nothing and they'll love it...........apparently.
@@stuartdownie3704 I can’t wait! Take my stuff now✅
Part of the reasoning behind lowering the speed limit was to lower vehicle emissions. However this is also deeply flawed, as motor vehicles will spend more time with the engine running, and in many cases having to use a lower year which means higher revs.
@@somersetbiker Not really!
This video outlines the very reasons why these speed limits are flawed, and like ULEZ and the '15 minute towns' must be fought against and stopped with immediate effect.
and now on the road 50% longer.
@@Bradburger Absolutely. And also CORRUPTION is rife these days and Freemasons, Police, DVLA, Council Bureautwats etc plus those who KNOW a Freemason etc will get themselves off the charges. Leaving the poor sods with high blood pressure to pay the bill. No wonder there's been an increase in mindless vandalism. I can see there being a few museums, cathederals and old trees being burned or chopped down!
@@somersetbikerMost places have all we need within 10 - 15 minutes or locally already including food shop, general hardware shops, building yards mechanical garages etc. So what's with the 15 minute cities.
@@somersetbiker How often do we do a consistent speed in a built up area? My bike will probably do 20mph in 2nd happily, which would tally with the emissions argument. In my current car the choice would be revving the nuts off it in 2nd or lugging the engine in 3rd. Not so good either way. My previous car was an auto, which I imagine would just spend the entire time switching gears. I’m honestly not convinced the argument in favour of emissions stands real world scrutiny.
Nobody outside of a small conclave of activists wanted it or asked for it. The same thing is now happening in The Wirral whereby authorities are attempting to sneak it in by way of next to no meaningful public consultation while dubiously citing an extremely limited scope analysis conducted in one small area of the country as being a valid basis to justify it.
Make no mistake, this will be coming to many more areas within the UK if the public don't take a stand. As we've seen with Wales and also with ULEZ in Greater London the politicians will implement such measures regardless of public opinion.
The brains behind this ridiculous 20 MPH is supposedly retiring at the end of the year. As they have spent £millions implementing this you can bet your sweet life his successor will not be changing it. We live out in the sticks with not much around us except a few houses, lots of trees, stupid pheasants and, of course, sheep, and right in front of my home is a 20MPH. Do they think the trees are going to jump in front of moving vehicles? Saying that, sheep are not stupid if there is a way out of a field they will find it. It’s the pheasants that we are more likely to see walking up the road or stepping in front of a vehicle. Oh! 😮The penny has just dropped 20MPH because of stupid pheasants! The mind boggles.
Funny thing is, the most serious injury I have had in over 50 years of riding, was caused recently from an accident at less than 20mph. Momentary loss of concentration on road conditions caused by concentrating on confusing road signs to ensure I didn’t get fined. Still nursing numerous broken bones - thanks Legislators.
Here in Australia they have introduced some ridiculous speed limits in some places,,,, trick is to ignore the limits if they seem overkill and keep an eye out for the revenue raisers 👍
We’ve had the 20 mph in Fife for a good few years now and believe me it doesn’t make any difference, very few people pay any attention to them, the still do 30+. Love your programs .👍
Same here in the Scottish Borders, even the police don’t stick to, or really enforce the 20 limit. Don’t think that englandshire is getting off scotfree either, just wait until after the next general election in late 2024.
Personally I’m more concerned about uk government looking at ‘possibly’ reducing motorway limits to 60 with the resulting knock on effect on national speed limit.
None of which has anything to do with road safety or even eco crap. It’s all ultimately about control for when the real shit hits the fan.
That is the answer just drive normally and ignore the 20mph limit
@@brianmays4366 the danger is that people lose all faith in speed limits and break the limits everywhere. What we need is reasonable speed limits in reasonable places.
Hi guys. Just recently come back from visiting my brother who is in a nursing home in Llandovery. Went on the Classic 350 and had to travel through numerous towns at 20mph. I felt more vulnerable than ever as car drivers were coming up really close behind me and I found myself pulling over on several occasions just to feel safe as they then sped past me ignoring the limit as Darcy mentioned. So yes, agree with you guys completely and did spend a lot of time looking at my speedo as I've been done for speeding a few years ago in Wales on a Honda 250, I was doing 35 in a 30 limit. I was approaching the 40 mph sign and was just accelerating when they nabbed me. The photo they sent (as I queried the ticket) showed me approaching the 40 mph sign. They'd positioned themselves out of sight and were catching people as they were accelerating. That's how sneaky the Welsh police are so damn right I'm going to be looking at my speedo more and therefore taking my eyes off the road more!!!
Absolutely. I’ve seen them do exactly that
Why would you follow the 20mph limit on a motorcycle though? We’d obviously have cars up our arse, it’s far more dangerous to keep to the limit. Just keep an eye out for cameras and do what speed makes sense.
I had a 3 hour ride over to Pwllheli. Genuinely no issues and certainly nothing I could film. I don’t get tailgating either.
Re the speeding ticket. The vans stand out like sore thumbs these days so hiding ? No just no observatio skills in my book. You’ll not know this but the camera will detect up to 750m away you’ll have typically been caught well before the van e.g. 50 to 100m . The photo you get is just a snapshot often at the end of being checked so you look closer.
Therefore with your speedo over reading you’ll have thought you were over 35. - possibly 37 or 38 even and well away from the 40 terminal.
Sorry, it’s always a bitter pill to swallow when we get caught but it’s usually not as we see it.
@@craigyllyn I seem to recall an article in MCN a few years ago where North Wales police were hiding cameras in the back of horse boxes? I’ve also seen unmarked police bikes with cameras set up in the top box on the A272 in England, so I don’t think they always make them visible. Here in Dorset the police will quite often do their best to hide the vans using hedges and lay-bys which can’t be seen until you’re on top of them.
@@thomashayter6834 by a while ago you mean about 20 years ago. I might be wrong but I think there’s been about 4 or 5 CC’s since him. At least one was a keen biker.
I think I know the article. It was only a few years ago. The vans are so obvious these days it’s hard to miss the battenburg boxes. GoSafe even publishes the usual locations….
Only time I was in Wales was a long long time ago but I discovered that when driving into a town/village by the time I had figured out how to pronounce the village/town name I was out the other side. Obviously the real reason for the 20 mph urban limit is to aid tourists giving them time to perfect their pronunciation whilst still in the village/town in question. That's my theory and I'm sticking to it.
The double signage (English and Welsh is a massive distraction if you don't live there. I wonder how that impacts driving safety.
My brother-in-law lives in Chingford London. That's been 20mph for a while now. June I rode down from Hertfordshire for a visit. I made a huge error, I left his home as the schools chucked out. Crawling along the main high road wishing I could do 20mph I saw some prick with two children and his back to on-coming traffic, just yards from a main set of traffic lights walk straight out into the road without looking once. The car driver sounded his horn, only for this father to start shouting cars have to give way to pedestrians??? This father then spat on the car before he turned his attention to me. What are you looking at, he shouted! So I replied, yes what indeed. Then looking at his two children I said, I'm sorry your daddy doesn't know about the Green Cross Man and how to cross the road properly. I got dirty looks but no more was said. I was now first in the que at the traffic lights to turn right. The traffic lights turned green, but still parents and children continued to cross..? Personally I think it's time that school children and parents who come to settle in the UK need to be taught the Green Cross Code. And what a pedestrian must do when motor vehicles have a green light priority! And the sooner teaching starts the betting in my view!
Unfortunately the latest highway code clearly written by shampagne socialists does say if a pedestrian is waiting to cross drivers must give way to them. This is somewhat causing kaios and confusion on the, roads esspecially at roundabouts on exiting the roundabout you can hold up everyone behind you giving way to pedestrians as you exit. Its like the dopey councils that put zebra crossings on roundabout exits and entrances.
@@oojimmyflip no it doesn't . There was plenty on social media with doctored images. I mean google is easy... (and you have a legal obligation to know the actual rules)
The updated code clarifies that:
when people are crossing or waiting to cross at a junction, other traffic should give way
if people have started crossing and traffic wants to turn into the road, the people crossing have priority and the traffic should give way
people driving, riding a motorcycle or cycling must give way to people on a zebra crossing and people walking and cycling on a parallel crossing
I've just travelled from Wiltshire to Brecon and back. The 20 mph limit only hit me in villages and places where I couldn't go faster. I think questioning a law because fuckwits are driving badly is insane. I think the delivery driver argument is bad, if a delivery driver is in a 20 mph zone without multiple drops he's poorly organised. If they have multiple stops in some of these areas, they are the congestion. Prosecute the idiots overtaking, get some revenue in. Improve the roadside facilities and clock your average speed through these places and the time it used to take you. I'd be surprised if it puts more than 10 minutes on a 2 hr journey. If that can save a few lives I don't mind. I've usually left half an hour late anyway 🙃.
I love how this started as a rant about traffic and became about them bloody foreigners. Twit.
We was all waiting for a las to cross a zebra crossing. She was just staring at it. Then when she noticed us all stopped looking at her she walked off. Most likely never seen one before.
Morning Team. I think you are putting out there, what we are all thinking. We are in Wales at the moment, drove down last night. We were sticking to 20mph, but vehicles coming in the opposite direction, definitely weren’t. Then there is the subject of bicycles, who are apparently exempt from the 20mph rule, and can overtake motorised vehicles……and before anyone shoots me down, just google it ! If that isn’t bonkers, then I don’t know what is 🙄😢
I had a similar debate on another channel last week and a cycling activist told me that I didn't know what I was talking about and cyclists can't do overv20mph? Well I know different and just yesterday on my way home from work as I was leaving kings lynn I was following a cyclist, I was doing exactly 30 mph and he was pulling away from me like I was going backwards, easy doing 45 mph. I actually googled it and professional cyclists regularly achieve over 60 mph.
@@sambrooks7862 agreed.
Yes…and remember even though you are legally speed restricted down hill, cycles are not….So it doesn’t even take a lycra clad road warrior with wrap around shades to get past you…any kid can do it….and of course once they are in front and slowed, you are doomed to travel the next however many miles at their speed. Since cyclists often travel in groups or strings..you are going no where mate.
@@contessa.adella also sadly true 😢
Yet more misinformation. Speed limits are for everyone. They can get done one way or another…
They can bring in as many restrictions as they like but idiots will still drive like idiots 🙄
I live in the Isle of Man , when on a no speed limit Road it means just that , you can ride at any speed provided you are not a danger to others or yourself, with that in mind I find myself usually riding at 50-60 mph as it’s a pleasurable speed on those roads , I never need to look at my speedometer so I’m totally concentrating on the road , This is definitely a place you guys should visit ..
I don't know if this is the case in Wales, but politicians often come up with mandates like these as a selfish means of self promotion.
Hi Sir, this subject is doing the rounds big time. Let’s hope you guys can do something about it. We’ve got a tiny tiny degree of this madness in NZ, but certainly not this blanket speed limit as Wales.
as a bloke from Australia. our standard speed limit (at least where I live) is 50 kmh, which is about 31 mph. Now, I cannot imagine going 32 kmh (20 mph) through those exact same streets if the equivalent reduction was made. It would be agonising, and stupid solely because of how some roads are definitely meant for higher speeds. It's like saying that a speed reduction should be applied to a highway, it would maybe reduce potential crashes, but defeats the purpose of ease of travel. There's a particular set of lights near where I live that has a quick timer, and I know that road would instantly become jammed because of being going so slowly through the lines, and also manoeuvring slowly.
Hope everything gets sorted for you all over there!
Hi Guys love your channel. Two of us from Northern Ireland were in lovely Wales two weekends ago. I agree with everything you’ve said and as ‘ tourists ‘ we’ve taken Wales off the map. We suffered from speed limit/camera anxiety and as you say in the 20 limits you are basically scared of getting picked up by a camera and yes ….. more attention is on the speedo than the road. And also …. We couldn’t believe that when you’re out in open countryside next thing a 50 limit appears.! Even the Welsh sheep are looking at you thinking what the hell is going on. 20’s outside schools and really built up areas are fine but when you’re driving through a country hamlet of three houses spread over 500 yards, you’re looking the speedo and the poles for cameras. It’s the fear of clocking up penalty points.
Yes absolutely agree 👍🏼
You know that in Gwynedd there’s no fixed cameras right?
Many country lanes are national speed limit 60mph but the lane is narrow and twisty with hedges or dry stone walls and you chug along at a speed that is reasonable and prudent generally something between 20 to 40 mph.
Regarding deliveries, some large companies may conclude that it’s not viable to deliver due to time/fuel usage so then it’s for you to collect or do without.
I'm a delivery driver and it hasn't made any difference where I live in Pembrokeshire. 600 square mile patch with a mixture of back lanes, villages and towns with varying speed limits.
Here’s what I think, the only one who benefits from this change is the company that’s contracted to make all the new 20 mph signs!
Australia is bad for its agonisingly slow speed limits everywhere so I understand and agree with a few of the points. We have a lot of speeders in Aus because the roads are slow and everything is very far apart
I agree with both you , the Welsh Government have clearly not thought this through , it about control rather than safety.
There’s a lot of people here very pleased with it. Mostly those living in widely abused 30’s I suspect. Also when pedestrians etc.
The 20 mph blanket is ridiculous. No problem in certain area such as schools, hospitals care homes but not everywhere.
Because it’s NOT A BLANKET. Don’t fall for the misinformation
20 is so slow I expect more car drivers will feel obliged to use their phones even more whilst driving as the consequences to them of a prang are minor. Plus even my 2016 car has a speed limiter option so they'll set that at 20 & pay zero attention to the road.
I live in south Wales and drive a delivery van part time as well as commuting by motorcycle. I was/am open minded about the new 20 limit. However since it has come in I find myself constantly on edge second guessing myself because there's no repeater/reminder signs. Before the change, you knew that any built-up area was a 30, and if it wasn't, there'd be repeater signs to tell you otherwise. Now it's a lottery whether or not it's 30 or 20. In some places you leave a 20 to cross a larger road and then back into a 20, or worse yet they have a 30 sign followed a very short distance later by a 20 sign. When you are actually focussed on the act of driving safely and watching for hazards on complex junctions you don't always have the bandwidth to absorb extra signage. I fequently think I'm in a 20 and discover it was a 30, and vice versa. And I can tell that other drivers are having the same issues. I hope they add some more repeater signage to make things clearer and safer.
Great channel, guys. Keep up the good work.
Street lights = 20 unless there’s repeaters. Simples it used to be 30 unless there’s repeaters
@@craigyllyn Yes, I'd be happy with that. But there aren't any 30 repeaters in the vast majority of the 30 limits yet. I speak as someone who drives about 500 miles a week across most of South West Wales so I get to see quite a lot of different areas. Plus lots of those electric signs that flash up your speed have not been recalibrated to show the right colour (red/amber/green) for the new speed limits.
@@davehoughton7474 it’s obviously different here. Signage took less than a week but here it’s different. Conurbations are smaller.
You do need decent signage
@@craigyllyn Yes I think different areas have done the roll out differently. And although I understand the funding came from central Welsh government, I'm not clear on whether that stretches to fund all the tidying up of signage that now seems to be required in some places. Time will tell.
@@davehoughton7474the big kicker is that a few years ago the signage requirements were relaxed. I can’t remember the exact details but words like adequate spring to mind rather than specifics
It's mad. All part of the war on cars/motorcycles and people's freedom's.
It will not end there!
It's the same issue with average speed cameras (spending more time looking at the speedo than the road), not all cars have or can cruise control especially when towing.
Difficult one this, however, I would say that in most European cities (including here in France) now the speed limit has been reduced to 30kph (20mph). Personally I don't have a problem with that, and I certainly don't have a problem with riding at the limit. You just get used to it, eventually there won't be any 'speedo fixation'.
One difference between the UK and most of Europe however is speed cameras. They are extremely rare here in Finistère, but in the UK there's one every 100 meters it seems. Getting off the ferry in Plymouth is a nightmare!
There are no fixed cameras in Gwynedd, Wales….
Here in Sweden it is 25miles p/h in most town’s and very few holds it
the traffic laws are sadly not written by motorcyclists with common sense 😥
Built up areas are 50kmh - 70kmh in NZ. In the immediate school zones it’s less for obvious reasons. Wales has gone overboard big time.
Agree 100% with you. I now have average speed cameras coming into in my town which makes no sense as the traffic is always grid locked most of the time due to traffic lights every 100 yards. I do wonder what the government will do regarding the petition for wales now, will they listen to the people.
Average speed cameras everywhere now, they're multiplying at a frightening rate on top of reduced limits on more and more roads. Really makes me feel controlled and surveilled by Big Brother. George Orwell warned us
Loads of areas are 30km/h or around 20mph in the Netherlands. In urban areas. Wich is fine for only one reason. These roads are made for it. They have speedbumps. Car parking left 15 meters over on the right. It naturally forces you to drive slower. So it works. It does not work on long stretches of road. And ffs there its just dangerous. People feel the road takes too long or get bored. Grab a phone or speed.
You can't just slap any speedlimit and call it safe. Your arguments are very solid!
My great grandfather came from Wales and I have dreamed of touring Wales on a motorcycle! I have taken the trip off of my to do list because of the lower speed limit!
Sad loss
Meanwhile I’m here loving our multitude of 60mph limits ….
In order for the speed limits to be on a case by case basis the lawmakers would actually have to look at each individual case. And that would be WORK! And well they're not going to do any of THAT any time soon are they?
They have done that. We still have 30’s as well. This “ Blanket “ claim is not correct…
Yes, well thought out. I live near a school and there's a long stretch of 20mph. People who don't know the town get very frustrated behind this 'why-is-this-big-motorcycle-going-so-slow?'...and come eventually flying past...just where the school is.
20mph on a motorcycle is unbearable, so the choice is to ride at 30mph or give up riding altogether. Can’t really complain about cars up our arse when we stick to 20mph.
One thing I have become aware of. At 20mph in a turbocharged diesel particulates tend to build up in the exhaust. Not a problem if it’s a short 20mph zone but.
Thank you well said iv ventured into wales a couple of times this year and I can tell you now I’m not keeping to 20 miles hour. Agree with all the points you’d have raised.
Nobody is getting prosecuted for anything under 30.
I said exactly the same about delivery vans that will go even faster now on ope roads because of the 20 zones.
If a delivery driver can do 30 AND find addresses then I’d be very surprised. I never could push a limit and constantly check the buildings. It was too dangerous. Add in that here in Gwynedd many houses don’t have numbers but names and it’s a nightmare. We get numerous calls from people who cannot find our address…
This is exactly what is happening to me. when driving 20mph, i constantly, constantly staring into speedo and already had couple near misses and one of them pretty serious
Do you constantly drive looking at thr speedo in a 30 zone? Why is your awareness any different?
@@ilikelampshades6 it's very easy to cruise between 25-31mph without having to look at the speedo much, which creates confidence, separation distance with cars, and doesn't affect others road users.
On the other hand, it's difficult to maintain 20mph without having to check the speedo every few seconds (coming from someone who rides in central London every other day, it's a pain).
@@JosM1599 is that not just because you are used to what 30 feels like compared to 20mph? Or is it to do with gearing?
@@ilikelampshades6 just remember how you were when you were learning. You were always staring at your speedometer but with nothing like the skills you’ll have now to support you. It took me about a week to adjust. Regardless of whether on my 125, 500, petrol car, diesel van or my sons 250bhp TT it is just plain sailing already. It really concerns me all these people seemingly unable to cope. Driving standards simply aren’t good enough.
There's a place for 20mph speed limits, and it's near schools and institutions with vulnerable people. A lot of drivers think sticking to the 30 limit is an act of provocation, which is why these silly rules are brought in.
Can't help but agree with you. But a problem with 20 mph only at these place is that children, older and vulnerable people are not just in these designated places.
Blame your government not the drivers.... You allowed these morons you voted in to come up with this New World Order BS...it is about CONTROl....
They are brought in by council desk jockeys who have never driven the route in question or done a saftey assesment of the route, hence the blanket changes in Wales. Its like these dippy mini roundabouts that simply dont have enough room to drive around them a stupid idea and no one comes to drive around the incredible cock up they have designed at their desk as long as they dont have to live with it they dont care.
Since children are mostly hit away from schools I disagree. Also when they’re coming and going the roads are gridlocked so it’s not an issue.
I've got to be honest in 20 zones on in the work van I feel my hand twitching for the phone. Boredom on the road is a very dangerous thing.
I’ve found myself looking at the speedo a hell of a lot more since this change went into effect. Almost obsessing over it.
I thinks this is great,makes sense in fact let's make it 10 mph even safer, or even better why not 5 mph that's even safer. The people that make these decisions are clowns.
5mph on a motorcycle would have you wobbling all over the road not practical at all but dam right dangerous.
I think we should go at walking pace and be forced to have a flag bearer walk in front of us at all times. That will do the trick 👍
It's not about safety, it's about control and it's what you get with a socialist government or council like in Wales and in London. Just 2 weeks ago my wife and I were planning a week away and my wife suggested Wales. After the 20mph announcement we decided "no way" and had a lovely week away in Norfolk. So Wales lost about £1000 of tourism. I suspect this won't be the only loss of tourism either. Thankfully Rushi has seen some light and there will be some legislation coming to address this attack on the motorist very soon...
I wouldn't trust Rushi with anything! They're trying to appeal to people because of the election. If they get in again, things will swing around I can assure you
@@pw601 Agreed, but its not like we have much choice in this one. If people are indicating what they want and a political party thinks they can get more votes then what are they going to do? It is called democracy, but its far from that...
I totally agree with you re driving into/through Wales… the other we were visiting family in Gloucester and we decided to come back home to Lancashire by non motorway means… ideally we’d have travelled up into and through Wales and exited near Chester but the new limits had just been introduced so we decided otherwise and travelled up through Shropshire instead…. Methinks Wales has made a big mistake by penalising the motorist
There's a steep 1 in 5 hill called Mountain Road in Caerphilly. You have to brake hard all the way to the bottom to stay under 20mph causing serious brake fade. And that's on a bike. Imagine a lorry.
All very true and good points. I’m normally the idiot bombing past at 40 because I refuse to follow the 20mph rule. If JSO can disobey the rules of the road with no consequences then sod it so will I.
But for you, there will be consequences.
@@6chhelipilot and if you hit somebody they will feel the consequences of your actions. Though possibly not for long as there’s a good chance you’ll kill them…
In the city what twats are doing they are staying off the main roads where they might get caught breaking the 20 mph and driving down side roads to make up time doing 50 60 it’s total madness
Yes thought this would happen especially delivery drivers who have to deliver so many parcels in a certain time 👍🏼
KICK THE LABOUR PARTY OUT OF WALES !!
That won't happen because they have too many fan voters
Thought this was really well presented, and good points!
Thanks 😊
In the US, dense urban and residential is usually 25 mph or 35 mph. At 25 mph, I'm down in 1st gear on the R18. Ridiculous.
All of this seems to be happening in mostly Labour-run areas. Bear that in mind in a year's time.
central gov holds the purse strings
far worse than speed limits (which the Cons agree with BTW) is the appalling state of UK roads, dangerous to bikers. That is caused directly by tory austerity cuts, every year since 2010, of the maintenance grants to local authorities for road maintenance. Bear that in mind next time you vote.
Not in wales they dont@@gzk6nk
The next step will be 0 mph.
Maximum number of lives saved...
Or horse and cart.
@@johnmartin7158 yeah, but only if them mentally handicapped tree huggers aren't blocking that based on "animal cruelty" 😁
Shhhh... what are you up to? Exciting a pair of neurons in their scantily dressed excuse of a brain? They might just find it brilliant and run away with it...
Your are lucky in my city in Switzerland the speed limit down town is 20 km/h (12 mph) and 30 km/h (18 mph) outside. I always stay in first gear and keep a constant speed only by hearing my loud pipe. You get used to it.
The intimidation factor is a grim thing for older drivers. I was coming back from Llanelli a while ago and there was an elderly couple holding up traffic whilst doing 20MPH in the 40MPH zone past Sandy Water Park, A week later, much the same, when I was on my motorbike, an old fella doing 14, yes 14MPH and holding up a line of cars in a 30MPH zone in Pwll, halfway between Llanelli and Burry Port. I must confess to having blasted past in the first case, when driving the car home from shopping.
The whole town is buggered by 20mph limits which most slavishly obey. What’s worse is the road from Ynysforgan to Pontardawe on a 40mph average speed camera when the road has no pavement, no junctions and was designed for 60mph. Painful isn’t the word.
@@grahamhiggins1 Graham, we can only hope, seeing as Drakeford is retiring next May, that his would-be successor will take heed of the petition that's now over 459,000 votes. Labour needs a good arse kicking in Wales. I and many pals here in Burry Port will be voting Reform UK in both local and general elections from here on in. All the main parties are simply taking us all for mugs.
Some old folk literally can't see the signs.
Imo it should be compulsory for elderly people to do take the driving exam at a certain age. That way we can get rid of all the people who shouldn't be allowed a licence off the road.
@@Darth_Wallace I agree. A woman in her nineties ran down a pal's mother at the health centre, just a few hundred yards from my home. The fire brigade had to be called to lift the car off her. Miraculously, she wasn't permanently injured, her hips etc. are ok.
Govvernments NEVER tell you the truth. It's about control. The next step is no driving.
Correct.
Yep ev’s with their self driving capabilities currently learning and fine tuning
Hi, I live in Portsmouth which is one of the most densely populated cites in Europe. The main trunk roads running through the entire city are 30MPH, the side roads running between the main roads are 20MPH, the motorway running into town reduces to 60 at the last section and reduces to 50 as you approach the populated area and reduces to 40 as it runs into the city centre, the other main road coming into town at the other end is a dual carriageway 50MPH reducing to 40 and then 30 the same as the rest of the main roads.
This seems to work well. Getting around town on the main roads you do 30MPH which is about right because we have very few big wide open roads, as you go to exit the city can you do 40, and all the little small back streets with the risk of kids and alike walking out into the road you are doing 20 which seems about right when you consider how narrow the streets are.
[the little back streets are packed full of terrace houses, very narrow and full of cars packed in parking on both side, so if you drive normally you naturally/unconsciously don’t exceed 20MPH anyway.
As soon as you get out of the back streets you naturally/unconsciously speed up to around 30MPH so that speed limit seems about right as well]
If they made the entire city a 20MPH zone the place would grind to a halt.
Sensible and similar to here in Gwynedd
Only growth industry in Wales will be the red flag bearer walking in front of vehicles / motor bikes.
Thanks for highlighting the contrary affects on safety, caused by enforced and unrealistic speed limits.
My opinion is that improving safety is a smoke screen. I think the real reasoning is that limiting vehicles to 20 will increase the range and use less power for electric vehicles. Putting less strain on the grid, and making electric vehicles more practical.
The real goal of all this is to make as many people as possible give up driving altogether.
O man, y'all are totally screwed! In Murca we know that lower speed limits have 1 purpose: as a gov't income stream. Vote! Vote! Vote da bums out....
You can’t vote this out, it’s not a partisan issue. Both parties are pro this.
I completely agree with all of your points 👍I’m sure you will get loads of comment on this . We might as well go a little further and have a man with a flag walking in front of all motorists 😂 other than the weather this is another good reason to leave wales 🏴 I honestly think that this will put off tourist visiting this lovely country!
It absolutely will. I've scratched it off my list for my extended motorcycle vlog trip to Europe in the near future. Damn shame cuz I've met so many great Welsh in my travels and I was looking forward to experiencing their countryside.
You must do the NC 500 in Scotland before the 20 mpg rule goes there !
That’s one of the best trips I’ve ever done ( we were lucky with warm sunny weather though 👍
Hopefully it’ll be the ones who can’t judge their speed without staring at their speedos or are simply naive in thinking 20’s aren’t elsewhere . We’ll be better off without poor drivers 😂😂
The Uncertainty Principle applies to driving. You can know where you are on the road but not know how fast you are going or know how fast you are going but not know where you are on the road. The test for one creates uncertainty in the other.
I own an Italian classic bike with Veglia speedo how am I supposed to do 20mph when the needle bounces between 0 and 40mph
That is crazy! I raised the issue of speed limits in my country (Croatia), as I did some research for an article that I was writing for Croatian Automobile Club. All speed limits are obsolete. When I talked with experts, we all agreed that those limits set on our roads (Europe) - 130 km/h highway, 80 km/h state road / municipal road, 50 km/h city and occasionally 40 km/h and 20 km/h - hospitals, schools etc.. are set 40-50 years ago. And I will remind you, 50 years ago we drove VW Beetle and Mini Morris with top speed of 120 km/h.
Today, on the other hand, we have cars with minimum active and passive safety - ABS, air bags and front / rear pedestrian safe bumpers, going further, cars have lane assist, active pedestrian radars and blind spot sensors. So, my position was and still is, that we can raise the speed limit conservatively for 10 km/h.
Move this to bikes, I have a 2023. Royal Enfield Classic 350 (you had some influence in my decision, so big thanks!) and my Enfield comes with ABS as standard. Before that I drove an 20 year old Vespa GT200 without ABS, and today Vespas are also equipped with ABS, and we all know how much safer is on 2 wheels with ABS. So, I don't see the reason of lowering speed limit in 2023. where cars are faster and more advance then initial speed limits where set.
When I look all the world, only Germans have some sense on Autobahnn, even though, they put some speed limits even there.
I’ve been arguing this problem for years. Not about people who break the speed limit, but people who regularly drive well under the speed limit. E.g. unconfident drivers or old people with poor eyesight and reaction times. I’m convinced they create more accidents than any other road users because people stuck behind them get frustrated and end up doing dangerously silly manoeuvres to overtake. Never hear anything about this though because under current laws it’s perfectly ok to drive like Miss Daisy and piss everyone else off.
Bit ageist. .
@@longjonwhite not really. It’s a fact that all your senses required for driving to a decent standard deteriorate rapidly after 50 years old.
Here’s a fact for you -
“By age 60, your pupils may be only one-third of the size they were when you were 20.”
@@longjonwhite I forgot about brand new car owners. They’re the worst.
Drive like they’ve just passed their test.
@@GK1976A So, you planning to hang up your keys when you reach the decrepit age of 50, or risk it for a couple more years?
@@longjonwhite I’ve already pretty much given up driving because I hate it so much. Don’t know why people are obsessed with cars. I find it akin to torture with the amount of morons and traffic on the road.
Just got back down South Wales from Snowdonia. Went out into England and came down the A49 through Hereford. Barely any twenties! :) Makes you appreciate the 30s a bit more.
Every government throughout the world have experts who they already employ, that can assist in the setting the speed limits on their roadways, their highway maintenance truck drivers.
Couldn't they do something useful for once like ban horses. Dangerous things liable to kick you when you pass cos exhaust is too loud for them. Where are the brakes? Where is the kill switch? Dangerous. F horse riders.
Moron 🤬
I hope you ride sensibly near horses whether you like it or not.
Doesnt matter, my exhaust is too loud even if I roll past at idle slipping my clutch. Had a pikey try to hit me with his whip before. Maybe dont have a large nervous creature around loud traffic on roads. Maybe keep your horse in the woods it is not controllable like a proper vehicle. Horses are for Toffs and Travellers.
@@dalegribble9101 I’ve had loud Harleys and if i see a nervous horse i stop the engine and wait for them to go. I guess that shows that everyone is different
@@MrDarcy-OlMan Yea, Im not stopping my engine and waiting so some Toff or Traveller can trot their horse along. Everyone is different I guess. I lost all respect for all people during the lockdowns, sorry. You can all jog on.
Pilot error mitigation?
Honestly I think it’s to mitigate risk of collision with self driving vehicles.
This fashion for ridiculously low speed limits in city centres started in Christchurch New Zealand 2016, I was living there when it started. They also replaced parking spaces with cycle lanes at the same time.
In the United States they screamed years ago when interstate highways had the speed limit raised from 55 mph to 60, 65 or 70 the individual state governments decided. There were many who screamed rattlesnakes on the playground, thousands of people will die etc. Fatalities went down drastically. Why? Because at 55 mph you can daydream, play with your phone etc....but at 65 or 70 you absolutely must pay attention or end up part of disaster
Only thing I can add is that if the 20mph must be enforced around schools then the enforcement shouldn't be in place outside of school hours
Makes sense I’m one of them that gets frustrated, all of what you said is very true I’ve seen it happening a lot now with other drivers also, very stressful driving these days, I also ride a motorcycle witch I haven’t been out since last summer so I can’t imagine what it’s going to be like on it the next time I go out, like you said we always seem to be looking down on our clocks not concentrating around us, I think more accidents are likely to come,😔
Sorry lads, I'm a biker and don't fully agree with your reasons! 1. Looking down to check speed: if you drive any vehicle regularly at the speed limit especially a motorbike you can and should be able pretty much to tell your speed without excessive looking down. 2. overtaking by impatient drivers: I'm a Welshman living in Bristol where we've had a lot of 20mph streets for a couple of years. Impatient overtaking rarely happens and if it did, the lower speed makes it safer! 3. In the city most delays are due to traffic lights and traffic jams; someone doing 20 usually catches up with the faster driver at the next junction.
But you made a fair point about commercial drivers - perhaps over a whole day they are slowed down and then speed to make up time! Thanks for the presentation and I'm in favour of 20mph - in practice a lot of traffic in Bristol does 25 in the 20 zones anyway 😀Having been saved by doing 20mph from crashing into a tw @t who pulled out on my motorbike, I'm happy with that!
Here in France a couple of years back, in the name of net zero, the national speed limit was reduced from 90kph to 80kph. Immediately the accident and death rate on the roads increased. The Government rescinded the law but would not fund the replacement of the new speed limit signs with the old ones. Now we have the situation where in some departments the “national” speed limit is either 80 or 90 on the same road.
There's a petition running for Synnedd to revoke the 20 mph limit.
Currently at 495,000 ish votes. Add your name of you disagree with it.
It will be safer but it would be the end of me, Depression would get me.
I was driving up to Wrexham from Shropshire and the speed limit went down to 20mph on parts of a main road on the outskirts of Wrexham, just because its a built up area but it was a main road so quite a big road and not a smaller residential road. It was like all the cars were in a traffic jam. A motobike bombed past at 50 mph as if in objection to it all.
Glad to see people like you coming out and giving a different point of view on how things should be done and why. I believe that most of the changes that are done regarding safety are done by people at an office who have no clue and just look for the simplest solution without research.
I totally agree with the message of the video. Usually, people making the rules are not the main users. Nonsense ends up being passed as a law so that someone gets a pad on the back. You two are brave for doing some critical thinking and being always among the first (and often the only ones) stating what so many think but won't say loud enough. I would encourage you to create an online petition to be heard by your local representatives. I do not have the biggest of hopes on politicians, but sometimes there is a good one who listens and still is connected to the folk that vote for them. All the best for this week guys!
How did you stick to 30 MPH without staring at the speedo?
What you mentioned in the video makes all the sense. It is actually funny how a speed limit is needed, those who will drive safely will do so no matter what the limit is and those who don't won't. The funny thing is that looking back at how the imperial system came about is to rely on "measurements that intuitively make sense to humans/people". That is, a foot, a mile (as far as a normal sight eye can see), ...etc... and yet, now we have to use speedometers to decide if that speed "makes sense".... the reason why the imperial system works much better (and I lived 27 years in Saudi and 13 years in the US so I know the difference that I am talking about) is that it relies on intuition and sense in contrast to the metric system in my 'personal opinion'. I hope this speed limit thing is changed to 'speed suggestion', I am fully in support of that. Just to tip it, some times I am about to make accidents since if I want to take over I am worried to exceed the speed limit and there is that hesitation to speed more and pass quicker (to avoid a hazardous situation) or to slow down and get back where I was (which is sometimes not possible since there could be some one rearing you so close and it could cause an accident). If it was a suggestion, I will practice my responsibility as an adult who cares about his and people's lives in a smoother manner, hesitation is a cause of so many accidents (low or high speed).
A few conflicting statements here but agree with general gist. The issue I have is around where I live they put in a lot of 20 zones but as they’re so punitive to your daily journey most people ignore. Where as if you made it 20 in really important areas ONLY like past schools etc you would make real effort to comply knowing it is 20 for a reason. Unfortunately though common sense is a rare thing to our legislators. I vote for none of the above 😅
As often only a few idiots (in this case, like you said, people who are horrible drivers) ruin / worsen something for everyone. Here we have 50 km/h in towns and only in some areas (near schools, kindergardens, hospitals, etc) 30km/h and that's okay for me. But some regional politicians think it's better to setup 30 km/h all over in my hometown (for "safety reasons" => means more money from speed traps) 🤢🤮 Additonally our mayor is called "bicycle major" and he hates cars and motorcycles ... for sure we'll get soon 30 km/h all over my hometown 🤬
Agreed. Also, Do you guys own the meteor or is it a test bike?
It’s on loan from Royal Enfield. Review coming soon!
Just to be clear though not all 30mph zones have become 20mph, just certain ones. Been present in Scotland a while already and also in force around schools everywhere.
It is a ridiclous speed limit, that is 32kph, we have inner town roads with 40kph and it is very hard to stay under that speed, I can't imagine what 20mph/32kph would be like.
Coming from Germany, I always experience the issues you raise when I cross into the Netherlands. Arriving there having gone 130 or something and suddely having to go only 60 and in constant fear of cameras I pay much more attention to the speedo. Honestly, it's so exhausting and keeps my focus everywhere *but* on the road... Speed limits are alright, but they must make sense, otherwise they are dangerous.
Oh and if you know the Dutch motor ways, it is hard to justify anything under 80 or 90 mp/h there. They are often immaculate and wide. From a technical viewpoint they are excellent.
They are very good. I was impressed👍
Totally agree chaps with the points you've made here in this film!
I like the 20mph zones. Seems much safer to me and keeps cycling safer
Now motorists are in danger of speeding bicycles!
During my rides out in Yorkshire, ive been doing 50 in 50 zones and being passed by a long line of cars wanting to do 70. I would say a good 90% want to be going faster than the speed limit. I noticed whilst running in my meteor that they pretty much force you to speed up. Effectively tail gating you. So i understand why action was needed. But i was planning a trip to Wales, but 20 is too slow so I think I will try Scotland instead. I would also point out that 20mph is a high revs 2nd gear or a low revs 3rd gear on my bike, I am going to be spending most of my time in a high rev 2nd gear burning up patrol.
20’s in Scotland are widespread. They started before Wales…..
Out of town its still 60 in most areas. It's not a blanket 20 mph limit.
There are still 30s and 40's in my town as well as 20's.
The 20's are town centres and residential streets..
Agree, even worse where I am with the average speed cameras, constantly focusing on the speedo making sure I don't drift over 2o mph
What is the enforcement limit? On your 20 cameras? Here it would be ( if there were any and I’m sure there are none in north Wales) it would cu be at something like 27 at the moment but in about a year or whenever it settles down it will be 24. That’s an average not a max so it’s not an issue. Average cameras aren’t.
@@craigyllyn sorry don't know what the enforcement limit is. I asked a police officer some time back and couldn't get an answer, very frustrating. I can't confirm of deny how much attention I give to the new speed limits. However I can confirm I adhere to them where cameras are. 😊
@@michelod.i.y.5202 write in as a FOI request 👍 you’ll be reassured knowing that you can have quite some leaway. Never forget that it’s an average
London is also introducing these 20mph zones .but as you say I spent more time looking at my speedo than the road
Recently whilst driving from England into Wales I saw this sign that read, "Welcome to Wales. Please park here and walk, it'll be quicker!"
On this channel we’ve discussed size of bike and how small bikes makes more sense in the UK (Wales), but I have to say, if I’m having to put up with this insanity I would sell all of my bikes and just ride my electric bicycle that BTW, goes 27 mph no problem. Sheer insanity. . .
Personally i feel we should go back to how it was at its first inception of 30 in town 60 on country roads and no limit on motorways
Good luck with that. lol Never going to happen, unless we are heading into some sort of 'Mad Max' dystopia.
Instead we're heading for an Orwellian dystopia
You guys are right. It is stupid in this day and age that motorist need to take their eye off the road to check if the vehicle is going faster than the speed limit. Your phone knows how fast you are going and your phone knows what speed you are doing and it knows where the cameras are so it shouldn't be to difficult for a car's computer to know the same and be able to sound a warning 'dong' thus getting rid of the need to keep an eye on your dials.
My car has “cruise control” and I use it in 30 MPH limits, it won’t set below this so constant speedo alert!
Here in a suburb of NYC,cameras are aplenty,with red light and speed cameras. The speed cameras won’t flash until you’ve done 10 over the limit so there’s a grace period. Intersections with red light cameras are instantaneous as two sensors underground have to be triggered for photo. This gives people attempting to stop that have crossed first sensor a chance to back up,so,some sort of grace period. Alas,NYer’s have come accustomed to the many map apps on smartphones that alert them upcoming to slow down for the instant and then continue as see fit.
I think it’s a problem, but can see both sides - as usual it hasn’t really been thought out properly. I live in a small village in Cambridgeshire that has recently implemented a 20mph limit. Yes it has a lot of pedestrian school traffic, and well used community hubs. It also sees an awful lot of cyclists, being a very popular area for those that enjoy getting out on a bike at the weekends. I find this to be the biggest problem, as a car driver - when you are limited to such a slow speed, dealing with slower moving traffic becomes a more dangerous proposition. It takes me longer to safely pass a cyclist, while giving them the space that the Highway Code demands. This increases the chance of an error on anyone’s part, that could have been avoided if the motorised vehicle could cleanly and safely pass. As you’ve mentioned, the problem is that people will become impatient, and make rash decisions.
The other issue I have, is that maintaining a lower speed inherently more difficult, because of the gear that you’re in - especially as automatic cars are more or less the norm now. Automatic or CVT cars have no idea ‘why’ you’re doing 20mph, making throttle response far more sensitive because of the way a vehicle is geared. At least in a manually geared vehicle, you can put it in 3rd and hope you don’t have the torque to get you in trouble!
Had a trip to wales booked, two bikes two nights. bed n breakfast. My other mate reported people crawling about at 20mph and LESS in fear of “speeding” ticket… so duly CANCELLED all and will not bother…
Hi
I was listening to radio4 a few days after the 20 mph restiction was introduced and the guy being interviewed was the guy who introduced it, his comments made a lot of sense he said it only needed to be implemented in speed sensitive areas like schools and local authorities could de restrict back to 30 if they saw fit. Has anywhere done this?
Keep up the good work
The point made near the end is the one I find most persuasive.
Namely, many drivers will become massively frustrated and seek to make up 'lost' time on other roads, by driving excessively fast.
The new legislation is well-meaning, but very, very dumb.
Same in Cambridge. I can appreciate it near schools but never needed it when we had the Green Cross Code!