How to Deal With Traps Without a Rogue in D&D 5e!
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- Опубликовано: 3 июл 2024
- MONSTERS OF DRAKKENHEIM is 300+ pages of eldritch horror inspired monsters for 5e by the Dungeon Dudes! Coming to Kickstarter March 26th, 2024: www.kickstarter.com/projects/... We look at busting the myth that Rogues are the only class capable of opening locked doors and disarming traps. In this open discussion, We talk about feats, spells, class features, and more that can help anyone deal with traps and doors in their games.
TIME STAMPS
0:00 - Intro
2:50 - Proficiencies are not Exclusive
7:37 - Many Ways To Find a Trap
11:13 - Feats, Abilities, Companions
13:28 - Spells
18:50 - Break It
20:57 - Points For the Rogue
21:49 - Evolution of Dungeon Design
27:54 - Wrapping Up
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Игры
We had a barbarian in a one-shot who named his character "The Muscle Wizard", and when we first entered a dungeon, we were attacked by giant rats. We killed them, and Muscle Wizard decided to just carry one of the rats around by the tail. Uhhh, okay, bro, you do you. We open the main door into a long corridor, and he says, "I cast detect traps!" and throws the rat so it skids and bounces across the floor in a straight line. It triggered a pit trap with a zombie in the bottom, which turned that trap into a fish-in-a-barrel moment instead, lol.
Very possible that there wasn't a trap before this happened. If i was the DM and one of my players did this, I would make damn sure a trap magically appeared.
That’s better than barbarian fireball which requires a sack of flour and a lit torch.
Simple! Just have your Cleric, Druid, or Ranger cast Find Traps! As said in the spells name, the spell will help you find and locate… wait what? The spell does what? Oh, nevermind, don’t do that.
Ah, Find Traps, the most useless f***ing spell in the game!😉
@@andrewshaughnessy5828 *True Strike enters the building*
Hello There
@@UltimateKarma3 At least True Strike doesn't cost you a spell slot. I sometimes wonder what the game designers were thinking with those two.
@@UltimateKarma3 at least Bladesingers can make use of Blade Ward, and it does what it's supposed to. Find Traps can't even do that
I don't get it, how is that useless. Even if you can't disarm them you can avoid them
Artificers are amazing. They get expertise at level 6, great investigation scores, flash of genius to add your int mod to the roll, they can cast guidance or enhance ability on themselves, even can make their own gloves of thievery with infusions. There are more that help in this regard but with these at your disposal you can make that 24 from the rogue look like child's play.
Don't sleep on artificers!
A 14 dex / 20 int Artificer (at level 7) could have available to them (from just themselves) the below for a lock picking check:
d20
+d4 (guidance)
+8 (tool expertise)
+5 Flash of Genius
+5 (gloves of thievery infusion)
The bare minimum you can get with all of that active is a 20, the max is a 42, with the average being 31 or 32 (if my math is right).
You can technically FoG + Guidance + Gloves of Thievery a rogue and their range will be 23-45 (assuming a +5 dex mod) but.. do you really need to? The numbers are so close that it's essentially inconsequential for a Rogue to be present. If you rolled stats, did point buy, started with a non-standard array or generated stats some other way you might even have ended up with a higher dex than 14 anyways which narrows the gap even more.
This isn't quite a trap, but one of my first times DMing, I ran Sunless Citadel. The party comes to a corridor littered with caltrops and there are two goblins stationed behind a low wall at the far end. The idea is for the party to have to move slowly up the corridor to avoid the caltrops while the goblins take potshots with their shortbows. In my game, though, the barbarian just dropped her bedroll on the ground and charged up the hall, pushing the bedroll in front of her and sweeping all the caltrops away. Sure, she took an arrow or two, but she made up and over the wall to engage the goblins and cleared the hallway for the rest of the group.
I can do it as a Wizard in two easy steps:
Step one: Find Familiar
Step two: Lose Familiar
Lol
Rune knight :)
Fire Rune. This rune's magic channels the masterful craftsmanship of great smiths. While wearing or carrying an object inscribed with this rune, your proficiency bonus is doubled for any ability check you make that uses your proficiency with a tool.
In addition, when you hit a creature with an attack using a weapon, you can invoke the rune to summon fiery shackles: the target takes an extra 2d6 fire damage, and it must succeed on a Strength saving throw or be restrained for 1 minute. While restrained by the shackles, the target takes 2d6 fire damage at the start of each of its turns. The target can repeat the saving throw at the end of each of its turns, banishing the shackles on a success. Once you invoke this rune, you can't do so again until you finish a short or long rest.
Came here to say this.
Strangely appropriate for a lockpick
@@ericshearer6975 Same.
The Dudes don't seem to consider the Rune Knight much besides being a damage dealer or tank. Which is too bad, because while it is still a fighter, I've seen it bring some neat utility to the table that can help to round out the player skills.
Thank you, in addition the Fire Rune also gives you Expertise in Musical Instruments and Vehicles because they are technically tools.
I really like the idea of a “myth buster” series for 5e, and I love that you’re starting with this topic. I feel like a lot of people assume that certain classes are meant to be the only answer to certain problems, like the rogue and traps. It’s nice to see other suggestions on handling this stuff.
I don’t know if this would count as a myth, but I’ve seen a number of people think that you have to be a high charisma character to contribute to negotiations or conversation-based encounters. I’d be interested in seeing a video addressing that. I know it may sort of be covered in “who is the best negotiator”, but if you guys ever consider making a full video on that topic, I’d definitely watch it.
I’d like to see them examine whether you need a cleric or Druid in your party for healing or if a party can survive without those.
@@dinomichalopoulos1517 In general, preventing the damage in the first place is more efficient than trying to heal it, especially with lower level healing spells. Players can learn to craft their own healing potions in their downtime with a herbalism kit, there's short rests, and enough classes can act as off-healers to cover up small damage. Where a dedicated healer matters is if your party does a lot of fighting without any time to rest, someone has to be revived from dying, or if you get to higher levels where clerics can actuall get good spells like Heal.
That’s definitely a good topic as well. My dm runs healing items differently depending on if there is a good healer class (like stars druid or a cleric) in the party. If the group has no access to healing spells, we may find potions more, or they’re cheaper in shops. Stuff like that.
It should also be brought up that some subclasses have a heal that isn’t magic based, like second wind, and there are feats like healer or inspiring leader. Not to mention the “kill the bad guys to prevent damage in the first place” strategy. Having a healer is nice, but it is nowhere near required.
Kelly what a great reference for the orc! That was oblivion, and he was hilarious with dialogue like “screw the bonus just run in and kill everyone”
Druid: _Misty steps through a crack_
Wizard: _Flips through their notes looking for the Knock spell_
Bard: _Casts the Knock spell_
Wizard: HEY! That's my thing!
Rogue: ...
Rogues: Blows up the crack with tones of TNT it stole.
I recently played a campaign where my sorcerer was the one who opened locks and occasionally disabled traps.
A 16 dex, proficiency in thieves tools, gloves of thievery, and the ability to spend a sorcery point to reroll an ability check worked wonders.
Easy, bring an artificer. Who needs a thief when you bring a locksmith?
Bonus points, the Artificer might be able to manipulate the trap to turn it against the enemy.
For instance, trapped and locked door, trap triggers on lock getting wrong key.
Artificer disables trap. Artificer unlocks door. Then, since they have access to the whole mechanism now, they could CHANGE which key is the "right" key, and lock the door and re-set the trap behind the party.
I have the most fun when I can turn the obstacles in my path into obstacles in the enemy's path.
Funny you mention a locksmith. I have homebrewed an Arcane Smith class and 6he Arcane Locksmith is one of the options available. It is kind of like the lovechild of rogue and artificer.
The Goliath grabs the halfling or koblod. Ties them in a ball and rolls them down the hallway.
Traps and bowling!!! All in one !
I like to occasionally set challenges for myself in making some characters. I wanted to make a Barbarian who was not a traditional Barbarian with a typical background... So I saw the "Criminal" background and I was like... A Barbarian could totally be an Enforcer, breaking legs for a criminal outfit to collect debts... And that also comes with giving a Barbarian proficiency with Thieves' Tools... meaning I had the Barbarian who could pick a lock without breaking it down... But it would also make sense that a Barbarian like that would also know about traps and have some capacity to deal with them... Especially with Danger Sense to help deal with the failure to disarm one.
ever read the Conan novels? sounds a lot like him ;o)
I remember in 3rd edition the writers reminded everyone that although an invisible servant couldn't directly activate traps, they CAN haul a sack of something through a hallway and trigger traps that way.
When Monty said “DnD Mythbusting” I immediately realized that the Dungeon Dudes are absolutely the Adam and Jamie of the DnD world, and nothing will convince me otherwise. Kelly is obviously Jamie, and Monty is very very much Adam!
O my god, that is so accurate. "Dungeon-Busters"
*Takes off sunglasses* Mother of god
So I am going to argue a point about skills I feel is under-rated. We keep saying "rogue's must play by the rules" vs spell casters, but technically spells only do what is written. You have to have the right spells. Skills cover a category of abilities and you don't run out of slots. They don't do what is written, their limits are imagination, logic and the roll of the die.
What's meant is that Rogues only have bonuses to things everyone can do. Here an example scenario: A dangerous guard is guarding a locked door - DC 15 stealth check or DC 15 persuation/deception/intimidation to bypass the guard, followed by a DC 15 thieves' tools check to open the door. The rogue can beat those checks, as can any other character, but the rogue is usually more likely to succeed. However the spellcaster don't have to play by those rules (of course they still literally play by the game's rules), as the druid turned into a spider and snuck past the guard and through the door slit.
How uncreative to view spells as so limited.
Step 1: Be an Echo Knight
Step 2: Manifest Echo
Step 3: Profit
How about wildfire druid?
@@Sheamu5 That costs a use of your wild shape. Manifest Echo just costs a bonus action.
Can Echo trigger traps in the first place?
@@magdakos4690 It is a semi-physical being that can attack other creatures and be attacked itself. I'd imagine it could be affected by traps.
It can trigger some traps. It’s an object, so magic traps that specifically target creatures would not trigger.
One myth in DND 5e I'd love to see taken down is the prevalent idea that Monks are bad. I'll forfeit that monks don't have any subclasses that really blow it out of the water the almost every other class has that one (or 2 in some cases) subclass(es) that are just completely bonkers. But I really think that the misconception around Monk being bad stems from a misunderstanding of people thinking that monks are meant to be tanky frontliners with a high dpr, rather than a highly mobile striker that pops in, breaks concentration with a Flurry of Blows or lands a Stunning Strike, and gets out, not dissimilar to how a melee rogue is intended to be played as someone who goes in, lands the Sneak attack, and uses their disengage to get back out. Monks aren't meant to face tank things, and if you get in a situation where you have to tank, you have Patient Defense. I definitely feel this would be more obvious as the intent of the monk if Step of the Wind was something they could do for free like the Rogue, but it isn't so people see the melee-oriented monk and think (dpr frontline).
4:23 Rune Knights have Fire Rune which grant expertise in all tool proficiencies and a Rune Knight doesn't have to be the one with the tool proficiencies in question, they can just hand the person in question the item with the Fire Rune to benefit.
Think a trap is in a hallway? Summon Mount, send it down the hall.
"Summon wall of horse flesh" is a surprisingly versatile spell
Phantom Steed would be an even better solution since you could cast it as a ritual.
@@mattbriddell9246 looks like, yeah. I'll admit, I'm not as familiar with 5e as i am with previous editions or Pathfinder., so i didn't know that spell. Thanks for the heads up!
Advice for DMS:
1- Highlight traps. It sounds counterintuitive but hidden traps are RNG kills while highlighted traps become a challenge to overcome.
2- Never have a correct solution. Do not even create a solution. How the trap is overcome depends on the player's choices.
3- Traps should be optional. And hence, the reward to overcome it should be clear and deserving.
4- Add traps to your fight encounters.
Thank you for debunking a common party-role myth at last. I heavily appreciate this format and highly encourage you to continue with it. On the other hand, though, I hold the opinion that once you acknowledge that the only true boundary for problem-solving in dnd is the players' creativity, the concept of party roles itself becomes obsolete. Moreover, as much as you do not need a rogue to deal with traps, a barbarian or paladin can be competent at infiltration, contrary to the stereotypes you advocated in the party role ranking videos. You should not root out superstitions and prejudices only to sow them elsewhere.
I really like this idea of a DnD "Mythbusters"! You have addressed this in a few videos but I feel "How to Heal Without Being a Cleric" would be a good one
I once played in a one-shot where the party had to recover an artifact from a sunken temple. Very cliche, Indiana Jones style run. Fun though, except we almost didn't make it past the first room. I was playing a conjuration wizard, and managed to spot a pressure plate on a hallway floor. So I conjured up a big rock to just leave on the pressure plate. My plan was to let it sit there until the trap finished shooting off all its ammo. But the DM said that the trap doesn't run out of darts, ever.
So I proposed an alternate plan to the other players. I suggested we collect the darts that keep coming out of this trap. We could scrap the poison off each one, remove the feathers, and refine the raw steel from the body of the darts. Since the darts never run out, we could make and sell goods with an infinite supply of free raw material.
The DM just didn't want me to easily solve the first trap, so he said it had infinite ammo. No way was I letting that ruling go to waste.
The easy solution to this on the DM's end would be to say that the ammo appears to be infinite because it's being conjured by a magic powering the trap, and that the ammo dissipates an hour after being conjured by the trap. That said, still definitely a clever play to make lemons out of lemonade. ^^
There’s some good options available to PCs for traps and locks without necessarily invoking thieves tools. A portable battering ram, a crowbar, and an unseen servant rolling a 30 or 60 pound log in front of the party can go a long way.
Similarly, just recognizing why and where a trap might have been placed can tell you how to bypass it. An enemy base with a magical trap on the gate isn’t going to go off every time they send folks traveling, so check those outfits for some uniform piece of equipment they’re wearing that lets them pass through without setting it off.
Always the right time for Dungeon Dudes!
Monty- your note about Detect Traps not actually being able to detect traps made me realize I'd love to see a kind of "Broken Spells" video. I actually had no idea about that particular spell. Would love to hear others like it and your thoughts on them!
I absolutely LOVE this conversation! Thank you so much for shining the light of your attention to this.
I would like to see a how to run a campaign with a party without spellcasters. I think 5e makes it pretty hard to do so
The funniest way i witnessed a Druid picking a lock was maybe influenced by the Rule of Cool BUT it was a good Idea and here is what he did:
He took out a little branch he picked up in the Woods a little earlier and put it into the keyhole and influenced the branch with druidcraft so that he slowly made a fitting key out of it and opened the locked door, the DM ruled it took him essentially 10 minutes to do so but he let it happen.
If I was DMing, I'd have them roll a spellcasting ability check against the lockpicking DC.
Oh man, watching Monty casually handle that 3.5e PHB makes me nervous. Do you have ANY IDEA how expensive those are now? And that one looks like it's in great condition!
Is it so? I own one, never played it bcs couldn't find players for D&D.
@@Mythraelis 😂 snap!
@@Billsbury You want it? But it is in german.
@@Mythraelis nein danke. Mein Deutshce ist sehr schletht! 😜
I haven't looked up the price because I want to keep the 5 I have in case I want to run another 3.5 game and not have character creation be split by books. I kept getting them for 15 bucks.
Love the idea for a Myth-buster series! My suggestion would be reviewing the different classes ways to be an archer as the Ranger seems to be 'defaulted' to only using them
Thank you for doing these videos, Dudes, they are fun, informative and well made :D
Loved this episode! Thanks for the info along with all those in the comments!
Thank you for putting this video together. I like this idea of a series of typical assumptions - some assumptions that come to mind are - a "perfect" party or you need to have a healer in the party. Another is that everyone has to agree on what their version of fun in order to be playing together.
Yes please, make this a series! Also as a new dm thank you for discussing the four "what ifs" to consider when designing a trap
Great video guys!
"How to keep the party alive and healthy without a Cleric." That's my suggestion for the next video in this series (should you decide to do that).
There's so many ways to deal with a locked door. Our rougeless party has used "Silence" & and a crowbar for a sneaky entrance, "Reduce" to shrink a gate of its hinges, as well as "Enhance Ability" on our Loxodon member to quadruple his strength and rip open a literal vualt.
As for traps. Instead of trying to disarm a trap with the help of guidance, you could always assume you will fail and instead replace it with the resistance cantrip.
Some simple wrong myths:
Fighters are basic and boring.
Barbarian are brutes.
Clerics only heal.
Background are only good for the proficency bonusses.
Meele cantrips on a spellcaster are useless.
Wizard is the best class.
Idea for a video:
- Vehicle proficency. One of the rarest thing used in 5e.
Barbarian’s are just adreneline junkies Change my mind
I’m actually in the midst of making a vehicle prof podcast episode! It’s maybe a year out but it’ll exist eventually!
I know you've busted the myth via your actual live play. However pointing out that clerics do not need to be healers, thanks to Hit Die, feats and other class abilities would be a good one. Still an archetype that won't die.
I had a small rant about that today before the session started because a usual DM was playing and we couldn't decide on a character. We landed on a Divination Wizard that had 30HP +7 for false life. 😂
And yes, it was the "tank/Paladin" that kept going down.
I can answer this before even watching the episode. Have an Artificer on the party. High INT for investigation, and expertise in Thieves Tools from lvl6. A bunch of other utility options as well, like ritual casting Detect Magic, and creating a Wand of Secrets.
Great video as always!
I only want to argue on one point. I've been playing almost exclusively 3.5 for nearly 7 years, though you are absolutely right about the trapfinding ability that was required to find and disable advanced or magical traps, there are other classes besides the rogue that get access to it. One in particular is called the Beguiler who was also a full caster (pretty powerful).
Other than that I agree with everything else you pointed, keep doing a great job!
Our rogue never rolled higher than a 10 when looking for traps so we gave up on him and started tossing a goblin corpse down the hallway in front of us. The fighter, barbarian, and Paladin took turns and competed to see who could toss it the farthest.
Great video as always. There are many ways to deal with traps, sometimes even better than the Rogue or without some "rubbish" spell. Saludos desde Colombia 🤙🏽
17:50 inside the bag of holding while the thief is bypassing the traps, the party finds a few well preserved bodies from a previous party that was left inside the bag of holding when the holder of the bag met his unfortunate end....probably to a trap
Hey dudes! Since you have produved SO many high quality videos about all kinds of useful things in D&D 5e, how about a video about the best ways to use reactions when playing different classes? Action economy makes a character interesting as well as effective in combat, and reactions (and bonus actions too) don't come easy to all classes, I'm sure a lot of subscribers feel like me about that. Thanks for your great work, and keep on going!
Guys, your channel NEVER disappoints! Great content, I love your approach to things and your ability to shed more light into dark areas od DND world. Thank you!
Great video as always, side note arcane rogues can actually get detect magic with fey touched and use it with spell slots too.
"Hello (foe). We spare you. Now you will preceed us through this dungeon. Congratulations on this opportunity!"
The Rune Knight’s Fire Rune can give you expertise in thieves’ tools provided you already have proficiency with them. Just a fun FYI
Recently a party I ran a game for bypassed a trap I made. Trap was an obvious series of grates in the floor with a mechanism behind letting off a dangerous amount of heat, walking on them would deal damage. The party backtracked a couple rooms to retrieve some large washtubs they'd seen and made a bridge.
No rolls needed, on you go.
I played one of the early Artificers (from White Dwarf #68). That version certainly replaced the 1E Thief at Open Locks and Find/Remove Traps.
One trick I've used is animate the dead enemies and march them down the corridor in front of you, works for pit's, tripwires and pressure plates.
I'd like to see a video on when to use Investigation and when to use Perception. For me Investigation is used when there is active effort to find hidden things that may not be noticed by passive perception. Like locating a secret trap door beneath a rug, or finding what floor tiles are actually pressure plates. Perception for me is more for when there are already visual cues to notice, like the corner of the rug is folded over (from the last time the trap door was used), or there are blood stains on the walls of a trapped room. So they offer different information with Perception being more limited to things that are, well perceptible, and Investigation requiring deliberate effort, but finding things that aren't immediately perceptible.
I seem to recall a spell bases on the Bigby's hand spells created by Harkel Harplell in one of the Drizzt books called Bigby's Flicking Digits. Using that spell on skeletons into a trap area can deal with traps pretty easily. Especially if you have a good sense of humor.
crowbar, portable ram for opening, the regular dungeon empty barrel rolling down your corridor for finding is my go to
Otiluke's Resilient Sphere. Hamster ball for the win 😂
thats a cool idea for a series
I'm watching dungeons of Drakkenheim right now, and I love it! I feel like o have to watch all the way through before moving to the other adventures in Drakkenheim, but Monty seems unsure of how to pronounce the proper title of the murder holes. 😅 the correct pronunciation, as I understand it, it meh-chick-yew-lay-shuns or mer-ter-ear. The machicolations is the hole that pokes out past the walls to pour down upon assailants at the base of the wall. meurtrières are the holes that are on the floor of the walkway and ceiling of a passageway, such as walking through the gate and through the wall. Hope that helps!
A rune knight fighter with the fire rune that somehow got thieves tools can also get expertise in thievous tools
The myth that you absolutly need a cleric in a party kills me.
To paraphrase a certain blue draconic youtuber: "preventing damage is the most optimal form of healing."
If it kills you, who will cast revivify to get you back?
@@arcturuslight_ The thief Rogue with a spell scroll or one of the many spellcasting classes that could know or prepare the spell for emergencies without dedicating themselves to a healer support role.
@@TheHandgunhero There's actually only three classes that learn Revivify naturally: Artificer, Cleric, and Paladin. Artificer and Paladin won't get it until level 9, while Cleric gets it at 5. Sorcerer and Warlock can pick it as one of their very limited spells if they go Divine Soul/Celestial, Bard can pick it up at level 10 with Magical Secrets (or 6 as a Lore Bard), and Thief Rogue can use the scroll at level 13.
So out of your 'tons of options', two need a specific subclass, two can get it at double the normal level, one can go either way, and one can wait until a level which most players won't ever get to and pray it has an extremely rare item to do so.
@@Dramatic_Gaming Bard, Druid and Ranger all got Revivify added to the Additional granted spells list as per the rules of Tasha's Cauldron of Everything, which as of the recent Legacy carryover and changes are the official RAW rules for D&D now. This is demonstrated by the fact they are the mandatory interpretation of rules in all official D&D play such as Adventurer's League, and have been adopted as the rules by the vast majority of DMs.
So now almost half of the official classes (6 out of 13) have guaranteed potential to get Revivify and then tonnes of subclasses such as you mentioned. It's quite unlikely your party will not be able to access it due to party composition and honestly it's for the better as is all the content in Tasha's.
I joined a campaign with a bunch of martial characters and a cleric. I made a Vedalken wizard. Vedalken's Tireless Perfection allows you to be proficient with a tool set of your choice and when you use it you can add a d4 to the result. Sure, I only get a +2 from my Dex, but between Tireless Perfection and the Cleric's Guidance spell I can add 2d4 to the roll which makes a big difference.
I am having issues with this problem. Thanks for this video! My character takes the place of most of the rogue characteristics by being a gloomstalker and being the long range person in a fight. Having solutions definitely helps. One of the recent ways our group solved our trap triggering issues was by three of us having quarterstaffs and all of us having rope. We tied all three together with the rope and triggered the traps so we could make our way in. So basically we made a make shift ten foot pole. This worked perfectly. But this is an early mission and dungeon so I don’t expect this careful method to work forever. (This is what happens when you have a wizard and two outlander background characters in a party, an excess of quarterstaffs 🤣😅). Oh! And before this there was a puzzle that needed a humanoid hand. Well for that none of us were willing to sacrifice our own and we hadn’t found one along the way or prepared one for this type of use. So we broke an elf statue….we broke an elf statue’s hand and threw it into the brazier. Our dm was entertained enough that he made the result temporary instead of permanent but he still made it work to some degree. He said it’s the first time he has run that module and this was the solution the group came to. So yeah, sometimes you can just make your solution just entertaining enough to your dm to allow it. That works too.
I was playing a swashbuckler rogue and a party member was a fairy cleric. My rogue have her pitons to jam the gears of a wall crushing trap. DM wasn't expecting that
My party doesn't have a rouge, but I was pretty happy with solving this issue with seals locked with acid by using mage hand to manipulate a dagger to break the seals from a range.
We are a table of mostly newer players.
Love the point about how rogues don't need to be the Sole Arbiters Of Trap-Finding to be relevant any more, too. (One of my players I DM for plays a scout rogue who took the Skilled feat at 4th level, which means she has proficiency in more ability checks than I want to think about. I don't think she's joking about taking it again at level 8. Reliable Talent _terrifies_ me. Rogues are POWERFUL -- and so is every other class, which was the point of this episode!)
Love the idea of more mythbusting episodes, and I look forwards to seeing more! Most of the myths I can think of have more to do with RP than mechanics (paladins _have_ to be uptight jerks or their powers stop working, a bard's charisma _always_ manifests as flirty seduction, etc), which might be harder to do an episode on but I'd be keen to watch if you did. There's also the perennial standby, "darkvision is awful, everybody has it nowadays, stealth is useless now because you can't hide in the shadows if every single enemy henchman can always see through them!", but that hardly seems like a whole episode.
The one I keep coming back to as a DM I think is the pervasive idea that _death_ is the only threat in D&D that has any meaning. "If I don't think the characters could die at any minute, there are no stakes," I hear people say, and that's...not how stakes work.
(...of course, if you really want to open a D&D Myths can of worms, you can always give your take on the Matt Mercer Effect, but maybe _don't_ bring that comments section upon yourselves.)
Death definitely isn’t the only threat in D&D that has any meaning. It often isn’t even the hardest to remedy. Drop a few thousand gold at the right temple and death can be overcome. A lot of times even things like captivity are way harder to deal with.
On the evolution: the original Tomb of Horrors (which the version in Tales of the Yawning Portal is a fairly 1:1 reprint of, or close to, the original adventure. It doesn't have the feature I've seen in Tomb of Annihilation and also Dungeon of the Mad Mage, which is, the dungeon designer has thought of all the ways a modern party can bypass it all with magic, and made it so that that simply doesn't work. The walls, floors, ceilings etc are all shielded against transmutation magic, so you can't shape them, glide through them, or teleport through past them, nor can you teleport in or out, and will probably get sent to the mage-killing room specially designed to deal with teleporters and summoned help. Scrying and divination magic is also useless to the means of getting extraplanar answers. I don't recall if Darkvision, True Seeing, Blindsight or any of those "sight" spells are affected or not. But they have these lists front-and-centre for when you are ready to head into the dungeon.
These countermeasures certainly weren't necessary in the earliest days of the game, that's for sure. But each book that introduces a new spell, a new way of solving problems, means the game has to ultimately change to reflect that, at least when it's a meaningful addition to the fundamental way D&D simply is.
Totally agree. DC 30 checks.
Fun fact: in the game I run our tempest cleric is the rogue. We have a ranger, a barbarian and 2 wizards, but our cleric who has a criminal background (she was a smuggler) is the one that deals with traps and locked doors. It's wonderfully hilarious whenever it comes up and she usually does well to disarm traps.
I've used Shape Water to move blobs of water onto tiles, full then freeze locks, build ice bridges. Great utility cantrip.
A magical weapon you can provide from a trap is the magical drive gear. As the trap falls apart one of the axles with gears attached at eather end one larger than the other. It's clearly a different material than the rest of the trap. You find there's two different ways to attune to this "thing" You can shift its power to a three times a day polymorph motorcycle or a one handed great club instead. If however you have spent one of its charges it's only a club until you finish a long rest even if you change your attunement by re attunement. (Artificers can recharge it with level two spell slots as a free action.)
Dex-based artificer with infusions for gloves of thievery and headband of intellect can roll d20 + 2xPB + 5 + 5 + 1d4(guidance) + 4(flash of genius), possibly with advantage (per XGtE if other tool proficiencies apply).
So the dm needs to make the trap DC 35 to make it challenging?
I like the idea of a series busting myths about the game. Here are several common ones.
Myth #1: fighters are basic, boring, and outclassed by other martial characters.
Myth #2: clerics are healers (a.k.a. every party needs a healer).
Myth #3: spellcasters are always squishy.
Myth #4: rangers are underpowered (maybe in the past, but not so much anymore).
Myth #5: optimized play and good roleplay are mutually exclusive.
Myth #6: doing damage is the most important thing to do in combat.
Kelly love that shirt. That is one of my favorite Twilight Zone episodes!
Wilhelm’s Rules #26 Expect everything is a trap. It probably is. Without a rogue, we could just have the barbarian tank the damage, bash the door, etc.
Edit: Kelly chose a different rule, LOL. More can be said about charismatic visitor such as James Bond. He walked in the front door and gave his real name. That is a highly skilled character, and thinking about how viable Bond would be as a character in 5e.
It tickles me that Bond isn't a spy; he's a moving target. M, "Okay, Bond, we think something is up in Monte Carlo. We want you to go over there and see who tries to kill you."
bond is an awful spy, by the VERY SECOND MOVIE the ussr has a picture of his face and spectre is able to create a full replica rubber mask of him
dog they know what you look like you’re sacked
@@Hazel-xl8in I think the point is that he is mostly a highly-elusive assassin. As in Dex 20+ with Evasion, Uncanny Dodge, and the Lucky feat.
The story I always tell to people is about a one shot where I played a half-orc barbarian in 3.5
We started in a prison with no equipment, no gear or anything. To open the door, my barbarian just repeatedly bashed at the cell door until it made so much noise that guards came in, then I grabbed one to hold him against the door while the other players bashed at him until he died and we got the keys.
After that, there was a long spiraling stair case, my barbarian stepped down first and triggered a trap that sent a dart into his stomach. After that, he went brute force again and, ripped a door out from the cells, smashing each step with it to trigger traps while going down the stairs, making quite an hilarious moment as the rest of the group were discussing the situation and in the background they could hear "Bang! Bang! shit!" as there were some gas sprays as well.
When they were done talking, my guy was waiting for them down the stairs.
There was also the part where, to find a hidden passage, we grabbed large vials of acid and threw them at the walls until we found something that lead further.
And just to say, the scenario did have our gear available in the prison, it's just that none of us thought to go up the stair case to find what was there and find the weapons and gear that would have been taken from us. We beat the scenario with improvised weapons and smart plays (like beating the final boss magician with my barbarian restraining him in a grapple again and preventing him from making any somatic components while the team beat him up again.)
TL DR: There's no need for a rogue when you have spells!
i think moving forward WOTC needs to find ways to make rogues more relevant given that everybody and their mother has spells now and they keep releasing more and better spells with each book. sneak attack isn't enough as other strikers have similar options that scales as well as sneak attack or better (especially with sneak attack being limited to one attack and rogues having 1 attack). i'd like to see the return of a trapmaster type where a rogue (or a ranger) who specializes in inflicting conditions without resorting to spells.
my top 5 myths:
1. you need a wizard to have an effective controller (or the wizard is the best controller)
2. you need a cleric to have an effective healer (or the cleric is the best healer)
3. you need a tank/frontliner to have an effective party/mitigate enemy offense
4. you need a charisma based class to be an effective face (is succeeding at social challenges really a product of the numbers or good RPing and player intelligence?)
5. ALL direct dmg spells are inferior to control spells
@@1dbvvdb1 for the exploration aspect sure i can see that. for combat though both classes are still useful.
the stealth/ambush playstyle really works best when the whole party is doing it (instead of sending a scout up ahead) and contributing towards it. for example:
ranger: casts pass without trace to boost party stealth
warlock: casts misty visions to provide the party mobile obscurement
sorc: spams minor illusion to make the illusion more believable or control flames to turn off torches
cleric: spams guidance for the party member with the lowest stealth or thaumaturgy for distraction
Really liked this Video, following the 4 pillars (Fighter, Cleric, Wizard, Rogue) was very important in 3.5 but I think it is less restrictive now, it is very hard to run an adventure without healing abilities but we did run a one shot in which we had a fair amount of combat and 0 healing abilities... we did roll a fair number of 20's on death saves though.
I would like to see more of the Dudes thoughts on the myths of 5e though I am not sure which myths I'd like to see discussed.
Loved seeing the 3rd edition handbook, I have spent many a year flipping through the pages of mine :)
in my current campaign, we have no designated healer... we have a druid with delusions of being a ranger (actually Circle of Sacrifice from the campaign setting, but in love with his oath bow), a Oath of Vengeance Paladin, a College of Lore Bard, my a celestial Warlock with Pact of the Tome all doing the healing as needs arise, with our rogue, monk and barbarian just being useless as usual ;o)
Yes, i know, its a very large group, but as our DM focuses on social and environmental encounters and only a boss battle every now and then,m it works pretty well ( also the fact, that almost alwaqys one player has conflicting appointments and no time to show, is not essential for sessions to happen, lets call it redundancy )
@@belegur8108 There is a big difference between not having a character who can heal in the group and not having a dedicated healer but over half of the group being capable of healing to be honest.
I do agree though you don't need a dedicated "healbot" in the group for 5e but that is mainly because quite a lot of characters have access to healing abilities if they want them
@@harrywhiteley89 no healing is very hard, no doubt, but even with a full healer in the group, if what i always hear is true and WotC calculate an average of 4-6 battles between long rests... thats quiet ridiculous in my view...
@@belegur8108 the DMG expects 4-6 encounters a day, but no written adventure I've read runs that hot. The thing that you might actually be more surprised at is the fact they expect you to reach level 20 withing about 35 adventuring days... I mean 5e combat is generally in the player's favour and it can be done, but I personally think that adventures should be less intense than that.
@@harrywhiteley89 35 adventuring days? wow, thats what i call early retirement ;o)
Thank you.
Just have a wizard cast wall of force in any suspicious hallways all around said hallway, so that nothing bad will happen!
Nice watch
I agree with the Design section, bc when you have a Rogue with expertise & reliable talent in thieves tools & stealth, most times you see the party default to the rogue instead of trying a useful way themselves
I haven’t watched the video yet (I will) but my favorite thing to do is ritual cast unseen servant to walk ahead setting everything off and having a tiny spider familiar scout ahead.
You forgot about Rune Knights during your discussion of how to get expertise in tool proficiencies, as the Fire Rune’s passive just gives you expertise in all of your tool proficiencies. Since they gain access to this feature from as early as level 3, a Dex based Rune Knight who takes thieves tools as one of their background proficiencies is probably just as good as a Rogue - or better since many rogues don’t put their expertise in thieves tools - at disarming traps. Granted, they may not be the best at FINDING traps, but Perception is a far more common skill for a party to have in spades, so I feel like it’s not a big deal.
Bag of Tricks helped my bard get through the Tomb of Horrors!
19:51 love that connection, but i think the orc is part of the dark brotherhood in oblivion
I ALWAYS pick expertise in thieves tools as a Rouge. It also applies to your passive skills to find them as well
Great stuff as always, I'd love to see a Gentleman Thief build or famous character concept builds (for example, I'm building Han solo and chewie for a game, I wonder how you would do that).
Anyway, keep up the great content.
Han Solo would mechanically be a Thief Rogue, but you could probably also go a Beastmaster Ranger with a pistol.
@@TheHandgunhero interesting. I've actually gone with Han Solo as a scout rogue with smuggler background with a hand crossbow. The nature and survival stuff are all part of his "smuggling" repertoire. Chewie is actually his own separate character rather than Hans pet, I'm currently looking at Barbarian.
I like the suggestions though, thanks man 🙂
My wizard took the Urchin background to get theives tools proficiency as we didn't have a rogue. And now can cast Knock.
4:27 i know it is not called expertise, but rune knight's fire giant rule lets you add double your proficiency modifier to checks with tools you are proficient in
I was in a campaign where we found an indestructible 6ft diameter sun disk (permanent daylight spell). The barbarian ripped it from it's display, and would roll it down hallways to detect traps.
Myth: purple worm Knight is a valued and powerful suclass, and has a diverse set of abilities in its package.
In 3-3.5 Objects had Hardness, Iron/steel had 10 hardness and 35 HP per inch of thickness. Well an Adamantine weapon, ignores the hardness of 19 or lower. I had a fighter with a two-handed Adamantine hammer he lovingly called "Door Knocker", 1-2 "knocks" and the door wasn't there anymore, he also noticed that often when a door is magically hardened to resist such tender caresses, the wall next to the door wasn't. Where there was a will, there was a fighter with an Adamantine Hammer, making a way.
I ran a 7th lvl barbarian in my first dnd campaign that ended up being called the locksmith with a +1 resistance to trap dmg. My maul was the master key, and the world was my treasure chest 🙏🏾
It took some creative design by the DM after he just realized I was going to try to break everything. He would send ambushes and rust monsters after me
I got hit by so many damn poison needle traps and shot in the face with so much fire lmaoooo
Thats where the +1 originated from as kind of a joke, but it stuck
A huge myth to busy would be clerics are only healers. Most new people look at the classes as basic cut and paste abilities like rogue is thief, cleric is healer. So many other classes are better healers, like rogues with the healer kit and potions zipping across the battle
The more I watch the video, the more I LOVE the hat.
I one time had the party druid use mold earth on the stone around the door as the rogue was trying to pick the lock then just pushed the door over. Later summoned a herd of elk to stampede through a trap filled hall. The barbarian already said no to stealth.
As I read the rules, Rogues should typically be best at finding traps (assuming they took the relevant proficiencies) because, the fact that they have proficiency in thieves tools should give them advantage on insight or perception checks to find traps (as per Xanathar's Guide). Of course, this would apply to anyone with proficiency with Thieve's Tools.
Strangely, I rarely see typical traps come up in our campaign. Between our observant gunslinger spotting everything in the verse he also has thieves tools with his tinkers tools. And to make that even more fun I did what I usually do with characters and also became proficient in thieves tools, and because I knew he would be a gunslinger, tinker's tools. So just about every roll is advantage through assistance.
I made a high Con hill dwarf Barbarian/Monk with Tough and Rage reflavored as Drunken Fighting. He dealt with traps by triggering them. This was the preferred method since only one character in the party had Intelligence higher than 8. 🙂 Side note on Kelly's shirt: "That's not fair. That's not fair at all. There was time now. There was... was all the time I needed. That's not fair. *sob* That's not fair."