As an adult, one of the things that baffles me in hindsight is how many times adults expected me to be more empathetic and to have more self control than the freaking ADULT.
And worse, this adulting expectations were conditional. With my parents I had to behave like their parent (especially narc one) but to my younger siblings who are a decade younger than me I had to be a childlike playmate. This and more just exemplified my dissonance, see that now.
@@anushkajariwala129 Yea! Same for me… This was one of the overarching traps my narc stepdad had me in, especially when he and my mom had their two daughters. After age 9 my life was just a clusterfck of double binds, double standards and scapegoating… my mom acts like he saved us, but I feel like she sacrificed me.
Mine STILL does this coming to my house! I've been out of her home for almost 20 years and she still occupies all the air in the room when she comes here. I will NOT go to her house.
You described, to a T, the stressful situation I grew up with. My Father made a serious announcement, and attempt to leave the marriage, while I was in college. I am the one who naively flipped out and reminded him of his wedding vows, and verses from the Bible, and that he was not a man of his word. I was confused and didn’t understand his pain because my dysfunctional family system was the only way I knew. He hung in there , miserable and depressed, out of duty and old school honor. He did listen quietly and with understanding to confidential conversations I had with him (as my children got older), that I could no longer bear the anxiety my demanding N. mother was creating. He used to shake his head sadly, almost in tears, saying he could not find even a moment of peace in his home, and he often visited my home to have a couple days of freedom. He is now deceased, and there are so many conflicting emotions at him and even myself for the whole ugly, strife filled upbringing and N. family system that i am still trying to escape. It was a no win situation for him, me, and my siblings.
Insanely difficult to empathize with the alleged "normal" parent after decades of being ignored while fully in favor and supportive of the narcissistic parent.
@@musicandpoetry_8 What you are echoing is exactly the feelings of so many victims of narcissistic abuse. For decades, like yourself, I believed my enabler mother was so marvelous because she seemed always ready and willing to placate my horrific father. I also believed she was doing this to benefit the family. After her death, I realized that she was never there for me. She never had my back. Her loyalty was to her narcissistic husband first. And then to her narcissistic golden child secondly. It was very confusing at the time. But, now, everything is crystal clear. My thinking has completely changed. I don't miss her one bit. While difficult and painful, you may find yourself going down the same path. Having a complete change of your beliefs. I wish you well. I know first hand how tough a journey it will be...😑
@@jaykram7754 "After her death, I realized that she was never there for me. She never had my back. Her loyalty was to her narcissistic husband first." Same thing happened to me as my mom was dying of cancer. I thought that she would break free and change the "speed dial" so that I would be #1 with the time she had to live. But instead, she worried about what my dad would do after she died. And I saw with my own eyes and heard with my own ears that she was going to breathe her last breath thinking of him, not me. And that's what happened, as she told my dad in her last hour, "I don't wanna leave you." Not "y'all." "You" -- my dad. And that's what he remembered. I was supposedly the only "planned" child of three, which my mom AND dad, told me, but I was always going to be a planet in their "binary star" system. And I'm sure that when my dad dies that he and she will have a private suite in Heaven. I'll get my own place, I hope...with my dog, who really was more like a mom than my mom was to me. I grieved when my dog died than when my mom died.
It's a shame innocent children have to suffer for the bad choices adults make. Adults are suppose to protect their children. No one is safe in a narcissistic family system. Children are scarred for life.
L lakes - I don’t think adults purposely made ‘bad choices’ - I tried to protect my children but had no idea who I was dealing with at my age from 24 to 30 (when 4 kids were born) - I am 74 now and if I knew then what I know now- none of this would have happened. Sometimes the parent is just as innocent as the child - who knew?
People trying to heal a narcissistic family system while being part of that family being controlled by a narcissist does not often get justice in family court. However any effort at all made without getting in the mud called revenge with the narcissist in trying to heal a narcissistic family system is better than none [Except falling for the notion that some weeks of court ordered therapy is going to change the narcissist].
@@karenkaren4978 It seems that's the way young 'adults' are today ~ they take everything you have given them, but with absolutely no appreciation. If she has abandoned you and scorned your name ~ and is now abusing you, the parent who was there for her child ~ she/he will have to answer to God for this someday. I know it hurts so much and my heart goes out to you. Life is not always fair.
I didn’t realize til a couple months ago that my nicer parent co-signed on all the abuse, took no responsibility, and was actually narcissistic too. I was parentified, gaslighted, minimized, all the techniques the other one did, but in a “kinder” way. I’m no contact with both parents now.
currently having this realization. I thoughts its my father but now I realized the voice that criticized me all along and the person who overstepped my boundaries the most was my mother whom I idolized for so long. I cried for hours when the wall came crushing down but I fell so much happier now realizing this, as it opens a door for me to make even better choices for myself. Much love to you I hope you heal from this.
After a therapy session I managed to tell my dad "it would have been your responsibility as a father to protect us children". That lifted a big burden off my shoulders, because I had always felt responsible to protect him and my brother. To finally utter that words towards him, helped me a lot.
Same here with my mom. I genuinely thought she was the good parent, only to find out later in life that she is also narcissistic and scarred me worse than my overt narc dad did. It's cray how many of us share these very similar experiences.
Wow same exact story here. Thought my mom was the nicer parent and victim to my grandiose dad. Turns out she was a covert narcissist and just like with hellknit101 here, scarred me worse than he did.
Eh if my dad admits it eventually I forgive him. Narcissistic wasn't even a thing when he got married. He is currently not taking any crap and it's great 😆
Yea but if they stand up for you they imagine their consequences. My wife lays down all the rules for the house we have a 2 yo if I don't agree with something r even if I suggested something I am told to f*** off back to where I came from, which is another country and then not be part of my sons life. Not only this but she gets my house that she made me buy.
@@munterboy9298 I hope your son grows up realizing you loved him enough to endure all this for him and I hope you can find a way to break free if possible. It's never easy standing up to cruel people, specially if you're afraid someone you love will get hurt. Hang in there❤ My case is a bit different. I'm the first born so as I grew older I tried defending my other parent and then my siblings. Specially my siblings, I couldn't sit still and watch them endure the abuse I went through. But what pained me the most was my other parent telling me to follow their example and keep quite and bow down to the narcissist. I love them and I wish the best for them but sometimes I wish they loved themself enough to leave before my younger siblings were born.
Oh I feel this. Especially when the other parent completely checked out. In my family, my Dad has ended up an alcoholic due to the dynamic, so he has totally disengaged. When he does choose to engage, all he does is enable in an effort to stop the drama- he hates the conflict.
She laid out my childhood exactly how I experienced it and still do. At almost 30, I still can’t get my “normal” parent to hear me. I am currently grieving the loss and trying to move on.
I moved on and the enabler parent died and the a narcissist continues to be alive, COVID took the enabler and the narcissist shares no blame, responsibility and no empathy. Less than 2 weeks her death, he was trying to rush me into getting the monies divided up, after that, he tried to dangle gifts that will never be received. I haven't spoken with him and am currently in therapy, I didn't know I was dealing with these types of parents until recently. You will still feel grief when they die, but by far, best choice I've ever made was to cut them off.
They won't listen because they avoid accountability, they are unable to answer the question "why did you allow that to happen?" They believe that if they don't admit, they are not guilty
Also in my 30s, I am in your boat! I am currently trying to get my “normal” mom to understand why I don’t want to be around my dad. She makes all the excuses and refuses to see my pain. It’s a hard place to be but you are not alone!
i am 38 and my enabler mom hurt me sayin she loves my dad like i am not exist at all… it is so hard so hard. i choose no contact. till they die my pain will never healed
At least you know it wasn't you and that the pain is totally justified from being at the mercy of two unaware and totally screwed up parent so eventually it becomes our choice whether or not to focus on pain or moving on by letting go.
Kaleen Hird, I got on my phone to look at something else. I feel YOU today with your post. I couldn't click fast enough with this vid myself. I'm going through this with all 3 of my emotionally abused adult children. My ex never touched them. He certainly abused me physically and emotionally., but NEVER in front of them. The ex terrorized all of us. It was like living in a cult! Ya know, this part hurts worse than even their sadistic dad's abuse of me. All other relationships amongst me and me children were utterly destroyed. I've left the whole thing in God's Hands. God has my children's backs, as He's always had mine. My children aren't narcissistic. They ALL went on to be abused by other varying abusers. It breaks my heart that I didn't know better, the dynamics, nor damage of people disordered like this. And for crying out loud, there's SO MANY in the world! But hey, this was ALL in God's Word! It truly is. Word for word accurate!! A warning Written thousands of years ago that it WOULD be EXACTLY as we're seeing today. I get it now, finally. But it doesn't make it hurt any less...........
I saw the title and almost started crying. I was actually trying to work out this very thing with my therapist, but my therapist didn’t really understand Narcissism .
What is it called: a non-narcissistic mother who doesn't acknowledge HER PART for all her children in this "whole thing" of still STAYING in this narcissistic relationship for 50 years, where all the kids will not even visit her anymore? (of course, money is just an excuse). I wonder what it is called...Or maybe it just doesn't have a specific "name"...don't know if it is co-dependent, because she lives her life also well outside the house "socially"...and she doesn't even like him, btw!
My non narcissistic parent continually threw me under the bus- still does- to keep the wrath focused on me and avoid being the narcissists scapegoat. They both still make me furious for how messed up I am. Took me decades to figure out why I’m so traumatized. And they will never have a clue. Everyone in the family and community thinks they’re “wonderful people,” and aren’t I lucky to have such awesome parents 😢
Even as an adult, I stay in my room to avoid her at all costs and am elated when I do come out not to see her car in the garage..... highlight of my day
This is crazy! This is me. In fact, I looked out the windows this morning to check and was excited and relieved to see her car gone so I could just have breakfast and watch these videos in peace. The pandemic brought me back home to live with my mother, well, she lives with my older sister her who is the narcissist she trained her to be as her golden child. I was the truth teller, and because of how I was tormented for that growing up I’ve always said I’d quite literally live in my own car before ever living in a house with those two again and I wholeheartedly MEANT it. I felt like life tricked me or something because I came from NY to visit my younger sister (invisible child) and nephew and bam! The pandemic hits, total lockdown and I’m trapped in my worst nightmare living with my two childhood abusers the people who worked overtime to completely break my childhood spirit. But now, I think I’m here to evolve further. I hadn’t realized how much I’d already grown in the years away from them…and neither did they. They can see it too and don’t have the power they used to have over me. None of their old tactics work the same and I have a voice now and I USE IT. I can see now how fragile and weak they are, nothing to be afraid of or hurt by like my child self believed. It’s all clearly still a work in progress cause I was happy as shit to wake up to BOTH of their cars gone today, lol, but I guess I said all this to say there is growth and I believe we can ultimately be free of the Narcs in our lives in a healthy way. I believe, with the healing work I’ve been doing, that when I leave them this time I will be completely mentally, emotionally, and spiritually free from them with no resentment, anger, or bitterness towards them. Just free. That’s REAL freedom. I used to have doubts about cutting them off completely when I left before - family obligation and blah, blah - but this next time, once I’m out of here, I feel I can leave with peace within myself, instead of that chaotic need to escape, and I’m confident going no contact and never looking back! Side note: Dr. Ramani’s comments section is surprisingly like group therapy (which I can’t afford) isn’t it? There’s always somebody’s comment that strikes me right in the heart. Be reading RUclips comments crying and shit, lol 🙄 then having to process my feelings. I find reading these comments extremely helpful though, ❤️ y’all.
i had to move back to mom and dad to get away from the even worse ex lol and if they are ever both out of the house at the same time i literally turn the music up and start dancing
This is the first time in my life I hear an explanation for the pain and anger I’ve felt my whole life towards my non-narcissistic parent. THANK YOU. I’ve lived in shame of these feelings and unable to understand, short of blaming myself and thinking I’m evil. Today I can weep and breathe and start a healing process. Again, THANK YOU.
I was not angry i kind of felt things were.about to get better , but then he got sick and died 3.months later. Thats my closure. I am so happy that Dr Ramani shares these videos because it helps me understand a lot of missing pieces
For years I was angry at my father for not sufficiently defending us, but through therapy I realized he was a victim also. If he had left my abusive mother she would've been granted primary custody and we would've been in her total power.
I never felt angry at my father, I always saw him as a victim of my mother. He did what he could when I was an adult to give me support. He took also a very bad part of the narcissism of my mother and suffered a lot.
Yes! My biggest fear was to lose custody of my children. The narcissist came from a strong family that I felt powerless against. I chose to continue the relationship with the narcissist, which meant I gave my children the best life that I could give them.
“It is a complicated grief stew of love, anger, shame, guilt, frustration, and a childlike wish of wanting and wishing it were different.” Exactly. Brilliantly said.
Definitely feels like how I feel. I've definitely had that conversation with my therapist. So yep. Add other forms of abuse on top of that and you have a mess (er, my life). Trauma therapy helps me a lot though.
It is very important to let go of your anger and grief at some point, so that you can move on and live your life. Detachment is the key to happiness and success.
No biggey, they were never there for you anyway, easier for *them* to *disappear* than deal with her anymore. How the heck does that help you? Where are *you* supposed to go but to more crap!
Yes, true. It's also true that when you've been through some of of the things I, at least, have, I think it's normal for that to come back and visit from time to time. As long as you don't stay there, I think it's ok to have that anger come back again occasionally.
On the contrary, working through your emotions and processing them with people who see, know and care for you is far more beneficial to growing and living a more connected life. Grey rock the narcs but detaching from life long term is unhealthy.
@@lilbertsmom3561 my dad helped another family, came out of the bushes once I turned ate teen. Well I was seriously busy the night of his wake, best thing I ever did was stay home instead of dragging wanna be hubby and kids there, I was recuperating from having helped covert mom with surgery, skipped on getting any of his stuff either! When his step-son (weren't even married) put me under pressure to be there because he wanted to show his gratitude for how much dad had done for them I said "Exactly when he should have been doing for me and my mom".... Then older overt coke head sis accuses me of not of having handled it very well. See ya never everyone!
I have managed to cut almost all ties with the narcissistic parent and finally breathe for the first time in my life. But the occasional waves of anger with the other parent who did not protect me from the abuse for so long are much harder to overcome.
Speaking for "other parent," I am so, so sorry. No child (or anyone) should have to experience what you have. I hope you can find forgiveness for the adult who felt "stuck" in a relationship with a vindictive monster.
Today I reached the realization she would never choose us. Not her kids. Not her grandkids. Just that "stability" being offered. I always thought it was strange that my father was so competitive with us, his children. I didn't realize we were actually losing this whole time. That recognition of betrayal has changed me permanently. I just never had the words for it before.
“When people tell you “oh just let it go. It’s in the past.” They don’t understand. They don’t understand because that past shapes your present” I needed this video. I just want to connect to those that don’t even have to do as much work as unlearning the justification & rationalizing of a narc parent. But the whole “the past doesn’t define your future” thing didn’t quite help me acknowledge all the pain, alienation, and divide caused by the narc parent.
I have learned that the ones who say that, the ones who say oh just leave it in the past. They themselves are also narcissists and are guilty of doing the same things.
My non-narc parent didn't have the means to leave until I was 13, and we lived in poverty afterward. Having had a narc marriage myself gave me even more respect for how hard it was to get out.
Thank you for this. Blaming the abused parent causes double damage. Coping with own emotions is important. But trying after that to understand how it worked can bring better insight for oneself, forgiving and peace with the abused parent. My own story is complicated. I'm the abused parent. But I couldn't identify the nature of this abuse. I remember once saying to a therapist that I felt like an abused wife, "beaten" with words (my ex-husband has never physically beaten me). Her answer made this idea irrelevant and I thought for years that I was wrong about it. I have sometimes heard that I was exagerating and "making him black". I made my best to protecting our 4 children against bad words and always taking their feelings seriously, listening, comforting, giving them the right to feel what they felt. But I couldn't avoid the damages. I see their suffering. One of them has broken the relationship with me for 4 years. It hurts in all ways. I'm 61 and have been married 35 years long. Just happy to have been alone for those last 4 years. I am coping too with my own mistakes, fears and blindness. But I can't change the past. I'm just facing now (!) the concept of narcissistic abuse. Nerver heard before in the mouth of the many therapists I've seen. My faith in God became stronger. He freed me of this toxic marriage and heals my heart and makes me stronger, step for step. All my prayers are for my children now. Blessings.
@@thereseservais924 I have BPD, am 22 now. I can understand you position. My mother is in a similar position, yet she doesn‘t seem to even want to open her eyes at this point. Both my siblings have struggled immensely over the past few years. I finally made the decision to confront only my father, after I saw how much anger I took out on my mother, simply because she was and is always there for us, in her own way. She made mistakes, yes. So have I. I wasn‘t always an easy child to deal with and I do think narcissistic people do deserve compassion also, but you cannot open their eyes through compassion and love sadly. Usually it has to be terror, the cold hard truth, which hurts all involved involuntary. Thats why most decide to simply walk away and turn their backs, most often for too long. So don‘t ever give up on your kids, they haven’t given up on you, even if it seems. ❤️
@@funemployed468 Thank you. Nice to hear from "the other side". To loose one child this way is worse than to loose a husband. But my hope remains. Blessings. 😍
@@funemployed468 I really don't like the term 'difficult' child and I know Dr.Ramani has often used it. I've been labelled a 'difficult' child myself and in fact my mother said that both had found me difficult to deal with because of my anger outbursts. Firstly, how can ANY healthy being not get angry when treated unfairly?? Secondly... Really??? A difficult child? Perhaps I should have been seen and not heard. I don't like this term. What I try to say... from a non easy child to another... How we were dealt is not on us. It's not fair that it happened and we cannot carry this guilt on. I know I won't.
the "healthy" parent most likely are empaths who grew up with a narcissist parent too who emotionally beat them down to make them attracted to the same abuse that is destroying their children. They were conditioned throughout childhood and now with their narcissist to accept the abuse as "normal" and to give excuses for their spouse. A lot of times the "healthy" parent are part of the abuse because they turn a blind eye to the abuse, accept the gaslighting as the truth, and mentally scaring their children forever. Now the child will think this abuse is normal, attract a narcissist or develop to be a narcissist themselves because that is their reality..and the cycle continues.
Thank you Dr. Mommy err I mean Ramani, for what felt like another hug. No one really bears witness to children of narcissistic family dynamics as you do. Thank you for your channel, these materials are such a precious resource!
OMG! I distinctly remember talking on the phone to my best friend and she saying" What's wrong, is your dad home?" I said, 'Yeah, why?', perturbed. She said, 'I can always tell when he's around because you are different on the phone. You completely change.' I was shocked and nervous, I felt like someone found out a secret. The things we endured was not supposed to be known to the outside world. I was dumbfounded that someone knew how much he changed the air in a room. OMG, thank you for speaking for all of us who endured an emotional tortured childhood and are trying to heal our shit as adults! May God bless you!
In my case, I always knew my main abusive parent was like a shark and will always do shark things. What still enrages me is what should have been the safe parent was not the lifeguard, but someone chumming the water, throws you in, then blames you and make excuses for the shark. Even the enablers are just as abusive as your main narc and should be all cut out accordingly
Please realise that sometimes making excuses for them is because the non narc parent may have been trying to protect you. You can't tell a child that a parent doesn't love them. That is child abuse too.
These partners can come in pairs, overt and covert narcissism. Covert is almost impossible to identify unless you know exactly what to look for. My mother was so nice to everyone, just a complete angel but at home very passive aggressive and so sneaky!!
We knew something wasn't right, it takes an expert to help us *figure it out*, unless we met others who've been equally tormented and hopefully left fuvked-up by our parent there's no help whatsoever, we get *Why can't you just get along?*, 😲!
Yes...you're right. Cause the overt one is so in your face, you don't notice how sneaky , cowardly and manipulating the other one is. It becomes clearer when the overt one dies...you can be seriously shocked.
@@lejci38 yep the covert is the victim so it fits well with their narrative. They're also abuse enablers by proxy. I understand that some cultures you can't leave but in the US divorce has been normalized for 40+ years. The covert is likely the one who didn't work and complain they can't work, "the victim" again... Everyone feels sorry for them.
I think we call them massochists (they like abuse), covert narcissists is more manipulative (machiavelic). I am takling about thee pictute I have until now. A massochist dont care for the toxic behaviour because there is a possibity to like the toxicity of his her partener, but this topxicity maybe be unberable for the people that are not narcissistic supplies
I don't have any contact with both my parents anymore, even though they are divorced. The divorce made everything ao much uglier and more painful. The custody fight went on for 4 years and my narcissistic parent won it. I cut my narcissistic parent off and sat down with my other parent, who was willing to hear me without interruptions. I wasn't gaslighted that night, but a few months ago I announced to this parent I was going to get married. My narcissistic parent wasn't invited, of course and my other parent tried to gaslight me into inviting them. Solely because I stood my ground and honestly explained why I would not budge and why their behaviour bothered me, they cut me off too. I honeslty let go of that quite quickly. If you defend your narcissistic ex, almost 10 years after divorcing them, to your child of whom you've heard the whole story, then there's frankly no hope for this relationship anymore...
@@sosyrobinson2636thank you for this. They didn't show up. The date of our wedding changed after breaking off contact. I've now been married for almost 4 years and my husband and I have a 2-year-old. They've never seen our son, had nothing to do with my pregnancy. I sometimes miss them, especially when things get hard and lonely, but I'm so much better off without them.
It's horrendous the damage a narcissistic parent inflicts on the family, especially children. Its taken me some time to understand this, since my epiphany at age 60+. When I look back it breaks my heart. The past is the past, but I'm still angered when I think of all the cruelty inflicted on the children.
My dad was as much a victim of my narcissistic mother as I was. He did the best he could for us and her while having his own world turned upside down as well. If you haven’t experienced narcissistic abuse, there is little to prepare you for what it feels like when you’re on the inside. He is an empathic type. He never stood a chance against her. In talking with him now that we both know more about narcissistic abuse, he stayed because he was afraid of leaving us (9 of us) alone with her if they separated sooner.
yeah 😭😭😭my father endured decades of abuse and torture from my malignant narcissist mom. He just passed away. She robbed me of a beautiful dad daughter relationship for the last 15 years. 😡going zero contact. The only reason i had some communication with her it was because of him. At this point I don’t give a flying fu ck what happens to her after the funeral. She never cared and she never will.
I can’t begin to tell you how painful this vid was. I am the codependent parent. I had no idea!! Thank you, thank you for sharing this video! I wish I had someone to talk to and sort this out!
Please contact a therapist that specializes in narcissistic abuse. Don’t try to do this alone and please don’t let this slide. You could save your kids a lifetime of mental and physical illnesses that typically happen to adult children of narcissists. In my family, a cousin died of chrone’s disease in his 30s, another died Lou Gehrig’s disease, two had to be hospitalized for mental health issues, and one is an enabler of their narcissistic spouse. Please protect them by protecting yourself.
My anger wasn’t because my mom wasn’t a narcissistic but because she adopted some of my dad’s narcissistic behavior, and used them against her children, while looking like a saint outside.
It's hard when you are ordered by a court to divide child's time w the narc parent. This is a situation that hinders getting away. The child is forced to go through the bad experience. One day courts may get educated on protecting children.
My mom still won't admit anything and I'm middle age. I try to express my experience. She still ignores, shifts blame, rationalizes, justifies, says it was so long ago, etc. Kinda hurts. I'm getting closer and closer to no contact with her.
Yeh, I tried to raise it and apparently my pain was a mere "grudge" but my telling her thatvshe hurt me, now that was real pain and I upset her and I upset my father and I should be ashamed et cetera. It was about 3 years until I finally realised that she is UNREACHABLE. Her narrative that she is perfect is the only narrative. She will pathologise me to avoid 2 minutes self reflection. I feel angry with her but also a tiny bit sorry for her. What is the point being a martyr to motherhood if the daughter she raised is not a real person to her. I'm the part she wrote for me and no more. I have a reciprocally honest relationship with my 20yr old daughter. I support her more as she's still a v young adult, but my love isn't conditional. Weirdly, my mother tries to "win" my daughter from me. She won't win that so I feel angry with her for trying but also sorry for her. None of us are real to her.
Yeah, I look at my mom and I don't think she realizes people don't actually like her. She has bullied/manipulated everyone into lmaking things around her but they still don't like her. Her only daughter and her only grandson have only the most minimal contact with her. @@SusanaXpeace2u
Hard to believe we stayed to shield our smaller children from the abuse on everyone a narc can inflict after divorce,that many tmes can be worse. imagine tactics used to save your life from a bear, terrorist, home invasion or other threat. Courts just throw everyone back into the fray by custody or financial arrangements.
Be honest, kids can also expect divorced parents to get along for their sake when parents may not want to. It clearly is a d if you do and d if you dont'.
My heart bleeds every time my kids have to spend time with their father. He ignores them live, rub in his rejection and keep telling them how they waste his time, he is very busy trying to get money to take care of them. My son is trauma bonded to his dad and my daughter becomes anxious. It is so sad
True, but maybe makes the kids less likely to marry one and shows that it is possible to leave one. Which might be the most valuable thing you could ever give them.
For the non narc parents out there who are still coming to terms with the fact that, despite their best efforts they allowed the abuse, contributed to the abuse, or denied the abuse ---- the best thing you can do for your kids, is get therapy for yourself. Understand what brokenness in you made you choose that partner, made you stay, and made you deny your kid's pain and experience. You will have a much better chance of a relationship with your kids when they no longer feel unsafe with expressing their reality because you have done enough therapy to get it, and heal yourself.
@@angelicacroitoru4946 I'm so sorry they were so dismissive of your pain. It sounds like the therapists you've had fundamentally don't understand trauma, and unfortunately a lot of the mental health field is like that. Sure It's good to see the joy in the little moments --- but positivity has never fixed anyone's trauma. You can't smile your way out of being traumatized. (What your therapists were peddling sounds like Toxic Positivity). And it's so much better/healthier to be honest about where your emotions are at instead of trying to feel positive when you don't. Trauma is stored in the body, and it's not something you can think your way out of --- you have to feel the hard stuff and let yourself grieve. I'm still working on that myself (being honest about my emotions and feeling them). Some online psychologists and advocates that really helped me were Patrick Teahan, Ingrid Clayton and Nate Postlethwait --- their content might feel more genuine and helpful.
this video shook something inside my chest. It brings back a lot of old feelings. In my case, my father was somewhere between psychopathic and narcissistic. I honestly gave up trying to come up with what term fits him best. He was a really violent, explosive person that manipulated everyone around him, whilst at the same time pretending to be a faithful church man who lives a righteous life. Our lives were hell. I had an awkward anxiety that looks like PTSD every day around 5:30pm because that's the time he would be coming home from work. the energy in the house would change completely. Mom would tell me and my sister to go to our rooms and pretend we were studying if we had no homework to do. She'd be in the kitchen cooking and she would look so eradic and agitated. We lived through hell. My mom tried to escape a few times but she was always caught. In one of the times she left the state but my dad was able to track her down by going up to one of her sisters and threatening to kill my grandma if she didn't take him to where my mom was. You'd think police would do something about it, but they're only any good after the fact. They don't believe women and you have to show up at the police station with a few teeth missing for them to remotely care. My dad would hit us in places that wouldn't leave a bruise, like the head. the "bright side" of it was that the situation was so clear that me, my mom and sister stuck together like we were just one thing, and we always found validation in one another's feelings. As we grew older, it became harder and harder for my mom to just leave, because of custody issues. I am the youngest and when I turned 18 it was I who saw the opportunity to finally do something about it all. My mom was so battered she couldn't even come up with a plan, she'd sometimes just pray God would kill him from natural causes someday. I took some months but came up with a plan to get all of us out of that hell hole, and it was almost a movie kinda thing. We left at like 6 as soon as we saw him leave for work. That was the last time I saw my dad, and thankfully I could then begin my recovery from all his abuse. I feel bad for my mom for having endured all that. She tried her best to protect us but there was just so much she could do, and the damage happened regardless of her good intentions. We try to hype each other up and push each other forward, but in our own shortcomings there's a scar from the past that only we can understand. It's a sad reminder and a tug-of-war between being kind to yourself and trying not to settle for just grieving and trying to make life worthwhile and enjoy its beauty. To love is a burden, and the love that sheltered us from the damage caused by my father is the same love that held us from leaving on our own and leaving the rest of us behind. There is sadness in loving, and more love within the sadness.
No one should feel anxiety when anybody comes home. I lived that life for over 20 years! It's a shame that the children of narcissistic parents have to endure such pain. We had no choice in the matter.
Holy moly, my young adult/ teen kids often get into arguments during the time that their narc parent used to come home. I'm gonna change up the ambiance of the environment, maybe some quiet relaxation music in the background, a scented candle that invokes positive memories, and some healthy, light pre-supper snacks to curb any hangry pangs. Oh, and maybe a basket with some coloring books, quick puzzles, and brain teaser games they can do individually to take the edge off.
My Dad was a truly great parent when my mom wasn't there! That wasn't often. It doesn't come close to excusing his ridiculous betrayals or constant gaslighting. He used us both as human shields for his own benefit. Bottom line? They were quite a pair.
My dad is a huge enabler, to my mom and siblings for being abusive..he literally just doesn’t care who gets hurt along the way as long as he doesn’t have to express one emotion because that’s too terrifying for him, cowardly
I recently watched your short Reel on not forgiving the narc parent. That its ok. Finally made me feel like I could feel what I felt. People are always turning it around on the victims, forcing them to be the bigger person and forgive. Narc abuse lasts forever on the child, their self esteem, how they view the world, the relationships they have, all of it. Then you study all of this, realize what you went through, and how the "normal" parent, didn't protect you, AND refuses to acknowledge the damage, and how much you tried to save them, you can't help but have anger and not able to move forward with an adult relationship still controlled, you realize the dynamic is almost impossible to maintain. The codependent always chooses the main narc parent over the children typically. As long as the main narc is alive, they will control the dynamic, and to where the healthier parent caves and becomes almost mentally not well. You can't win and will have to exit out... to save yourself.
It's amazing because I was thinking about this when I got this notification. I understand my mom has had a lot of trauma herself. But she's picked up alot of his traits and I think it's just time for me to move a way and keep my distance
My mother was normal but died early. My step-mother was the narcissist and in hindsight I realize my dad was her co-dependent and completely enabled her while I was made the black sheep and my brother was the made the golden child. It took me years of therapy to figure out all these toxic dynamics and how it affected my disorganized attachment style. I spent years in a toxic obsessive relationship and now at the age of 49 find myself unmarried and childless. It has been nothing but an uphill battle to figure all this out but now at least, I understand, I’m not constantly reactive and inexplicably anxious or depressed. For the first time in my life, I feel like I finally have some semblance of control.
OMG’sh...I have a very similar story, only my mother didn’t die when I was young. My brother was the golden child, I was the black sheep and my dad enabled my step-b*tch. At 50-years old and unmarried, I still have nightmares about her. It’s amazing how much damage one person can do. I’m glad you’re doing better now.
It sounds so familiar! Narc mother, codependent and enabler father, golden child brother and me, the black sheep. 49yo, divorced and childless.The toxicity never ends until you leave!
@@claudiaherrera1624 Very True... I only have a relationship with my dads side of the family because of these types of toxic behaviors. I walked away years ago and it was the best thing I ever did for me! No one likes to be gas lighted etc. etc, all the time. Toxic people are not worth your time or energy. Happy holidays and take care
I remember "The phrase: (A sort of warning from my mother) "now father is coming" - and every joy and a certain amount of hygge (yes I am danish) dissappeared immediately. My elder siblings hurried to their room and I just stood there - being to small to understand what was going on - but man, I remember the atmosphere changing to fear and anxiety. When my father died, my mum threw the pills against anxiousness away. She had 5-6 years in peace before she got dementia. I have been doubting, which of my parents was the narcissistic one, or both - but in the last years I understand what an awful life my mother had , bringing up 6 children mostly on her own. She had deserved better.
I remember lying awake at night, in bed, waiting for my father to come home. The anxiety of hearing the car turn into the driveway. And then holding my breath to listen to see if he was in an okay mood, or a bad mood. If he was in a bad mood, he would sometimes storm upstairs and start slapping us over some ridiculous thing like I forgot to close a window, or got a bad test grade. I'm no contact with both parents for about 10 years now. It's a sadness that will never be completely gone.
i had a narcissistic mother and a kind and loving father. I adored him, never felt anger toward him. I actually look back and feel so blessed that I had him in my life.
Same here. My father is also a victim of my mother’s abuse. He doesn’t fully realize these patterns but he actively calls my narc mother out and she unleashes her narc rage. I think he grew up with a narc mother and thinks this abuse is healthy and normal because it’s familiar. Really sad.
@@sarahnicoleanastasia my story exactly, growing up my narc mother made sure I had no bond with my father, when I became an adult I made the effort of bonding with him without my narc mother in the picture, from there a beautiful connection started and he always reciprocated love. I get angry thinking I was robbed of it and so much as a child but thankful that I have it today in some way.
I was blessed with a kind, awesome father. I have 2 brothers and 2 sisters. When I was a child I would fantasize that my family was my father, my grandmother, my little sister and me. I used to think that life would be good if it was just us.
Same. But my dad is definitely an enabler. Hard to say if his childhood had a similar dynamic but he definitely didn’t do anything to blunt the narc rage. I definitely went through some bouts of anger and guilt that my dad wasn’t stronger willed and able to protect us from the abuse
I used to beg my mother to stop letting my father treat her so bad. When ever he left (usually storming out) she begged him to come back. She would fall apart and I was left to take care of her.
I am sorry you had to go through that...Your mother was very immature and codependant to put you through that💔No child should be put through that at all...
Yep. Dad was a buffer, but he did suffer. All the way up until the end of his life. At least I was able to hold his hand as he passed. I felt all the love we had for had for each other as he took his final breath. My knees actually gave out. I thought all the light went out of my life for awhile. As I know now he is at peace (6 years now) I too am at peace. No contact w/Mother for 5 1/2 years now. Life is good. Love is real.
Thank you for sharing this, Tanya. My non-narcissist father was like a buffer too, but passed away in January of this year due to cancer at 65. It was horrendous and traumatic dealing with it especially when you have a narcissistic mother who always made me feel like hell everyday. How did you handle that time if you don't mind me asking?
hihi, same :) My therapist answered something like "interesting..., a child would say that only, if it´s true, because the natural instinct would be to keep both parents near. But chidren have a very good sense for what would be good for the family system" Kids are little truthtellers, mh? ;)
I really needed this one. It took until my 30s to recognize that my father was the narc and my mother was the codependent. Mom is an alcoholic. My siblings and I all have PTSD. I saw my father's narcissism plainly when I confronted him about his gaslighting. It broke my heart to watch the disdain for me in his eyes. Ever since I've gone NC, I've had to reprocess so much trauma through this new understanding. Researching family histories to figure out how they got this way, and keep myself from becoming them. Extended family can't understand what we experienced, so I've gone NC with most of them, too. I still feel like I need to rescue my mom from him, and I also recognize that isn't my responsibility. Lost my family but gained self love and freedom. Thank you for your work, Dr. Ramani. Would love to hear more about the topic of breaking family patterns of narcissism and coping with all that entails.
My non narcissistic parent left when I was minor and didn't take me with them. They had the choice to leave and I didn't. That's a really hard one to let go of.
This is HUGE piece of the puzzle. I often find myself talking about my non-narc parent in therapy because there is so much more to unpack there- lots of grief. Thank you Dr. Ramani.
My other parent seemed like a victim to me. It really hit me when Dr Ramani said, you can’t protect them… I wanted to protect my father but couldn’t, felt a lot of guilt about that. Cried a lot in response to this video. Thank you for this
I feel like my mom killed my father. Not physically but she sucked the life out of him. I had to leave for my own life and sanity but have had years and years of guilt for leaving him there with her.
This dynamic is my mom and dad. I cried watching this because it is so heartbreaking to see how accurately you have described both of them. I can't stop crying.
Dr. Ramani, you must be reading my mail. Those of us who are older need to remember that our parents got married in an era where they were VERY young, and in many cases, divorce was really not an option.
Yes correct, I was married when I was 16 and 40 years with a narcissist husband husband with 3 children, knew nothing about narcissism. Took all the abuse from husband and in-laws. . Non supportive parents, they use to say , at least you have hv all luxuries, so what there is abuse, it will get ok after some years, don’t worry.
My mum's leaving my narcissistic father now that both her kids are adults. It'll be much healthier for all of us, but despite numerous talks I still feel like she diminishes the physical abuse I've received. 'Are you sure you're not overreacting? Are you sure it was that bad/that often/whatever?' Maybe she's struggling to accept that she failed to protect me from more than she thinks, but it sure feels like gaslighting all over again.
I have lived it too, she is the victim and only recently have I understood by lacking empathy towards her children, even if passively, she also had narcissistic tendencies.
Thanks for reassuring me, everybody. I think I'll try to revisit the topic someday as not all is lost (e.g. she acknowledges the toll our father has taken on our mental health, she paid for a lot of my therapy and talking with her after sessions helped me set several issues straight), but that's after the dust settles after the father finally moving out and she gets to recover a bit. Until an appropriate day comes, I'll just silently stick to my reality as it is what has shaped me.
They're *supposed* to be there protecting you, gave you a monster for a mom and when you *do* see him he wines about how she treated him! Instead of dealing with it, he takes off to become a dead beat dad, thanks!
Same here but with the genders reversed. My mom often used me as a personal therapist to complain about how my dad treated her, but she supported him whenever he abused me. I personally feel more hatred for her than for my dad. Because at least I know my dad has genuine issues but my mom knew he was toxic, but still took his side whenever I was his target for the day. I hope she rots in hell...
Oh my god and imagine the anger when the non-narcissistic parent is deceased. Then all that’s left is the narcissistic parent who is extremely abusive.
This is one of the more heartbreaking scenarios...the non narc is just run to the ground prematurely and you can only wonder what they would have been without the narcissist. And of course the narcissistic parent is likely looking to fill that void! I would run in the other direction.
It's about to be the story of my life. My non narcissistic mother is terminally ill while my narcissistic father is perfectly healthy. I have dreamed of the day where he is no longer apart of our lives but now it looks like that won't happen because my mother will be gone instead. It makes me so frustrated and angry
This is so true. My mother was the narcissist one and my dad was the co-dependent. My mother was so abusive to my father it broke my heart. My dad stayed until his death. I married a narcissist and I was the co-dependent one. I left the abuser and divorced him. By having a narcissist parent and all the drama my whole life I’ve never had a successful relationship with a man. My mother from day one has ingrained it into my brain I’m not enough or worthy. I have done a lot of therapy over the years to try to make me really feel better about me. I’m literally afraid and have anxiety to date anyone.
I am weeping listening to this ... I tried so hard to ‘protect’ my children - I never knew what narcissism was at that time. Out of 4 of my children, 2 -3 of them don’t want me in their lives, but they keep in touch their narc father... I don’t understand it and it’s so emotionally painful ! 😢
@@lindabell6954 Oh Linda ~ I get it. One of my daughters has gone no contact with me for years and I can feel her hatred ~ and the other daughter has stated "I'm done" referring to me. Wow, this topic really hit home didn't it.
I cannot even begin to tell you HOW MUCH this little video means. Those words are the acknowledgement and validation I have been needing since years. I will keep this in mind now whenever I gaslight myself in the future.
This was my family dynamic. My non narc enabling parent still doesn't get it and never will. I have to keep things light and superficial with the codependent parent. This video is so helpful and validating. I listen to Dr. Ramani because it feels so good just to be understood. I haven't had that feeling with ANYONE in my whole life. I am now learning about CPTSD symptoms and doing my best to process and manage it all. Thank you Dr. Ramani. You are a continued source of help and healing for me. .
My father finally left my narc mother when I was 15 (having told me some confidences he probably shouldn't have, but I did feel we had a loving relationship); but he caved and came back after 6 months, and was never really the same with me again. I remember how wonderful it was to be with him when I was a kid, but he just backed off after he came home from leaving. He did try to protect me a couple of times--I once overheard him saying to her, "Why are you always picking on her?" meaning me. While he was gone, he'd tell me how he was going to have a room for me where he lived, but it never happened. And he only saw my brother and me in public places while he was gone. He never got established in a new home. When he came home again, he may have felt guilty around me (my brother was already out of the house for all this), and he never talked to me about it again. Years later, I suspect my mother did what she could to alienate him from me. And after he died she told me he had told her in his old age that she was the most wonderful person he'd ever known. So--apparently, he just couldn't maintain his own identity in that toxic relationship. I know he said several friends told him he had "an inferiority complex." How awful that he chose her, and stuck with her!
I had a peace-loving gentle mother. My father was a bully a lot of the time, mostly at the dinner table. My mother would slave away in the kitchen to make nice meals, and then we'd all get indigestion when he'd start trying to cause arguments. I was the main target because I'd let him provoke me into a fight. My mother would always ask me to stop fighting. Of course, he loved that, because I was getting the blame for what he started. So I bought a camcorder, and got lots of good footage showing exactly how these fights started. When I played them back to my mother, she apologized and gave her reasoning as, "I knew you'd possibly be reasonable and stop, but he never would. I just wanted for once to be able to have a peaceful dinner." What she called a peaceful dinner would have had to be a silent dinner, with all of us having knots in our stomachs.
I recognize all of this. By the time I got to this level my mom had Alzheimer’s. I did recognize the factors leading to her staying but from a mom who was such a momma bear and would do anything for us, I did not understand why she stayed when we we’re definitely emotional abused and sometimes physically. I never felt angry, just very sad and confused.
Outstanding video. After years of therapy to help me first recognize and then make personal peace with my narcissistic father, I was actually shocked to find that there was a previously hidden layer of fury at my mother for always letting my father “get away with it” despite what I do believe was her genuine love for me. I pitied her her inability to protect herself, but I resent her inability to protect her only child. She and I both lived in fear, but she was the only one of us who had the potential to change that-and she didn’t. Ultimately, she was a hostage to my narcissistic father when aging made him increasingly abusive and her dementia prevented her from even contemplating escape. Tragic for her, of course, but I spent their last years trying to endure him to save her, which ultimately was impossible. Profoundly damaging stuff all around, and a tremendously important topic!
This is really enlightening. As an alienated parent experiencing anger and hostility from grown-up sons who are still being isolated and manipulated, I am now beginning to see that there might be more to their feelings than simply the narcissist pulling their strings. I was a good, or good enough parent, and did my best to give my kids a nice, loving upbringing just as I got from my parents. The situation was made impossible due to the constant chaos and crazy-making of my ex and it took me too long to figure out that she was wired differently from normal human beings and had no empathy. I do not know if my sons will ever "get it" or whether their anger will be permanent but this video was very helpful.
At least you’re starting to try and see their side or understand things beyond just your perspective. Many of us with narc or enabling parents don’t even get acknowledgement that there was a problem
@@Bekind7868 Like you, things changed for me once I discovered the word narcissism and realised I had to change because the narc will never change. The kids do not realise that, when you are in the situation, you are powerless to stop the random chaos and abuse. It just keeps detonating and you try to keep the peace. Looking back, I can see why the kids might judge us (wrongly) for enabling the behaviour. They are angry that we did not stop it, but they do not realise that we couldn't stop it.
Growing up with a brutal narcissist father/codependent mother, the youngest of three, I was shielded from the reality of my family dynamic by everyone. They divorced when I turned 18 (I’m now 36), and in the years that followed the rose colored facade of what I thought my family was like has slowly been eroded away. My older sisters have become horrible narcissists themselves, and my mother never got over her codependency, and is now codependent on them. My father died in 2019. I now have to live a life without any of them because they are so toxic to me.
It's like you walked right into my household. Every statement in your video hit the nail square on the head... (I am the non narcissistic parent) your videos have helped me immensely. Thank you for what you do...
OMG, my mother (the non narc) use to say that all the time, " he (my father, the raging alcoholic narc) wants whats best for you." This video was a bit triggering of old buttons that live inside me.
Yes, please Dr Ramini! Thank you so much for this one, as it validated what I believe my kids feel. I’m the non-narc parent, and grieve for my kids, and the childhood they had to endure. I stayed with the narc (32 years!) until after the kids left home, for many reasons, but most of all I didn’t want a court fight with the kids in the middle, and didn’t want them to have to be with him alone for visitation. Now my oldest son stays very distant, and I would love some tips on how to reach him to heal the relationship.
@@scrappysista acknowledge the abuse and how your actions contributed to it and apologise. My mother refuses to acknowledge it and dismisses it as " the past" or " here we go again " and for that reason I cannot get over it or forgive her. Once again she is choosing her comfort over my safety . Taking accountability helps the victim a lot.
Thank you Doctor Ramani! Your video made so much sense to me. I have compassion for my Mom, but just now learning to give it to myself. My Mom is still with my self-righteous narcissistic Dad - over 50 years together. She saw his abuse. She bore witness to it and did so much praying. She grew up with two narcissistic parents and a narcissistic sister. She told us kids the best thing to do was be quiet whenever Dad was angry. I was never a quiet child. Dad was angry everyday, multiple times a day. We all walked on eggshells around him. He took his frustrations out on us. We were always being compared to others: other people in the church’s kids, his work colleagues kids. We were never good enough even thought we were really good kids with great grades. Our Mom was always told she was too fat, wasn’t as good a housekeeper as his Mom. We were the family you described that went from having a fun lovely time together Mom and us kids, until we heard the sound of the garage door opening. Then it was “places” and hope Dad was in a good mood at that moment. On the really bad days I watched our Mom try to deflect his anger away from us kids and take it all on herself. By the time I was 12, I started to deflect the attention to me when I saw our Mom was at her wits end and being gaslighted by our Dad. I am the truth teller in my family. I wish I could see my Mom more than I get to, but he controls her still to this day. I can see the defeat on her face. The toll living with our Dad has taken on her mental and physical health makes my blood boil!
I don’t think my kids saw it this way. They saw their Dad as the hero ( which he wanted them to believe). Not understanding that he really was manipulating them and only conditional love.
My kids don’t see it neither (sometimes also a bit of a case of not wanting to see it). I protected them from his “nonsense”. I called him out on his bad behaviour, even though at that time I didn’t understand what was wrong. The kids are now adults and I am happy to say that they do not seem “damaged”. But I do see their “pain” when once again I am in pain during yet another outburst. He mostly doesn’t do it when other people (even our grown up kids) are around as he’s too worried that anyone will figure out how he really behaves. Sometimes our “kids” know that I pass through “shitty, toxic” periods (attacks), and they are sympathetic to me. But they love both of us, so they just feel hurt for us both (and the situation).
@@AmandaBuxbaum yes I know it is but my courts are ignorant about it so fighting an uphill battle. May not be able to afford experts etc necessary to win plus still could lose after.
@@kayvas8590 Stay strong and (as doctor Ramani says) keep owning your truth and keep those boundaries firmly in place. There is no excuse for them to behave in such a way.
My mom is the narcissist whereas my dad has been her punching bag. She minimized, dismissed, invalidated and completely destroyed his self-esteem. She conducted multiple smear campaigns against him and the foundation was created as far back as I could remember. I never quite understood why growing up because my dad and I had a precious relationship. Majority of my childhood memories that I cherish, go back to my dad and I sharing time together. My mom tried her best to triangulate my dad and I once I grew up, but I always knew deep down in my heart that my dad was a good person no matter how hard my mom tried to make him seem otherwise. In the process, my dad lost a lot of who he was and whom I expected him to be as a parent and at times it made me believe what my mom was painting all along. Recently, I discovered what narcissism truly encompasses and put all the dots together. Honestly, I feel a lot towards my mom but it has been somewhat easier to distant myself from her even though it is very much difficult..BUT, the feelings of resentment, upset, hurt, anger, grief..somewhat of dad, you were selfish and didn't protect us? ..it is much more tough. This video is spot on. It's a struggle I deal with every day as far as my dad is concerned.
I clung to my narcissist parent, until he chose to leave when I was 13. Life was not pretty with my mother and I. We were strangers, we were angry, we were both abandoned and left reeling. I am thankful for her, because she’s the reason I have goodness in me. I’m am thankful that she always normalized therapy. I am especially glad that she and I pushed though our personal growing pains and have a good relationship now.
This was incredibly helpful. My “normal dad” has managed to hurt me more than my narcissistic mother. He makes the money and could’ve easily gotten us away from her, knows it’s all been a shitshow and what it’s done to me and my sister, admits it, then looks me deadass in the eyes and says, but yeah anyway sorry I still choose her over you, good luck. Any respect I had left for him was eviscerated in a millisecond and as her enabler, I blame him almost more. However to your point this rage I have at him isn’t doing me any favors. Just need to stay away from them probably.
After my dad died, I am no longer able to cope with the abuse of my narcissistic mother. The abuse is physical, mental, and emotional. I'm getting it 100% now. Dad and I shared an understanding of what it was like to live with her. I don't have my dad to comfort and support me anymore. I'm moving out of her house. I have to protect my health.
I feel your pain. My dad died over 2 yrs ago, sudden heart attack probably brought on by the yrs of abuse from my very narcissist mom. I am eldest of 5 kids and because I was close to dad I am now getting even more abuse from my mother. It has been unbearable and I no longer have dad to be the buffer and protect me. I have gone grey rock with mom and will probably walk away. Thank god there is an ocean between us. Really miss my dad and wish I could have done more for him . . .
I never blamed my dad. He was always proud of me ,and loved me unconditionally.. He himself sufferd my mums abuse..More and more when he got older and sick... I'm, even more angry with my mum for what she did to him. But in some way he saved me. But he was also the reason I could not go "no contact".
“It shaped you” it’s so true- being the child vrs “the peer” of the non narc. They can’t fully get it and it hurts when they try to put you in their shoes vrs stepping into yours- the helpless child who was shaped by the narc
I wondered for a while why I used to be so angry toward my dad, I always felt like I was just a terrible kid. It makes alot more sense now. Thank you for this.
I'd love an extension to this episode on parents who divorce and as a child you're left feeling completely abandoned in narcisstic home to fend for yourself. So much hurt.
@@SweetiePieTweety luckily my non narc parent was in my life, but I always felt really alone. That parent and I have talked about the pain but it doesn't take it away. They got to live their new life and basically abandon their past and effectively ignoring the effect it had on us kids.
It took me longer to forgive my "healthy" parent. He still can't "hear" me, but I have grieved, and come to a place of acceptance. I know he did his best--just as my mentally ill mother did--but were limited by their upbringing and trauma and who knows what else. It is as it is and I love them. I am now relate to them as they and I are Now. But it was much work on my part to heal. So worth it. I now have peace and can love freely.
Lol ya, I remember when my dad would come home I knew the fun was gone. When he left which was usually the early afternoon 3/4pm I knew the day was beginning. I even remember the joy and relief I felt when he’d leave
YES! My mom is the covert narcissist....my dad the codependent one. Right up until he died young he would call me in frustration saying "Ya gotta do something about your Ma...I can't" And then I would go into my role of "fixing" things for my mother that day. Yeah....I love him dearly, I miss him terribly....but I'm angry for being sucked into doing his job. HE married her...I did not.
Dad was physically / emotionally abusive to mum. Mum left a number of times. Mum's family kept persuading her to go back, she did. I didnt speak to my dad coz of all I'd witnessed. Then, when things were bad between them, mum would tell me how she hated my dad and validated what I felt. When things were good she'd gas light me and say 'why don't u get along with your dad. Youre making my life difficult'. After she eventually left him of her own volition, she and the extended family said I was responsible for that break up. She then took her life when he remarried coz she was heavily codependent on him and her family made her feel like she was nothing without him. To this day the extended family say I'm responsible even though they witnessed how my dad was. I was also the black sheep. The extended family have now fed that narrative to my siblings who I raised (but were too young to remember abuse) and its like theyre brainwashed. I just stay away. I really didn't have any chance with anyone.
Thank you Dr. Ramani. Now that I'm 50 years old I can really see in a more objective way how truly messed up both of my parents were in a lot of ways. My mom is the nurturing one, my dad the covert narcissist. And in my childhood, oh God, how I took on the blame!!! But no more.
As an adult, one of the things that baffles me in hindsight is how many times adults expected me to be more empathetic and to have more self control than the freaking ADULT.
Right??!
And worse, this adulting expectations were conditional. With my parents I had to behave like their parent (especially narc one) but to my younger siblings who are a decade younger than me I had to be a childlike playmate. This and more just exemplified my dissonance, see that now.
even if the enabler parent heard me out it won't do shit now too late
@@anushkajariwala129 Yea! Same for me… This was one of the overarching traps my narc stepdad had me in, especially when he and my mom had their two daughters. After age 9 my life was just a clusterfck of double binds, double standards and scapegoating… my mom acts like he saved us, but I feel like she sacrificed me.
Same here!!!
"Allergic to the joy in the household.... They want to be the sole emotional thermostat" - so absolutely accurate.
Does she know my mom? It's uncanny.
Mine STILL does this coming to my house! I've been out of her home for almost 20 years and she still occupies all the air in the room when she comes here. I will NOT go to her house.
I think Dr Ramani must have met my older brother; he definitely seems to be allergic to anything that's happy or positive
When you said “the narcissist comes homes and everyone has anxiety” ... I felt that
I can relate. Even our dog went nuts. Sounds silly. Was such fun and calmness all day. Can not imagine how children felt.
Me too, man. Bro hug.
The “other” parent unloaded histrionic DRAMA 24-7 , what a cowardly BORE.
The sound of his car coming home makes my stomach turn
You described, to a T, the stressful situation I grew up with. My Father made a serious announcement, and attempt to leave the marriage, while I was in college. I am the one who naively flipped out and reminded him of his wedding vows, and verses from the Bible, and that he was not a man of his word. I was confused and didn’t understand his pain because my dysfunctional family system was the only way I knew. He hung in there , miserable and depressed, out of duty and old school honor. He did listen quietly and with understanding to confidential conversations I had with him (as my children got older), that I could no longer bear the anxiety my demanding N. mother was creating. He used to shake his head sadly, almost in tears, saying he could not find even a moment of peace in his home, and he often visited my home to have a couple days of freedom. He is now deceased, and there are so many conflicting emotions at him and even myself for the whole ugly, strife filled upbringing and N. family system that i am still trying to escape. It was a no win situation for him, me, and my siblings.
Insanely difficult to empathize with the alleged "normal" parent after decades of being ignored while fully in favor and supportive of the narcissistic parent.
@@musicandpoetry_8 What you are echoing is exactly the feelings of so many victims of narcissistic abuse. For decades, like yourself, I believed my enabler mother was so marvelous because she seemed always ready and willing to placate my horrific father. I also believed she was doing this to benefit the family. After her death, I realized that she was never there for me. She never had my back. Her loyalty was to her narcissistic husband first. And then to her narcissistic golden child secondly. It was very confusing at the time. But, now, everything is crystal clear. My thinking has completely changed. I don't miss her one bit.
While difficult and painful, you may find yourself going down the same path. Having a complete change of your beliefs. I wish you well. I know first hand how tough a journey it will be...😑
@@jaykram7754 "After her death, I realized that she was never there for me. She never had my back. Her loyalty was to her narcissistic husband first."
Same thing happened to me as my mom was dying of cancer. I thought that she would break free and change the "speed dial" so that I would be #1 with the time she had to live. But instead, she worried about what my dad would do after she died. And I saw with my own eyes and heard with my own ears that she was going to breathe her last breath thinking of him, not me. And that's what happened, as she told my dad in her last hour, "I don't wanna leave you." Not "y'all." "You" -- my dad. And that's what he remembered. I was supposedly the only "planned" child of three, which my mom AND dad, told me, but I was always going to be a planet in their "binary star" system. And I'm sure that when my dad dies that he and she will have a private suite in Heaven. I'll get my own place, I hope...with my dog, who really was more like a mom than my mom was to me. I grieved when my dog died than when my mom died.
For real and then on top of it they got divorced but then he married another more covert narcissist
@@jaykram7754yup. 100%
Or in my case, the abusive narcissistic sibling(s)
It's a shame innocent children have to suffer for the bad choices adults make. Adults are suppose to protect their children. No one is safe in a narcissistic family system. Children are scarred for life.
L lakes - I don’t think adults purposely made ‘bad choices’ - I tried to protect my children but had no idea who I was dealing with at my age from 24 to 30 (when 4 kids were born) - I am 74 now and if I knew then what I know now- none of this would have happened. Sometimes the parent is just as innocent as the child - who knew?
People trying to heal a narcissistic family system while being part of that family being controlled by a narcissist does not often get justice in family court. However any effort at all made without getting in the mud called revenge with the narcissist in trying to heal a narcissistic family system is better than none [Except falling for the notion that some weeks of court ordered therapy is going to change the narcissist].
@@michellebegin4965 sometimes the parents are victims too. Not in my personal case.
@@michellebegin4965 I agree! Many of us have no idea what we are dealing with until we are deep into it.
@@karenkaren4978 It seems that's the way young 'adults' are today ~ they take everything you have given them, but with absolutely no appreciation. If she has abandoned you and scorned your name ~ and is now abusing you, the parent who was there for her child ~ she/he will have to answer to God for this someday. I know it hurts so much and my heart goes out to you. Life is not always fair.
"he loves you, just has a different way of showing it."
uuuuggggghhhhhhh I'm so sorry
REAL
I didn’t realize til a couple months ago that my nicer parent co-signed on all the abuse, took no responsibility, and was actually narcissistic too. I was parentified, gaslighted, minimized, all the techniques the other one did, but in a “kinder” way. I’m no contact with both parents now.
currently having this realization. I thoughts its my father but now I realized the voice that criticized me all along and the person who overstepped my boundaries the most was my mother whom I idolized for so long. I cried for hours when the wall came crushing down but I fell so much happier now realizing this, as it opens a door for me to make even better choices for myself.
Much love to you I hope you heal from this.
After a therapy session I managed to tell my dad "it would have been your responsibility as a father to protect us children". That lifted a big burden off my shoulders, because I had always felt responsible to protect him and my brother. To finally utter that words towards him, helped me a lot.
Same here with my mom. I genuinely thought she was the good parent, only to find out later in life that she is also narcissistic and scarred me worse than my overt narc dad did. It's cray how many of us share these very similar experiences.
Wow same exact story here. Thought my mom was the nicer parent and victim to my grandiose dad. Turns out she was a covert narcissist and just like with hellknit101 here, scarred me worse than he did.
Both of my birthers are narcs. I had to go no contact. Its been 2 weeks.
You had two abusive parents - a narc and an enabler.
Best thing to do is going no contact. Find peace, because they won't change.
Eh if my dad admits it eventually I forgive him. Narcissistic wasn't even a thing when he got married. He is currently not taking any crap and it's great 😆
Yes - & get worse with age.
Yeah the parent who never stood up for me when I needed it!
I’m so sorry for you , Anna. I understand your pain.
I understand you too !
Yea but if they stand up for you they imagine their consequences. My wife lays down all the rules for the house we have a 2 yo if I don't agree with something r even if I suggested something I am told to f*** off back to where I came from, which is another country and then not be part of my sons life. Not only this but she gets my house that she made me buy.
@@munterboy9298 I hope your son grows up realizing you loved him enough to endure all this for him and I hope you can find a way to break free if possible.
It's never easy standing up to cruel people, specially if you're afraid someone you love will get hurt. Hang in there❤
My case is a bit different. I'm the first born so as I grew older I tried defending my other parent and then my siblings. Specially my siblings, I couldn't sit still and watch them endure the abuse I went through. But what pained me the most was my other parent telling me to follow their example and keep quite and bow down to the narcissist. I love them and I wish the best for them but sometimes I wish they loved themself enough to leave before my younger siblings were born.
Oh I feel this. Especially when the other parent completely checked out. In my family, my Dad has ended up an alcoholic due to the dynamic, so he has totally disengaged. When he does choose to engage, all he does is enable in an effort to stop the drama- he hates the conflict.
She laid out my childhood exactly how I experienced it and still do. At almost 30, I still can’t get my “normal” parent to hear me. I am currently grieving the loss and trying to move on.
I moved on and the enabler parent died and the a narcissist continues to be alive, COVID took the enabler and the narcissist shares no blame, responsibility and no empathy. Less than 2 weeks her death, he was trying to rush me into getting the monies divided up, after that, he tried to dangle gifts that will never be received. I haven't spoken with him and am currently in therapy, I didn't know I was dealing with these types of parents until recently. You will still feel grief when they die, but by far, best choice I've ever made was to cut them off.
They won't listen because they avoid accountability, they are unable to answer the question "why did you allow that to happen?" They believe that if they don't admit, they are not guilty
Also in my 30s, I am in your boat! I am currently trying to get my “normal” mom to understand why I don’t want to be around my dad. She makes all the excuses and refuses to see my pain. It’s a hard place to be but you are not alone!
i am 38 and my enabler mom hurt me sayin she loves my dad like i am not exist at all… it is so hard so hard. i choose no contact. till they die my pain will never healed
Denial is also survival strategy.... :(
My enabler parent has actually caused me more pain than the narcissist parent. So much sadness😢the package deal is such a pain.
Yes 😢
At least you know it wasn't you and that the pain is totally justified from being at the mercy of two unaware and totally screwed up parent so eventually it becomes our choice whether or not to focus on pain or moving on by letting go.
true
Same here...the enabler parent was in the end far more vicious
Hope that this will be (even a little) gamechanger for me.
"He had a rough childhood, he's a good provider, just ignore him when he says things like that, don't be so sensitive." Gah, all of those.
Oh I already know I’m going to feel this one.
Kaleen Hird, I got on my phone to look at something else. I feel YOU today with your post. I couldn't click fast enough with this vid myself. I'm going through this with all 3 of my emotionally abused adult children. My ex never touched them. He certainly abused me physically and emotionally., but NEVER in front of them. The ex terrorized all of us. It was like living in a cult! Ya know, this part hurts worse than even their sadistic dad's abuse of me. All other relationships amongst me and me children were utterly destroyed. I've left the whole thing in God's Hands. God has my children's backs, as He's always had mine. My children aren't narcissistic. They ALL went on to be abused by other varying abusers. It breaks my heart that I didn't know better, the dynamics, nor damage of people disordered like this. And for crying out loud, there's SO MANY in the world! But hey, this was ALL in God's Word! It truly is. Word for word accurate!! A warning Written thousands of years ago that it WOULD be EXACTLY as we're seeing today. I get it now, finally. But it doesn't make it hurt any less...........
same, so muchhh pain
I saw the title and almost started crying. I was actually trying to work out this very thing with my therapist, but my therapist didn’t really understand Narcissism .
What is it called: a non-narcissistic mother who doesn't acknowledge HER PART for all her children in this "whole thing" of still STAYING in this narcissistic relationship for 50 years, where all the kids will not even visit her anymore? (of course, money is just an excuse). I wonder what it is called...Or maybe it just doesn't have a specific "name"...don't know if it is co-dependent, because she lives her life also well outside the house "socially"...and she doesn't even like him, btw!
❤
My non narcissistic parent continually threw me under the bus- still does- to keep the wrath focused on me and avoid being the narcissists scapegoat. They both still make me furious for how messed up I am. Took me decades to figure out why I’m so traumatized. And they will never have a clue. Everyone in the family and community thinks they’re “wonderful people,” and aren’t I lucky to have such awesome parents 😢
Even as an adult, I stay in my room to avoid her at all costs and am elated when I do come out not to see her car in the garage..... highlight of my day
Are you me?
@@pettylabelle7944 😁
This is crazy! This is me. In fact, I looked out the windows this morning to check and was excited and relieved to see her car gone so I could just have breakfast and watch these videos in peace. The pandemic brought me back home to live with my mother, well, she lives with my older sister her who is the narcissist she trained her to be as her golden child. I was the truth teller, and because of how I was tormented for that growing up I’ve always said I’d quite literally live in my own car before ever living in a house with those two again and I wholeheartedly MEANT it. I felt like life tricked me or something because I came from NY to visit my younger sister (invisible child) and nephew and bam! The pandemic hits, total lockdown and I’m trapped in my worst nightmare living with my two childhood abusers the people who worked overtime to completely break my childhood spirit. But now, I think I’m here to evolve further. I hadn’t realized how much I’d already grown in the years away from them…and neither did they. They can see it too and don’t have the power they used to have over me. None of their old tactics work the same and I have a voice now and I USE IT. I can see now how fragile and weak they are, nothing to be afraid of or hurt by like my child self believed. It’s all clearly still a work in progress cause I was happy as shit to wake up to BOTH of their cars gone today, lol, but I guess I said all this to say there is growth and I believe we can ultimately be free of the Narcs in our lives in a healthy way. I believe, with the healing work I’ve been doing, that when I leave them this time I will be completely mentally, emotionally, and spiritually free from them with no resentment, anger, or bitterness towards them. Just free. That’s REAL freedom. I used to have doubts about cutting them off completely when I left before - family obligation and blah, blah - but this next time, once I’m out of here, I feel I can leave with peace within myself, instead of that chaotic need to escape, and I’m confident going no contact and never looking back!
Side note: Dr. Ramani’s comments section is surprisingly like group therapy (which I can’t afford) isn’t it? There’s always somebody’s comment that strikes me right in the heart. Be reading RUclips comments crying and shit, lol 🙄 then having to process my feelings. I find reading these comments extremely helpful though, ❤️ y’all.
This is literally me
i had to move back to mom and dad to get away from the even worse ex lol and if they are ever both out of the house at the same time i literally turn the music up and start dancing
This is the first time in my life I hear an explanation for the pain and anger I’ve felt my whole life towards my non-narcissistic parent. THANK YOU. I’ve lived in shame of these feelings and unable to understand, short of blaming myself and thinking I’m evil. Today I can weep and breathe and start a healing process. Again, THANK YOU.
I feel you.
I was not angry i kind of felt things were.about to get better , but then he got sick and died 3.months later. Thats my closure. I am so happy that Dr Ramani shares these videos because it helps me understand a lot of missing pieces
For years I was angry at my father for not sufficiently defending us, but through therapy I realized he was a victim also. If he had left my abusive mother she would've been granted primary custody and we would've been in her total power.
I never felt angry at my father, I always saw him as a victim of my mother. He did what he could when I was an adult to give me support. He took also a very bad part of the narcissism of my mother and suffered a lot.
Yes! My biggest fear was to lose custody of my children. The narcissist came from a strong family that I felt powerless against. I chose to continue the relationship with the narcissist, which meant I gave my children the best life that I could give them.
@@maryhumphrey2236 Yes, Mary. Probably my father did the same. He spoke once about divorce but he probably never thought seriously about it.
@@maryhumphrey2236 Wow, that’s painful. This might be another big reason why my mother never left. I hadn’t thought of it, so thank you for posting.
@@sirenachantal471 i thought this too, but as years go on and we are out of the house.. her codependency has become so obvious.
“It is a complicated grief stew of love, anger, shame, guilt, frustration, and a childlike wish of wanting and wishing it were different.”
Exactly. Brilliantly said.
Definitely feels like how I feel. I've definitely had that conversation with my therapist. So yep. Add other forms of abuse on top of that and you have a mess (er, my life). Trauma therapy helps me a lot though.
Same. That part really resonated for me.
And pity and empathy.
😢❤️🩹
It is very important to let go of your anger and grief at some point, so that you can move on and live your life. Detachment is the key to happiness and success.
No biggey, they were never there for you anyway, easier for *them* to *disappear* than deal with her anymore. How the heck does that help you? Where are *you* supposed to go but to more crap!
Yes, true. It's also true that when you've been through some of of the things I, at least, have, I think it's normal for that to come back and visit from time to time. As long as you don't stay there, I think it's ok to have that anger come back again occasionally.
On the contrary, working through your emotions and processing them with people who see, know and care for you is far more beneficial to growing and living a more connected life. Grey rock the narcs but detaching from life long term is unhealthy.
@@lilbertsmom3561 my dad helped another family, came out of the bushes once I turned ate teen. Well I was seriously busy the night of his wake, best thing I ever did was stay home instead of dragging wanna be hubby and kids there, I was recuperating from having helped covert mom with surgery, skipped on getting any of his stuff either! When his step-son (weren't even married) put me under pressure to be there because he wanted to show his gratitude for how much dad had done for them I said "Exactly when he should have been doing for me and my mom".... Then older overt coke head sis accuses me of not of having handled it very well. See ya never everyone!
@@amyt3949 love to but where do you find someone whose suffered the same except here?
I have managed to cut almost all ties with the narcissistic parent and finally breathe for the first time in my life. But the occasional waves of anger with the other parent who did not protect me from the abuse for so long are much harder to overcome.
Thank you all for helping me shed some layers of emotional baggage
Speaking for "other parent," I am so, so sorry. No child (or anyone) should have to experience what you have. I hope you can find forgiveness for the adult who felt "stuck" in a relationship with a vindictive monster.
Same
Today I reached the realization she would never choose us. Not her kids. Not her grandkids. Just that "stability" being offered. I always thought it was strange that my father was so competitive with us, his children. I didn't realize we were actually losing this whole time. That recognition of betrayal has changed me permanently. I just never had the words for it before.
“When people tell you “oh just let it go. It’s in the past.” They don’t understand. They don’t understand because that past shapes your present”
I needed this video. I just want to connect to those that don’t even have to do as much work as unlearning the justification & rationalizing of a narc parent. But the whole “the past doesn’t define your future” thing didn’t quite help me acknowledge all the pain, alienation, and divide caused by the narc parent.
I have learned that the ones who say that, the ones who say oh just leave it in the past. They themselves are also narcissists and are guilty of doing the same things.
My non-narc parent didn't have the means to leave until I was 13, and we lived in poverty afterward. Having had a narc marriage myself gave me even more respect for how hard it was to get out.
Thank you for this. Blaming the abused parent causes double damage. Coping with own emotions is important. But trying after that to understand how it worked can bring better insight for oneself, forgiving and peace with the abused parent. My own story is complicated. I'm the abused parent. But I couldn't identify the nature of this abuse. I remember once saying to a therapist that I felt like an abused wife, "beaten" with words (my ex-husband has never physically beaten me). Her answer made this idea irrelevant and I thought for years that I was wrong about it. I have sometimes heard that I was exagerating and "making him black". I made my best to protecting our 4 children against bad words and always taking their feelings seriously, listening, comforting, giving them the right to feel what they felt. But I couldn't avoid the damages. I see their suffering. One of them has broken the relationship with me for 4 years. It hurts in all ways. I'm 61 and have been married 35 years long. Just happy to have been alone for those last 4 years. I am coping too with my own mistakes, fears and blindness. But I can't change the past. I'm just facing now (!) the concept of narcissistic abuse. Nerver heard before in the mouth of the many therapists I've seen. My faith in God became stronger. He freed me of this toxic marriage and heals my heart and makes me stronger, step for step. All my prayers are for my children now. Blessings.
@@thereseservais924 I have BPD, am 22 now.
I can understand you position. My mother is in a similar position, yet she doesn‘t seem to even want to open her eyes at this point.
Both my siblings have struggled immensely over the past few years.
I finally made the decision to confront only my father, after I saw how much anger I took out on my mother, simply because she was and is always there for us, in her own way.
She made mistakes, yes. So have I.
I wasn‘t always an easy child to deal with and I do think narcissistic people do deserve compassion also, but you cannot open their eyes through compassion and love sadly. Usually it has to be terror, the cold hard truth, which hurts all involved involuntary. Thats why most decide to simply walk away and turn their backs, most often for too long. So don‘t ever give up on your kids, they haven’t given up on you, even if it seems. ❤️
@@funemployed468 Thank you. Nice to hear from "the other side". To loose one child this way is worse than to loose a husband. But my hope remains. Blessings. 😍
Ridiculous, isn't it. Having to choose between a narc and scraping by.
@@funemployed468 I really don't like the term 'difficult' child and I know Dr.Ramani has often used it. I've been labelled a 'difficult' child myself and in fact my mother said that both had found me difficult to deal with because of my anger outbursts.
Firstly, how can ANY healthy being not get angry when treated unfairly?? Secondly... Really??? A difficult child? Perhaps I should have been seen and not heard.
I don't like this term.
What I try to say... from a non easy child to another... How we were dealt is not on us. It's not fair that it happened and we cannot carry this guilt on.
I know I won't.
the "healthy" parent most likely are empaths who grew up with a narcissist parent too who emotionally beat them down to make them attracted to the same abuse that is destroying their children. They were conditioned throughout childhood and now with their narcissist to accept the abuse as "normal" and to give excuses for their spouse. A lot of times the "healthy" parent are part of the abuse because they turn a blind eye to the abuse, accept the gaslighting as the truth, and mentally scaring their children forever. Now the child will think this abuse is normal, attract a narcissist or develop to be a narcissist themselves because that is their reality..and the cycle continues.
Thank you Dr. Mommy err I mean Ramani, for what felt like another hug. No one really bears witness to children of narcissistic family dynamics as you do. Thank you for your channel, these materials are such a precious resource!
Haha she's an actual angel I love this channel
So well put and so true!!
Mommy? LOL ! talk about transference!
OMG! I distinctly remember talking on the phone to my best friend and she saying" What's wrong, is your dad home?" I said, 'Yeah, why?', perturbed. She said, 'I can always tell when he's around because you are different on the phone. You completely change.' I was shocked and nervous, I felt like someone found out a secret. The things we endured was not supposed to be known to the outside world. I was dumbfounded that someone knew how much he changed the air in a room. OMG, thank you for speaking for all of us who endured an emotional tortured childhood and are trying to heal our shit as adults! May God bless you!
Can totally relate.
I know exactly what you mean. I used to be able to physically feel which of my parents was in the house.
Yeah it really is like happiness just dies whenever a narc is in the same building as you🙄...Nobody healthy can thrive around them long-term.
God Bless you
God bless us all on our healing journey ❤
I still hate the sound of a car shutting off.
for me its the loud engine sound of a pick up
:(
For me it was her bedroom door opening.
The sound of pickup truck wheels on gravel.
It was the sound of the door knob opening and the look of hate on her face for me.
In my case, I always knew my main abusive parent was like a shark and will always do shark things. What still enrages me is what should have been the safe parent was not the lifeguard, but someone chumming the water, throws you in, then blames you and make excuses for the shark. Even the enablers are just as abusive as your main narc and should be all cut out accordingly
Please realise that sometimes making excuses for them is because the non narc parent may have been trying to protect you. You can't tell a child that a parent doesn't love them. That is child abuse too.
Also know that blaming you was not on either.
These partners can come in pairs, overt and covert narcissism. Covert is almost impossible to identify unless you know exactly what to look for. My mother was so nice to everyone, just a complete angel but at home very passive aggressive and so sneaky!!
We knew something wasn't right, it takes an expert to help us *figure it out*, unless we met others who've been equally tormented and hopefully left fuvked-up by our parent there's no help whatsoever, we get *Why can't you just get along?*, 😲!
Yes...you're right. Cause the overt one is so in your face, you don't notice how sneaky , cowardly and manipulating the other one is. It becomes clearer when the overt one dies...you can be seriously shocked.
This is the dynamic in my family. Father - overt, mother - covert. Both were charming to the outside world but terrible to us
@@lejci38 yep the covert is the victim so it fits well with their narrative. They're also abuse enablers by proxy. I understand that some cultures you can't leave but in the US divorce has been normalized for 40+ years. The covert is likely the one who didn't work and complain they can't work, "the victim" again... Everyone feels sorry for them.
I think we call them massochists (they like abuse), covert narcissists is more manipulative (machiavelic). I am takling about thee pictute I have until now. A massochist dont care for the toxic behaviour because there is a possibity to like the toxicity of his her partener, but this topxicity maybe be unberable for the people that are not narcissistic supplies
I don't have any contact with both my parents anymore, even though they are divorced. The divorce made everything ao much uglier and more painful. The custody fight went on for 4 years and my narcissistic parent won it. I cut my narcissistic parent off and sat down with my other parent, who was willing to hear me without interruptions. I wasn't gaslighted that night, but a few months ago I announced to this parent I was going to get married. My narcissistic parent wasn't invited, of course and my other parent tried to gaslight me into inviting them. Solely because I stood my ground and honestly explained why I would not budge and why their behaviour bothered me, they cut me off too. I honeslty let go of that quite quickly. If you defend your narcissistic ex, almost 10 years after divorcing them, to your child of whom you've heard the whole story, then there's frankly no hope for this relationship anymore...
I hope they both didn’t show up for real and they are still out of your life.
@@sosyrobinson2636thank you for this. They didn't show up. The date of our wedding changed after breaking off contact. I've now been married for almost 4 years and my husband and I have a 2-year-old. They've never seen our son, had nothing to do with my pregnancy. I sometimes miss them, especially when things get hard and lonely, but I'm so much better off without them.
Thank you for speaking about children. It is very important to know that children are above all victims of narcissists
It's horrendous the damage a narcissistic parent inflicts on the family, especially children. Its taken me some time to understand this, since my epiphany at age 60+. When I look back it breaks my heart. The past is the past, but I'm still angered when I think of all the cruelty inflicted on the children.
My dad was as much a victim of my narcissistic mother as I was. He did the best he could for us and her while having his own world turned upside down as well. If you haven’t experienced narcissistic abuse, there is little to prepare you for what it feels like when you’re on the inside. He is an empathic type. He never stood a chance against her. In talking with him now that we both know more about narcissistic abuse, he stayed because he was afraid of leaving us (9 of us) alone with her if they separated sooner.
yeah 😭😭😭my father endured decades of abuse and torture from my malignant narcissist mom. He just passed away. She robbed me of a beautiful dad daughter relationship for the last 15 years. 😡going zero contact. The only reason i had some communication with her it was because of him. At this point I don’t give a flying fu ck what happens to her after the funeral. She never cared and she never will.
Never thought of it this way. Thank you
I can’t begin to tell you how painful this vid was. I am the codependent parent. I had no idea!! Thank you, thank you for sharing this video! I wish I had someone to talk to and sort this out!
Please contact a therapist that specializes in narcissistic abuse. Don’t try to do this alone and please don’t let this slide. You could save your kids a lifetime of mental and physical illnesses that typically happen to adult children of narcissists. In my family, a cousin died of chrone’s disease in his 30s, another died Lou Gehrig’s disease, two had to be hospitalized for mental health issues, and one is an enabler of their narcissistic spouse. Please protect them by protecting yourself.
If your spouse was a cheater, you’ll find a lot of support and help at survivinginfidelity.com.
Your going to end up homeless or in jail... like my dad. 👍
@@prittyugly86
What is the purpose of your comment here?
@@prittyugly86 you cause braindamage. I guess it is your grief about your dad that you cruelly put onto someone else. That is evil.
My anger wasn’t because my mom wasn’t a narcissistic but because she adopted some of my dad’s narcissistic behavior, and used them against her children, while looking like a saint outside.
Same here
It's hard when you are ordered by a court to divide child's time w the narc parent. This is a situation that hinders getting away. The child is forced to go through the bad experience. One day courts may get educated on protecting children.
@@jazmine9570 this country is all about greed. Children have no real voice here. They are a commodity.
My mom still won't admit anything and I'm middle age. I try to express my experience. She still ignores, shifts blame, rationalizes, justifies, says it was so long ago, etc. Kinda hurts. I'm getting closer and closer to no contact with her.
That’s exactly what my mom does even says that things that we know clearly happened didn’t and says she doesn’t remember or it was years ago
Yeh, I tried to raise it and apparently my pain was a mere "grudge" but my telling her thatvshe hurt me, now that was real pain and I upset her and I upset my father and I should be ashamed et cetera. It was about 3 years until I finally realised that she is UNREACHABLE. Her narrative that she is perfect is the only narrative. She will pathologise me to avoid 2 minutes self reflection. I feel angry with her but also a tiny bit sorry for her. What is the point being a martyr to motherhood if the daughter she raised is not a real person to her. I'm the part she wrote for me and no more. I have a reciprocally honest relationship with my 20yr old daughter. I support her more as she's still a v young adult, but my love isn't conditional. Weirdly, my mother tries to "win" my daughter from me. She won't win that so I feel angry with her for trying but also sorry for her. None of us are real to her.
Yeah, I look at my mom and I don't think she realizes people don't actually like her. She has bullied/manipulated everyone into lmaking things around her but they still don't like her. Her only daughter and her only grandson have only the most minimal contact with her. @@SusanaXpeace2u
Hard to believe we stayed to shield our smaller children from the abuse on everyone a narc can inflict after divorce,that many tmes can be worse. imagine tactics used to save your life from a bear, terrorist, home invasion or other threat. Courts just throw everyone back into the fray by custody or financial arrangements.
Be honest, kids can also expect divorced parents to get along for their sake when parents may not want to. It clearly is a d if you do and d if you dont'.
Getting divorced does NOT protect the child from a narc parent. The child will then be left alone with the narc parent for visitation days/weeks.
Probably would have in our situation. He wouldn't even have gotten visitation rights if the stuff he was doing to us had been reported.
My heart bleeds every time my kids have to spend time with their father. He ignores them live, rub in his rejection and keep telling them how they waste his time, he is very busy trying to get money to take care of them. My son is trauma bonded to his dad and my daughter becomes anxious. It is so sad
or they are stuck with the narc alone most of the time...
True, but maybe makes the kids less likely to marry one and shows that it is possible to leave one. Which might be the most valuable thing you could ever give them.
@@bahle20 I'm so sorry you're/they're going through that.
My “healthier” parent was afraid of the other who was beating us. We were all abused.
For the non narc parents out there who are still coming to terms with the fact that, despite their best efforts they allowed the abuse, contributed to the abuse, or denied the abuse ---- the best thing you can do for your kids, is get therapy for yourself. Understand what brokenness in you made you choose that partner, made you stay, and made you deny your kid's pain and experience.
You will have a much better chance of a relationship with your kids when they no longer feel unsafe with expressing their reality because you have done enough therapy to get it, and heal yourself.
I've been in therapy in Spain but no one address this wounds. They tell me to see positive things in my life, be positive that's all.
@@angelicacroitoru4946 I'm so sorry they were so dismissive of your pain. It sounds like the therapists you've had fundamentally don't understand trauma, and unfortunately a lot of the mental health field is like that. Sure It's good to see the joy in the little moments --- but positivity has never fixed anyone's trauma. You can't smile your way out of being traumatized. (What your therapists were peddling sounds like Toxic Positivity). And it's so much better/healthier to be honest about where your emotions are at instead of trying to feel positive when you don't. Trauma is stored in the body, and it's not something you can think your way out of --- you have to feel the hard stuff and let yourself grieve. I'm still working on that myself (being honest about my emotions and feeling them). Some online psychologists and advocates that really helped me were Patrick Teahan, Ingrid Clayton and Nate Postlethwait --- their content might feel more genuine and helpful.
this video shook something inside my chest. It brings back a lot of old feelings. In my case, my father was somewhere between psychopathic and narcissistic. I honestly gave up trying to come up with what term fits him best. He was a really violent, explosive person that manipulated everyone around him, whilst at the same time pretending to be a faithful church man who lives a righteous life. Our lives were hell. I had an awkward anxiety that looks like PTSD every day around 5:30pm because that's the time he would be coming home from work. the energy in the house would change completely. Mom would tell me and my sister to go to our rooms and pretend we were studying if we had no homework to do. She'd be in the kitchen cooking and she would look so eradic and agitated. We lived through hell. My mom tried to escape a few times but she was always caught. In one of the times she left the state but my dad was able to track her down by going up to one of her sisters and threatening to kill my grandma if she didn't take him to where my mom was. You'd think police would do something about it, but they're only any good after the fact. They don't believe women and you have to show up at the police station with a few teeth missing for them to remotely care. My dad would hit us in places that wouldn't leave a bruise, like the head. the "bright side" of it was that the situation was so clear that me, my mom and sister stuck together like we were just one thing, and we always found validation in one another's feelings. As we grew older, it became harder and harder for my mom to just leave, because of custody issues. I am the youngest and when I turned 18 it was I who saw the opportunity to finally do something about it all. My mom was so battered she couldn't even come up with a plan, she'd sometimes just pray God would kill him from natural causes someday. I took some months but came up with a plan to get all of us out of that hell hole, and it was almost a movie kinda thing. We left at like 6 as soon as we saw him leave for work. That was the last time I saw my dad, and thankfully I could then begin my recovery from all his abuse. I feel bad for my mom for having endured all that. She tried her best to protect us but there was just so much she could do, and the damage happened regardless of her good intentions. We try to hype each other up and push each other forward, but in our own shortcomings there's a scar from the past that only we can understand. It's a sad reminder and a tug-of-war between being kind to yourself and trying not to settle for just grieving and trying to make life worthwhile and enjoy its beauty. To love is a burden, and the love that sheltered us from the damage caused by my father is the same love that held us from leaving on our own and leaving the rest of us behind. There is sadness in loving, and more love within the sadness.
I'm so sorry....if you're not familoar with Chonda Pierce....her story is similar.
This is an all too familiar story and it made me sad. I hope your family is well and thriving now that you’ve escaped that life.
I’m so sorry that happened, and wish he had been arrested. May you have a life free of him forever.
I have major anxiety between five and six every day, I’m almost fifty and still feel so much stress at the time my narc parent used to come home
Ah poor you sugar, it'll pass, try to nourish other things in your head, let it all reve, it'll quiet like a volcano 🌋 in time.
I feel you. Certain rhythms (times of day, times of year) can stay in our sympathetic nervous system for a long time. Hugs!
That is awful. I hope eventually you can find peace 🥺
No one should feel anxiety when anybody comes home. I lived that life for over 20 years! It's a shame that the children of narcissistic parents have to endure such pain. We had no choice in the matter.
Holy moly, my young adult/ teen kids often get into arguments during the time that their narc parent used to come home.
I'm gonna change up the ambiance of the environment, maybe some quiet relaxation music in the background, a scented candle that invokes positive memories, and some healthy, light pre-supper snacks to curb any hangry pangs. Oh, and maybe a basket with some coloring books, quick puzzles, and brain teaser games they can do individually to take the edge off.
My Dad was a truly great parent when my mom wasn't there!
That wasn't often. It doesn't come close to excusing his ridiculous betrayals or constant gaslighting. He used us both as human shields for his own benefit.
Bottom line? They were quite a pair.
My dad is a huge enabler, to my mom and siblings for being abusive..he literally just doesn’t care who gets hurt along the way as long as he doesn’t have to express one emotion because that’s too terrifying for him, cowardly
I feel so seen with this comment… it’s unreal the how normal one is actually happy if someone else is targeted as long as it isn’t them.
There were times when my father stood up for me and protected me from my evil narc mother, but those times were too infrequent to be relied upon.
I recently watched your short Reel on not forgiving the narc parent. That its ok. Finally made me feel like I could feel what I felt. People are always turning it around on the victims, forcing them to be the bigger person and forgive. Narc abuse lasts forever on the child, their self esteem, how they view the world, the relationships they have, all of it. Then you study all of this, realize what you went through, and how the "normal" parent, didn't protect you, AND refuses to acknowledge the damage, and how much you tried to save them, you can't help but have anger and not able to move forward with an adult relationship still controlled, you realize the dynamic is almost impossible to maintain. The codependent always chooses the main narc parent over the children typically. As long as the main narc is alive, they will control the dynamic, and to where the healthier parent caves and becomes almost mentally not well. You can't win and will have to exit out... to save yourself.
I was the parent who stayed thank you for doing this video. I did not understand what I do now. I left, but had stayed for 31years.
So glad u are sharing this
Me too.
Same story
Yep... that was my dad. You totally screwed yourself and everyone around you.
@@prittyugly86
Another encouraging response. Please stop.
This had me in tears. Going through the angry confused stage right now
Hey there, how are you doing now? I’m in this stage now. Wondering how your healing journey has been ❤️
Empathy is the key to forgiveness and health. That is the essence of "healing." Wishing you understanding and reconciliation.
It's amazing because I was thinking about this when I got this notification. I understand my mom has had a lot of trauma herself. But she's picked up alot of his traits and I think it's just time for me to move a way and keep my distance
My mother was normal but died early. My step-mother was the narcissist and in hindsight I realize my dad was her co-dependent and completely enabled her while I was made the black sheep and my brother was the made the golden child. It took me years of therapy to figure out all these toxic dynamics and how it affected my disorganized attachment style. I spent years in a toxic obsessive relationship and now at the age of 49 find myself unmarried and childless. It has been nothing but an uphill battle to figure all this out but now at least, I understand, I’m not constantly reactive and inexplicably anxious or depressed. For the first time in my life, I feel like I finally have some semblance of control.
OMG’sh...I have a very similar story, only my mother didn’t die when I was young. My brother was the golden child, I was the black sheep and my dad enabled my step-b*tch. At 50-years old and unmarried, I still have nightmares about her. It’s amazing how much damage one person can do. I’m glad you’re doing better now.
So happy for you and your progress.
It sounds so familiar! Narc mother, codependent and enabler father, golden child brother and me, the black sheep. 49yo, divorced and childless.The toxicity never ends until you leave!
@@claudiaherrera1624 Very True... I only have a relationship with my dads side of the family because of these types of toxic behaviors. I walked away years ago and it was the best thing I ever did for me! No one likes to be gas lighted etc. etc, all the time. Toxic people are not worth your time or energy. Happy holidays and take care
My heart goes out for you ❤️❤️
I remember "The phrase: (A sort of warning from my mother) "now father is coming" - and every joy and a certain amount of hygge (yes I am danish) dissappeared immediately. My elder siblings hurried to their room and I just stood there - being to small to understand what was going on - but man, I remember the atmosphere changing to fear and anxiety.
When my father died, my mum threw the pills against anxiousness away. She had 5-6 years in peace before she got dementia.
I have been doubting, which of my parents was the narcissistic one, or both - but in the last years I understand what an awful life my mother had , bringing up 6 children mostly on her own. She had deserved better.
I remember lying awake at night, in bed, waiting for my father to come home. The anxiety of hearing the car turn into the driveway. And then holding my breath to listen to see if he was in an okay mood, or a bad mood. If he was in a bad mood, he would sometimes storm upstairs and start slapping us over some ridiculous thing like I forgot to close a window, or got a bad test grade. I'm no contact with both parents for about 10 years now. It's a sadness that will never be completely gone.
i had a narcissistic mother and a kind and loving father. I adored him, never felt anger toward him. I actually look back and feel so blessed that I had him in my life.
Same here. My father is also a victim of my mother’s abuse. He doesn’t fully realize these patterns but he actively calls my narc mother out and she unleashes her narc rage. I think he grew up with a narc mother and thinks this abuse is healthy and normal because it’s familiar. Really sad.
@@sarahnicoleanastasia my story exactly, growing up my narc mother made sure I had no bond with my father, when I became an adult I made the effort of bonding with him without my narc mother in the picture, from there a beautiful connection started and he always reciprocated love. I get angry thinking I was robbed of it and so much as a child but thankful that I have it today in some way.
I was blessed with a kind, awesome father. I have 2 brothers and 2 sisters. When I was a child I would fantasize that my family was my father, my grandmother, my little sister and me. I used to think that life would be good if it was just us.
Same. But my dad is definitely an enabler. Hard to say if his childhood had a similar dynamic but he definitely didn’t do anything to blunt the narc rage. I definitely went through some bouts of anger and guilt that my dad wasn’t stronger willed and able to protect us from the abuse
I used to beg my mother to stop letting my father treat her so bad. When ever he left (usually storming out) she begged him to come back. She would fall apart and I was left to take care of her.
I am sorry you had to go through that...Your mother was very immature and codependant to put you through that💔No child should be put through that at all...
Yep. Dad was a buffer, but he did suffer. All the way up until the end of his life. At least I was able to hold his hand as he passed. I felt all the love we had for had for each other as he took his final breath. My knees actually gave out. I thought all the light went out of my life for awhile. As I know now he is at peace (6 years now) I too am at peace.
No contact w/Mother for 5 1/2 years now. Life is good. Love is real.
Love this. Thank you for sharing. Love is real :)
Thank you for sharing this, Tanya. My non-narcissist father was like a buffer too, but passed away in January of this year due to cancer at 65. It was horrendous and traumatic dealing with it especially when you have a narcissistic mother who always made me feel like hell everyday. How did you handle that time if you don't mind me asking?
As a 10 year old who told them to divorce, 30 years ago, i did my job.
hihi, same :) My therapist answered something like "interesting..., a child would say that only, if it´s true, because the natural instinct would be to keep both parents near. But chidren have a very good sense for what would be good for the family system" Kids are little truthtellers, mh? ;)
I also asked my parents to divorce, but they didn't
I really needed this one. It took until my 30s to recognize that my father was the narc and my mother was the codependent. Mom is an alcoholic. My siblings and I all have PTSD. I saw my father's narcissism plainly when I confronted him about his gaslighting. It broke my heart to watch the disdain for me in his eyes. Ever since I've gone NC, I've had to reprocess so much trauma through this new understanding. Researching family histories to figure out how they got this way, and keep myself from becoming them. Extended family can't understand what we experienced, so I've gone NC with most of them, too. I still feel like I need to rescue my mom from him, and I also recognize that isn't my responsibility. Lost my family but gained self love and freedom. Thank you for your work, Dr. Ramani. Would love to hear more about the topic of breaking family patterns of narcissism and coping with all that entails.
My non narcissistic parent left when I was minor and didn't take me with them. They had the choice to leave and I didn't. That's a really hard one to let go of.
I can relate absolutely
This is HUGE piece of the puzzle. I often find myself talking about my non-narc parent in therapy because there is so much more to unpack there- lots of grief. Thank you Dr. Ramani.
My other parent seemed like a victim to me. It really hit me when Dr Ramani said, you can’t protect them… I wanted to protect my father but couldn’t, felt a lot of guilt about that. Cried a lot in response to this video. Thank you for this
I feel like my mom killed my father. Not physically but she sucked the life out of him. I had to leave for my own life and sanity but have had years and years of guilt for leaving him there with her.
The closer I got to my house after work, I'd start panicking and crying 😢
Mee too, not panicking, but all the joy is gone..I used to cry in the begining of my mariage. I am "the normal" parent, yep..
This dynamic is my mom and dad. I cried watching this because it is so heartbreaking to see how accurately you have described both of them. I can't stop crying.
From the non-narcissistic parent viewpoint. So devastating. So intensely complex period so extremely painful to watch my now adult children suffer. 😕
Try being the adult child.
As a teenager watching this, it feels so sad that it’s not my past, but my present 😰. Thank you for this video, it gave me hope💗
I wish you luck. If other people can get through it you can too, Sending a hug!
Hope things are OK. Praying 4 u
Dr. Ramani, you must be reading my mail. Those of us who are older need to remember that our parents got married in an era where they were VERY young, and in many cases, divorce was really not an option.
Yes correct, I was married when I was 16 and 40 years with a narcissist husband husband with 3 children, knew nothing about narcissism. Took all the abuse from husband and in-laws. . Non supportive parents, they use to say , at least you have hv all luxuries, so what there is abuse, it will get ok after some years, don’t worry.
I was 19, devout Catholic, had been brought up gently by good parents, and incredibly naive.
"The narcissistic parent was the ultimate joy killer", this was so true.
My mum's leaving my narcissistic father now that both her kids are adults. It'll be much healthier for all of us, but despite numerous talks I still feel like she diminishes the physical abuse I've received. 'Are you sure you're not overreacting? Are you sure it was that bad/that often/whatever?' Maybe she's struggling to accept that she failed to protect me from more than she thinks, but it sure feels like gaslighting all over again.
Definitely. She can’t cope with the fact that she failed to protect you and she wants to believe she gave her kids a good childhood.
Yep, gaslighting. Just try to remember her guilt is not your responsibility. Best of luck!
I have lived it too, she is the victim and only recently have I understood by lacking empathy towards her children, even if passively, she also had narcissistic tendencies.
Sorry you're re-experiencing the crap again. It's your choice to relate to her or not. All on your terms now!
Thanks for reassuring me, everybody. I think I'll try to revisit the topic someday as not all is lost (e.g. she acknowledges the toll our father has taken on our mental health, she paid for a lot of my therapy and talking with her after sessions helped me set several issues straight), but that's after the dust settles after the father finally moving out and she gets to recover a bit. Until an appropriate day comes, I'll just silently stick to my reality as it is what has shaped me.
You literally READ MY HEART…. This explains A LOT… the feeling of darkness and anxiety when my mother comes home 🤯 this video hits so hard
They're *supposed* to be there protecting you, gave you a monster for a mom and when you *do* see him he wines about how she treated him! Instead of dealing with it, he takes off to become a dead beat dad, thanks!
Same
Same here but with the genders reversed. My mom often used me as a personal therapist to complain about how my dad treated her, but she supported him whenever he abused me. I personally feel more hatred for her than for my dad. Because at least I know my dad has genuine issues but my mom knew he was toxic, but still took his side whenever I was his target for the day. I hope she rots in hell...
Yeah it's like they are some other child, and you are supposed to act like the listening dad for them
"The mere sound of the car pulling into the driveway.... " wow! All to reaffirming.... that feeling.
Thank-you, Thank-you for reminding me
Oh my god and imagine the anger when the non-narcissistic parent is deceased. Then all that’s left is the narcissistic parent who is extremely abusive.
Yep, quite the quagmire. Going no contact with my narc mom has helped.
Yep. How do you manage to not rage at life/god/whatever after what feels like the story should have been flipped, and there would be a good ending?
This is one of the more heartbreaking scenarios...the non narc is just run to the ground prematurely and you can only wonder what they would have been without the narcissist. And of course the narcissistic parent is likely looking to fill that void! I would run in the other direction.
It's about to be the story of my life. My non narcissistic mother is terminally ill while my narcissistic father is perfectly healthy. I have dreamed of the day where he is no longer apart of our lives but now it looks like that won't happen because my mother will be gone instead. It makes me so frustrated and angry
That's where I am. Dad died 11 years ago. He left me here with her. 😭
This is so true. My mother was the narcissist one and my dad was the co-dependent. My mother was so abusive to my father it broke my heart. My dad stayed until his death. I married a narcissist and I was the co-dependent one. I left the abuser and divorced him. By having a narcissist parent and all the drama my whole life I’ve never had a successful relationship with a man. My mother from day one has ingrained it into my brain I’m not enough or worthy. I have done a lot of therapy over the years to try to make me really feel better about me. I’m literally afraid and have anxiety to date anyone.
I am weeping listening to this ... I tried so hard to ‘protect’ my children - I never knew what narcissism was at that time. Out of 4 of my children, 2 -3 of them don’t want me in their lives, but they keep in touch their narc father... I don’t understand it and it’s so emotionally painful ! 😢
me too, one daughter loves me, the other hates me. I allowed her to shame and blame me for years and finally had to go no contact.
@@meeperbird I cannot stop sobbing after listening to this ~ and to think I allowed it by staying with my ex husband. . . . .it makes me sick!
@@lindabell6954 Oh Linda ~ I get it. One of my daughters has gone no contact with me for years and I can feel her hatred ~ and the other daughter has stated "I'm done" referring to me. Wow, this topic really hit home didn't it.
@@meeperbird 💔
I cannot even begin to tell you HOW MUCH this little video means. Those words are the acknowledgement and validation I have been needing since years. I will keep this in mind now whenever I gaslight myself in the future.
Being codependent myself has caused me to be angry with myself. I am finally learning to make changes, and it is helping me create peace.❤️
This was my family dynamic. My non narc enabling parent still doesn't get it and never will. I have to keep things light and superficial with the codependent parent.
This video is so helpful and validating. I listen to Dr. Ramani because it feels so good just to be understood. I haven't had that feeling with ANYONE in my whole life. I am now learning about CPTSD symptoms and doing my best to process and manage it all. Thank you Dr. Ramani. You are a continued source of help and healing for me.
.
Been there, done that. 1 narc 1 codependent parent. Sickening. But I never blamed myself. Absolutely not my fault.
My father finally left my narc mother when I was 15 (having told me some confidences he probably shouldn't have, but I did feel we had a loving relationship); but he caved and came back after 6 months, and was never really the same with me again. I remember how wonderful it was to be with him when I was a kid, but he just backed off after he came home from leaving. He did try to protect me a couple of times--I once overheard him saying to her, "Why are you always picking on her?" meaning me. While he was gone, he'd tell me how he was going to have a room for me where he lived, but it never happened. And he only saw my brother and me in public places while he was gone. He never got established in a new home. When he came home again, he may have felt guilty around me (my brother was already out of the house for all this), and he never talked to me about it again. Years later, I suspect my mother did what she could to alienate him from me. And after he died she told me he had told her in his old age that she was the most wonderful person he'd ever known. So--apparently, he just couldn't maintain his own identity in that toxic relationship. I know he said several friends told him he had "an inferiority complex." How awful that he chose her, and stuck with her!
I had a peace-loving gentle mother. My father was a bully a lot of the time, mostly at the dinner table. My mother would slave away in the kitchen to make nice meals, and then we'd all get indigestion when he'd start trying to cause arguments. I was the main target because I'd let him provoke me into a fight. My mother would always ask me to stop fighting. Of course, he loved that, because I was getting the blame for what he started. So I bought a camcorder, and got lots of good footage showing exactly how these fights started. When I played them back to my mother, she apologized and gave her reasoning as, "I knew you'd possibly be reasonable and stop, but he never would. I just wanted for once to be able to have a peaceful dinner." What she called a peaceful dinner would have had to be a silent dinner, with all of us having knots in our stomachs.
I recognize all of this. By the time I got to this level my mom had Alzheimer’s. I did recognize the factors leading to her staying but from a mom who was such a momma bear and would do anything for us, I did not understand why she stayed when we we’re definitely emotional abused and sometimes physically. I never felt angry, just very sad and confused.
Literally the narcisistic parent breaks the joy of the family, specially if the back sheep (for her) is the one who is happy.
Yes, I agree. Can hear the words "I envy your happyness so much" from my narc parent in my head...
My experience is that narcissistic parents destroy families and so badly that it seems it can never recover.
@@jennyp4934 I think Doctor Ramani is trying to help and you....are not being very positive.
I'm just stating my experience.
Outstanding video. After years of therapy to help me first recognize and then make personal peace with my narcissistic father, I was actually shocked to find that there was a previously hidden layer of fury at my mother for always letting my father “get away with it” despite what I do believe was her genuine love for me. I pitied her her inability to protect herself, but I resent her inability to protect her only child. She and I both lived in fear, but she was the only one of us who had the potential to change that-and she didn’t. Ultimately, she was a hostage to my narcissistic father when aging made him increasingly abusive and her dementia prevented her from even contemplating escape. Tragic for her, of course, but I spent their last years trying to endure him to save her, which ultimately was impossible. Profoundly damaging stuff all around, and a tremendously important topic!
Agreed
This is really enlightening. As an alienated parent experiencing anger and hostility from grown-up sons who are still being isolated and manipulated, I am now beginning to see that there might be more to their feelings than simply the narcissist pulling their strings. I was a good, or good enough parent, and did my best to give my kids a nice, loving upbringing just as I got from my parents. The situation was made impossible due to the constant chaos and crazy-making of my ex and it took me too long to figure out that she was wired differently from normal human beings and had no empathy. I do not know if my sons will ever "get it" or whether their anger will be permanent but this video was very helpful.
At least you’re starting to try and see their side or understand things beyond just your perspective. Many of us with narc or enabling parents don’t even get acknowledgement that there was a problem
A good, kind and loving parent does not deserve blame for the narcs doings.
@@Bekind7868 Like you, things changed for me once I discovered the word narcissism and realised I had to change because the narc will never change. The kids do not realise that, when you are in the situation, you are powerless to stop the random chaos and abuse. It just keeps detonating and you try to keep the peace. Looking back, I can see why the kids might judge us (wrongly) for enabling the behaviour. They are angry that we did not stop it, but they do not realise that we couldn't stop it.
Did you stay in the relationship until they were grown?
@@omar1818 Yes
Growing up with a brutal narcissist father/codependent mother, the youngest of three, I was shielded from the reality of my family dynamic by everyone. They divorced when I turned 18 (I’m now 36), and in the years that followed the rose colored facade of what I thought my family was like has slowly been eroded away. My older sisters have become horrible narcissists themselves, and my mother never got over her codependency, and is now codependent on them. My father died in 2019. I now have to live a life without any of them because they are so toxic to me.
It's like you walked right into my household. Every statement in your video hit the nail square on the head... (I am the non narcissistic parent) your videos have helped me immensely. Thank you for what you do...
OMG, my mother (the non narc) use to say that all the time, " he (my father, the raging alcoholic narc) wants whats best for you." This video was a bit triggering of old buttons that live inside me.
Can you do more videos on this one? Lots resonated here..
Yes, please Dr Ramini! Thank you so much for this one, as it validated what I believe my kids feel. I’m the non-narc parent, and grieve for my kids, and the childhood they had to endure. I stayed with the narc (32 years!) until after the kids left home, for many reasons, but most of all I didn’t want a court fight with the kids in the middle, and didn’t want them to have to be with him alone for visitation. Now my oldest son stays very distant, and I would love some tips on how to reach him to heal the relationship.
Oh, yes, yes, please
@@scrappysista acknowledge the abuse and how your actions contributed to it and apologise. My mother refuses to acknowledge it and dismisses it as " the past" or " here we go again " and for that reason I cannot get over it or forgive her. Once again she is choosing her comfort over my safety . Taking accountability helps the victim a lot.
Thank you Doctor Ramani! Your video made so much sense to me. I have compassion for my Mom, but just now learning to give it to myself. My Mom is still with my self-righteous narcissistic Dad - over 50 years together. She saw his abuse. She bore witness to it and did so much praying. She grew up with two narcissistic parents and a narcissistic sister. She told us kids the best thing to do was be quiet whenever Dad was angry. I was never a quiet child. Dad was angry everyday, multiple times a day. We all walked on eggshells around him. He took his frustrations out on us. We were always being compared to others: other people in the church’s kids, his work colleagues kids. We were never good enough even thought we were really good kids with great grades. Our Mom was always told she was too fat, wasn’t as good a housekeeper as his Mom. We were the family you described that went from having a fun lovely time together Mom and us kids, until we heard the sound of the garage door opening. Then it was “places” and hope Dad was in a good mood at that moment. On the really bad days I watched our Mom try to deflect his anger away from us kids and take it all on herself. By the time I was 12, I started to deflect the attention to me when I saw our Mom was at her wits end and being gaslighted by our Dad. I am the truth teller in my family. I wish I could see my Mom more than I get to, but he controls her still to this day. I can see the defeat on her face. The toll living with our Dad has taken on her mental and physical health makes my blood boil!
I don’t think my kids saw it this way. They saw their Dad as the hero ( which he wanted them to believe). Not understanding that he really was manipulating them and only conditional love.
My kids don’t see it neither (sometimes also a bit of a case of not wanting to see it). I protected them from his “nonsense”. I called him out on his bad behaviour, even though at that time I didn’t understand what was wrong.
The kids are now adults and I am happy to say that they do not seem “damaged”. But I do see their “pain” when once again I am in pain during yet another outburst. He mostly doesn’t do it when other people (even our grown up kids) are around as he’s too worried that anyone will figure out how he really behaves.
Sometimes our “kids” know that I pass through “shitty, toxic” periods (attacks), and they are sympathetic to me. But they love both of us, so they just feel hurt for us both (and the situation).
@@eleonoraeona7395 I have exact same situation at home currently, word for word
It sounds like you are in a parental alienation situation. Please look that up.
@@AmandaBuxbaum yes I know it is but my courts are ignorant about it so fighting an uphill battle. May not be able to afford experts etc necessary to win plus still could lose after.
@@kayvas8590 Stay strong and (as doctor Ramani says) keep owning your truth and keep those boundaries firmly in place. There is no excuse for them to behave in such a way.
My mom is the narcissist whereas my dad has been her punching bag. She minimized, dismissed, invalidated and completely destroyed his self-esteem. She conducted multiple smear campaigns against him and the foundation was created as far back as I could remember. I never quite understood why growing up because my dad and I had a precious relationship. Majority of my childhood memories that I cherish, go back to my dad and I sharing time together. My mom tried her best to triangulate my dad and I once I grew up, but I always knew deep down in my heart that my dad was a good person no matter how hard my mom tried to make him seem otherwise. In the process, my dad lost a lot of who he was and whom I expected him to be as a parent and at times it made me believe what my mom was painting all along. Recently, I discovered what narcissism truly encompasses and put all the dots together. Honestly, I feel a lot towards my mom but it has been somewhat easier to distant myself from her even though it is very much difficult..BUT, the feelings of resentment, upset, hurt, anger, grief..somewhat of dad, you were selfish and didn't protect us? ..it is much more tough. This video is spot on. It's a struggle I deal with every day as far as my dad is concerned.
I clung to my narcissist parent, until he chose to leave when I was 13.
Life was not pretty with my mother and I. We were strangers, we were angry, we were both abandoned and left reeling.
I am thankful for her, because she’s the reason I have goodness in me. I’m am thankful that she always normalized therapy. I am especially glad that she and I pushed though our personal growing pains and have a good relationship now.
This was incredibly helpful. My “normal dad” has managed to hurt me more than my narcissistic mother.
He makes the money and could’ve easily gotten us away from her, knows it’s all been a shitshow and what it’s done to me and my sister, admits it, then looks me deadass in the eyes and says, but yeah anyway sorry I still choose her over you, good luck.
Any respect I had left for him was eviscerated in a millisecond and as her enabler, I blame him almost more.
However to your point this rage I have at him isn’t doing me any favors. Just need to stay away from them probably.
After my dad died, I am no longer able to cope with the abuse of my narcissistic mother. The abuse is physical, mental, and emotional. I'm getting it 100% now. Dad and I shared an understanding of what it was like to live with her. I don't have my dad to comfort and support me anymore. I'm moving out of her house. I have to protect my health.
I feel your pain. My dad died over 2 yrs ago, sudden heart attack probably brought on by the yrs of abuse from my very narcissist mom. I am eldest of 5 kids and because I was close to dad I am now getting even more abuse from my mother. It has been unbearable and I no longer have dad to be the buffer and protect me. I have gone grey rock with mom and will probably walk away. Thank god there is an ocean between us. Really miss my dad and wish I could have done more for him . . .
I never blamed my dad. He was always proud of me ,and loved me unconditionally.. He himself sufferd my mums abuse..More and more when he got older and sick... I'm, even more angry with my mum for what she did to him. But in some way he saved me. But he was also the reason I could not go "no contact".
“It shaped you” it’s so true- being the child vrs “the peer” of the non narc. They can’t fully get it and it hurts when they try to put you in their shoes vrs stepping into yours- the helpless child who was shaped by the narc
"...it hurts when they try to put you in their shoes vrs stepping into yours"
Omg this this this. So much this.
I was confided into by both and in a way Very inappropriately and Unhealthy. They saw me as a peer, more than their child.
I wondered for a while why I used to be so angry toward my dad, I always felt like I was just a terrible kid. It makes alot more sense now. Thank you for this.
I'd love an extension to this episode on parents who divorce and as a child you're left feeling completely abandoned in narcisstic home to fend for yourself. So much hurt.
@@SweetiePieTweety luckily my non narc parent was in my life, but I always felt really alone. That parent and I have talked about the pain but it doesn't take it away. They got to live their new life and basically abandon their past and effectively ignoring the effect it had on us kids.
It took me longer to forgive my "healthy" parent. He still can't "hear" me, but I have grieved, and come to a place of acceptance.
I know he did his best--just as my mentally ill mother did--but were limited by their upbringing and trauma and who knows what else.
It is as it is and I love them.
I am now relate to them as they and I are Now.
But it was much work on my part to heal.
So worth it.
I now have peace and can love freely.
Lol ya, I remember when my dad would come home I knew the fun was gone. When he left which was usually the early afternoon 3/4pm I knew the day was beginning. I even remember the joy and relief I felt when he’d leave
YES! My mom is the covert narcissist....my dad the codependent one. Right up until he died young he would call me in frustration saying "Ya gotta do something about your Ma...I can't" And then I would go into my role of "fixing" things for my mother that day. Yeah....I love him dearly, I miss him terribly....but I'm angry for being sucked into doing his job. HE married her...I did not.
Dad was physically / emotionally abusive to mum. Mum left a number of times. Mum's family kept persuading her to go back, she did. I didnt speak to my dad coz of all I'd witnessed. Then, when things were bad between them, mum would tell me how she hated my dad and validated what I felt. When things were good she'd gas light me and say 'why don't u get along with your dad. Youre making my life difficult'. After she eventually left him of her own volition, she and the extended family said I was responsible for that break up. She then took her life when he remarried coz she was heavily codependent on him and her family made her feel like she was nothing without him. To this day the extended family say I'm responsible even though they witnessed how my dad was. I was also the black sheep. The extended family have now fed that narrative to my siblings who I raised (but were too young to remember abuse) and its like theyre brainwashed. I just stay away. I really didn't have any chance with anyone.
❤️
That is terrible. I am so sorry for what you have gone through.
@@lousilver5852 thank u xo
I’m so sorry to read this. Sending peace.
Thank you Dr. Ramani. Now that I'm 50 years old I can really see in a more objective way how truly messed up both of my parents were in a lot of ways. My mom is the nurturing one, my dad the covert narcissist. And in my childhood, oh God, how I took on the blame!!! But no more.
This has been exactly what I've been struggling to understand and cope with recently. Thank you.
me 2
Thank you for this video. Both of my parents were narcs and my sister is a narc golden child.