The one church plan says that you can trust the leadership to obey the book of discipline and treat pastors and churches fairly even when they hold positions the leadership says is the equivalent of slavery. This same leadership has been unwilling to follow the discipline now. Why should we trust them in the future.
The so called UMC leadership is a master of gaslighting. Slavery and sexism, or other past sins of humanity or of the U.S. do not justify allowing for the blasphemy of GBLGQ.
@ Rev William McBride I encourage you to read prayerfully Matthew 19. If, after that, you still think that LGBTQ is not contrary to Christ's teachings, then no one can help you.
Let me suggest to those who will consider reading what my brothers have written below, that their comments are the perfect illustration of why it is pure folly, to suggest that the One Church Plan can in anyway bring Unity to our denomination. It is time for us to start looking at each other through the prism of God's magnificent Love. It is time for us to start speaking to each other with the humility of one who has been saved, only by the grace of God. It is time for us to speak to each other, that which we believe to be God's Truth, but speaking only through the filter of God's Love. My brothers' comments below represent what they believe to be God's Truth, even if not always spoken in God's Love. It doesn't mean that anyone is a bad person for what they believe; and there is certainly no quarter for someone to "shame" one of their brothers in Christ or pretend to know that the intentions of their heart as not holy. Let us take great care to first remove the log from our eye before we try to point to another. It is never constructive to do otherwise. My brothers, who I love through Christ, simply don't believe the same thing and there's no covenant they can enter into in good faith that will bridge that divide. God cannot be pleased with the amount of time, energy and resources we have put into fighting with our brothers and sisters in Christ about what we believe. A fallen world cannot see the Love of Christ in our words and actions. God is heart-broken about the way we speak to our brothers and sister in Christ with whom we disagree about the doctrine and polity of the church. I is so important to remember that a fallen world will not find God's Love in our words and actions. No matter how much we may disagree with each other, we are commanded by God to show each other the same love and humility, God showed to us on the cross. I pray we find a way to love, to respect, to pray for and to bless each other in such a way that there are no winners and no losers in God's eyes. I pray we find a way to humble ourselves before God and neighbor. I pray God gives us the courage and strength to end this unholy conflict and to begin anew, to focus on growing closer to Christ and growing the kingdom. I find the words of Bro. Shane Bishop to be full of encouragement and wisdom. I find his countenance of love, hope and humility to be a reflection of the Christ he offers to others. Lord in your mercy, hear our prayers. May the peace of Christ be with you.
I stand for unity through the modified traditional plan and a better understanding of how to help those with homosexual desires. The following is why with a challenge at the end; 2Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears Leviticus 18:22 Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable. Genesis 19:1-5 The two angels arrived at Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gateway of the city. When he saw them, he got up to meet them and bowed down with his face to the ground. “My lords,” he said, “please turn aside to your servant’s house. You can wash your feet and spend the night and then go on your way early in the morning.” “No,” they answered, “we will spend the night in the square.” But he insisted so strongly that they did go with him and entered his house. He prepared a meal for them, baking bread without yeast, and they ate. Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom -both young and old-surrounded the house. They called to Lot, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them.” Romans 1:26-28 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error. Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them. 1Corinthians 6:9-10 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. Jude 1:7 In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire. Isaiah 5:20 Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter. 1Timothy 1:8-11 We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers-and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine that conforms to the gospel concerning the glory of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me. Revelation 21:6-8 He said to me: “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life. Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children. But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars -they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.” Judges 19:22-23 While they were enjoying themselves, some of the wicked men of the city surrounded the house. Pounding on the door, they shouted to the old man who owned the house, “Bring out the man who came to your house so we can have sex with him. ” The owner of the house went outside and said to them, “No, my friends, don’t be so vile. Since this man is my guest, don’t do this outrageous thing. Mark 7:20-23 He went on: “What comes out of a person is what defiles them. 21 For it is from within, out of a person’s heart, that evil thoughts come-sexual immorality, theft, murder, 22 adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. 23 All these evils come from inside and defile a person.” Deuteronomy 22:5 A woman must not wear men’s clothing, nor a man wear women’s clothing, for the Lord your God detests anyone who does this. Leviticus 20:13 “‘If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads. Focus On The Family: “There is simply no scriptural support for endorsing sexual immorality (I.E. Sex outside the bond of heterosexual marriage) for anyone no matter what his or her personal sexual feelings may be” Joe Dallas - “perhaps someone here is wrestling with this sin as well, resist it! God will be with you as you do, and so will we.” Challenge - There are many scripture references which put homosexuality or any sexual immorality in a negative light. I challenge anyone to show a single scripture reference where homosexuality is portrayed in a positive light. goodnewsmag.org wesleyancovenant.org methodistcrossroads.org theirs.org (United Methodist Action) Confessing movement
I hear the Traditional plan activists speak loudly about this "gracious exit." You call it gracious, but I know it is term you use so you can feel good about your kicking out our dear LGBTQ brothers and sisters. Your Traditional plan or the MTP, may feel gracious for you, but put yourself into the shoes of those whom you so easily want to discriminate against. You say your Traditional plan is bibilical, so show me where Jesus backs your plan please. Jesus said nothing about the LGBTQ gift some have. Your plan is based solely on traditions and customs not on love, open doors and open minds, and especially open hearts. What happened to the rest of the Quadrilateral that speaks about scripture and reason? Judge not lest you too be judged. Scripture says love your neighbor and Reason says being gay is not a choice or a sin. I really don't care how big your church is and how many you have in worship, your heart is shrinking and your mind is closed. Maybe you need a new path to follow and renewed wisdom on this matter.
2019 Nature journal published the largest human genome based study. and concluded that "there is NO gay gene." Science says it is NOT by nature; not genetic, nor hereditary. US media wiped it out of their prints or webpages. CDC data shows gay life choice have 70% more likely to have deadly STDs. 2022 Monkey pox in the US was 100% transmitted at the gay bar. LGBT teens have at least x4 times higher suicide rates than straight teens. We really need to follow "reason" and science. And we truly need to follow the teachings of the scripture and the orthodox church. What's real love and care? Teaching and encouraging people to choose what is healthy, and a path to heaven, and a life that please God, not that saddens God. Calling said theology and belief a discrimination, a bigot or hate is gaslighting. Jesus said who loves their child and gives a stone instead of a bread? But you are instead giving them a stone, a snake, and a vile to commit eternal sin. Pastor, and a Christian, should fight for and advocate for the truth. Not be a sheep of Hollywood and social media. If Christians stood up for their Bible as much as they do for wokesism, we would have a revival by now.
Jordan Morton why should any church not be allowed to leave and keep theirs churches , if they feel the denomination is no longer representing their beliefs,and adopts a new ideology, that goes agents the belief of the congregation
Mark Monk because if that was how our system worked, people would be able to just up and leave at anything that rattled their interpretation of the Bible. You think people wanted to stay knowing they could have a female pastor? People STILL think they get a choice in that matter (they don’t)- but guess what? The denomination fixed a previous error in biblical interpretation, and now we have female clergy. This is no different. If you want to be a part of a denomination without a hierarchy, you could go to a non denominational church. I’m going to guess you don’t though- so you have to live with the rules (rules that can be changed through general conference. So, a petition could be raised next year to dismantle the trust clause if that is what enough people want- I don’t think they really do, and most Methodists aren’t going to leave no matter how the vote goes, they will just grumble)
J M thank you for your comment, I my self stood before my church and rejected the churches position on homosexuality and abortion and resigned my position as trustee , there are no nondenominational close ,there is one but they want to see a tax return to make sure you are giving your full tithing, I stay with the church because of the older members , they are great people feeling powerless , And you are rite there is No power in the hands of the people , it's sad what has happened ,but we have been told what would come to pass, If you don't like your job you leave it, you don't like a restaurant you don't eat at it, and those that have a problem should leave but they have no respect for the church so they seek to change it to what they want , this is the infection of New Age Progressive Liberal Ideology,
@@markmonk4310 This! It is sad that some are holding hostage of our older, senior or powerless people in the pews. I know people who's been a member for 5 generations and cannot leave just because of hijackers of wokeness social justice warriors came for a ruin.
@@JR-zw2vb I agree the reality is that progressive liberal Ideology and values are in complete opposition to fathers word and to accountability for their actions these are the mentally unstable with in our society in short progressive values are the values of the fallen 🙌☮🙏
The one church plan says that you can trust the leadership to obey the book of discipline and treat pastors and churches fairly even when they hold positions the leadership says is the equivalent of slavery. This same leadership has been unwilling to follow the discipline now. Why should we trust them in the future.
The so called UMC leadership is a master of gaslighting. Slavery and sexism, or other past sins of humanity or of the U.S. do not justify allowing for the blasphemy of GBLGQ.
@ Rev William McBride I encourage you to read prayerfully Matthew 19. If, after that, you still think that LGBTQ is not contrary to Christ's teachings, then no one can help you.
Let me suggest to those who will consider reading what my brothers have written below, that their comments are the perfect illustration of why it is pure folly, to suggest that the One Church Plan can in anyway bring Unity to our denomination.
It is time for us to start looking at each other through the prism of God's magnificent Love.
It is time for us to start speaking to each other with the humility of one who has been saved, only by the grace of God.
It is time for us to speak to each other, that which we believe to be God's Truth, but speaking only through the filter of God's Love.
My brothers' comments below represent what they believe to be God's Truth, even if not always spoken in God's Love.
It doesn't mean that anyone is a bad person for what they believe; and there is certainly no quarter for someone to "shame" one of their brothers in Christ or pretend to know that the intentions of their heart as not holy.
Let us take great care to first remove the log from our eye before we try to point to another. It is never constructive to do otherwise.
My brothers, who I love through Christ, simply don't believe the same thing and there's no covenant they can enter into in good faith that will bridge that divide.
God cannot be pleased with the amount of time, energy and resources we have put into fighting with our brothers and sisters in Christ about what we believe. A fallen world cannot see the Love of Christ in our words and actions.
God is heart-broken about the way we speak to our brothers and sister in Christ with whom we disagree about the doctrine and polity of the church. I is so important to remember that a fallen world will not find God's Love in our words and actions.
No matter how much we may disagree with each other, we are commanded by God to show each other the same love and humility, God showed to us on the cross.
I pray we find a way to love, to respect, to pray for and to bless each other in such a way that there are no winners and no losers in God's eyes.
I pray we find a way to humble ourselves before God and neighbor.
I pray God gives us the courage and strength to end this unholy conflict and to begin anew, to focus on growing closer to Christ and growing the kingdom.
I find the words of Bro. Shane Bishop to be full of encouragement and wisdom. I find his countenance of love, hope and humility to be a reflection of the Christ he offers to others.
Lord in your mercy, hear our prayers.
May the peace of Christ be with you.
I stand for unity through the modified traditional plan and a better understanding of how to help those with homosexual desires. The following is why with a challenge at the end;
2Timothy 4:3
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears
Leviticus 18:22
Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable.
Genesis 19:1-5
The two angels arrived at Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gateway of the city. When he saw them, he got up to meet them and bowed down with his face to the ground. “My lords,” he said, “please turn aside to your servant’s house. You can wash your feet and spend the night and then go on your way early in the morning.” “No,” they answered, “we will spend the night in the square.” But he insisted so strongly that they did go with him and entered his house. He prepared a meal for them, baking bread without yeast, and they ate. Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom -both young and old-surrounded the house. They called to Lot, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them.”
Romans 1:26-28
Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error. Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.
1Corinthians 6:9-10
Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
Jude 1:7
In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.
Isaiah 5:20
Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.
1Timothy 1:8-11
We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers-and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine that conforms to the gospel concerning the glory of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.
Revelation 21:6-8
He said to me: “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life. Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children. But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars -they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”
Judges 19:22-23
While they were enjoying themselves, some of the wicked men of the city surrounded the house. Pounding on the door, they shouted to the old man who owned the house, “Bring out the man who came to your house so we can have sex with him. ” The owner of the house went outside and said to them, “No, my friends, don’t be so vile. Since this man is my guest, don’t do this outrageous thing.
Mark 7:20-23
He went on: “What comes out of a person is what defiles them. 21 For it is from within, out of a person’s heart, that evil thoughts come-sexual immorality, theft, murder, 22 adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. 23 All these evils come from inside and defile a person.”
Deuteronomy 22:5
A woman must not wear men’s clothing, nor a man wear women’s clothing, for the Lord your God detests anyone who does this.
Leviticus 20:13
“‘If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.
Focus On The Family:
“There is simply no scriptural support for endorsing sexual immorality (I.E. Sex outside the bond of heterosexual marriage) for anyone no matter what his or her personal sexual feelings may be”
Joe Dallas - “perhaps someone here is wrestling with this sin as well, resist it! God will be with you as you do, and so will we.”
Challenge - There are many scripture references which put homosexuality or any sexual immorality in a negative light. I challenge anyone to show a single scripture reference where homosexuality is
portrayed in a positive light.
goodnewsmag.org
wesleyancovenant.org
methodistcrossroads.org
theirs.org
(United Methodist Action)
Confessing movement
This!
I hear the Traditional plan activists speak loudly about this "gracious exit." You call it gracious, but I know it is term you use so you can feel good about your kicking out our dear LGBTQ brothers and sisters. Your Traditional plan or the MTP, may feel gracious for you, but put yourself into the shoes of those whom you so easily want to discriminate against. You say your Traditional plan is bibilical, so show me where Jesus backs your plan please. Jesus said nothing about the LGBTQ gift some have. Your plan is based solely on traditions and customs not on love, open doors and open minds, and especially open hearts. What happened to the rest of the Quadrilateral that speaks about scripture and reason? Judge not lest you too be judged. Scripture says love your neighbor and Reason says being gay is not a choice or a sin. I really don't care how big your church is and how many you have in worship, your heart is shrinking and your mind is closed. Maybe you need a new path to follow and renewed wisdom on this matter.
2019 Nature journal published the largest human genome based study. and concluded that "there is NO gay gene." Science says it is NOT by nature; not genetic, nor hereditary. US media wiped it out of their prints or webpages.
CDC data shows gay life choice have 70% more likely to have deadly STDs. 2022 Monkey pox in the US was 100% transmitted at the gay bar.
LGBT teens have at least x4 times higher suicide rates than straight teens.
We really need to follow "reason" and science. And we truly need to follow the teachings of the scripture and the orthodox church.
What's real love and care? Teaching and encouraging people to choose what is healthy, and a path to heaven, and a life that please God, not that saddens God. Calling said theology and belief a discrimination, a bigot or hate is gaslighting.
Jesus said who loves their child and gives a stone instead of a bread? But you are instead giving them a stone, a snake, and a vile to commit eternal sin. Pastor, and a Christian, should fight for and advocate for the truth. Not be a sheep of Hollywood and social media. If Christians stood up for their Bible as much as they do for wokesism, we would have a revival by now.
Sounds to me like you are scared of the one church plan because you know you can't just leave with your building, money, pension, etc. Shame on you.
Jordan Morton why should any church not be allowed to leave and keep theirs churches , if they feel the denomination is no longer representing their beliefs,and adopts a new ideology, that goes agents the belief of the congregation
Mark Monk because if that was how our system worked, people would be able to just up and leave at anything that rattled their interpretation of the Bible. You think people wanted to stay knowing they could have a female pastor? People STILL think they get a choice in that matter (they don’t)- but guess what? The denomination fixed a previous error in biblical interpretation, and now we have female clergy.
This is no different. If you want to be a part of a denomination without a hierarchy, you could go to a non denominational church. I’m going to guess you don’t though- so you have to live with the rules (rules that can be changed through general conference. So, a petition could be raised next year to dismantle the trust clause if that is what enough people want- I don’t think they really do, and most Methodists aren’t going to leave no matter how the vote goes, they will just grumble)
J M thank you for your comment, I my self stood before my church and rejected the churches position on homosexuality and abortion and resigned my position as trustee , there are no nondenominational close ,there is one but they want to see a tax return to make sure you are giving your full tithing, I stay with the church because of the older members , they are great people feeling powerless , And you are rite there is No power in the hands of the people , it's sad what has happened ,but we have been told what would come to pass, If you don't like your job you leave it, you don't like a restaurant you don't eat at it, and those that have a problem should leave but they have no respect for the church so they seek to change it to what they want , this is the infection of New Age Progressive Liberal Ideology,
@@markmonk4310 This! It is sad that some are holding hostage of our older, senior or powerless people in the pews. I know people who's been a member for 5 generations and cannot leave just because of hijackers of wokeness social justice warriors came for a ruin.
@@JR-zw2vb I agree the reality is that progressive liberal Ideology and values are in complete opposition to fathers word and to accountability for their actions these are the mentally unstable with in our society in short progressive values are the values of the fallen 🙌☮🙏