For me, it was the buildup of the expectation of the role of Jarnathan in the parole scene, and then the quick reveal of Jarnathan’s actual role in the scene. This is exactly what would happen during a session. Poor NPC.
That would be awesome, but one of the actors (probably Rodriguez) should essentially play the same character but with a different name. Still a human barbarian with a similar backstory, but named Ulga Ingot instead. There's always one player who plays the same character in every campaign.
Oh that could be fun! Kind of like how Miracle Workers is the same cast w/ daniel radcliffe and such, being different characters/themes each season. (And yet... even there, I wish they'd just continued the storyline of that first season).
I see no one noticed my favorite Easter egg. The Bag of Holding. You see Simon wearing it but it's never mentioned by name. But you have multiple scenes where Edgin turns to Simon and says, "Hold this."
But Haley! Of course there was a good reason for Xenk not to continue on with the party! Their friend who was guesting in the campaign while he was in town had to go home!
My headcanon is that Xenk is a recurring, halfway-joke character this group use to solve problems in their games! He's always EXACTLY as OP as he needs to be for it to be funny!
And there’s the fact that this is a heist, and Xenk is Oath of Devotion, which he takes seriously. Not being allowed to lie or cheat would make him a liability on a heist. Also, he’ll have to fight a Red Wizard, and as he partially lost his soul, he’d be more at risk of falling under the control of the Beckoning Death. And it’s too much of a grudge match for his liking. And Xenk is a very trusting person, and rightfully so, so leaving the party to their own devices as soon as it’s clear that they’ll do what’s right in the end is in character for him.
I absolutely love the scene where Simon, even after listening to the DMPC explanation the bridge trap, just steps up an triggers it anyway. You can just FEEL the DM glaring daggers at the one Dumba$$ player.
We had a campaign where it seemed odd about a tower we were in that led one of us to stab it. The wall of the tower started to bleed. One of us, "I stab it again." We all died.
And it can be read as multiple ways. Simon got a nat 1. The player thought they understood it but didn't. The player wasn't even listening and just stepped on it. The player did everything right but there was a catch that the DM didn't remember to explain. The player actually just wanted to see what would happen if they stepped on it
Xenk absolutely felt like the DMPC that isn’t annoying, by not overriding the party’s autonomy, giving a lore dump, and being there when he’s needed, and not when him and the DM trust the party to get it done. And a paladin who isn’t this obnoxious, arrogant prick, but a likeable character who is loved by all (being centuries old gives one an reputation), except for Edgin, but even he warms up to Xenk.
SPOILER When the Dragon Statue came to life I leaned over to my friend and whispered "The spell is animate objects, so they only need to break her concentration" and then Doric threw the thing and it stopped and I had the biggest smile on my face, because I knew! I knew what was going to happen! And it did! Cause it was dnd! That was my favourite moment :)
I think why Regé-Jean Page didn't stay and help. Is because he wasn't asked to help. Which myself as a DM find hilarious because my party never ask for help when I'm shoving it right into there face. And my party will get the portal gun it's just so good.
I could swear I heard them give him an invite that he straight up turned down because they were stealing treasure from a Lord. He'll help them find the helm but he won't directly help the theft.
@@j.c.denton5193 Yeah, that. Also, he seemed like a traveler to me, and sticking with a party for a prolonged period seemed like it wasn't his thing? He seems like a lone wolf type to me, possibly in part because of how much he misunderstood certain phrases and things that the party used. Like, he doesn't fully understand social cues? So that might make it difficult for him to stick with them, too, even if they did directly ask.
Unless it’s a relatively passive effect (advantage on rolls, increased movement etc), I’ve remembered to use magic items’ abilities maybe twice, should be in my flaws section ngl
It was so much fun and my father who had the "Dnd players are weird basement dwellers" viewpoint, loved it. Like he understood why i like the game because the movie was relatable to general audiences. Also first thing I did after was ask my Dm "Can i have a tiny chonky dragon as a pet". Cause omg that dragon was the chonkiest boi and so cute.
For me the "abandoned" plot of the helm of disjunction was real-game-like where you make overcomplicated, multi step plans but in the end party ends up resolving the problem with some last minute, jackass idea 😅
Edge-ing the Bard does sound like a name a teenage D&D player would come up with. Ironically Sophia Lillis ‘Doric’ has said in interviews that she played a rogue in high school named Vi-boy Rater that could use harmonics to phase through walls…. Lol, so yeah it’s all very in kind with many folks D&D experience.
Three things: 1. The way I see Doric's wildshape, is that she focused on that ability to the exclusion of magic. The rigid leveling system is a game mechanic, and not reflective of limitations within the world. After all, NPCs and monsters don't typically have levels, they just have whatever ability makes sense. 2. The whole thing of going through all that trouble to get the helmet, only to wind up not using it and instead coming up with their rediculous heist plan...To me that was the most D&D moment in this entire movie. 3. The term McGuffin is massively misunderstood by people. None of those items are 'McGuffins', the same way the One Ring is not a McGuffin. Nothing that has any emotional or narrative importance beyond wanting it is a McGuffin. The Arc in 'Raiders of the Lost Arc', the bag of money in 'No Country for Old Men', the gold in 'The Itallian Job', and 'The Holy Grail' are all McGuffins because these things are never used to effect change nor do they have emotional meaning to the protagonists beyond "I want this thing".
thats an incredibly narrow definition of McGuffin and one that our culture disagrees with. Like dude the one ring is a macguffin. not by your weird personal defonitoon, but it is. Its a term that can be used to describe any sort of plot convenience thats an object, that the movie centers around. The one ring is so a fuckin macguffin.
@@yungoldman2823 It's not "my definition", it's Alfred Hitchcock's. The entire point of the concept is that it has no value or impact on the story aside from the desire of the characters to have it. I concede that colloquial language uses it differently, which is my entire point. Colloquial language often makes terms so broad as to be meaningless. And this definition basically means.."An object that exists in a story" which is the most useless definition for narrative purposes I can imagine. Just say object then.
My friend pointed out (or saw a comment somewhere) that said the paladin was very much just a dmpc. Only there for a bit, kinda op comparatively then dipped after that quest.
exactly, he showed up to explain lore and kill people, and then immediately walked over a rock and disappeared. the party forgot to deal with forge so he showed up to deal with it last second as a little offscreen thing. fantastic. beautiful. exactly how DMing feels when they leave plot threads untouched / not dealt with.
@@justlola417This felt like it was exactly it, they needed someone to make sure that nothing horrible happened when they got the magic hat, but the party couldn’t reliably take care of themselves yet, so let’s bring in… this guy! He agrees with your motivations but not your methods, to make sure it makes sense for him to help but not to join you; please don’t get attached to him, if he came with you the final encounter would be way easier and I have no way set up to fix that.
12:15 I read the paladin as a temporary dmnpc or player cameo character, so it felt right for there to be no reason for him to leave. I know my friend has been absorbed into TWO SEPARATE TTRPGS because he was supposed to play a minor villain/temporary character and then the players refused to let him go. The paladin's player was just better at saying "sorry I have work" and I LOVE THAT FOR HIM.
yeah I think it would be cool if more classes allowed some more focus and flexibility, maybe not for mechanical balance, but just the character fantasy. Maybe I wanna be ranger/hunter type (I'm talking generically in class based RPGs) that focuses on just being a badass archer. maybe I want to be more in touch with animal companions and nature, better at pathfinding and survival. Some classes like fighters and clerics can change their role and fantasy quite a bit and others like paladins feel more rigid. I like in WoW where a holy paladin is kinda like a DND cleric, a heavy armor healer, and retribution and protection fulfill offense and defense roles respectively. warlocks can supposedly draw their powers from a bunch of different deities and creatures, not just demons and devils, but if you make a pact with a fae or holy being, how do you feel any different from a demon pact warlock if all of you just shoot the same eldritch bolts?
I think the biggest revelation for me as a GM was using the actual act of attunement as an opportunity to journey into the mind. They used it for a conversation but you could make that spotlight anything you want. Like, you could have a whole adventure inside that world. Way cooler than the sort of check mark it typically is in games.
while I absolutely agree that some of the choices were to appeal to a broader audience, a large amount of the nitpicks with mechanics in the movie aren't actually nitpicks if you look at it as a homebrew heavy 3.5 campaign. You could take a feat multiple times to get more wildshapes as a druid, and if you wanted you could even focus into wildshaping at the expense of spell casting. Attuning to an item above your level took a check, and failure meant you couldn't try until a long rest (I think, it's been a while since I've played older editions). I don't actually think the red wizards were a big thing in 5e, but they definitely were in 3.5.
Also! If they made a sequel, I desperately want the same cast playing completely different characters, but cameos from the original characters throughout the film. I know it would likely not go over well in the broad sense, but it would be the best not fourth wall breaking fourth wall break.
I loved the chemistry between Pine and Rodreguez too. The fact that she was more into taking care of his daughter than attracted to him... then we find out why, and it's amazing.
Love this! My personal headcanon is that the theoretical player learned to get out of their own way and believe in themselves through playing Simon. Simon seems like a character that a player used to explore their own personal growth in a safe environment. So yeah, he wasn't too exciting on-screen, but just wait for that player's next character!
I just got home from seeing it and the practical effects were my FAVOURITE. It really emphasised how only 5% of the Guardians trailer in the previews was probably real lol. I loved how the portal wand was just a Thing the barbarian had. I think we all know a barbarian who didn't hand something over to be identified because they thought it was a useless item 😆
Well I kind of see the “Fun with Portals” staff an a way for the DM to to help the players get the THING because that one dumba$$ player set off the bridge trap. Even after they explained in game how to solve it because the party was stuck for 2 hours trying to figure it out.
@@targetdreamer257 that was my EXACT thought. like "wow crap okay. um. hey holga where are you keeping that walking staff? strap on your bag? great. simon, give me an arcana check since you're just, y'know, in the area."
Not my first time playing a game I was given a random vile of orange glowing thingie and I didn’t understand so I just put it into my day bag… turns out it was wild magic we desperately needed at one point
@@xxmephxx Simon :I rolled a 6 DM: ffs...yeah...so you somehow know that this staff is a hither thither staff. Simon: but I rolled... DM: YOU JUST KNOW, Simon.
Why do bards and barbarians always get along in these things, think about it; Dimension 20: Gorgug and Fig end up being bandmates and best friends. Critical Role: Scanlan and Grog are brothers from other mothers, this movie Ed and Holga are basically Kate and Allie (if you don't know what that is, it's a tv show about two divorced women who decide to create a blended family with each other figuring it would be easier and cheaper to raise their kids together instead of on their own. It was made in the 80s and starred Susan St. James and Jane Curtin). I have a hypothesis, barbarians and bards are generally the most hedonistic characters, and their love of life's pleasures creates a bond between them.
I was gonna protest, but then I remembered my changeling bard's best friend was a kobold barbarian. Barbarian was really out there living his best life and teaching my bard to enjoy his newfound freedom. The most heartwarming moment that happened between them was when a group of doppelgangers called my bard a half breed, and the barbarian was ready to throw his tiny hands over it. Expanding on your comment, I think what people like about the peanut butter-n-chocolate combo that is bard and barbarian is that they have enough in common to get along, while having enough in contrast to cover each other weaknesses in a conflict. I have put my changeling bard in harm's way so many times in combat to give our kobold barbarian his pack tactics, and the barbarian has foiled a couple kidnapping attempts on my bard just to show the baddies they came to the wrong neighborhood.
Bards are spellcasters who pride themselves in being good at everything, but refuse to be the best at anything. Barbs are martials who pride themselves in both hitting really hard and taking a lot of abuse. Kinda works out.
The Hither Thither Staff felt like Simon's player rolled a Nat 1 and then the DM had to fix something and then the players kept using it in ways the DM didn't expect.
If you have a problem with the name Edgin Darvis, then whoo boy, don't ever watch Brennan Lee Mulligan's player characters 😂 "Evan Kelmp" and "Abraham Merhermblur" come to mind... And this is D&D: tragic backstories are required. No, no, I'm serious. My current character had a perfectly happy life and family, and my DM's first reaction when I gave him my backstory was, "Oh, don't worry, I'll fix that." Within like three sessions, his father was zombified and then killed by a party member, and his mother was kidnapped by human supremacists. If you don't make your character with a tragic backstory, the DM will do it for you 😂
for someone how has never played a single dnd game i loved this movie. it was easy to understand for me. i was used to other fantasy series and movies. so i had some familiarity with shapeshifters, giants, dragons, mimics (those fake chest things). i felt like i didnt miss any major important parts. even though i didnt understand everything i still enjoyed it. will definitely watch more dnd stuff.
I do wish they had taken the easy layup of queer representation by giving Holga an estranged WIFE instead of husband. Michelle Rodriguez is bi, after all.
i think it would've been nice, but i also prefer when rep matters to the plot. the bradley cooper cameo was only there to be funny and add a little depth to holga. i don't know if a gay relationship existing to be funny and then not mattering whatsoever would've added anything, in the way that "nods" to gay existence in movies such as Disney don't add anything. that said, it still could've been cool. idk i guess i could go either way.
I actually liked that it was a guy, just to hammer it in, that yes we have these two characters, Holga and Edgin, who have both been in what could be read as hetero relationships but are not at all attracted to each other. And they stay like that!
@@_oaktree_ to add to that, she could still be a bi barbarian and be pining after a male halfling. Bi people don't have to wear their attraction to the same sex on their sleeve.
My thought on the paladin who absolutely is the best character: He is the DM's character from a previous campaign. The DM has to bring him in to help out, be super awesome, help the party with their issues, but ultimately he can't like... stay ya know, he's not a player, but he has to be doing his thing elsewhere the DM's not going to do something terrible to him to keep him from participating so he just is like "You've got this" and leaves. I think this movie is just SO genuinely good because it knows what it is, it knows who it's for, and it isn't trying to be perfect. They knew when they were making it that the druid shouldn't have that many wildshapes. They knew the hand spells don't... exactly do that. But they know how to make a scene fun, and enjoyable, while still following the correct STRUCTURE, and that's fantastic. Like Haley said, I can see a player saying "Hey I want my druid to be able to wildshape as many times as they want." "Okay but if they do that she's not gonna have any other magic, that's going to be her main thing, are you okay with that?" "Can I turn into an owlbear?" "Ye-" "Absolutely." The biggest flaws in my book were the lack of LGBT representation, I know it's for general popularity but this is the year of our lord 2023 and I am TIRED, and no handsome nearly seven foot tall half orc I can headcanon as my personal boyfriend. Tragic. One incredibly minute thing I don't thing the fight scenes get enough credit for either is the choreography. Like... can we take a second to appreciate how EVERYBODY IS FIGHTING TOGETHER? Like it's not just "Oh Simon and Serafina are fighting each other because they're the ones who do the magicy thing and everyone else is standing around going, 'You can do it, Simon!'" like Simon's attacking her with a spell, Olga's throwing knives, the druid even in humanoid form is like swinging her around, the bard's going at her with a sword, none of the characters are idle during fight scenes and that is SO RARE in fantasy movies like this and I LOVE IT SO MUCH. Also some people complained about the portal staff being too convenient and I'm just like, yes? Was that not intentional? Like, have we all not had a moment where the party has somehow unfixably flubbed the one thing they were supposed to use to get through a puzzle or area and to keep things rolling we've been like "Oh but uh you happen to discover the staff is actuaaaalllyyyyyy...." and then immediately regret it because now we have to deal with the fact that our players... NOW HAVE THAT ITEM OH MY GOD WHAT HAVE I DONE but like GOOD DMs we don't just go "And you immediately lose it!" no. We are good DMs, we improvise. We let the players keep the stupidly powerful item we gave them without thinking. We are here to make sure our players have fun and damnit we will MAKE. IT. WORK. We give them challenges, ways they have to use it creatively. Oh no, the painting is face down, what do you do about that?
Really liked your review. Totally with you on the Bradley Cooper scene. Loved the idea. It.was perfectly strange and heartfelt but the.optics looked so bad. Worse yet, because weve all seen halflings done so much better. Also, yes the.paladin walking Over the rock? Priceless. Best joke in the film
@@queenannsrevenge100I thought I heard that it was actually done last minute since Bradley Cooper couldn’t fit it into his schedule or something like that, since the other halfling at the end of the movie didn’t look nearly as bad at least in my opinion
The "straight over the rock" joke was improv? Oh, thank you, Cosmos! Also, I was *this* close to openly sobbing over Edgin choosing to bring back Helga and the "M Night Shyamalan'ed " flashbacks to show me "you totally missed that she's her MOM!"
Nah, Xank was obviously the DMPC/NPC that was there to guide the players on a quest, then the PCs got annoyed at the DM for bringing in an NPC who was obviously much higher level than the rest of the party, making the players feel like they aren't important.
I thought that Edgin was a rogue and that's why he didn't cast magic, like he just liked his lute but to me he definitely seemed more like a rogue than a bard
I really like your point about how all the main characters are basically pure human for the marketing and initial launch of this IP. To reach more people. People gotta consider more stuff like you did. 👌
On the topic of forgetting to roll dice, I once introduced a creature that looked different to everyone who saw it, looked like everyone's favourite animal, and for ten whole minutes, all the party could do was argue about it. Like, I just sat their laughing so hard with tears in my eyes because it was peak hilarity for some reason, and like, fictional creature, fictional beings, but the party were So Invested in fighting about it... no matter what else they tried discussing, it always came back to The Creature. I don't think anyone even attempted an investigation check, so it just... was.
Honestly, I loved it for its storytelling. It understood that a small, personal story is more engaging than a large, impersonal story. And in DnD, any good DM knows that the best story is a personal one. Yes, the party is of people who will immediately dive into combat to stop a fanatical follower of Szass Tam from creating an army of the dead, but a save-the-world story is routine, there’s little personal. You just show up, beat up some baddie who probably has no clue who you are, and leave, having saved a bunch of complete strangers. But they made sure to make it personal with the party. For Edgin, it was about rekindling his bond with his daughter, getting back on the man who betrayed him, and processing his grief for his wife in a healthy manner. For Holga, it’s about getting the child she took under her wing back, and getting closure on a past romance with a man who she’s better off as a friend to. For Simon, it’s about conquering his self-doubt, so he can be more than a so-so sorcerer whose self-doubt cuts into the well of charisma he draws his magic from. For Doric, it’s about her protecting her found family, and learning to trust humans, even though she joined the table later on, her character arc feels incomplete. And for DMPC Xenk, it’s about making sure what happened to his people and family doesn’t happen again. If they never got to grow, if they never got to face someone who wronged them in the past, if there was no personal business, it would not work. A DnD campaign always must be personal for all party members, and it gets that right!
For your consideration: I think Sofina is doing bits all throughout the movie, she just doesn’t need anyone to think they’re funny but her. Revealing a wildshape by pointing and screaming, jumpscaring both Dorick and us? Funny. Revealing she has disguised herself as Edgin’s daughter by laughing in his face? Funny. Having her fifth level Bigby’s Hand engage in a hand wrestle with the sorcerer’s second level Earthen Grasp rather than just counterspelling it outright? Funny. I love this evil wizard, her flair, and her weird sense of humor
I actually love the fact that Doric DOESNT get character development, because it’s just so dnd. Like, she is that one player that absolutely loves progressing the plot forward constantly and never stopping for character moments, and I love that for her
I loved it. Bit gutted that the film itself kinda fell off people's cinema schedules in the second week - so I'm hoping it recovers the box office gap in paid-for home viewing etc.
In my superheroes game, one of my PC's literally has a portal gun as his super power. I have regretted the decision to allow that almost every session.
Before my first ever campaign and first time being DM, one of the party members asked if he could be an artificer who could replicate 1 magical item per day. This would let him put a bag of holding within another bag of holding, creating a black hole with no rolls to one-shot enemies. Very glad I didn't let him do that.
You failed to mention that quite often DMs have to 'fix' party 'errors' that destroy their plans for the plot of the adventure so having 'convenient' items does happen at the table.
I absolutely loved the movie, the speak with dead scene is so great! I'm in the middle of whether or not they could have had more variety in the cast, I feel like Guardians of the Galaxy shows you can put your big name actors in makeup and Pine is a much bigger name than Pratt. Idk still think the party fit a party of first time players though.
My sister and I got into SUCH an argument on the way home from this movie about whether or not Ed was a bard or rogue! I thought he started as a rogue, wife died, he tried to become a bard to forget his past, and THATS why he couldn't cast spells--because he was NEVER a real Bard. My sister argued that he was a Bard, but his magic was invisible--like when he gives a speech to the crew before the heist, he was giving them bardic inspiration, we just didn't see it because it would be confusing to a non-dnd audience.
Re: the unlimited Druid Wildshapes WotC has long been looking to change how wildshape works and in one of the earliest UAs for the new corebook rework they did make it so higher-level druids could switch forms an unlimited amount of times within a certain timespan. Sadly that version of the druid also made the all animal shapes one of 3 **really** underpowered templates(that all just used your own HP) so the community were very unhappy with that druid. WotC promply dropped the golden nugget of infinite form switching real fast...
i wonder if they could make it like "you can change wildshape infinite amount of time, on the condition that the forms' HPs accumutively count up to (whatever the agreed amount is)" so you can change into a cat with 5HP for 6 times under an hour, but you can't do that 7 times cuz we cap at 30HP
I actually loved this film so much more than I thought I would! Everything just lined up to make a really fun, cute and surprisingly heartfelt film. I thought Michelle Rodriguez was so good as Holga. And Chris Pine of course is charismatic in everything.
If they want to expand this universe on film and TV, having the different characters in this movie making occasional cameos early on would probably be a good way to go about it. I suspect the setting of Neverwinter could function as a hub for quite a few adventures, introducing other characters that could make cameos later on in other movies and TV-series and so on. Something fun they could also do is to do a Pratchett, and have a recurring fun character like Cohen the Barbarian as the universe expands - that would be a ton of fun.
I enjoyed this movie so much, as someone who plays a lot of the modules with their groups (currently in a Waterdeep: Dragon Heist, Wild Beyond the Witchlight and Spelljammer campaign + having finished Rime of the Frostmaiden) I was so excited to see the Sword Coast on the big screen and point at places and names and characters and go: "I've been there! I know where/who that is!" And I LOVED Xenk so much, I could feel the DM behind that character, I could imagine one of my DMs playing a character like that who takes things too literal. It was so so good, I adored the practical effects and the party had such nice chemistry, it was just so awesome
I watched this with my nephew that I'm trying to get into dnd, and was exactly telling him about all the things you're referencing....the bad ideas, the good rolls, the terrible rolls, which one is which class.....I think he's in. This movie is watching someone's campaign. Shouldn't be possible, they did it.
I went to see it with my friends, the dnd group, I really enjoyed the film, some of my friends thought it would be better if the story was treated as an actual campaign, like it would cut to a group playing through the scenarios and rolling dice etc, I'm so glad they didn't do that although I was thinking it would be fun if there was an after credits scene where it's the cast playing themselves playing a game of dnd but as it was I still loved it, burst out laughing a lot, thankfully it was just us in the cinema, it was exactly what I wanted out of a dnd movie
I remember one thing I went absolutely wild about was the sending stones. I mean, after listening to arc 2 of uc and you guys using the stones as phones it both just made sense that they were used as ear pieces in the movie and was very exiting to see on the big screen. My personal favorite instance of "rule of cool" in the movie :)
@@Thndrcougrfalcnbrd That's cool, I got a cup and tub from Regal but it's not the same. Hah. I do miss the times when movies will give free promotional materials.
I somehow found this channel through the Shrek video, so to hear you describe yourself as a D&D Content Creator is so unexpectedly HYPE! Spoilers, I WILL be bingeing your whole channel over the coming weeks, probably out of order, so expect to see my comments sprout wildly about the place. See y'all there! ;)
Every good DM knows how and when to bend the rules and let there players do wildly improbable but very cool things. this movie was no different and i love it
I feel like he’s the character who constantly gets bad rolls, so they write it as his doubt in his ability hampering his charisma, which is what sorcerers use to cast spells. Until he gets good rolls, usually under pressure.
Spot on. Agree on so, so many points. If I had anything to pick about the movie or your review of it, it was nits (damn those nits). What I do have issues with are the channels who are hating on the flick over those aforementioned pesky nits. Nobody should be complaining about getting to see an Owlbear onscreen in their lifetime. Awesome review, well done! Liked and subscribed.
I just _know_ that the portal painting gambit was something that the DM didn't account for and that's why the duid is unceremoniously KOed to course-correct
Forge did NOT order them killed... He specifically ordered his men to take them back to prison when there was no one there that he world be trying to deceive. The Wizard ordered them to have them killed. Also, Doric looked just like some of the 2nd edition Tieflings from the Planescape book... I cannot believe that you did not mention Themberchaud... My favorite Red Dragon of all time... Actually my favorite Dragon of all time, with the possible exception of Vermithrax Pejorative from "Dragonslayer" (1981), which, if you have not seen it, is DEFINATALLY worth a watch! Haver you ever read this? Themberchaud's lament "And now I am far too large to ever leave. Even if I tore the entire place down around me, I could not claw my way to the surface from here. Instead, I remain buried in a prison of my parents' making, far beneath a sky I've never seen." I never thought I would feel sorry for a Red Dragon... Look up his back story some time and you will see what I mean... I was so angry when I thought they had killed him off, but thankfully they left him alive in the end.
One of my favorite headcannons is that Xenc's player just left mid campaign and left the DM scrambling to find an excuse. Has happened to parties I have been in, its lretty accurate.
Great review... My one question tho... Was Edgin a bard, or actually a rogue with a lute? Hmmm.... Also, I don't think the point of the Helm was to get past the magical door. It was for Simon gain his confidence, which he needed for the final battle.
I stumbled over this video while trying to rationalize my love for Honor Among Thieves and well well well if this isn’t one of the best criticisms and breakdowns ever! Loved and agreed with every shrewd point!
The higher thither staff scene made me go, they were supposed to solve that puzzle and someone immediately got something majorly wrong and rolled a nat one. This led to the dungeon master having to come up with an on the fly way to get them across a chasm in which no one had fly etc.
My head cannon is that the straight line that Xenk walked when he left, is the same straight line he was walking when he showed back up at the end. He started walking and didn't stop he knew exactly where to go
I really read Doric and Simon as characters for people who it was their first time playing. So all the backstories are pretty simple and the heavier story moments are handled by the more experienced players (Edgin and Holga) But yeah. If they make another D&D movie I hope they have permission to go crazy
i will say in d&d canon most tie flings do have human skin tones and just look like people with horns and a tail. but when people have the option to make their character a fun colour they almost always take it so we just assume tieflings should always be colourful but it does work in canon
Other than Doric's slingshot most of her action was through her wildshape stuff and being part of heist sequences. So as a character she contributed a lot but the actor didn't get much of a chance beyond reacting to what others said, I felt. If there's a sequel I hope she gets more of a chance to do stuff. There was still a lot going on so it didn't bother me too much. They could have kept Simon prime magic person and maybe had her do a goodberry for a quiet moment or something, talk to trees. Something obvioously within the nature trope, but it's fine. Wildshape was her thing. I guess you could justify this as some sort of alternate Druid where wildshape was emphasized at the expense of spellcasting? There were a lot of little touches in the movie that made me very happy, screenwriting stuff that I began to suspect people forgot how to do, they did. Happy I saw it. I'll let it rest and watch it again to see how much replay value I can get out of it. The panic NPC name joke never gets old :)
Tieflings do not have to be big red and horny. Their lower planes heritage can show up in as minor way as tiny norns or inhuman eyes, or as extreme as their entire face bing covered in eyes.
Someone, whom I'm convinced didn't see the movie, complained that the characters were flat, the dialogue sucked, the plot was boring, and they relied on terrible CGI. I corrected him saying he was objectively wrong about one thing, most of the special effects were practical. He said, "I'm glad you enjoyed the movie, I didn't." I literally gave no opinion on the movie (I really enjoyed it; I was smiling throughout, and that's exactly what I wanted from it, but I didn't give my opinion. I only stated the fact that most of the effects were animatronic, makeup, forced perspective, etc. When I say objective, I mean in absence of mind. You need to use your mind to say the characters were flat or the plot was boring, but it's a hard fact that animatronics were used far more than CGI.
Xenk is not DMNPC, he's DM's best friend who's always too busy to play, so when they got him for a few sessions he was made an OP paladin with backstory directly connected to the plot :D
The hilarious thing is that Doric's wild shapes actually make sense if you take 5 minutes to read the PHB. She turns into an owlbear, so clearly she has polymorph prepared. Even assuming she DOESN'T have 7 uses of wild shape (2+a wisdom modifier of 5 from a score of 20 is 7) she could still make up the remainder with 2 polymorphs, minimum. Doric's wild shapes aren't a problem, people just love a problem
@@motomoto8019 yeah, but Mastermind Rogues can’t cast spells, and can give their Allies advantage on rolls as a bonus action, which would look very similar to bardic inspiration
*still spoiler free but does discuss the movie more closely than the spoiler free review in the video* I liked Simon a lot for the really amateurish vibe he brought to the group. He's one of the youngest members (maybe younger than Doric?) and still can't fully control his magic- which makes sense because he's a Wild Magic Sorcerer. I wish he'd had a little bit more to do in the second act; same with Doric. My players and I also watched together and were immediately obsessed with Xenk, to the point that he's been (forcibly) incorporated into one of our campaigns. That's how cool and fun he was. Personally, I saw him as a NPC who showed up, delivered exposition, showed them how to get somewhere, and then left because the DM needed the party to actually get their crap together and solve the problem. The expression on his face when Simon did the Thing with the stones? Fantastic. Pure DM disappoint. Exactly how I feel when my players pull some shit and now I have to fix it- perhaps even with a sudden Item !!!! I agree that some more character bonding moments would've been nice, especially for Doric. She has the least to do with dynamics and I think incorporating her a tiny bit more a tiny bit earlier (second act?) would've helped. 10/10 best movie ive seen in a while.
You should watch the 2000 movie, if only to watch Jeremy Irons' over the top performance that is so bad that it's actually so good. I agree this movie was good, pretty fun. Too bad it is being measured mostly by its box office returns, which were not good. A lot of the Easter eggs were spoiled in the trailers because Hollywood doesn't know how to make effective trailers.
“But wait! We approved your pardon!” Is like. A perfect joke
Absolutely.
And the fact that you could see it coming as they executed the most insane plan ever.
@@PredatorH2O Which is exactly what would happen in an actual d&d campaign.
When the party starts planning before asking the DM or NPCs for all the actual details...
For me, it was the buildup of the expectation of the role of Jarnathan in the parole scene, and then the quick reveal of Jarnathan’s actual role in the scene. This is exactly what would happen during a session. Poor NPC.
I think if there is a sequel, it needs to be the exact same cast. But different characters
That crossed my mind too. Maybe even in a different setting.
That would be awesome, but one of the actors (probably Rodriguez) should essentially play the same character but with a different name. Still a human barbarian with a similar backstory, but named Ulga Ingot instead. There's always one player who plays the same character in every campaign.
That is such a good idea. Switch up the roles too. Michelle Rodriguez would make a great big bad.
Oh that could be fun! Kind of like how Miracle Workers is the same cast w/ daniel radcliffe and such, being different characters/themes each season. (And yet... even there, I wish they'd just continued the storyline of that first season).
I was hoping to see the actors playing the players controlling the characters in the movie in a post scene
I see no one noticed my favorite Easter egg. The Bag of Holding. You see Simon wearing it but it's never mentioned by name. But you have multiple scenes where Edgin turns to Simon and says, "Hold this."
OMG I NEVER CAUGHT THAT
But Haley! Of course there was a good reason for Xenk not to continue on with the party! Their friend who was guesting in the campaign while he was in town had to go home!
I was actually thinking he felt like a DM NPC, because the DM realized the quest to get the mcGuffin was a bit too high level for the party.
@@edwino6655 MAJOR DMPC ENERGY
My headcanon is that Xenk is a recurring, halfway-joke character this group use to solve problems in their games! He's always EXACTLY as OP as he needs to be for it to be funny!
And there’s the fact that this is a heist, and Xenk is Oath of Devotion, which he takes seriously. Not being allowed to lie or cheat would make him a liability on a heist. Also, he’ll have to fight a Red Wizard, and as he partially lost his soul, he’d be more at risk of falling under the control of the Beckoning Death. And it’s too much of a grudge match for his liking. And Xenk is a very trusting person, and rightfully so, so leaving the party to their own devices as soon as it’s clear that they’ll do what’s right in the end is in character for him.
My buddy said "Xenk definetly fit the idea of "the guy who is only a guest for one session so his character is super OP"
I absolutely love the scene where Simon, even after listening to the DMPC explanation the bridge trap, just steps up an triggers it anyway.
You can just FEEL the DM glaring daggers at the one Dumba$$ player.
We had a campaign where it seemed odd about a tower we were in that led one of us to stab it.
The wall of the tower started to bleed.
One of us, "I stab it again."
We all died.
@@michaelkaufhold3126excellent 😭
And it can be read as multiple ways. Simon got a nat 1. The player thought they understood it but didn't. The player wasn't even listening and just stepped on it. The player did everything right but there was a catch that the DM didn't remember to explain. The player actually just wanted to see what would happen if they stepped on it
Followed by the portal gun and the “I did good!” it may well be my favorite moment in cinema!
Xenk absolutely felt like the DMPC that isn’t annoying, by not overriding the party’s autonomy, giving a lore dump, and being there when he’s needed, and not when him and the DM trust the party to get it done. And a paladin who isn’t this obnoxious, arrogant prick, but a likeable character who is loved by all (being centuries old gives one an reputation), except for Edgin, but even he warms up to Xenk.
SPOILER
When the Dragon Statue came to life I leaned over to my friend and whispered "The spell is animate objects, so they only need to break her concentration" and then Doric threw the thing and it stopped and I had the biggest smile on my face, because I knew! I knew what was going to happen! And it did! Cause it was dnd! That was my favourite moment :)
I think why Regé-Jean Page didn't stay and help. Is because he wasn't asked to help. Which myself as a DM find hilarious because my party never ask for help when I'm shoving it right into there face. And my party will get the portal gun it's just so good.
I think Xenk is gay....I spotted Page doing the arrogant gay swish in the village scene after he rescued the Tabaxi kitten from the fish.
He's totally the annoying DMPC who shows up for one session, does all the work, and then fucks off never to be seen again
I could swear I heard them give him an invite that he straight up turned down because they were stealing treasure from a Lord. He'll help them find the helm but he won't directly help the theft.
@@j.c.denton5193 Yeah, that. Also, he seemed like a traveler to me, and sticking with a party for a prolonged period seemed like it wasn't his thing? He seems like a lone wolf type to me, possibly in part because of how much he misunderstood certain phrases and things that the party used. Like, he doesn't fully understand social cues? So that might make it difficult for him to stick with them, too, even if they did directly ask.
This movie really reaffirmed how much I love practical effects and costumes
Seriously the full sized Muppet characters were amazing. I miss seeing that.
@@gregwillson7952 it almost feels easier to suspend disbelief with a practical character than it is with better looking CG effects.
I think we all know, in our hearts, Edgin is a mastermind rogue with proficiency with a lute.
The magic item getting completely forgot about in the third act is SO d&d 🤣🤣🤣
Literally my party with every Curse of Strahd item except for the Gulthias Staff and the Sunsword.
Unless it’s a relatively passive effect (advantage on rolls, increased movement etc), I’ve remembered to use magic items’ abilities maybe twice, should be in my flaws section ngl
It was so much fun and my father who had the "Dnd players are weird basement dwellers" viewpoint, loved it. Like he understood why i like the game because the movie was relatable to general audiences. Also first thing I did after was ask my Dm "Can i have a tiny chonky dragon as a pet". Cause omg that dragon was the chonkiest boi and so cute.
For me the "abandoned" plot of the helm of disjunction was real-game-like where you make overcomplicated, multi step plans but in the end party ends up resolving the problem with some last minute, jackass idea 😅
"I know in my heart, Edgin has, like, 6 hit points."
😂
A person in the party w just an awful name to actually say is SO dnd
Edgin Darvis is borderline Evan Kelmp and that's why it's perfect
@@AkodoRokku REAL
Edge-ing the Bard does sound like a name a teenage D&D player would come up with. Ironically Sophia Lillis ‘Doric’ has said in interviews that she played a rogue in high school named Vi-boy Rater that could use harmonics to phase through walls…. Lol, so yeah it’s all very in kind with many folks D&D experience.
I recently played a Leonin and decided to make his name a series of cat noises. Never stopped being funny
@@gregwillson7952 do you mean saying "meow meow" as words or literally meowing and growling? im invested.
Three things:
1. The way I see Doric's wildshape, is that she focused on that ability to the exclusion of magic. The rigid leveling system is a game mechanic, and not reflective of limitations within the world. After all, NPCs and monsters don't typically have levels, they just have whatever ability makes sense.
2. The whole thing of going through all that trouble to get the helmet, only to wind up not using it and instead coming up with their rediculous heist plan...To me that was the most D&D moment in this entire movie.
3. The term McGuffin is massively misunderstood by people. None of those items are 'McGuffins', the same way the One Ring is not a McGuffin. Nothing that has any emotional or narrative importance beyond wanting it is a McGuffin. The Arc in 'Raiders of the Lost Arc', the bag of money in 'No Country for Old Men', the gold in 'The Itallian Job', and 'The Holy Grail' are all McGuffins because these things are never used to effect change nor do they have emotional meaning to the protagonists beyond "I want this thing".
thats an incredibly narrow definition of McGuffin and one that our culture disagrees with. Like dude the one ring is a macguffin. not by your weird personal defonitoon, but it is. Its a term that can be used to describe any sort of plot convenience thats an object, that the movie centers around.
The one ring is so a fuckin macguffin.
@@yungoldman2823 It's not "my definition", it's Alfred Hitchcock's. The entire point of the concept is that it has no value or impact on the story aside from the desire of the characters to have it.
I concede that colloquial language uses it differently, which is my entire point. Colloquial language often makes terms so broad as to be meaningless. And this definition basically means.."An object that exists in a story" which is the most useless definition for narrative purposes I can imagine. Just say object then.
@@yungoldman2823 language evolves, doesn't mean I have to agree with it.
@@FulcanMal As the expression goes... Definitions matter...
Didn't the Arc melt the Nazis at the end? Argument could be it technically made Indie irrelevant, but I'm not sure. But it did do a thing.
My friend pointed out (or saw a comment somewhere) that said the paladin was very much just a dmpc. Only there for a bit, kinda op comparatively then dipped after that quest.
exactly, he showed up to explain lore and kill people, and then immediately walked over a rock and disappeared. the party forgot to deal with forge so he showed up to deal with it last second as a little offscreen thing. fantastic. beautiful. exactly how DMing feels when they leave plot threads untouched / not dealt with.
For me he was a dmpc for when the DM realised the party was waaay underleveled for what they had prepared, and didn't want the players to all die lol
@@justlola417This felt like it was exactly it, they needed someone to make sure that nothing horrible happened when they got the magic hat, but the party couldn’t reliably take care of themselves yet, so let’s bring in… this guy! He agrees with your motivations but not your methods, to make sure it makes sense for him to help but not to join you; please don’t get attached to him, if he came with you the final encounter would be way easier and I have no way set up to fix that.
12:15 I read the paladin as a temporary dmnpc or player cameo character, so it felt right for there to be no reason for him to leave. I know my friend has been absorbed into TWO SEPARATE TTRPGS because he was supposed to play a minor villain/temporary character and then the players refused to let him go. The paladin's player was just better at saying "sorry I have work" and I LOVE THAT FOR HIM.
I think a mechanic of giving up spellcasting to go ham into wildshapes would be objectively really cool
You can use all the spellslots for turning into animals in pathfinder 2e.
@@julzbehr6696 you kinda can in 5e too (except the lower level ones), polymorph is a druid spell
@@ronben-ezer8373 thanks didn’t know that (my experience with dnd is a bit limited and I have never played a Druid)
yeah I think it would be cool if more classes allowed some more focus and flexibility, maybe not for mechanical balance, but just the character fantasy. Maybe I wanna be ranger/hunter type (I'm talking generically in class based RPGs) that focuses on just being a badass archer. maybe I want to be more in touch with animal companions and nature, better at pathfinding and survival. Some classes like fighters and clerics can change their role and fantasy quite a bit and others like paladins feel more rigid. I like in WoW where a holy paladin is kinda like a DND cleric, a heavy armor healer, and retribution and protection fulfill offense and defense roles respectively. warlocks can supposedly draw their powers from a bunch of different deities and creatures, not just demons and devils, but if you make a pact with a fae or holy being, how do you feel any different from a demon pact warlock if all of you just shoot the same eldritch bolts?
Doric feels like a moon Druid, or that she got up to Lv 20, for unlimited wild shape.
I think the biggest revelation for me as a GM was using the actual act of attunement as an opportunity to journey into the mind. They used it for a conversation but you could make that spotlight anything you want. Like, you could have a whole adventure inside that world. Way cooler than the sort of check mark it typically is in games.
while I absolutely agree that some of the choices were to appeal to a broader audience, a large amount of the nitpicks with mechanics in the movie aren't actually nitpicks if you look at it as a homebrew heavy 3.5 campaign. You could take a feat multiple times to get more wildshapes as a druid, and if you wanted you could even focus into wildshaping at the expense of spell casting. Attuning to an item above your level took a check, and failure meant you couldn't try until a long rest (I think, it's been a while since I've played older editions). I don't actually think the red wizards were a big thing in 5e, but they definitely were in 3.5.
Also! If they made a sequel, I desperately want the same cast playing completely different characters, but cameos from the original characters throughout the film. I know it would likely not go over well in the broad sense, but it would be the best not fourth wall breaking fourth wall break.
It never occurred to me it might be an edition thing! That's awesome and I love it
Honestly I so expected the Harper backstory to be a lie that it threw me for a loop when it *wasnt* and I love that
Yeah, Edgin stole because he wasn’t getting paid.
I loved the chemistry between Pine and Rodreguez too. The fact that she was more into taking care of his daughter than attracted to him... then we find out why, and it's amazing.
Honestly, I love that they show that Edgin and Holga are more brother and sister in all but blood than anything else.
Love this!
My personal headcanon is that the theoretical player learned to get out of their own way and believe in themselves through playing Simon.
Simon seems like a character that a player used to explore their own personal growth in a safe environment.
So yeah, he wasn't too exciting on-screen, but just wait for that player's next character!
I just got home from seeing it and the practical effects were my FAVOURITE. It really emphasised how only 5% of the Guardians trailer in the previews was probably real lol.
I loved how the portal wand was just a Thing the barbarian had. I think we all know a barbarian who didn't hand something over to be identified because they thought it was a useless item 😆
Well I kind of see the “Fun with Portals” staff an a way for the DM to to help the players get the THING because that one dumba$$ player set off the bridge trap. Even after they explained in game how to solve it because the party was stuck for 2 hours trying to figure it out.
@@targetdreamer257 that was my EXACT thought. like "wow crap okay. um. hey holga where are you keeping that walking staff? strap on your bag? great. simon, give me an arcana check since you're just, y'know, in the area."
Not my first time playing a game I was given a random vile of orange glowing thingie and I didn’t understand so I just put it into my day bag… turns out it was wild magic we desperately needed at one point
@@xxmephxx
Simon :I rolled a 6
DM: ffs...yeah...so you somehow know that this staff is a hither thither staff.
Simon: but I rolled...
DM: YOU JUST KNOW, Simon.
D&D Beyond did indeed release stats for the Hither Thither Staff, among other things, free to add to your account.
Why do bards and barbarians always get along in these things, think about it; Dimension 20: Gorgug and Fig end up being bandmates and best friends. Critical Role: Scanlan and Grog are brothers from other mothers, this movie Ed and Holga are basically Kate and Allie (if you don't know what that is, it's a tv show about two divorced women who decide to create a blended family with each other figuring it would be easier and cheaper to raise their kids together instead of on their own. It was made in the 80s and starred Susan St. James and Jane Curtin). I have a hypothesis, barbarians and bards are generally the most hedonistic characters, and their love of life's pleasures creates a bond between them.
Shoutout for the Kate and Allie callback. 👍
I was gonna protest, but then I remembered my changeling bard's best friend was a kobold barbarian. Barbarian was really out there living his best life and teaching my bard to enjoy his newfound freedom. The most heartwarming moment that happened between them was when a group of doppelgangers called my bard a half breed, and the barbarian was ready to throw his tiny hands over it.
Expanding on your comment, I think what people like about the peanut butter-n-chocolate combo that is bard and barbarian is that they have enough in common to get along, while having enough in contrast to cover each other weaknesses in a conflict. I have put my changeling bard in harm's way so many times in combat to give our kobold barbarian his pack tactics, and the barbarian has foiled a couple kidnapping attempts on my bard just to show the baddies they came to the wrong neighborhood.
Bards are spellcasters who pride themselves in being good at everything, but refuse to be the best at anything. Barbs are martials who pride themselves in both hitting really hard and taking a lot of abuse. Kinda works out.
I absolutely loved Doric but I may have been blinded by my crippling love of pretty redheads
You and me both... you and me both.
And shapeshifters
I am absolutely convinced that Xenk was designed to be a NPC, hence the hilarity of his exit from the party :")
The Hither Thither Staff felt like Simon's player rolled a Nat 1 and then the DM had to fix something and then the players kept using it in ways the DM didn't expect.
Safina’s redeeming quality is killing all the rich assholes with the fog at the end
And she feels like a villain I’d check under my bed if I watched the movie as a kid
If you have a problem with the name Edgin Darvis, then whoo boy, don't ever watch Brennan Lee Mulligan's player characters 😂 "Evan Kelmp" and "Abraham Merhermblur" come to mind...
And this is D&D: tragic backstories are required. No, no, I'm serious. My current character had a perfectly happy life and family, and my DM's first reaction when I gave him my backstory was, "Oh, don't worry, I'll fix that." Within like three sessions, his father was zombified and then killed by a party member, and his mother was kidnapped by human supremacists. If you don't make your character with a tragic backstory, the DM will do it for you 😂
for someone how has never played a single dnd game i loved this movie. it was easy to understand for me. i was used to other fantasy series and movies. so i had some familiarity with shapeshifters, giants, dragons, mimics (those fake chest things). i felt like i didnt miss any major important parts. even though i didnt understand everything i still enjoyed it. will definitely watch more dnd stuff.
I do wish they had taken the easy layup of queer representation by giving Holga an estranged WIFE instead of husband. Michelle Rodriguez is bi, after all.
The halfling wasn't enough?
i think it would've been nice, but i also prefer when rep matters to the plot. the bradley cooper cameo was only there to be funny and add a little depth to holga. i don't know if a gay relationship existing to be funny and then not mattering whatsoever would've added anything, in the way that "nods" to gay existence in movies such as Disney don't add anything. that said, it still could've been cool. idk i guess i could go either way.
I actually liked that it was a guy, just to hammer it in, that yes we have these two characters, Holga and Edgin, who have both been in what could be read as hetero relationships but are not at all attracted to each other. And they stay like that!
She doesn't have to play a queer character just because she's bi.
@@_oaktree_ to add to that, she could still be a bi barbarian and be pining after a male halfling. Bi people don't have to wear their attraction to the same sex on their sleeve.
My thought on the paladin who absolutely is the best character: He is the DM's character from a previous campaign. The DM has to bring him in to help out, be super awesome, help the party with their issues, but ultimately he can't like... stay ya know, he's not a player, but he has to be doing his thing elsewhere the DM's not going to do something terrible to him to keep him from participating so he just is like "You've got this" and leaves.
I think this movie is just SO genuinely good because it knows what it is, it knows who it's for, and it isn't trying to be perfect. They knew when they were making it that the druid shouldn't have that many wildshapes. They knew the hand spells don't... exactly do that. But they know how to make a scene fun, and enjoyable, while still following the correct STRUCTURE, and that's fantastic. Like Haley said, I can see a player saying "Hey I want my druid to be able to wildshape as many times as they want." "Okay but if they do that she's not gonna have any other magic, that's going to be her main thing, are you okay with that?" "Can I turn into an owlbear?" "Ye-" "Absolutely."
The biggest flaws in my book were the lack of LGBT representation, I know it's for general popularity but this is the year of our lord 2023 and I am TIRED, and no handsome nearly seven foot tall half orc I can headcanon as my personal boyfriend. Tragic.
One incredibly minute thing I don't thing the fight scenes get enough credit for either is the choreography. Like... can we take a second to appreciate how EVERYBODY IS FIGHTING TOGETHER? Like it's not just "Oh Simon and Serafina are fighting each other because they're the ones who do the magicy thing and everyone else is standing around going, 'You can do it, Simon!'" like Simon's attacking her with a spell, Olga's throwing knives, the druid even in humanoid form is like swinging her around, the bard's going at her with a sword, none of the characters are idle during fight scenes and that is SO RARE in fantasy movies like this and I LOVE IT SO MUCH.
Also some people complained about the portal staff being too convenient and I'm just like, yes? Was that not intentional? Like, have we all not had a moment where the party has somehow unfixably flubbed the one thing they were supposed to use to get through a puzzle or area and to keep things rolling we've been like "Oh but uh you happen to discover the staff is actuaaaalllyyyyyy...." and then immediately regret it because now we have to deal with the fact that our players... NOW HAVE THAT ITEM OH MY GOD WHAT HAVE I DONE but like GOOD DMs we don't just go "And you immediately lose it!" no. We are good DMs, we improvise. We let the players keep the stupidly powerful item we gave them without thinking. We are here to make sure our players have fun and damnit we will MAKE. IT. WORK. We give them challenges, ways they have to use it creatively. Oh no, the painting is face down, what do you do about that?
Really liked your review. Totally with you on the Bradley Cooper scene. Loved the idea. It.was perfectly strange and heartfelt but the.optics looked so bad. Worse yet, because weve all seen halflings done so much better. Also, yes the.paladin walking Over the rock? Priceless. Best joke in the film
Yeah, out of all the FX in the film, that one was a bit jarring, almost like last-minute. The rest is pretty darned good, even the spell duels.
@@queenannsrevenge100 Especially since you see dwarves and they look good.
@@queenannsrevenge100I thought I heard that it was actually done last minute since Bradley Cooper couldn’t fit it into his schedule or something like that, since the other halfling at the end of the movie didn’t look nearly as bad at least in my opinion
The "straight over the rock" joke was improv? Oh, thank you, Cosmos!
Also, I was *this* close to openly sobbing over Edgin choosing to bring back Helga and the "M Night Shyamalan'ed " flashbacks to show me "you totally missed that she's her MOM!"
Xenk's exit was entirely a "too good" character and the DM going "can you please play another character?"
Nah, Xank was obviously the DMPC/NPC that was there to guide the players on a quest, then the PCs got annoyed at the DM for bringing in an NPC who was obviously much higher level than the rest of the party, making the players feel like they aren't important.
The hither thither staff made me grown out an "Oh fuck you", fun idea but gods the trouble making
I thought that Edgin was a rogue and that's why he didn't cast magic, like he just liked his lute but to me he definitely seemed more like a rogue than a bard
Jarnathan got a full belly laugh from me man, I 100000% have thrown out some shit like that in my games
I really like your point about how all the main characters are basically pure human for the marketing and initial launch of this IP. To reach more people.
People gotta consider more stuff like you did. 👌
On the topic of forgetting to roll dice, I once introduced a creature that looked different to everyone who saw it, looked like everyone's favourite animal, and for ten whole minutes, all the party could do was argue about it. Like, I just sat their laughing so hard with tears in my eyes because it was peak hilarity for some reason, and like, fictional creature, fictional beings, but the party were So Invested in fighting about it... no matter what else they tried discussing, it always came back to The Creature. I don't think anyone even attempted an investigation check, so it just... was.
Honestly, I loved it for its storytelling. It understood that a small, personal story is more engaging than a large, impersonal story. And in DnD, any good DM knows that the best story is a personal one. Yes, the party is of people who will immediately dive into combat to stop a fanatical follower of Szass Tam from creating an army of the dead, but a save-the-world story is routine, there’s little personal. You just show up, beat up some baddie who probably has no clue who you are, and leave, having saved a bunch of complete strangers.
But they made sure to make it personal with the party. For Edgin, it was about rekindling his bond with his daughter, getting back on the man who betrayed him, and processing his grief for his wife in a healthy manner. For Holga, it’s about getting the child she took under her wing back, and getting closure on a past romance with a man who she’s better off as a friend to. For Simon, it’s about conquering his self-doubt, so he can be more than a so-so sorcerer whose self-doubt cuts into the well of charisma he draws his magic from. For Doric, it’s about her protecting her found family, and learning to trust humans, even though she joined the table later on, her character arc feels incomplete. And for DMPC Xenk, it’s about making sure what happened to his people and family doesn’t happen again.
If they never got to grow, if they never got to face someone who wronged them in the past, if there was no personal business, it would not work. A DnD campaign always must be personal for all party members, and it gets that right!
For your consideration: I think Sofina is doing bits all throughout the movie, she just doesn’t need anyone to think they’re funny but her. Revealing a wildshape by pointing and screaming, jumpscaring both Dorick and us? Funny. Revealing she has disguised herself as Edgin’s daughter by laughing in his face? Funny. Having her fifth level Bigby’s Hand engage in a hand wrestle with the sorcerer’s second level Earthen Grasp rather than just counterspelling it outright? Funny. I love this evil wizard, her flair, and her weird sense of humor
I shockingly enjoyed it, it had some solid easter eggs, but how it felt like a real telling of any of a dozen campaigns I've been through, 100% agree.
I actually love the fact that Doric DOESNT get character development, because it’s just so dnd. Like, she is that one player that absolutely loves progressing the plot forward constantly and never stopping for character moments, and I love that for her
I loved it. Bit gutted that the film itself kinda fell off people's cinema schedules in the second week - so I'm hoping it recovers the box office gap in paid-for home viewing etc.
Yeah Doric is basically made for me. Druid, Red Head, Cute Pixie girl.
In my superheroes game, one of my PC's literally has a portal gun as his super power.
I have regretted the decision to allow that almost every session.
Before my first ever campaign and first time being DM, one of the party members asked if he could be an artificer who could replicate 1 magical item per day. This would let him put a bag of holding within another bag of holding, creating a black hole with no rolls to one-shot enemies.
Very glad I didn't let him do that.
You failed to mention that quite often DMs have to 'fix' party 'errors' that destroy their plans for the plot of the adventure so having 'convenient' items does happen at the table.
I absolutely loved the movie, the speak with dead scene is so great! I'm in the middle of whether or not they could have had more variety in the cast, I feel like Guardians of the Galaxy shows you can put your big name actors in makeup and Pine is a much bigger name than Pratt. Idk still think the party fit a party of first time players though.
I agree, but Guardians of the Galaxy was in an already established franchise, and this is a new franchise, so they play it safer than they should
My sister and I got into SUCH an argument on the way home from this movie about whether or not Ed was a bard or rogue! I thought he started as a rogue, wife died, he tried to become a bard to forget his past, and THATS why he couldn't cast spells--because he was NEVER a real Bard. My sister argued that he was a Bard, but his magic was invisible--like when he gives a speech to the crew before the heist, he was giving them bardic inspiration, we just didn't see it because it would be confusing to a non-dnd audience.
Re: the unlimited Druid Wildshapes
WotC has long been looking to change how wildshape works and in one of the earliest UAs for the new corebook rework they did make it so higher-level druids could switch forms an unlimited amount of times within a certain timespan. Sadly that version of the druid also made the all animal shapes one of 3 **really** underpowered templates(that all just used your own HP) so the community were very unhappy with that druid. WotC promply dropped the golden nugget of infinite form switching real fast...
i wonder if they could make it like "you can change wildshape infinite amount of time, on the condition that the forms' HPs accumutively count up to (whatever the agreed amount is)"
so you can change into a cat with 5HP for 6 times under an hour, but you can't do that 7 times cuz we cap at 30HP
I actually loved this film so much more than I thought I would! Everything just lined up to make a really fun, cute and surprisingly heartfelt film. I thought Michelle Rodriguez was so good as Holga. And Chris Pine of course is charismatic in everything.
If they want to expand this universe on film and TV, having the different characters in this movie making occasional cameos early on would probably be a good way to go about it. I suspect the setting of Neverwinter could function as a hub for quite a few adventures, introducing other characters that could make cameos later on in other movies and TV-series and so on. Something fun they could also do is to do a Pratchett, and have a recurring fun character like Cohen the Barbarian as the universe expands - that would be a ton of fun.
I enjoyed this movie so much, as someone who plays a lot of the modules with their groups (currently in a Waterdeep: Dragon Heist, Wild Beyond the Witchlight and Spelljammer campaign + having finished Rime of the Frostmaiden) I was so excited to see the Sword Coast on the big screen and point at places and names and characters and go: "I've been there! I know where/who that is!" And I LOVED Xenk so much, I could feel the DM behind that character, I could imagine one of my DMs playing a character like that who takes things too literal. It was so so good, I adored the practical effects and the party had such nice chemistry, it was just so awesome
I watched this with my nephew that I'm trying to get into dnd, and was exactly telling him about all the things you're referencing....the bad ideas, the good rolls, the terrible rolls, which one is which class.....I think he's in. This movie is watching someone's campaign. Shouldn't be possible, they did it.
I went to see it with my friends, the dnd group, I really enjoyed the film, some of my friends thought it would be better if the story was treated as an actual campaign, like it would cut to a group playing through the scenarios and rolling dice etc, I'm so glad they didn't do that although I was thinking it would be fun if there was an after credits scene where it's the cast playing themselves playing a game of dnd but as it was I still loved it, burst out laughing a lot, thankfully it was just us in the cinema, it was exactly what I wanted out of a dnd movie
I too hope that this movie isn't the "Serenity" of D&D but merely the first of a long and storied series of masterpieces.
I remember one thing I went absolutely wild about was the sending stones. I mean, after listening to arc 2 of uc and you guys using the stones as phones it both just made sense that they were used as ear pieces in the movie and was very exiting to see on the big screen. My personal favorite instance of "rule of cool" in the movie :)
Hey, I wanted that promotional popcorn bucket from AMC. Was so sad I couldn't get it
Same. I specifically went to a theater that was further away just for the popcorn bucket, and the jerks didn’t even bother to stock them 😡
@@Thndrcougrfalcnbrd Right? So I asked if they're ever going to get it so I can come back, they were like, we only get one shipment.
@@yb554 I ended up getting a really cool D&D cup at the theater that’s actually close to my house when I went to see the Mario movie 😂
@@Thndrcougrfalcnbrd That's cool, I got a cup and tub from Regal but it's not the same. Hah. I do miss the times when movies will give free promotional materials.
I somehow found this channel through the Shrek video, so to hear you describe yourself as a D&D Content Creator is so unexpectedly HYPE!
Spoilers, I WILL be bingeing your whole channel over the coming weeks, probably out of order, so expect to see my comments sprout wildly about the place. See y'all there! ;)
The Practical effects were so good. The first dragonborn made me smile to see
I’ve never found someone who appreciates Chris Pine to the same level as me, and I am deeply grateful. Also your hair looks amazing ^_^
Every good DM knows how and when to bend the rules and let there players do wildly improbable but very cool things.
this movie was no different and i love it
My favorite small reference was that one of the groups in the tournament was the party from the original Dungeons and Dragons cartoon from the 80s
They’ve been at it for over forty years
i kind of liked that all of the characters were humanoid. it felt like people around a table genuinely playing a campaign lol
Simon is like the perfect example of wanting to play a magic user but putting your stat points in the wrong place to cast the magic you need.
I feel like he’s the character who constantly gets bad rolls, so they write it as his doubt in his ability hampering his charisma, which is what sorcerers use to cast spells. Until he gets good rolls, usually under pressure.
Spot on. Agree on so, so many points. If I had anything to pick about the movie or your review of it, it was nits (damn those nits). What I do have issues with are the channels who are hating on the flick over those aforementioned pesky nits. Nobody should be complaining about getting to see an Owlbear onscreen in their lifetime. Awesome review, well done! Liked and subscribed.
11:38 There was a point where I was very genuinely convinced it was a fakeout and that girl she saved was her girlfriend? And boy was I wrong
This movie slapped. That's it. That's the whole review
Finally, someone to comment on the daughter combo with the adult actors, was so good
I just _know_ that the portal painting gambit was something that the DM didn't account for and that's why the duid is unceremoniously KOed to course-correct
fantastic review! I absolutely agree. Curse of Strahd would hit some pretty intense notes if they pulled it off.
I was very glad to have read both prequal books before the movie. It made the movie that much better.
Forge did NOT order them killed... He specifically ordered his men to take them back to prison when there was no one there that he world be trying to deceive. The Wizard ordered them to have them killed.
Also, Doric looked just like some of the 2nd edition Tieflings from the Planescape book...
I cannot believe that you did not mention Themberchaud... My favorite Red Dragon of all time... Actually my favorite Dragon of all time, with the possible exception of Vermithrax Pejorative from "Dragonslayer" (1981), which, if you have not seen it, is DEFINATALLY worth a watch!
Haver you ever read this?
Themberchaud's lament
"And now I am far too large to ever leave. Even if I tore the entire place down around me, I could not claw my way to the surface from here. Instead, I remain buried in a prison of my parents' making, far beneath a sky I've never seen."
I never thought I would feel sorry for a Red Dragon... Look up his back story some time and you will see what I mean... I was so angry when I thought they had killed him off, but thankfully they left him alive in the end.
One of my favorite headcannons is that Xenc's player just left mid campaign and left the DM scrambling to find an excuse. Has happened to parties I have been in, its lretty accurate.
Great review... My one question tho...
Was Edgin a bard, or actually a rogue with a lute? Hmmm....
Also, I don't think the point of the Helm was to get past the magical door.
It was for Simon gain his confidence, which he needed for the final battle.
I stumbled over this video while trying to rationalize my love for Honor Among Thieves and well well well if this isn’t one of the best criticisms and breakdowns ever! Loved and agreed with every shrewd point!
I did, in fact, just pause this video to watch the entire movie (loved it, of course!), and now I'm back!
The higher thither staff scene made me go, they were supposed to solve that puzzle and someone immediately got something majorly wrong and rolled a nat one. This led to the dungeon master having to come up with an on the fly way to get them across a chasm in which no one had fly etc.
Edgin isn't a bard though. He's a paladin holding a lute, convinced he is a bard now
My head cannon is that the straight line that Xenk walked when he left, is the same straight line he was walking when he showed back up at the end. He started walking and didn't stop he knew exactly where to go
I really read Doric and Simon as characters for people who it was their first time playing. So all the backstories are pretty simple and the heavier story moments are handled by the more experienced players (Edgin and Holga)
But yeah. If they make another D&D movie I hope they have permission to go crazy
I spent the entire movie imagining myself as the dungeon master of this campaign and looooooved every second of it.
The "is that Bradley Cooper?" part just got me hard.
Made me think of the "we love him for some reason" line from bojack.xD
i will say in d&d canon most tie flings do have human skin tones and just look like people with horns and a tail. but when people have the option to make their character a fun colour they almost always take it so we just assume tieflings should always be colourful but it does work in canon
Other than Doric's slingshot most of her action was through her wildshape stuff and being part of heist sequences. So as a character she contributed a lot but the actor didn't get much of a chance beyond reacting to what others said, I felt. If there's a sequel I hope she gets more of a chance to do stuff. There was still a lot going on so it didn't bother me too much. They could have kept Simon prime magic person and maybe had her do a goodberry for a quiet moment or something, talk to trees. Something obvioously within the nature trope, but it's fine. Wildshape was her thing. I guess you could justify this as some sort of alternate Druid where wildshape was emphasized at the expense of spellcasting?
There were a lot of little touches in the movie that made me very happy, screenwriting stuff that I began to suspect people forgot how to do, they did. Happy I saw it. I'll let it rest and watch it again to see how much replay value I can get out of it.
The panic NPC name joke never gets old :)
I think my favorite part about the practical effects was how it made it look almost like the kind of stuff you'd see at a con or a larp.
Tieflings do not have to be big red and horny. Their lower planes heritage can show up in as minor way as tiny norns or inhuman eyes, or as extreme as their entire face bing covered in eyes.
The quicksand carpet thing gave me ptsd flashbacks to the 2000 movie with Marlon Wayans in a very similar situation.
Someone, whom I'm convinced didn't see the movie, complained that the characters were flat, the dialogue sucked, the plot was boring, and they relied on terrible CGI. I corrected him saying he was objectively wrong about one thing, most of the special effects were practical. He said, "I'm glad you enjoyed the movie, I didn't." I literally gave no opinion on the movie (I really enjoyed it; I was smiling throughout, and that's exactly what I wanted from it, but I didn't give my opinion. I only stated the fact that most of the effects were animatronic, makeup, forced perspective, etc. When I say objective, I mean in absence of mind. You need to use your mind to say the characters were flat or the plot was boring, but it's a hard fact that animatronics were used far more than CGI.
Xenk is not DMNPC, he's DM's best friend who's always too busy to play, so when they got him for a few sessions he was made an OP paladin with backstory directly connected to the plot :D
The hilarious thing is that Doric's wild shapes actually make sense if you take 5 minutes to read the PHB. She turns into an owlbear, so clearly she has polymorph prepared. Even assuming she DOESN'T have 7 uses of wild shape (2+a wisdom modifier of 5 from a score of 20 is 7) she could still make up the remainder with 2 polymorphs, minimum. Doric's wild shapes aren't a problem, people just love a problem
I think if you were to stat out Edgin, he would be a mastermind rogue, not a bard
No he’s a bard, he gives out bardic inspiration which is the core bard feature, not spell casting.
@@motomoto8019 yeah, but Mastermind Rogues can’t cast spells, and can give their Allies advantage on rolls as a bonus action, which would look very similar to bardic inspiration
*still spoiler free but does discuss the movie more closely than the spoiler free review in the video*
I liked Simon a lot for the really amateurish vibe he brought to the group. He's one of the youngest members (maybe younger than Doric?) and still can't fully control his magic- which makes sense because he's a Wild Magic Sorcerer. I wish he'd had a little bit more to do in the second act; same with Doric.
My players and I also watched together and were immediately obsessed with Xenk, to the point that he's been (forcibly) incorporated into one of our campaigns. That's how cool and fun he was. Personally, I saw him as a NPC who showed up, delivered exposition, showed them how to get somewhere, and then left because the DM needed the party to actually get their crap together and solve the problem. The expression on his face when Simon did the Thing with the stones? Fantastic. Pure DM disappoint. Exactly how I feel when my players pull some shit and now I have to fix it- perhaps even with a sudden Item !!!!
I agree that some more character bonding moments would've been nice, especially for Doric. She has the least to do with dynamics and I think incorporating her a tiny bit more a tiny bit earlier (second act?) would've helped.
10/10 best movie ive seen in a while.
You should watch the 2000 movie, if only to watch Jeremy Irons' over the top performance that is so bad that it's actually so good. I agree this movie was good, pretty fun. Too bad it is being measured mostly by its box office returns, which were not good. A lot of the Easter eggs were spoiled in the trailers because Hollywood doesn't know how to make effective trailers.
Can II call you Haley? Can I call you Whipjack? Can I call you Haley Whipjack?
Jarnathan is the goat
Loving the haircut! You look ##$%ing awesome!