Thank you for this. I've been banging on for years about the way tailgating can cause an anxiety response in the victim, demanding too much attention is paid to the vehicle behind rather than the other three quarters of the circle. This raises the risk of erratic actions, thus raising risk to the tailgater. It's self-defeating behaviour. Love the expert voices.
Harrying the car in front almost always is to your detriment. A good example is tooting the horn when someone hasn't immediately moved off when lights turn green. At the very least, the driver in front will be distracted and hesitate more but they are also more likely to stall.
Good points, I hate how close other drivers follow me and how close they pull up behind me at lights etc, happens daily. I was waiting to cross a road the other day and a learner was having a stressful moment, struggling to get the bite and move off. Car behind was right on their tail and getting impatient but was making things worse for that poor learner (not a driving school car so I’d have definitely been giving them some space) I decided to move further down the road to cross over as they didn’t need me there or crossing in front or behind them.
I would apply this to all drivers. You have no idea what they're thinking or whether they have any disability. You don't know whether they're returning to the roads following a break from driving or an rtc. Are they driving distracted? Are they unfamiliar with the roads they're driving on or making a mistake? You have to realise that no drivers on the road are perfect and drive accordingly. This is especially true with learners.
My son is taking professional lessons and I agreed to take him out over the weekend for some practice. We got insurance sorted, slapped on some L plates and planned a route. We went out at a relatively quiet time and tried to avoid traffic as much as possible, but even so I was pleasantly surprised by the patience that other road users showed to our relatively slow progress. There is always an exception, and to the Mercedes SUV driver that honked and waved his arms around the moment my lad stalled at a roundabout - I hope you find yourself flustered at a junction and someone else treats you the same way. I didn't agree to go out with him until he had some professional lessons under his belt, but I'd like to add that a "normal" car with L plates doesn't have dual controls and the person in the passenger seat will likely have little experience at teaching.
My dad was a driving instructor back in the 80s, i got a lot of hints and tips as well as advanced driving from him. The point he made to me early on after i had passed my test, look how much more progress a learner driver makes when not being tailgated. I wasnt tailgating the learner, but as he was a builder as well and i worked for him, it was a point he made as we drive in the van. We would see someone tailgate the learner, sometimes pass them and they would only get so far up the road to the rest of the traffic. We would hold back from the learner and let them get on with it and usually they would be great. Hardly any hold up in progress. Impatient drivers will never understand the bigger picture that speed does not always equal progress. And i find the best way to handle them, for me anyway, is my current van has a towbar on it and cruise control\ a limiter, i just set my speed, and if they want to rear end a tow bar, its going to destroy their car. Currently i am in Italy, over here tailgating is normal as well as some madness crazy driving, its interesting as i drive the hire car, but i just go with the flow, make progress when i can and if those impatient drivers go to overtake, i help them and let them go, usually i catch them at the next set of lights or junction. Its annoying those folk that are impatient wont get it, but they too might be under stress and not handling a situation well, and they see the L plate as a target to vent on. Ashley Neal gets a similar amount of them too and its a shame these people cant change and have a better attitude to driving.
The video i've always wanted to make.... I was a PDI for 4 months and I quickly released that it wasn't for me... The people on our roads have zero respect for learners or the rules... I am currently pursuing other avenues of road safety and I absolutely love these videos James.. There needs to be way more enforcement on bad driving... If every vehicle was fitted with cams to display to the authorities with successful prosecution and fines or points then most people would wise up to getting 5 secs ahead down the road. Road safety with particular attention to respecting and keeping your distance from L plates displayed. Unless you have instructed learners from all walks of life, no one will ever understand. more needs to be done as its only going to get worse undetermined.
Left foot to the brake makes for a very violent stop. Had one pupil do that with a car very close behind, we were both surprised he didn't hit us. 50yds later, pupil did it again. Car behind nearly hit us again. Fully liveried BSM car at the time, so a few clues. Driver behind, bit of a slow learning curve. The 'panic attack', foot hard on the brake, and won't let go, is always a good one. Sat in the junction, trying to get the pupil to calm down and let go. Surprisingly, horns blaring don't help much. Happy days.
@@jonnyspeed8974 I think you've missed the issue here. Learners often feel a lot of pressure, and in the early stages, may, and do, move their left foot too far to the right, and hit the brake instead of the clutch. This is not a deliberate act, but just one problem that occurs with teaching learners. With the clutch always being depressed to the floor, when that action hits the brake, it results in the most violent emergency stop you will ever perform, much more than any other emergency stop. Following traffic will always be taken by surprise, but they should give learners plenty of space, there's a clue with the L-plates. Be afraid, keep away.
@@jonnyspeed8974 What is wrong with you? Are you deliberately baiting, or really this stupid? Nowhere did I say that I taught learners to us their left foot on anything other than the clutch, but you seem to have assumed this. From that stupid assumption, you then declare that I should not be teaching. It is all in your head. Learners make mistakes, as we all do, including you, as demonstrated here. Wind yourself in and stop making wild accusations that are founded only in your imagination.
Thank you. Following distance, regardless of who is being followed, has been a bugbear of mine for a very long time. I simply don't understand why people drive too close. It's dangerous, you don't have time to react, you can't see ahead as well, in the wet (where the distance should be more anyway) you will be sitting in someone's spray, it means your car is more likely to get damaged (even if you don't crash - stone chips etc), and so on. What's more, not only is it dangerous, it confers no advantage whatsoever. Keeping a safe distance is, as a leading expert has stated, is not difficult. I really appreciate the perspective in this video though. Many people don't think about the learner in the driver's seat, much less the instructor. Too many people simply don't think about how their actions will be influencing other people and, in the case of a driving lesson, making a potentially stressful, complicated task even more so. Hang back, give learners space and time to do what they are going to do. Hassling them and intimidating them will just make things worse for them, the instructor and for you. Be nice. Treat people how you'd want to be treated. I also really appreciate that you acknowledged how different forms of neurodiversity can change the dynamic of what is happening. Many people won't consider that at all. I think it's very important that you have acknowledged some of the things that can happen and that you have brought the idea to a wider audience. As with so many things, neurodivergent friendly is people friendly. If a person drives to minimise the challenges to a neurodivergent driver, they minimise the challenges to all drivers, neurodivergent or not.
@@Enjay001 absolutely, thank you for this. There are so many people that drive so close to others nowadays, for me it shows a lack of consideration for the person in front. Let alone if they are a learner
@@Enjay001 it's lack of planning and they look at the car in front which causes them to get too close. If you've ever watched the track cycling and see how close they get but don't touch wheels it's done by watching the space to the riders head. We definitely don't need to travel thst close. Yet if we use the principle of watching the space and not the car we will naturally stay a safe distance back
On my first ever driving lesson over 60 years ago, within 10 minutes of it starting, I was pulled up at a traffic light, in the left-hand lane, to go straight ahead. Another driver pulled up on my right and, as the lights changed, he shot away and turned left across the front of my vehicle. Fortunately, I was in a dual control car as I would not have been able to react in time, given my inexperience. The rest of the lesson passed in a complete haze and funk. Maybe that’s why I always give extra space to learner drivers or maybe it’s just common sense.
Here's what I do when spotting an L or a P plate: * Give double the usual gap/time I'd normally give (more if the conditions are really bad) * If they are (about to start) manoeuvring, give them as much space as is safe. * If they are manoeuvring, take a defensive position to protect that space
I have been driving for a while and I always come across someone tailgating especially in country roads with national speed limits applied. So in essence disappearance of the L plates may deter to some extent, but some people still have that knack of tailgating and want me to break the law. Sometimes I feel like pulling over my car and ask the driver behind to safely overtake me. The trouble is those country roads barely have space to do such thing.
I've been rear-ended a couple of times NOT as a learner. Each time, the other driver's insurance has had to pick up the bill! The lesson is clear: follow too close behind, and you run the risk of a hefty bill if the car in front stops suddenly.
I didn't pass my driving test until I was in my forties, I was on a lesson once, driving at the speed limit, and got a car tailgaiting me and honking. My instructor put on the hazards, and applied the brake. He said 'Go have a word' So I did. Mr Angry in the car behind did not expect a grown adult to get out of the car. I just knocked on his window and asked how I could help. He couldn't even look me in the eye. Now, I don't think what my instructor did was correct, but then we all have our limits, and it was really quite funny. Maybe it taught Mr Angry a lesson.
Tailgating seems to be endemic. Indeed, I'm so pleasantly surprised when any driver follows me with a 2-second gap, that I often find myself mentally praising them. Oh, and you've just earned a sub for your wonderful attitude.
@@weevilinabox thank you vey much. Yes I’ve just come home after a particularly close but unfortunately not uncommon tailgater. Very annoying and as you say I often find myself pleasantly surprised by people keeping distance, which should be a norm!
Your two experts were excellent. 👍 I've never had an accident that was caused by me in 54 years of driving. However, I've also been rear-ended 3 or 4 times by other drivers and even front-ended twice by drivers reversing into me. Luckily, damage was minimal in all cases and without any personal injury in every case. It does keep my insurance premiums down although it's not the whole story as my Wife was on my policy and she has made a few claims. 🙁
Really interesting some of the mental conditions i wouldn't consider but i also wouldn't drive really close to a learner. I did follow a learner the other week and they drove that well I asked the question why do you have L plates . Thier position on the road for best view where they braked come off the brakes. Everything was exactly how I would do it . I was honestly impressed with how well they drove corners with the temptation to cut they waited till they could see in then got on with it when safe.
This amplifies the point about the L plate only telling you that the driver has yet to pass their test. That was presumably a driver who will shortly take a test and will likely pass it
Any thoughts on "Left, passenger"; "Right, driver" phrasing to get past L/R confusions? I remember years ago (UOTC, Landrover, Otterburn area) where someone was giving directions as Knife/Fork just for fun....
No L plates on, been driving for 35 years. Drive defensively and ALWAYS at or just below the speed limit. It's not just learners that get hassled by poor drivers...
Good video James, it's something that needed to be brought to attention. Too many people abusing the L plate these days, almost as if they're allergic to them 😂. It's funny because when I did my pass plus this week my instructor took his roof box off and L plates and it's surprising how differently you get treated. On a side note Poppy's got some serious sas, no one's pulling a fast one on her 😂 Have a good one mate 👍
Learner drivers should be treated like any other driver, with patience and respect. If you're adjusting, it probably says more about your aggressive driving and inattention to what is happening around you.
1:46 not entirely accurate statement. Sometimes a car with a L plate only has one single occupant.... In which case your statement is incorrect. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't people meant to remove the L plates from a car when they do not have a learner present? Driving school cars are excluded from this rule...??
@@86XFA yes of course, if only one occupant is present. I usually remove mine as I have been pulled over a couple of times checking i have a license and can’t be bothered with the hassle anymore 😂
@JamesSimkinsADI We've all been watching MindSetDrive - Could you please do a video about drivers who actively cut up L drivers and please demonstrate the correct action to take.
Yeah that’s pretty unacceptable. These folk are only demonstrating that they don’t deserve to hold a licence. Perhaps this should be reported directly to the DVSA with video footage so that some form of warning can be issued with penalties for persistent muppets.
This get me a bit. L plate means treat someone with respect basically. Not too close. Try not to let impatience show... Shouldn't we really be treating *everyone* like that? Most of the point made can be relevant to *anyone* on the road.
We were all learners once, experienced drivers need to remember that.
I really was waiting for two experts at the end! I wasn't disappointed 👍🏻😄
@@Richard_Barnes the best the nation has!
Thank you for this. I've been banging on for years about the way tailgating can cause an anxiety response in the victim, demanding too much attention is paid to the vehicle behind rather than the other three quarters of the circle. This raises the risk of erratic actions, thus raising risk to the tailgater. It's self-defeating behaviour.
Love the expert voices.
Harrying the car in front almost always is to your detriment. A good example is tooting the horn when someone hasn't immediately moved off when lights turn green. At the very least, the driver in front will be distracted and hesitate more but they are also more likely to stall.
Good points, I hate how close other drivers follow me and how close they pull up behind me at lights etc, happens daily. I was waiting to cross a road the other day and a learner was having a stressful moment, struggling to get the bite and move off. Car behind was right on their tail and getting impatient but was making things worse for that poor learner (not a driving school car so I’d have definitely been giving them some space) I decided to move further down the road to cross over as they didn’t need me there or crossing in front or behind them.
@@alisont308 really nice consideration , thank you for sharing
I treat learners like horses. Be patient allow plenty of room and just let them get on with it. It's not hard is it?
@@highdownmartincouldn’t agree more
And what if you are from a country where they eat horses? (Kazakhstan, France, etc)
@ well you be driving on the other side of the road so you would have already had a fatal head on collision so it wouldn’t matter.
I would apply this to all drivers. You have no idea what they're thinking or whether they have any disability. You don't know whether they're returning to the roads following a break from driving or an rtc. Are they driving distracted? Are they unfamiliar with the roads they're driving on or making a mistake?
You have to realise that no drivers on the road are perfect and drive accordingly. This is especially true with learners.
My son is taking professional lessons and I agreed to take him out over the weekend for some practice. We got insurance sorted, slapped on some L plates and planned a route. We went out at a relatively quiet time and tried to avoid traffic as much as possible, but even so I was pleasantly surprised by the patience that other road users showed to our relatively slow progress. There is always an exception, and to the Mercedes SUV driver that honked and waved his arms around the moment my lad stalled at a roundabout - I hope you find yourself flustered at a junction and someone else treats you the same way.
I didn't agree to go out with him until he had some professional lessons under his belt, but I'd like to add that a "normal" car with L plates doesn't have dual controls and the person in the passenger seat will likely have little experience at teaching.
Well said
My dad was a driving instructor back in the 80s, i got a lot of hints and tips as well as advanced driving from him.
The point he made to me early on after i had passed my test, look how much more progress a learner driver makes when not being tailgated.
I wasnt tailgating the learner, but as he was a builder as well and i worked for him, it was a point he made as we drive in the van. We would see someone tailgate the learner, sometimes pass them and they would only get so far up the road to the rest of the traffic. We would hold back from the learner and let them get on with it and usually they would be great. Hardly any hold up in progress.
Impatient drivers will never understand the bigger picture that speed does not always equal progress.
And i find the best way to handle them, for me anyway, is my current van has a towbar on it and cruise control\ a limiter, i just set my speed, and if they want to rear end a tow bar, its going to destroy their car.
Currently i am in Italy, over here tailgating is normal as well as some madness crazy driving, its interesting as i drive the hire car, but i just go with the flow, make progress when i can and if those impatient drivers go to overtake, i help them and let them go, usually i catch them at the next set of lights or junction.
Its annoying those folk that are impatient wont get it, but they too might be under stress and not handling a situation well, and they see the L plate as a target to vent on. Ashley Neal gets a similar amount of them too and its a shame these people cant change and have a better attitude to driving.
The video i've always wanted to make.... I was a PDI for 4 months and I quickly released that it wasn't for me... The people on our roads have zero respect for learners or the rules... I am currently pursuing other avenues of road safety and I absolutely love these videos James..
There needs to be way more enforcement on bad driving... If every vehicle was fitted with cams to display to the authorities with successful prosecution and fines or points then most people would wise up to getting 5 secs ahead down the road. Road safety with particular attention to respecting and keeping your distance from L plates displayed.
Unless you have instructed learners from all walks of life, no one will ever understand. more needs to be done as its only going to get worse undetermined.
Left foot to the brake makes for a very violent stop. Had one pupil do that with a car very close behind, we were both surprised he didn't hit us. 50yds later, pupil did it again. Car behind nearly hit us again. Fully liveried BSM car at the time, so a few clues. Driver behind, bit of a slow learning curve.
The 'panic attack', foot hard on the brake, and won't let go, is always a good one. Sat in the junction, trying to get the pupil to calm down and let go. Surprisingly, horns blaring don't help much. Happy days.
Left foot should only be on the clutch or next to it on the rest,
@@jonnyspeed8974 I think you've missed the issue here. Learners often feel a lot of pressure, and in the early stages, may, and do, move their left foot too far to the right, and hit the brake instead of the clutch. This is not a deliberate act, but just one problem that occurs with teaching learners. With the clutch always being depressed to the floor, when that action hits the brake, it results in the most violent emergency stop you will ever perform, much more than any other emergency stop. Following traffic will always be taken by surprise, but they should give learners plenty of space, there's a clue with the L-plates. Be afraid, keep away.
@@nigelcox1451 If you are teaching learners to take their foot off the clutch and search for other peddles, you shouldn't be teaching.
@@jonnyspeed8974 What is wrong with you? Are you deliberately baiting, or really this stupid? Nowhere did I say that I taught learners to us their left foot on anything other than the clutch, but you seem to have assumed this. From that stupid assumption, you then declare that I should not be teaching. It is all in your head. Learners make mistakes, as we all do, including you, as demonstrated here. Wind yourself in and stop making wild accusations that are founded only in your imagination.
05:01 I can assure you, sadly there will be many drivers out there screaming "...then they shouldn't be on the road!"
Thank you. Following distance, regardless of who is being followed, has been a bugbear of mine for a very long time. I simply don't understand why people drive too close. It's dangerous, you don't have time to react, you can't see ahead as well, in the wet (where the distance should be more anyway) you will be sitting in someone's spray, it means your car is more likely to get damaged (even if you don't crash - stone chips etc), and so on. What's more, not only is it dangerous, it confers no advantage whatsoever. Keeping a safe distance is, as a leading expert has stated, is not difficult.
I really appreciate the perspective in this video though. Many people don't think about the learner in the driver's seat, much less the instructor. Too many people simply don't think about how their actions will be influencing other people and, in the case of a driving lesson, making a potentially stressful, complicated task even more so. Hang back, give learners space and time to do what they are going to do. Hassling them and intimidating them will just make things worse for them, the instructor and for you. Be nice. Treat people how you'd want to be treated.
I also really appreciate that you acknowledged how different forms of neurodiversity can change the dynamic of what is happening. Many people won't consider that at all. I think it's very important that you have acknowledged some of the things that can happen and that you have brought the idea to a wider audience. As with so many things, neurodivergent friendly is people friendly. If a person drives to minimise the challenges to a neurodivergent driver, they minimise the challenges to all drivers, neurodivergent or not.
@@Enjay001 absolutely, thank you for this. There are so many people that drive so close to others nowadays, for me it shows a lack of consideration for the person in front. Let alone if they are a learner
@@Enjay001 it's lack of planning and they look at the car in front which causes them to get too close. If you've ever watched the track cycling and see how close they get but don't touch wheels it's done by watching the space to the riders head. We definitely don't need to travel thst close. Yet if we use the principle of watching the space and not the car we will naturally stay a safe distance back
On my first ever driving lesson over 60 years ago, within 10 minutes of it starting, I was pulled up at a traffic light, in the left-hand lane, to go straight ahead. Another driver pulled up on my right and, as the lights changed, he shot away and turned left across the front of my vehicle. Fortunately, I was in a dual control car as I would not have been able to react in time, given my inexperience. The rest of the lesson passed in a complete haze and funk. Maybe that’s why I always give extra space to learner drivers or maybe it’s just common sense.
Here's what I do when spotting an L or a P plate:
* Give double the usual gap/time I'd normally give (more if the conditions are really bad)
* If they are (about to start) manoeuvring, give them as much space as is safe.
* If they are manoeuvring, take a defensive position to protect that space
I have been driving for a while and I always come across someone tailgating especially in country roads with national speed limits applied. So in essence disappearance of the L plates may deter to some extent, but some people still have that knack of tailgating and want me to break the law. Sometimes I feel like pulling over my car and ask the driver behind to safely overtake me. The trouble is those country roads barely have space to do such thing.
@@Dr196903 absolutely, I regularly experience tailgating. And with 4 people having crashed into the back of me I don’t enjoy it!
Those turn in arrows on the run up to the double white lines are set at 2 seconds apart for the road's speed limit.
I've been rear-ended a couple of times NOT as a learner. Each time, the other driver's insurance has had to pick up the bill! The lesson is clear: follow too close behind, and you run the risk of a hefty bill if the car in front stops suddenly.
I didn't pass my driving test until I was in my forties, I was on a lesson once, driving at the speed limit, and got a car tailgaiting me and honking. My instructor put on the hazards, and applied the brake. He said 'Go have a word' So I did. Mr Angry in the car behind did not expect a grown adult to get out of the car. I just knocked on his window and asked how I could help. He couldn't even look me in the eye. Now, I don't think what my instructor did was correct, but then we all have our limits, and it was really quite funny. Maybe it taught Mr Angry a lesson.
Tailgating seems to be endemic. Indeed, I'm so pleasantly surprised when any driver follows me with a 2-second gap, that I often find myself mentally praising them.
Oh, and you've just earned a sub for your wonderful attitude.
@@weevilinabox thank you vey much. Yes I’ve just come home after a particularly close but unfortunately not uncommon tailgater. Very annoying and as you say I often find myself pleasantly surprised by people keeping distance, which should be a norm!
Your two experts were excellent. 👍
I've never had an accident that was caused by me in 54 years of driving. However, I've also been rear-ended 3 or 4 times by other drivers and even front-ended twice by drivers reversing into me. Luckily, damage was minimal in all cases and without any personal injury in every case. It does keep my insurance premiums down although it's not the whole story as my Wife was on my policy and she has made a few claims. 🙁
Really interesting some of the mental conditions i wouldn't consider but i also wouldn't drive really close to a learner. I did follow a learner the other week and they drove that well I asked the question why do you have L plates . Thier position on the road for best view where they braked come off the brakes. Everything was exactly how I would do it . I was honestly impressed with how well they drove corners with the temptation to cut they waited till they could see in then got on with it when safe.
This amplifies the point about the L plate only telling you that the driver has yet to pass their test. That was presumably a driver who will shortly take a test and will likely pass it
Any thoughts on "Left, passenger"; "Right, driver" phrasing to get past L/R confusions?
I remember years ago (UOTC, Landrover, Otterburn area) where someone was giving directions as Knife/Fork just for fun....
Unfortunately it appears that te ability of many to use left fork, right knife has disappeared from many young people.
No L plates on, been driving for 35 years. Drive defensively and ALWAYS at or just below the speed limit. It's not just learners that get hassled by poor drivers...
@@mattgowen I agree. I drive as you describe and always tailgated
Excellent, thanks for sharing this.
Good video James, it's something that needed to be brought to attention. Too many people abusing the L plate these days, almost as if they're allergic to them 😂. It's funny because when I did my pass plus this week my instructor took his roof box off and L plates and it's surprising how differently you get treated.
On a side note Poppy's got some serious sas, no one's pulling a fast one on her 😂
Have a good one mate 👍
Fantastic video.
Learner drivers should be treated like any other driver, with patience and respect. If you're adjusting, it probably says more about your aggressive driving and inattention to what is happening around you.
@@jonnyspeed8974 well said!
1:46 not entirely accurate statement. Sometimes a car with a L plate only has one single occupant.... In which case your statement is incorrect. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't people meant to remove the L plates from a car when they do not have a learner present? Driving school cars are excluded from this rule...??
@@86XFA yes of course, if only one occupant is present. I usually remove mine as I have been pulled over a couple of times checking i have a license and can’t be bothered with the hassle anymore 😂
@JamesSimkinsADI
We've all been watching MindSetDrive - Could you please do a video about drivers who actively cut up L drivers and please demonstrate the correct action to take.
Yes, it's a question mark.
@@pjay3028 my favourite type of mark. Apart from mark Wahlberg
@JamesSimpkinsADI better than a skid mark!
@ oh the worst type of mark!
Yeah that’s pretty unacceptable. These folk are only demonstrating that they don’t deserve to hold a licence. Perhaps this should be reported directly to the DVSA with video footage so that some form of warning can be issued with penalties for persistent muppets.
This get me a bit. L plate means treat someone with respect basically. Not too close. Try not to let impatience show...
Shouldn't we really be treating *everyone* like that? Most of the point made can be relevant to *anyone* on the road.