What short comings do we deny? Everyone knows he didn't trust his teammates when he first came in the league because he had trust issues and they were not that good. I don't think anyone denies that Jordan couldn't get past the Celtics or the Pistons. Celtics being one of the best teams ever assembled. Jordan didn't past the Pistons until the Bulls got Scottie Pippen and he got closer to his prime. Then the Bulls won 3 straight. Jordan retires for a year and half. Comes back shows flashes of his old self. Got beat and outplayed by a better them Orlando that year. Comes back, win 3 straight titles again. Retired. Came back at 38 with the Wizards. Wasn't the same player. Would show flashes every once in awhile. Still the GOAT. Don't see where people deny his flaws. I think people are too busy forgetting Jordan's greatness. Lebron is and will go down as one of the greatest players of all time but not the GOAT.
LEBRON BEAT DURANT AND WESTBROOKE,DUNCAN AND POPOVICH,THEN A 73 WIN GS TELL WHAT GREAT TEAMS THE BULLS BEAT BULLS NEVER FACED AN INTACT TEAM THAT HAD ALREADY WON A CHAMPIOSHIP
@Kenneth Erickson MJ played more than 6 years in the nba. so by that his 6 for 15. by this logic only one man is great...The Great Bill Russell..dude went 11 for 12. by this logic lets stop talking about losers like MJ, kobe, lebron Dwade, magic, larry bird, tim, and so on. if you dont at the very least have a positive %s on Season vs Rings over 50..you are a loser. or...next before people tried to hate we can use something called a brain?
@@Slipknot5301 Rings are a team thing..again Bill Russell has 11. MJ is just a scorer and defender..lebron is a scorer, passer, and defender of all 5 spots. mj ended up being in the top 5 all time scoring..lebron will end up being top 2 or 1 all time Scoring and top 5 all time assist. so again, stats? does not go to MJ..kareen, lebron, wilt, kobe, and so on are better. rings? MJ has 6 meanwhile bill is laughing with 11. Career? Kareem if you do not know how to form a basketball point dont do so, if all you can say is 6 rings than you dont know MJ the player and what makes him one of the Goats. Bill beaten Wilt, Lebron had to beat KD, Curry,Tim for his Kareem had to beat prim piston/boston MJ could never beat none of the all time Teams in his Era...he had to wait till there Era was over...than get his own Super Team while the closet thing other team had was 1 Star or 1 superstar. again....if all you can say is 6 rings than stop typing at that point.
@@BrotherO4 lebron james lost 2 as many finals than he won 3-6 , jordan perfect 6-6 in finals that ends debate., jordan defensive player of the year how many lebron won?0
@@ash1234073 jordon won how many rings when there where real teams around? 0. all came from avg teams. lebron had to face OKC, Spurs, GSW, and Super GSW. Bulls didnt face any GSW and won..they where the GSW of that era and no one was even close. also funny how all you are left is 6-6 which is not true..jordan played more than 6 season..uhm you do know if you play a season..and dont win you lost. its not better to lose in the first round than than in the finals. also funny DPOY is what you have left...mmeanwhile lebron has everything else. also if its by rings only...Bill Russell laughs with 11 rings. Wilt had the whole NBA making rules to stop him meanwhile the NBA made rules to make it easier for MJ. MJ was in a league where they had illegal Defense. by MJ word about this rule being removed.. letting teams double/triple guard at anytime does not let the superstar to be efficient. MJ had to retire two times meanwhile Bill, wilt, kobe, and lebron didnt need "Rest". Lebron/kobe had more minutes than MJ and still was playing at a higher level..lebron even more so. so debate all you want but if its about rings MJ lost, by history book MJ lost, Defense player? MJ lost, minutes played? mj lost, dealing with non illegal defense? MJ lost kareem says high, Kobe says high, Bill says high, lebron says high, and wilt says hello. Acting like MJ holds some record..all that he has left is 6-6 and its not even the most..not even close.
Skip correctly believes that Lebron will never be as good as Michael. He is supposed to be in the discussion with Michael but his 4 failures in finals means he will never reach MJ's level. The GOAT is MJ and Lebron is second best at best. Nick's facts are tainted by the fact his purpose is solely to try to bring Michael down. He brings up Birds Celtics and Isiah's pistons and the fact that Michael got swept 3 straight years and forgets to mention that lebron didn't make the playoffs in his first year while Michael never failed to make the playoffs during his bulls career and only failed at Washington when he was age 38-40. Lets not forget the fact that Lebron has never played against a team the calibre of those Celtics or pistons ever in his career or the fact Detroit made up a set of rules specifically for MJ. Lets gloss over the fact that MJ put 63 on Larry in a losing effort. Then lets gloss over the fact that Michael took the pistons down in their prime as the defending champions and continue to say that he never beat anybody in their prime. The only thing that matters is 6/6 in the finals, 6 finals MVP's, Higher point scoring average, defensive player of the year, 10x scoring champ and an NCAA championship. MJ did this all during a period in which the league was at it's strongest period vs the powder puff league of today in which MJ's stats averages would be significantly higher.
1 bet 1.4 ppg will come into discussion eventually , if they sit across for long . Because that guy Skip is irritating when he talks about LBJ , some facts & he treats them as gospel as if nobody can ever change/redeem them
Skip would be like any other Jordantard. "None of that matters, all that matters is what Jordan has done, it doesn't matter that he didn't get past the first round without Pippen let alone win without him." They just focus on his positives and disregard his short comings.
LilPrince Killa in my opinion playing against Larrys Celtics and magics lakers or the bad boy Pistons and not winning a series against them with no help is not a surprise. With teams like that tell me if Lebron would even make the playoffs within his first three years in the NBA.
Nothing that he said isn't true, but these are the same arguments Lebron fans have been using for a while now and they leave out a lot of context. You can't blame a 20-something year old Jordan for not being able to get past a 59 win Bucks team and the Bird-led Celtics dynasty in the first round, when Jordan didn't have another all-star caliber player alongside him, in the same way that you can't blame Lebron for losing to the Warriors and Spurs in his prime when his teammates didn't show up. And you can't look at one game (55 at the Garden) to say that Jordan was back to normal and so he shouldn't have lost to Shaq and Penny in 1995. Because anyone who actually knows basketball clearly understands that he was not back to normal- right before he retired, Jordan was averaging 41 8 and 6 in the Finals. In 1995, he was averaging less than 30 pts a game while shooting over 5% below his career average, and Nick wants to tell me Jordan was his same old self after two years of baseball? I call BS on that. People like Colin, Nick (both pro-Lebron), and Skip Bayless (anti-Lebron, pro-MJ) are so biased that things they present as "facts", while usually true, cover up a lot of the reality. And because most sports fans are pretty casual, they take their word for it without a proper understanding of basketball history
It's not Lebrons fault MJ played baseball, whether he was rusty or not the GOAT chose to do that. Also that Suns team in '93 was weak defensively. I don't think that it is overwhelmingly probable LBJ surpasses MJ like nick says, but it is definitely Possible, what if he sweeps this years warriors in the finals while dropping 35-10-10, obviously It's not likely but if something like that were to happen these last 2 years would be a major point on the LBJ side. I would say at this point he has a 30% chance of surpassing MJ depending on his jump shots consistency.
@Timo Cruz MJ playing baseball has nothing to do with Lebron- I was simply highlighting what actually happened with the rust caused by the 2-year layoff in order to counter Nick Wright's absolutely incorrect point that Jordan was the same in 1994-5 because the stats show he clearly wasn't. I think most reasonable fans agree that it's certainly possible, but definitely not "overwhelmingly probable" that Lebron surpasses MJ. Imo, however, it's really hard for Lebron to definitively surpass him- being considered his equal is more feasible. The reason is this- even if we assume that Lebron continues to rack up the volume numbers (the per game and advanced numbers will always slightly favor MJ, especially as Lebron exits his prime), and that he comes close to or ties MJ's accolades, i.e. rings, MVPs, etc, we could simply argue that it took Lebron more time to do everything that MJ did in just 13 seasons. It's the Kareem situation all over again. Kareem has more career points than Jordan, has the same number of rings and even one more MVP, but we still consider Jordan the greatest because in addition to his superior advanced metrics it took him fewer seasons to pretty much match Kareem's resume. Lebron's volume numbers may be enough for his fans to claim "GOAT", but we need to see more from him these next few years. Excited to see what happens.
All Nick does it speak facts. Everything Jordan did is looked at in the most positive light possible. Everything LeBron does is micro-analyzed and dissected and criticized to make look worse. Like it or not at the same age, he has done more, significantly more than Jordan. Not saying he can for sure pass Jordan but he will go down too 3 conservatively probably top 2. Only time will tell though
Age is a ridiculous comparison point between the two. Compare them at the same number of seasons as a professional. MJs 6 for 6 also is an insane achievement that elevates him. Not cracking under great scrutiny and playing great teams in the Finals is the ultimate test. I love Lebron, he is top 3-4 all time but Jordan remains on another level for now.
Patrick Harrison You're wrong because Jordan also had 3 years to develop in college and thus was able to come more ready to accomplish. If you wait three years after LeBron came in and compared their seasons then LeBron still comes out on top. MJ's 6 for 6 is the most overrated stat of his career. Why? Because he lost three times in the first round. Because he never played great teams in the Finals. Nobody he played against in the NBA Finals compares to the Spurs, or thr Warriors, even the 2012 Thunder LeBron played who featured KD, Russ, Harden, Ibaka etc that absolutely ran San Antonio off the floor and almost ended the Spurs run before the Harden trade.
3 years to develop? Lebron James is 14 seasons in. Take away his first 3. and his average PPG is 27.2 Which Is not "on top" of Michael Jordan with 30.9 with 11 seasons in at age 32. surely LBJ would average more points assists and rebounds At age 32? No.... They have the same amount of rings. Same amount of MVPs. The difference isn't very significant at all. But I would not say LBJ comes out on top. You can Cherry pick stats to go either way eg. MJ averages more points and steals. Lebron averages more assists and rebounds. Largely to do with the fact they also play different positions and are completely different players. Volume wise LBJ will end up with more everything than MJ because he played more games, started younger, no serious injuries. But just simply not as efficient as Michael. Rather than comparing them now look what Lebron james has to go and do in order to be the goat. By this time onwards Michael Jordan went and won 3 in a row averaged 30.4ppg/ 29.6ppg/ 28.7ppg (Lebron James will not do that. Not to mention the play off averages he set he also will not do) He also went on to average 38.1 minutes per game (another thing lebron james will not do because he complains about minutes played already) Michael also played ALL 82 games and started all of them (another thing lebron will not do because he can't) So when people actually say at 31 LBJ isn't far off MJ of course they aren't... they had accomplished around the same because they're both great players. But what makes Michael the goat is he carried on from this point on. 10 scoring titles, 6 from 6. Thats pretty unreal.
22 ppg on 36% FG and 20% FT with 5.8 TOs per game and letting a 24 year old TP score 25 ppg on 57% from the field and 57% from deep is AWFUL. He took the FOURTH best defense in the league to the Finals while playing the weakest in-conference competition since the 1987 Lakers. Just stop
354gangsta Yeah funny since lebron didnt make his first 2 playoffs. They both had 50 win teams in their 4th season. In the 2nd round Lebron played a 40 win nets team while jordan played the bad boy pistons(who went to the finals)
@@patricknicholsmusic9470 You do realize that the Cavs missed the playoffs with a better record (aside from rookie years) than the Bulls did, right? Jordan made the playoffs... with less wins... than what LeBron missed the playoffs with. You know why? Because the East was trash outside of Boston and Detroit. It's called a top heavy league. Remember the NFC West putting in a 7-9 Division Winner? Yea... like that. When your 8th seed can limp into the playoffs with 32 wins, there is something wrong. And to make it worse, retards praise Jordan like it's an accomplishment lol
MJ is the greatest shooting guard ever and Lebron is the greatest small forward ever. U cant really compare them because their styles are different. MJ is a deadlier offensive player and Lebron is a better all around player. To say MJ is better, u have to be specific. He is better in what way? U just cant say he's better than Lebron when Lebron is a better rebounder and passer, and a more versatile defender also. Lebron can guard D-Rose and then in another series bang in the paint with big David West and Hibbert and snatch 17 rebounds against that front court.
Tunes342 I respect your opinion but Lebron can't guard West but on occasion and it was probably in transition. Years past Lebron couldn't guard 4/5 too big plus they actually had post moves. We call that mouse in the house. It's ok to say but in reality 1/3 he can guard for extended stretches. Really go back look I've never seen Lebron guard Kobe willingly but you have seen Kobe guard Lebron willingly it's just a different mind state that they have.
"..and a more versatile defender also." I'm curious what makes you say that. Jordan has 9 all-defensive first teams and a DPOY award while Lebron has 5 all-defensive first teams and no DPOY. Not that it's all about accolade when it comes to defense (cough Kobe cough), I really don't see how you can call Lebron a more versatile defender. If anything I'd say Jordan has the edge in that category.
Gregory Lee I think he means that lebron is capable of guarding positions 1-5 which Jordan wasn't known for. Plus lebron has a few more years to get that DPOY, at least give him the time.
Lebron being the greatest small forward is up for debate, I would still choose Bird, I've seen Lebron quit on his team, since when are the people who are considered the best quitters, Jim Brown, Jerry Rice, Wayne Gretzky. When Lebron fails he quits, now that he is winning its all good and some people, aka (Tunes342) love him, but true sports people see right though it. Comparing lebron to mike is funny, people will try anything these days.
people just respects his Crazy competitiveness even playing at 40years old. i will consider lebron as great as him when i see him play at 38, schooling the new generation.
finally a media guy said what I've been saying for years. It's not Jordan hate to point these things out, it's being more complete in his narrative and more objective
complete foolishness if u even argue LeBron is in the same league as mj ur ignorant of the game. Jordan never melted n the finals and against way tougher defenses that truly roughed u up. LeBron will never get another ring. he's lost more finals than he's won. he's not an assassin like Mike or kobe. he's a great player who will always be top five at best only
This is true just like we lie about what Joe Montana did and didn't do. He had 3 straight first round exits in the prime of his career, but we all overlook that and say he's 4-0 in superbowls
David Carr My point is people try to point out the imperfections in the players today and try to paint players from other era's as untouchable. They aren't.
Nate Zeller eh. Jordan's actual legacy is pretty untouchable 6 for 6 in finals. His last shot ever for the Bulls was a finals game winner. 5 mvps defensive player of the year 6 finals Mvps had a longer triple double streak than Russ Westbrook and avg 38 his third year in the league. Just like we look at lebrons numbers we gotta look at accolades. Also Lebron just has played longer. Jordan won 6 titles and 5 Mvps in the time it's taken Lebron to win 3 championships b
Nate Zeller No one lies about Jordans History . Him failing against greater teams in his early years it what makes him GREAT! That why people love his game . Lebron had to leave in order to win .. those are facts ! Instead of playing against wade he decided to play with Wade
6-0 never seeing a game 7. best offensive and best defensive player on the court, Never lost when he had home court advantag. In the history of the nba only 1 player has won a title, a scoring title, mvp, fmvp, all nba first team and first team all nvba defense. he did this 4x. levels.
I still have MJ as #1, but Nick is right about how this discussion goes. Also, the idea the Bulls would have won 8 straight is beyond ludicrous. If you want to say they'd have made different moves while he was away if he had been there, that's fine. But then they wouldn't have been in position to make the moves (like bringing in Rodman) that they made when he returned. You can't have it both ways. If you think they would have built the team to win in '94 an '95, you have to accept that would have had significant consequences for their ability to rebuild the team for '96-'98. Not to mention, both 3peats burnt the team out by themselves, but they were going to keep it going for 8 straight years? Please.
People tend to remember guy's accomplishments years after they retire, not their shortcomings. I think in 20 years we're gonna look at the careers of guys like Lebron and Kobe a lot more favorably than we do now and recognize how great they were.
How about this then? Wright talks about how Jordan was eliminated in the first round his first three years but fails to mention that Lebron didn't even MAKE the playoffs his first two seasons. Then in his 3rd season beat a barely over 500 Wizards squad to get eliminated by Detroit in the 2nd round. Wow. The Bulls were eliminated in the first round by three teams (Bucks in '85, Celtics in '86 and '87) that would take that PIstons squad to school.
HenDaRula it's not a great argument. he said Jordan beat the pistons because they got old. their main players weren't even 30 so how is that old? what hurt the pistons and helped the Bulls was the pistons lost key bench players to expansion teams and the league added the flagrant or technical foul rule so the pistons couldn't play dirty anymore.
@@SuperSparrow45 ok and how about you mention that Jordan made the playoffs in his 2nd year with a 30 - 52 record while lebron couldn't make it with a 42- 40 record. talk how extremely weak that era must've been to make it with 30 wins.
"Jordan has 3 first round exits and Lebron has none!!!" MJ lost to the 59 win Bucks his rookie year when they had Defensive Player of the year guard Sidney Moncrief, and then lost to Bird's dynasty Celtics the following 2 seasons. Lebron didnt even make the playoffs until 2006 and when he did, he hit the lottery by getting a laughably weak Wizards team in the first round with no good defenders. "When MJ left the Bulls, they went from 57 wins to 55!!!" What Nick failed to mention is the fact that the Bulls overhauled their entire roster when MJ left to play baseball and brought in 40ppg worth of scoring to replace him. Year 2 of MJ in baseball, the Bulls were 34-31 before MJ came back and when he did, they finished the season 12-3. And we all know what happened the following year. 72-10, all time greatest team. 55 wins to 72 is pretty impactful if you ask me. It's amazing what adding a little context can do to someone's argument, huh Nick?
"Lebron didnt even make the playoffs until 2006" Was 2005 season, but yes technically in 2006. However there is a similar argument to be made against Jordan. Many people disregard that Lebron has already been to more finals than Jordan. Because Lebron lost 4 of them, many people disregard them as meaningless when in fact he has already, at this point, been to one more finals than Jordan did in his entire career and four more than Jordan had at 31. When Lebron is done he could have easily been to 10 finals appreances, that is four more than Jordan managed, regardless if he won or not. And I know the argument that he is in a weak east is there, but that is outside his control, fact is fact and it is something that is being glazed over by almost everyone commenting on this matchup.
***** Had MJ not retired mid prime and then again after 98, he would have at least 2 more finals appearances, maybe another MVP, his stats would be unparalleled and this wouldnt even be a conversation.
Oh LeBron came into the league as an 18 year old, compare to mj who came in after his junior year and being coached by arguably the greatest teacher of basketball in Dean Smith. The cavs improved every year LeBron was there, despite enormous pressure and expectations never before experienced by any athlete , not even Jordan.
Regarding the 2007 Finals, most people rightfully give Lebron a pass for getting swept by Spurs, with multiple hall of famers, and Lebron was young with a weaker squad. If you give Lebron a pass for that in the finals then you have to give MJ a pass for being swept in the first round by the Celtics, with multiple hall of famers, and MJ was young with a weaker squad. MJ couldn’t help that the elite teams were in his conference rather than the west like it was for Lebron. Gotta keep it “consistent” 😂 Also MJ never lost a series where his team was ranked higher seed or the favorite to win. I believe Lebron missed the finals after having a team be the #1 seed two or three times 👀
@@cheyheyway6244 When Lebron left the heat you do know they won 37 games the following season, right? That’s with… Whiteside missing 34 games Goran Drogic missing 56 games Chris Bosh missing 38 games DWade missing 20 games The heat were riddled with injuries and were 2 games from making the playoffs without Lebron. It’s revisionist history to say all his teams just suck when he leaves. And the second CLE team was players he wanted lmboooo. He told them he was not staying unless they traded Wiggins for Kevin Love, he told CLE that they need to give Tristan Thompson and JR smith the brinks truck or he’s out, he told CLE to trade veteran leaders/winners (d wade, d Rose, crowder etc) mid season without giving them a chance to work for young un proven puppies. Lebron has been controlling his teams rosters since leaving CLE the first time he left and only has 4 rings? I can’t imagine the greatest basketball player ever controlling his teams destiny and win the finals so few times 😅
@@therant7411 When Lebron left the Cavs they went from solid contenders to having the biggest record drop off in NBA history.When Lebron left the Heat they went from A Finals team to not making the playoffs and that’s a fact. Your injury excuses are lame af every team gets fatigue and injury after years of grinding it part of the game. When Jordan left the bulls they won 55 games. When Lebron left the Cavs the second time they went from a finals team to the worst in the league. Jordan’s team had virtually no record difference. There are levels to this Lebron in himself is a force that carries his teams to success. He does so much more for his teams than Jordan. Jordan was just apart of a great system with the GOAT coach and a top 5 player in the league helping him out of every series. What happened when Jordan got whopped by an inexperienced expansion team in the playoffs? He got two stars added to his team making a super team. Lebron is the Greatest Basketball player of all time. He is the best in the most skillful era. He also was more efficient than Jordan and a bigger factor to his team’s success.
LeBron is the Brady of the NBA. No matter what they do to prove themselves as the GOAT'S, fans will still say Montana and Jordan are better because of their perfect records in championships
Thorfinn lmao good comparison and even tho I dislike Peyton I don't think either are chokers. Brady cheating 3 too many times so I can't put him with jordan
Baller_Eli naw that’s entirely correct sir. They give MJ & Montana the goat title b/c their degree of difficulty , the Undefeated status on the big stage & the overall total body of work
I will give Lebron this, he's made an impact of a similar scale to MJ and I am pretty sure it was hard for anyone to think that anyone could match that once Jordan had his 2nd retirement. I was definitely not happy to see Curry win unanimous MVP because I think everyone can agree with me that Lebron could literally go to any team in the NBA and not only get that team immediately to the playoffs, but at least a Conference Finals playoff appearance as well over Curry. In other words, Lebron is more an MVP than Curry because (1) If Lebron got hurt, the Cavs would clearly be more hurt by his injury than if the Warriors lost Curry, (2) Lebron can literally play every position in basketball at an All-Star level (granted Curry's size prevents him from doing that), and (3) Lebron has dealt with higher expectations than anyone else in the NBA because he had all eyes on him from Day 1 in the NBA and it's safe to say he's lived up to those high expectations. In summary, I don't think Lebron will ever surpass Jordan, but I do think Lebron will make the most compelling argument for that than anyone else in NBA history once his career is said and done.
And the only reason why he wouldn’t pass MJ has nothing to do with basketball in general but everything MJ is burnt in people minds and they will not let it go!! Ever!!
Ashley 3187 it’s a team sport not individual head to head match ups lol. It’s hard finding the footage when Jordan got beat in 95 and don’t say he was rusty
Why people always brought those two comments : 1) MJ would have won 8 rings in a row? Chicago Bulls lost Horace Grant to the Orlando Magic. Who Chicago had in 1995 to stop Shaquille O'Neal & Horace Grant? Nobody. And Jordan committed two clutch turnovers in the elimination game in 1995 versus Orlando. Once again, Jerry Reinsdorf signed Rodman in 1996. They beat Orlando. No Rodman's rebounding or defensive anchor, no ring. 2) MJ never missed the playoffs. LeBron James wasn't on the race his first two years... Chicago Bulls made the playoffs with those records : * 38-44 in 1985; * 30-52 in 1986. The East wasn't as stacked as people want you to believe.
Kingkai Sauce People never love thruth. The fans were acting the same way back in the 1980s. "Jordan would'nt survived back in the days"... Bla bla bla. "WILT WOULD destroyed him" We're seeing the same phenomenon 30 years later. We haven't changed from the last 30 years!
Dave Toussaint IkR... It's like saying Curry isn't that great of a shooter, you'd have to be A. A Hater Or B. Don't watch basketball Truth is truth.. I would say Lbj is either = or Greater.. Mj wouldn't won that much with out Sottie or Rod, facts.. Lbj wouldn't won that much with out others showing up and playing great too.
Such a WEAK argument, as if the Bulls wouldn't have made any moves, like saying the Warriors would never beat the Cavs if they didnt get Durant, as if that is the only move they could have made.
Tony Roca Rewatch the 1996 series versus Orlando and Seattle. When MJ and the Bulls had a bad shooting night. Who was there to collect the offensive rebounds? Dennis Rodman. He had many games in those two series where he had at least 8 offensive rebounds. Versus Seattle, Rodman gathered 6.8 offensive rebounds per game from game 1 to 6! Shaquille O'Neal shot only 38% when guarded by Rodman. So, yes. Without Rodman, no ring in 1996. That's not an argument, that's a fact enforced by Reinsdorf & Phil Jackson. You won as a team. Jordan never got out of the first round without a solid cast around him. That's normal. It's 5 vs 5!
i hate how everyone treats jordan like he's a God or something untouchable... Kobe was just as good as MJ in parts of his career lebron is on the road of the greatest basketball player ever.
MJ elevated basketball to a global game. He is one of the great sportspeople of all time in any sport. Kobe isnt close Im sorry, go to europe, go to asia and youll see everyone holds Jordan at the top.
lol read my comment you idiot i said kobe in parts was just as good... and lebron is on the road to greatness. im just saying MJ is not a Basketball God and if he played in this era he would of been hated more than Lebron is now plus if he was a god he would of won against the magic. I've been watching basketball ever since i can since 01 okay so yeah i might be a tad biased.
Rayzajw yea but every team he goes to a team has to be built around him what if ray Allen never signed with the heat what love or smith never came to the cavs his team's make not the other way because if it wasn't for Kyrie and Ray LeBron would be 1-6 not 3-4 Jordan actually hit the big shot for his team
Everybody brings up Michael Jordan's first round exits but they never acknowledge that he was facing Larry bird and the Celtics and Lebron was facing the Washington wizards led by Gilbert arenas
The point is people knock Lebron because he's lost in the finals while Michael has never lost in the finals. Michael being undefeated in the finals shouldn't be an argument for Michael because he couldn't even get to the finals as many times as Lebron already has. The fact that he lost so many times in the first round takes the lore away from that 6-0 finals stat
bringing up competition is whack. it's the NBA. playoffs at that.anybody liable to get beat. can't blame LeBron for being so dominate since he touched the league from high school
the Pistons were around the same age as MJ in 91. Lebron didn't make the playoffs in his first two years in the league. MJ didn't have any help versus the Celtics.
@@shanecurtis1974 what facts? Isiah and Dennis Rodman is one year older than MJ. Mark Aguirre is two years older than MJ. Dumars is one year younger than MJ. Salley is two years younger than MJ. MJ didn't have any help against the Celtics. That was his 2nd and 3rd year in the league. As I said, Lebron didn't even make the playoffs in his first two years in the league.
Jordan #1 , lebron #2 ... no dispute, if bron beats the Warriors this year and wins finals mvp, there is a compelling argument that they are equals. #nuffsaid , let's move on from this topic
I would agree if Lebron career ended after this year, and he goes to do something else. If he sticks around he could surpass Jordan as player but never the narrative.
rashawn thompson I think if he threepeats with this cavs team I'll believe he has a chance...but I agree that it's talked about too much...I'm not ready to put him at number 1...he has to do it...Idk why people are counting out the warriors. This warriors team is still REALLY good and that series could go either way
What's interesting is Jordan was back for only 15 games. He came back the next year , played a full year & Orlando was better at 60 wins & welp...swept in 4!!! & Shaq headed out to LA (thank God) This story might have carried more weight if he had not came back the way he did & ran off another 3!
Bilal Ali so you should gonna leave out the fact they the bulls upgraded the team. This is the point Nick was making, ppl omit when discussing anything unfavorable with MJ
I remember when Jordan came into the league. The knock against him was he couldn't get by Bird, which was absolutely right. Jordan benefited from league expansion that put 6 New teams in the league in the1990s. Good, but no Wilt,Magic, Dr. J, or several others I would put in front of him.
Yeah why would people forgot about how good Magic, Bird, Wilt are? Wilt even said it in front of MJ when they are taking about who is the best and most dominate, Wilt told MJ that the NBA changed the rules so he can't dominate while the NBA changed rules so MJ can dominate, you know what MJ's response is? nothing, Nada, Zip cause its true and he knows he will not hold a candle to Wilt if they clash.
@@jabe9672 Bro Michael Jordan was literally in the league for three years during Boston's prime and the Bulls were already better than the Celtics by his 4th year. Lebron didnt even make the playoffs his first two years. Stop the BS
@@cartershane339that’s a lie lol. They tied 3-3 in the regular season. The bulls just was able to avoid the Celtics in the first round in 1988. Y’all think if Jordan had a good team earlier on like magic bird and IT he would t have beaten them or giving them a good run lol? And hay y’all don’t bring up the Olympics lol. Jordan literally torch the nba all stars IT Bird Magic etc lol. The man went 9-0 before even playing for the bulls in the Olympics
Bruh, Nick Wright is one of the most INSANELY biased "analysts" on TV today for sports. Dude goes out of his way to constantly move the goalposts to glorify LeBron's accomplishments, while downplaying Jordan's. He's a massive hypocrite.
My boy had the best thing to say about Jordan’s career. It’s like cake mix, you don’t gotta add nothing to it to make it better. When people try to change the narrative of his story it actually hurts his story.
To those of you who are saying that the Bulls swept the Magic in the ECF the following year are discrediting the fact that the Bulls acquired Ron Harper, a tall point guard and elite defender to help MJ and Scottie guard Penny and also acquired Dennis Rodman to help out with guarding Shaq.
everytime people point flaws in jordan, you can point 2 flaws in lebron. For instance, Lebron couldn't beat the celtics till pierce kd and allen were around 34.
Are you talking about the 56 win Celtics team or some old team that shouldn't have been in the playoffs? Because I'm confused there, seeing as they were still regarded as the team to beat even when their stars were "old"
Lol when LeBron finally beat the Big 3, the Celtics were the defending eastern champions and were a game away from being the defending champs , so don't try to minimize the accomplishment
LeBron quit against the Celtics in 2010, put up 22, 15, & 27 games 4-6 after getting up 2-1. Lebron had the worst choke job of all time in 2011 and got outplayed by Jason Terry. Lebron was upstaged in 2014 finals, games 3-5 Kawhi was the best player on floor and it wasn't close, which was a big reason MIA lost by a finals RECORD margin. These are some nasty stains on his resume and Nick Wright is trying to tear down MJ to make them look comparable.
Jordan never flopped, never left a game for cramps, never lost in the finals, he won a 3 peat with one all star and another one with two all stars, didn't lost two finals playing alongside Ray Allen, D Wade and Chris bosh, Jordan lost the playoffs playing with bad teammates (some of them drug addicts) against some of the best teams ever (Celtics, Piston) while having outstanding performances before getting any help, and finally Jordan played hardcore defense while LeBron doesn't play defense at all. Oh yeah but LeBron is the goat, all hail the King of all time basketball.
Jordans 2 three-peat Bulls team were better than Lebron's early Cleveland and the championship Cleveland team. it's very funny you give Jordan excuses for losing in his early years but Jordan stans use that against Lebron. And bringing up "never flopping", "never missing games" just shows you have no real arguments to use. Jordan 1-9 in the playoffs without his saviour Scottie Pippen, that says a lot.
Mobius The Jordan's 91-93 teammates aren't no way as good as Love and Irving. And from 96 to 98 Rodman and Pippen didn't bring as much help to Jordan as Wade, Allen and Bosh brought to Lebron. And he still lost two finals with them
Eita Masaki Man Skip is so annoying but I don't watch him anymore as I get too angry. But tbh all these guys have an agenda to keep them relevant and for people to talk about them. If Skip didn't diss Lebron then he would be no way near as big
I have listened to these arguments a lot, I feel obliged to take my time and write. Let me dismantle them one by one: 1 Pistons got old and this is why Jordan beat them - Lie. Their leaders, Isiah Thomas was 30 and Joe Dumars was 28 or 29 at that time. Last time I checked these are prime years for NBA players, stop this lie Nick! In fact, got old argument is more suitable for lebron vs celtics. Celitcs were past their prime, way over 30 when Lebron outmatched them already in Miami. Jordan never backed down in the face of earlier defeats and ran to another team. He got his Championship with the Bulls unlike Lebron. I dont blame Lebron for leaving but when you are having GOAT conversation that matters a lot, I am sorry. 2. Argument that Lakers were average in 91 is a joke. Magic was probably younger than Lebron is now. Magic never averaged crazy points, he has career 17 points per game or so and still won championships and led Lakers, he was a play maker. And they were much more of a threat than Mavericks in 2011 to say the least. They did not emerge from the west by a lottery mind you, they won it. And Jordan beat them 4-1, not seven games or something. 3. You are overblowing the defeat to Orlando in 95 way out of context. Jordan played something like 20 games before playoffs? he returned in the end of the regular season in 94 and the team has not gelled well yet. Want proof that it is needed? Check this year's Lebron team the Cavs. They played horribly (despite having as you claim the greatest ever and a force multiplyer) in the beginning of the season and you were crying that 'this is the worst Lebron team since 2007' and look now, they are playing very well. Bulls lost to Orlando in 6 games in the second round in 95. They met them again next year and what? Bulls swept the same Orlando in the playoffs. Dont tell me they had Rodman. losing in 6 and then sweeping them is a huge difference to be attributed just to one Denis Rodman. 4. True, Miami struggled in 2015 but they re-adapted and went to playoffs in 2016 without Lebron and beat Charlotte. Then they lost to Toronto in the second round in 7 games mainly because Bosh got injured. 5. I will add another argument sometimes used: Jordan beat Utah with old Malone and Stockton (Malone is a second highest scorer in NBA history folks!). Has anybody asked how old was Jordan in those years? He was the same age as them! Jordan at 35 led a team to a championship, singlehandedly closed out game 6 and the championship in 98, videos are all over youtube please watch. I have not seen anything remotely similar from Lebron. MJ rose time and again in the face of challenges and never shied away and choked he did this at 35 again. Wade is now 35 and you say he can no longer be a valuable starter and lead a franchise. Lebron is soon to be 33 and still going strong but Jordan never had this contemporary medical means and methods and equipment, all these chemicals Lebron sits on, all this research and findings to maximize his physical performance. He did it in the ninties! Amazing thing is that despite all this, Jordan had a higher vertical than Lebron! 6. And the biggest thing. Nick, you often say that we ignore Jordan's shortcomings since he has long retired but we scrutinize Lebron because he is here playing now. The fact that MJ has retired long ago does not serve him well, its the contrary, many people do not even remember him play. Lebron is here in front of our eyes producing headline plays and games and reminding us of his greatness on regular bases, while Jordan has no such possibility and many of his great plays are being forgotten. If lebron retires with what he has now, the GOAT talk will be over before you can blink. Him being around and still making headlines is the reason the conversation is still going. Bottom line: Jordan is the GOAT. Can Lebron pass him? Probably yes, but he has to do much more.
Spot on. I think people still forget how gun shy LeBron was early on in his career too when it came to taking the last shot. And why is he sleeping on the Celtics like Kevin McHale wasn’t playing on that team too. He was also top 50. As if LeBron would have beaten them.
Mac Turner I’d argue the addition of Kevin Durant in 2017 is the better GS team than the 73 win team. If LeBron can somehow pull this out then you win the argument.
I appreciate Nick's point about people overlooking MJ's early postseason performances, but the only reason people do that is because Jordan went 6 for 6. He didn't lose when it mattered the most. He didn't even let any Finals series go to game 7. He got the MVPs all 6 times. Unless Lebron gets 7 chips and 7 Finals MVPs, I don't want to hear it. Lebron won 2 chips by joining two of the best players in his conference. In that 2011 Finals, he was complete garbage. If the Heat managed to win that series, the Finals MVP would have gone to Wade. The second year, they went against a talented team in OKC that was still wet-behind-the-ears. So if you want to throw shade on Jordan's competition, don't turn a blind eye to Lebron's. Side note: When Lebron left the Heat, they missed the playoffs because Bosh went down with his blood clot issues and Wade missed 20 games. Even then, they only missed the playoffs by a few games.
Well said, it's nice to see someone with a more complete perspective! Let's not forget Lebron did not even make the playoffs until season 3. Also Mj joined the Bulls off a 27 win season so they had no good players, then they faced a 59 win Bucks and the 86 Celtics were a top 5 of all time team! Comparing eras that 86 Celtics team was as good as the 2015 GSW, imagine Lebron facing GSW in round one with no support players - he'd get swept too!!!
MJ could only make it to six finals and didn't had teams like today's GSW, the 80's celtics or lakers or even the pistons from 30 years ago. He was a great player, but LeBron is better period.
@Stephen Pamphile You do realize that Nick was making that very point as a COUNTER-ARGUMENT to everything you just said? He begins w/ making the point that everyone attacks Lebron for his early career failings, including your point regarding him losing to the Mavs. Since then he's been absolutely incredible; not MJ incredible, but Nicks point is: why is lbj judged more for his early failings than his later success while MJ is judged only on his success and not his failings. These are facts so how you figure he's throwing shade is beyond me. The irony of your who argument is ABSOLUTELY NO ONE turns a blind eye to Lebron's failings
Same logic applies to LeBron, who has failed to win 5 times already, and he hasn't retired and come back to a sport after not playing it for nearly 2 seasons (game or practice).
ndleinahaystack they didn't just get Rodman, but Kukoc and Kerr also became much more efficient players by moving to the bench. Kukoc was third on the team in scoring and won sixth man of the year and Steve Kerr could move from starting PF to bench SG
100% correct. Jordan is the greatest basketball player of all time, and probably will be even when Lebron retires. But they hype him up way too much to be greater than he actually is. He's the greatest player, but he is not perfect
Boogie Cousins #MakeNBAFairAgain I'm not so sure. The problem is that the media has been trying to create the next Jordan since before he even retired from the bulls. So they've kept comparing players to him. Think about it. Grant Hill, Kobe, Lebron, etc. I don't think he's overrated as much as other NBA legends are underrated. The top 5 players of all time were just so far above the competition that it's crazy. Lebron will be underrated in the next 20 years by people who never saw him play.
Boogie Cousins #MakeNBAFairAgain I agree but every record is made to be broken. Jordan is like the Bruce Lee of basketball because ppl think there is absolutely no one else on earth that can do what they did and do it better n I'm a die hard Jordan fan for life
Henry Street - jordan is the greatest because of how he got his stats, sure he had pippen who was a great team player but he wasn't a closer like how jordan was. jordan won 6 rings in style with his amazing offensive techniques that players til this day are trying to mimic. jordan at 38 scored 50. he was all finesse and always put on a show with his flashy moves, I was always entertained. lebron does not have that in him. there may be another player out there to surpass jordan but it's not lebron
Out of all the teams jordan faced while winning championships, the only team he faced that was good was the Orlando Magic led by Shaq and Penny Hardaway and he lost. Imagine what the San Antonio Spurs led by coach Pop and the warriors would have done to him.
Utkarsh Dave Sahni I didn’t know that the 60+ win Jazz with MVP Malone and Stockton, the 64 win Sonics with Payton, Kemp, Schrempf, and Hawkins, and teams led by MVP Magic, MVP Barkley, Clyde Drexler, and 2 time defending champion pistons weren’t good
Pop would have shut him and his iso ball down. In this era he would be like a less skilled Harden getting shut down by 6'8 wings like the Klaw or Paul George or even a large ball handlers like Ben Simmons in the playoffs.
PREACH. Getting to the Finals and losing is not worse than not making the Finals, kids. That's like saying that getting a silver medal is worse than not medaling.
Poochie Collins yes it is. Because when your team sucks you get booted. Lebrons teams lose the finals by getting outplayed. Jordan outplayed the competition while his team got outplayed. Learn something.
+Gmoney Mozard : wow, my medal analogy went right over your head. Jordan's losses in the first round: 3. LeBron: 0. Jordan got outplayed a lot, didn't he? "Learn something."
Poochie Collins if Lebron made a much bigger difference to his team then why do his teams collapse when they need him? A case could be made that pippen is an all time great because of MJ. The structure around MJ was purely support. Lebron has never created a dynamic Jordan did with pippen and never will. He's too busy jumping around the league trying to win championships so people like you can pretend he can be compared to Jordan. Go look up the numbers son. Lebron has played in more playoff games with less competition and lost more and has worse numbers. Lebron has played more regular season minutes than Jordan and will have played Jordan's whole career in games played this season and has worse numbers. Stop it. That's black and white. You can't debate these things. Jordan in the goat, Lebron is a great player. And that's it. Stop overhyping him.
@@imsljr420 he left out alot & he lied. Those Pistons hadn't even hit 30 yet as far as thier 3 all-stars. And then he chooses not to acknowledge the teams that had better records with hall of fame coaches like Pat Riley & an Orlando Magic team who on paper had a double digit starting 5 , younger , won 60 games & got swept by them in thier 30s fresh off a finals appearance. So much more too
Kobe's and Jordan's fans are the easiest to Trigger...especially Kobe fans who witness the last 8 years of his career and never seen a minute of Jordan play.
I'll agree with Nick that LeBron had more of an impact on his team in terms of overall contribution than MJ because of how he can play 4 positions due to his size and how much the cavs struggle without him. Nonetheless, once MJ figured it all out, he was unstoppable in the playoffs!
Once he figured it out? He played with the most stacked team that's ever been established from coach to bench and all the competition was either in his team or had bag boys on their team. Jordan never faced competition like shaq, that's why he had to get Rodman. Had he never got Rodman, Jordan just has 3 rings and probably retired after losing to the magic
Well, lebron has had to face the 64 win Piston with the best record and defense in the league, the 66 win Celtics with again the best record and defense in the league, the 62 win Bulls with the best record and defense in the besides the MVP in a prime D-Rose. I mean sure the last 3 years the east was weak, but the you seriously mentioned the heat and the pacers as part of your argument?? The 2013/14 pacers are better than the 98 pacers the bulls faced, and the 09 Magic with the 3x DPOY prime Howard is a bit better than the mid 90s heat team. Just because one team is from 20 years ago you mentioning then in an argument doesn't automatically makes then better than a team from 6 years ago. The KG, Pierce, Allen and Rondo Celtics, the mid 2000s pistons and the 10/11 and 11/12 bulls are better than any 90s eastern conference squad excludind the bulls of course, maybe only Shaq's Magic with Penny, D-Scott and Nick Anderson were as good as the bulls, but even then they were certainly worse than the 2000s celtics and pistons. So please just stop with the flat out ignorance man, what makes the 90s knicks better than the late 2000s Magic huh?? Looking player by player and by the metrics, the magic were actually the better and deeper team, yet you mention the Knicks as if it would enforce your point. So I could just say lebron has faced the celtics, the magic, the pistons, the pacers and the bulls, who combined are much better than the ones you mentioned. Bare in mind that for me MJ is the GOAT man, but you have to keep objectivity
Howard's magic tam is better than the Heat with Mourning Hardaway and Mashburn ? Lmfao .... 98 pacers would take a dumb on the 2013/2014 pacers......the "great" Pistons team Lebron beat in 07 won 53 games in the regular season and were washed up ....the Celtics teams he beat were washed up plus he missed the playoffs twice
By the way Nick and Colin, you say that when MJ played, the talent wasn't as great. Malone, Stockton, Barkley, Clyde, Magic, Bird, O'Neal, Thomas are 8 of the top 50 Greatest players of all time, so out of a possible 27 teams back then, 8 teams had 1 of the 50 greatest, the others had names such as, Ewing, Olajuwon, Robinson, Dominique Wilkins, Reggie miller, Alonzo Mourning. Who does lebron play against today who even resembles those guys, Dwight 'I've hurt my back' Howard, Demarcus cousins, Tiago splitter. Jordan played against better competition. The only ones who deserve a mention as formidable foes for Lebron are Durant, Westbrook, Lillard, curry and potentially Klay Thompson. Other than that, that's it, and none of these guys other that Durant and Westbrook could've played against the physical nature of the NBA in Jordan's era, so your argument is very very very flawed. When analysing, for future arguments, fake everything into consideration you stupid losers.
MJ had a perfect team!!.. People don't want to embrace that fact. MJ would not be winning in Lebron's place because he did not do it in his own career in similar circumstance..MJ won when he had a GREAT TEAM!!!
@@AD-eq4kn mj never took a team like lebrons 07 cavs to a finals , plain and simple. Jordan got bounced in the first round with those kind of rosters, or didn’t make the playoffs at all.
😂😂😂😂 Are you serious, Nick? Nick: The Pistons got old? - Well how did they get to the ECF that year? Did they cheat? Watch the documentary. Dumars said (on camera): "There was this fire in their eyes! Right then we knew we couldn't stop 'em!" Fact! Nick: "Let's compare MJ and LeBron early in their careeers!" - Aren't you forgetting, Nick, that in the 80s and 90s the league was FILLED with talent and superstars (Kareem, Hakeem, Magic, Worthy etc.)? How many superstars were there at the beginning of LeBron's career, except Kobe? How many Birds, Magics,Kareems and Bad Boys were there exactly during that period of time.... (I'll wait!) Nick: "MJ lost to Bird's Celtics!" - Ehm, Have you ever seen 1 player beat 3 players, 1 superstar beat 3? Bird, McHale, Parish vs. MJ? Nick: ".…the Lakers weren't the Showtime Lakers...." - How did they get to the NBA Finals that year? They beat every team in the WC that year, including the Trailblazers, who were on fire that year! Nick: " When Jordan left the Bulls went from 57 team to a 55 team!!" - DID THEY WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP WITHOUT MJ? MJ left -> Bulls didn't win a championship. MJ returned and the next season -> the Bulls win a 3-peat AGAIN! You're just going to 'forget to mention' that part, huh? 😂😂😂😂 And MJ took TWO 3-peats with 2 completely different teams (him and Scottie aside!) FACTS! 😌 Yeah, MJ got beat by Penny and Shaq in '95 and what did he do the next season after that and he was fit and trained and got back in his rhythm? That's right, Nick, MJ and the Bulls SWEPT them and the Magic never recovered! Shaw & Penny were the new dynamic duo, but after MJ's return they couldn't beat MJ and Scottie.... FACTS! Come on now! If you're going to yell out: "FACTS!", you have to show ALL facts, not just a few selective facts which back up your tiny arguments!!
I LOOOOOVE Lebron. Kobe too. I'll even say that Lebron has passed Kobe in my all-time ranks. But Nick made me laugh when he talked about Jordan never defeating Bird in the playoffs. But, as always, they fail to mention that MJ has NEVER missed the playoffs in his entire career. ENTIRE career. Lebron & Kobe can't say that.
MJ made the playoffs his first 3 seasons by going 38-44, 30-52 and 40-42, I don't think that's the kind of argument you should be using in his favor LOL. Lebron missed the playofs twice when he was 19 and 20 years old by going 35-47 and 42-40,a better wiin ing pct than MJ's combined 3 first seasons at ages 21,22 and 23. It's just that in the 80s the league had really really poor depth (it has 2 maybe 3 really strong teams but the rest was pure garbage, not even medium level, it was the elite then the bad teams, there were very few good but not great squads, fortunately it started to chance in the 90s)
Michael Lane Jordan had college experience LeBron was fresh outta High school if Jordan was he would not have made the playoff .I also noticed you said he never missed the playoff well when he did get there from out of college he got swept lebron got there his 3rd year and did not get swept he actually advanced
***** No doubt about that. Great point. Lebron is THE most gifted athlete I've EVER seen. And I've been following the game almost 50 years. You made a great point!
When I was a kid, living in Orlando, there was a Jordan Poster up at our local skating rink. No other player ever did that. Jordan's Bulls made basketball more famous. People watched the dunk contest for Jordan. He made player shoes a thing. I had Shaq's shoe in middle school. No other retired player has a shoe on the market. Why did Lebron even take 23? He can try to be the next Jordan, but nobody can replace the original.
Nick is also wrong on the greatest 5-year run in basketball history. Magic between 84 and 88 (1 MVP, 3 titles, 5 finals, 1 finals MVP) Moses between 79 and 83 (3 MVP, 1 title, 2 finals, 1 finals MVP) Jordan between 89 and 93 (2 MVP, 3 titles, 3 finals, 3 finals MVP) Shaq between 99 and 03 (1 MVP, 3 titles, 3 finals, 3 finals MVP) Also, Kobe between 06 and 2010 (1 MVP, 2 titles, 3 finals, 2 finals MVP)
Horace and Rodman both were all defensive team players during the bulls championship years, Rodman led the league in rebouding and offensive rebouding the 3 years he was in Chicago and Pippen made the all defensive team every year from 91 to 98. MJ's, bird's and magic's teammates have combined to make 33 all defensive teams while playing with then, lebron's teammates have combined to make 1, and that was Varejão who made the all defense second team in 09/10 as a reserve. See I think MJ is the goat, but let's be clear, he, Magic and Bird all played with great 2 way players, yes lebron has had great teammates (even thought overall not as great as bird, magic or jordan) but neither Kyrie, Love, Bosh or a 2011-14 wade were elite defensively (bosh was pretty good thought), and althought MJ was a beast on defense as well, in his playoff runs lebron has had to play more defense than any of those 3 at any year. Also, of all those guys, lebron has faced the most superstars, especially at his own position, MJ only faced 1 top 10 SG of all time in Drextler (for example 4 of the top 10 played in lebron's era in Kobe, Wade, AI and Allen, while harden will probably end up as a top 10 SG as well) and lebron to win his first championship had to face in the same postseason Melo, the Granger/PG combo, Pierce and Durant; he also faces Kawhi (KD and pierce are top 10 SFs ever, Melo is top 15 while Kawhi has a chance to be top 15 or even top 10). MJ, Bird and Magic all played with guys that had won DPOY, they've always had much better 2 way players as teammates, so I do give lebron extra credit there
When Magic was a rookie, he was one of the players that made it possible for the Lakers to grab the championship trophy. When Bird was entered the NBA he was one of those who led Celtics from a 29-53 in the previous season to a 61-21. He then led Celtics to a championship a year later. Jordan wasn't like that. Jordan and the Bulls shone only when the great 80's teams were old and worn and most of the great team leaders like Erving, Jabar, Magic, Walton were gone and Bird, Thomas, Ewing were old.
Yall act like Jordan didn't have to go up against any greats. Barkley, Olajuan, Ewing, Stocton/ Maolne, David Robinson, etc. And the game was Waaaaay harder and more physical back then.
@@microb20 He did when those guys were at their prime Jordan was having a hard time keeping up the Bulls with them. When these guys were old on the verge of retirement in the 90's that is when Jordan and the Bulls showed up. That is fact. The Bulls had their first championship during the 90's. Deal with it.
When the elite teams and players where around in 80s bulls did nothing till they got old and washed up. Look at the teams he played against in finals would you call those teams elite?
@@bibo5854 They had suffered injuries yes but they were still a top team in the league. You don't call a team like that "average" or "mediocore". They weren't the same Pistons from their best years but by that logic, the Celtics in 2011 when Lebron finally beat them should also be classified as such.
@@Cooljoshua567 The celtics were classified as such lmao. I still have the newspaper on how most people predicted that the bulls were gonna beat the pistons in 5. No one thought the pistons were good anymore. They werent even reffered to as the bad boys. And the reason I say all this is because so many people today try to say that jordan single handedly beat the prime bad boy pistons when in fact they were a team full of injuries and personal problems. People value lebrons championship vs the warriors more than they do vs the spurs because, 1 the warriors were 73-9 and 2, because they were in their primes. The spurs were old. Its like me saying Lebron single handedly beat a prime spurs team with four hall of famers and the greatest head coach of all time. We all know thats wrong though.(Because three hall of famers were old and 1 hall of famer was to young).
@@bibo5854 Okay, that's fair. I just don't like how Nick Wright is trying to downplay all of Jordan's winning's but then ignoring that some of Lebron's wins come from that very same line of thinking.
He is the only player in NBA history to lead all players in all five categories for an entire playoff series" I wonder who did this?????????????????????? Hmmmm?
Overall, he was the team leader in 11 major categories. Only Oscar Robertson approached such dizzying heights in 1962, when he averaged a triple-double -- 30.8 points, 12.5 rebounds, 11.4 assists -- in a league that boasted more 6-foot guards than 7-foot centers. 86- 87 mj stop the madness these are known facts
While I think MJ is still the goat, we do lie or conveniently forget his short comings while we highlight lebron's flaws and try to discredit him
S no pls read other comments
Nigel Cooper we don't.
What short comings do we deny? Everyone knows he didn't trust his teammates when he first came in the league because he had trust issues and they were not that good. I don't think anyone denies that Jordan couldn't get past the Celtics or the Pistons. Celtics being one of the best teams ever assembled. Jordan didn't past the Pistons until the Bulls got Scottie Pippen and he got closer to his prime. Then the Bulls won 3 straight. Jordan retires for a year and half. Comes back shows flashes of his old self. Got beat and outplayed by a better them Orlando that year. Comes back, win 3 straight titles again. Retired. Came back at 38 with the Wizards. Wasn't the same player. Would show flashes every once in awhile. Still the GOAT. Don't see where people deny his flaws. I think people are too busy forgetting Jordan's greatness. Lebron is and will go down as one of the greatest players of all time but not the GOAT.
Because MJ doesn't have Flaws in the finals
LEBRON BEAT DURANT AND WESTBROOKE,DUNCAN AND POPOVICH,THEN A 73 WIN GS TELL WHAT GREAT TEAMS THE BULLS BEAT BULLS NEVER FACED AN INTACT TEAM THAT HAD ALREADY WON A CHAMPIOSHIP
Nick Wright vs Skip Bayless same network lets go
Andréas Remis Vegan Lifestyle yes
Skip doesn't really come with any real good backup for what he says. He just says outrageous things out of his hatred for certain players and teams.
Tre Geauxhard24/7 that's why he gets the big bucks entertainment Nick and Colin talk about LeBron every day and say nothing new
Skip is a blind Lebron hater. Not interested in his opinions.
Andréas Remis skip would eat him alive
Nick is right about 1 thing. People in general always bring up LeBron failures & omit mj's.
Son-Jay Harrison nope. We know of his failures. But we don’t ignore his greatness.
Norman Lauron capping
Norman Lauron u make no sense.
@@normanlauron4102 huh ?
@@CatoProduction Should I try it in another language?
0:45 her reaction is every Jordan fanboys reaction when you bring up the rest of his career besides when he won rings 😂😂😂😂😂
@Kenneth Erickson MJ played more than 6 years in the nba. so by that his 6 for 15. by this logic only one man is great...The Great Bill Russell..dude went 11 for 12. by this logic lets stop talking about losers like MJ, kobe, lebron Dwade, magic, larry bird, tim, and so on. if you dont at the very least have a positive %s on Season vs Rings over 50..you are a loser.
or...next before people tried to hate we can use something called a brain?
@@BrotherO4 more rings, more finals MVPs, more regular season MVPs, more DPOYs, more all defensive selections...not close
@@Slipknot5301 Rings are a team thing..again Bill Russell has 11. MJ is just a scorer and defender..lebron is a scorer, passer, and defender of all 5 spots.
mj ended up being in the top 5 all time scoring..lebron will end up being top 2 or 1 all time Scoring and top 5 all time assist.
so again, stats? does not go to MJ..kareen, lebron, wilt, kobe, and so on are better. rings? MJ has 6 meanwhile bill is laughing with 11. Career? Kareem
if you do not know how to form a basketball point dont do so, if all you can say is 6 rings than you dont know MJ the player and what makes him one of the Goats.
Bill beaten Wilt,
Lebron had to beat KD, Curry,Tim for his
Kareem had to beat prim piston/boston
MJ could never beat none of the all time Teams in his Era...he had to wait till there Era was over...than get his own Super Team while the closet thing other team had was 1 Star or 1 superstar. again....if all you can say is 6 rings than stop typing at that point.
@@BrotherO4 lebron james lost 2 as many finals than he won 3-6 , jordan perfect 6-6 in finals that ends debate., jordan defensive player of the year how many lebron won?0
@@ash1234073 jordon won how many rings when there where real teams around? 0. all came from avg teams. lebron had to face OKC, Spurs, GSW, and Super GSW. Bulls didnt face any GSW and won..they where the GSW of that era and no one was even close.
also funny how all you are left is 6-6 which is not true..jordan played more than 6 season..uhm you do know if you play a season..and dont win you lost. its not better to lose in the first round than than in the finals. also funny DPOY is what you have left...mmeanwhile lebron has everything else.
also if its by rings only...Bill Russell laughs with 11 rings. Wilt had the whole NBA making rules to stop him meanwhile the NBA made rules to make it easier for MJ.
MJ was in a league where they had illegal Defense. by MJ word about this rule being removed.. letting teams double/triple guard at anytime does not let the superstar to be efficient.
MJ had to retire two times meanwhile Bill, wilt, kobe, and lebron didnt need "Rest". Lebron/kobe had more minutes than MJ and still was playing at a higher level..lebron even more so.
so debate all you want but if its about rings MJ lost, by history book MJ lost, Defense player? MJ lost, minutes played? mj lost, dealing with non illegal defense? MJ lost
kareem says high, Kobe says high, Bill says high, lebron says high, and wilt says hello.
Acting like MJ holds some record..all that he has left is 6-6 and its not even the most..not even close.
I need Nick Wright and Skip Bayless to debate this once and for all once LeBron retires.
Because they both have very compelling arguments.
Jay Kelz No Skip just hates on Lebron while Nick uses Facts
That is true, Skip can be Skip and just get in the way but we all know that they debate can last about a whole show smh
all skip will say is "clutch gene, mj is the greatest ever"
Or Skip uses facts but Bron fans just don't want to hear it.
Skip correctly believes that Lebron will never be as good as Michael. He is supposed to be in the discussion with Michael but his 4 failures in finals means he will never reach MJ's level. The GOAT is MJ and Lebron is second best at best.
Nick's facts are tainted by the fact his purpose is solely to try to bring Michael down. He brings up Birds Celtics and Isiah's pistons and the fact that Michael got swept 3 straight years and forgets to mention that lebron didn't make the playoffs in his first year while Michael never failed to make the playoffs during his bulls career and only failed at Washington when he was age 38-40.
Lets not forget the fact that Lebron has never played against a team the calibre of those Celtics or pistons ever in his career or the fact Detroit made up a set of rules specifically for MJ. Lets gloss over the fact that MJ put 63 on Larry in a losing effort. Then lets gloss over the fact that Michael took the pistons down in their prime as the defending champions and continue to say that he never beat anybody in their prime.
The only thing that matters is 6/6 in the finals, 6 finals MVP's, Higher point scoring average, defensive player of the year, 10x scoring champ and an NCAA championship. MJ did this all during a period in which the league was at it's strongest period vs the powder puff league of today in which MJ's stats averages would be significantly higher.
If Nick sits across the table from Skip then skip will retire!!
1 bet 1.4 ppg will come into discussion eventually , if they sit across for long . Because that guy Skip is irritating when he talks about LBJ , some facts & he treats them as gospel as if nobody can ever change/redeem them
king ked Skip can withstand with his trolling, so it would be a battle of the ages.
skip changes the subject whenever you bring damning stats to the table.
Skip would be like any other Jordantard. "None of that matters, all that matters is what Jordan has done, it doesn't matter that he didn't get past the first round without Pippen let alone win without him." They just focus on his positives and disregard his short comings.
LilPrince Killa in my opinion playing against Larrys Celtics and magics lakers or the bad boy Pistons and not winning a series against them with no help is not a surprise. With teams like that tell me if Lebron would even make the playoffs within his first three years in the NBA.
100% correct
Nothing that he said isn't true, but these are the same arguments Lebron fans have been using for a while now and they leave out a lot of context. You can't blame a 20-something year old Jordan for not being able to get past a 59 win Bucks team and the Bird-led Celtics dynasty in the first round, when Jordan didn't have another all-star caliber player alongside him, in the same way that you can't blame Lebron for losing to the Warriors and Spurs in his prime when his teammates didn't show up. And you can't look at one game (55 at the Garden) to say that Jordan was back to normal and so he shouldn't have lost to Shaq and Penny in 1995. Because anyone who actually knows basketball clearly understands that he was not back to normal- right before he retired, Jordan was averaging 41 8 and 6 in the Finals. In 1995, he was averaging less than 30 pts a game while shooting over 5% below his career average, and Nick wants to tell me Jordan was his same old self after two years of baseball? I call BS on that. People like Colin, Nick (both pro-Lebron), and Skip Bayless (anti-Lebron, pro-MJ) are so biased that things they present as "facts", while usually true, cover up a lot of the reality. And because most sports fans are pretty casual, they take their word for it without a proper understanding of basketball history
It's not Lebrons fault MJ played baseball, whether he was rusty or not the GOAT chose to do that. Also that Suns team in '93 was weak defensively. I don't think that it is overwhelmingly probable LBJ surpasses MJ like nick says, but it is definitely Possible, what if he sweeps this years warriors in the finals while dropping 35-10-10, obviously It's not likely but if something like that were to happen these last 2 years would be a major point on the LBJ side. I would say at this point he has a 30% chance of surpassing MJ depending on his jump shots consistency.
Sad Jets Fan u forgot that in 07 Lebron beat a championship pistons team to make it to the finals without a single all star on his team.
@Timo Cruz MJ playing baseball has nothing to do with Lebron- I was simply highlighting what actually happened with the rust caused by the 2-year layoff in order to counter Nick Wright's absolutely incorrect point that Jordan was the same in 1994-5 because the stats show he clearly wasn't. I think most reasonable fans agree that it's certainly possible, but definitely not "overwhelmingly probable" that Lebron surpasses MJ. Imo, however, it's really hard for Lebron to definitively surpass him- being considered his equal is more feasible. The reason is this- even if we assume that Lebron continues to rack up the volume numbers (the per game and advanced numbers will always slightly favor MJ, especially as Lebron exits his prime), and that he comes close to or ties MJ's accolades, i.e. rings, MVPs, etc, we could simply argue that it took Lebron more time to do everything that MJ did in just 13 seasons. It's the Kareem situation all over again. Kareem has more career points than Jordan, has the same number of rings and even one more MVP, but we still consider Jordan the greatest because in addition to his superior advanced metrics it took him fewer seasons to pretty much match Kareem's resume. Lebron's volume numbers may be enough for his fans to claim "GOAT", but we need to see more from him these next few years. Excited to see what happens.
Hey TheDAWinz you watch isiah production don't you?
They burnt the tapes 😂😂
All Nick does it speak facts. Everything Jordan did is looked at in the most positive light possible. Everything LeBron does is micro-analyzed and dissected and criticized to make look worse.
Like it or not at the same age, he has done more, significantly more than Jordan. Not saying he can for sure pass Jordan but he will go down too 3 conservatively probably top 2.
Only time will tell though
Age is a ridiculous comparison point between the two. Compare them at the same number of seasons as a professional. MJs 6 for 6 also is an insane achievement that elevates him. Not cracking under great scrutiny and playing great teams in the Finals is the ultimate test. I love Lebron, he is top 3-4 all time but Jordan remains on another level for now.
Patrick Harrison Jordan took years off to rest his body..Lebron at the Age of 31 has played to most minutes in NBA history
Patrick Harrison You're wrong because Jordan also had 3 years to develop in college and thus was able to come more ready to accomplish. If you wait three years after LeBron came in and compared their seasons then LeBron still comes out on top.
MJ's 6 for 6 is the most overrated stat of his career. Why? Because he lost three times in the first round. Because he never played great teams in the Finals. Nobody he played against in the NBA Finals compares to the Spurs, or thr Warriors, even the 2012 Thunder LeBron played who featured KD, Russ, Harden, Ibaka etc that absolutely ran San Antonio off the floor and almost ended the Spurs run before the Harden trade.
RondoStyle9 I agree, but right now I have 5 or 6 players ahead of him personally. MJ, Kobe, Kareem, Magic, Wilt, and Shaq.
3 years to develop? Lebron James is 14 seasons in. Take away his first 3. and his average PPG is 27.2
Which Is not "on top" of Michael Jordan with 30.9 with 11 seasons in at age 32. surely LBJ would average more points assists and rebounds At age 32? No.... They have the same amount of rings. Same amount of MVPs. The difference isn't very significant at all. But I would not say LBJ comes out on top. You can Cherry pick stats to go either way eg. MJ averages more points and steals. Lebron averages more assists and rebounds. Largely to do with the fact they also play different positions and are completely different players. Volume wise LBJ will end up with more everything than MJ because he played more games, started younger, no serious injuries. But just simply not as efficient as Michael. Rather than comparing them now look what Lebron james has to go and do in order to be the goat. By this time onwards Michael Jordan went and won 3 in a row averaged 30.4ppg/ 29.6ppg/ 28.7ppg (Lebron James will not do that. Not to mention the play off averages he set he also will not do) He also went on to average 38.1 minutes per game (another thing lebron james will not do because he complains about minutes played already) Michael also played ALL 82 games and started all of them (another thing lebron will not do because he can't) So when people actually say at 31 LBJ isn't far off MJ of course they aren't... they had accomplished around the same because they're both great players. But what makes Michael the goat is he carried on from this point on. 10 scoring titles, 6 from 6. Thats pretty unreal.
People Still Hold That 07 Finals lost against him? They Had No chance... 2011 however there is no defence
Radius Jordan the People Who hold 07 against him are haters or retards
he took one of the worst teams ever to the finals you gotta respect that!
22 ppg on 36% FG and 20% FT with 5.8 TOs per game and letting a 24 year old TP score 25 ppg on 57% from the field and 57% from deep is AWFUL.
He took the FOURTH best defense in the league to the Finals while playing the weakest in-conference competition since the 1987 Lakers. Just stop
I think it was the worst team ever to make the finals since the merger. Fivethirtyeight did a story on that 2007 Cavs team about a year ago
***** nope. 1999 Knicks were worse according to 538. So is Larry Johnson the GOAT ?
My man spitting fax lol the NBA burnt the tapes 😂😂
Lol imagine taking nick wright seriously
They didnt want to show you what happend with Orlando
@@Dontresssmith3757 there is footage on youtube go look it up
@@donpapi373 he’s right tho yall jus too much in denial bc ur insecure abt lebron surpassing ur daddy
@@jacobfarley247 did I mention that mj was my favourite that you call him my daddy?🤡
They always mention the playoffs he won but never the ones they didnt even make🤔🤔🤔🤔
6 OF 6...
@@brendaborrero385 1-9
354gangsta Yeah funny since lebron didnt make his first 2 playoffs. They both had 50 win teams in their 4th season. In the 2nd round Lebron played a 40 win nets team while jordan played the bad boy pistons(who went to the finals)
@@patricknicholsmusic9470 You do realize that the Cavs missed the playoffs with a better record (aside from rookie years) than the Bulls did, right?
Jordan made the playoffs... with less wins... than what LeBron missed the playoffs with. You know why? Because the East was trash outside of Boston and Detroit. It's called a top heavy league. Remember the NFC West putting in a 7-9 Division Winner? Yea... like that. When your 8th seed can limp into the playoffs with 32 wins, there is something wrong. And to make it worse, retards praise Jordan like it's an accomplishment lol
@@divine02759 6-6 vs 3-6 in finals clown
MJ is the greatest shooting guard ever and Lebron is the greatest small forward ever. U cant really compare them because their styles are different. MJ is a deadlier offensive player and Lebron is a better all around player. To say MJ is better, u have to be specific. He is better in what way? U just cant say he's better than Lebron when Lebron is a better rebounder and passer, and a more versatile defender also. Lebron can guard D-Rose and then in another series bang in the paint with big David West and Hibbert and snatch 17 rebounds against that front court.
Tunes342 I respect your opinion but Lebron can't guard West but on occasion and it was probably in transition. Years past Lebron couldn't guard 4/5 too big plus they actually had post moves. We call that mouse in the house. It's ok to say but in reality 1/3 he can guard for extended stretches. Really go back look I've never seen Lebron guard Kobe willingly but you have seen Kobe guard Lebron willingly it's just a different mind state that they have.
"..and a more versatile defender also."
I'm curious what makes you say that. Jordan has 9 all-defensive first teams and a DPOY award while Lebron has 5 all-defensive first teams and no DPOY. Not that it's all about accolade when it comes to defense (cough Kobe cough), I really don't see how you can call Lebron a more versatile defender. If anything I'd say Jordan has the edge in that category.
Gregory Lee I think he means that lebron is capable of guarding positions 1-5 which Jordan wasn't known for. Plus lebron has a few more years to get that DPOY, at least give him the time.
Lebron being the greatest small forward is up for debate, I would still choose Bird, I've seen Lebron quit on his team, since when are the people who are considered the best quitters, Jim Brown, Jerry Rice, Wayne Gretzky. When Lebron fails he quits, now that he is winning its all good and some people, aka (Tunes342) love him, but true sports people see right though it. Comparing lebron to mike is funny, people will try anything these days.
Tunes342 Larry Bird is the greatest SF ever
Lebron could average a triple double for the rest of his career and win ten rings, people will still have reason why MJ is the best in their eyes.
No they won't he just isn't better deal with it.
Black Petunia he is. deal with it
***** at literally only passing
Black Petunia and everything else
***** good job upvoting you own comment
Don't let this distract you from the fact that Lightning McQueen blew a 2 lap lead in the Piston Cup🏆
Chill. Changing tires takes to long😂
dude he literally got injured wtf
LMAOOOOOOOO he choked
That's because he wasn't driving a powder blue 72 cougar with a Cleveland engine and 4 barrel carburetor. 😆 LOL
I think many people just worship Jordan because he is the best marketed athlete ever. Indoctrination is a powerful thing.
theproperenglishman FACTSSS
Nope. Check the body of work and the rings... the marketing is a by-product of winning my friend.
davibaby2012 rings is a team effort. So that won't count, unless his teammates were terrible, which isn't true.
people just respects his Crazy competitiveness even playing at 40years old. i will consider lebron as great as him when i see him play at 38, schooling the new generation.
Dre H winning "won't count"??? And, rings are a team effort but Finals MVP'S are not.
finally a media guy said what I've been saying for years. It's not Jordan hate to point these things out, it's being more complete in his narrative and more objective
Greg Thomas It's arguing with no context.
complete foolishness if u even argue LeBron is in the same league as mj ur ignorant of the game. Jordan never melted n the finals and against way tougher defenses that truly roughed u up. LeBron will never get another ring. he's lost more finals than he's won. he's not an assassin like Mike or kobe. he's a great player who will always be top five at best only
This is true just like we lie about what Joe Montana did and didn't do. He had 3 straight first round exits in the prime of his career, but we all overlook that and say he's 4-0 in superbowls
nobody wins every year bro. and football is way different than a 7 game series in basketball
David Carr My point is people try to point out the imperfections in the players today and try to paint players from other era's as untouchable. They aren't.
Nate Zeller eh. Jordan's actual legacy is pretty untouchable 6 for 6 in finals. His last shot ever for the Bulls was a finals game winner. 5 mvps defensive player of the year 6 finals Mvps had a longer triple double streak than Russ Westbrook and avg 38 his third year in the league. Just like we look at lebrons numbers we gotta look at accolades. Also Lebron just has played longer. Jordan won 6 titles and 5 Mvps in the time it's taken Lebron to win 3 championships b
David Carr It's not untouchable and you are proving my point. I bet you are under 20 years old
Nate Zeller No one lies about Jordans History . Him failing against greater teams in his early years it what makes him GREAT! That why people love his game . Lebron had to leave in order to win .. those are facts ! Instead of playing against wade he decided to play with Wade
He spit a lot of facts about MJ . His legacy not spotless like everybody make it out to be
6-0 never seeing a game 7. best offensive and best defensive player on the court, Never lost when he had home court advantag.
In the history of the nba only 1 player has won a title, a scoring title, mvp, fmvp, all nba first team and first team all nvba defense. he did this 4x. levels.
@@caddylover10HES OVERRATED GO COPE.
@@Footb_All111 Over rated? If he is over rated why do so many ex players and coaches STILL say he is the best?
@@caddylover10 because it’s media propaganda they need a face of the sport 🤷♂️
I still have MJ as #1, but Nick is right about how this discussion goes. Also, the idea the Bulls would have won 8 straight is beyond ludicrous. If you want to say they'd have made different moves while he was away if he had been there, that's fine. But then they wouldn't have been in position to make the moves (like bringing in Rodman) that they made when he returned. You can't have it both ways. If you think they would have built the team to win in '94 an '95, you have to accept that would have had significant consequences for their ability to rebuild the team for '96-'98. Not to mention, both 3peats burnt the team out by themselves, but they were going to keep it going for 8 straight years? Please.
you still have MJ at 1 even after 20 years after he retired?
People tend to remember guy's accomplishments years after they retire, not their shortcomings. I think in 20 years we're gonna look at the careers of guys like Lebron and Kobe a lot more favorably than we do now and recognize how great they were.
Harry Garris nope. Kobe is already out of. E discussion. Lebron will be too. These guys aren't as good as Jordan and never will be.
ignorant Jordan fans will say Nick riding Bron. Great argument
How about this then? Wright talks about how Jordan was eliminated in the first round his first three years but fails to mention that Lebron didn't even MAKE the playoffs his first two seasons. Then in his 3rd season beat a barely over 500 Wizards squad to get eliminated by Detroit in the 2nd round. Wow. The Bulls were eliminated in the first round by three teams (Bucks in '85, Celtics in '86 and '87) that would take that PIstons squad to school.
HenDaRula it's not a great argument. he said Jordan beat the pistons because they got old. their main players weren't even 30 so how is that old? what hurt the pistons and helped the Bulls was the pistons lost key bench players to expansion teams and the league added the flagrant or technical foul rule so the pistons couldn't play dirty anymore.
@@SuperSparrow45 ok and how about you mention that Jordan made the playoffs in his 2nd year with a 30 - 52 record while lebron couldn't make it with a 42- 40 record. talk how extremely weak that era must've been to make it with 30 wins.
It's no comparison jordan is the GOAT
i will take jordan's 6-6 over lebron 3-6 in finals every single time how's that for ignorant clown
Nick wright the 🐐
Thot Quin no you just 2 years old
TheSwagIsBack ..nah you just made bro
TheSwagIsBack lol
Good argument but can we all just agree that they’re both all time greats. Jordan was the best in the 90s and LeBron was the best in the 2010s
Fr it seems like that you’re a causal if you appreciate both of them
I wanted to comment first but I'll pass
Was that a pun?
TheKnowledgeSeeker the fact that he has a lebron profile pic and he pass up the chance to be first
"Jordan has 3 first round exits and Lebron has none!!!"
MJ lost to the 59 win Bucks his rookie year when they had Defensive Player of the year guard Sidney Moncrief, and then lost to Bird's dynasty Celtics the following 2 seasons. Lebron didnt even make the playoffs until 2006 and when he did, he hit the lottery by getting a laughably weak Wizards team in the first round with no good defenders.
"When MJ left the Bulls, they went from 57 wins to 55!!!"
What Nick failed to mention is the fact that the Bulls overhauled their entire roster when MJ left to play baseball and brought in 40ppg worth of scoring to replace him. Year 2 of MJ in baseball, the Bulls were 34-31 before MJ came back and when he did, they finished the season 12-3. And we all know what happened the following year. 72-10, all time greatest team. 55 wins to 72 is pretty impactful if you ask me.
It's amazing what adding a little context can do to someone's argument, huh Nick?
Well obviously, now add a little more context into the Lebron argument and it will go on and on...
"Lebron didnt even make the playoffs until 2006"
Was 2005 season, but yes technically in 2006. However there is a similar argument to be made against Jordan. Many people disregard that Lebron has already been to more finals than Jordan. Because Lebron lost 4 of them, many people disregard them as meaningless when in fact he has already, at this point, been to one more finals than Jordan did in his entire career and four more than Jordan had at 31.
When Lebron is done he could have easily been to 10 finals appreances, that is four more than Jordan managed, regardless if he won or not. And I know the argument that he is in a weak east is there, but that is outside his control, fact is fact and it is something that is being glazed over by almost everyone commenting on this matchup.
Stop copying and pasting this garbage you MGay stan
***** Had MJ not retired mid prime and then again after 98, he would have at least 2 more finals appearances, maybe another MVP, his stats would be unparalleled and this wouldnt even be a conversation.
Oh LeBron came into the league as an 18 year old, compare to mj who came in after his junior year and being coached by arguably the greatest teacher of basketball in Dean Smith. The cavs improved every year LeBron was there, despite enormous pressure and expectations never before experienced by any athlete , not even Jordan.
I couldn't have said it better myself the haters are never consistent
Regarding the 2007 Finals, most people rightfully give Lebron a pass for getting swept by Spurs, with multiple hall of famers, and Lebron was young with a weaker squad.
If you give Lebron a pass for that in the finals then you have to give MJ a pass for being swept in the first round by the Celtics, with multiple hall of famers, and MJ was young with a weaker squad. MJ couldn’t help that the elite teams were in his conference rather than the west like it was for Lebron.
Gotta keep it “consistent” 😂
Also MJ never lost a series where his team was ranked higher seed or the favorite to win. I believe Lebron missed the finals after having a team be the #1 seed two or three times 👀
Consistently hating
@@therant7411 MJ teams were obviously better than Lebron’s teams. Without Lebron his teams crumble without Jordan his teams do just fine.
@@cheyheyway6244
When Lebron left the heat you do know they won 37 games the following season, right?
That’s with…
Whiteside missing 34 games
Goran Drogic missing 56 games
Chris Bosh missing 38 games
DWade missing 20 games
The heat were riddled with injuries and were 2 games from making the playoffs without Lebron. It’s revisionist history to say all his teams just suck when he leaves.
And the second CLE team was players he wanted lmboooo. He told them he was not staying unless they traded Wiggins for Kevin Love, he told CLE that they need to give Tristan Thompson and JR smith the brinks truck or he’s out, he told CLE to trade veteran leaders/winners (d wade, d Rose, crowder etc) mid season without giving them a chance to work for young un proven puppies.
Lebron has been controlling his teams rosters since leaving CLE the first time he left and only has 4 rings? I can’t imagine the greatest basketball player ever controlling his teams destiny and win the finals so few times 😅
@@therant7411 When Lebron left the Cavs they went from solid contenders to having the biggest record drop off in NBA history.When Lebron left the Heat they went from A Finals team to not making the playoffs and that’s a fact. Your injury excuses are lame af every team gets fatigue and injury after years of grinding it part of the game. When Jordan left the bulls they won 55 games. When Lebron left the Cavs the second time they went from a finals team to the worst in the league. Jordan’s team had virtually no record difference.
There are levels to this Lebron in himself is a force that carries his teams to success. He does so much more for his teams than Jordan. Jordan was just apart of a great system with the GOAT coach and a top 5 player in the league helping him out of every series.
What happened when Jordan got whopped by an inexperienced expansion team in the playoffs? He got two stars added to his team making a super team.
Lebron is the Greatest Basketball player of all time. He is the best in the most skillful era. He also was more efficient than Jordan and a bigger factor to his team’s success.
LeBron is the Brady of the NBA. No matter what they do to prove themselves as the GOAT'S, fans will still say Montana and Jordan are better because of their perfect records in championships
He's Peyton, choker with pretty stats. Brady is MJ - clutch personified
Thorfinn lmao good comparison and even tho I dislike Peyton I don't think either are chokers. Brady cheating 3 too many times so I can't put him with jordan
Brady will never be the goat cause he's a cheater
I hate Brady once he took his 5th he is the G.O.A.T and I'm from the Montana era... I'm a Giants fan before... L.T and company got there first one.
Baller_Eli naw that’s entirely correct sir. They give MJ & Montana the goat title b/c their degree of difficulty , the Undefeated status on the big stage & the overall total body of work
I will give Lebron this, he's made an impact of a similar scale to MJ and I am pretty sure it was hard for anyone to think that anyone could match that once Jordan had his 2nd retirement. I was definitely not happy to see Curry win unanimous MVP because I think everyone can agree with me that Lebron could literally go to any team in the NBA and not only get that team immediately to the playoffs, but at least a Conference Finals playoff appearance as well over Curry. In other words, Lebron is more an MVP than Curry because (1) If Lebron got hurt, the Cavs would clearly be more hurt by his injury than if the Warriors lost Curry, (2) Lebron can literally play every position in basketball at an All-Star level (granted Curry's size prevents him from doing that), and (3) Lebron has dealt with higher expectations than anyone else in the NBA because he had all eyes on him from Day 1 in the NBA and it's safe to say he's lived up to those high expectations. In summary, I don't think Lebron will ever surpass Jordan, but I do think Lebron will make the most compelling argument for that than anyone else in NBA history once his career is said and done.
Joseph Harris Lebron got robbed of unanimous MVP in 2013 when that one person gave a vote to Carmelo. Lebron was absolutely dominant that year.
And the only reason why he wouldn’t pass MJ has nothing to do with basketball in general but everything MJ is burnt in people minds and they will not let it go!! Ever!!
Get this man on First Take please
" The NBA burned🔥🔥🔥the 📼📼📼." Get'em Nick 💪💪😅
jordan 6-6 lebron 3-6 in finals.
Ashley 3187 it’s a team sport not individual head to head match ups lol. It’s hard finding the footage when Jordan got beat in 95 and don’t say he was rusty
Go check the tapes search them up you literally believe everything nick says as if it’s true
@@donpapi373 Exactly
@@donpapi373 the point is it's not officially released. Any footage of it's terrible quality of some vhs tape.
Why people always brought those two comments :
1) MJ would have won 8 rings in a row?
Chicago Bulls lost Horace Grant to the Orlando Magic. Who Chicago had in 1995 to stop Shaquille O'Neal & Horace Grant? Nobody.
And Jordan committed two clutch turnovers in the elimination game in 1995 versus Orlando.
Once again, Jerry Reinsdorf signed Rodman in 1996. They beat Orlando. No Rodman's rebounding or defensive anchor, no ring.
2) MJ never missed the playoffs. LeBron James wasn't on the race his first two years...
Chicago Bulls made the playoffs with those records :
* 38-44 in 1985;
* 30-52 in 1986.
The East wasn't as stacked as people want you to believe.
Dave Toussaint
Ppl don't like truth
Kingkai Sauce
People never love thruth.
The fans were acting the same way back in the 1980s.
"Jordan would'nt survived back in the days"... Bla bla bla.
"WILT WOULD destroyed him"
We're seeing the same phenomenon 30 years later. We haven't changed from the last 30 years!
Dave Toussaint
IkR...
It's like saying Curry isn't that great of a shooter, you'd have to be
A. A Hater
Or
B. Don't watch basketball
Truth is truth..
I would say Lbj is either = or Greater..
Mj wouldn't won that much with out Sottie or Rod, facts..
Lbj wouldn't won that much with out others showing up and playing great too.
Such a WEAK argument, as if the Bulls wouldn't have made any moves, like saying the Warriors would never beat the Cavs if they didnt get Durant, as if that is the only move they could have made.
Tony Roca
Rewatch the 1996 series versus Orlando and Seattle.
When MJ and the Bulls had a bad shooting night. Who was there to collect the offensive rebounds? Dennis Rodman.
He had many games in those two series where he had at least 8 offensive rebounds.
Versus Seattle, Rodman gathered 6.8 offensive rebounds per game from game 1 to 6!
Shaquille O'Neal shot only 38% when guarded by Rodman.
So, yes. Without Rodman, no ring in 1996.
That's not an argument, that's a fact enforced by Reinsdorf & Phil Jackson.
You won as a team. Jordan never got out of the first round without a solid cast around him. That's normal. It's 5 vs 5!
i hate how everyone treats jordan like he's a God or something untouchable... Kobe was just as good as MJ in parts of his career lebron is on the road of the greatest basketball player ever.
Rayzajw because MJ is a god
MJ elevated basketball to a global game. He is one of the great sportspeople of all time in any sport. Kobe isnt close Im sorry, go to europe, go to asia and youll see everyone holds Jordan at the top.
lol read my comment you idiot i said kobe in parts was just as good... and lebron is on the road to greatness. im just saying MJ is not a Basketball God and if he played in this era he would of been hated more than Lebron is now plus if he was a god he would of won against the magic. I've been watching basketball ever since i can since 01 okay so yeah i might be a tad biased.
gerizzyYMcrew kobe isn't a joke. but i thought the 2010 finals was pretty good by kobe but i see where you're coming from. cheers bro.
Rayzajw yea but every team he goes to a team has to be built around him what if ray Allen never signed with the heat what love or smith never came to the cavs his team's make not the other way because if it wasn't for Kyrie and Ray LeBron would be 1-6 not 3-4 Jordan actually hit the big shot for his team
When LBJ career Is done he will be goat Enjoy the next 5-7 years Jordan fans
he literally has the best argument for lebron haters
Jesse Ordono no he doesn't he didn't put no context with it none
He just picks and chooses
He didnt mention that lebron didnt even make the playoffs in his early years
Also doesn't mention that LeBron is 7-1 in Eastern finals versus MJ's 6-2.
MJ was on a Bulls' team that went 30-52 and still made the playoffs. The teams weren't as good as you think they were.
Nick wright thinks Lebron provides rain for the earth.
Thank you. I always try to make those points. This dude's on point.
Everybody brings up Michael Jordan's first round exits but they never acknowledge that he was facing Larry bird and the Celtics and
Lebron was facing the Washington wizards led by Gilbert arenas
Rudy Montana ok he never lost in the first round Magic Johnson never lost in a semifinal what's the point ?
The point is people knock Lebron because he's lost in the finals while Michael has never lost in the finals. Michael being undefeated in the finals shouldn't be an argument for Michael because he couldn't even get to the finals as many times as Lebron already has. The fact that he lost so many times in the first round takes the lore away from that 6-0 finals stat
syaredic1 the reason why he didn't get to the finals cause he ain't the luxury of having a super team & a weak conference like Lebron did.
trevion sewell Youre crazy. NOBODY brings up MJs first round exits. All you hear is 6 for 6.
bringing up competition is whack. it's the NBA. playoffs at that.anybody liable to get beat. can't blame LeBron for being so dominate since he touched the league from high school
PREACH!!!
MJ 1-9 in playoff series without SaveMe Pippen
He still lost with Pippen in the playoffs 🤷🏿♂️
@@qbrees30339 lebron still losses with wade and bosh
@@qbrees30339 with love and kyrie
Tim Phillips how many team Lebron had to go to and win and lose me stayed on the same team
Amirthatgoat30 All w no ls Don’t sit here and act like Jordan didn’t have an all time great coach? He had a great front office too. Come on man.
thank you somebody fianally said it about jordan thank you thank you for the love of god yes hes right colin
IKR
He is wrong.
the Pistons were around the same age as MJ in 91. Lebron didn't make the playoffs in his first two years in the league. MJ didn't have any help versus the Celtics.
Just the facts
@@shanecurtis1974 what facts? Isiah and Dennis Rodman is one year older than MJ. Mark Aguirre is two years older than MJ. Dumars is one year younger than MJ. Salley is two years younger than MJ. MJ didn't have any help against the Celtics. That was his 2nd and 3rd year in the league. As I said, Lebron didn't even make the playoffs in his first two years in the league.
Straight FAX.
Jordan #1 , lebron #2 ... no dispute, if bron beats the Warriors this year and wins finals mvp, there is a compelling argument that they are equals. #nuffsaid , let's move on from this topic
rashawn thompson The most fair position I've seen. Totally agree. If he beats this Warriors team then we gotta take a serious look at them as equals
RondoStyle9 facts. Lebron my favorite player but I'm getting tired of this topic. Guys are just repeating the same information.
I would agree if Lebron career ended after this year, and he goes to do something else. If he sticks around he could surpass Jordan as player but never the narrative.
rashawn thompson I think if he threepeats with this cavs team I'll believe he has a chance...but I agree that it's talked about too much...I'm not ready to put him at number 1...he has to do it...Idk why people are counting out the warriors. This warriors team is still REALLY good and that series could go either way
rashawn thompson it's all suggestive boss this will never end.
Exactly shaq & penny were giving them buckets in 95 🔥🏀🔥🏀🔥💪
What's interesting is Jordan was back for only 15 games. He came back the next year , played a full year & Orlando was better at 60 wins & welp...swept in 4!!! & Shaq headed out to LA (thank God)
This story might have carried more weight if he had not came back the way he did & ran off another 3!
Swept them in 96
N what happened the next 3 years after
Bilal Ali he came back the next year with a completely different team
Bilal Ali so you should gonna leave out the fact they the bulls upgraded the team. This is the point Nick was making, ppl omit when discussing anything unfavorable with MJ
Nick looks like he’s about to give a very emotional speech in the thumbnail
I know Jordan mad af nick just exposed him like that😂
What did nick say that exposed him
jordan 6-6 in finals, lebron 3-6 in finals nothing else needs to be said,
Ashley 3187 Than man1-9 without Pippen
@@ash1234073 6-0
@Brett Clayton He just went to play baseball . why would he run when he 3 peated ?? and you say he ran but came back to 3 peat again..
I want to respect women when they talk sports but they make it so hard sometimes.
I agree with him 100%....how can u argue facts
with more facts of course
I remember when Jordan came into the league. The knock against him was he couldn't get by Bird, which was absolutely right. Jordan benefited from league expansion that put 6 New teams in the league in the1990s. Good, but no Wilt,Magic, Dr. J, or several others I would put in front of him.
Yeah why would people forgot about how good Magic, Bird, Wilt are? Wilt even said it in front of MJ when they are taking about who is the best and most dominate, Wilt told MJ that the NBA changed the rules so he can't dominate while the NBA changed rules so MJ can dominate, you know what MJ's response is? nothing, Nada, Zip cause its true and he knows he will not hold a candle to Wilt if they clash.
@@jabe9672 Bro Michael Jordan was literally in the league for three years during Boston's prime and the Bulls were already better than the Celtics by his 4th year. Lebron didnt even make the playoffs his first two years. Stop the BS
@@tony16harris Bruh MJ never won against prime Celtics hahaha
@@tony16harris Jordan NEVER beat the prime bird Celtics OR the prime Lakers team
@@cartershane339that’s a lie lol. They tied 3-3 in the regular season. The bulls just was able to avoid the Celtics in the first round in 1988. Y’all think if Jordan had a good team earlier on like magic bird and IT he would t have beaten them or giving them a good run lol? And hay y’all don’t bring up the Olympics lol. Jordan literally torch the nba all stars IT Bird Magic etc lol. The man went 9-0 before even playing for the bulls in the Olympics
where is the rest of this
Fact fact fact! Love it. Most TV analysts nowadays are so biased, it’s disgusting.
Including Nick Wrong
Bruh, Nick Wright is one of the most INSANELY biased "analysts" on TV today for sports. Dude goes out of his way to constantly move the goalposts to glorify LeBron's accomplishments, while downplaying Jordan's. He's a massive hypocrite.
@@SuperSparrow45 Where do you put Skip Baseless. 😂
My boy had the best thing to say about Jordan’s career. It’s like cake mix, you don’t gotta add nothing to it to make it better. When people try to change the narrative of his story it actually hurts his story.
To those of you who are saying that the Bulls swept the Magic in the ECF the following year are discrediting the fact that the Bulls acquired Ron Harper, a tall point guard and elite defender to help MJ and Scottie guard Penny and also acquired Dennis Rodman to help out with guarding Shaq.
Even though they lost to the Magic in 95 with Harper..... cool story bro
Facts
everytime people point flaws in jordan, you can point 2 flaws in lebron. For instance, Lebron couldn't beat the celtics till pierce kd and allen were around 34.
LongJohn Silverthorne the Celtics big 3 was in their 30s when they became a team so this is irrelevant they. were just really team
LongJohn Silverthorne because he had no team with him
Are you talking about the 56 win Celtics team or some old team that shouldn't have been in the playoffs? Because I'm confused there, seeing as they were still regarded as the team to beat even when their stars were "old"
Lol when LeBron finally beat the Big 3, the Celtics were the defending eastern champions and were a game away from being the defending champs , so don't try to minimize the accomplishment
LeBron quit against the Celtics in 2010, put up 22, 15, & 27 games 4-6 after getting up 2-1. Lebron had the worst choke job of all time in 2011 and got outplayed by Jason Terry. Lebron was upstaged in 2014 finals, games 3-5 Kawhi was the best player on floor and it wasn't close, which was a big reason MIA lost by a finals RECORD margin. These are some nasty stains on his resume and Nick Wright is trying to tear down MJ to make them look comparable.
FACTS .... respect....
Jordan never flopped, never left a game for cramps, never lost in the finals, he won a 3 peat with one all star and another one with two all stars, didn't lost two finals playing alongside Ray Allen, D Wade and Chris bosh, Jordan lost the playoffs playing with bad teammates (some of them drug addicts) against some of the best teams ever (Celtics, Piston) while having outstanding performances before getting any help, and finally Jordan played hardcore defense while LeBron doesn't play defense at all. Oh yeah but LeBron is the goat, all hail the King of all time basketball.
Jordans 2 three-peat Bulls team were better than Lebron's early Cleveland and the championship Cleveland team. it's very funny you give Jordan excuses for losing in his early years but Jordan stans use that against Lebron. And bringing up "never flopping", "never missing games" just shows you have no real arguments to use. Jordan 1-9 in the playoffs without his saviour Scottie Pippen, that says a lot.
Mobius The Jordan's 91-93 teammates aren't no way as good as Love and Irving. And from 96 to 98 Rodman and Pippen didn't bring as much help to Jordan as Wade, Allen and Bosh brought to Lebron. And he still lost two finals with them
Nick Wright is totally wrong. Jordan dominated. This is not a debate.
Erik Hopkins compared to the players lebron has gone up against. Like come on mjs competition was not even close
+&1 How old are you? competition wasn't very good, y'all goofy fr
+Lîght's Øût It's Øvér *you
When Jordan left the bulls that’s when Pippen went into his prime
Jordan 1-9 In playoffs with out pippen
So for all the people that say Pippen only won because of Jordan
Well ?
Trader Help 101 l
Lebron James 0 titles without another superstar teammate.
Aaron9 dude shut up. It’s summer vacation
He also never jumped to stacked up super teams did he?
Russell, Wilt & Kareem hold the records for basketball. MJ holds the record for shoe brand.
Comparing Jordan's conference in the East in the 80's and 90's to the East of the modern product lmao
Other than the Piston's and Celtic's, name one team that would hold their own in todays game
Yeah those teams would get worked today
1missing Sixers and the Hawks
1missing Well you didn't say except for this team, so I'm gonna have to say Bulls.
CometVS yea to bad bulls made playoff with 3 straight years under .500 even 30 wins got them in one year 🤣🤣🤣
It's sad to see a show only promoting one player and dissing the rest
Right! Jordansexuals discredit everybody to boost their drunken deity.
Unlike Skip, Nick backs up with statements with facts. No dumb generalizations like "the chosen one turns into the frozen one".
Eita Masaki Man Skip is so annoying but I don't watch him anymore as I get too angry. But tbh all these guys have an agenda to keep them relevant and for people to talk about them. If Skip didn't diss Lebron then he would be no way near as big
I have listened to these arguments a lot, I feel obliged to take my time and write. Let me dismantle them one by one:
1 Pistons got old and this is why Jordan beat them - Lie. Their leaders, Isiah Thomas was 30 and Joe Dumars was 28 or 29 at that time. Last time I checked these are prime years for NBA players, stop this lie Nick! In fact, got old argument is more suitable for lebron vs celtics. Celitcs were past their prime, way over 30 when Lebron outmatched them already in Miami. Jordan never backed down in the face of earlier defeats and ran to another team. He got his Championship with the Bulls unlike Lebron. I dont blame Lebron for leaving but when you are having GOAT conversation that matters a lot, I am sorry.
2. Argument that Lakers were average in 91 is a joke. Magic was probably younger than Lebron is now. Magic never averaged crazy points, he has career 17 points per game or so and still won championships and led Lakers, he was a play maker. And they were much more of a threat than Mavericks in 2011 to say the least. They did not emerge from the west by a lottery mind you, they won it. And Jordan beat them 4-1, not seven games or something.
3. You are overblowing the defeat to Orlando in 95 way out of context. Jordan played something like 20 games before playoffs?
he returned in the end of the regular season in 94 and the team has not gelled well yet. Want proof that it is needed? Check this year's Lebron team the Cavs. They played horribly (despite having as you claim the greatest ever and a force multiplyer) in the beginning of the season and you were crying that 'this is the worst Lebron team since 2007' and look now, they are playing very well. Bulls lost to Orlando in 6 games in the second round in 95. They met them again next year and what? Bulls swept the same Orlando in the playoffs. Dont tell me they had Rodman. losing in 6 and then sweeping them is a huge difference to be attributed just to one Denis Rodman.
4. True, Miami struggled in 2015 but they re-adapted and went to playoffs in 2016 without Lebron and beat Charlotte. Then they lost to Toronto in the second round in 7 games mainly because Bosh got injured.
5. I will add another argument sometimes used: Jordan beat Utah with old Malone and Stockton (Malone is a second highest scorer in NBA history folks!). Has anybody asked how old was Jordan in those years? He was the same age as them! Jordan at 35 led a team to a championship, singlehandedly closed out game 6 and the championship in 98, videos are all over youtube please watch. I have not seen anything remotely similar from Lebron. MJ rose time and again in the face of challenges and never shied away and choked he did this at 35 again. Wade is now 35 and you say he can no longer be a valuable starter and lead a franchise. Lebron is soon to be 33 and still going strong but Jordan never had this contemporary medical means and methods and equipment, all these chemicals Lebron sits on, all this research and findings to maximize his physical performance. He did it in the ninties! Amazing thing is that despite all this, Jordan had a higher vertical than Lebron!
6. And the biggest thing. Nick, you often say that we ignore Jordan's shortcomings since he has long retired but we scrutinize Lebron because he is here playing now. The fact that MJ has retired long ago does not serve him well, its the contrary, many people do not even remember him play. Lebron is here in front of our eyes producing headline plays and games and reminding us of his greatness on regular bases, while Jordan has no such possibility and many of his great plays are being forgotten. If lebron retires with what he has now, the GOAT talk will be over before you can blink. Him being around and still making headlines is the reason the conversation is still going.
Bottom line: Jordan is the GOAT. Can Lebron pass him? Probably yes, but he has to do much more.
beqa16v EVERY. DAMN .WORD. ...AMEN BROTHA. 💯
beqa16v agree.😂😂this show is not a debate...its a biased show....i like stephen a smith to shut this big mouth of nick wright
Spot on. I think people still forget how gun shy LeBron was early on in his career too when it came to taking the last shot.
And why is he sleeping on the Celtics like Kevin McHale wasn’t playing on that team too. He was also top 50. As if LeBron would have beaten them.
Mac Turner I’d argue the addition of Kevin Durant in 2017 is the better GS team than the 73 win team. If LeBron can somehow pull this out then you win the argument.
Mac Turner
Jordan never had to beat a 73 win team. He was the 72 win team. Don't forget.
I appreciate Nick's point about people overlooking MJ's early postseason performances, but the only reason people do that is because Jordan went 6 for 6. He didn't lose when it mattered the most. He didn't even let any Finals series go to game 7. He got the MVPs all 6 times. Unless Lebron gets 7 chips and 7 Finals MVPs, I don't want to hear it. Lebron won 2 chips by joining two of the best players in his conference. In that 2011 Finals, he was complete garbage. If the Heat managed to win that series, the Finals MVP would have gone to Wade. The second year, they went against a talented team in OKC that was still wet-behind-the-ears. So if you want to throw shade on Jordan's competition, don't turn a blind eye to Lebron's.
Side note: When Lebron left the Heat, they missed the playoffs because Bosh went down with his blood clot issues and Wade missed 20 games. Even then, they only missed the playoffs by a few games.
Well said, it's nice to see someone with a more complete perspective! Let's not forget Lebron did not even make the playoffs until season 3. Also Mj joined the Bulls off a 27 win season so they had no good players, then they faced a 59 win Bucks and the 86 Celtics were a top 5 of all time team! Comparing eras that 86 Celtics team was as good as the 2015 GSW, imagine Lebron facing GSW in round one with no support players - he'd get swept too!!!
Stephen Pamphile You’re going to penalize LeBron for getting to the Finals more than Jordan? That makes no sense.
Stephen Pamphile every game matters the most what he's saying is that jordan did not beat anyone until they got old
MJ could only make it to six finals and didn't had teams like today's GSW, the 80's celtics or lakers or even the pistons from 30 years ago. He was a great player, but LeBron is better period.
@Stephen Pamphile You do realize that Nick was making that very point as a COUNTER-ARGUMENT to everything you just said? He begins w/ making the point that everyone attacks Lebron for his early career failings, including your point regarding him losing to the Mavs. Since then he's been absolutely incredible; not MJ incredible, but Nicks point is: why is lbj judged more for his early failings than his later success while MJ is judged only on his success and not his failings. These are facts so how you figure he's throwing shade is beyond me. The irony of your who argument is ABSOLUTELY NO ONE turns a blind eye to Lebron's failings
Wow this is fax
Nick Wright is as good at stating facts as you are at spelling.
alpha omega no excuses homie. If they would've won you would've been talking hella noise. Stop it! Baseball shape.. Smh
alpha omega cut it out again... The only reason they won was because they went out and got Rodman. Facts!
Same logic applies to LeBron, who has failed to win 5 times already, and he hasn't retired and come back to a sport after not playing it for nearly 2 seasons (game or practice).
ndleinahaystack they didn't just get Rodman, but Kukoc and Kerr also became much more efficient players by moving to the bench. Kukoc was third on the team in scoring and won sixth man of the year and Steve Kerr could move from starting PF to bench SG
100% correct. Jordan is the greatest basketball player of all time, and probably will be even when Lebron retires. But they hype him up way too much to be greater than he actually is. He's the greatest player, but he is not perfect
Boogie Cousins #MakeNBAFairAgain I'm not so sure. The problem is that the media has been trying to create the next Jordan since before he even retired from the bulls. So they've kept comparing players to him. Think about it. Grant Hill, Kobe, Lebron, etc. I don't think he's overrated as much as other NBA legends are underrated. The top 5 players of all time were just so far above the competition that it's crazy. Lebron will be underrated in the next 20 years by people who never saw him play.
VeliThaDon best answer I've heard yet.
they did same to lebron hen eh came into the nba
Boogie Cousins #MakeNBAFairAgain I agree but every record is made to be broken. Jordan is like the Bruce Lee of basketball because ppl think there is absolutely no one else on earth that can do what they did and do it better n I'm a die hard Jordan fan for life
Henry Street - jordan is the greatest because of how he got his stats, sure he had pippen who was a great team player but he wasn't a closer like how jordan was. jordan won 6 rings in style with his amazing offensive techniques that players til this day are trying to mimic. jordan at 38 scored 50. he was all finesse and always put on a show with his flashy moves, I was always entertained. lebron does not have that in him. there may be another player out there to surpass jordan but it's not lebron
Chamberlain is best basketball player ever........ Do your research
🤦🤦🤦yea ummm no
He isn't. He wouldn't have dropped those stats in todays era
Period
Completely agree, nobody ever talks about anything negative when it comes to Jordan.... but so quick to name everything negative about Lebron !
Out of all the teams jordan faced while winning championships, the only team he faced that was good was the Orlando Magic led by Shaq and Penny Hardaway and he lost. Imagine what the San Antonio Spurs led by coach Pop and the warriors would have done to him.
Utkarsh Dave Sahni I didn’t know that the 60+ win Jazz with MVP Malone and Stockton, the 64 win Sonics with Payton, Kemp, Schrempf, and Hawkins, and teams led by MVP Magic, MVP Barkley, Clyde Drexler, and 2 time defending champion pistons weren’t good
Pop would have shut him and his iso ball down. In this era he would be like a less skilled Harden getting shut down by 6'8 wings like the Klaw or Paul George or even a large ball handlers like Ben Simmons in the playoffs.
Nick is so right sadly💯
Shout out to nick for the well earned success
I wanted to hear kristine had to say
PREACH. Getting to the Finals and losing is not worse than not making the Finals, kids. That's like saying that getting a silver medal is worse than not medaling.
Poochie Collins yes it is. Because when your team sucks you get booted. Lebrons teams lose the finals by getting outplayed. Jordan outplayed the competition while his team got outplayed. Learn something.
+Gmoney Mozard : wow, my medal analogy went right over your head. Jordan's losses in the first round: 3. LeBron: 0. Jordan got outplayed a lot, didn't he? "Learn something."
+Gmoney Mozard : Google showed a reply from you, but it's not showing when I open the YT page to reply? Did you delete it? Whatever.
Poochie Collins Na I caught some type of errors last night when trying to post it over and over and just gave up and went to bed.
Poochie Collins if Lebron made a much bigger difference to his team then why do his teams collapse when they need him? A case could be made that pippen is an all time great because of MJ. The structure around MJ was purely support. Lebron has never created a dynamic Jordan did with pippen and never will. He's too busy jumping around the league trying to win championships so people like you can pretend he can be compared to Jordan. Go look up the numbers son. Lebron has played in more playoff games with less competition and lost more and has worse numbers.
Lebron has played more regular season minutes than Jordan and will have played Jordan's whole career in games played this season and has worse numbers.
Stop it. That's black and white. You can't debate these things. Jordan in the goat, Lebron is a great player. And that's it. Stop overhyping him.
Nick Wright spitting facts!!
Nick Wright really be spitting facts
All facts.
Just let both be great.
no it's not. nick got a lot of his information wrong.
@@imsljr420 he left out alot & he lied. Those Pistons hadn't even hit 30 yet as far as thier 3 all-stars. And then he chooses not to acknowledge the teams that had better records with hall of fame coaches like Pat Riley & an Orlando Magic team who on paper had a double digit starting 5 , younger , won 60 games & got swept by them in thier 30s fresh off a finals appearance. So much more too
D' Niko but lets not act like they both didnt have bad moments in their career. Both obv top 2 of all time anyways
Most easily triggered fans: Jordan's and Lebron's
Markers Kobe and Curry
Matt the Backwards One People blast curry fans nonstop, never seen a triggered curry fan though.
Jay Tran Idk what rock you've looked under. I see them everywhere, whining about how the NBA is rigged
+Shan Lo na 1on 1 Kobe goat
Kobe's and Jordan's fans are the easiest to Trigger...especially Kobe fans who witness the last 8 years of his career and never seen a minute of Jordan play.
I'll agree with Nick that LeBron had more of an impact on his team in terms of overall contribution than MJ because of how he can play 4 positions due to his size and how much the cavs struggle without him. Nonetheless, once MJ figured it all out, he was unstoppable in the playoffs!
Once he figured it out? He played with the most stacked team that's ever been established from coach to bench and all the competition was either in his team or had bag boys on their team. Jordan never faced competition like shaq, that's why he had to get Rodman. Had he never got Rodman, Jordan just has 3 rings and probably retired after losing to the magic
Lebron can NOT play shooting guard or center
@greatwhiteman4124 everything you said is stupid and wrong
He said it all! Jordan is great but it's no longer his court! If you don't Know to show love you will not at any back!
Nick is the best analysis
When MJ was playing in the east, the bulls had to deal with the Knicks, Pacers, Magic and Heat. Who do the Cavs have to worry about?
Well, lebron has had to face the 64 win Piston with the best record and defense in the league, the 66 win Celtics with again the best record and defense in the league, the 62 win Bulls with the best record and defense in the besides the MVP in a prime D-Rose. I mean sure the last 3 years the east was weak, but the you seriously mentioned the heat and the pacers as part of your argument?? The 2013/14 pacers are better than the 98 pacers the bulls faced, and the 09 Magic with the 3x DPOY prime Howard is a bit better than the mid 90s heat team. Just because one team is from 20 years ago you mentioning then in an argument doesn't automatically makes then better than a team from 6 years ago. The KG, Pierce, Allen and Rondo Celtics, the mid 2000s pistons and the 10/11 and 11/12 bulls are better than any 90s eastern conference squad excludind the bulls of course, maybe only Shaq's Magic with Penny, D-Scott and Nick Anderson were as good as the bulls, but even then they were certainly worse than the 2000s celtics and pistons. So please just stop with the flat out ignorance man, what makes the 90s knicks better than the late 2000s Magic huh?? Looking player by player and by the metrics, the magic were actually the better and deeper team, yet you mention the Knicks as if it would enforce your point. So I could just say lebron has faced the celtics, the magic, the pistons, the pacers and the bulls, who combined are much better than the ones you mentioned. Bare in mind that for me MJ is the GOAT man, but you have to keep objectivity
Howard's magic tam is better than the Heat with Mourning Hardaway and Mashburn ? Lmfao .... 98 pacers would take a dumb on the 2013/2014 pacers......the "great" Pistons team Lebron beat in 07 won 53 games in the regular season and were washed up ....the Celtics teams he beat were washed up plus he missed the playoffs twice
cado22286 Who did he beat in the finals tho because LeBron only beats dynastys with multiple stars
all those teams were weak besides the Shaq & Penny magic lmao
Bron, made it look that easy.
By the way Nick and Colin, you say that when MJ played, the talent wasn't as great.
Malone, Stockton, Barkley, Clyde, Magic, Bird, O'Neal, Thomas are 8 of the top 50 Greatest players of all time, so out of a possible 27 teams back then, 8 teams had 1 of the 50 greatest, the others had names such as, Ewing, Olajuwon, Robinson, Dominique Wilkins, Reggie miller, Alonzo Mourning.
Who does lebron play against today who even resembles those guys, Dwight 'I've hurt my back' Howard, Demarcus cousins, Tiago splitter.
Jordan played against better competition.
The only ones who deserve a mention as formidable foes for Lebron are Durant, Westbrook, Lillard, curry and potentially Klay Thompson. Other than that, that's it, and none of these guys other that Durant and Westbrook could've played against the physical nature of the NBA in Jordan's era, so your argument is very very very flawed.
When analysing, for future arguments, fake everything into consideration you stupid losers.
Fabrice Janson 😂😂😂agree
MJ stans Dont like to hear the facts nick was cookin 💥💥💥🔥🔥🔥🔥
Get em Nick! Preach, Kareem da goat
MJ had a perfect team!!.. People don't want to embrace that fact. MJ would not be winning in Lebron's place because he did not do it in his own career in similar circumstance..MJ won when he had a GREAT TEAM!!!
LeBron has had more talent on his teams than Jordan
@@AD-eq4kn i would pick jordan's team over lebron's team ..
@@AD-eq4kn mj never took a team like lebrons 07 cavs to a finals , plain and simple. Jordan got bounced in the first round with those kind of rosters, or didn’t make the playoffs at all.
I see what nick is saying but it's just a fact Lebron has to beat nostalgia that's never gonna happen
He well... When he becomes nostalgic!
Brandon Wavvy Lebron hasn't even amassed what Jordan did statistically and accolades wise. How is that nostalgia?
😂😂😂😂
Are you serious, Nick?
Nick: The Pistons got old?
- Well how did they get to the ECF that year? Did they cheat? Watch the documentary. Dumars said (on camera): "There was this fire in their eyes! Right then we knew we couldn't stop 'em!" Fact!
Nick: "Let's compare MJ and LeBron early in their careeers!"
- Aren't you forgetting, Nick, that in the 80s and 90s the league was FILLED with talent and superstars (Kareem, Hakeem, Magic, Worthy etc.)? How many superstars were there at the beginning of LeBron's career, except Kobe? How many Birds, Magics,Kareems and Bad Boys were there exactly during that period of time.... (I'll wait!)
Nick: "MJ lost to Bird's Celtics!"
- Ehm, Have you ever seen 1 player beat 3 players, 1 superstar beat 3? Bird, McHale, Parish vs. MJ?
Nick: ".…the Lakers weren't the Showtime Lakers...."
- How did they get to the NBA Finals that year?
They beat every team in the WC that year, including the Trailblazers, who were on fire that year!
Nick: " When Jordan left the Bulls went from 57 team to a 55 team!!"
- DID THEY WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP WITHOUT MJ? MJ left -> Bulls didn't win a championship.
MJ returned and the next season -> the Bulls win a 3-peat AGAIN! You're just going to 'forget to mention' that part, huh?
😂😂😂😂
And MJ took TWO 3-peats with 2 completely different teams (him and Scottie aside!) FACTS! 😌
Yeah, MJ got beat by Penny and Shaq in '95 and what did he do the next season after that and he was fit and trained and got back in his rhythm? That's right, Nick, MJ and the Bulls SWEPT them and the Magic never recovered! Shaw & Penny were the new dynamic duo, but after MJ's return they couldn't beat MJ and Scottie.... FACTS!
Come on now! If you're going to yell out: "FACTS!", you have to show ALL facts, not just a few selective facts which back up your tiny arguments!!
There are so many lies about Jordan
I LOOOOOVE Lebron. Kobe too. I'll even say that Lebron has passed Kobe in my all-time ranks. But Nick made me laugh when he talked about Jordan never defeating Bird in the playoffs. But, as always, they fail to mention that MJ has NEVER missed the playoffs in his entire career. ENTIRE career. Lebron & Kobe can't say that.
MJ made the playoffs his first 3 seasons by going 38-44, 30-52 and 40-42, I don't think that's the kind of argument you should be using in his favor LOL. Lebron missed the playofs twice when he was 19 and 20 years old by going 35-47 and 42-40,a better wiin ing pct than MJ's combined 3 first seasons at ages 21,22 and 23. It's just that in the 80s the league had really really poor depth (it has 2 maybe 3 really strong teams but the rest was pure garbage, not even medium level, it was the elite then the bad teams, there were very few good but not great squads, fortunately it started to chance in the 90s)
But don't get me wrong. I'm not taking anything away from King James. That dude is the sickest I've seen since Jordan.
Michael Lane when Lebron did miss he had winning records, when Jordan made it early in his career he had losing records
Michael Lane Jordan had college experience LeBron was fresh outta High school if Jordan was he would not have made the playoff .I also noticed you said he never missed the playoff well when he did get there from out of college he got swept lebron got there his 3rd year and did not get swept he actually advanced
*****
No doubt about that. Great point. Lebron is THE most gifted athlete I've EVER seen. And I've been following the game almost 50 years. You made a great point!
When I was a kid, living in Orlando, there was a Jordan Poster up at our local skating rink. No other player ever did that. Jordan's Bulls made basketball more famous. People watched the dunk contest for Jordan. He made player shoes a thing. I had Shaq's shoe in middle school. No other retired player has a shoe on the market. Why did Lebron even take 23? He can try to be the next Jordan, but nobody can replace the original.
IYPITWL cool story but nobody asked
Nick is also wrong on the greatest 5-year run in basketball history.
Magic between 84 and 88 (1 MVP, 3 titles, 5 finals, 1 finals MVP)
Moses between 79 and 83 (3 MVP, 1 title, 2 finals, 1 finals MVP)
Jordan between 89 and 93 (2 MVP, 3 titles, 3 finals, 3 finals MVP)
Shaq between 99 and 03 (1 MVP, 3 titles, 3 finals, 3 finals MVP)
Also, Kobe between 06 and 2010 (1 MVP, 2 titles, 3 finals, 2 finals MVP)
Nick is so much more respectful to Jordan fans than Jordan fans are towards anyone who disagrees with them.
You don’t believe that do you
Nick has a good argument
I dnt remember Jordan leaving the bulls because he couldn't get out of the east & I dnt remember Jordan losing in his "prime" ..........
He didn't have to leave because he had a team he could win with.
Jordan had 1 really good person in Pimpin and the rest of role players. Jordan didn't have 2 "big 3's" let alone losing with them lol
Edmund Clark So Dennis Rodman,Steve Kerr,and Horace Grant weren't good players? Yeah right.
Never said they weren't good, Kerr & Grant were role players. Dennis was there defensive rebounding guy
Horace and Rodman both were all defensive team players during the bulls championship years, Rodman led the league in rebouding and offensive rebouding the 3 years he was in Chicago and Pippen made the all defensive team every year from 91 to 98. MJ's, bird's and magic's teammates have combined to make 33 all defensive teams while playing with then, lebron's teammates have combined to make 1, and that was Varejão who made the all defense second team in 09/10 as a reserve. See I think MJ is the goat, but let's be clear, he, Magic and Bird all played with great 2 way players, yes lebron has had great teammates (even thought overall not as great as bird, magic or jordan) but neither Kyrie, Love, Bosh or a 2011-14 wade were elite defensively (bosh was pretty good thought), and althought MJ was a beast on defense as well, in his playoff runs lebron has had to play more defense than any of those 3 at any year. Also, of all those guys, lebron has faced the most superstars, especially at his own position, MJ only faced 1 top 10 SG of all time in Drextler (for example 4 of the top 10 played in lebron's era in Kobe, Wade, AI and Allen, while harden will probably end up as a top 10 SG as well) and lebron to win his first championship had to face in the same postseason Melo, the Granger/PG combo, Pierce and Durant; he also faces Kawhi (KD and pierce are top 10 SFs ever, Melo is top 15 while Kawhi has a chance to be top 15 or even top 10). MJ, Bird and Magic all played with guys that had won DPOY, they've always had much better 2 way players as teammates, so I do give lebron extra credit there
When Magic was a rookie, he was one of the players that made it possible for the Lakers to grab the championship trophy. When Bird was entered the NBA he was one of those who led Celtics from a 29-53 in the previous season to a 61-21. He then led Celtics to a championship a year later. Jordan wasn't like that. Jordan and the Bulls shone only when the great 80's teams were old and worn and most of the great team leaders like Erving, Jabar, Magic, Walton were gone and Bird, Thomas, Ewing were old.
Yall act like Jordan didn't have to go up against any greats. Barkley, Olajuan, Ewing, Stocton/ Maolne, David Robinson, etc. And the game was Waaaaay harder and more physical back then.
@@microb20 He did when those guys were at their prime Jordan was having a hard time keeping up the Bulls with them. When these guys were old on the verge of retirement in the 90's that is when Jordan and the Bulls showed up. That is fact. The Bulls had their first championship during the 90's. Deal with it.
@@tybuzz67 dude all the players he mentioned were in their prime in the 90s lol
jordan played a better generation than bron..they weren't as athletic but bb iq and team ball was better.everyone is about a brand and their stats
When the elite teams and players where around in 80s bulls did nothing till they got old and washed up. Look at the teams he played against in finals would you call those teams elite?
NBK Academy wrong, it was just all jordan that's why
NBK Academy I'd say they were elite, elite enough to get to the finals
1:17 Lmao. Imagine calling the 2x defending world champion team with 3 Hall of Famers all below the age of 30 a "mediocore" and "average" team.
At that point they were. The pistons had suffered many injuries that year and everyone knew that it was over even before they played the bulls.
@@bibo5854 They had suffered injuries yes but they were still a top team in the league. You don't call a team like that "average" or "mediocore". They weren't the same Pistons from their best years but by that logic, the Celtics in 2011 when Lebron finally beat them should also be classified as such.
@@Cooljoshua567 The celtics were classified as such lmao. I still have the newspaper on how most people predicted that the bulls were gonna beat the pistons in 5. No one thought the pistons were good anymore. They werent even reffered to as the bad boys. And the reason I say all this is because so many people today try to say that jordan single handedly beat the prime bad boy pistons when in fact they were a team full of injuries and personal problems. People value lebrons championship vs the warriors more than they do vs the spurs because, 1 the warriors were 73-9 and 2, because they were in their primes. The spurs were old. Its like me saying Lebron single handedly beat a prime spurs team with four hall of famers and the greatest head coach of all time. We all know thats wrong though.(Because three hall of famers were old and 1 hall of famer was to young).
@@bibo5854 Okay, that's fair. I just don't like how Nick Wright is trying to downplay all of Jordan's winning's but then ignoring that some of Lebron's wins come from that very same line of thinking.
He is the only player in NBA history to lead all players in all five categories for an entire playoff series"
I wonder who did this??????????????????????
Hmmmm?
therealtunkmaster mj did that for like a seas ppg block steals rebounds and I think assist but hey
Pocket La'dray no he didn't
lol. did you just lie.
Only rookie in NBA history to lead his team in four statistics ( 1984-85). Mj as a rookie
Overall, he was the team leader in 11 major categories. Only Oscar Robertson approached such dizzying heights in 1962, when he averaged a triple-double -- 30.8 points, 12.5 rebounds, 11.4 assists -- in a league that boasted more 6-foot guards than 7-foot centers. 86- 87 mj stop the madness these are known facts