This is exactly what I feel when I'm doing my dissertation on Elizabeth I. Sometimes you struggle to put your passion into words and then when you meet similar minded people you can't shut up :). Hope the tv adaptation is going to be as good as her books.
Well, it's 2021 - +6 years from your original comment & would find your thoughts on the TV adaptation interesting! I personally thought it was one of the best pieces of art produced from a 'novel', EVER - period. Kudos to Rylance, Lewis, Foy and Hill et al. Sublime. Now awaiting the inevitable Mirrors, Lights etc... :)
@@chrisbanks6659 I'd also find them interesting, though personally thought the tv adaptation was really disappointing. Dreary, paced too slowly and just didn't have the spark of the novel, and I thought Rylance's lack of charisma made Cromwell so boring. It seemed like he didn't have a sense of humour, which was really what made him so compelling in the novel..
wow, agree so much with fatparrot66 Wolf Hall great readnot the one dimensional, simplified pap we can name from some historical novellists! Beloved of the media! and the Beeb! Wolf Hall is a gem and the sequal, a must read for lovers of real history! David Starkey and Hilary Mantel have a genuine feel for history that's always worth listening to.
I am not from U.K. I am romania but I think U.K. is the greates country in the world. Extraordinary interesting history William Shakespeare Isaac Newton Anthony Hopkins Ian McKellen Ridley Scott Amy Winehouse Ozzy Osbourne and Hilary Mantel and David Starkey ofcourse and more
It is quite fascinating hearing Starkey here talk about mirrors. Mantel would go on to write _The Mirror and the Light,_ the final book in her Cromwell trilogy, and from the second book, _Bring Up the Bodies_ - written after this discussion - we see clear themes of mirrors distorting our view, how things are cast in a different light when these mirrors are adjusted just by small degrees. Really interesting.
You're a moron. Starkey has been considered the pre eminent Tudor historian for decades and was educated at Cambridge....Hilary Mantel just writes stories.
I loved wolf hall and bring up the bodies, both great books containing great prose, very unique. but I refuse to believe that Anne Boleyn was such a bitch; Mantel really does not give her much credit in the books. But then again I guess it wouldn't have worked otherwise, not for a Cromwell-centric story. Still... I fear Anne is potrayed very badly in both installments and this is the books' one great flaw. that lady was so much more than an ambitious, cold, scheming hysteric -- she was one of the most fascinating and gifted courtiers of her time, a queen with a religious vision and a self-made woman with an intelligence and spirit the equal of any man's. a truly great female
It's been a while since I read the first two books (I just finished the third), but I thought this bitchy, scheming impression is something of a convenient fiction created by the characters in the book because it suits them, since she has fallen out of favour. Throughout the trilogy, we see the truth about many characters' reputations twisted - and the truth rewritten - for political ends. Also, I believe the narrator to be steeped in the cultural milieu of the time, so that this twisted truth pervades the text; but the author leaves us enough information to see that certain characters' reputations have been tarnished. (The same point could also be applied to Thomas More, and perhaps the inverse to King Henry VIII).
Yeah like most female writers they can’t resist imposing a modern liberal worldview on to their subjects - speculating on emotions from a time so far removed that they cannot possibility imagine it….makes for best sellers, to an uneducated public, but the great danger is that history gets totally misunderstood by the current generation. The myths around WW2 and the rise of the Nazis is appalling for example….if we don’t learn from the past - indeed if we invent myths around OUR OWN views of the past - then we are doomed to repeat mankind’s mistakes over and over.
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This is exactly what I feel when I'm doing my dissertation on Elizabeth I. Sometimes you struggle to put your passion into words and then when you meet similar minded people you can't shut up :). Hope the tv adaptation is going to be as good as her books.
I'd love to read your dissertation
Well, it's 2021 - +6 years from your original comment & would find your thoughts on the TV adaptation interesting! I personally thought it was one of the best pieces of art produced from a 'novel', EVER - period. Kudos to Rylance, Lewis, Foy and Hill et al. Sublime. Now awaiting the inevitable Mirrors, Lights etc... :)
@@chrisbanks6659 I'd also find them interesting, though personally thought the tv adaptation was really disappointing. Dreary, paced too slowly and just didn't have the spark of the novel, and I thought Rylance's lack of charisma made Cromwell so boring. It seemed like he didn't have a sense of humour, which was really what made him so compelling in the novel..
Two great minds, sadly one is no longer…..RIP Ms Mantel
I just finished wolf hall (tv show) and hoped for a season 2.
I guess that’s not happening if the author is dead.
wow, agree so much with fatparrot66 Wolf Hall great readnot the one dimensional, simplified pap we can name from some historical novellists! Beloved of the media! and the Beeb! Wolf Hall is a gem and the sequal, a must read for lovers of real history! David Starkey and Hilary Mantel have a genuine feel for history that's always worth listening to.
David how do you replace a lightbulb?
"Well you see Disraeli..."
I love these two. I fucking love history
I love everything around Henry 8th the tyrant king
Lovely debate with 3 knowledgable people, 2 right wing and one left able to discuss
Excellent
I am not from U.K. I am romania but I think U.K. is the greates country in the world.
Extraordinary interesting history
William Shakespeare
Isaac Newton
Anthony Hopkins
Ian McKellen
Ridley Scott
Amy Winehouse
Ozzy Osbourne
and Hilary Mantel and David Starkey ofcourse
and more
The United States: Neil Armstrong and the 400,000 other Americans that sent him to the moon. Let's see any other country top that.
@@joevignolor4u949 China very soon...
Joe Vignolo Otto Von Braun ?
Lol
And all the talent brought over from the uk
Lol
@@joevignolor4u949 I'd recommend you Google Operation Paperclip and Wernher von Braun before boasting about 'American' achievements in reaching space.
@@phillipmorrison9607 Von Braun was just one man. It took 400,000 people to put men on the moon. Most of them were Americans.
It is quite fascinating hearing Starkey here talk about mirrors.
Mantel would go on to write _The Mirror and the Light,_ the final book in her Cromwell trilogy, and from the second book, _Bring Up the Bodies_ - written after this discussion - we see clear themes of mirrors distorting our view, how things are cast in a different light when these mirrors are adjusted just by small degrees.
Really interesting.
@ausendundeinenacht But we know a great deal about Hitler and Stalin from what they wrote about themselves, which is as close as anyone can get.
Hilary Mantel is a unique and gifted writer and historian. Much as I admire David Starkey, he comes across as a sometimes arrogant man.
You're a moron. Starkey has been considered the pre eminent Tudor historian for decades and was educated at Cambridge....Hilary Mantel just writes stories.
She distorts history in my opinion
I love her and him, inspite of himself.
Arrogance or not (I think not!) what has that to do with the facts he uses to show history as it unfolded?
She was a novelist, he is a historian. You can’t make a direct comparison.
I don't like the way she portrayed Thomas More.
Everything she said about the actions he did and the things he wrote were true.
Назвали убийцей
I loved wolf hall and bring up the bodies, both great books containing great prose, very unique. but I refuse to believe that Anne Boleyn was such a bitch; Mantel really does not give her much credit in the books. But then again I guess it wouldn't have worked otherwise, not for a Cromwell-centric story. Still... I fear Anne is potrayed very badly in both installments and this is the books' one great flaw. that lady was so much more than an ambitious, cold, scheming hysteric -- she was one of the most fascinating and gifted courtiers of her time, a queen with a religious vision and a self-made woman with an intelligence and spirit the equal of any man's. a truly great female
+TheLeaveTaking Could you tell me what is the subject of Bring up the bodies? Because I am confused. Does it narates also Cromwell's life? Thank you!
Yes, strong woman have been vilified in the monarchy. Hey Meghan.🤷🏾♀️
It's been a while since I read the first two books (I just finished the third), but I thought this bitchy, scheming impression is something of a convenient fiction created by the characters in the book because it suits them, since she has fallen out of favour. Throughout the trilogy, we see the truth about many characters' reputations twisted - and the truth rewritten - for political ends. Also, I believe the narrator to be steeped in the cultural milieu of the time, so that this twisted truth pervades the text; but the author leaves us enough information to see that certain characters' reputations have been tarnished.
(The same point could also be applied to Thomas More, and perhaps the inverse to King Henry VIII).
It was written from Cromwell's point of view, how he [may have] viewed her.
Unusual not to have a neck.
She looks like a mutant ninja turtle 🐢😲
An advantage in Tudor times.
Hiliary Mantell is Protestant Propaganda
Yeah like most female writers they can’t resist imposing a modern liberal worldview on to their subjects - speculating on emotions from a time so far removed that they cannot possibility imagine it….makes for best sellers, to an uneducated public, but the great danger is that history gets totally misunderstood by the current generation. The myths around WW2 and the rise of the Nazis is appalling for example….if we don’t learn from the past - indeed if we invent myths around OUR OWN views of the past - then we are doomed to repeat mankind’s mistakes over and over.
Good. The Catholic Church was an abomination of greed and sin at the time of her subject matter.
Some would argue it still is.
😂
Can you elaborate on that assertion?
@ColonelMuppet the idea that Mantel's writing is somehow overly emotional is absolutely laughable.
Waiting on the next installment of Thomas Cromwell’s story, ma’am, please!
March 2020 is when it is due to be released. Titled 'The Mirror and the Light'.
@@joehorne2808 It's here!!!
Yeh i know H8 was a brute but i can’t help feeling sorry for him.
Stay positive with Sherpa 😇♥️🐕🤗💙🤔💐👺😇♥️🐕🤗💯🇬🇧🌟