I've used this mixture (not the same batch) for finishing for over a year. It's easy and quick and looks good. Dry shellac flakes have a very long shelf life unlike liquids. I have flakes but am still using up the Zinsser products. A very good video, Rick, with lots of useful information.
I watched your video about friction polishing and it reminded me about an experience I had 1948 Junior High School Wood working class. I had turned a Black Walnut bowl and applied Shellac finish. The next day I put it on the lathe and used steel wool to smooth the finish. After a short time the Shellac got very hot and lumped up. I thought I'd ruined the finish until I noticed there were spots the were had a very nice shine. As I had nothing to lose I continued using a lot more steel wool and after a while the bowl had a beautiful smooth shine. Now I realize I had invented my own version of Friction Polishing.
@@RickTurnsWoodturning Another thing I remember about the Jr High wood shop was the metal lathe adapter plate used to attach the bowl to the lathe was not screwed directly on the bowl but rather a piece of wood was glued to the bowl with a piece of paper in between and then the metal adapter was attached to that piece of wood. After the bowl was finished A chisel was used to pop off the piece of wood and the bottom of the bowl was smoothed with sandpaper. it's been a long time ago I don't remember what king of paper was used.
Thanks for a very informative video! Some of what you said brought back memories of high school wood shop classes in the mid-1960's. A great refresher.
Thanks, Rick. I have the Seal Kote in my shop and it's a 2# cut and has no wax, and neither does the shellac in a rattle can. As I understand it the reason they don't put waxed shellac in a spray can is it will stop up the nozzle. I try and learn something new every day and you filled the bill for today.
This video was not long at all...,It was very informative , and I learned a lot about shellac . I do many gun stock restoration and Your french polish mix works very well. You are a very detailed instructor,,,Thanks for sharing ....Canada
I learnt so much from this thank you! I was about to go out and buy some Danish Oil to compare against my Linseed Oil. You saved me time and money, thank you
Thanks Rick !!! Just the information I needed to make my own friction polish. The ready made kind of is so expensive I’ve been a serious Woodworker for about a year since I retired. And I have throughly enjoyed my new hobby. My friends also have been impressed with the beautiful things I’ve made them thanks again Phillip McGhee MD
Great video The shelf life issue is another good reason to make your own FP. If you purchase a commercial FP, and it goes bad, you have wasted however much is left in the bottle. But if you make your own, you can make smaller quantities (I use a shop-made scoop made from a 35mm film canister to measure the components - the scoop holds a bit more than 1 oz of liquid) - so the fact that I'm mixing a smaller quantity means that I am more likely to use the entire mix before it goes bad. Commercial canned shellac has a shelf life although DNA and BLO tend to last for years. I use the Zinsser's Seal Coat Unwaxed product both to make FP and also to make a sanding sealer (mix 1:1 in DNA), so the one quart can tends to get used more rapidly than if I were using it only to make FP. It is also possible to purchase dry flakes or buttons and make your own liquid shellac - that almost totally eliminates the shelf life issue.
+Roger Leslie Thanks for the note, Roger. I kind of surprised that friction polish works in South Australia, seeing as how it would be applied upside-down and all. ;-)
thank you for the video. Question about boiled vs. unboiled linseed oil. I prefer the unboiled, as does my friend John< He's a pro, I am not. Are there any specific reasons why one would prefer one over the other, or is it just personal preference. I prefer the way unboiled cures.
thanks for responding. The big fear of oily rags, this is it, , , it does polymerize, and that is what causes spontaneous combustion. I takes forever to dry, it does eventually cure. I concocted a multi-ingredient finish which included unboiled linseed, bees wax, and shellac that took 3 weeks to harden, that was 8 years ago, and it still looks fine, and is quite resistant to water and other everyday use ( it is a saya I made for my guyoto). so it is exposed to relatively adverse conditions@@RickTurnsWoodturning
Thanks for the informative video, never tried friction polish in this way. Many years ago I used Deft on all my lathe projects applied like friction polish. It worked but not food safe I suppose. I will give your method a try for sure thank you.
Rick, do you recommend this for bottle stoppers? My issues are the alcohol in the bottle affecting the finish. Also, it seems shine juice is not meant for items that are handled a lot and better for static items such as bowls and ornaments. Thanks for the help and keep up the good work. Rick
You’re right, friction polish is not a very durable finish. Exposure to alcohol or even water will degrade the finish. As you said, friction polish is for items that are looked at and not handled. Thanks for watching and commenting, Rick.
I think that is true, but I haven’t tried it myself. Dilute shellac is used as a sanding sealer, and other finishes are put on top of it. So it’s probably okay.
Hi Rick, I'm a newbie in the wood turning, for the moment I turned many en and I'm very proud, but all of them are CA finish, so I'm looking for the frictinon finish and I looked your video about DIY Friction Polish, but the big problem, in Canada, we can't get any Denatured Alchool, when I do search on the web, the answer I get from Home Depot Canada is Recochem Methyl Hydrate, so I would like to if it can do the job? Thank you for all your video.
Yves , it’s known as denatured alcohol in the United States,but I believe in the UK and I suppose in Canada, it is known as methylated spirits or methyl hydrate.
I don't think so. The safety sheet on BLO indicates is safe to consume, but might cause slight stomach discomfort. After it cures in the wood, I don't think there would be any problems at all.
Yes, I use Zinnser's three pound mix. Zinnser is the only liquid shellac I've found around here. Sam Angelo (Wyoming Woodturner" channel on RUclips) has a video on mixing your own shellac from flakes.
Fantastic video mate, I am new to Wood Turning and cringed at the cost of the friction coating from the store lol, I got a bottle of Shellawax but thanks to this video I will make my own, Thank you :-)
Rick have used friction polishes but really don't care for them as they aren't as "durable" and have done some testing with shellac and walnut oil which I do like as the walnut oils will polymerize in the wood.
Wow 5 years old but just as applicable today! Thanks for doing this video. I watch the price of finishes go up like every time I go to the wood working store. I buy many finishes at estate sales andit can be years old, my boiled linseed oil smells a bit, is this normal?
Thanks for such in depth knowledge. Great videos. I have a question. How does the polish perform on things that aren't spinning on a lathe? For example I recently turned a carvers mallet. I can't polish the ends where it fixes to the lathe whilst it's spinning so if I take it off the lathe and cut it to size and then finish the ends with sanding and this polish, will there be a noticeable difference in the finish between the bits I polished on the lathe and the bits polished off the lathe?
I don't think it would give you the same high degree of gloss if applied off the lathe. You could try using a small buffing wheel in an electric drill to buff it right after you wipe it one - that might work.
There is one thing you may want to mention at a later time. Putting the friction polish in one of those plastic squeeze bottles, like what you show in the video, is ok if for a short period of time. The denatured alcohol will evaporate through the plastic and the bottle will seem to collapse in on it self over a week or two. So, if you are going to store the finish in one of these bottles, make sure you mark the level of finish on the side of the bottle. When you come back at a later time and find the level lower, just add more Denatured Alcohol to the level mark on the side of the bottle. Of course, after each use, this means one must remark the side of the bottle. I just use blue masking tape and use one of the straight edges to mark the level. A solution to this issue is to store the polishing mixture in a plastic soda pop bottle or glass mason jar. The alcohol will not evaporate through any of these containers. Thanks for the nice videos!!
RickTurns Yes...those little squeeze bottles like what you get at Harbor Freight, the $1 stores, etc are not good for storing alcohol based products. Instead use a soda pop bottle since it is made of a different type plastic. I remember Captain Eddie Castelin saying something about this in one of his videos. When you store alcohol in those squeeze bottles, they will tend to collapse inwards as the alcohol evaporates. You may have noticed this already and not realized what was happening.
Thanks for the informative video. I want to try mixing my own but have a question. If I don't mix enough and run out while finishing a project and don't cover the entire project can I start where I left off to finish the first or subsequent coat(s)? What brand of wax or oil do you recommend and where can I find it? 😊 Last question.... What is a good website or reference on ratios for making your own shellac or friction polish?
Hi, Ron. Sorry for the long delay in answering you. As far as I know, there wouldn't be a problem with only applying friction polish to one section of a workpiece, and then later applying the rest...I've never tried that myself...I only use friction polish on small items where let's very easy to do the whole piece at once.
I don't have a website to recommend, at least for a definitive reference. Of all the various websites I've looked at, every one gave the 1:1:1 ratio of denatured alcohol, shellac, and boiled linseed oil.
Great explanation video. I love to know more about what I’m working with. I live in California, where we can no longer buy denatured alcohol. Is there anything I can use instead? Like acetone? I use this to cut my shellac when applying thin coats.
Hi Rick good information but i can only get the shellac flakes in the UK do you know what proportions i need to use. Do i mix the shellac and alcohol first to melt the shellac then add the oil. Do i use the blonde de waxed shellac i don't know if you can help me if not it does not matter. Thank you Pete
+Peter Mitchell Hi, Pete. You mix liquid shellac by pound-cut. A 2 pound cut is 2 pounds of shellac flakes to 1 gallon of alcohol. For a friction polish, you want to end up with a 2 pound cut or less. Buying shellac by the pound is pretty expensive. So you might want to start with 8 oz of shellac flakes, for which you would use 1 quart of alcohol. To make it easy, take a look at www.shellac.net/PoundCutChart.html. Mix the flakes and alcohol first, and give it some time for flakes to fully dissolve. Then add the boiled linseed oil. Here's a pretty good video on the process of making liquid shellac: ruclips.net/video/aV11siPaJ_o/видео.html Good luck with it. I'd love to hear how it works out! Rick
In England it’s hard to get ethanol. I’ve tried to dissolve shellac in methanol (methylated spirits). It did not work. So I presume denatured alcohol is ethanol poisoned with a lesser amount of methanol and not what we know as methylated spirits, which is purple and smells different from ethanol.
When I looked up “denatured alcohol England”, I got results that said “methylated spirits” was the same thing, but I don’t know for sure that’s accurate. Since you’ve tried it and it didn’t work, I guess that a no-go. Perhaps Amazon UK has it? That’s for watching Jim.
Hi, Alex. My understanding is that danish oil is a mixture of about 1/3 varnish and 2/3 tung or linseed oil. With the varnish in it , it might not be be best thing to use. You could use tung oil or walnut oil.
It's also possible to dissolve the wax in mineral spirits, I believe. You could add that to the mix. Or you could drop some wax into the mix and heat to melt the wax. I tried that one time, but I never got as good a finish as I got with the "pure" friction polish. However, look down a couple of comments and you'll see where Erik is using both carnauba and beeswax in his blend.
Thanks for the lowdown, Rick. You're my kind of folk, I want to know everything about everything. I have to wonder why Zinsser contains any water at all if it is detrimental to the finish. My guess is that they're using the 91% stuff themselves, adding more just waters it down too much.
Alcohol by nature likes to absorb water. That's why it is used in gasoline deicer (Heet etc.) as it quickly absorbs the free water and becomes a carrier and runs it through the fuel system in cars and burns it up etc. That said, alcohol is more expensive to purchase as "pure" (200 proof). It's hard to chase out 100% of the water that is easily attracted to alcohol so manufactures will often use 190 proof alcohol (95% alcohol/5% water) which is much less expensive and typically seems to work about as well as 200 proof in most applications. That's why Zinsser shows "water" on their label analysis. Hope this helps, Myles
+Robert Kutz Thanks, Bob. No, the friction polish goes onto the bare wood. I do put on the first coat with the lathe off, to ensure all parts get covered. Then I switch on the lathe and polish.
Hi Rick Thanks for the tutorial. Denatured alcohol or methylated spirits here in UK has a purple dye added. I'm wondering if that will make a difference? Anyway I'm going to try it. Also Danish Oil has other ingredients ( I can't remember what atm). Danish Oil was formulated for producing the semi matt finish on Danish furniture, popular in the 1950s/60s.
I’d worry about the purple dye getting into the wood. I have read that most danish oil formulations contain a dryer, but I don’t know that for sure. You could use pure tung oil...it’s available from Amazon. Thanks for watching!
Hi Rick, Excellent video! I'm fairly new to wood turning and appreciate your help. How long does it take for the 3 component system to dry/cure hard? I have been using some of the Myland's Cellulose Sanding Sealer and it seems to work ok and dries fairly quickly...sometimes almost too fast to spread evenly on a larger project but it is nice as I can finish the process soon and not have to wait several hours for it to cure. I'm wondering how your formula "compares'" in open time and overall dry time? Do you suggest a second coat or a top coat/finish of some sort? I just subscribed to your site would appreciate any feed back you can provide. Thanks again, Myles
Friction polish dries immediately as you put it on - that’s one of the nice things about it. Here’s a link to my video where I show how to use it: ruclips.net/video/LN3XO91iRuM/видео.html. I usually put on two coats, and it doesn’t need any topcoat of anything else - although I’ll usually put some carnuba wax on for a little more protection. Friction polish works great for small work, but it does dry really fast, so for larger work, it isn’t generally used. Most sanding sealer are really just diluted shellac. I’m not sure if that is the case with the Mylands product, since it says “cellulose”. Lacquer is very quick-drying and many turners use it on larger projects. I generally I use a wiping varnish on bowls, as it’s more durable than friction polish - friction polish is stained by contact with water.
the reason there is water in denatured alcohol is that ethyl alcohol forms an azeotrope with water that boil at a lower temperature that pure ethyl alcohol. this means the the best one can do distilling ethyl alcohol is 95.5%. 100% can be made with a rather complex process. Read expensive.
That was a lot of great information Rick! You answered pretty much all of my questions about friction polish. (especially not to drink it... whew!, I was about to pour myself a shot... ;) ) LOL! Thanks for sharing this, Rick!
Thanks Rick, I make my own already and I use some waxes in mine as well as you mentioned and I use both bees and carnauba. I am using this almost exclusively!
I've never tried that. It might work, but mineral oil is a lot thicker than boiled linseed oil. Also, the shellac in the mixture is going to darken the wood. Good luck with it!
@@RickTurnsWoodturning Dear Sir, I have some beautiful purple heart. Excluding a CA finish, I am looking for a near crystal clear glossy finish for. Do you have a video on such a topic or ideas, thanks. Love your satire.
Hi, Charles. For a crystal clear finish, you're pretty much looking just at lacquer, sprayed on. It's a bit of a challenge - takes a lot of coats and sanding between coats. If you just want a high gloss finish, that's a lot easier. Wiping varnish is easy to apply and four coats will give you a really good finish - it will however darken the wood just a little when you apply it the first time. If you don't want that slight darkening, use water-based wiping varnish (I use Minwax Water Based Polycrylic www.amazon.com/Minwax-65555444-Polycrylic-Protective-Finish/dp/B000Y4DWC0/ref=sr_1_7?crid=5XH94U6PMYA3&dchild=1&keywords=minwax+polycrylic+protective+finish&qid=1611348822&sprefix=minwa%2Caps%2C151&sr=8-7). Hope that helps!
@@RickTurnsWoodturning thank you so much for the wealth of information I have some gorgeous purple heart waste blocks to try it on. Whatever you do, keep up the humor.
Hi Rick , Lots of info here that I found very interesting , many thanks for sharing and I will keep an eye out for the next polishing video. All the best Bram.
Yes, tung oil is food-safe. In my video "An Absolutely Positively Food-safe Friction Polish" (ruclips.net/video/CTXxcSP_Njo/видео.html), I do discuss that.
i got the smaller can of that bullseye clear shellac and that same brand of boiled linseed oil, will it be a good shine 1:1 of shellac and boiled linseed, and not add the extra alcohol?
About the shelf life I have had mine in a sauce squeeze bottle for about three years and it still works great. However I don't think I have any metho left in the mix.
My understanding is that it can be used instead of denatured alcohol. I found references that indicated it is used commercially as a dilutant in shellac, which is what you would be using it for. The MSDS's that I looked at indicated it is pure methanol, which is used to "denature" ethanol to make denatured alcohol. So, sure, you should be okay using it (but don't drink it!).
You could start with Zinnsers Sanding Sealer, which is a diluted shellac - not quite as diluted as friction polish, but better than the standard four-pound cut. Then add your BLO. Or you could use rubbing alcohol - that won’t work as well as DNA, but it’s better than nothing. Or you could bite the bullet and pay a lot and get a commercial friction polish like Mylands (amzn.to/32oKsuK) or Shellawax (amzn.to/31pbRLC). Good luck!
I also live in California and I do not think your statement is true, I just bought some from Home Depot. However, I tried Lowes first and they had just removed all of their denatured alcohol from the shelf. I believe it was an issue with their brand and not all DA. Try some different stores and if that fails verify if it is a municipal ban or a state ban. If I am wrong, please let me/us know. Good Luck, Rick.
@@rickmunroe4159 I also had just bought some at HD and 2 weeks later it was gone (last week, Oct16, 2019). I talked to the sales guy and he said some store people came in and took it all off the shelf and didn't tell him why. I guess a lot of folks are going to Nevada to get it but that's too far for me. I don't know if anyone will ship it to Ca. Everything I could dig up on the internet says it's banned and not available anywhere, along with everclear which also is supposed to work. Now I am trying to find 99% anhydrous isopropolyne (rubbing alcohol) which I guess works too. Rumor has it that it's also on the banned list. Best I can do so far is 91% which I have read has too much water in it to work. It may work with already mixed but won't dissolve flakes (all from my research, not tried). I feel sorry for the people who have alcohol stoves. I read where one guy just installed one on his boat and now can't get the fuel.
Yes indeed. Zinnser sells a sanding sealer which is really just a 2lb cut of shellac. For tearout, though, I don't think it's thick enough to fill the voids, if that's what you had in mind.
If your a shellac purist (some might say snob...) try mixing the flakes with Everclear - 95% alcohol and available from your local liquor store. That's what period furniture restorers use when repairing shellac finishes on precious antiques. Myself, I'm with you. I use denatured alcohol. It's cheaper.
Yep, it's Everclear that I recommend in my video "An Absolutely Positively Food-safe Friction Polish" (ruclips.net/video/CTXxcSP_Njo/видео.html). I didn't realize that furniture restorers used it. Thanks for the information!
I learned about it from watching Don Williams videos. He retired to move on to other projects (donsbarn.com/the-barn/), but he was Senior Furniture Conservator at the Smithsonian Institution for 30 years. I see by the date I was only two years behind the curve on you. I just discovered your channel and am binging to catch up. Very good stuff!
Interesting facts regarding shellac. Tried the mixture on a mesquite bowl I just turned and it looks pretty nice. My zinzzer shellac was a couple years old and was sticky a bit. Will be picking up some new fresh ingredients. Thanks for the great video Rick.
Hi, Enrico. Friction polish is hard when dried, but it is not a very durable finish. It will be damaged by handling. I use mainly on small items which will not be picked or used for anything.
Thank you for the detailed information, just what I was looking for! As for your jokes...well let’s just say keep your day job. Stand-up comedy isn’t your strong suit:)
Whew, between this video "what friction polish is and how to make it" and the next video "use and abuse of friction polish", it's over an hour! Even at double speed that's hard to take.
Not a secret, called OB shine juice brought to you by Capt Eddie. Now that recipe is not ideal as oil will float and the finish will dull over time. Try my recipe, FRENCHY'S shine juice: 10% BLO, 30% DA, and 60% shellac, will build a finish faster, more durable and will retain its shine over time.
Nope, not a secret at all - I’ve been using it for years. Cap’n Eddie named it OB shine juice. Thanks for your formula, I’ll try it out when I get my woodturning workshop going again.
Rick, a whole lot of information here. I always begin my finishes with 3 coats of shellac and spun dry, no matter what type of top coat I use.SAFE TURNING, John
I've used this mixture (not the same batch) for finishing for over a year. It's easy and quick and looks good. Dry shellac flakes have a very long shelf life unlike liquids. I have flakes but am still using up the Zinsser products. A very good video, Rick, with lots of useful information.
Thank you, Paul.
I watched your video about friction polishing and it reminded me about an experience I had 1948 Junior High School Wood working class. I had turned a Black Walnut bowl and applied Shellac finish. The next day I put it on the lathe and used steel wool to smooth the finish. After a short time the Shellac got very hot and lumped up. I thought I'd ruined the finish until I noticed there were spots the were had a very nice shine. As I had nothing to lose I continued using a lot more steel wool and after a while the bowl had a beautiful smooth shine. Now I realize I had invented my own version of Friction Polishing.
I never thought of using steel wool + I’m going to try that out. Thanks for the tip!
@@RickTurnsWoodturning Another thing I remember about the Jr High wood shop was the metal lathe adapter plate used to attach the bowl to the lathe was not screwed directly on the bowl but rather a piece of wood was glued to the bowl with a piece of paper in between and then the metal adapter was attached to that piece of wood. After the bowl was finished A chisel was used to pop off the piece of wood and the bottom of the bowl was smoothed with sandpaper. it's been a long time ago I don't remember what king of paper was used.
@@glennhaley1864 I don't remember either but it seems like my woodshop teacher used newspaper or notebook paper
I tried your friction rub and it is AWESOME! It’s like
French polish light. It’s so easy and gives a great finish.
+Dr Fred Hoeppner Thank you, Fred!
Thanks for a very informative video! Some of what you said brought back memories of high school wood shop classes in the mid-1960's. A great refresher.
Thanks for watching, Graeme.
Thanks, Rick. I have the Seal Kote in my shop and it's a 2# cut and has no wax, and neither does the shellac in a rattle can. As I understand it the reason they don't put waxed shellac in a spray can is it will stop up the nozzle. I try and learn something new every day and you filled the bill for today.
Thank you, Don.
This video was not long at all...,It was very informative , and I learned a lot about shellac . I do many gun stock restoration and Your french polish mix works very well. You are a very detailed instructor,,,Thanks for sharing ....Canada
Thank you for your comments!
I learnt so much from this thank you! I was about to go out and buy some Danish Oil to compare against my Linseed Oil. You saved me time and money, thank you
Thanks for commenting, Andrew.
Thanks for the information Rick. I think the formula is well known but the depth of information you provided gives a much better understanding!
Thank you, Casper.
I just new that deep down somewhere inside you there was a sensible side .... fantastic research Rick thanks very much for the info
I try to keep my sensible side hidden. Thanks for watching, Steven.
Thanks Rick !!! Just the information I needed to make my own friction polish. The ready made kind of is so expensive I’ve been a serious Woodworker for about a year since I retired. And I have throughly enjoyed my new hobby. My friends also have been impressed with the beautiful things I’ve made them thanks again Phillip McGhee MD
Thanks for watching and commenting, Phillip.
Hi Rick as a newbie to wood Turner this is valuable info Thankyou for putting it out.
Thanks for watching and commenting, Michael.
So happy that you're still in the wagon!
Thanks for watching, John.
Ive made it with pure tung oil and it works great. To me it gives a bit more of a golden color. Thanks for the video
I have another video recommending just that! I think it!s probably a better option than BLO, especially if you’re concerned about it being food-safe.
Great video
The shelf life issue is another good reason to make your own FP. If you purchase a commercial FP, and it goes bad, you have wasted however much is left in the bottle. But if you make your own, you can make smaller quantities (I use a shop-made scoop made from a 35mm film canister to measure the components - the scoop holds a bit more than 1 oz of liquid) - so the fact that I'm mixing a smaller quantity means that I am more likely to use the entire mix before it goes bad.
Commercial canned shellac has a shelf life although DNA and BLO tend to last for years. I use the Zinsser's Seal Coat Unwaxed product both to make FP and also to make a sanding sealer (mix 1:1 in DNA), so the one quart can tends to get used more rapidly than if I were using it only to make FP. It is also possible to purchase dry flakes or buttons and make your own liquid shellac - that almost totally eliminates the shelf life issue.
+Louie Powell Thanks for the information, Louie!
Louie Powell What is the average shelf life for commercial canned Shellac and what is DNA and BLO?
Great explanation of the polish, I’ve been using it on just about everything I do now. It’s so easy to work with
Thank you, Dave!
Excellent info. I have read most of what you said, but a review is always good. Looking forward to the next installment.
+Mark Hazlewood Thank you, Mark!
Thankyou Rick for the polish update. I use the 1to1to1 Polish mix as most of us do.Thankyou Roger Barossa Valley South Australia.........
+Roger Leslie Thanks for the note, Roger. I kind of surprised that friction polish works in South Australia, seeing as how it would be applied upside-down and all. ;-)
Great video Rick!
Thanks for watching, EA.
So very thorough and jovial. I think your inner comedian was trying to get out, lol. Great stuff, just what I needed to know. Thank you.
Thanks, MrJoey.
Thanks Rick , lot of good information you handed out ,it is well received .
+Stan Judd Thanks, Judd.
Thanks Rick. Very informative. Appreciate all your research.
Thanks for watching!
Denatured alcohol is Methel Hydrate in Canada
Thanks for the info, Steve.
thank you for the video. Question about boiled vs. unboiled linseed oil. I prefer the unboiled, as does my friend John< He's a pro, I am not. Are there any specific reasons why one would prefer one over the other, or is it just personal preference. I prefer the way unboiled cures.
I’ve never used unboiled linseed oil. What I’ve read about is that it never dries. Sounds like you’re getting better results than that.
thanks for responding. The big fear of oily rags, this is it, , , it does polymerize, and that is what causes spontaneous combustion. I takes forever to dry, it does eventually cure. I concocted a multi-ingredient finish which included unboiled linseed, bees wax, and shellac that took 3 weeks to harden, that was 8 years ago, and it still looks fine, and is quite resistant to water and other everyday use ( it is a saya I made for my guyoto). so it is exposed to relatively adverse conditions@@RickTurnsWoodturning
Thanks for the informative video, never tried friction polish in this way. Many years ago I used Deft on all my lathe projects applied like friction polish. It worked but not food safe I suppose. I will give your method a try for sure thank you.
Thanks for your comments, Mike!
Loads of very relevant information Rick. Great video.
Cheers
Mike
+Mike Waldt Thanks you, Mike.
RickTurns nhh
Rick, do you recommend this for bottle stoppers? My issues are the alcohol in the bottle affecting the finish. Also, it seems shine juice is not meant for items that are handled a lot and better for static items such as bowls and ornaments. Thanks for the help and keep up the good work. Rick
You’re right, friction polish is not a very durable finish. Exposure to alcohol or even water will degrade the finish. As you said, friction polish is for items that are looked at and not handled. Thanks for watching and commenting, Rick.
@@RickTurnsWoodturning I understand I can put a finish, such as Lacquer, over the shine juice. Is this true? Any secrets or cautions? Thanks, Rick
I think that is true, but I haven’t tried it myself. Dilute shellac is used as a sanding sealer, and other finishes are put on top of it. So it’s probably okay.
Hi Rick, I'm a newbie in the wood turning, for the moment I turned many en and I'm very proud, but all of them are CA finish, so I'm looking for the frictinon finish and I looked your video about DIY Friction Polish, but the big problem, in Canada, we can't get any Denatured Alchool, when I do search on the web, the answer I get from Home Depot Canada is Recochem Methyl Hydrate, so I would like to if it can do the job?
Thank you for all your video.
Yves , it’s known as denatured alcohol in the United States,but I believe in the UK and I suppose in Canada, it is known as methylated spirits or methyl hydrate.
Very informative and interesting video. Is there any benefit from the safety standpoint in replacing the BLO component with Tried and True?
I don't think so. The safety sheet on BLO indicates is safe to consume, but might cause slight stomach discomfort. After it cures in the wood, I don't think there would be any problems at all.
The zinsser shellac, is that a 3lb mix? It's not easily available in the UK so looks like I'll need to make my ob with flakes.
Yes, I use Zinnser's three pound mix. Zinnser is the only liquid shellac I've found around here. Sam Angelo (Wyoming Woodturner" channel on RUclips) has a video on mixing your own shellac from flakes.
This is exactly what I’ve been looking for. Thank you
Thank you, Eric.
Fantastic video mate, I am new to Wood Turning and cringed at the cost of the friction coating from the store lol, I got a bottle of Shellawax but thanks to this video I will make my own, Thank you :-)
Thanks, Alex!
Rick have used friction polishes but really don't care for them as they aren't as "durable" and have done some testing with shellac and walnut oil which I do like as the walnut oils will polymerize in the wood.
I’ve thought about using walnut oil and tung oil instead of BLO, but have never got around to trying it out. Thanks for the tip, Scott.
Hi Rick, lots of very interesting information, look forward to your next polishing video,
Best wishes
Harry
+The Little Garden Shed Workshop Thanks you, Harry.
Thanks for sharing Rick. Is this similar to Cap'n Eddie's shine juice? Ed
Yes, it is, Ed. Same formula.
Wow 5 years old but just as applicable today! Thanks for doing this video. I watch the price of finishes go up like every time I go to the wood working store. I buy many finishes at estate sales andit can be years old, my boiled linseed oil smells a bit, is this normal?
I’m not sure what the useful life of blo is. It usually doesn’t have much of an odor though. I think I’d get rid of it. Thanks for watching, Aubrey.
Thanks Rick. Lots of good info. That helped a lot.
Thanks for watching, James.
Thanks for the video with a wealth of information.
Thanks for commenting!
Thanks for such in depth knowledge. Great videos. I have a question. How does the polish perform on things that aren't spinning on a lathe? For example I recently turned a carvers mallet. I can't polish the ends where it fixes to the lathe whilst it's spinning so if I take it off the lathe and cut it to size and then finish the ends with sanding and this polish, will there be a noticeable difference in the finish between the bits I polished on the lathe and the bits polished off the lathe?
I don't think it would give you the same high degree of gloss if applied off the lathe. You could try using a small buffing wheel in an electric drill to buff it right after you wipe it one - that might work.
You can't get the pretty circles doing it by hand. You can look up French polish but it's pretty hard to master
There is one thing you may want to mention at a later time. Putting the friction polish in one of those plastic squeeze bottles, like what you show in the video, is ok if for a short period of time. The denatured alcohol will evaporate through the plastic and the bottle will seem to collapse in on it self over a week or two. So, if you are going to store the finish in one of these bottles, make sure you mark the level of finish on the side of the bottle. When you come back at a later time and find the level lower, just add more Denatured Alcohol to the level mark on the side of the bottle. Of course, after each use, this means one must remark the side of the bottle. I just use blue masking tape and use one of the straight edges to mark the level.
A solution to this issue is to store the polishing mixture in a plastic soda pop bottle or glass mason jar. The alcohol will not evaporate through any of these containers.
Thanks for the nice videos!!
Thanks for the information, Galsscutr. I didn't realize the alcohol would evaporate through the plastic.
RickTurns
Yes...those little squeeze bottles like what you get at Harbor Freight, the $1 stores, etc are not good for storing alcohol based products. Instead use a soda pop bottle since it is made of a different type plastic.
I remember Captain Eddie Castelin saying something about this in one of his videos. When you store alcohol in those squeeze bottles, they will tend to collapse inwards as the alcohol evaporates. You may have noticed this already and not realized what was happening.
GREAT VIDEO VERY IN INFORMATIVE THANK YOU FROM DOUG
And thanks again for watching, Doug.
Thank you sir
Thanks for the informative video. I want to try mixing my own but have a question. If I don't mix enough and run out while finishing a project and don't cover the entire project can I start where I left off to finish the first or subsequent coat(s)? What brand of wax or oil do you recommend and where can I find it? 😊 Last question.... What is a good website or reference on ratios for making your own shellac or friction polish?
Hi, Ron. Sorry for the long delay in answering you. As far as I know, there wouldn't be a problem with only applying friction polish to one section of a workpiece, and then later applying the rest...I've never tried that myself...I only use friction polish on small items where let's very easy to do the whole piece at once.
I don't look for a brand name for any of the three ingredients. They're all very common items.
I don't have a website to recommend, at least for a definitive reference. Of all the various websites I've looked at, every one gave the 1:1:1 ratio of denatured alcohol, shellac, and boiled linseed oil.
Great explanation video. I love to know more about what I’m working with. I live in California, where we can no longer buy denatured alcohol. Is there anything I can use instead? Like acetone? I use this to cut my shellac when applying thin coats.
What a great video - very informative and useful for the beginner, i.e. me! Thanks.
Thank you, Peedlebum!
Great video matey, i am new to wood turning and this is going to help me otu so much. Cheers.
Thanks for commenting, Paul.
Hi Rick good information but i can only get the shellac flakes in the UK do you know what proportions i need to use. Do i mix the shellac and alcohol first to melt the shellac then add the oil. Do i use the blonde de waxed shellac i don't know if you can help me if not it does not matter.
Thank you
Pete
+Peter Mitchell Hi, Pete. You mix liquid shellac by pound-cut. A 2 pound cut is 2 pounds of shellac flakes to 1 gallon of alcohol. For a friction polish, you want to end up with a 2 pound cut or less. Buying shellac by the pound is pretty expensive. So you might want to start with 8 oz of shellac flakes, for which you would use 1 quart of alcohol. To make it easy, take a look at www.shellac.net/PoundCutChart.html. Mix the flakes and alcohol first, and give it some time for flakes to fully dissolve. Then add the boiled linseed oil. Here's a pretty good video on the process of making liquid shellac: ruclips.net/video/aV11siPaJ_o/видео.html
Good luck with it. I'd love to hear how it works out!
Rick
+Peter Mitchell And blonde dewaxed flakes should work fine. It will give you about as colorless a mixture as you can get with shelllac.
RickTurns Thank you very much for the information i will have to order my flakes now and give it a go
Thank you again
Pete
In England it’s hard to get ethanol. I’ve tried to dissolve shellac in methanol (methylated spirits). It did not work. So I presume denatured alcohol is ethanol poisoned with a lesser amount of methanol and not what we know as methylated spirits, which is purple and smells different from ethanol.
When I looked up “denatured alcohol England”, I got results that said “methylated spirits” was the same thing, but I don’t know for sure that’s accurate. Since you’ve tried it and it didn’t work, I guess that a no-go. Perhaps Amazon UK has it? That’s for watching Jim.
could the boiled linseed oil be changed out for something like danish oil?
Hi, Alex. My understanding is that danish oil is a mixture of about 1/3 varnish and 2/3 tung or linseed oil. With the varnish in it , it might not be be best thing to use. You could use tung oil or walnut oil.
Thanks Rick, very informative, but how would you get carnuba wax in the mix. Isn't it a solid?
Dean Mailheau You would put the wax directly onto your buffing wheel
It's also possible to dissolve the wax in mineral spirits, I believe. You could add that to the mix. Or you could drop some wax into the mix and heat to melt the wax. I tried that one time, but I never got as good a finish as I got with the "pure" friction polish. However, look down a couple of comments and you'll see where Erik is using both carnauba and beeswax in his blend.
Awesome!!!! ty my go 2 turning finish .this video is very informative.
Thanks for watching, James.
Deft also makes a liquid shellac but it's hard to find. Ace hardware sometimes carries it.
Thanks for the tip!
NotMyName I live in Ireland, cannot find clear shellac anywhere
Thanks for the lowdown, Rick. You're my kind of folk, I want to know everything about everything. I have to wonder why Zinsser contains any water at all if it is detrimental to the finish. My guess is that they're using the 91% stuff themselves, adding more just waters it down too much.
Thanks for watching, forrest.
Alcohol by nature likes to absorb water. That's why it is used in gasoline deicer (Heet etc.) as it quickly absorbs the free water and becomes a carrier and runs it through the fuel system in cars and burns it up etc. That said, alcohol is more expensive to purchase as "pure" (200 proof). It's hard to chase out 100% of the water that is easily attracted to alcohol so manufactures will often use 190 proof alcohol (95% alcohol/5% water) which is much less expensive and typically seems to work about as well as 200 proof in most applications. That's why Zinsser shows "water" on their label analysis. Hope this helps, Myles
rick great info.on friction polish. do you use sanding sealer first? thank you bob
+Robert Kutz Thanks, Bob. No, the friction polish goes onto the bare wood. I do put on the first coat with the lathe off, to ensure all parts get covered. Then I switch on the lathe and polish.
Hi Rick Thanks for the tutorial. Denatured alcohol or methylated spirits here in UK has a purple dye added. I'm wondering if that will make a difference?
Anyway I'm going to try it. Also Danish Oil has other ingredients ( I can't remember what atm). Danish Oil was formulated for producing the semi matt finish on Danish furniture, popular in the 1950s/60s.
I’d worry about the purple dye getting into the wood. I have read that most danish oil formulations contain a dryer, but I don’t know that for sure. You could use pure tung oil...it’s available from Amazon. Thanks for watching!
Thanks Really enjoyed your video.. Very interesting .. Learned a lot Thanks
Thanks, Robert!
Hi Rick, Excellent video! I'm fairly new to wood turning and appreciate your help. How long does it take for the 3 component system to dry/cure hard? I have been using some of the Myland's Cellulose Sanding Sealer and it seems to work ok and dries fairly quickly...sometimes almost too fast to spread evenly on a larger project but it is nice as I can finish the process soon and not have to wait several hours for it to cure. I'm wondering how your formula "compares'" in open time and overall dry time? Do you suggest a second coat or a top coat/finish of some sort? I just subscribed to your site would appreciate any feed back you can provide. Thanks again, Myles
Friction polish dries immediately as you put it on - that’s one of the nice things about it. Here’s a link to my video where I show how to use it: ruclips.net/video/LN3XO91iRuM/видео.html. I usually put on two coats, and it doesn’t need any topcoat of anything else - although I’ll usually put some carnuba wax on for a little more protection. Friction polish works great for small work, but it does dry really fast, so for larger work, it isn’t generally used. Most sanding sealer are really just diluted shellac. I’m not sure if that is the case with the Mylands product, since it says “cellulose”. Lacquer is very quick-drying and many turners use it on larger projects. I generally I use a wiping varnish on bowls, as it’s more durable than friction polish - friction polish is stained by contact with water.
the reason there is water in denatured alcohol is that ethyl alcohol forms an azeotrope with water that boil at a lower temperature that pure ethyl alcohol. this means the the best one can do distilling ethyl alcohol is 95.5%. 100% can be made with a rather complex process. Read expensive.
I didn't know any of that. Thanks for the info, Bill.
That was a lot of great information Rick! You answered pretty much all of my questions about friction polish. (especially not to drink it... whew!, I was about to pour myself a shot... ;) ) LOL!
Thanks for sharing this, Rick!
+Jerry Paul Thanks for commenting, Jerry. Yeah, I was kinda bummed out about not drinking it instead of orange juice for breakfast.
Thanks for sharing the information. Very informative.
+Vincent Chan Thanks for commenting, Vincent!
Thanks Rick, I make my own already and I use some waxes in mine as well as you mentioned and I use both bees and carnauba. I am using this almost exclusively!
+Erik Anderson Thanks for commenting, Erik. What mixture of wax do you use?
+RickTurns I use a 1/2 cup of each carnauba and bees wax per quart of finished product.
Can mineral oil be substituted for linseed oil so the wood won't be darkened by the linseed oil
I've never tried that. It might work, but mineral oil is a lot thicker than boiled linseed oil. Also, the shellac in the mixture is going to darken the wood. Good luck with it!
@@RickTurnsWoodturning Dear Sir, I have some beautiful purple heart. Excluding a CA finish, I am looking for a near crystal clear glossy finish for. Do you have a video on such a topic or ideas, thanks. Love your satire.
Hi, Charles. For a crystal clear finish, you're pretty much looking just at lacquer, sprayed on. It's a bit of a challenge - takes a lot of coats and sanding between coats. If you just want a high gloss finish, that's a lot easier. Wiping varnish is easy to apply and four coats will give you a really good finish - it will however darken the wood just a little when you apply it the first time. If you don't want that slight darkening, use water-based wiping varnish (I use Minwax Water Based Polycrylic www.amazon.com/Minwax-65555444-Polycrylic-Protective-Finish/dp/B000Y4DWC0/ref=sr_1_7?crid=5XH94U6PMYA3&dchild=1&keywords=minwax+polycrylic+protective+finish&qid=1611348822&sprefix=minwa%2Caps%2C151&sr=8-7). Hope that helps!
@@RickTurnsWoodturning thank you so much for the wealth of information I have some gorgeous purple heart waste blocks to try it on. Whatever you do, keep up the humor.
Hi Rick , Lots of info here that I found very interesting , many thanks for sharing and I will keep an eye out for the next polishing video. All the best Bram.
+Brams shed Thanks, Bram.
Great video, very informative to a novice wood carver. I have a question about using tung oil as a finish and being food safe?
Yes, tung oil is food-safe. In my video "An Absolutely Positively Food-safe Friction Polish" (ruclips.net/video/CTXxcSP_Njo/видео.html), I do discuss that.
Awesome research! You answered my question.
Thank you, Brandon. Glad I could help.
Thanks Rick, lots of info there. 👍
Thanks for watching, Kevin.
i got the smaller can of that bullseye clear shellac and that same brand of boiled linseed oil, will it be a good shine 1:1 of shellac and boiled linseed, and not add the extra alcohol?
It will probably work without the denatured alcohol, but it will be thicker and you could have a problem with it leaving ridges on the surface.
Absolutely outstanding
Thank you, Michael!
About the shelf life I have had mine in a sauce squeeze bottle for about three years and it still works great. However I don't think I have any metho left in the mix.
+Allan Wright Thanks for the information, Allan! I'll use that in my next video.
There used to be a parks product But they may have went out of business they also made shellac all-time painters used it to cover water stains
That might be a product called Kilz. I’ve occasionally used it to seal end grain. Thanks for watching.
Hi. Can Methyl Hydrate be used in place of the denatured alcohol?
My understanding is that it can be used instead of denatured alcohol. I found references that indicated it is used commercially as a dilutant in shellac, which is what you would be using it for. The MSDS's that I looked at indicated it is pure methanol, which is used to "denature" ethanol to make denatured alcohol. So, sure, you should be okay using it (but don't drink it!).
thanks for the info,rick!
Thanks for watching, Ben.
2019...I live in Calif and just found out that denatured alcohol has been banned and is nowhere to be found. what else can I use?
You could start with Zinnsers Sanding Sealer, which is a diluted shellac - not quite as diluted as friction polish, but better than the standard four-pound cut. Then add your BLO. Or you could use rubbing alcohol - that won’t work as well as DNA, but it’s better than nothing. Or you could bite the bullet and pay a lot and get a commercial friction polish like Mylands (amzn.to/32oKsuK) or Shellawax (amzn.to/31pbRLC). Good luck!
I also live in California and I do not think your statement is true, I just bought some from Home Depot. However, I tried Lowes first and they had just removed all of their denatured alcohol from the shelf. I believe it was an issue with their brand and not all DA. Try some different stores and if that fails verify if it is a municipal ban or a state ban. If I am wrong, please let me/us know. Good Luck, Rick.
@@rickmunroe4159 I also had just bought some at HD and 2 weeks later it was gone (last week, Oct16, 2019). I talked to the sales guy and he said some store people came in and took it all off the shelf and didn't tell him why. I guess a lot of folks are going to Nevada to get it but that's too far for me. I don't know if anyone will ship it to Ca. Everything I could dig up on the internet says it's banned and not available anywhere, along with everclear which also is supposed to work.
Now I am trying to find 99% anhydrous isopropolyne (rubbing alcohol) which I guess works too. Rumor has it that it's also on the banned list. Best I can do so far is 91% which I have read has too much water in it to work. It may work with already mixed but won't dissolve flakes (all from my research, not tried).
I feel sorry for the people who have alcohol stoves. I read where one guy just installed one on his boat and now can't get the fuel.
shellac is cut with denatured alcohol, and boiled linseed oil is cut with mineral spirits. How can you mix min. spirits and denatured alcohol?
They don’t really mix - you have to shake it up time you use it. The shellac and oil will separate within a half hour or so.
Very interesting, thank you...
Cheers...
+Adam Quincey Thank you, Quincey.
can i use shellac for a good sanding seal overall especially for end grain tear out
Yes indeed. Zinnser sells a sanding sealer which is really just a 2lb cut of shellac. For tearout, though, I don't think it's thick enough to fill the voids, if that's what you had in mind.
they are small ,,,, i found it at menards im getting tired of the water based anyway
Thank you sir!
Thanks for watching, Davide
Very informative. Thanks
+Donna Byers Thanks for commenting, Donna.
If your a shellac purist (some might say snob...) try mixing the flakes with Everclear - 95% alcohol and available from your local liquor store. That's what period furniture restorers use when repairing shellac finishes on precious antiques. Myself, I'm with you. I use denatured alcohol. It's cheaper.
Yep, it's Everclear that I recommend in my video "An Absolutely Positively Food-safe Friction Polish" (ruclips.net/video/CTXxcSP_Njo/видео.html). I didn't realize that furniture restorers used it. Thanks for the information!
I learned about it from watching Don Williams videos. He retired to move on to other projects (donsbarn.com/the-barn/), but he was Senior Furniture Conservator at the Smithsonian Institution for 30 years. I see by the date I was only two years behind the curve on you. I just discovered your channel and am binging to catch up. Very good stuff!
I got this from Captain Eddy more then 3 yrs ago he called it oj shine !
Yes, I’ve seen Capt Eddy’s video and probably another half dozen as well. Thanks for watching, Dave.
what happened to the old individual application method?
I'm not sure what you mean by "individual application method", Gary.
Good info, thanks.
+ll4m4tr0n Thanks for commenting!
Awesome info...Thanks!!!
+Speedy's Woodshop Thanks for commenting, Speedy!
Good info.
+Thomas Kovalcik Thank you, Thomas.
great tutorial...thank you..!!
+SkunkTreeCarvings Thanks for commenting!
great info
+Daniel Shore Thank you, Daniel.
thank you
Thanks for watching, Nick.
Interesting facts regarding shellac. Tried the mixture on a mesquite bowl I just turned and it looks pretty nice. My zinzzer shellac was a couple years old and was sticky a bit. Will be picking up some new fresh ingredients. Thanks for the great video Rick.
Thanks for watching, NRA Gurl.
Thank you so much this is a great informational video!
+The Russian Woodworker Thanks for commenting!
Very informative and interesting, thank you
Thank you, Kent.
Denatured alcohol is not found in California, imagine that the dopes in the no fun zone (state gov.) don’t want a nice finish.
is it hard when come dry .did not mark your hand to any wood project.
Hi, Enrico. Friction polish is hard when dried, but it is not a very durable finish. It will be damaged by handling. I use mainly on small items which will not be picked or used for anything.
So once I mix this up, I can drink it, right? ;-)
Just remember, Jack...drink responsibly and don't drive if you have more than one shot glass of friction polish.
Just buy shellac flakes and make right cut to start with.
Too much trouble to mix shellac from flakes. Thanks for watching, Jack.
New sub good content!
Thank you, Tom
Sealcoat is the better choice. Many luthiers use Sealcoat on their instruments as french polish.
@@BobBlarneystone I’ll bet sealcoat is a lot more expensive than glue. I had no idea sealcoat could be used as French polish. That’s amazing.
Thank you for the detailed information, just what I was looking for! As for your jokes...well let’s just say keep your day job. Stand-up comedy isn’t your strong suit:)
Damn, I already quit my day job! Thanks for watching, Kyle.
Shellacfinishes.com have there own brand of shellac
Thanks for the tip, Tommy.
I’ll give you a nice chunk if you come. Lol. I’d be more than happy to see you turn it.
Thank you, Patrick.
Whew, between this video "what friction polish is and how to make it" and the next video "use and abuse of friction polish", it's over an hour! Even at double speed that's hard to take.
Lot of ground to cover. :-). Thanks for watching, Dave,
Not a secret, called OB shine juice brought to you by Capt Eddie. Now that recipe is not ideal as oil will float and the finish will dull over time. Try my recipe, FRENCHY'S shine juice: 10% BLO, 30% DA, and 60% shellac, will build a finish faster, more durable and will retain its shine over time.
Nope, not a secret at all - I’ve been using it for years. Cap’n Eddie named it OB shine juice. Thanks for your formula, I’ll try it out when I get my woodturning workshop going again.
It looks as though you could benefit from funnel technology, Rick.
You are correct, Gary! A few weeks after this video, I purchased a set of different size funnels.
Rick, a whole lot of information here. I always begin my finishes with 3 coats of shellac and spun dry, no matter what type of top coat I use.SAFE TURNING, John
Thanks for the tip, John. And thanks for watching.