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- Опубликовано: 28 авг 2024
- WW'nTip-of-Day #048: Shellac
A little basic knowledge on shellac and it'll soon become a favorite finish.
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Bonus: Bob Flexner
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I used Shellac for the first time, and I'm impressed with the ease of use, clean up, and dry times. I'm impressed with the finished look. I appreciate your video. Great info.
Sir, your wood shop, is STUNNING. Gosh all that wood against the nice wooden tools. So earthy and beautiful
Shellac has become my absolute favorite finish for exactly the reasons you mentioned.
-- For glass smooth finishes, A shellac finish takes 3 hours, where my old oil or poly finishes took between 4 days, and 2 weeks!
--I buy Zinsser and use the 3lb cut to build my finishes. For tabletops, I'll do a 320 grit scuff and cap it with 2 coats of oil poly so junk doesn't get stuck in the grain.
-- When my zinsser cans are down to about half, I top them off with alcohol for a near 1lb cut and use that as my early coats for a finish. It's just super convenient. It doesn't have to be perfect either.
-- I do have the "build can" where I mix my other partially empty cans into it, so the fluid never goes below 1/3.
-- For finishes that ABSOLUTELY must be perfect, like brand new floors, or very chatoyant tabletops, or historic restorations, I'll use flakes or button shellac.
-- Shellac has yielded some of the most beautiful finishes I've ever done. I installed a white oak floor, sanded to 220, 3 coats of 1lb garnet, 2 coats of 3lb amber, and 3 coats of water poly. The owner was okay with my $20/sq ft pricing too. "This is nicer than your demo pieces. I've never seen wood shine like cats eyes, much less the whole floor!"
I like how you just got straight to the point out the gate!
ZINZER DECODED: The first letter “S” identifies the plant that packaged the product.
The first number is the last digit in the year the shellac was packaged.
The second number is the month.
For October, November & December the first letter is used instead of a number: “O,” “N,” “D.” The third and forth numbers provide the date within that month.
Thanks for the valuable tip!
Good afternoon Sean: Thank you for what you do! One additional bit about shellac,,,,shellac is the dissolved shell of the lac beetle,,,,,the wax is the naturally occurring wax cuticle which protects the beetles' shell from environmental exposure and from actually freezing to death even in a warm climate also from fungi, molds and bacteria intrusions. Thank you again for what you bring to the trade. David Murray.
Best video I've seen on shellac so far. Thank you, helped a lot!
One of my favorite finishes. Still mix my own from flakes. And I LOVE those little bottles you are using. I use them for everything from Shellac to Glue, to Alcohol. very convenient and cheap as heck. One of the best things HF sells.
The great part of making your own shellac at home, is that whether you use denatured alcohol, or moonshine, or Everclear, after the shellac dries and cures, it's food safe, unlike the stuff found on the shelf at your favorite store.
I have used shellac almost exclusively for the past 20 years. While not 'perfect' for EVERY application, it's a great finish.
very forgiving stuff.
Frickin sweet video! Awesome info! Thanks!
Sam Kinison Lives!!!!!! Great video, BTW.
Excellent. I learned a lot. Thank you.
Great information I've been producing poor finishes just because I didn't have anyone to explain its qualities to me, so thanks for the help Keith from Tasmania
When I first started learning wood repair the "old timers" would say "shellac will stick to anything, and anything will stick to shellac" :) What I do for a good finish is make a wash coat I'll mix 50% shellac 50% alcohol, and then (after sanding) spray 3-4 coats of pre-cat laquear
Hey Shawn, they just filter shellac to remove the wax. You can dewax your own by allowing the wax to settle to the bottom of the container and decanting off the clear wax-free portion. I think the solids that had settled in your bottle of 3 lb cut were wax that you re-suspended when you shook it.
Ugh... you forget, I'm lazy. From the can it is!
I've been using the Zinnser bullseye seal coat for years as a sanding sealer under water based clears and two part poly (auto finish) for drum sets, and some art/ turned pieces!
Sprays well also, just like to brush or wipe on the first coat to work it into the pores real well.
Once it's on, dont go back and mess with it till its dry, you can end up with a bit of "dragging" effect.
Thanks for the info neighbor!
Good points
Wow the world of Shellac all makes sense now! I see my mistakes in using Shellac. Thank You so much 😊
Thanks
For my purposes, I prefer multiple coats of 1 pound. I mix flakes (amber or blonde or platina), finely ground with a cheap spice grinder with Everclear in pint jars. I store the pints in my pantry with appropriate labels. Thanks for the video!
From now on I’m going to hit the thumbs up and then watch your videos. Always great work!
That's an excellent idea.
Someone else has probably commented but what you are making as your applicator is an old style "rubber" which French polishers used to polish furniture.
Shellac also lasts well. We have some 18th century pieces that some time got shellac & what hasn't seen water or alcohol is still pristine, mirror like finish & quite beautiful. I once heard a talk by a coffin maker who said his job had been to French polish the coffin so smooth that if a fly landed on it, it would slip & break its neck. By contrast more modern pieces we have with a spray lacquer finish, show many places where the lacquer has failed & needs replacing & often the surface isn't as smooth as shellac. Personally I like to buy the grains & mix with meths (in uk dyed purple, but this doesn't show in end product) making only small amounts as needed. Sometimes adding a tiny bit of linseed oil to improve the motion across wood if it becomes a little frictional. Normally I never tie off the cloth, just wrapping it around cotton waste or cotton wool & recharging the centre. The outside cloth eventually wears but the centre cotton goes on indefinitely, going hard, but quickly re-softening with new shellac or just alcohol. I keep this rubber as usually called in the uk, (could be problem name in US!) in a tight lidded jar that often stops alcohol evaporation. For longer term protection where water or alcohol might be encountered I put food/toy safe acrylic on top, otherwise just beeswax. My favourite finish as I like the colour is natural shellac & also because it dries so fast. Following Paul Sellers I sometimes apply with an hake brush, but I like the rubber best. Thanks for sharing!
Good points.
Shellac doesn’t actually ‘layer’, that’s one of its cool qualities. As you add shellac, it liquefies the previously added shellac - so no matter how much you add, it becomes part of the SINGLE layer of shellac. This is why French polishing gives you a deep, flawless result, because you have one perfect layer of finish. (Wellermart has a great selection of quality flakes to mix your own FRESH batch in whatever color or consistency you like)
I don’t think M&M uses shellac anymore, but many candies still do. I’ve been inside a plant where they spray the shellac on the candies and I can tell you it ain’t pretty. It’d make you think twice about that handful of Reese’s Pieces, for certain. Thank you for your excretion, Lac beetle🪲 !
So, if I want to use it for a guitar finish, without going the French polish route, is it possible to get a mirror finish if I keep adding to it?
I’ve read that a water-based varnish can be used with shellac as well. What would you recommend were I to do that?
Thanks. Shellac is prety much all I use.
I don't use nothing but automotive 2k clear coat I've used a lot of finishes but once I started using the catalyzed clear I can't go back to wood clears and my wood projects come out as smooth and has the look of glass with class.
This is incredible. Much appreciated
Great video. Thanks for demystifying shellac.
many years ago when I was in hardware, the sales reps really pushed for filling the shelves with poly. Shellac was so "old timey". I wish I had spent more time learning how to use it and incorporate shellac with other finishes years ago. Thanks for the vid.
Ya, they get to sell more when you have to repair it too.
Essential to have on hand. For wood turners, it’s great to stiffen up the fibers of wood that is prone to tear out.
I would like to experiment using it as a grain filler. I’d also like to try using it as a toner with alcohol soluble aniline dyes.
Good video.
Really great explanation of what shellac is and how it works. Learned alot. Thanks!
Thanks
My biggest issue of woodworking has been understanding which finishes work with which stains and where do the polys fit into all this. Thanx "teach"!!!!!! I look forward to your vids.
Thanks
Great info. Thanks for sharing all your woodworking wisdom with us..
Thanks
I love this presentation about shellac especially that you've identified that there is indeed a monopoly as zinsser is owned by rustoleum. I think it's ridiculous that there is one company selling a product with so much usage both historical and current in this country. I would even say it's downright un-American. As usual this is the kind of information that is useful to the majority of us, straight talk no BS.
Really appreciate the thorough explanation. Cheers
Great information to know. When I was a kid my dad used shellac on some doors and they stayed finished for a very long time, no touching up needed. I always wanted to use it but didn't know much about it. Now I do.
Try it.
Really good presentation…. Thanks
Thank you for your explanatory video. I've helped me a lot.
Zinsser de-coding:
The first letter identifies the plant that packaged the product.
The first number is the last digit in the year the shellac was packaged.
The second number is the month. For October, November and December the first letter is used instead of a number: “O,” “N,” or “D.”
The third and forth numbers provide the date within that month.
The fifth number or letter indicates the “run” on that date.
Shellac is actually the cocoon material excreted by the lac bug, very much like the silk cocoon of the silkworm.
Great vids your the real deal been doing this for years love your honest energy n confidence
Bug poo, my favorite candy. Yummy!!
Great video. Lots of useful information.
Thanks
About the manufacture date lot code on the lid, here's how to decipher it:
For example: S39225
S: The letter is the plant where it was made, which is irrelevant here.
3: The first number represent the year. In our example, it would have been made in 2023 (or 2013, 2003...)
9: The second number is the month, here September (9th month)
22: 3rd and 4th number is date, 22nd here.
5: The last number is daily batch #.
You might catch a lot code with 3rd digit (month) being one of those 3 letters, O, N, D.
Those are October, November and December, otherwise the code would need an extra digit for 10, 11 or 12th month.
Will watch this with great attention tomorrow(it's late here in France,) because you're still mind reading. Like Mr. Davis, below, I am just trying to find a simple finish to stick with and here in France I having the darnest time translating shellac and then finding the product. It's got to exist here somewhere...More tomorrow...Spot on AGAIN Shawn...cheers...rr
I mail order mine when I did flakes.
Thanks for sharing your wisdom
Again a most help full video. Keep it up
Thanks
Great video, Thanks for the tips :-)
I use Shellac for all my finishing projects it has a nice mellow finish and is durable and dries fast now i'm going to purchase a can of sealer after watching your video. Most of my projects I use Cypress wood siding then cut off the tongue and grove then stain the average cost for a Cypress board at the home centers is about $ 9 and it comes 97 inches long the after staining or clear coat the wide grain looks wonderful and is so much cheaper that Popular etc.
Thanks for sharing
I find shellac to be a superior finish because of speed. I can do 5 coats in an afternoon, yielding an excellent film finish that looks beautiful, I would need to do 3 coats of poly to yield the same protection and that takes 3 days.
Thank you. I will use for my workbench. Great video. I want the amber finish
Don't use on top of workbench. You want that somewhat rough. ruclips.net/video/4aYZFyFc6RE/видео.html
Thanks, Shawn. I like using shellac, even as a food safe finish.
we eat the stuff all the time. it's a common additive.
I fully concur with your concept of picking two finishes and sticking with them. I disagree with using anything shellac as one of them. I used to, but I've changed my mind. Most of the things that I make are small and are usually handled. Shellac doesn't like the moisture from my skin, even if I let it cure for weeks. IMHO.
Shellac has a shelf life once mixed with alcohol. If it isn’t rock hard after an hour it’s prolly turnt. Even stuff from cans. They used to put a date on em so we’d know if expired before bought but nowadays.... crap shoot. Best to mix your own as flakes are good for long time.
I French polished my son's guitar neck
He built his guitar from a kit, and didn't want a heavy finish on the neck
Stretching the finish on the headstock had a bit of a learning curve, but the shellack is very forgiving
Wait, what?? I thought Understanding Wood Finishing by Bob Flexner was the finishing bible. What I like about him is that he digs into what is really in the finishes available, he does his own chemical analyses since so many finishes are deceptively named (tung oil for example) and none list ingredients. He was the one who revealed that wiping varnish is simply regular varnish thinned 50%, and Danish oil is simply an oil-varnish blend, along with lots of other info. I learned finishing from a professional finisher here in southern California, Brian Miller. He has finally written down his techniques, and I highly recommend his book The Art of Coloring Wood.
Ya, he's good at cutting through the BS.
Great demo Shawn, thanks.
Thanks
Great stuff. Thanks for the info!
Thanks
you are professional
Basic mixes, Shellac + Methyl Hydra and just about any dye will work great if mixed well. Slow brush on sponge 5 to 30 thin coats. Let cure 30-45 days, 400 wet, 600 wet, 800 wet, 1000 wet, 1500 wet, 2000 wet, 3000 wet, then steal one of the wife's fingernail use the buff side lightly wet then polishing compound and Buff wheel. fair amount of work but i have guitars that make me drool vs using nitro cell. Thank you Buggs
I will only mix up my own shellac from dewaxed flakes and everclear or vodka after learning this because I don't want poison or toxins in it. Flakes last many years stored in airtight containers in a cool dry dark place. Using mechanical mixing is recommended if mixing old flakes.
Let the flakes sit overnight too.
I appreciate you taking the time to show us newbies how to thin shellac and apply thin coats! You're a big help to people like me who've never used shellac or never had any success with it. Since I have some vodka on hand for making natural herbal tinctures I'll use the vodka instead of using Denatured alcohol ( poisonous) I'll dissolve the flakes soon as they arrive in a quart jar and hopefully after giving it plenty of time to dissolve they'll be fine! Thanks a million! Love your channel!
This is a great video. Thanks man!
Thanks
I really love working with shellac. As you said its easy to use, great sealer & it makes my whole shop smell like a distillery. (I said that, not you). A friend made a turned bowl/art work & coated it with about 30 coats of de-waxed shellac. It buffed out beautifully.
By the way, I miss your longer videos with your Dad. Cheers, Jim
30 coats! That's patience.
Great explanation!!! Ehat the difference between shellac and wood hardener??? Do you have any video about wood hardener?
Shellac without the precipitation, it was de waxed.
From sellers available both types of shellac: with wax and de waxed.
Thank you.
Very informative thank you!
Very helpful. Glad I subscribed!
Thanks
WE NEED A FAST WAY TO BRING BACK OUR OLD 1959 RANCH HOME WOOD FLOORS, GRAND KIDS COMING , WE WERE IN THE MIDDLE OF CONSTRUCTION A CLOSET,
When you want a mirror smooth finish on your project, you just can't go wrong with a 1# "spit coat" to start your finish regime. I don't think you emphasized the role of the spit coat quite right. The alcohol causes the grain to raise up and then the shellac dries to lock the grain in an upright position. Then you go in there with 240/320 grit or a cabinet scraper and knock off all those fibers. Afterwards, whatever you put on top of it has a much smoother surface to cover. The result is a thinner, stronger, more lustrous surface. When using older shellac, you need to extend the drying time before sanding to prevent gumming up the sanding pad. That's also why I prefer a cabinet scraper. Also, because the fine dust caused by sanding can get caught in the pores dulling the overall figure in the wood.
Thanx for putting this much maligned finish in a more positive light.
grain will rise only if it was abraded. Use a plane and it shouldn't. Sometimes it will if it was scraped as it's not as clean a cut. I go straight to finishing after planing and use a 0000 plastic 3m pad to apply a wax topcoat to take care of any dust nibs. But in the end the customer won't know the difference as long as it feels good.
@@wortheffortgrain will rise only if its been abraided? That makes total sense and is great info. Thank you!
Anyway of tinting it, so I can try matching on a repair?
Refinishing a hope chest top and wanting to match the sides.
Its Eastern Red Cedar!
Loved the video, I am now a new subscriber.
Thanks
Very useful information, thanks
Thanks
Just now watched a video by 'SHELLAC FINISHES' it seems as though my knowledge was not as complete as I thought it to be! Would recommend that others do so as well.
Very thorough except for a a very important main subject, I heard that shellac is safe for finishing little kids toys, Non toxic, I was looking for that answer and it was not mentioned, I am going to start making kids toys,
Johnny sea I did say you eat it, put it on food like candy.
Really enjoyed that Man U jamming some info into that one!
Thanks
Thanks I'm just getting into wood working and looking for a good finish for a guitar speaker cabinet. Been thinking about tru oil then wax
Just an FYI about Date on can. Stumpy Nubs has the decoder 4 that.
It’s changed.
Thanks for the info. I have never used Shellac, but I;m interested.
Does the shellac penetrate below the surface or does the alcohol go into the wood leaving the shellac on the surface?
How water or humidity resistant is shellac?
New fan learned a lot thanks
Thanks
What oil and wax to you use?
Discovered in junior high wood shop that I preferred just simple oil finish. Olive oil I think it was. Let the wood be the wood.
thank you, you made that look fun
Thanks
cotton fabric will still shed lint, the only lint free fabric you can trust is well washed linen. old linen sheets or tea towels even irish linen handkerchiefs.
good points
Wipe on poly water-based works pretty well also low maintenance
I'm not a fan of film for utilitarian stuff for the repair difficulty.
Parabéns por essa explicação.
When I was a kid old guys would put glass marbles in the can to displace the air so it would last longer. Any thoughts ?
Hi there, many thanks for all of your good advise, during this video you used a 4 disc sanding disc holder, what a great product. Can you tell me who makes that product please, I’m in uk and would love to purchase one, thanks again, Yours Ricky
thank you
Thanks for sharing so much information with us. I ordered the book from amazon, although the link you provided didn't work -- check on that, so you can get a little bonus for your recommendation!
Well I have to say I've been looking all over the Internet for a question that you answered and nowhere else I can find till I found this video (Is the clear zinsser shellac waxed or dewaxed ?)I could not find that information anywhere(on line nor calling hardware stores) nobody locally knew enough or anyting about shellac and the zinsser brands two explaine my question and I bought the regular shellac not the sealer nor could I get an answer at the hardware store when I was buying it because my friend that works in the paint Department who's about the only actual experienced and well knowledgeable paint dep. He admitted he knew nothing about shellac nor did anywhere else I went, so thank you.. . . perhaps I should have just ordered the flakes but I needed it right then or so I thought until I found out this antique sewing machine I'm working on also needs some veneer work so I have not applied the waxed shellac to the bare wood thank goodness I will go and buy the bullseye Sealcoat and then layer it like unwaxed and use the natural (beeswax caribana wax) finishing wax compound with it at the end.. I'm bringing an antique early treadle singer sewing machine restore back to original factory condition. (On a budget) .. new to shellac & loving this lost art..
See minute 5:10 and forward... He 'clearly' explains that SealCoat is 100% dewaxed, the other contains wax.
I'm refinishing mid-century modern walnut veneer furniture. I want a natural, clear, matte finish that you mention. Would this shellac finish protect the wood for a durable finish for dressers? You mention applying oil or wax as a final step. Is that necessary? Does that then need to be repeated for maintenance?
The price has more than doubled since this video was made.
If you want to make cheap quality furniture a single coat of Shellac can do the job.
Do a Google search for "Zinser date codes" and you will find an explanation of the codes and how to read them.
good pull
Hey, what’s the medal on the wall about? Thanks for your videos
You mentioned using wax instead of layering shellac to avoid the plastic look... Paste wax on top of a seal coat of shellac?
Awesome information and video. Yeah say that three times fast once is hard enough. I always like referring to Bob I know he’ll have the answer.
When in doubt, reference Bob.
I have lots to learn about finishes. As new to turning I would like to find out what is a good "food safe" finish? I will be trying to find Flexner on finishing and see what he has to say as well. Thank for the great videos.
Mineral oil has been the historic food safe finish. Also many companies make Salad Bowl finishes. Lastly, many authorities say that ANY finish is food safe if fully cured.
Thank you. That information is a big help.
Any product will be food safe if it cures. Even poly. I prefer one of three natural oils that fully cure (Walnut, flaxseed, and ....). I personally would not use mineral oil even though it is safe (you can drink it). Mineral oil is designed as a lubricant and not to cure. So all the oil you put on stays in the wood as a liquid (which is why it looks good for so long). The issue is since it stays a liquid it will suspend other particles such as oils from meat. Now if you let it sit long enough the natural antibacterial agents in wood will eventually kill any bad stuff but that takes weeks. So if you cut up a chicken one day, wash it, then cut up tomatoes the next, your tomatoe could have a little salmonela(sp) because water does not remove the mineral oil that is suspending the chicken juice.
So stick to one of the natural oils that cure or go raw. Nothing wrong with a splotchy cutting board or bowl. Just call it rustic.
Great info bro
Thanks
First off I would like to say that it wasn't long ago that I found your channel and I have enjoyed and found use full or interesting information in every video I've watched. I even watch your videos on topics that I'm really not interested in just to see what I can learn, so I want to thank you for that.
The question I have is that you said that you can put a coat of shellac on as a sealer coat before an oil finish to save on oil. I have heard arguments that this process doesn't allow the oil to soak in deep enough to get the "depth" or the "pop" of the grain as opposed to using straight oil.Evidently you don't believe this or this is not look you want but I was just wondering if you would share your thoughts on this controversy?
That first shellac wash coat fills pores. This accomplishes two things: reducing splotch and oil consuption. Grain, figure, pop are all just nice looking "splotch". So there's no reason you couldn't put on a light coat of oil to get the look. After it cures then applying a wash coat of shellac so that as you continue to oil it doesn't soak up too much. Punky woods and some open grain woods can soak up a huge amount of oil. The more it does the longer it takes to cure and the more you pay for the oil. So that inbetween coat of shellac will save curing time in the long run and... money on oil.
Thank you for that information because I use a lot open pore wood (white and red oak) and I also use spalted wood when I find it. I will try this technique as I've never used shellac straight on wood, just in a mixture for a turning polish
I would love to see your favorite turning finishes and techniques. Also where do you buy your shellac flakes.
I don't do flakes anymore. One of main reasons is convenience as I mail ordered em. Lee Valley sells em. It's an easy tack on when you need to bump an order up to get free shipping.
oh ok I was just thinking I could make smaller batches and not loose so much in waste. Iv been testing new finishes as my turning projects have increased. I hate the plastic feel of films. What finish would you prefer to use on say lamps or candle holders? Furniture pieces?
oil and wax is always my go to.
You know your shellac.
Flexners book is like $141.00 on Amazon right now... that is way too much money for me to spend, thanks for the recommendation though.
Individuals gouging unknowing public via Amazon. Common in books. It’s available normal prices elsewhere.