I just bought a 36v for my trolling motor. Can’t wait to get rid of all 3 of my heavy trolling batteries and just have one for the trolling motor. I wish I knew about this brand before. I bought a different brand for all my marine electronics and it’s fine. But would have loved to support this American company with that battery as well and have both of mine run off the same app. I’m still using a group 31 AGM battery for starting my OptiMaxx, because it’s still not approved by mercury to use lithium starting batteries, even though some people do it with that motor. My boat is still under warranty and I don’t want to chance anything.
Thanks for the great review. Based on yours and other reviews I ordered two of the 460 AH batteries for my motorhome to replace 3 shot Lifeline 8D AGM batteries. I was never really happy with the Lifeline batteries and they are years past their life. Being able to see battery performance on the app will be really nice!
Thank you for the great review. I pulled the trigger finally, after days of research and comparisons, this one was a solid choice and a great price right now. Impatiently awaiting my Epoch 36V to arrive!
Great video! I'm upgrading from acid/lead batteries and just bought 36v Dakota (3x12) today and waiting for them to ship. I'd like to have that bluetooth setup and the capacity meter with the Epoch but you've convinced me the Dakotas are a quality product. Dakota is going to be easier for me to make payments too. Plus, the rest of the technical stuff is lost on me. I've got a golf buddy here in the park here who's going to help me get my cart set-up. Thanks again for the review
Great video! I have already purchased the same battery but have not installed it yet. After watching the video, I am even more confident that I made the right choice. 👍
Outstanding review. I had pretty much decided to buy two Dakota lithiums for my boats 24v trolling motor. I watched the videos on the Dakotas and read all of the reviews. Most positive and of course there were negative reviews as well. So here I am deciding to buy the Dakotas and I saw an ad for the Epoch batteries. I started watching the RUclips videos and was intrigued with Epochs construction and the reviews. Tonight watching this video your insightful review sealed the deal for me. Instead of buying two 12v 100ah Dakotas I’ll buy the single 24v 100 Epoch battery and charger. Thanks for a great comparison review!
So glad it helped. Dakotas are not bad but you get so much more from the Epoch for the price. And if you were going to wire two 12 volts in series to make 24 a single battery is the way to go. But if you really want Dakotas i have 3 for sale...lol
Btw..if you look up Rod Collins on facebook he has several groups such as "lithium batteries on boats" and Marine How To. Contact him for a 10% off code
@@mvintrigue-trawlerdiy1101 on the digital monitor that comes with the battery can you tell me the approximate length of the cable that connects to the battery? I’ll check his videos out.
If you could do a video on the wiring up and routing of the wires and if there are any special considerations regarding the golf cart forward/reverse controller cables etc that need to go to the shunt before the motor or controller that would be awesome. I just by accident ran across a RUclips video entitled: "Electric Farm Cart - Part Two - Lithium Battery Installation" where the fella states something about a motor cable having to go to the shunt before being connected to the motor. It was a bit fast and hard for me to understand. Thank you Sir, - M
Says 200A max discharge for 60 seconds. Does it have a higher spike allowance over that for short duration? Just wondering for acceleration on a hill, or under heavy load. Don’t need the sustained power, but don’t want to overload and error out.
Yes it does. I have hit 200 before and never had a trip. However if you are going to mod your cart with big motors and big controllers there may be better options. Really ath that point youd want to upgrade to 48v or 72 volt.
I searched through all of your videos but I could not find one where you install your Renogy battery monitor and shunt to watch. Unless I didn't locale the video......thanks.
I have been meaning to do that test. And I will at some point. The problem is that to run a physical distance test takes HOURS..lol. Its like going on a road trip. Bring some drinks and some snacks, the Garmin GPS to track actual distance and set out for half a day. When I have the time I will try to get that done. But the battery is still performing beautifully and I would expect about 45 miles out of it. Give or take.
So, I have my Epoch 36 volt orders and should be here on Wednesday. Coming from Georgia and I'm only in Delaware. Your video's convinced me. Thank you for taking the time to do them and all of your testing and knowledge. Just a question: is there correct warranty info on this battery somewhere ? Kevin advised me it is three year full replacement then after that pro rated and or tech suppot. Can you clarify that or elaborate on it a bit ? Thank you, Mike
Kevin is the main main there so what he said should be correct. I think I have had mine for at least 2 years now and have not had a single issue. You wont be disappointed.
Hello again. I'm having a issue getting my Renogy Model RBM500 battery monitor to work on the Epoch 36 Volt 100 AH battery. I have hooked it up according the instructions. When I press the power button on the battery to power it on, it beeps and shuts down. I have the shunt wired into the system as described in the instructions that came in the box and have watched other videos of folks hooking them up in trailers, mobile homes etc etc. I was hoping you might be able to shed some light on the issue as I have the same battery that you have from Epoch, 36 Volt 100 AH. Thank you for any assistance sir. Mike........
You need a lithium capable charger. The one Epoch offers is well matched and charges at 20 amps. So worst case scenario is it takes 5 hours to charge from completely dead. Or say 2 hours to charge when the battery is 40% used (60% remains).
Just watched this again. Very good video. Keep us updated. Can you give a price with the charger and, it that the charger you recommend for this battery ? Thanks again !
I am not a dealer or have any special relationship to sell from Epoch. If you call them they may have a 10% off deal. Also, just use the Epoch charger. I have tried 3 brands of chargers and the Epoch is very good for the price.
I'm looking at adding the 12.8v 460 Ah version to my yamaha jet boat where I have a lot of aftermarket speakers and subwoofers. Specs state continous 300 amp discharge and 500 amp 30 second discharge. Should this not be enough for cranking or is there other requirements for that? I'm hoping to use it as a single solution dual purpose battery, what do you think?
I have just tested the 300AH Essential battery in another vide and I have 2 of the 460AH batteries testing on the bench. A video will be out soon for that one. On your application I would need some details. What Yamaha Jet boat do you have? I had the SX 192 for a little while. I believe they use a stator type system to charge the batteries and output voltage. I dont think the amp rating is very high. In addition if you hook up a Lifepo4 battery in the system it will likely max out the charging system that could result in failure. On the starting side...the 460ah battery could probably start those engine easy. But i still wouldn't recommend it. IMO the best way for you to go is to simply add the 460 AH battery (or other battery you decide to get) and to move over all the "accessories" from the existing battery to the 460AH. I did this on my old Yamaha and that change was done right at the battery since there were two harnesses hooked up to the battery. One for engine systems and starting and the other was for all accessories. I literally just had to disconnect one of the two ring terminals and see which was which by turning on the radio or trying to start the boat to figure out which was which. Once you have the accessories on the big 460 AH battery you are all set. Just charge the battery with an Epoch or other lithium charger prior to going out. There is so much capacity in that 460 ah battery that I dont think you will use half of it. Then return home and plug in the charger again. One other thing you can add is something like the Victron DC to DC charger. Like the 30 amp model. You can then hook that up between your existing lead acid start battery and the lifepo4 battery. That will safely charge the 460AH lifepo4 battery up to 30amp if the Yamaha start can put out that much. I believe you can derate it if needed too to something lower like 20 amps if needed. But consider this. If your 460AH battery is at half capacity of 215 ah and you want to fully charge it using the Yamaha charging system safely at say 20 amps it will take you around 12 hours of engine running. Thats another was to show how much capacity something like the 460ah battery has in comparison. You arent likely to use all that power in a day. Heck you could add an inverter to get 120 volts on the boat and probably run a microwave and cook some meals and never come close to using all that capacity. If anything is not clear just ask some more questions ill be happy to answer when I get a chance.
@@mvintrigue-trawlerdiy1101 amazing looking forward to the video! It's really nice to see the details and someone mess with something you are wanting to buy. My boat is a 05 AR 230HO twin engine. You are correct they have magneto stators and yes they are very low output I believe 14 amp. But... When I bought the boat it was heavily upgraded by the previous owner including upgrading the system to NMEA 2000 with a Axiom MFD (normally all the gauges are mechanical on the older models) and adding an alternator to the port engine (this engine has a quick disconnnect/connect on the back of the boat which hooks up to a zapata racing flyboard) so the starboard engine is off and only the port engine is running it can charge batteries while Flyboarding and playing music (the high power stereo includes 3 amps running 12 total speakers and 6 subwoofers) As far as causing failure on the original charging system I honestly have no clue what's happening here to the stators when mixed with the alternator and high watt draw from the amps but I haven't noticed any warnings or codes when I have hooked up my laptop to the engine ECU with a YDS cable so it must be okay. But now that you mention that concern maybe I will play it safe moving forward and get a cheaper AGM/GEL dual purpose battery (although I have been eying the new Epoch dual purpose 120 Ah battery coming in December) for cranking the motors and isolate all the accessories to the Epoch 460 Ah and hook up the alternator charging to only the 460 Ah battery just like you are suggesting. I would even consider skipping out on the alternator (because it seems so complicated and expensive) but I'm not sure it will actually last without charging it out on the water for my case. I'm guessing my 3 amps alone are 5000 Watts RMS output but I don't really know if that's reliable math to assume that is actually what is also being drawn from the battery. (Though I read the output is 20% less than what the input/draw is, suggesting it is actually drawing even more than 5,000 watts) So if it is safe to assume that is the case and if I used the stereo on high and it really did draw 5,000 watts and I added 1000 more watts to that number for other electronics so 6,000 watts divided by the voltage rating of 12.8v = roughly about 470 amps draw and if I can only use 90%-95% of the battery this means this battery would barely last me not even an hour. (I think I'm over estimating but I would rather be safe than sorry here and I suppose I should have tried measuring the actual amp draw from the cable when in use but the boat is in storage currently and I'm out of the country until way after Black Friday which I'm hoping to buy everything I need with deals hopefully all in these next two weeks) Since I already have an alternator pulley on the port side installed by the previous owner and a rack for the alternator, I have been planning to upgrade the alternator (current one is a 130 amp off an old Ford Truck and no ignition protection - I don't want to blow up by being cheap) and get a Marine grade one... Balmar XT 170 or Balmar XT 250 is on my list, and I do indeed need your help as you have real life experience using the Epoch battery and Victron system and probably marine Alternators I would bet. So since the Epoch battery is internal BMS when it gets fully charged it essentially shuts down/stops accepting charge correct? And if the alternator keeps trying to charge it that sounds like it will damage the battery. So can you confirm my plan or tell me what I need to do to have the Epoch battery communicate with Victron system which in turn ultimately will signal the alternator to turn off when the Epoch battery is full or near full. The biggest thing is if you can confirm if the Epoch battery has a robust/intuitive enough BMS capability via canbus to actually enable functions on the victron OS or is it just data to view? I was unable to get a response via email from them but someone did reply to me from their IG page with the following response: "The Victron communication enables all battery data to be communicated to the Victron operating system ..has direct access and communication to the BMS" Basically on paper my plan I came up with after getting help and researching is the following if you can confirm or fix any parts that won't work: 1. Epoch 460 connected to a Victron Cerbo GX on it's "BMS-Can" port in order for the Epoch BMS to tell it when the battery is full 2. Cerbo then will trigger the Wakespeed WS500 (An external regulator for Alternators - this one is canbus enabled) though does the Cerbo also have a output canbus for me to run to the WS500? 3. WS500 regulator will shut off the Balmar XT 170 or XT 250 Alternator Option 2 - more mechanical approach: 1. Epoch 460 is connected to Victron Cerbo GX 2. Cerbo GX is connected to the victron BP220 BatteryProtect Relay (Mode C on the app utilized for "Lithium" where it acts as an external control and turns off when it's told to by the Epoch internal BMS) 3. BP 220 will be hooked up the the ignition wire on an external regulator (In this scenario I would go with the cheaper non-canbus regulator from Balmar the MC-618) 5. The MC-618 regulator will shut the Balmar alternator off
@@jemdost6724 IMO option 1 is the best approach and should work. I would divide the systems by keeping the normal stator charging coupled to the normal batteries and then use your alternator with the Wakespeed 500. One thing about the Epoch with "victron Comms" that is not well explained is that this implies that the battery with victron comms uses the newer Victron V2 protocol. When you have the Cerbo GX you go to settings and set it to lithium and enable the DVSS and select the Epoch BMS CAN as the controlling agent in various settings. At that point its actually the Epoch BMS that controls the charging. The other dozen settings in the Cerbo are irrelevant. There is also a new external regulator called the ARCO Zues that is supposed to be even better. You might look into that. The Balmar MC-618 will not do this in the same way. Thats what I have on my Trawler and I should have gotten the Wakespeed or may change to the Arco Zues. The watt rating for the stereo is not quite rated in that way since its not a continuous peak. No doubt it will be pulling some power but its probably half the values you state averaged over time at max output. Your set up sounds interesting. Keep researching. Once you have a normal alternator and external requlator...the sky is the limit for you.
@@mvintrigue-trawlerdiy1101 Awesome feels great to get some confirmation as the price tag for all this was making it hard without having enough confidence it would all work together so thanks a ton! Arco Zues looks really sweet indeed, sounds like an exciting future upgrade for you. I might go with it too, thanks for the share! Could you share with me everything I will need to order to make all of this work such as cables fuses or will I benefit from getting a GX Touch 50 screen or any other victron products? I saw one of you other video you had a lot more going on and a bluetooth USB dongle I believe. You are probably right with the stereo but either way I think I will need to opt in for installing the alternator still so looks like I'll be moving forward with this project.
@@jemdost6724 All of this is predicated on if you were to install the alternator. But IMO you probably want the cerbo GX, touch 50 (because you will need to set certain parameters), either wakesepeed or Arco Zues regulator, and that might be it. I would probably opt to get a good regular 12 volt charger to charge the batteries from a wall outlet when you are at home. As for cables thats hard to say because youll need to see what each item comes with. I bought all my Victron stuff used so I dont know what comes with what. I have since had to buy a few extra cables here and there as I figured out I needed them but thats not a big deal and they are cheap. Now please understand you have to continue your own research. All iof this is relatively new to me as well and in reality its relatively new to the entire industry. As you do your research you will see the information is actually not readily forthcoming because the vast number of ways things can be hooked up, systems are all different and information is disorganized. It took me 4 weeks of reading to get to where I am now and I am not 100% of the way there. Maybe 80%. You could probably even skip the Cerbo GX. But for everything it does and its relatively low cost, and ability to expand various capabilities in the future I would probably opt for it. Everything we have discussed is about everything I know. And if you ask others you will get different answers..lol. So please ensure you make this project your own and make all your purchases based on your own knowledge and research. Make sure you take some videos of your project when its done. That will be one hell of a set up. Actually...do you have a link to the alternator conversion for the yamaha 1.8? I would be interested to see that.
UPDATE:....I got it working....I think there was some type of coating on the small red shunt wire end and I sanded it off and it made contact better with the positive terminal .
Thanks so much. There is a learning curve here for sure. Love your videos, ordered a second 36 Volt battery because of your great information ! Thanks again, Mike C.@@mvintrigue-trawlerdiy1101
Today I installed my 36 volt battery like the one you have there. I plugged the battery meter in but it won't work. I tried both ports, black one and blue one. Any suggestions ? Thank you, Mike......
Not really. Take a very close look at the port and plug for any bent pins. If none just go to the Epoch website and click " support" and schedule a call back. Have them send a new meter to try.
Thank you. I contacted the office in Georgia and they sent me out a new meter in two days. It cured the issue, thank you again for all of your help and answering all of my questions. I ordered another 36 volt battery for another cart.
I have this exact battery that I just installed in ez go 2005. Today was the first day we drove it, works awesome! I have a question about charging. I am new to lithium and wanted to know once plugged in do you have to leave to 100% or can you unplug if needed at a lesser than 100% capacity ?
Thanks a bunch. Much appreciated. I mainly posted this because my opinion is that many of the original "gold standard" lifepo4 batteries such as Battle Born and Dakota have not kept pace with both innovation and price competition. I dont want to see someone over pay for "blind" battery.
No mods. The cart is a 36 volt PDS cart. Only carts that have a rev/fwd switch on the dash are PDS carts. If it is a PDS cart you can change the speed setting by using a jumper plug that gets hooked into the harness. The red freedom plug sets the controller to max speed of 19 mph. I get 20 because i have slightly larger diameter tires. When I air them up to max I get 21 occasionally due to a slightly larger diameter.
Great video but I’m baffled as to why you would just get rid of a perfectly fine set of batteries. Why not ride it until you have a sign of a problem and then pull the trigger?
Because three batteries wired in series, one will always eventually get out of sync with the others. You could use an external balancer but that's just more cost and maintenance. Once the batteries are out of sync, steps will be required to bring them back in sync. None of that is too big a deal, but I dont want to tinker with my golf cart....at all. I have enough projects to deal with..lol. When you go to a single battery, whether 36 volt of 48 volt, all the balancing will be done internally by the BMS. With the Dakotas I got stranded before I figured out the series imbalance issues. Then after that I was always checking each battery individually with a meter to check on voltage of each battery after charge. With the Epoch...I havent looked at anything. Just plug it in.
I see. Good points. One other question. I have a local golf cart dealer who claims that he has avoided Lithium batteries due to the upheaval happening in that technology and the idea that most companies won’t be around long enough to honor the warranty they provide. Do you know how long Epoch has been in the business?
Its absolutely perfect. Havent even looked under the seat in months. Still highly recomrnded. Also if your thinking of buying, use MVINTRIGUE for 10% off.
Thank you ! Are there any updates from the company on this battery since your purchase ? I had read there were some changes coming up at some point.@@mvintrigue-trawlerdiy1101
Really nothing. The #1 thing not addressed during the swap is forgetting to address the reed switch. The reed switch is a little switch that goes into the stock charger port. When you slide the stock charger in the reed switc, it is disconnected, which prevents the operation of the cart while charging. If you have bypassed the stock charge port you may need to connect the small wire to battery voltage to make the cart go.
Thanks for your videos they're great . I watched your Dakota Video way back when. Now I see your new video on a battery that I was looking at, and I appreciate it. Someone said that the new battery has issues with the BMS shorting out when they go on hills. Just curious if you have had any issues. Thanks.
No issues. But reports of the BMS shorting is not likely. More likely is the power required to drive a modified golf cart in a hilly area probably exceeds what the battery/bms can supply. The BMS will then shut down. The Dakotas had a continous rating of 100 amps and 200 amps for 3 seconds.. The Epoch is 120 amps continous and 200 amps for 30 seconds. If you have a modded cart with bigger motor and controller or the cart is loaded and you are going up steep hills its not to hard to exceed those parameters. In those cases, stepping up to a battery with high output like the Epoch 48 volt 30ah battery x4 or the Eco battery will be needed. These have a much higher output capacity but cost more as well. If you are in a stock cart and relatively flat terrain the more standard batteries like this Epoch will work great.
Price is pretty good for all that you get. Self heating, blue tooyh monitor and tethered monitor you can mount on the dash that gives audible warnings.
Sir, thank you for video and the great information in it. Is there a converter or step down from 36v to 12v for the accessories that you use or recommend?
The camera was right next to the charger, so it seemed loud. I have never noticed it otherwise. Really, the only thing i noticed was that there was just enough noise for me to confirm the charger was operating. I have already purchased six 100ah 12 volt batteries for the trawler. I think these are great for a boat.
@MV Intrigue- Trawler DIY Thanks, Happy to hear it's not as loud as the video. I bought the Epoch 36v 100ah for my future trolling motor... Can't wait to get it installed, it'll be a game changer for sure.
Do you have to turn the battery on to use it? I am looking to put some in my bass boat, and I really do not want to have to remember to turn on the batteries every time.
Very cool battery with great features! I ordered the 12v 50ah for my fishing kayak. Looking forward to hooking it up to my trolling motor! Thanks for the full rundown sir. Also, do you think It would be wise to have an enclosement case for the battery for further saltwater protection? Since I'll be ocean kayak fishing.
If I got the 48v 60Ah batteries set up, would this be adequate for cruising around the yard and subdivision, yard work or should I step up to the 48v 90Ah (I’m not really wanting to drop $2500! tho)
I personally would step up to the 90ah 3 battery system. Its hard to pay that amount. I paid that when I put the old Dakotas in and they were overpriced for what I got. But, even the Dakotas would have probably outlasted me. At 90 ah and 300 amp pulse output it will handle whatever you will be doing with your stock cart. And it will do it for many years with maintenance. The 2 battery kit might be ok. Its rated at 120amps continous and 200 peak. It would probably be ok. And if its not I believe you can probably just order another one and drop it in as long as too much operation time doesnt pass.
No problem. Mine is still going strong. I just did some testing on a 12 volt 100ah battery to see how many amps i could pull out of it. It far exceeded the rated specs.
From people in the business, I’ve heard nothing but negative reviews about Dakota batteries. It seems America was sold the bill of goods about them. They simply do not hold up against all what’s out there now, conversely, the epic batteries are the best in the business from an engineering standpoint, and have been taken apart by the best people in the business, and stand up to scrutiny very well. There is no comparison.
I never really had a problem with my Dakotas. But you can get essentially the same battery from Chins or AmpereTime for $300 vs 899. The Epoch or Kilovault delivers much more for much less. I suppose market forces will inevitably force changes. Its still a rapidly developing area. Exciting for us consumers though.
The 3 Dakotas worked well...but it did have balance issues from time to time. The Epoch is tailor-made for a cart with its little monitor and other features.
@@mvintrigue-trawlerdiy1101 Great video. I have the exact same cart and your video caught my eye. I have a couple local cart shops by me and one of them said if I convert to lithium I will need to change my motor and controller if I want to avoid burning down my house? I like the idea of one battery like the Epoch.
@danrg3000 you definitely dont need to change anything. Mine is all stock. I have been running lifepo4 in this cart for about 4 years and this is the original motor and controller from 2001.
Dakota's were the product of a healthy advertising campaign and were seen as the only game in town when it came to being the saviors over lead acid. They made their fortune but are behind the times. I gage the health of a company by product availability on their website. If you see, unavailable, sold out, coming soon etc... it's most likely they cannot afford to keep up inventory, not that they are selling product in droves. The market is flooded with offerings currently and competition is heating up. Most companies are scouring the competition and pricing pretty close to each other. Traders are saying that a big decrease in pricing is soon coming late Fall of 2023. If one or two companies introduce a quality battery of 48volts and 100ah at 1500.00 including a charger, the others will be forced to follow or fall out of competition. Component builders are DIY'ing battery packs at half the price in their garages. The near future is promising.
I know. I think the brand was taken over by people that dont know the pronunciation and definition of Epoch and why its a great battery name...lol. But its all good.
I just bought a 36v for my trolling motor. Can’t wait to get rid of all 3 of my heavy trolling batteries and just have one for the trolling motor. I wish I knew about this brand before. I bought a different brand for all my marine electronics and it’s fine. But would have loved to support this American company with that battery as well and have both of mine run off the same app. I’m still using a group 31 AGM battery for starting my OptiMaxx, because it’s still not approved by mercury to use lithium starting batteries, even though some people do it with that motor. My boat is still under warranty and I don’t want to chance anything.
I wish I knew too..lol. I paid a ton of money for those Dakotas. BTW the Epoch is still perfect.
Thanks for the great review. Based on yours and other reviews I ordered two of the 460 AH batteries for my motorhome to replace 3 shot Lifeline 8D AGM batteries. I was never really happy with the Lifeline batteries and they are years past their life. Being able to see battery performance on the app will be really nice!
I have several vid where we bench test the 460s. Be sure to set bulk/absorb voltage at 13.8 or 13.9 and float to 13.4 or 13.5.
Thank you for the great review. I pulled the trigger finally, after days of research and comparisons, this one was a solid choice and a great price right now. Impatiently awaiting my Epoch 36V to arrive!
Awesome James. I am super happy with mine. Its next level, but at a great price.
Great video! I'm upgrading from acid/lead batteries and just bought 36v Dakota (3x12) today and waiting for them to ship. I'd like to have that bluetooth setup and the capacity meter with the Epoch but you've convinced me the Dakotas are a quality product. Dakota is going to be easier for me to make payments too. Plus, the rest of the technical stuff is lost on me. I've got a golf buddy here in the park here who's going to help me get my cart set-up. Thanks again for the review
Great video! I have already purchased the same battery but have not installed it yet. After watching the video, I am even more confident that I made the right choice. 👍
For a 36 volt cart you really cant go wrong with this battery.
Outstanding review. I had pretty much decided to buy two Dakota lithiums for my boats 24v trolling motor. I watched the videos on the Dakotas and read all of the reviews. Most positive and of course there were negative reviews as well. So here I am deciding to buy the Dakotas and I saw an ad for the Epoch batteries. I started watching the RUclips videos and was intrigued with Epochs construction and the reviews. Tonight watching this video your insightful review sealed the deal for me. Instead of buying two 12v 100ah Dakotas I’ll buy the single 24v 100 Epoch battery and charger. Thanks for a great comparison review!
So glad it helped. Dakotas are not bad but you get so much more from the Epoch for the price. And if you were going to wire two 12 volts in series to make 24 a single battery is the way to go. But if you really want Dakotas i have 3 for sale...lol
Btw..if you look up Rod Collins on facebook he has several groups such as "lithium batteries on boats" and Marine How To. Contact him for a 10% off code
@@mvintrigue-trawlerdiy1101 No I think I’ll let you keep them!😄
@@mvintrigue-trawlerdiy1101 on the digital monitor that comes with the battery can you tell me the approximate length of the cable that connects to the battery? I’ll check his videos out.
@@mvintrigue-trawlerdiy1101 Which Rod Collin’s is he? There’s 3 or 4 listed.
If you could do a video on the wiring up and routing of the wires and if there are any special considerations regarding the golf cart forward/reverse controller cables etc that need to go to the shunt before the motor or controller that would be awesome. I just by accident ran across a RUclips video entitled: "Electric Farm Cart - Part Two - Lithium Battery Installation" where the fella states something about a motor cable having to go to the shunt before being connected to the motor. It was a bit fast and hard for me to understand. Thank you Sir, - M
Says 200A max discharge for 60 seconds. Does it have a higher spike allowance over that for short duration? Just wondering for acceleration on a hill, or under heavy load. Don’t need the sustained power, but don’t want to overload and error out.
Yes it does. I have hit 200 before and never had a trip. However if you are going to mod your cart with big motors and big controllers there may be better options. Really ath that point youd want to upgrade to 48v or 72 volt.
I searched through all of your videos but I could not find one where you install your Renogy battery monitor and shunt to watch. Unless I didn't locale the video......thanks.
That’s an awesome battery and lighter then having the Dakota batteries. Thanks for the info.
thanks a bunch
Can you give us a update on the road distance your getting on the epoch 36v?
I have been meaning to do that test. And I will at some point. The problem is that to run a physical distance test takes HOURS..lol. Its like going on a road trip. Bring some drinks and some snacks, the Garmin GPS to track actual distance and set out for half a day. When I have the time I will try to get that done. But the battery is still performing beautifully and I would expect about 45 miles out of it. Give or take.
So, I have my Epoch 36 volt orders and should be here on Wednesday. Coming from Georgia and I'm only in Delaware. Your video's convinced me. Thank you for taking the time to do them and all of your testing and knowledge. Just a question: is there correct warranty info on this battery somewhere ? Kevin advised me it is three year full replacement then after that pro rated and or tech suppot. Can you clarify that or elaborate on it a bit ? Thank you, Mike
Kevin is the main main there so what he said should be correct. I think I have had mine for at least 2 years now and have not had a single issue. You wont be disappointed.
Just had a question.....what is the other port for on the side of the battery ? I can't find any info on it in my owners manual. Thanks !
I dont actually know. I plugged a few things in and nothing ever came up. Maybe for future upgrades or test equipment? Really not sure.
Thanks for reply, appreciate it !@@mvintrigue-trawlerdiy1101
Hello again. I'm having a issue getting my Renogy Model RBM500 battery monitor to work on the Epoch 36 Volt 100 AH battery. I have hooked it up according the instructions. When I press the power button on the battery to power it on, it beeps and shuts down. I have the shunt wired into the system as described in the instructions that came in the box and have watched other videos of folks hooking them up in trailers, mobile homes etc etc. I was hoping you might be able to shed some light on the issue as I have the same battery that you have from Epoch, 36 Volt 100 AH. Thank you for any assistance sir. Mike........
Great video! Im doing this now. Did you need a new charger?
You need a lithium capable charger. The one Epoch offers is well matched and charges at 20 amps. So worst case scenario is it takes 5 hours to charge from completely dead. Or say 2 hours to charge when the battery is 40% used (60% remains).
Just watched this again. Very good video. Keep us updated. Can you give a price with the charger and, it that the charger you recommend for this battery ? Thanks again !
I am not a dealer or have any special relationship to sell from Epoch. If you call them they may have a 10% off deal. Also, just use the Epoch charger. I have tried 3 brands of chargers and the Epoch is very good for the price.
Very nice batteries, awaiting a larger 12v battery from epoch for my RV.
Me too!
Have you installed the batteries in your RXV yet? If so, how are they doing?
@@jamesryan7884 looks like it’s running a bit behind in production. We went with the LiTime 400Ah for the time being and it’s doing great so far.
I'm looking at adding the 12.8v 460 Ah version to my yamaha jet boat where I have a lot of aftermarket speakers and subwoofers. Specs state continous 300 amp discharge and 500 amp 30 second discharge. Should this not be enough for cranking or is there other requirements for that? I'm hoping to use it as a single solution dual purpose battery, what do you think?
I have just tested the 300AH Essential battery in another vide and I have 2 of the 460AH batteries testing on the bench. A video will be out soon for that one. On your application I would need some details. What Yamaha Jet boat do you have? I had the SX 192 for a little while. I believe they use a stator type system to charge the batteries and output voltage. I dont think the amp rating is very high. In addition if you hook up a Lifepo4 battery in the system it will likely max out the charging system that could result in failure. On the starting side...the 460ah battery could probably start those engine easy. But i still wouldn't recommend it. IMO the best way for you to go is to simply add the 460 AH battery (or other battery you decide to get) and to move over all the "accessories" from the existing battery to the 460AH. I did this on my old Yamaha and that change was done right at the battery since there were two harnesses hooked up to the battery. One for engine systems and starting and the other was for all accessories. I literally just had to disconnect one of the two ring terminals and see which was which by turning on the radio or trying to start the boat to figure out which was which. Once you have the accessories on the big 460 AH battery you are all set. Just charge the battery with an Epoch or other lithium charger prior to going out. There is so much capacity in that 460 ah battery that I dont think you will use half of it. Then return home and plug in the charger again. One other thing you can add is something like the Victron DC to DC charger. Like the 30 amp model. You can then hook that up between your existing lead acid start battery and the lifepo4 battery. That will safely charge the 460AH lifepo4 battery up to 30amp if the Yamaha start can put out that much. I believe you can derate it if needed too to something lower like 20 amps if needed. But consider this. If your 460AH battery is at half capacity of 215 ah and you want to fully charge it using the Yamaha charging system safely at say 20 amps it will take you around 12 hours of engine running. Thats another was to show how much capacity something like the 460ah battery has in comparison. You arent likely to use all that power in a day. Heck you could add an inverter to get 120 volts on the boat and probably run a microwave and cook some meals and never come close to using all that capacity. If anything is not clear just ask some more questions ill be happy to answer when I get a chance.
@@mvintrigue-trawlerdiy1101 amazing looking forward to the video! It's really nice to see the details and someone mess with something you are wanting to buy. My boat is a 05 AR 230HO twin engine. You are correct they have magneto stators and yes they are very low output I believe 14 amp. But...
When I bought the boat it was heavily upgraded by the previous owner including upgrading the system to NMEA 2000 with a Axiom MFD (normally all the gauges are mechanical on the older models) and adding an alternator to the port engine (this engine has a quick disconnnect/connect on the back of the boat which hooks up to a zapata racing flyboard) so the starboard engine is off and only the port engine is running it can charge batteries while Flyboarding and playing music (the high power stereo includes 3 amps running 12 total speakers and 6 subwoofers)
As far as causing failure on the original charging system I honestly have no clue what's happening here to the stators when mixed with the alternator and high watt draw from the amps but I haven't noticed any warnings or codes when I have hooked up my laptop to the engine ECU with a YDS cable so it must be okay.
But now that you mention that concern maybe I will play it safe moving forward and get a cheaper AGM/GEL dual purpose battery (although I have been eying the new Epoch dual purpose 120 Ah battery coming in December) for cranking the motors and isolate all the accessories to the Epoch 460 Ah and hook up the alternator charging to only the 460 Ah battery just like you are suggesting.
I would even consider skipping out on the alternator (because it seems so complicated and expensive) but I'm not sure it will actually last without charging it out on the water for my case. I'm guessing my 3 amps alone are 5000 Watts RMS output but I don't really know if that's reliable math to assume that is actually what is also being drawn from the battery. (Though I read the output is 20% less than what the input/draw is, suggesting it is actually drawing even more than 5,000 watts) So if it is safe to assume that is the case and if I used the stereo on high and it really did draw 5,000 watts and I added 1000 more watts to that number for other electronics so 6,000 watts divided by the voltage rating of 12.8v = roughly about 470 amps draw and if I can only use 90%-95% of the battery this means this battery would barely last me not even an hour. (I think I'm over estimating but I would rather be safe than sorry here and I suppose I should have tried measuring the actual amp draw from the cable when in use but the boat is in storage currently and I'm out of the country until way after Black Friday which I'm hoping to buy everything I need with deals hopefully all in these next two weeks)
Since I already have an alternator pulley on the port side installed by the previous owner and a rack for the alternator, I have been planning to upgrade the alternator (current one is a 130 amp off an old Ford Truck and no ignition protection - I don't want to blow up by being cheap) and get a Marine grade one... Balmar XT 170 or Balmar XT 250 is on my list, and I do indeed need your help as you have real life experience using the Epoch battery and Victron system and probably marine Alternators I would bet.
So since the Epoch battery is internal BMS when it gets fully charged it essentially shuts down/stops accepting charge correct? And if the alternator keeps trying to charge it that sounds like it will damage the battery. So can you confirm my plan or tell me what I need to do to have the Epoch battery communicate with Victron system which in turn ultimately will signal the alternator to turn off when the Epoch battery is full or near full.
The biggest thing is if you can confirm if the Epoch battery has a robust/intuitive enough BMS capability via canbus to actually enable functions on the victron OS or is it just data to view? I was unable to get a response via email from them but someone did reply to me from their IG page with the following response: "The Victron communication enables all battery data to be communicated to the Victron operating system ..has direct access and communication to the BMS"
Basically on paper my plan I came up with after getting help and researching is the following if you can confirm or fix any parts that won't work:
1. Epoch 460 connected to a Victron Cerbo GX on it's "BMS-Can" port in order for the Epoch BMS to tell it when the battery is full
2. Cerbo then will trigger the Wakespeed WS500 (An external regulator for Alternators - this one is canbus enabled) though does the Cerbo also have a output canbus for me to run to the WS500?
3. WS500 regulator will shut off the Balmar XT 170 or XT 250 Alternator
Option 2 - more mechanical approach:
1. Epoch 460 is connected to Victron Cerbo GX
2. Cerbo GX is connected to the victron BP220 BatteryProtect Relay (Mode C on the app utilized for "Lithium" where it acts as an external control and turns off when it's told to by the Epoch internal BMS)
3. BP 220 will be hooked up the the ignition wire on an external regulator (In this scenario I would go with the cheaper non-canbus regulator from Balmar the MC-618)
5. The MC-618 regulator will shut the Balmar alternator off
@@jemdost6724 IMO option 1 is the best approach and should work. I would divide the systems by keeping the normal stator charging coupled to the normal batteries and then use your alternator with the Wakespeed 500. One thing about the Epoch with "victron Comms" that is not well explained is that this implies that the battery with victron comms uses the newer Victron V2 protocol. When you have the Cerbo GX you go to settings and set it to lithium and enable the DVSS and select the Epoch BMS CAN as the controlling agent in various settings. At that point its actually the Epoch BMS that controls the charging. The other dozen settings in the Cerbo are irrelevant. There is also a new external regulator called the ARCO Zues that is supposed to be even better. You might look into that. The Balmar MC-618 will not do this in the same way. Thats what I have on my Trawler and I should have gotten the Wakespeed or may change to the Arco Zues. The watt rating for the stereo is not quite rated in that way since its not a continuous peak. No doubt it will be pulling some power but its probably half the values you state averaged over time at max output. Your set up sounds interesting. Keep researching. Once you have a normal alternator and external requlator...the sky is the limit for you.
@@mvintrigue-trawlerdiy1101 Awesome feels great to get some confirmation as the price tag for all this was making it hard without having enough confidence it would all work together so thanks a ton!
Arco Zues looks really sweet indeed, sounds like an exciting future upgrade for you. I might go with it too, thanks for the share!
Could you share with me everything I will need to order to make all of this work such as cables fuses or will I benefit from getting a GX Touch 50 screen or any other victron products? I saw one of you other video you had a lot more going on and a bluetooth USB dongle I believe.
You are probably right with the stereo but either way I think I will need to opt in for installing the alternator still so looks like I'll be moving forward with this project.
@@jemdost6724 All of this is predicated on if you were to install the alternator. But IMO you probably want the cerbo GX, touch 50 (because you will need to set certain parameters), either wakesepeed or Arco Zues regulator, and that might be it. I would probably opt to get a good regular 12 volt charger to charge the batteries from a wall outlet when you are at home. As for cables thats hard to say because youll need to see what each item comes with. I bought all my Victron stuff used so I dont know what comes with what. I have since had to buy a few extra cables here and there as I figured out I needed them but thats not a big deal and they are cheap. Now please understand you have to continue your own research. All iof this is relatively new to me as well and in reality its relatively new to the entire industry. As you do your research you will see the information is actually not readily forthcoming because the vast number of ways things can be hooked up, systems are all different and information is disorganized. It took me 4 weeks of reading to get to where I am now and I am not 100% of the way there. Maybe 80%. You could probably even skip the Cerbo GX. But for everything it does and its relatively low cost, and ability to expand various capabilities in the future I would probably opt for it. Everything we have discussed is about everything I know. And if you ask others you will get different answers..lol. So please ensure you make this project your own and make all your purchases based on your own knowledge and research. Make sure you take some videos of your project when its done. That will be one hell of a set up. Actually...do you have a link to the alternator conversion for the yamaha 1.8? I would be interested to see that.
UPDATE:....I got it working....I think there was some type of coating on the small red shunt wire end and I sanded it off and it made contact better with the positive terminal .
Awesome. I wasnt ignoring you here. I am the moderator on the Epoch forums and was part of the discussion there. Glad you got it
Thanks so much. There is a learning curve here for sure. Love your videos, ordered a second 36 Volt battery because of your great information ! Thanks again, Mike C.@@mvintrigue-trawlerdiy1101
Today I installed my 36 volt battery like the one you have there. I plugged the battery meter in but it won't work. I tried both ports, black one and blue one. Any suggestions ? Thank you, Mike......
Not really. Take a very close look at the port and plug for any bent pins. If none just go to the Epoch website and click " support" and schedule a call back. Have them send a new meter to try.
Thank you. I contacted the office in Georgia and they sent me out a new meter in two days. It cured the issue, thank you again for all of your help and answering all of my questions. I ordered another 36 volt battery for another cart.
@@MacMcCabe2456 Fantastic! Good deal man
I have this exact battery that I just installed in ez go 2005. Today was the first day we drove it, works awesome! I have a question about charging. I am new to lithium and wanted to know once plugged in do you have to leave to 100% or can you unplug if needed at a lesser than 100% capacity ?
You can unplug it and use it. Just have to be sure that you do charge occasionally to 100% because thats when the BMS will balance each cell.
Another great Video, thanks for the content
Thanks a bunch. Much appreciated. I mainly posted this because my opinion is that many of the original "gold standard" lifepo4 batteries such as Battle Born and Dakota have not kept pace with both innovation and price competition. I dont want to see someone over pay for "blind" battery.
do you have any modifications to the cart. controller? motor? just curious how you are getting 20 mph. thanks
No mods. The cart is a 36 volt PDS cart. Only carts that have a rev/fwd switch on the dash are PDS carts. If it is a PDS cart you can change the speed setting by using a jumper plug that gets hooked into the harness. The red freedom plug sets the controller to max speed of 19 mph. I get 20 because i have slightly larger diameter tires. When I air them up to max I get 21 occasionally due to a slightly larger diameter.
Great video but I’m baffled as to why you would just get rid of a perfectly fine set of batteries. Why not ride it until you have a sign of a problem and then pull the trigger?
Because three batteries wired in series, one will always eventually get out of sync with the others. You could use an external balancer but that's just more cost and maintenance. Once the batteries are out of sync, steps will be required to bring them back in sync. None of that is too big a deal, but I dont want to tinker with my golf cart....at all. I have enough projects to deal with..lol. When you go to a single battery, whether 36 volt of 48 volt, all the balancing will be done internally by the BMS. With the Dakotas I got stranded before I figured out the series imbalance issues. Then after that I was always checking each battery individually with a meter to check on voltage of each battery after charge. With the Epoch...I havent looked at anything. Just plug it in.
I see. Good points. One other question. I have a local golf cart dealer who claims that he has avoided Lithium batteries due to the upheaval happening in that technology and the idea that most companies won’t be around long enough to honor the warranty they provide. Do you know how long Epoch has been in the business?
Can you give a current update on the Epoch battery ? Thanks, appreciate it !
Its absolutely perfect. Havent even looked under the seat in months. Still highly recomrnded. Also if your thinking of buying, use MVINTRIGUE for 10% off.
Thank you ! Are there any updates from the company on this battery since your purchase ? I had read there were some changes coming up at some point.@@mvintrigue-trawlerdiy1101
Those batteries are very nice!
They are next level IMO....
Just change from lead acid to Epoch battery? What else do I will I need to do to make this work ? I have an old ez go cart . Thx great video as well
Really nothing. The #1 thing not addressed during the swap is forgetting to address the reed switch. The reed switch is a little switch that goes into the stock charger port. When you slide the stock charger in the reed switc, it is disconnected, which prevents the operation of the cart while charging. If you have bypassed the stock charge port you may need to connect the small wire to battery voltage to make the cart go.
Thanks for your videos they're great . I watched your Dakota Video way back when. Now I see your new video on a battery that I was looking at, and I appreciate it. Someone said that the new battery has issues with the BMS shorting out when they go on hills. Just curious if you have had any issues. Thanks.
No issues. But reports of the BMS shorting is not likely. More likely is the power required to drive a modified golf cart in a hilly area probably exceeds what the battery/bms can supply. The BMS will then shut down. The Dakotas had a continous rating of 100 amps and 200 amps for 3 seconds.. The Epoch is 120 amps continous and 200 amps for 30 seconds. If you have a modded cart with bigger motor and controller or the cart is loaded and you are going up steep hills its not to hard to exceed those parameters. In those cases, stepping up to a battery with high output like the Epoch 48 volt 30ah battery x4 or the Eco battery will be needed. These have a much higher output capacity but cost more as well. If you are in a stock cart and relatively flat terrain the more standard batteries like this Epoch will work great.
Looks awesome ! I will have to look into those.
Price is pretty good for all that you get. Self heating, blue tooyh monitor and tethered monitor you can mount on the dash that gives audible warnings.
@@mvintrigue-trawlerdiy1101 - I saw that - $600 for a 12v - how far can you draw them down?
Lifepo4 is usually solid down to 10%. But i generally try to avoid going below 20%.
Sir, thank you for video and the great information in it. Is there a converter or step down from 36v to 12v for the accessories that you use or recommend?
None in particular
Amazon has tons of them for very cheap.
Great video. So will you be adding one to your boat?
Is the charger really that loud? How loud was your previous charger?
The camera was right next to the charger, so it seemed loud. I have never noticed it otherwise. Really, the only thing i noticed was that there was just enough noise for me to confirm the charger was operating. I have already purchased six 100ah 12 volt batteries for the trawler. I think these are great for a boat.
@MV Intrigue- Trawler DIY Thanks, Happy to hear it's not as loud as the video.
I bought the Epoch 36v 100ah for my future trolling motor... Can't wait to get it installed, it'll be a game changer for sure.
Do you have to turn the battery on to use it? I am looking to put some in my bass boat, and I really do not want to have to remember to turn on the batteries every time.
You can just leave it on. Thats what I do. I only shut it off when working on the electrical wiring.
Very cool battery with great features! I ordered the 12v 50ah for my fishing kayak. Looking forward to hooking it up to my trolling motor! Thanks for the full rundown sir.
Also, do you think It would be wise to have an enclosement case for the battery for further saltwater protection? Since I'll be ocean kayak fishing.
No problem at all. Hope you enjoy it! Another enclosure wpuldnt hurt but i doubt its necessary.
If I got the 48v 60Ah batteries set up, would this be adequate for cruising around the yard and subdivision, yard work or should I step up to the 48v 90Ah (I’m not really wanting to drop $2500! tho)
I personally would step up to the 90ah 3 battery system. Its hard to pay that amount. I paid that when I put the old Dakotas in and they were overpriced for what I got. But, even the Dakotas would have probably outlasted me. At 90 ah and 300 amp pulse output it will handle whatever you will be doing with your stock cart. And it will do it for many years with maintenance. The 2 battery kit might be ok. Its rated at 120amps continous and 200 peak. It would probably be ok. And if its not I believe you can probably just order another one and drop it in as long as too much operation time doesnt pass.
@@mvintrigue-trawlerdiy1101 thanks for your input, great information here! Much appreciated!
I think Epoch battery is much more expensive than our 48v30ah GC2 golf carts battery
Is it just plug and play? I’m tired of dealing with lead acid and want to upgrade. Did you get the charger as well?
Can you provide dimensions for this battery please ? Thanks. Great video.....
Ill see if I can get them. They do providr dimension on the websitr but i dont think it includes the little feet.
I bet the Ms. has heard A LOT about this. That’s how I’d be, at least. Kid in a candy store.
Its it possible to replace my AGM batteries and replace with lithium batteries. I don't have solar but i do have a generator?
As long as you have a charger with a lithium profile. Actually an AGM profile works too but is not perfect. What is it going on?
Great Review ty very much
No problem. Mine is still going strong. I just did some testing on a 12 volt 100ah battery to see how many amps i could pull out of it. It far exceeded the rated specs.
From people in the business, I’ve heard nothing but negative reviews about Dakota batteries. It seems America was sold the bill of goods about them. They simply do not hold up against all what’s out there now, conversely, the epic batteries are the best in the business from an engineering standpoint, and have been taken apart by the best people in the business, and stand up to scrutiny very well. There is no comparison.
I never really had a problem with my Dakotas. But you can get essentially the same battery from Chins or AmpereTime for $300 vs 899. The Epoch or Kilovault delivers much more for much less. I suppose market forces will inevitably force changes. Its still a rapidly developing area. Exciting for us consumers though.
Does Epic manufacture the lithium battery by themselves?
Great video I also have a 36 volt ezgo txt and am looking at switching over to lithium, I do like the single battery rather than three 12 volt
The 3 Dakotas worked well...but it did have balance issues from time to time. The Epoch is tailor-made for a cart with its little monitor and other features.
@@mvintrigue-trawlerdiy1101 Did you have to make any other mods to the golf cart? Are you still using factory motor and controller?
@@QuesoRUclips factory motor and controller and wires.
@@mvintrigue-trawlerdiy1101 Great video. I have the exact same cart and your video caught my eye. I have a couple local cart shops by me and one of them said if I convert to lithium I will need to change my motor and controller if I want to avoid burning down my house? I like the idea of one battery like the Epoch.
@danrg3000 you definitely dont need to change anything. Mine is all stock. I have been running lifepo4 in this cart for about 4 years and this is the original motor and controller from 2001.
Thanks !
Dakota's were the product of a healthy advertising campaign and were seen as the only game in town when it came to being the saviors over lead acid. They made their fortune but are behind the times. I gage the health of a company by product availability on their website. If you see, unavailable, sold out, coming soon etc... it's most likely they cannot afford to keep up inventory, not that they are selling product in droves. The market is flooded with offerings currently and competition is heating up. Most companies are scouring the competition and pricing pretty close to each other. Traders are saying that a big decrease in pricing is soon coming late Fall of 2023. If one or two companies introduce a quality battery of 48volts and 100ah at 1500.00 including a charger, the others will be forced to follow or fall out of competition. Component builders are DIY'ing battery packs at half the price in their garages. The near future is promising.
I agree
Dakota 's team ask my for our lifepo4 battery last month, is something wrong with their company?
If and when you call them they will pronounce Epoch as Epic. Don't know why they do this, but that is the case.
I know. I think the brand was taken over by people that dont know the pronunciation and definition of Epoch and why its a great battery name...lol. But its all good.
What is the battery sitting on, do you have a piece of wood that it sits on?
Yeah.. i put down some pieces of wood and attached the wood to the frame...the attached the Epoch to the wood.
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