Kobe Bryant the dude after basketball was an awesome man. Kobe Bryant the player on the floor was an absolute killer. But Kobe Bryant the dude while he was a laker (at least in the middle of his career) was psycopathic in his expectations of teammates and was legitimately dealing with some legal stuff that wasnt create. You can appreciate his talent and be sad that he's gone and still be realistic about who he was when he was actually here.
SAS was just speaking factually and Mccants is acting like a baby about it lol, it’s like he can’t accept that Kobe just isn’t a top 2 player of all time
@@Cheezkrispies131sas was speaking facts? this whole convo is subjective…who tf is Stephen a to act like iverson opinion is completely invalid 😂 That’s ur opinion he isn’t the greatest but acting like it’s just disrespectful is disrespectful
@@deeswagg21Steph was just debating Iverson the same way he debates Shannon (who he respects.) He didnt insult their actual character. SAS and Shannon go back and forth every day on this topic. They respect each other.
K Mart said it best based on what he said he heard MJ say, I'll never say I'm the best because all the guys who came before me that I didn’t get to play against. Which is respectful to those that came before you whose shoulders you stand upon.
@@teejaythomas4479he did tho… he just did it with his mind tho not with stats. He was clutch when they needed him tho but he was the leader of that squad.
Facts..they not saying anything negative about Kobe..they talking bout on the court not off the court..man I can’t believe Mccannots went to the University of North Carolina
I really respect what K-Mart said about how players from previous generations just automatically get casted aside for goat comparisons. U can say the game was in its early stages but sometimes u can wonder those players would be in the modern era with all of today’s resources at their disposal
Nah wondering what they would be like today is pointless. That person doesn’t exist. We judge them on how good the actually were. And way more people overrate older players and put them in the GOAT convo when they really shouldn’t be. Like bill Russell.
??? Ain't nobody calling the greats a bunch plumbers, we calls their competition plumbers. The greats in the 70s, 80s and 90s were the people with talents that exceeded their generations.@@sukhsidhu6824
@masongreen1371 What a contradictory comment, lol. You judge them against their peers in their era. If they dominated their era, how can they be overrated.
Maybe I'm the odd man out, but it's pointless to compare greats. I'm too busy admiring the greatness of these legends. Grown ass men get into their feelings simply because someone doesn't agree with what they feel...
Bro kobe was all their elber by years if they all the same age they not deferring to kobe. Ya just gone ignore all the external factors. We talking bout a bron who just won their first chip. Clearly the Nigga who been playing 15+ with 5 rings would be the leader
CAUSE IF U PAY CLOSE ATTENTION TO WHEN GILS SPEAKS ABOUT KOBE YOU'LL BEGIN TO SEE THE ACTUAL HATE HE HAS FOR THE MAMBA..TALKING THAT SHT ABOUT DROPPING 45,50 ON KOBE BUT NEVER HAD THE NUTS TO GUARD HIM...AND WE ALL KNOW KOBE IS GONNA GUARD THE OTHER TEAMS BEST GUARDS WEATHER HE'S INJURED AND STILL PLAYING OR ITS A BACK TO BACK NIGHT OR WHATEVER !!!!... HE'S COMING FOR SMOKE OFF TOP!!!!
no foreal. without kobe, there wouldnt be tatum, kyrie, kawhi, demar, lavine, soo many players man. there’s a saying that he is “your favorite player’s favorite player”. he was the one that got me into basketball and probably y’all too and countless others. even some lesser name players have kobe as their favorite like will barton, and rondae hollis jefferson, who we saw put up a crazy kobe-like performance in fiba
What always gets forgotten in the GOAT debate is that "Greatest of all time" means it is a comparison of greatness. Every player mentioned is acknowledged to be great. There are many players who have had great careers. The NBA celebrated their 75 list, and each of them were proud of that accomplishment. The main problem is there can only be one "Greatest of all time", but it definitely doesn’t mean a player is disrespected for being second or third.
Your right there is no GOAT debate because it’s MJ and it’s not close to argue anything other is foolish. MJ was being called the best ever before he even won a championship/ after the 1st 3Peat it was just a fact he was the best ever Bobby Knight said he was the best basketball player ever in 1984 before he played a NBA game
Because most people share Gil's opinion and not Kenyon's. You ask 95% of people this question and its Jordan or James with whoever as third. Kenyon not wrong for his opinion but he's in the minority, there is a debate about #1 and he just doesn't want to participate.
@@wesmyone9562 There is no true or false because you're dealing with human players and human critics, both from different eras of basketball. Kenyon is right about that. But there is consensus. You can say "given these arbitrary criteria, x person is best" and Kenyon/Rashad are using criteria that most people don't use so their opinion is not valid. I think that's Gil's point. They working on completely different criteria.
I 1000% agree with Kenyon Martin here. It’s not about stats, or rebounds, assists or points, it’s about who was the man who carried the weight of the entire league on his shoulders! At the end of the day that’s MJ, Kobe, and LeBron - period!
@bretb9206 Bird and Magic needed each other. Mj ran the 90's, kobe was the most recognizable nba player from 2000 to 2009, and Lebron was already almost equal to kobe in that regard by 2008 and now he's the most talked about NBA superstar, period.
Only thing i hate about it is media was scared to speak Kobe name when he was alive so i gotta respect mccants opinion cause Kobe would’ve been making them calls
Nothing iswrong with not havin him top two. Problem is when people make it seem like it’s disrespectful for him to be even in that conversation when there was a period he was 100% in it.
@@winteriscoming5081just because you play sexier don’t make you better clown 🤡 stone cold wasn’t the prettiest wrestler he still the greatest rice wasn’t the sexiest receiver he still the best ever you a joke lebron better face it clown 🤡
It’s not tho, because people who say it do so in a way to make it seem like he’s closest period when really it’s closest in style and skillset. He’s not closest in impact, statistics, accolades, add those and he’s closer to 10th than 2nd
It’s just hate man there’s no way in gods green earth a man whose played with every all star on the 2010 eastern all star team and is 4-10 in team finals , there’s no way you can have the biggest melt down in history and still call yourself the goat , lebron has all the longevity awards that’s cool but when it came down to it Kobe did the best with way worse than lebron most lebron fans are stat junkies
They're not saying closest as in ranking, they mean play style. But your overall ranking has be a mix of your abilities showcased and your achievements. It's not just one thing. And those ppl that rank kobe 5 or 6 most likely think there are 4 to 5 players who have a better resume mixed with ability
Gil came in saying sports analyst use stats and players don’t. But he is using stats to argue against Kobe being in the top 2. It’s a contradiction that they were trying to point out but Gil just couldn’t grasp that lol
Kenyon Martin one of my fav NBA players. I love the way he breaks down his way of the greatest. Should be looked that way. Generations are different and rules change
Actually Muhammad Ali coined the rearm “Greatest of all time” he used to say it in the ring. “I’m the greatest of all times” go check y’all facts that was way before 1990
THANK YOU ! Idk if they didn’t mention that cause they were specifically talking about the acronym G.O.A.T but the term it’s self definitely was created by Ali
Gil: “we as players don’t care about stats, because we played” Also Gil: “He has to pass his resume” Rashad 7 times: “isn’t resume stats?” Gil: “Resume!” 🤣🤣🤣
He answered this. He said Kobe would be #1 and TMac would be up there if we were just going off skill. What differentiates Kobe and T Mac is resume. If T Mac had Kobe’s resume. We would say T Mac was greater Are yall not listening. He also stated that Kobe didn’t get to finish his resume due to injuries
I make the same argument Rashid as well if its not about rings then what we talking so then I say if rolls was reversed who the goat Give Lebron the rings and then Kobe the stats who the goat and the goal keep getting pushed
Gil and K mart makes the most sense. Gil is saying it’s a mix of both of stats and skills Mvcants is just going off skill. But then the rest of his players contradicts his logic
This is probably mccants best take and ppl still hate 😭 there is no goat , there’s amazing players that carried the game we love . The fact we try to pick and choose one person for a game that has 30 team and over 75 years is sad . Big ups to the greats and RIP KOBE
There's been some times I watched the show and wasn't feeling what McCants was or wasn't saying...BUT I LOVE THIS DUDE..NO HOMO. HE TRULY STANDS ON BUSINESS AND SAYS WHAT HE MEANS AND MEANS WHAT HE SAYS!
Kobe Stop playing basketball when he tore his Achilles, that’s mind- boggling to think that’s when his game slowed down after playing damn near 2 decades. That man was a f*king machine literally the definition of that word, put some respect on that man’s name god rest his soul 🙌🏾🐍 🐍🐍🐍
Doesn't mean there can't be negative things said about him. He was good at basketball but from all accounts wasn't a very good person, but I mean I have never known a rapist be a good person either so.
@@winstonwinston2703all Gil was saying is if it’s already determined it’s Lebron and Jordan at the top 2, nobody is gonna mention the 3rd in the goat debate.. which is obvious lmao.
People don't remember that Kenyon didn't feel comfortable speaking because of his speech impediment (stuttering) and he was the most eloquent in making his point
With respect to Kobe, being deceased doesn't exit you from basketball conversations. That's like saying "Ok, Bill Russell is dead we don't need to bring him up again in these conversations."
@@ricardoalvarez8415the fact that you feel that way disproves Gils whole point. He’s tryna make it seem like the conversation can’t consist of 3 people, when a lot of people have the conversation and bring up 3 people or even more
@@ricardoalvarez8415Shaq, Tim Duncan, Kareem and Magic are better🤷🏾♂️. I swear yall only put Kobe in the top three like yall are more than ever before because he died
The problem with Gilbert’s argument is that it only works if EVERYBODY has the same top two players, which we know isn’t the case. There are people who have Kareem over Mike, there are people with Wilt over Kareem, there are people with Kobe over LeBron….it goes on and on. And Gilbert said everybody can have their opinion but he would have to ignore all of those other opinions for his argument to work.
@@memcrew1 yea and it makes it easy to weed out the low iq mouth breathers that are only fans that haven't played. its between bron and mj. MJ had a movie like type career to summarize it and bron is the best floor general of all time with the scoring to back it up. Nobody in history will be to able to carry a team the way bron carried those cavs ever again.
@jamarpyatt4303 but who was being asked? Are you taking that opinion from "journalists" or players?? Gilbert just literally said Kobe is the best player he's ever seen play, but somehow, he can't be in Gilbert's goat debate. That don't make sense. And Gilbert's watched and played against LeBron and Mike.
Before Kobe passed. There wasn't much of a greatest debate. We accepted that Kobe was possibly #2. Every one seemed OK with that. What happened is Lebron went straight to the top being compared against Jordan. That's why Kobe is dismissed. He wasn't debated against Jordan.
Realistically if you did a Top five based on pure talent vs a list based on accomplishments and status, you'd have two completely different lists. The only way to have a definitive list is too align both.
That’s basically what Gil is saying mccants just don’t want to concede that talent alone doesn’t make you the goat. If that’s the case it’s been more players that were more talented than kobe hell Kevin Durant might be the most talented player I’ve ever seen from the offensive standpoint and has basically the same resume as kobe post Shaq but isn’t in the goat discussion. If you’re going to use the goat debate you need metrics to determine that. If they say who their personal goat is it’s subjective and anything could be used.
There are way to manyvfactors that cause a rise or dip in stats. Thats obvious. No player paths are the same. Some drafted to lesser teams some to stronger teams. Some have injuries. Some stick it out with 1 team. You can only go off of all around skill. Not the numbers but ability to use several skills. Defense and offense. Left hand and right hand, boxing out, footwork, those things. maybe can kinda factor have at least 2 or 3 championships becuse winning on the largest stage matters.
@@edreddinghe does not have the same resume as Kobe. Kobe has a slam dunk champion, 4x All Star MVP, 5 rings, 2x finals MVP, 18x ALL NBA (11x all NBA 1st team), 12x all defensive team (9x all defensive 1st team), 3rd with the most 50 point games, 3rd in most 40 point games, 2nd in the most 60 point games, 08-10 only player to score 600 or more points in the postseason, etc I really can keep on going they do not have the same resume only thing KD has over KD is more scoring titles and Kobe would’ve probably have more if he didn’t play with Shaq early in his career.
If we talking stats why would lebron be above Kobe ?? Because he’s played more games ? More playoff runs more game 7s more finals losses most all star teammates tying Larry bird (7) only great thing lebron has done tbh is his longevity lebron hasn’t even beat more 50+ winning teams in a playoffs than curry Kobe or Jordan why do you think he lost so many finals he wasn’t even the best player in the league he lost 3 times to the same team in the finals he was swept 3 times in a finals he’s led his teams to more finals losses than wins why the hell is he even in the goat convo ? Be realistic he’s switched teams joined up with great players in order to win has been gifted great players has been apart of the best teams assembled and have lost more than any other top 5 superstar in league history
@@princezay3608 he also has a higher career scoring average, average more Rebs per career, more assists, higher 2 and 3 pt %, two more finals mvps, 3 more league mvps, more career points, Rebs and assists by a substantial margin despite only playing 1 more season. Based on accolades magic clears kobe as well. So outside of saying purely I think kobe is the goat bc I think he was game was more visually pleasing and you liked his mentality which is purely subjective their isn’t a huge resume based argument for why he is the goat.
In other words mccants we seen it before son,you see kobe would call stephen A to tell him what to talk about,that will keep him relevant,MJ was ask that question who will he pick?MJ said dominant of the game it's lebron,rings it's kobe,because he has 5 lebron has 4,FACTS
@user-lb3nk7ff7p Speaking facts, but Kobe is not 14th all time. If the argument is on Career success + peak, he's between 7-9 (Between Duncan, Kobe, Bird). Shaq was more dominant at his peak but Kobe had the greater career because Shaq fell off hard torwards 2nd half of his career. Shaq is either 10-12 (between Shaq, Hakeem, Curry). If the argument was purely on peak Shaq would easily be top 10.
I appreciate McCants being as passionate as he is, I’ve gone all in on emotion, had it works both ways for me good and bad, but I’ve never really regretted it.
MJ was more athletic a bit better defender, Kobe was better 3 point shooter, better ball handler and had better footwork, because MJ was more talented athletically doesn't mean he was better overall, Kobe was the most skilled player ever even over Jordan.@@sportsfan120577
McCants knows nothing about work ethic. It’s krazy to call him your brother in blood when you lasted 5 season cuz you couldn’t knock off the goofy shit. Ayo Gil, I think McCants is a bigger bust than Kwame.
@@sportsfan120577that's true, so Kobe had to practice and work harder to achieve what Jordan did, and he only came up one chip shy of Jordan, and if they had beaten the Celtics in 2008 he would have gotten 2 3peats.
Gilbert is lost in his own dumb argument. Every time they started making valid points you could tell he was just trying to find a way to dispute it, he yelled out Drake😂😂😂
It's so true, all the players that played with Kobe hold him up waaay higher than the media because the stats don't represent what he could do on the court
@@maxseed601injuries is part of the game. If we raise Kobe’s ppg total we will have to do the same for everyone else. We will have to remove Jordans Wizards years. Duncan’s last year where he dealt with injuries. You can’t do that though
They literally called him "The Big Fundamental". If we're talking about skill why do we never talk about Tim Duncan? If you're being honest you can't say Duncan wasn't terrifying if he was playing against your team.
Didn't play against Jordan with a Bulls jersey then, and against the Cavs Lebron that wasn't the young one who already banished him to hell in the Playoffs with his talk and mental game.
So if Lameo ball says the best player he’s ever seen is Lebron that makes Lebron the goat? If five years in the future Ja Morant says the best player he’s ever seen is Luka does that make Luka the goat now? This argument is extremely baseless. The literal only way for this argument to be logical is for an all time great to play every season of the nba from first nba season to now, and even then that doesn’t make the argument good
@@sumnahlennon5449 Gil has a bug up his ass about Jordan. It has to do with how mediocre he was as a player while Jordan was still playing. The guy only broke 20 four times in his career. Jordan was over 30 his rookie season. Gil is a b'tch
My thing for Kobe 12 all defensive teams that means not only was he giving you 30 but than locking you up in the other end so yeah Kobe did it on both ends and was clutch in the end 💯
@@erichvonmanstein6876he was the greatest defensive & offensive shooting guard pretty much his entire career name someone else if anything he should’ve had more lol. One way I got Kobe over Bron & 2nd all time is, even though it’s an opinion im comfortable if he went against any of the “goats” in the finals id take him winning everytime it could get ugly be he got the job fuckin done at all costs
Lebron had the chance to play Kobe in 09 but lost to Dwight Howard & Kobe went thru them like it was nothin & don’t act like the Lakers were stacked or anything, won back to back chips with no top 75 player 🏆
I agree with Kenyon Kobe gets skipped over because he caught a case. It’s the same reason he didn’t win more mvps . Media can’t talk about him because of that.
@@deeswagg21those “people”you’re referring to are a very small vocal minority…globally speaking Kobe is beloved damn near everywhere especially in China
Man Kobe is extremely big outside USA, Lebron’s popularity and influence is only a tenth of Kobe’s. Lebron is definitely biggest domestically in USA after MJ though.
This is a GOAT level exercise in dragging an unnecessary debate! K-Mart was all of us in this instance. You guys keep going we over here enjoying the conversation 😂
When did he make him look foolish? KM started off foolish when he said LJ don’t have skills. You don’t get stats without skills. The more skills the better the stats.
@@DCNortheast202BullBoy false. There have been a ton a big guys and athletic guys with very little skill that got stats on pure physicality, while more skilled guys get lesser stats bc of their lesser physical gifts. Just plain wrong.
@@linh811how tf is size a skill 🤣 I’ll give it to bron he’s skilled in his layup package & passing the ball but Kobe wins with overall skills in ways to score from anywhere, best footwork of all time, defense, scoring on double / triple teams so many things
What was he wrong about? He didn't articulate himself the best but his point was 100% accurate. Kobe isn't the most talented player to ever step on a basketball court, not even close if we're being honest. He also doesn't have the best stats or the most accomplishments. What puts him so high is the resume he built for himself and a combination of all those things. No matter how you look at it though, LeBron has long since surpassed him. Maccants backed himself into a corner with the whole talent trumps all stupidity and that's exactly why he lost the argument. I get that you're all Kobe Stans but he's not in the GOAT debate, he's in the top 10 debate and you could make an argument for top 5, but that's as far as it goes.
Yall sound crazy, Gil ain’t wrong and he wasn’t back peddling. That nigga McCants said people that played don’t use stats for the goat debate then turn right around and said Kobe over Jordan because he passed him in scoring all time… nigga what!!?🤣🤣 Gil spent most of his time trying to explain that the goat debate can only be debated between #1 or #2 but whoever you got at 3, unless they are still active , does not have a debate to be the goat. Its not hard to understand
Wrong. Kobe wasn’t gifted talents like Vince/MJ/Lebron. His argument is that Kobe is most skilled ever and that Lebron is only in the convo cause of the scoring list but Kobe already passed MJ on scoring list
Bruh we all know Kobe didn't get MVPs cause of that Colorado case, he became the black sheep of the NBA back then... He never had the team at his prime that MJ or Lebron had to go deep in the playoffs, he only needed Gasol after some years.... Before that he had only Shaq while Kobe was still young and he was slowly entering his prime, after that he had fuckin Kwame Brown and Smash Parker, what we talkin about...@@DuaneHTX
The fact that Kobe made Mike’s moves his own in order to DOMINATE, means Mike’s, I repeat MIKE’s game/moves transcended the 90s in to @ least 2 more decades after his retirement. Which means Mike’s GOAT
yeah... not debunking Mike as the GOAT. I'm just clarifying that Kobe used more moves than just Mike's moves... at the time, Mike was the only one that could do what he was doing. But Kobe studied other greats and incorporated their skillset into his shooting/scoring progression. The moves in themselves aren't what make Mike the GOAT...it was the IQ and the heart.... That's why I think Kobe is never getting surplanted by James as #2. James had flashes of brilliance where he had the moves or the IQ or the heart... He never played with all 3 consistently to be considered a GOAT. I've never looked at Kobe and said to myself: "this guy gave up... he's not trying to win the game... he didn't show up... he wasn't prepared" Even when he took a massive 'L'..against the Celtics, he nodded his head at the crowd and said "ok...I'm coming back next year... keep that same energy"... Lebron woulda walked off the court with a towel on his head and not do any interviews... I just don't know why we're having these conversations...
So, the panel claims that the term “Greatest Of All Time” started in the 1990s. Did we forget that one boxer named Mohammad Ali; who famously declared on nationwide television…….”I’m the greatest of all time!!”??? It wasn’t LL Cool J or some woman.
Honestly in the NBA I didn't really here that term being used so much until LeBron joined the league. That's when I also noticed the ring chasing started and all the talk about players not being great because they didn't win a title. When I see players ranked above Charles Barkley simply for not having a ring it's beyond ridiculous. Barkley was second only to Jordan at that time but gets disrespected because Jordan was so great, especially in the Finals.
Kobe is the greatest two way basketball player I've ever seen. Skill-set wise, player to player, basketball dynamics, fluidity and the way they handled the ball and brought out "the dawg". To me Kobe gets the nod ahead of MJ. By just a hair. I've watched a lot of basketball.
Only player in nba history with 30k points and 12 all defensive teams I think that stat backs up him being the best two way. And 40 game winners for his career so also clutch like really clutch
@@joshuaaskew5598Mj wasn’t doing spin pivot from 3 with two defenders on him nor coming down pulling up from the logo. Stop acting like Mj didn’t say he took dr j game
but SAS said what he said about kobe while kobe was alive he didn't change his rap AT ALL. You just don't like it, and that's ok. The whole convo is all emotion anyways.
That's not the point Stephen A said Allen Iverson was wrong for having Kobe #2.. so what makes his opinion greater than AI for having kobe at 2 everyone has different criteria and saying someone opinion is wrong just because it doesn't line up with theirs and it's just a narrative that's bs.
You're speaking a whole lotta lies. You're lucky RUclips can't let people comment pictures because SAS had Kobe in his list as top 2, while Bron was 4. When Kobe was alive. His list was, Mj, Kobe, Tim, Bron and Magic. Look it up.
Stephen did not say that to Kobe the way he said it afterwards. Stephen A is only giving his opinion which is not facts. People can easily destroy how LeBron played in his career when it really mattered. You can do that with any player. Jason Whitlock exposed Stephen A for making up things in his own book. I don't even care for Whitlock but he exposed Stephen A for lies about his basketball career. Stephen A just be talking. He's starting to get attacked more for his hypocrisy
I can see Gil would be an exhausting man to have a relationship with. He can’t admit to any error or faulty logic. His argument was all over the place and he knew it. He talked himself nearly into a seizure. All Gil did was lean on stats but kept swearing that numbers don’t determine GOAT status. A mess!
I disagree, I saw where he was coming from they just weren't understanding his point. If LeBron passed Kobe as 2, then Kobe is out of the GOAT convo because LeBron passed him and is still playing, i.e. still building his resume. Think of a 3 pt shootout. Top guy made 18, other guy made 14. You hit 15 and you still got some balls on the rack. Dude that scored 14 is out because there is no way your score will decrease while you chase 18. Thats what Gil was trying to say -- if you have Kobe at 3 then he is out the convo.
Pick your lane! If your lane is the goat debate, then you have to combine stats, talent, and the whole body. Gilbert wants to talk about the GOAT, but then doesn't want to look at the whole picture. Like, what? When talking about the great players in any sport there is one thing more important than stats or talent... Being clutch. When it matters most, do they rise or fold. Gilbert has to stand on stats. Anyone putting LeBron in the GOAT debate has to ignore the whole picture. Cuz yeah, you look at the whole picture, and LeBron is not top 5, never past Magic or Bird, let alone Kobe. Like, what? LeBron is anti clutch. If Kobe and LeBron played at the same time, and the whole time Kobe was the best on earth, how do we even bring up Lebron? How'd LeBron do in the Olympics without Kobe?
Stephen a was acting like it’s disrespectful to have Kobe in the convo tho lol like Kobe wasn’t up there ….acting like iverson was super wrong for his opinion was disrespectful to Kobe game
@@sumnahlennon5449 they all mccants they jus fuccn talkn with no common sense behind there words look at the shirt he got on he really jus want attention an he got it so he finna act out what stephen a said he has always said when kobe was alive never heard mccants ass say shi now kobe dead he standing on buisness
@@deeswagg21No. Stephen A Smith said that this is merely a debate show so he has to argue. Mccants said anyone who places Lebron above KD is a fake fan. And more recently, he went on the show to say Kobe has always been better than MJ. Mccants just keeps saying things
he had no skill mccants,without shaq no rings without pau gasol no rings,pissed at d howard because he couldn't help him win but d howard won with lebron in 2020,but kobe agent broke the team up after that
This how good Kobe was. He wasn’t the fastest, strongest or had the best talent and still was conquering games as the best player on the floor. Dude was a hyper star among super stars!
Kobe was an elite athlete bruh dude was crazy quick and explosive in his younger days. He’s an all timer cause he didn’t rely on that athleticism he worked crazy hard to make himself crazy skilled.
@@edwardbarrera2749Kobe never fast but was explosive at some point, but he is not top tier athletic after 2004. He worked every single detail to beat defenders and team defence
@@edwardbarrera2749elite, yes but in the NBA everyone is Elite athletically so in comparison Kobe was simply an average build for a Shooting Guard. He didn’t stand out on paper. Kobe simply outworked everyone and out studied everyone.
Why do y’all like to act like Kobe didn’t have god given talent? His work ethic was super crazy yes. But he did make the jump from high school to the NBA lol that’s gotta mean something
The Redeem Team gold Medal game against Spain is what proved to me that Kobe is the only Goat from this Era. He single handedly took the ending of that game over and LeBron could only watch. He would have choked and got that Bronze without Bean. GOAT. Rip, Mamba
Boy you know damn well you aint seen that game. You just watched a fuckin netflix documentary. Go watch the game on RUclips. D wade was the dude in that finals. Lebron hadnt hit his prime. Kobe very CLEARLY in his prime and he STILL wasnt the best on the court. Thats what young retards like you cant remember. For YEARS during Kobes time guys like Shaq, Duncan, Manu, Wade and Lebron were ranked higher than him. Dude died and now you got guys forgetting that FACT. You guys are so fuckin retarded 😂
@@Yakuza12a yes I agree but he still have championships, once you win multiple the rest is bullshit. 90s were crowning MJ for winning 3 rings ahead of Magic Kareem and Bird. And he equal or less championships by that time .
As good as GA was as a player his history of the game is all wrong. Jordan was not the greatest of all time in ’89. Because bird,kareem,and magic were still not only playing,but playing at an all time great level. Now in the 90’s jordan was the best,most complete player,but wasn’t the most dominate every yr. You had karl malone,you had hakeem,grant hill,charles barkley etc. So when kobe came in (97) most of those guys were still playing at a high level jordan, malone,hakeem and grant hill. So he was never considered a top 2 player of all time.but by his 4th or 5th yr he was in fact up in the conversation as the best overall player of his era. People forget kb24 was a bench player by default his first 2 seasons. So his era didn’t officially start until his 3rd or 4th yr. so who did he push out? All of those guys mentioned from the beginning of the era before who were no longer playing and collecting stats.The only players from the era before was grant hill (94-95) who because of injury by the late 00’s was no longer the same player and Karl Malone (85-86). See people don’t want to remember that part of kobe’s greatness ,which is who was supposed to be NEXT UP, but never took the title from him. Guys such as a T-mac or a Vince Carter. Those guys although talented ,didn’t have the longevity. But lets look at it. The media didn’t want him mentioned with the greats from the beginning. This is why every yr after becoming a FULL-TIME starter on the scene he kept going up with or without Shaq (15 seasons of 20 or more ppg). This is what players like mccants are talking about when saying f*ck the stats…we’re talking about overall skill,talent,game and ability. Because when they mention stats Kobe haters NEVER wanna mention 30k points,7k reb,and 6k ass at the time of retirement the ONLY guard in HISTORY to accomplish this !! KB24 dominated not only an era but his position for yrs while getting treated like the 13th man on the bench. Don’t believe us? Go watch the countless yrs were ESPN had the 50 or 100 best players playing list and had kb24 ranked 93rd best ,25th best and on and on. Espn and the media hated kb24 for yrs and through it all still dominated and won chips. #wegone
Mccants was actually right. Gil has a tendency to move the goalposts mid conversation because he hates to be wrong or not be the smartest guy in the room. He literally moved the goalposts multiple times in his first 5 minutes of talking.
@@ksisniipez you dumb AF 🤣🤣🤣🤣 to be in the GOAT discussion you have to have rings accolades accomplishments etc... now, within that group, MJ and Kobe were the top 2 players in terms of skill and the X factor... both of them are already winners you noob... where are KDs rings?? where are Kyrie's rings?? where are their Finals MVPs regular seasons MVPs you fool
A lot of disrespect when Kobe was here and a lot of fake love when he’s gone. I’ll leave that there. RIP Bean 💜💛
Facts
Kobe Bryant the dude after basketball was an awesome man. Kobe Bryant the player on the floor was an absolute killer. But Kobe Bryant the dude while he was a laker (at least in the middle of his career) was psycopathic in his expectations of teammates and was legitimately dealing with some legal stuff that wasnt create. You can appreciate his talent and be sad that he's gone and still be realistic about who he was when he was actually here.
Real talk
A lot of disrespect to lebron also
Yup that’s the truth
You can’t have a logical conversation with someone when emotion overrides the thought process.
Did you watch SAS
SAS was just speaking factually and Mccants is acting like a baby about it lol, it’s like he can’t accept that Kobe just isn’t a top 2 player of all time
@@Cheezkrispies131sas was speaking facts? this whole convo is subjective…who tf is Stephen a to act like iverson opinion is completely invalid 😂 That’s ur opinion he isn’t the greatest but acting like it’s just disrespectful is disrespectful
@@deeswagg21Steph was just debating Iverson the same way he debates Shannon (who he respects.) He didnt insult their actual character.
SAS and Shannon go back and forth every day on this topic. They respect each other.
@@sumnahlennon5449stop replying to idiots I had to learn that lesson myself
“did you just bring Drake into the conversation with Michael Jackson” 😭💔, that reaction was hilarious 🤣
K Mart said it best based on what he said he heard MJ say, I'll never say I'm the best because all the guys who came before me that I didn’t get to play against. Which is respectful to those that came before you whose shoulders you stand upon.
Respect for this man speaking up for KOBE… we appreciate you bro! 🫡
respect but my dude with the Crown on a big point they all did and I don't even care about it to be honest
Agreed! Out of all the dumb takes that comes out of his mouth, he really spoke some good stuff here.
Watching Kobe, Wade, Melo, Bron all play together at tyw Olympics told me everything. Kobe took it on his back and closed it out.
He didn’t tho 🤷🏿♂️
@@teejaythomas4479all the players said it themselves you could find it urself 🤷🏽♂️
@@teejaythomas4479 who did then
@@teejaythomas4479he did tho… he just did it with his mind tho not with stats. He was clutch when they needed him tho but he was the leader of that squad.
I mean the 2008 Olympics, Wade was the best out of them all though
I feel blessed to have had the privilege of watching Kobe Bean Bryant play the game at a legendary level.
RIP 🐐
Riposa in pace Kobe, il grande Kobe
He said what everyone is thinking everytime we see a dumb SAS or ESPN analyst discredit Kobe’s legacy.
Just like you should be blessed to watch lebron James. What’s your point
Not the goat but I feel you
@@jcvelez915 Nobody is talking about him right now, plus many don't like watching his ugly nonskilled game besides casuals.
GOAT debates are good for fans to argue about over a beer. Other than that, it is an honor just to be in the GOAT conversation.
So you think you have experienced being in the GOAT debate? U delusional as hell.
Facts..they not saying anything negative about Kobe..they talking bout on the court not off the court..man I can’t believe Mccannots went to the University of North Carolina
I really respect what K-Mart said about how players from previous generations just automatically get casted aside for goat comparisons. U can say the game was in its early stages but sometimes u can wonder those players would be in the modern era with all of today’s resources at their disposal
Only Gen z kids discredit them and call them plumbers. Real hoop fans appreciate all eras
Nah wondering what they would be like today is pointless. That person doesn’t exist. We judge them on how good the actually were. And way more people overrate older players and put them in the GOAT convo when they really shouldn’t be. Like bill Russell.
??? Ain't nobody calling the greats a bunch plumbers, we calls their competition plumbers. The greats in the 70s, 80s and 90s were the people with talents that exceeded their generations.@@sukhsidhu6824
@masongreen1371 What a contradictory comment, lol. You judge them against their peers in their era. If they dominated their era, how can they be overrated.
@@sukhsidhu6824most underrated comment on RUclips...
KMart blowing smoke rings while McCants pleads to Gil is next level funny.
You already know the faces he would like to make
LMAO exactllly Kmart lowkey LOL'd when they was talkling about Kobe and Micheal sexy girlls and llebron a ugly one LLMAO
I just laughed at that 😂
Maybe I'm the odd man out, but it's pointless to compare greats. I'm too busy admiring the greatness of these legends. Grown ass men get into their feelings simply because someone doesn't agree with what they feel...
💯
Agreed. Most of these guys never played against each other in their prime. Some guys never played each other at all. Just give respect to the greats.
Agreed
You’re right. Still fun barber shop talk tho
@@rdgpats no doubt but these sensitive ass people going back and forth is hilarious
On an Olympic team with Bron, Wade, Carmelo and Bosh in their primes
They all differed to Kobe
RIP Goat
End of story..
He didn't lead the team in scoring
Bro kobe was all their elber by years if they all the same age they not deferring to kobe. Ya just gone ignore all the external factors. We talking bout a bron who just won their first chip. Clearly the Nigga who been playing 15+ with 5 rings would be the leader
That was baby Bron 🤷🏿♂️
Mccants is slow
gil’s face when mccants talk is pure comedy
That dude speaks like a black female. What man say "that's my mans" about another man?
Yes a priceless look of confusion.
CAUSE IF U PAY CLOSE ATTENTION TO WHEN GILS SPEAKS ABOUT KOBE YOU'LL BEGIN TO SEE THE ACTUAL HATE HE HAS FOR THE MAMBA..TALKING THAT SHT ABOUT DROPPING 45,50 ON KOBE BUT NEVER HAD THE NUTS TO GUARD HIM...AND WE ALL KNOW KOBE IS GONNA GUARD THE OTHER TEAMS BEST GUARDS WEATHER HE'S INJURED AND STILL PLAYING OR ITS A BACK TO BACK NIGHT OR WHATEVER !!!!... HE'S COMING FOR SMOKE OFF TOP!!!!
cuz she recognizes the idiocy
He's the shows Kendrick Perkins.
Kobe's influence and impact on elevating the skill level of the NBA is never mentioned.
They never talk about that
no foreal. without kobe, there wouldnt be tatum, kyrie, kawhi, demar, lavine, soo many players man. there’s a saying that he is “your favorite player’s favorite player”. he was the one that got me into basketball and probably y’all too and countless others. even some lesser name players have kobe as their favorite like will barton, and rondae hollis jefferson, who we saw put up a crazy kobe-like performance in fiba
100 pure 📠
😂 it's mention too much
@@immafatazn all facts. Kobe elevated the league a lot. MJ Kobe and curry is the most influential
This conversation was hilarious 😂😂😂😂😂 Kobe would be so proud watching this debate 🥲
Kobe knew the history of the game. He wouldn't waste one minute watching this guesswork.
Nah he’d be embarrassed at how much of an idiot McCants is when using his name. 🤣
@@penkima4923facts
I doubt it ..
Kobe would tell these guys to get in the gym. And stop bitching
Kenyon keeps ALL these conversations on planet earth.😂😂💯🤷🏾♂️
What always gets forgotten in the GOAT debate is that "Greatest of all time" means it is a comparison of greatness. Every player mentioned is acknowledged to be great. There are many players who have had great careers. The NBA celebrated their 75 list, and each of them were proud of that accomplishment. The main problem is there can only be one "Greatest of all time", but it definitely doesn’t mean a player is disrespected for being second or third.
There’s no such thing as a GOAT.
@@bananainthetailpipe it's all for entertainment purposes and these people take it religiously
@@SuperVario64 facts these people come up with all these reasons on y so and so is the goat and y so and so is number 6 and number 25 like lmao chill.
Yep, the modern media and content creators treat the “goat” like how DBZ treats super saiyans😂
Your right there is no GOAT debate because it’s MJ and it’s not close to argue anything other is foolish. MJ was being called the best ever before he even won a championship/ after the 1st 3Peat it was just a fact he was the best ever Bobby Knight said he was the best basketball player ever in 1984 before he played a NBA game
That was a good debate. Coming from actual players that played with him, it’s respected.
best comment
Gilbert saying “that’s one person” then not applying it to himself is hilarious
Because most people share Gil's opinion and not Kenyon's. You ask 95% of people this question and its Jordan or James with whoever as third. Kenyon not wrong for his opinion but he's in the minority, there is a debate about #1 and he just doesn't want to participate.
Prime example of circular conversation
Moving the goalpost to get his way, is Gil's modus operandi🤷🏿♂️
@@NotEnoughHobbies So if the majority says something, that means it's automatically true🤨? Come on, now😒...
@@wesmyone9562 There is no true or false because you're dealing with human players and human critics, both from different eras of basketball. Kenyon is right about that. But there is consensus. You can say "given these arbitrary criteria, x person is best" and Kenyon/Rashad are using criteria that most people don't use so their opinion is not valid. I think that's Gil's point. They working on completely different criteria.
Kobe was like the Last Player who upgraded his game year after year...
Huh ?? 🤣🤣🤣🤣
What?
Maaaan stop lmao, yall Kobe dickeaters just be chatting 😂😂😂
Lies
Agree…
I 1000% agree with Kenyon Martin here. It’s not about stats, or rebounds, assists or points, it’s about who was the man who carried the weight of the entire league on his shoulders! At the end of the day that’s MJ, Kobe, and LeBron - period!
what about bird magic, cousy russell lmao
@bretb9206 Bird and Magic needed each other. Mj ran the 90's, kobe was the most recognizable nba player from 2000 to 2009, and Lebron was already almost equal to kobe in that regard by 2008 and now he's the most talked about NBA superstar, period.
@@bretb9206Learn some basketball history my guy lmao
you mostly right... but stats also tell the story... mj, kobe, and lebron all have stats that backup there play
Facts !
Only thing i hate about it is media was scared to speak Kobe name when he was alive so i gotta respect mccants opinion cause Kobe would’ve been making them calls
how is disrespectful to his family and legacy by not having him top 2?
Nothing iswrong with not havin him top two. Problem is when people make it seem like it’s disrespectful for him to be even in that conversation when there was a period he was 100% in it.
He's not including the family bruh. Look at their skills and how they played. Even players would say kobe is better than lebron.
@@winteriscoming5081just because you play sexier don’t make you better clown 🤡 stone cold wasn’t the prettiest wrestler he still the greatest rice wasn’t the sexiest receiver he still the best ever you a joke lebron better face it clown 🤡
@@winteriscoming5081 correction: One handful of players
Because it’s not true . He’s tied wherever Jordan is
Kudos to Kenyon Martin for the gentrification reference, perfect analogy. Maybe he did go to class once in awhile. Lol
It is pretty weird that people say Kobe is the next best thing after Micheal, but still put him 5 or 6 in their top 10s
It’s not tho, because people who say it do so in a way to make it seem like he’s closest period when really it’s closest in style and skillset. He’s not closest in impact, statistics, accolades, add those and he’s closer to 10th than 2nd
It’s just hate man there’s no way in gods green earth a man whose played with every all star on the 2010 eastern all star team and is 4-10 in team finals , there’s no way you can have the biggest melt down in history and still call yourself the goat , lebron has all the longevity awards that’s cool but when it came down to it Kobe did the best with way worse than lebron most lebron fans are stat junkies
@@iamjoshualanier LMFAO
Do you know how many seasons Kobe had a teammate make All-NBA? 14
LeBron? 4 😂
The help isn’t close
They're not saying closest as in ranking, they mean play style. But your overall ranking has be a mix of your abilities showcased and your achievements. It's not just one thing. And those ppl that rank kobe 5 or 6 most likely think there are 4 to 5 players who have a better resume mixed with ability
Play styles he’s the next Michael Jordan period! No ifs ands or buts about it. But overall stats, MVPs, finals MVPs, impact, he’s not the next MJ.
Gil came in saying sports analyst use stats and players don’t. But he is using stats to argue against Kobe being in the top 2. It’s a contradiction that they were trying to point out but Gil just couldn’t grasp that lol
Accolades are NOT stats.
Gil just doesn't like Kobe period!
Gil be talking stupid.
He refused to admit that he was doing it. He argues a lot like immature women do. He gets louder, the more wrong he is 😂
Gil brain don't work correctly
Mccants, we love you. For loving Kobe, thanks for stepping up my man!
Kobe overrated
And likes to impose himself illegally on women
Get off your knees
@@godlyform974 clown 🤡 that would be LeBron, Because he put himself in the conversation
@@Johnwilliams11047 he was expected to be in the conversation since he was a teenager the same can’t be said about overrated dead bean
Listening to Gil is like being inside of a HEADACHE 💥
😂😂 I swear
@@ashian23x46
...and I can't...
😅😅😅
Kobe did everything with just the 2 steps rule.
Imagine if he could’ve done the 4 steps they do now.
Underrated take.
You ain't lying
Right he didn't travel to get his points
4? They run like rugby from the 3 point line to dunk it and get sent to the free throw line 😆
LeBron is 16-4 against Kobe with the 2 steps rule.
Kenyon Martin one of my fav NBA players. I love the way he breaks down his way of the greatest. Should be looked that way. Generations are different and rules change
ruclips.net/video/KFZGrJLeWEw/видео.htmlsi=uR2vVJb5JQIpVTce. this your goat era.. they would get destroyed in todays game
Actually Muhammad Ali coined the rearm
“Greatest of all time” he used to say it in the ring. “I’m the greatest of all times” go check y’all facts that was way before 1990
THANK YOU ! Idk if they didn’t mention that cause they were specifically talking about the acronym G.O.A.T but the term it’s self definitely was created by Ali
Love your words Rashad #STANDONBUSINESSBRO!!
LMFAOO Kenyon Martin blowing O’s
lmaoooo
G.O.A.Ts of each decade….
1960s: Russell
1970s: Kareem
1980s: Magic & Bird
1990s: MJ
2000s: Kobe
2010s: Lebron
How is Kobe above duncan?
How is lebron above Kawhi. Ok bud
@@moncler5691never talk sports again
Naw 2010’s is curry my G with KD being the best scorer and Lebron having the most media coverage 💯
@@moncler5691lmao did u watch the game last night
Gil: “we as players don’t care about stats, because we played”
Also Gil: “He has to pass his resume”
Rashad 7 times: “isn’t resume stats?”
Gil: “Resume!”
🤣🤣🤣
Isnt resume awards and chips?
Yea if you were the youngest nba player to play in the playoffs for example, thats part of yo resume, but thats not a statistic
Gil couldn't help himself, his back was against the wall, so he moved thr goalpost🤦🏿♂️...
He answered this. He said Kobe would be #1 and TMac would be up there if we were just going off skill.
What differentiates Kobe and T Mac is resume. If T Mac had Kobe’s resume. We would say T Mac was greater
Are yall not listening. He also stated that Kobe didn’t get to finish his resume due to injuries
Kobe overrated
Shad thank you whole heartedly THANK YOU
He literally said nothing 😂 Kobe is not better than Lebron literally every stat put him in front . You guys just hate Lebron
I'm over here dying 🤣 trying to count how many times Gil moved that goal post
I make the same argument Rashid as well if its not about rings then what we talking so then I say if rolls was reversed who the goat Give Lebron the rings and then Kobe the stats who the goat and the goal keep getting pushed
He always does
You caught that too, right? That was crazy, fo real🤦🏿♂️
I feel like mccants was the one moving the goalpost
Gil and K mart makes the most sense. Gil is saying it’s a mix of both of stats and skills
Mvcants is just going off skill. But then the rest of his players contradicts his logic
This is probably mccants best take and ppl still hate 😭 there is no goat , there’s amazing players that carried the game we love . The fact we try to pick and choose one person for a game that has 30 team and over 75 years is sad . Big ups to the greats and RIP KOBE
Your comment should have been highlighted
Lmao
Facts!
Kobe was great but he aint in the goat debate
It just game ever thing fix
Realest words they ever spoke. Kobe was that guy. Point blank period!
Still not top 3
@@KeepItReal213dead Kobe is in the goat convo let some people tell it
That’s a real convo players have Kobe over Lebron but fans and media have Lebron over Kobe…
@@sipmadeezy_p2819 you can watch plenty of past players say lebron is better. Mfs confuse they favorite with who's better .
@@sipmadeezy_p2819your smoking crack if you think kobe is better than lebron and its not close
There's been some times I watched the show and wasn't feeling what McCants was or wasn't saying...BUT I LOVE THIS DUDE..NO HOMO. HE TRULY STANDS ON BUSINESS AND SAYS WHAT HE MEANS AND MEANS WHAT HE SAYS!
Kobe Stop playing basketball when he tore his Achilles, that’s mind- boggling to think that’s when his game slowed down after playing damn near 2 decades. That man was a f*king machine literally the definition of that word, put some respect on that man’s name god rest his soul 🙌🏾🐍 🐍🐍🐍
You and McCants cut the crap everybody respects Kobe. 🤦🏽♂️🤔
@@GunninRebel55Stop trolling
@@GunninRebel55no they don't
His name is God not god.
Doesn't mean there can't be negative things said about him. He was good at basketball but from all accounts wasn't a very good person, but I mean I have never known a rapist be a good person either so.
Kenyon Martin is my spirit animal... Dude, blowing smoke rings at work...😂😂😂
Mccants started off making sense then went all the way left 😂
yea he did lol
As usual when the testosterone comes thru the logic exits the building 😅
Nah he made all.the sense
Lol he definitely let Gil move the goal post. He had a valid point in the beginning
@@winstonwinston2703all Gil was saying is if it’s already determined it’s Lebron and Jordan at the top 2, nobody is gonna mention the 3rd in the goat debate.. which is obvious lmao.
In the early 1970,s Kareem Jabber, late 1970,s Dr. J, early to mid 1980's Larry Bird, late 1980,s magic Johnson and 1990,s Mike Jordan.
People don't remember that Kenyon didn't feel comfortable speaking because of his speech impediment (stuttering) and he was the most eloquent in making his point
With respect to Kobe, being deceased doesn't exit you from basketball conversations. That's like saying "Ok, Bill Russell is dead we don't need to bring him up again in these conversations."
Kobe bron and MJ are definitely the 3 best of all time. No order.
@@ricardoalvarez8415💯💯💯
@@ricardoalvarez8415the fact that you feel that way disproves Gils whole point. He’s tryna make it seem like the conversation can’t consist of 3 people, when a lot of people have the conversation and bring up 3 people or even more
@@ricardoalvarez8415Shaq, Tim Duncan, Kareem and Magic are better🤷🏾♂️. I swear yall only put
Kobe in the top three like yall are more than ever before because he died
Kenyon played from 2000 to 2015 he said what he said
Gill Hilarious " so when your 3rd and 4th you aren't in the conversation anymore hahahah
KMart over there blowing O’s while they going at it is funny af 😂😂😂😂
😂 Kenyon just chilling loving the convo
The problem with Gilbert’s argument is that it only works if EVERYBODY has the same top two players, which we know isn’t the case. There are people who have Kareem over Mike, there are people with Wilt over Kareem, there are people with Kobe over LeBron….it goes on and on. And Gilbert said everybody can have their opinion but he would have to ignore all of those other opinions for his argument to work.
Kobe at no time was considered to be able to be the goat while playing… Wilt Kareem MJ LBJ were.
That’s the problem with the GOAT debate period. It’s just subjective opinions and ppl will have their choices.
@@memcrew1 yea and it makes it easy to weed out the low iq mouth breathers that are only fans that haven't played. its between bron and mj. MJ had a movie like type career to summarize it and bron is the best floor general of all time with the scoring to back it up. Nobody in history will be to able to carry a team the way bron carried those cavs ever again.
@jamarpyatt4303 but who was being asked? Are you taking that opinion from "journalists" or players?? Gilbert just literally said Kobe is the best player he's ever seen play, but somehow, he can't be in Gilbert's goat debate. That don't make sense. And Gilbert's watched and played against LeBron and Mike.
Before Kobe passed. There wasn't much of a greatest debate. We accepted that Kobe was possibly #2. Every one seemed OK with that. What happened is Lebron went straight to the top being compared against Jordan. That's why Kobe is dismissed. He wasn't debated against Jordan.
Realistically if you did a Top five based on pure talent vs a list based on accomplishments and status, you'd have two completely different lists. The only way to have a definitive list is too align both.
That’s basically what Gil is saying mccants just don’t want to concede that talent alone doesn’t make you the goat. If that’s the case it’s been more players that were more talented than kobe hell Kevin Durant might be the most talented player I’ve ever seen from the offensive standpoint and has basically the same resume as kobe post Shaq but isn’t in the goat discussion. If you’re going to use the goat debate you need metrics to determine that. If they say who their personal goat is it’s subjective and anything could be used.
There are way to manyvfactors that cause a rise or dip in stats. Thats obvious. No player paths are the same. Some drafted to lesser teams some to stronger teams. Some have injuries. Some stick it out with 1 team. You can only go off of all around skill. Not the numbers but ability to use several skills. Defense and offense. Left hand and right hand, boxing out, footwork, those things. maybe can kinda factor have at least 2 or 3 championships becuse winning on the largest stage matters.
@@edreddinghe does not have the same resume as Kobe. Kobe has a slam dunk champion, 4x All Star MVP, 5 rings, 2x finals MVP, 18x ALL NBA (11x all NBA 1st team), 12x all defensive team (9x all defensive 1st team), 3rd with the most 50 point games, 3rd in most 40 point games, 2nd in the most 60 point games, 08-10 only player to score 600 or more points in the postseason, etc I really can keep on going they do not have the same resume only thing KD has over KD is more scoring titles and Kobe would’ve probably have more if he didn’t play with Shaq early in his career.
If we talking stats why would lebron be above Kobe ?? Because he’s played more games ? More playoff runs more game 7s more finals losses most all star teammates tying Larry bird (7) only great thing lebron has done tbh is his longevity lebron hasn’t even beat more 50+ winning teams in a playoffs than curry Kobe or Jordan why do you think he lost so many finals he wasn’t even the best player in the league he lost 3 times to the same team in the finals he was swept 3 times in a finals he’s led his teams to more finals losses than wins why the hell is he even in the goat convo ? Be realistic he’s switched teams joined up with great players in order to win has been gifted great players has been apart of the best teams assembled and have lost more than any other top 5 superstar in league history
@@princezay3608 he also has a higher career scoring average, average more Rebs per career, more assists, higher 2 and 3 pt %, two more finals mvps, 3 more league mvps, more career points, Rebs and assists by a substantial margin despite only playing 1 more season. Based on accolades magic clears kobe as well. So outside of saying purely I think kobe is the goat bc I think he was game was more visually pleasing and you liked his mentality which is purely subjective their isn’t a huge resume based argument for why he is the goat.
In other words mccants we seen it before son,you see kobe would call stephen A to tell him what to talk about,that will keep him relevant,MJ was ask that question who will he pick?MJ said dominant of the game it's lebron,rings it's kobe,because he has 5 lebron has 4,FACTS
Kobe ... Worked ... Then studied Jordan... Then new work field.... And Kobe kept changing evolving and upgrading....
But never got better as a shooter. 44.7% & 32.9%. Those are not "GOAT" numbers.
@@SDesWriteryeah he never shot 50% in a season. Just a chunk
@@SDesWritercountless travel throughout 21 yrs should be the Goat?
@user-lb3nk7ff7p Speaking facts, but Kobe is not 14th all time. If the argument is on Career success + peak, he's between 7-9 (Between Duncan, Kobe, Bird). Shaq was more dominant at his peak but Kobe had the greater career because Shaq fell off hard torwards 2nd half of his career. Shaq is either 10-12 (between Shaq, Hakeem, Curry). If the argument was purely on peak Shaq would easily be top 10.
@@Madman-en8db Sorry, you'll have to try again in English. Are you saying Kobe traveled too much? Compared to LeFlop? Really?
Big facts big dude am glad someone is taking up for the brother and speaking the truth
What’s the truth
I appreciate McCants being as passionate as he is, I’ve gone all in on emotion, had it works both ways for me good and bad, but I’ve never really regretted it.
My top five is Wilt, Russell, Michel, and Kobe also LeBron and check the NBA record book on Mr. Wilt just saying !!!!!!!!!
What Kenyon said is really on point for some respect 🫡
It was Kobe’s work ethic that I respect 💯. Nobody worked harder than him
That means Jordan was more talented because he didn’t have to work as hard.
@@sportsfan120577 you sound slow asf.
MJ was more athletic a bit better defender, Kobe was better 3 point shooter, better ball handler and had better footwork, because MJ was more talented athletically doesn't mean he was better overall, Kobe was the most skilled player ever even over Jordan.@@sportsfan120577
McCants knows nothing about work ethic. It’s krazy to call him your brother in blood when you lasted 5 season cuz you couldn’t knock off the goofy shit. Ayo Gil, I think McCants is a bigger bust than Kwame.
@@sportsfan120577that's true, so Kobe had to practice and work harder to achieve what Jordan did, and he only came up one chip shy of Jordan, and if they had beaten the Celtics in 2008 he would have gotten 2 3peats.
Gilbert is lost in his own dumb argument. Every time they started making valid points you could tell he was just trying to find a way to dispute it, he yelled out Drake😂😂😂
😂😂 had the nerve to put Drake in the convo with two of the best performers we've ever seen. This dude killed his own argument several times
I mean it makes sense though. Drake has surpassed Chris Brown as an artist but not MJ, who’s the clear #1
@@chearoyewun1186 Drake has only passed Chris statistically. Who's the best performer?
Threw the whole conversation off with that
Gilbert made no sense at ALL.
"Stat king, stat king, he cant help it"
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣☠️💀
Thank you Kenyon. Most concise and best way to put it
It's so true, all the players that played with Kobe hold him up waaay higher than the media because the stats don't represent what he could do on the court
Exactly! And unfortunately his stats went down after the Achilles. He has a true ppg of 27.9 for career before Achilles
Bro it's even the achilles, Kobe had like broken wrists fingers ankles and knees, he didnt care about stats like Lebron did..@@maxseed601
So that is the fukd up eye test, which is biased and subjective??!!!
@@maxseed601injuries is part of the game. If we raise Kobe’s ppg total we will have to do the same for everyone else. We will have to remove Jordans Wizards years. Duncan’s last year where he dealt with injuries. You can’t do that though
Stop the cap some of them talk high of him now since he passed. They all show fake love now
They literally called him "The Big Fundamental". If we're talking about skill why do we never talk about Tim Duncan? If you're being honest you can't say Duncan wasn't terrifying if he was playing against your team.
Duncan was a silent killer. Look up and see 30 and 15. You like when did that happen?
Gil is the master of talking in circles and hoping to confuse the other person or catch them in a stumble 😂😂😂
He know he be trolling 😂😂😂
True dude started the convo talking nba guys don't measure with stats and then does that 😂 wat a dumbshit😂😂
ong😂😂😂
He really said it wasn’t a goat before mike just approve his argument
Gil went to the same school as Murda Mook I see. Saying something while saying absolutely nothing 😂😂
Gilbert said it himself “Kobe is the best player I’ve ever seen”
Didn't play against Jordan with a Bulls jersey then, and against the Cavs Lebron that wasn't the young one who already banished him to hell in the Playoffs with his talk and mental game.
didnt he saw mj or bird lol
So if Lameo ball says the best player he’s ever seen is Lebron that makes Lebron the goat? If five years in the future Ja Morant says the best player he’s ever seen is Luka does that make Luka the goat now? This argument is extremely baseless. The literal only way for this argument to be logical is for an all time great to play every season of the nba from first nba season to now, and even then that doesn’t make the argument good
Gil Arenas says Lebron is #1, MJ is #3. Arenas doesnt have Kobe in his top 5.
@@sumnahlennon5449 Gil has a bug up his ass about Jordan. It has to do with how mediocre he was as a player while Jordan was still playing. The guy only broke 20 four times in his career. Jordan was over 30 his rookie season. Gil is a b'tch
My thing for Kobe 12 all defensive teams that means not only was he giving you 30 but than locking you up in the other end so yeah Kobe did it on both ends and was clutch in the end 💯
Not only should he have not gotten 12 but ..........yeah he shouldnt of got 12
@@erichvonmanstein6876he was the greatest defensive & offensive shooting guard pretty much his entire career name someone else if anything he should’ve had more lol. One way I got Kobe over Bron & 2nd all time is, even though it’s an opinion im comfortable if he went against any of the “goats” in the finals id take him winning everytime it could get ugly be he got the job fuckin done at all costs
Lebron had the chance to play Kobe in 09 but lost to Dwight Howard & Kobe went thru them like it was nothin & don’t act like the Lakers were stacked or anything, won back to back chips with no top 75 player 🏆
@@erichvonmanstein6876great response, really deep.
@@youwilin he couldnt of been "over his entire career" because he played when mike played. But lets say he was .......so. thats not what criteria for all defensive team is. Get off a dead mans d1©k
Main please Kobe always had 7 footers on his team,but you right lebron then MJ then Kobe or you can but Kobe before MJ
I thought this originally said "Gil Arenas apologizes to Stephen A" and I watched the whole thing and was utterly confused.
I agree with Kenyon Kobe gets skipped over because he caught a case. It’s the same reason he didn’t win more mvps . Media can’t talk about him because of that.
Only w media. Media doesn’t represent real basketball fans that’s why we gotta take it w a grain of salt
Facts
Facts.
McCants seem to not understand that a discussion about Kobe's basketball skills has nothing to do with his character.
I think y’all seem to not understand ppl dismiss him because of character and stuff lol …literally Martin said the same shit
@@deeswagg21 we dismissed him from the GOAT debate because he has ONE MVP!!!
@@deeswagg21those “people”you’re referring to are a very small vocal minority…globally speaking Kobe is beloved damn near everywhere especially in China
so Nash has a better goat case? stupid ass argument @@thedeezyshow
Man Kobe is extremely big outside USA, Lebron’s popularity and influence is only a tenth of Kobe’s. Lebron is definitely biggest domestically in USA after MJ though.
i love it when K Mart is chilling and making smoke rings ahahaha
I love how Kobe has ben represented lately..you can't hide the real too long
Facts
This is a GOAT level exercise in dragging an unnecessary debate! K-Mart was all of us in this instance. You guys keep going we over here enjoying the conversation 😂
I love the way KM made Gil look foolish with his own information!!!😂😂😂😂😂
When did he make him look foolish? KM started off foolish when he said LJ don’t have skills. You don’t get stats without skills. The more skills the better the stats.
@@DCNortheast202BullBoy false. There have been a ton a big guys and athletic guys with very little skill that got stats on pure physicality, while more skilled guys get lesser stats bc of their lesser physical gifts. Just plain wrong.
@@DCNortheast202BullBoy That’s A Lie Because LeBron Doesn’t Have Skills 😭
@@8dollars276 size is a skill, or else Kyrie would be the GOAT
@@linh811how tf is size a skill 🤣 I’ll give it to bron he’s skilled in his layup package & passing the ball but Kobe wins with overall skills in ways to score from anywhere, best footwork of all time, defense, scoring on double / triple teams so many things
Killed him with the Vince carter point 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Gilbert's not being able to admit when he's wrong is hilarious
Because he knows he’s lying but he need that Klutch sports check 😂😂
That's what makes him great!
i saw this comment before i watched it im like 6 mins in and Gil back peddling like a mf lol
What was he wrong about? He didn't articulate himself the best but his point was 100% accurate. Kobe isn't the most talented player to ever step on a basketball court, not even close if we're being honest. He also doesn't have the best stats or the most accomplishments. What puts him so high is the resume he built for himself and a combination of all those things. No matter how you look at it though, LeBron has long since surpassed him. Maccants backed himself into a corner with the whole talent trumps all stupidity and that's exactly why he lost the argument. I get that you're all Kobe Stans but he's not in the GOAT debate, he's in the top 10 debate and you could make an argument for top 5, but that's as far as it goes.
Yall sound crazy, Gil ain’t wrong and he wasn’t back peddling. That nigga McCants said people that played don’t use stats for the goat debate then turn right around and said Kobe over Jordan because he passed him in scoring all time… nigga what!!?🤣🤣 Gil spent most of his time trying to explain that the goat debate can only be debated between #1 or #2 but whoever you got at 3, unless they are still active , does not have a debate to be the goat. Its not hard to understand
It took 30 min for Rashad to realize he was arguing most talented, which is a separate conversation.
Wrong. Kobe wasn’t gifted talents like Vince/MJ/Lebron. His argument is that Kobe is most skilled ever and that Lebron is only in the convo cause of the scoring list but Kobe already passed MJ on scoring list
@@Jm3rv 4 MVPs, 4 Final MVPs, top 5 in assists and etc must be irrelevant. Only Lebron gets knocked for scoring 😂
Bruh we all know Kobe didn't get MVPs cause of that Colorado case, he became the black sheep of the NBA back then... He never had the team at his prime that MJ or Lebron had to go deep in the playoffs, he only needed Gasol after some years.... Before that he had only Shaq while Kobe was still young and he was slowly entering his prime, after that he had fuckin Kwame Brown and Smash Parker, what we talkin about...@@DuaneHTX
Cap. He knew that from the beginning. He's been saying Jordan and Kobe are by far the greatest ever.
The fact that Kobe made Mike’s moves his own in order to DOMINATE, means Mike’s, I repeat MIKE’s game/moves transcended the 90s in to @ least 2 more decades after his retirement. Which means Mike’s GOAT
Great take!!!
Facts
yeah... not debunking Mike as the GOAT. I'm just clarifying that Kobe used more moves than just Mike's moves... at the time, Mike was the only one that could do what he was doing. But Kobe studied other greats and incorporated their skillset into his shooting/scoring progression. The moves in themselves aren't what make Mike the GOAT...it was the IQ and the heart.... That's why I think Kobe is never getting surplanted by James as #2. James had flashes of brilliance where he had the moves or the IQ or the heart... He never played with all 3 consistently to be considered a GOAT. I've never looked at Kobe and said to myself: "this guy gave up... he's not trying to win the game... he didn't show up... he wasn't prepared"
Even when he took a massive 'L'..against the Celtics, he nodded his head at the crowd and said "ok...I'm coming back next year... keep that same energy"... Lebron woulda walked off the court with a towel on his head and not do any interviews... I just don't know why we're having these conversations...
Didn't Mike take some of Dr. J's moves though?
@@mckricks1 he took his dunking style and elevated it. Thats about it.
It was Muhammad Ali's wife that coined the term G.O.A.T. in 1992
Thank you Mccants, well said my brother
So, the panel claims that the term “Greatest Of All Time” started in the 1990s. Did we forget that one boxer named Mohammad Ali; who famously declared on nationwide television…….”I’m the greatest of all time!!”??? It wasn’t LL Cool J or some woman.
Honestly in the NBA I didn't really here that term being used so much until LeBron joined the league. That's when I also noticed the ring chasing started and all the talk about players not being great because they didn't win a title. When I see players ranked above Charles Barkley simply for not having a ring it's beyond ridiculous. Barkley was second only to Jordan at that time but gets disrespected because Jordan was so great, especially in the Finals.
2 things can be true..Ali started saying greatest of all time, but LL definitely started the term GOAT and broke it down to Greatest Of All Time.
The fact that they did all this talking about GOAT and never brought up Larry Bird’s name is very telling.
LMAO we talking basketball bro talking about boxing
@@freetoflyllcI’m sure the lady they said who started it wasn’t talking basketball
Kobe is the greatest two way basketball player I've ever seen. Skill-set wise, player to player, basketball dynamics, fluidity and the way they handled the ball and brought out "the dawg". To me Kobe gets the nod ahead of MJ. By just a hair. I've watched a lot of basketball.
Only player in nba history with 30k points and 12 all defensive teams I think that stat backs up him being the best two way. And 40 game winners for his career so also clutch like really clutch
Mimicked his game from MJ. Great Value version of his Airness.
@@joshuaaskew5598 hell no Kobe skill level is top dog
@@joshuaaskew5598Mj wasn’t doing spin pivot from 3 with two defenders on him nor coming down pulling up from the logo. Stop acting like Mj didn’t say he took dr j game
Oh. We doing that? Then it’s Hakeem. Easy🧠. ✌️
Kenyon Martin is probably the most well rounded thinker... A true throwback. Honest and a critical thinker.💯
but SAS said what he said about kobe while kobe was alive he didn't change his rap AT ALL. You just don't like it, and that's ok. The whole convo is all emotion anyways.
That's not the point Stephen A said Allen Iverson was wrong for having Kobe #2.. so what makes his opinion greater than AI for having kobe at 2 everyone has different criteria and saying someone opinion is wrong just because it doesn't line up with theirs and it's just a narrative that's bs.
You're speaking a whole lotta lies. You're lucky RUclips can't let people comment pictures because SAS had Kobe in his list as top 2, while Bron was 4. When Kobe was alive. His list was, Mj, Kobe, Tim, Bron and Magic. Look it up.
All emotions
Stephen did not say that to Kobe the way he said it afterwards. Stephen A is only giving his opinion which is not facts. People can easily destroy how LeBron played in his career when it really mattered. You can do that with any player. Jason Whitlock exposed Stephen A for making up things in his own book. I don't even care for Whitlock but he exposed Stephen A for lies about his basketball career. Stephen A just be talking. He's starting to get attacked more for his hypocrisy
@@OnlyHTMRK which is why I said the whole convo is all emotion.
I can see Gil would be an exhausting man to have a relationship with. He can’t admit to any error or faulty logic. His argument was all over the place and he knew it. He talked himself nearly into a seizure. All Gil did was lean on stats but kept swearing that numbers don’t determine GOAT status. A mess!
No McCants only talked about one stat not stats in totality
I disagree, I saw where he was coming from they just weren't understanding his point. If LeBron passed Kobe as 2, then Kobe is out of the GOAT convo because LeBron passed him and is still playing, i.e. still building his resume. Think of a 3 pt shootout. Top guy made 18, other guy made 14. You hit 15 and you still got some balls on the rack. Dude that scored 14 is out because there is no way your score will decrease while you chase 18. Thats what Gil was trying to say -- if you have Kobe at 3 then he is out the convo.
body of work not stats,he made all the sense in the world
Every time Kenyon Martin is in the Arena, I will watch it with interest. He is knowledgeable, funny and insightful. Love and respect him.
bro was casually smoking mid argument 🤣
Kenyon Martin thinks that Kyrie is better than Luka on the Mavs... dude's opinions are about as good as his career. TRASH
How many SUPERSTARS with RINGS HAS NEVER LOST A CHAMPIONSHIP? that’s the only thing that matters
Pick your lane! If your lane is the goat debate, then you have to combine stats, talent, and the whole body. Gilbert wants to talk about the GOAT, but then doesn't want to look at the whole picture. Like, what?
When talking about the great players in any sport there is one thing more important than stats or talent... Being clutch. When it matters most, do they rise or fold.
Gilbert has to stand on stats. Anyone putting LeBron in the GOAT debate has to ignore the whole picture.
Cuz yeah, you look at the whole picture, and LeBron is not top 5, never past Magic or Bird, let alone Kobe. Like, what? LeBron is anti clutch.
If Kobe and LeBron played at the same time, and the whole time Kobe was the best on earth, how do we even bring up Lebron? How'd LeBron do in the Olympics without Kobe?
Facts and they keep talking talent like all every NBA player isn't talented
He acting like Stephen A. Was attacking his character, saying he was a terrible person. He just ranking the guy.
Stephen a was acting like it’s disrespectful to have Kobe in the convo tho lol like Kobe wasn’t up there ….acting like iverson was super wrong for his opinion was disrespectful to Kobe game
Yea you saw what you wanted to see if that’s all you took from it
@@deeswagg21But Gil Arenas (aka this channel) does not even have Kobe in his top 5.
@@sumnahlennon5449 they all mccants they jus fuccn talkn with no common sense behind there words look at the shirt he got on he really jus want attention an he got it so he finna act out what stephen a said he has always said when kobe was alive never heard mccants ass say shi now kobe dead he standing on buisness
@@deeswagg21No. Stephen A Smith said that this is merely a debate show so he has to argue. Mccants said anyone who places Lebron above KD is a fake fan.
And more recently, he went on the show to say Kobe has always been better than MJ. Mccants just keeps saying things
It's been acknowledged by Jerry West, Shaquille O'Neal and even Magic Johnson-the Black Mamba is the greatest Los Angeles Laker of all time.
I legit be lost when McCants starts talking.
I hope you don't feel found when Gil talks.
McCants was cooking on a hibachi grill.
NOT STATS NOT TALENT, IT'S THE MENTALITY AND THE INFLUENCE OF THE GAME. PERIOD
It’s Iverson then!!
The McCants slander is absurd. No one can ever redeem themselves in this world and I really hate that.
hes great
ONG
Maccants....you won me over with ya kobe stand straight up💪🏿👑🙏🏿💯
Gilbert is the G.O.A.T of deflection 🤣
he had no skill mccants,without shaq no rings without pau gasol no rings,pissed at d howard because he couldn't help him win but d howard won with lebron in 2020,but kobe agent broke the team up after that
This how good Kobe was. He wasn’t the fastest, strongest or had the best talent and still was conquering games as the best player on the floor. Dude was a hyper star among super stars!
Kobe was an elite athlete bruh dude was crazy quick and explosive in his younger days. He’s an all timer cause he didn’t rely on that athleticism he worked crazy hard to make himself crazy skilled.
@@edwardbarrera2749 Go look at his combine
He was an above average athlete
Nick young is more athletic than Kobe bryant
@@edwardbarrera2749Kobe never fast but was explosive at some point, but he is not top tier athletic after 2004. He worked every single detail to beat defenders and team defence
@@edwardbarrera2749elite, yes but in the NBA everyone is Elite athletically so in comparison Kobe was simply an average build for a Shooting Guard. He didn’t stand out on paper. Kobe simply outworked everyone and out studied everyone.
Why do y’all like to act like Kobe didn’t have god given talent? His work ethic was super crazy yes. But he did make the jump from high school to the NBA lol that’s gotta mean something
The Redeem Team gold Medal game against Spain is what proved to me that Kobe is the only Goat from this Era.
He single handedly took the ending of that game over and LeBron could only watch. He would have choked and got that Bronze without Bean.
GOAT. Rip, Mamba
Tearing down another black man just to big up another one. Wow!… I feel you tho.
Boy you know damn well you aint seen that game. You just watched a fuckin netflix documentary. Go watch the game on RUclips. D wade was the dude in that finals. Lebron hadnt hit his prime. Kobe very CLEARLY in his prime and he STILL wasnt the best on the court. Thats what young retards like you cant remember. For YEARS during Kobes time guys like Shaq, Duncan, Manu, Wade and Lebron were ranked higher than him. Dude died and now you got guys forgetting that FACT. You guys are so fuckin retarded 😂
What the fxck! You mention Kobe without tearing LeBron or else DON'T!
What a stupid ass point ahaha.
16-6 vs Kobe's ass.
"Stats only matter when you win championships." - Michael Jordan
And LeBron never won championships?
@@SuperPyrate25won less than kobe 😂
@@Yakuza12a yes I agree but he still have championships, once you win multiple the rest is bullshit. 90s were crowning MJ for winning 3 rings ahead of Magic Kareem and Bird. And he equal or less championships by that time .
literally bron has more winning seasons than kobe. only one less championship
but still has more mvps and finals mvps😂@@Yakuza12a
I'm The 23rd like !.....On this MJ Qoute... nobody else better Like it lol
As good as GA was as a player his history of the game is all wrong. Jordan was not the greatest of all time in ’89. Because bird,kareem,and magic were still not only playing,but playing at an all time great level. Now in the 90’s jordan was the best,most complete player,but wasn’t the most dominate every yr. You had karl malone,you had hakeem,grant hill,charles barkley etc. So when kobe came in (97) most of those guys were still playing at a high level jordan, malone,hakeem and grant hill. So he was never considered a top 2 player of all time.but by his 4th or 5th yr he was in fact up in the conversation as the best overall player of his era. People forget kb24 was a bench player by default his first 2 seasons. So his era didn’t officially start until his 3rd or 4th yr. so who did he push out? All of those guys mentioned from the beginning of the era before who were no longer playing and collecting stats.The only players from the era before was grant hill (94-95) who because of injury by the late 00’s was no longer the same player and Karl Malone (85-86). See people don’t want to remember that part of kobe’s greatness ,which is who was supposed to be NEXT UP, but never took the title from him. Guys such as a T-mac or a Vince Carter. Those guys although talented ,didn’t have the longevity. But lets look at it. The media didn’t want him mentioned with the greats from the beginning. This is why every yr after becoming a FULL-TIME starter on the scene he kept going up with or without Shaq (15 seasons of 20 or more ppg). This is what players like mccants are talking about when saying f*ck the stats…we’re talking about overall skill,talent,game and ability. Because when they mention stats Kobe haters NEVER wanna mention 30k points,7k reb,and 6k ass at the time of retirement the ONLY guard in HISTORY to accomplish this !! KB24 dominated not only an era but his position for yrs while getting treated like the 13th man on the bench. Don’t believe us? Go watch the countless yrs were ESPN had the 50 or 100 best players playing list and had kb24 ranked 93rd best ,25th best and on and on. Espn and the media hated kb24 for yrs and through it all still dominated and won chips. #wegone
Mccants was actually right. Gil has a tendency to move the goalposts mid conversation because he hates to be wrong or not be the smartest guy in the room. He literally moved the goalposts multiple times in his first 5 minutes of talking.
Mccants is wrong he has Kobe top 5 based off skill 🤦♂️ if that’s the case just put KD & Kyrie in the top 5 above LeBron & Steph 🤦♂️
You caught that too, right? Rashad, and Kenyon were cooking, so Gil kept moving the goalpost. It was so annoying😑
@@ksisniipez you dumb AF 🤣🤣🤣🤣 to be in the GOAT discussion you have to have rings accolades accomplishments etc... now, within that group, MJ and Kobe were the top 2 players in terms of skill and the X factor... both of them are already winners you noob... where are KDs rings?? where are Kyrie's rings?? where are their Finals MVPs regular seasons MVPs you fool
@@ksisniipez🎯
@@ksisniipezkobe has 5 rings can't say the same for the other 2