Interestingly, the hellbat took 5 seconds to kill 25 lings, but the firebat took 8 seconds to kill the same amount. Hellbat dps is higher but the firebat's armor is just too high.
Also, Hellbats are bigger, which means more Zerglings can attack them at once and thus more damage (looked like 6 at at time could attack the firebat, while 8 could attack the hellbat). In most situations that wont be as much of a factor, since Hellbats are usually close together in a line protecting each other and either Siege Tanks or Thors from Zergling surrounds
Firebat damage all unit in contact with him while firing. Hellbat one shot zergling, but lack armor, is bigger and do not kill zergling hitting him from behind. The firebat is offensively less impressive, but he damage the units in front of him and in contact with him. if you look closely you will see he kill the zergling behind him while firing. So while the hell bat is more interesting when in a wall, the firebat will perform excellently even if they are surrounded.
Its always an odd thing with these. In a lot of these fights the results could be much different with even a little bit of micro from one sides or another. Which is fine, but then stalkers get perfect blink micro in every fight.
@@glephnir726 The blink micro is nowhere near perfect though. Perfect blink micro would be dodging projectiles every time, and never blinking more distance than necessary to reset targeting. These blink as soon as their shield break, and always blink the maximum distance away from the damaging entity, which results in a lot of lost DPS if the stalkers aren't in massive numbers.
Oh. Ohhhh. Let's go firebaaaats. EDIT: Hot daaaaamn. I didn't expect the Firebat to perform that well. It not only killed off the entire ling rush, it also survived with just shy of half health.
It's the 5 armor against 0/0 that's insane. They're literally doing 1 hp damage per hit, so the firebat can take 100 hits and the hellbat can only take 68 hits. Also, I think the hellbat is larger so more zergles can hit it at once. It looks 8 at a time for hellbat VS 6 at a time for firebat?
Really I thought the firebat was always that OP, that's the reason they replaced firebats with hellbats in ladder as well I think. In WOL and HOTS firebats were freaking insane.
as a combat unit, firebats are notably tougher since they are inherently armored, which is great in a scenario like this. so in a vacuum, firebats. problem is firebats required a tech lab, and have a gas requirement. hellbats don't have either of those drawbacks, though i think they do have to come from factories as a tradeoff. they also appear to hit slightly harder, since they were one-shotting zerglings, as opposed to a bunch of injured ones ringing the firebat
Firebats vs Hellbats is kind of a hard comparison. The existence of banes means Firebats will always be better against masses of swarm enemies. However, both units suffer from filling an extremely narrow niche, but hellbats can just turn into a car and drive away from that problem. So against Zerg swarms spesifically, Firebats are better. In an actual match where units need to be able to be consistently useful, Hellbats are better.
I'd love to see how Artanis' High Templar fare against regular ones. If I recall correctly, the way their storms work means the AI would be wasting it less.
The Plasma Surge upgrade does allow Psionic Storm casts to stack, and it allows restoration of shields to friendly units. The Direct Strike AI might benefit in some way with Artanis HTs (or campaign HTs, which are slightly different but have the same upgrade) over their versus counterparts.
I thought you would have added Nova Hellbat Rangers, Swann Hellbats, and HH Hellbats into the picture as well. And throw in Blaze since he is a firebat as well.
Firebat ftw! Roasting Zerglings and serving with pride since 1998. Holy moly Hydras actually won something. Amazing xD. Basic Protoss ground sucking as usual againt Terran bio. This was an easy 5/5 :)
In this kind of matchup, worse in every way than the hellbats. Hellions strength is in mobility, being fast enough to keep ahead of off-creep zerglings. These fights don't showcase that, they're just slugfests, which de-emphasizes mobility and rewards armor and HP.
It looks like a WoL campaign firebat against a ladder hellbat. Not sure if the test itself was wholly accurate because of this. I kinda want to see the same test, but between Raynor's Firebat and Swann's Hellbat. That said, I still personally like firebats a lot more.
Ok that was a bit unfair you compared a ladder hellbat vs. a Raynor Firebat that has a total armor of 6 so the lings would be doing minimum damage to it. It should've been a Swann hellbat.
Oh I just noticed something, the hellbats can't attack behind them, meanwhile the firebats can. If you pay attention at 0:35 the Firebat was firing at the lings in front but the 3 lings in the back got damaged too. Holy **** firebats are OP no wonder they got removed from ladder 😅.
Firebats should be available on the ladder - maybe instead of widow mines. Zergs would totally welcome the absence of mines and Terran would have reliable splash that doesn't automatically die to mass baneling a-move and also a splash that doesn't kill half of their own army 50% of the time.
Stalker+Zealot with micro (more expensive) loses to Marine+Marauder without micro (less expensive)? I knew barracks were stronger, but I didn't know it was THAT much
But then they'd blink away and the zealots still get shot when closing in. Marines kick the shit out of Zealots, marauders kick the shit out of stalkers. This was always going to be a Terran victory.
Firebats v hellbats, there’s one key difference that makes the hellbat way better: Firebats have the armored tag, hellbats don’t. That one small thing makes a MASSIVE difference.
I'd prefer some videos that are more focused... Like what if every match up here was about the firebat vs the hellbat? You could have faced them against zealots, or ultralisks or each other. We could see hydras fight HT in any other video, why'd it have to be on this one about the firebat and hellbat?
Which version of Hellbats are those? PvP, campaign, coop (Swann/Nova/H&H)? After transform, Hellcat would be able to transit the battlefield a lot quicker than Firebat.
This looks like the campaign firebat actually. The juggernaut plating upgrade was originally in the campaign and it only granted +2 armour without the +100 HP.
given one of my buddies constantly ragging on the firebat, i expected hellbat to come out ahead. the hellbat did appear to have better damage, but lacked the defenses to stand up to the zerglings once ringed. firebats are tough bastards. i think my buddies complaints boil down to firebats take a tech lab and gas. i had terrans winning vs zealots/stalkers. marauders are good vs armored, stalkers i don't think have any special damage. hellbats handled the zerglings, and took too many banelings for the vikings to be at risk of getting wiped. Ghosts v banshees i expected banshees to win, but had concerns about them overkilling units instead of spreading their damage correctly. it started happening later on, but didn't do enough to cause them difficulties early on. Hydralisks won as soon as they started ringing around, Storm good unit, but once the templar ran out of energy, they were screwed. that attack doesn't do enough damage to really buy them a fight if they don't have a major numbers advantage, which they never really did. the biggest advantage they ever had was +8 over the hydralisks. they took a lot out, to be fair. "they will fight and die bravely... but still... they will die"
I never understood the point of hellbats... is it because the longer range of hellions fire was OP in multiplayer or something? I don't play MP but I could see it...
Hellions turn into hellbats. It is terran's way of clearing light ground units, and since they have high health for such a low cost it's good for a mech playstyle because they cost only minerals.
6/6 Still that wasn't very fair for 2 first fights. You used coop firebat and multiplayer hellbat. Campaign firebat would have lost because doesn't have 100 life bonus while swann's hellbat would have won because of 100 more hp and 2 more armor. Either two lose either the two win.
This looks like the campaign firebat. Coop firebats have stim and +30% HP per armour upgrade for a total of 260 HP with all 3 armour upgrades as well as juggernaut plating. Against that number of 0/0 lings they would have had a lot more than 42 HP left.
Firebat bug i think ... the zergling in his back take damage despite not get hit by his flamethrower. Also Firebat is not optimize because it's not in multiplayer, where Hellbat has gone many tweaking.
@@mEtil5656 in fairness, the firebat upgrades were in the multiplayer back when firebats were in multiplayer. At least Juggernaut plating was, the +40% splash radius I'm not so sure about.
-I didn't think firebat would win. Man I look silly.- Called it with Marine Marauder vs Zealot Stalker, terran won. The hellions clean up the zerglings enough to mitigate the baneling damage Banshees are only weak to ghost EMP because of cloak. _what cloak?_ -These templar can't storm to save themselves. Literally.- *3/5*
Man if only the ghosts use only snipe instead, outcome might be better. Also I feel like I've seen the last match before, or maybe I've just seem HT lose so many times before.
Didnt even need to watch the video to know firebad would be a "i built one so you can't make zerglings now" unit, and the hellbat would be a "I'm balanced for competitive" unit.
Interestingly, the hellbat took 5 seconds to kill 25 lings, but the firebat took 8 seconds to kill the same amount. Hellbat dps is higher but the firebat's armor is just too high.
Also, Hellbats are bigger, which means more Zerglings can attack them at once and thus more damage (looked like 6 at at time could attack the firebat, while 8 could attack the hellbat). In most situations that wont be as much of a factor, since Hellbats are usually close together in a line protecting each other and either Siege Tanks or Thors from Zergling surrounds
Also the dispersion nozzles seemed to help cook the rest of the zerg.
wrr
Firebat damage all unit in contact with him while firing. Hellbat one shot zergling, but lack armor, is bigger and do not kill zergling hitting him from behind. The firebat is offensively less impressive, but he damage the units in front of him and in contact with him. if you look closely you will see he kill the zergling behind him while firing. So while the hell bat is more interesting when in a wall, the firebat will perform excellently even if they are surrounded.
I think ling+bling would have won if the banelings were in front of the lings.
The lings ended up walling off the banes lol, they should have been mixed in
True
Would be an interesting video to see the different formation combinations and how they fare.
wrrr
Templar psistorm doesnt stack. If spaced out templar may have won.
I think there was some logic that got them confused with Artanis HTs or something, since they kind of acted as if Plasma Surge was in effect.
Hydra stands no chance if psi storm are casted by a plat or higher ranked player in that fight
Its always an odd thing with these. In a lot of these fights the results could be much different with even a little bit of micro from one sides or another. Which is fine, but then stalkers get perfect blink micro in every fight.
@@glephnir726 no they dont do perfect blink. the Autocast ist just: Blink when shield is empty.... thats all ^^
@@glephnir726 The blink micro is nowhere near perfect though. Perfect blink micro would be dodging projectiles every time, and never blinking more distance than necessary to reset targeting. These blink as soon as their shield break, and always blink the maximum distance away from the damaging entity, which results in a lot of lost DPS if the stalkers aren't in massive numbers.
Oh. Ohhhh. Let's go firebaaaats.
EDIT:
Hot daaaaamn. I didn't expect the Firebat to perform that well. It not only killed off the entire ling rush, it also survived with just shy of half health.
It's the 5 armor against 0/0 that's insane. They're literally doing 1 hp damage per hit, so the firebat can take 100 hits and the hellbat can only take 68 hits. Also, I think the hellbat is larger so more zergles can hit it at once. It looks 8 at a time for hellbat VS 6 at a time for firebat?
@@brendago4505 Yeah why dont he give hellbat the armor upgrade as well ?, it also got 5 armor in coop
Really I thought the firebat was always that OP, that's the reason they replaced firebats with hellbats in ladder as well I think. In WOL and HOTS firebats were freaking insane.
@@manhphuc4335 firebat was never in sc2 ladder
@@manhphuc4335 wol firebats are trash buddy. Like hot steaming garbage. Just build a single siege tank and get 20 times the better result.
High Templar's Storms seemed to be unevenly distributed
Both have bonus attack against light. But Firebats are heavy. So they will win
Plus firebats have higher damage density and more armor
things are no longer about to get heavy, but have become so already
as a combat unit, firebats are notably tougher since they are inherently armored, which is great in a scenario like this. so in a vacuum, firebats. problem is firebats required a tech lab, and have a gas requirement. hellbats don't have either of those drawbacks, though i think they do have to come from factories as a tradeoff. they also appear to hit slightly harder, since they were one-shotting zerglings, as opposed to a bunch of injured ones ringing the firebat
@@edschramm6757 the damage point is true. But for that, firebats have a better damage radius in close proximity
Taking half a point of damage from each attack rather than two points is a huge game changer.
I love the tests like the first one. Comparing hard counter units
Firebats vs Hellbats is kind of a hard comparison. The existence of banes means Firebats will always be better against masses of swarm enemies. However, both units suffer from filling an extremely narrow niche, but hellbats can just turn into a car and drive away from that problem.
So against Zerg swarms spesifically, Firebats are better. In an actual match where units need to be able to be consistently useful, Hellbats are better.
I'd love to see how Artanis' High Templar fare against regular ones. If I recall correctly, the way their storms work means the AI would be wasting it less.
The Plasma Surge upgrade does allow Psionic Storm casts to stack, and it allows restoration of shields to friendly units. The Direct Strike AI might benefit in some way with Artanis HTs (or campaign HTs, which are slightly different but have the same upgrade) over their versus counterparts.
Hydralisks got their revenge against high templars, I see.
Dont think the ghosts were using snipe. They mightve won with it
You can't snipe mech unit
StarCraft 2 Firebats are on another level
High templar forming the archon mid-battle would be neat
Would like to see a terran bio vs mech matchup. For example marine + marauder vs hellion + cyclone.
I think conscripts (mengks' workers/marines) vs. various Marines would be cool
I thought you would have added Nova Hellbat Rangers, Swann Hellbats, and HH Hellbats into the picture as well. And throw in Blaze since he is a firebat as well.
Yes I would like to see this one as well
5/6. Extra firebat's armor is very strong against 0/0 lings
There is HT mana?
Firebat ftw! Roasting Zerglings and serving with pride since 1998. Holy moly Hydras actually won something. Amazing xD. Basic Protoss ground sucking as usual againt Terran bio. This was an easy 5/5 :)
0:35 "Hehe.. I love the smell of toasted Zerglin's in the morning!"
Also, extra crispy.
to be fair the hellbat still is better cuz it only cost minerals
The first tests were interesting, but we've seen stalkers + zealots vs marine + marauder a million times.
Imagine if the hellbats have the 235 hp from coop in pvp
Stalker vs marauder is no contest lol. Soon as it got to that, knew it was game over
thats a reason why TvP is inbalanced
There were quite unexpected results for Terran! Firebat, Marine Marauder, and Hellbat Viking one! I thought Terran is really weak!
6 / 6. Always trust your fellow marines.
I was expecting a few different kinds of matchups, not just vs zerg.
What about Hellions with the infernal pre-igniter? How are they vs zerg?
They also lose as soon as they get surrounded. But if kited they can kill infinite zerglings off creep.
In this kind of matchup, worse in every way than the hellbats. Hellions strength is in mobility, being fast enough to keep ahead of off-creep zerglings. These fights don't showcase that, they're just slugfests, which de-emphasizes mobility and rewards armor and HP.
Firebat wins due to voice alone
It looks like a WoL campaign firebat against a ladder hellbat. Not sure if the test itself was wholly accurate because of this.
I kinda want to see the same test, but between Raynor's Firebat and Swann's Hellbat.
That said, I still personally like firebats a lot more.
Hydras vs Templars, hydras may have won, but they cost 3 times more resources to do so :s
i thought the whole episode would be compairng hellbats and firebats to different units in same setting, and then agains each other. Maybe next time
Ok that was a bit unfair you compared a ladder hellbat vs. a Raynor Firebat that has a total armor of 6 so the lings would be doing minimum damage to it. It should've been a Swann hellbat.
The ghosts and banshees were fighting over which movie to watch
Oh I just noticed something, the hellbats can't attack behind them, meanwhile the firebats can. If you pay attention at 0:35 the Firebat was firing at the lings in front but the 3 lings in the back got damaged too. Holy **** firebats are OP no wonder they got removed from ladder 😅.
Firebats should be available on the ladder - maybe instead of widow mines. Zergs would totally welcome the absence of mines and Terran would have reliable splash that doesn't automatically die to mass baneling a-move and also a splash that doesn't kill half of their own army 50% of the time.
Stalker+Zealot with micro (more expensive) loses to Marine+Marauder without micro (less expensive)? I knew barracks were stronger, but I didn't know it was THAT much
Cool video!
I'd love to see different AI modules fight against eachother. Could 20 blink stalkers, micro'd perfectly, beat 50 zealots?
200 siege tanks vs Dehaka please.
0:47 Protoss would have won if stalkers were in front of zealots such that they can utilize the perfect blink from AI to soak the gap closing damage.
terran marine/maurader combo just wins against zealots/stalker everytime. thats why you need templars.
But then they'd blink away and the zealots still get shot when closing in. Marines kick the shit out of Zealots, marauders kick the shit out of stalkers. This was always going to be a Terran victory.
Firebats v hellbats, there’s one key difference that makes the hellbat way better: Firebats have the armored tag, hellbats don’t.
That one small thing makes a MASSIVE difference.
that 25 gas makes a big difference vs zerglings lol
oh yes, campaign firebat vs ladder hellbat
I'd prefer some videos that are more focused...
Like what if every match up here was about the firebat vs the hellbat?
You could have faced them against zealots, or ultralisks or each other. We could see hydras fight HT in any other video, why'd it have to be on this one about the firebat and hellbat?
can you please tell me what's the name of music from 2:30 please?
Bro Firebats are gangster wtf. That Firechad just roasted 50 zerglings!
What are those numbers at the bottom? 80 for hellbat, 1000 for zerglings...
Which version of Hellbats are those? PvP, campaign, coop (Swann/Nova/H&H)?
After transform, Hellcat would be able to transit the battlefield a lot quicker than Firebat.
PvP version
Ladder.
Why does firebat got the armor upgrade from coop Raynor but Hellbat dont get the armor upgrade from Coop Swann ?
This looks like the campaign firebat actually. The juggernaut plating upgrade was originally in the campaign and it only granted +2 armour without the +100 HP.
@@SaulGoodman3D2049 ah, make sense, the firebat dont use stim either
given one of my buddies constantly ragging on the firebat, i expected hellbat to come out ahead. the hellbat did appear to have better damage, but lacked the defenses to stand up to the zerglings once ringed. firebats are tough bastards. i think my buddies complaints boil down to firebats take a tech lab and gas.
i had terrans winning vs zealots/stalkers. marauders are good vs armored, stalkers i don't think have any special damage. hellbats handled the zerglings, and took too many banelings for the vikings to be at risk of getting wiped.
Ghosts v banshees i expected banshees to win, but had concerns about them overkilling units instead of spreading their damage correctly. it started happening later on, but didn't do enough to cause them difficulties early on.
Hydralisks won as soon as they started ringing around, Storm good unit, but once the templar ran out of energy, they were screwed. that attack doesn't do enough damage to really buy them a fight if they don't have a major numbers advantage, which they never really did. the biggest advantage they ever had was +8 over the hydralisks. they took a lot out, to be fair. "they will fight and die bravely... but still... they will die"
was running hot until the last two 😢
Extra crispy 😁😁 my man firebat
I never understood the point of hellbats... is it because the longer range of hellions fire was OP in multiplayer or something?
I don't play MP but I could see it...
Hellions turn into hellbats. It is terran's way of clearing light ground units, and since they have high health for such a low cost it's good for a mech playstyle because they cost only minerals.
Unlucky, got two wrong because longs and banes were in the wrong order and ht ran out of mana
6/6 Still that wasn't very fair for 2 first fights. You used coop firebat and multiplayer hellbat. Campaign firebat would have lost because doesn't have 100 life bonus while swann's hellbat would have won because of 100 more hp and 2 more armor. Either two lose either the two win.
This looks like the campaign firebat. Coop firebats have stim and +30% HP per armour upgrade for a total of 260 HP with all 3 armour upgrades as well as juggernaut plating. Against that number of 0/0 lings they would have had a lot more than 42 HP left.
Firebat bug i think ... the zergling in his back take damage despite not get hit by his flamethrower. Also Firebat is not optimize because it's not in multiplayer, where Hellbat has gone many tweaking.
Please do an who can kill dehaka Challenge
is it just me hearing a discord join call sound at 0:06
wtf firebat attacks even damage zerglings that are behind him???
Firebats only win because of juggernaut plating
well... it's part of their kit sooooo
Yeah I know, though most unit upgrades of the campaign are completely busted. So you cant really compare a campaign to a Multiplayer unit
@@mEtil5656 in fairness, the firebat upgrades were in the multiplayer back when firebats were in multiplayer. At least Juggernaut plating was, the +40% splash radius I'm not so sure about.
@@Santisima_Trinidad firebats were only in multiplayer in brood war, never in this game
@@Santisima_Trinidad they only had stim or am I wrong? Long time ago
6 Kills
5 Life
3 On this Hand
2 On the Other
2/6
-I didn't think firebat would win. Man I look silly.-
Called it with Marine Marauder vs Zealot Stalker, terran won.
The hellions clean up the zerglings enough to mitigate the baneling damage
Banshees are only weak to ghost EMP because of cloak. _what cloak?_
-These templar can't storm to save themselves. Literally.-
*3/5*
Greetings to those who care, and have a good day!
TIL Firebats can hit enemies behind them.
00:16 00:17 [00:19 00:21] [[00:28 00:32]] [[[00:33]]] 00:34 00:36 [00:39 00:41]
aww yiss daddy bat action
Firebats > Hellbats because firebat anti-light damage applies to Hellbats
Firebats have way more armour, so they wins
Man if only the ghosts use only snipe instead, outcome might be better. Also I feel like I've seen the last match before, or maybe I've just seem HT lose so many times before.
i think snipe only applie to biological units, might be wrong
@@agustinmelar5496 for ladder ghosts yes. I think Nova's Ghosts can snipe anything
@@KachiAT Nova's ghosts also can only snipe biological. It's Nova herself who can snipe anything.
@@SaulGoodman3D2049 ah, I see. Thx for correcting me
shows that extra armor matters than extra damage lol 25 kills to 50
4/5. Not bad.
Multiplayer hellbat or raynor firebat, good joke, try it with swans hellbats
Firebats kick ass
Firebat>> hellbat
6/6
1/6😲
3/6
Didnt even need to watch the video to know firebad would be a "i built one so you can't make zerglings now" unit, and the hellbat would be a "I'm balanced for competitive" unit.
Let me guess, Zerg Bronze league player😂
2/6 yey
0/6
Wow...
As usual, Hellbats are useless.
No their not their just not the right match for zerglings their made for brood lords
I can't stand to look at SC2 anymore...it looks disgusting compared to SC1
Boring video this time… can we hurry up and see a video dedicated to what defeats dehaka ?
Only 1 Firebat in this whole video.
I expected more Hellbat vs Firebat tests with different compositions.
Waste of time.
juggernaut plating carried
6/4
Only 1 Firebat in this whole video.
I expected more Hellbat vs Firebat tests with different compositions.
Waste of time.