My new boyfriend told me that I did not even Consider his feelings when I was going to visit my relative overnight who now is living with My ex-boyfriend. I told him “You’re right! I didn’t even Think about considering your feelings. I’m a bad girlfriend. I need to break up.” NOW I have a new revelation that Considering a significant other’s feelings is only level 1. Actually Altering My Plans for someone else is a level 2 and I don’t think I could do it without a lot of resentment. I don’t want to be controlled by anyone but myself. I also don’t feel good about causing anyone pain. I feel like I can’t win in a relationship. Hopefully you’ll do a video about these thoughts. Thank you for your amazing videos!
@@arthurtheartist I think I may have Limerence with a guy who has Limerence toward me. We check on each other about twice a week by text. I get butterflies in my tummy. He says I drive him wild. Neither of us sext btw. We hook up about 3 times a year. I’d prefer once monthly I think. We aren’t in an official relationship. I focus on my own projects and he does his. I think we are happier than expected. We have don’t ask don’t tell about dating others. We can’t cheat. We aren’t a couple!
Firstly thank you for your email and sharing this video with me. Being the Oldest child at an early age I was always helping my mom with my siblings. Both parents separated for a year. The got back together and My Dad's Job was demanding and therefore was always away and I helped Mom a lot and basically that's been my whole life. My first boyfriend and lived a defacto relationship since 2000 have 2 kids by my partner passed away 2016 from a massive heart attack 💔 So the last 7 years been finding myself with my kids living abroad in boarding school, Covid,but I'm thankful we have communication. So my mother-in-law asked me when am I going to get out and meet a man, and I've reached out on a dating site 😅... it's going good 👍 just building slow connections. To the possibilities 😀🙏🌈💛💪 Thank you 🙏
Let me first say that obviously every DA is different so I can really only speak for myself. And I know there are many DAs who aren't trying to heal and they repeatedly hurt others, which is wrong. Your frustration is justified. That being said, some comments make me sad because I feel like some people demonize people like me. But I'm aware of my issues and I'm trying to fix it, so I try to not take the bitterness personally. I promise not all of us are cold and heartless😅. We're just the unfortunate product of some level of emotional neglect. And as a child, we did what we could with what we had to get by. I am so thankful that you understand me. Thank you for not calling me a bad person because of what I experienced as a child. I never would have chosen it for myself, and it's not fair to me or the people I'm close with. Yet, it is an unfortunate reality so I'm trying to fix it. Thank you for being kind and helping me overcome my challenges ❤️
@jaye that is so well expressed. Sounds like you're working hard and have a lot of insight. I'm sorry you experienced neglect and are having to relearn. The anti DA comments are awful at times. Although as an FA I see some pretty grim stuff written about FAs too, not so much about APs. I'm confused re @imm... saying the people aren't acknowledging AP/FA trauma. FA are labelled as being from such chaos that some attachment "specialists" claim we can't be healed (it's not true don't panic...I'm a long way into healed after 6 months PDS🎉). Thais talks about the chaotic environments often w addicts or abusive parents. I'm pretty sure APs desperate clinging is also explaining in terms of their negative experiences. I don't think anyone gets a get out of jail free card. We all have reasons, but FA have an advantage that often growth is a real draw/need so that makes "doing the work" actually a positive experience overall.
@@aliceinwonderland8904💯! though admittedly had concerns about the DA i'm with potentially being a narc in the beginning (i'm an FA with CPTSD partly from growing up with both overt/grandiose & covert/vulnerable narcissists then brilliantly had a child with a neglectful narcissist 🤪) learning about DA, they strike me as probably the least likely attachment style to actually be a narc!
*THANK YOU* for sharing this 💜 not a DA but the partner of one & it's always so upsetting for me to see awful comments about your attachment style i usually respond to them trying to encourage considering the harm those comments could cause as well as how *all* attachment styles have their pros & cons fwiw, i think DAs tend to get far too little credit. though my relationship has definitely been difficult at times, find our dynamic (i'm an FA) has actually been *incredibly* helpful with encouraging me to become more secure & while my DA isn't interested in pds/at they've noted our relationship has helped them grow, too you *absolutely* deserve *all* the kindness you receive & i sincerely can't say how much appreciate DAs who are brave enough to share insights into their experiences which can help those of us who love DAs understand a little bit better - btw, did you know the partner of thais is a DA?
@@aliceinwonderland8904 I wonder how much overlap there is what is toxic traits that mirror narc. Vs what comes from avoidancy. For example empathy I feel by their nature DA have less of it
It’s amazing how this is so exactly what I needed to hear right now 🙏 I’ve always thought my emotional independence was really healthy… and I’m still trying to carve out space for myself. This is such a complicated subject 🤔 and I’m new to the concept of interdependence, as well as counter-dependency. Makes sense when you explain it though! Thank you for all of this free teaching 🙏 Somehow I am only just realizing that underneath my own aloofness is a lot of pain.
thank you so much for opening up & sharing all that 💜 as an FA with a DA partner i always appreciate getting more 1st hand insights into your attachment style welcome to these new concepts, i hope they help you heal from all that pain because you absolutely deserve that!
I would love to see a series with some volunteer DA's(short 10-15 minutes) where they would say themselves how they feel and think during deactivating/a fight,after a break up,what real challenges they face.
@@Muse720 I think people would get a bit of mercy for them if they step outside of their comfort zone and share hemselvs vulnerably) at least in the comment section of that particular video
If you join PDS that's the kind of conversation that happens often during or after the interactive webinars. I've had lots of really interesting chats w DAs describing how they experience shut down or other experiences. What I've heard often; it's fear of getting it wrong, not knowing what to say, it's feeling deeply hurt and scared esp if their partner is FA who is being very outwardly distressed. Some say they can't speak they can't articulate anything because they are frozen effectively. But it's also great to hear from the DAs in pds who are healing & getting better at understanding themselves ❤
Could you create a Video for Dismissive Avoidants? I feel most of you content is geared towards the partners (mostly other insecurely attached people) centered around understanding them but that's not helping if they are the problem in a relationship. We can talk about them being sensitive to shame all day long but in the a lot of the beliefs they hold are really impossible to build a relaxing and healthy relationship around. I am securely attached I was basically completely unaware of how defensive they can get when you openly state what you need. I was with a DA I felt the lack of healthy relationship and it does hurt being rejected in the small and large interactions with them. I found it is not attractive to me anymore. I still sometimes dwell on what I could have said differently, I'd be interested what a pro would say to them. That being said, I won't go back. I will start a counselors training next year and i have no interest in becoming my partners therapist.
@@sparrowwilson4514 still they yearn for stable relationships. But they suffer heartbreaks and turmoil and stress. In my estimation it's always the others that are at fault in their heads but they could improve their lives drastically by being in good relationships. My Ex could have had a good relationship with me, I know I have been in a stable relationship for 12 years. But I could not handle her anymore so I had to go. I am sure that hurt, it hurt me as well.
I perceive the video as helpful for DAs & people who know them for awareness purposes. Healing is what the online program is designed to help with because it requires a conscious & dedicated commitment.
Great video! As a DA i definitely notice the emotional detachment, but at the same time I've lived my life like this and i don't know any other way, but i can see people read it as defensiveness while i feel like I'm an open book.
Video suggestions: (1) Can APs/FAs be truly happy with DAs, and what would the realistic best case outcome look like? What's the best it can get? I imagine the best-case relationship between, say, an FA and a DA will still be quite different than a relationship between an FA and an AP, even after everyone heals? Or is this not true? (2) What are some milestones that must happen in an AP-DA (etc.) dynamic for both people to feel completely fulfilled? E.g., does the AP partner need their DA partner to become romantic? (3) How to tell whether it's your expectations or your partner that needs to change. In other words, when do you keep pushing for change vs. accept that your partner can't meet some of your needs, and you have to meet the elsewhere. What's the balance between expecting your partner to meet too much of your needs vs. flaw-finding and worrying excessively that a certain need is not being met? Maybe also with separate videos for each attachment style combination. Thank you for all your groundbreaking work, Thais.
So basically the moral of the story is, you can't be in a relationship with somebody who is dismissive avoidant, because they don't actually want to be in a relationship. 😓
They do, but the more extreme they are, the less capacity they have to be in a "normal" relationship, especially when it is past honeymoon stage and getting into commitment stage.
@@warmhart2034 Yes. I came to the realization that my now ex-boyfriend, who is a textbook definition of dismissive avoidant, is really only interested in the following in love / honeymoon phase of the relationship. And once it gets real and you have to start dealing with the power struggle phase of the relationship, he has absolutely no ability or willingness to actually move through that process. To actually develop a real relationship. He does not have the willingness to put in that kind of effort, to create reciprocity.
This is 100% my ex, who had 2 severe adverse childhood events. He was baffling to me for 3.5 years because he loved me so much but had all theses behaviors. Wish I’d found this sooner! Thank you.
I very much relate to the comment about keeping distance and avoiding commitment because of fear getting trapped in a situation where my needs aren’t being met. That was basically my experience from 11 yrs old onward and I just had to count down the years until I was 18 and could make my own decisions about how to protect my own well-being. Now that I’ve been thriving (hyper) independently for 20+ years, I know the next growth frontier is to learn to trust and rely on a partner, but the instincts to protect myself (my space, my energy, my finances, everything) run so deep it’s difficult to receive.
My Partner is DA, instead of asking for help, they try to seek attention from everyone, instead of coming to their close ones, they publicly share on their insta or Snapchat that they are not in a good state of mind or in good place, but cant directly come to me, and when i try, they pretend they don't need any help, and when any of their friends try to help they gladly accept their help and also tell the same story to everyone about how they are mentally disturbed, so that they all sympathize with my partner, is this normal for DA to seek attention, because this is attention seeking !! how should i go with this situation ?
Thank you as always. So much healing since joining PDS 💜 I'd love more content on this & how DA can buuld tolerance and trust in interdependence and seeking help/support in life struggles. Their counterdepence seems to overlap with helpless hopeless - if they have an issue they wont see help that others might routinely take as likely to be of any use.
This isn't something I thought I struggled with, but watching it now I think I do. At least when I am connecting with someone who is actually available, which frightens me. Thank you for these insights :)
I feel as an FA waking up at home and going my through my trauma I’ve become like this. And the more I learned how the world fit together the more of a terror managment theory type war it became. I’m not sure how to see life any different.
can you please do a video on why men ghost? more specifically, I was in a relationship with someone for about a year, and then we broke up (due to us not being healed from our past, nothing bad actually happened between us). we tried to reconnect/get back together recently (7 months after we broke up), and then he completely ghosted me out of nowhere. while we were reconnecting, he said he never got over me and realized how great of a relationship we had and he wanted to try to get back together but was super super scared of doing so (even though he broke up with me). its just so weird that he said all these things to me like how he regretted breaking up with me, and I was willing to give him a second chance, but the more we hung out and the more feelings that came back up, the more he pulled away and eventually just ghosted me out of nowhere. he has a fearful avoidant attachment style so im sure that has to do with it (and im an AP but ive been working on healing). a video regarding this would be super helpful!
Actually, he sounds more like a Dismissive Avoidant. Something similar happened to me. DAs operate from their feelings minus their fears. Thais has videos on why each attachment style may ghost.
You provide so much information to help me make sense of my life, my relationships and the people around me. Your wisdom is shared with compassion and kindness. I just wanted you to know that what you're doing is valued and I hope you continue your excellent work.
Random question Thias but curious nonetheless How does a DA relate to their parents once they realise they have an avoidant attachment and they played a part in that? Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Thank you
I can't speak for all DAs but here is my personal experience, which might still change over coming years. I think I'm at the more extreme end of being a DA. I might one day be able to enter a long term stable relationship but I'm years from that at the moment. I have accepted that my father and my older sister will never manage to recognise that their treatment of me (extreme control, irrational blame, unwarranted criticism, unpredictable violence, emotional manipulation) was problematic, nor that it has anything to do with why I can't live in the same state as them (New South Wales). I think my mother is intelligent enough to feel deep down that her parenting might have been problematic but she will never reach the point of being able to reflect on that because it arouses too much shame. I tried a few years ago to broach that and she immediately shut down that conversation. However, she is more loving and supportive of me now than when I was a child and trying to be less critical and less judgmental. I think this stems from some vague feeling that her parenting might have contributed to the dysfunctional adult I've become and the distance that I need from the family. I think she doesn't want to lose me altogether and wants some healing, even though she'll never be able to actually look back and face what's gone wrong. However dysfunctional my relationship is with my parents, I love them. It's also easier to love someone from a safe distance, when they have less capacity to hurt you and you're not in "fight or flight mode." Even after I left home, for many years, my parents were still able to exert a lot of emotional and behavioural control over me, because this was programmed into me all through my childhood and adolescence. But the longer you spend away from that environment and are exposed to different opinions / lifestyles / family dynamics, the more you start to individuate. This individuation can be a really slow process because the childhood traumas echo through trauma bonding in dysfunctional adult relationships, until we figure out that our relationship pattern is not inevitable and that we need to look at why we repeatedly hurt, and get hurt by, those closest to us. The first time I really defied my parents was three years ago, after a long-term ex-girlfriend died of cancer. It was a very emotional time for me. My parents told me that, if I attended her funeral, the family would never again have anything to do with me and they emphasised how much my niece (who never knew her own father) would miss me. I had some old photographs at my parents' house, which had sentimental value for me. My parents had often asked me to collect them because they took up too much space but, whenever I visited, they either couldn't find the photos or couldn't access them. Many members of my ex-gf's family had been kind to me and I felt that it would be hurtful if I didn't attend the funeral. I said that I would attend. I asked my parents to either mail me my old photos, in which case I would reimburse them, or to hang onto them until I could get back to NSW to collect them. I expressed sadness that I could never again be a part of the family. My parents didn't end up following through with their plan and a few months later, it was as if nothing had happened. Although this was traumatic for me, I realise now that it sent an important message that there are limits to their influence and that my relationship with the family requires effort and compromise on both sides. As an aside, I contributed financially to the funeral and was asked to speak at the funeral. I think my relationship to my parents could be summarised as trauma bonding. Through childhood and adolescence, I strove so hard to achieve their approval and I occasionally achieved that, for example through sports achievements and getting into medical school. I never established this sort of bond with my sister, probably because her hurtful behaviour was never interspersed with any validation. The trauma bond has, however, weakened after decades away from the family. There was a time when I would have liked acknowledgement from my parents that their parenting was not always perfect but I'm less interested in that now and, in fact don't really want to open old wounds. It's far easier to discuss this with an online community who doesn't know me than to re-live old traumas with the family. As they say, "Let sleeping dogs lie." It was only a year ago, after my last break-up, that I started to learn about psychology, personality disorders, relationships and attachment styles. I realised how my family had contributed to my insecure attachment style, people-pleasing and other dysfunctional behaviours. It also raised painful questions for me, such as "Did they understand what they were doing to me?" I've had to accept that I will never have answers to these questions and to move on. I've recently starting talking about my childhood to a coupe of close friends. One of them thinks that I should have nothing to do with my family but family bonds are really powerful and difficult to sever. Emotions aren't rational. I love my parents and I always will. I believe that they love me, despite all the hurt that has happened. I accept that my relationship with my parents is as good as it will ever be. I can't talk to them about any problems in my life, I can't share deep emotions with them and I would never let myself be in a situation where I depend on them but I love them and, if they ever needed help, I would try to help them. Based on my personal experiences, I suspect that many dismissive avoidants, even years after leaving home, are still subject to the manipulations that created their insecure attachment style in the first place. Despite loving their parents, they need a lot of distance in order to minimise how much their parents can hurt them. Once they are able to weaken the trauma bond and the parental influence, they will still love their parents but will never have the emotional intimacy that securely attached people have with their parents. When the DA recognises the harm that the parenting style caused, old wounds will re-open and the DA might temporarily withdraw again from the family while they try to better understand why their parents acted as they did. This is not a general answer, just a personal answer to your question about how DAs relate to their parents once they realise the damage that their parents have caused. It might or might not be more widely applicable to DAs in general. Apologies for jumping in with a long essay when your question was aimed at Thais. I hope it was helpful.
Thank you so much for your input. not a problem. I really hope you are getting stronger every day. I was with my DA for 9 months and recently broke up with him - in no contact 2 months. I love & care for him so much - I wish I had discovered Thais & the PDS before and was more understandable. I know he is missing me, but I am
@@marinajones2309 Thank you for your kind words, Marina. I can't speak with any certainty but it's likely that he thinks about you and cares about you. He also might feel that you have no blame in the break up. DAs can be really supportive friends and good lovers but when commitment enters the conversation, if they haven't had a lot of help sorting our their issues, they might run a mile. I think it's not easy being in love with a DA. Just remember to look after yourself and maintain friends and interests outside of the relationship. I really wish you success and happiness. Norman
Thank you so much, Norman, for your insight and your advice.i am really mindful and will take on board your comments. I can now look back on his text's messages and see that he was invested, maybe not in my way but his way. We don't do social media except whatsapp and I have decided to go on private so he can't see me online as I know he's watching me on there. When I go off private I can see its checking in something he would never do. I do care about him and myself and want to give us a chance. How did you discover your a DA and any advice with how to broach the topic. I have tried after our breakup by telling him I've discovered attachment theories and I'm looking into mine to help myself grow - so I've planted the seed for him
I can only suppose they would percieve you as another,,DA" and they are never attracted to their own behaviour.Thais made a video recently on 2 DA's in relationship.Or they will percieve the mirroring behaviour as a lack of interest and close off even harder
Why is counter dependency not spoken about much ? I have been researching narcissism for 5 years even codependancy has been mentioned back then but i only heard of counter dependency yesterday.
I may be A "dismissive avoidant" but it was in response to narcissistic controlling manipulative gaslighting behavior from my partner and i became dismissive and avoidant i gave 100% effort and resources and got no effort in return all i got was attitude arguments aggressiveness and told all kinds of malicious things to try to attack my confidence try to control me and throw nasty verbal jabs at me and there's only so much i will take then it's like watching myself build an emotional wall that even i couldn't tear down even if i wanted to so in my case it was a response to a stimuli 🤷🏽♂️ now go ahead and villanize me
it's frustrating to see how often DAs are villainized & i'm sorry for your experience 💜 as an FA with CPTSD partly from growing up with narcissists & gaslighting i can definitely relate to how difficult that is! one thing i really appreciate about thais is how kind & validating she is regarding *all* attachment styles, particularly DAs - which makes sense, especially as her partner's a DA ☺️ learning about DA attachment has helped me better understand & connect with my DA partner which has also helped me work on my own issues to start becoming a bit more secure i sincerely hope you can have a similar experience as you absolutely deserve to not only feel but actually be safe enough that you can let down your walls with those who are trustworthy
@r_and_a you know what over the course of my life I've been physically and verbally abused molested sexually assaulted manipulated and gaslighted over the course of my life all of these things were done to me by girls and women and I feel like we're being blamed for not enduring abuse. All my life I've been a magnet for female predators that want to prey on me in one way or another. And it wasn't until I started to understand my worth and be able to set boundaries that I'm able to prevent some of these people with this predatory behavior from abusing me. Even as a grown man in the workplace it gets crazy some of the things your co workers say and do to is insane you now some guys I guess just leave abruptly for no reason and to me that's different but some of us has those things built in to protect ourselves
@@ComradeCoop thank you for sharing so much of your experience so hopefully more can understand 💜 i'm sorry but not surprised to read you've repeatedly been victimized as it seems predators can recognize subtle signs of damage others of their kind leave on their victims glad you're discovering your own worth & creating boundaries to protect yourself! hope that can help you have more choice & control with how much you share with others rather than getting to the point you build a wall you couldn't dismantle even if you wanted to as you originally described pds is full of great, supportive people working on healing all sorts of wounds with a variety of tools that might be useful for you. unfortunately like all groups of humans there are some who are less kind, understanding, etc but hope you'll continue to advocate for yourself & wish you the best on your journey
After watching dozens of videos on this channel, I've FINALLY figured out a proper name for my place on the DA spectrum; DA leaning. So much of the DA behaviors don't apply to me, but some of the DA philosophies definitely do.
I’m hyper independent because I have no choice otherwise. People have shown me time and again how unreliable and self serving they are. I severely broke my ankle last year and the people that actually helped me with things were very few and far between.
Do you think they might have felt like you didn’t want their help? I think when someone builds walls, people won’t climb the prickles to get in as they don’t feel welcome
Same here. I almost died after my husband died as we tried to care for our violent (due to encephalitis damage) disabled child in our 50s. I lost my husband and then my son was adopted out. I was in bed 3 months after my son moved out. If we’d had help, we’d probably still be all alive and together.
Can this happen to a person after they get their heart broken really bad? My first love wasn’t like this at all but he came back after 25 years and he is totally different and very emotionally detached. I really just felt like he wanted to get back at me for what happened when we broke up.
Is counter dependency something you have struggled with?
I use to, with a healthy dose of hypervigilance. #FA
My new boyfriend told me that I did not even Consider his feelings when I was going to visit my relative overnight who now is living with My ex-boyfriend. I told him “You’re right! I didn’t even Think about considering your feelings. I’m a bad girlfriend. I need to break up.” NOW I have a new revelation that Considering a significant other’s feelings is only level 1. Actually Altering My Plans for someone else is a level 2 and I don’t think I could do it without a lot of resentment. I don’t want to be controlled by anyone but myself. I also don’t feel good about causing anyone pain. I feel like I can’t win in a relationship.
Hopefully you’ll do a video about these thoughts.
Thank you for your amazing videos!
@@arthurtheartist I think I may have Limerence with a guy who has Limerence toward me. We check on each other about twice a week by text. I get butterflies in my tummy. He says I drive him wild. Neither of us sext btw. We hook up about 3 times a year. I’d prefer once monthly I think. We aren’t in an official relationship. I focus on my own projects and he does his. I think we are happier than expected. We have don’t ask don’t tell about dating others. We can’t cheat. We aren’t a couple!
@@RaisingZane you're welcome! thanks for sharing ❤
Firstly thank you for your email and sharing this video with me. Being the Oldest child at an early age I was always helping my mom with my siblings. Both parents separated for a year. The got back together and My Dad's Job was demanding and therefore was always away and I helped Mom a lot and basically that's been my whole life. My first boyfriend and lived a defacto relationship since 2000 have 2 kids by my partner passed away 2016 from a massive heart attack 💔 So the last 7 years been finding myself with my kids living abroad in boarding school, Covid,but I'm thankful we have communication. So my mother-in-law asked me when am I going to get out and meet a man, and I've reached out on a dating site 😅... it's going good 👍 just building slow connections. To the possibilities 😀🙏🌈💛💪 Thank you 🙏
Let me first say that obviously every DA is different so I can really only speak for myself. And I know there are many DAs who aren't trying to heal and they repeatedly hurt others, which is wrong. Your frustration is justified. That being said, some comments make me sad because I feel like some people demonize people like me. But I'm aware of my issues and I'm trying to fix it, so I try to not take the bitterness personally. I promise not all of us are cold and heartless😅. We're just the unfortunate product of some level of emotional neglect. And as a child, we did what we could with what we had to get by. I am so thankful that you understand me. Thank you for not calling me a bad person because of what I experienced as a child. I never would have chosen it for myself, and it's not fair to me or the people I'm close with. Yet, it is an unfortunate reality so I'm trying to fix it. Thank you for being kind and helping me overcome my challenges ❤️
@jaye that is so well expressed. Sounds like you're working hard and have a lot of insight. I'm sorry you experienced neglect and are having to relearn. The anti DA comments are awful at times. Although as an FA I see some pretty grim stuff written about FAs too, not so much about APs.
I'm confused re @imm... saying the people aren't acknowledging AP/FA trauma. FA are labelled as being from such chaos that some attachment "specialists" claim we can't be healed (it's not true don't panic...I'm a long way into healed after 6 months PDS🎉). Thais talks about the chaotic environments often w addicts or abusive parents. I'm pretty sure APs desperate clinging is also explaining in terms of their negative experiences. I don't think anyone gets a get out of jail free card. We all have reasons, but FA have an advantage that often growth is a real draw/need so that makes "doing the work" actually a positive experience overall.
Some, if not a lot of that hostility towards DA's is people confusing them with narcissists.
@@aliceinwonderland8904💯! though admittedly had concerns about the DA i'm with potentially being a narc in the beginning (i'm an FA with CPTSD partly from growing up with both overt/grandiose & covert/vulnerable narcissists then brilliantly had a child with a neglectful narcissist 🤪) learning about DA, they strike me as probably the least likely attachment style to actually be a narc!
*THANK YOU* for sharing this 💜 not a DA but the partner of one & it's always so upsetting for me to see awful comments about your attachment style i usually respond to them trying to encourage considering the harm those comments could cause as well as how *all* attachment styles have their pros & cons
fwiw, i think DAs tend to get far too little credit. though my relationship has definitely been difficult at times, find our dynamic (i'm an FA) has actually been *incredibly* helpful with encouraging me to become more secure & while my DA isn't interested in pds/at they've noted our relationship has helped them grow, too
you *absolutely* deserve *all* the kindness you receive & i sincerely can't say how much appreciate DAs who are brave enough to share insights into their experiences which can help those of us who love DAs understand a little bit better - btw, did you know the partner of thais is a DA?
@@aliceinwonderland8904 I wonder how much overlap there is what is toxic traits that mirror narc. Vs what comes from avoidancy. For example empathy I feel by their nature DA have less of it
It’s amazing how this is so exactly what I needed to hear right now 🙏 I’ve always thought my emotional independence was really healthy… and I’m still trying to carve out space for myself. This is such a complicated subject 🤔 and I’m new to the concept of interdependence, as well as counter-dependency. Makes sense when you explain it though! Thank you for all of this free teaching 🙏
Somehow I am only just realizing that underneath my own aloofness is a lot of pain.
I could have written your comment for myself. I think all that too.
thank you so much for opening up & sharing all that 💜 as an FA with a DA partner i always appreciate getting more 1st hand insights into your attachment style
welcome to these new concepts, i hope they help you heal from all that pain because you absolutely deserve that!
I would love to see a series with some volunteer DA's(short 10-15 minutes) where they would say themselves how they feel and think during deactivating/a fight,after a break up,what real challenges they face.
Good luck finding DAs to volunteer, they get so much hate from the audience of this channel as it is!
@@Muse720 I think people would get a bit of mercy for them if they step outside of their comfort zone and share hemselvs vulnerably) at least in the comment section of that particular video
what? you want a DA to say how they feel? .... don't be joking now ;D
If you join PDS that's the kind of conversation that happens often during or after the interactive webinars. I've had lots of really interesting chats w DAs describing how they experience shut down or other experiences.
What I've heard often; it's fear of getting it wrong, not knowing what to say, it's feeling deeply hurt and scared esp if their partner is FA who is being very outwardly distressed. Some say they can't speak they can't articulate anything because they are frozen effectively.
But it's also great to hear from the DAs in pds who are healing & getting better at understanding themselves ❤
I’m a DA. I’d volunteer!
Could you create a Video for Dismissive Avoidants? I feel most of you content is geared towards the partners (mostly other insecurely attached people) centered around understanding them but that's not helping if they are the problem in a relationship. We can talk about them being sensitive to shame all day long but in the a lot of the beliefs they hold are really impossible to build a relaxing and healthy relationship around. I am securely attached I was basically completely unaware of how defensive they can get when you openly state what you need. I was with a DA I felt the lack of healthy relationship and it does hurt being rejected in the small and large interactions with them. I found it is not attractive to me anymore. I still sometimes dwell on what I could have said differently, I'd be interested what a pro would say to them. That being said, I won't go back. I will start a counselors training next year and i have no interest in becoming my partners therapist.
To be fair, the partners of DAs are the ones who probably struggle the most. DAs don’t really perceive their behaviour as a problem most of the time.
@@sparrowwilson4514 still they yearn for stable relationships. But they suffer heartbreaks and turmoil and stress. In my estimation it's always the others that are at fault in their heads but they could improve their lives drastically by being in good relationships. My Ex could have had a good relationship with me, I know I have been in a stable relationship for 12 years. But I could not handle her anymore so I had to go. I am sure that hurt, it hurt me as well.
What a healthy thing to hear,, I am no longer attracted to that,I won't go back". This is what I work towards 👏
Right there are healthy and unhealthy versions of each attachment style and the so called victims seem to lack common sense in picking a partner
I perceive the video as helpful for DAs & people who know them for awareness purposes. Healing is what the online program is designed to help with because it requires a conscious & dedicated commitment.
Great video! As a DA i definitely notice the emotional detachment, but at the same time I've lived my life like this and i don't know any other way, but i can see people read it as defensiveness while i feel like I'm an open book.
Video suggestions:
(1) Can APs/FAs be truly happy with DAs, and what would the realistic best case outcome look like? What's the best it can get? I imagine the best-case relationship between, say, an FA and a DA will still be quite different than a relationship between an FA and an AP, even after everyone heals? Or is this not true?
(2) What are some milestones that must happen in an AP-DA (etc.) dynamic for both people to feel completely fulfilled? E.g., does the AP partner need their DA partner to become romantic?
(3) How to tell whether it's your expectations or your partner that needs to change. In other words, when do you keep pushing for change vs. accept that your partner can't meet some of your needs, and you have to meet the elsewhere. What's the balance between expecting your partner to meet too much of your needs vs. flaw-finding and worrying excessively that a certain need is not being met? Maybe also with separate videos for each attachment style combination.
Thank you for all your groundbreaking work, Thais.
Thank you for the suggestions ❤
since thais is an FA & her partner's a DA imagine her answer to #1 is yes 💜
@@r_and_aI think they both need to be aware and working on it though
@@rachhhh9722 true of *all* attachment styles imo
Would love to see these videos! Great suggestions
So basically the moral of the story is, you can't be in a relationship with somebody who is dismissive avoidant, because they don't actually want to be in a relationship. 😓
@@arthurtheartist I cannot even put into words the level of disappointment I have gone through.
@@WahkeenaSitkait’s also a choice. You have the right and choice to yourself and walk away from someone who can’t have a healthy loving relationship
They do, but the more extreme they are, the less capacity they have to be in a "normal" relationship, especially when it is past honeymoon stage and getting into commitment stage.
@@warmhart2034 Yes. I came to the realization that my now ex-boyfriend, who is a textbook definition of dismissive avoidant, is really only interested in the following in love / honeymoon phase of the relationship. And once it gets real and you have to start dealing with the power struggle phase of the relationship, he has absolutely no ability or willingness to actually move through that process. To actually develop a real relationship. He does not have the willingness to put in that kind of effort, to create reciprocity.
Yep I gave him so much love and space as a secure person and still got treated bad never again they need their own little island.
This is 100% my ex, who had 2 severe adverse childhood events. He was baffling to me for 3.5 years because he loved me so much but had all theses behaviors. Wish I’d found this sooner! Thank you.
ive had this major counter dependency and im a fearful avoidant
I very much relate to the comment about keeping distance and avoiding commitment because of fear getting trapped in a situation where my needs aren’t being met. That was basically my experience from 11 yrs old onward and I just had to count down the years until I was 18 and could make my own decisions about how to protect my own well-being. Now that I’ve been thriving (hyper) independently for 20+ years, I know the next growth frontier is to learn to trust and rely on a partner, but the instincts to protect myself (my space, my energy, my finances, everything) run so deep it’s difficult to receive.
My Partner is DA, instead of asking for help, they try to seek attention from everyone, instead of coming to their close ones, they publicly share on their insta or Snapchat that they are not in a good state of mind or in good place, but cant directly come to me, and when i try, they pretend they don't need any help, and when any of their friends try to help they gladly accept their help and also tell the same story to everyone about how they are mentally disturbed, so that they all sympathize with my partner, is this normal for DA to seek attention, because this is attention seeking !! how should i go with this situation ?
I sure sounds like attention seeking
What is wrong with these people, i don't get it, running away from close one's and want's attention from the rest
Just run
@@nemesis0428exactly!!!!
@@NemesisBeeI don't want to😔
Thank you as always. So much healing since joining PDS 💜 I'd love more content on this & how DA can buuld tolerance and trust in interdependence and seeking help/support in life struggles. Their counterdepence seems to overlap with helpless hopeless - if they have an issue they wont see help that others might routinely take as likely to be of any use.
As a Fearful Avoidant, I relate to most, if not all, of these.
This isn't something I thought I struggled with, but watching it now I think I do. At least when I am connecting with someone who is actually available, which frightens me. Thank you for these insights :)
One of the best videos I have seen on the subject.Thank you
you're welcome!
Please more on counter dependency with the other attachment styles
❤
I love how accurate Thais's description is! the point about being controlled was apt!
I feel as an FA waking up at home and going my through my trauma I’ve become like this. And the more I learned how the world fit together the more of a terror managment theory type war it became. I’m not sure how to see life any different.
Thank you! This video was spot on...
Let us know any ideas you have for future video topics!
can you please do a video on why men ghost? more specifically, I was in a relationship with someone for about a year, and then we broke up (due to us not being healed from our past, nothing bad actually happened between us). we tried to reconnect/get back together recently (7 months after we broke up), and then he completely ghosted me out of nowhere. while we were reconnecting, he said he never got over me and realized how great of a relationship we had and he wanted to try to get back together but was super super scared of doing so (even though he broke up with me). its just so weird that he said all these things to me like how he regretted breaking up with me, and I was willing to give him a second chance, but the more we hung out and the more feelings that came back up, the more he pulled away and eventually just ghosted me out of nowhere. he has a fearful avoidant attachment style so im sure that has to do with it (and im an AP but ive been working on healing). a video regarding this would be super helpful!
Actually, he sounds more like a Dismissive Avoidant. Something similar happened to me. DAs operate from their feelings minus their fears. Thais has videos on why each attachment style may ghost.
Thanks!
Thank you! ❤❤❤❤
You provide so much information to help me make sense of my life, my relationships and the people around me. Your wisdom is shared with compassion and kindness. I just wanted you to know that what you're doing is valued and I hope you continue your excellent work.
Random question Thias but curious nonetheless
How does a DA relate to their parents once they realise they have an avoidant attachment and they played a part in that?
Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Thank you
I can't speak for all DAs but here is my personal experience, which might still change over coming years. I think I'm at the more extreme end of being a DA. I might one day be able to enter a long term stable relationship but I'm years from that at the moment.
I have accepted that my father and my older sister will never manage to recognise that their treatment of me (extreme control, irrational blame, unwarranted criticism, unpredictable violence, emotional manipulation) was problematic, nor that it has anything to do with why I can't live in the same state as them (New South Wales). I think my mother is intelligent enough to feel deep down that her parenting might have been problematic but she will never reach the point of being able to reflect on that because it arouses too much shame. I tried a few years ago to broach that and she immediately shut down that conversation. However, she is more loving and supportive of me now than when I was a child and trying to be less critical and less judgmental. I think this stems from some vague feeling that her parenting might have contributed to the dysfunctional adult I've become and the distance that I need from the family. I think she doesn't want to lose me altogether and wants some healing, even though she'll never be able to actually look back and face what's gone wrong. However dysfunctional my relationship is with my parents, I love them. It's also easier to love someone from a safe distance, when they have less capacity to hurt you and you're not in "fight or flight mode." Even after I left home, for many years, my parents were still able to exert a lot of emotional and behavioural control over me, because this was programmed into me all through my childhood and adolescence. But the longer you spend away from that environment and are exposed to different opinions / lifestyles / family dynamics, the more you start to individuate. This individuation can be a really slow process because the childhood traumas echo through trauma bonding in dysfunctional adult relationships, until we figure out that our relationship pattern is not inevitable and that we need to look at why we repeatedly hurt, and get hurt by, those closest to us.
The first time I really defied my parents was three years ago, after a long-term ex-girlfriend died of cancer. It was a very emotional time for me. My parents told me that, if I attended her funeral, the family would never again have anything to do with me and they emphasised how much my niece (who never knew her own father) would miss me. I had some old photographs at my parents' house, which had sentimental value for me. My parents had often asked me to collect them because they took up too much space but, whenever I visited, they either couldn't find the photos or couldn't access them. Many members of my ex-gf's family had been kind to me and I felt that it would be hurtful if I didn't attend the funeral. I said that I would attend. I asked my parents to either mail me my old photos, in which case I would reimburse them, or to hang onto them until I could get back to NSW to collect them. I expressed sadness that I could never again be a part of the family. My parents didn't end up following through with their plan and a few months later, it was as if nothing had happened. Although this was traumatic for me, I realise now that it sent an important message that there are limits to their influence and that my relationship with the family requires effort and compromise on both sides. As an aside, I contributed financially to the funeral and was asked to speak at the funeral.
I think my relationship to my parents could be summarised as trauma bonding. Through childhood and adolescence, I strove so hard to achieve their approval and I occasionally achieved that, for example through sports achievements and getting into medical school. I never established this sort of bond with my sister, probably because her hurtful behaviour was never interspersed with any validation. The trauma bond has, however, weakened after decades away from the family.
There was a time when I would have liked acknowledgement from my parents that their parenting was not always perfect but I'm less interested in that now and, in fact don't really want to open old wounds. It's far easier to discuss this with an online community who doesn't know me than to re-live old traumas with the family. As they say, "Let sleeping dogs lie."
It was only a year ago, after my last break-up, that I started to learn about psychology, personality disorders, relationships and attachment styles. I realised how my family had contributed to my insecure attachment style, people-pleasing and other dysfunctional behaviours. It also raised painful questions for me, such as "Did they understand what they were doing to me?" I've had to accept that I will never have answers to these questions and to move on.
I've recently starting talking about my childhood to a coupe of close friends. One of them thinks that I should have nothing to do with my family but family bonds are really powerful and difficult to sever. Emotions aren't rational. I love my parents and I always will. I believe that they love me, despite all the hurt that has happened. I accept that my relationship with my parents is as good as it will ever be. I can't talk to them about any problems in my life, I can't share deep emotions with them and I would never let myself be in a situation where I depend on them but I love them and, if they ever needed help, I would try to help them.
Based on my personal experiences, I suspect that many dismissive avoidants, even years after leaving home, are still subject to the manipulations that created their insecure attachment style in the first place. Despite loving their parents, they need a lot of distance in order to minimise how much their parents can hurt them. Once they are able to weaken the trauma bond and the parental influence, they will still love their parents but will never have the emotional intimacy that securely attached people have with their parents. When the DA recognises the harm that the parenting style caused, old wounds will re-open and the DA might temporarily withdraw again from the family while they try to better understand why their parents acted as they did.
This is not a general answer, just a personal answer to your question about how DAs relate to their parents once they realise the damage that their parents have caused. It might or might not be more widely applicable to DAs in general. Apologies for jumping in with a long essay when your question was aimed at Thais. I hope it was helpful.
Thank you so much for your input. not a problem.
I really hope you are getting stronger every day.
I was with my DA for 9 months and recently broke up with him - in no contact 2 months.
I love & care for him so much - I wish I had discovered Thais & the PDS before and was more understandable.
I know he is missing me, but I am
working on myself before I can go back.
Good luck with your own journey.
@@marinajones2309 Thank you for your kind words, Marina. I can't speak with any certainty but it's likely that he thinks about you and cares about you. He also might feel that you have no blame in the break up. DAs can be really supportive friends and good lovers but when commitment enters the conversation, if they haven't had a lot of help sorting our their issues, they might run a mile. I think it's not easy being in love with a DA. Just remember to look after yourself and maintain friends and interests outside of the relationship. I really wish you success and happiness. Norman
Thank you so much, Norman, for your insight and your advice.i am really mindful and will take on board your comments.
I can now look back on his text's messages and see that he was invested, maybe not in my way but his way. We don't do social media except whatsapp and I have decided to go on private so he can't see me online as I know he's watching me on there. When I go off private I can see its checking in something he would never do.
I do care about him and myself and want to give us a chance.
How did you discover your a DA and any advice with how to broach the topic.
I have tried after our breakup by telling him I've discovered attachment theories and I'm looking into mine to help myself grow - so I've planted the seed for him
I wonder what do DA feels when you mirror them? Like if they do those stuffs, you do the same. Do they get annoyed or something?
Very good question.
@@imm0rtalitypassi0n smh, im tired understanding them
@@careitina1412 i hope thais will also notice this question..
I can only suppose they would percieve you as another,,DA" and they are never attracted to their own behaviour.Thais made a video recently on 2 DA's in relationship.Or they will percieve the mirroring behaviour as a lack of interest and close off even harder
Why is counter dependency not spoken about much ? I have been researching narcissism for 5 years even codependancy has been mentioned back then but i only heard of counter dependency yesterday.
I may be A "dismissive avoidant" but it was in response to narcissistic controlling manipulative gaslighting behavior from my partner and i became dismissive and avoidant i gave 100% effort and resources and got no effort in return all i got was attitude arguments aggressiveness and told all kinds of malicious things to try to attack my confidence try to control me and throw nasty verbal jabs at me and there's only so much i will take then it's like watching myself build an emotional wall that even i couldn't tear down even if i wanted to so in my case it was a response to a stimuli 🤷🏽♂️ now go ahead and villanize me
it's frustrating to see how often DAs are villainized & i'm sorry for your experience 💜 as an FA with CPTSD partly from growing up with narcissists & gaslighting i can definitely relate to how difficult that is!
one thing i really appreciate about thais is how kind & validating she is regarding *all* attachment styles, particularly DAs - which makes sense, especially as her partner's a DA ☺️
learning about DA attachment has helped me better understand & connect with my DA partner which has also helped me work on my own issues to start becoming a bit more secure
i sincerely hope you can have a similar experience as you absolutely deserve to not only feel but actually be safe enough that you can let down your walls with those who are trustworthy
@r_and_a you know what over the course of my life I've been physically and verbally abused molested sexually assaulted manipulated and gaslighted over the course of my life all of these things were done to me by girls and women and I feel like we're being blamed for not enduring abuse. All my life I've been a magnet for female predators that want to prey on me in one way or another. And it wasn't until I started to understand my worth and be able to set boundaries that I'm able to prevent some of these people with this predatory behavior from abusing me. Even as a grown man in the workplace it gets crazy some of the things your co workers say and do to is insane you now some guys I guess just leave abruptly for no reason and to me that's different but some of us has those things built in to protect ourselves
@@ComradeCoop thank you for sharing so much of your experience so hopefully more can understand 💜 i'm sorry but not surprised to read you've repeatedly been victimized as it seems predators can recognize subtle signs of damage others of their kind leave on their victims
glad you're discovering your own worth & creating boundaries to protect yourself! hope that can help you have more choice & control with how much you share with others rather than getting to the point you build a wall you couldn't dismantle even if you wanted to as you originally described
pds is full of great, supportive people working on healing all sorts of wounds with a variety of tools that might be useful for you. unfortunately like all groups of humans there are some who are less kind, understanding, etc but hope you'll continue to advocate for yourself & wish you the best on your journey
What could your partner do to make it better?
Da is formed in childhood. Are you saying you became one after a relationship?
After watching dozens of videos on this channel, I've FINALLY figured out a proper name for my place on the DA spectrum; DA leaning. So much of the DA behaviors don't apply to me, but some of the DA philosophies definitely do.
❤
Great episode
I’m hyper independent because I have no choice otherwise. People have shown me time and again how unreliable and self serving they are. I severely broke my ankle last year and the people that actually helped me with things were very few and far between.
Do you think they might have felt like you didn’t want their help? I think when someone builds walls, people won’t climb the prickles to get in as they don’t feel welcome
@@kittthompson But I asked them for help directly.
@@ashleyc506 That’s rough. I’m sorry no one stepped up. You deserved better than that.
Same here. I almost died after my husband died as we tried to care for our violent (due to encephalitis damage) disabled child in our 50s. I lost my husband and then my son was adopted out. I was in bed 3 months after my son moved out. If we’d had help, we’d probably still be all alive and together.
@@RaisingZane This is devastating. What a sad journey you’ve had. I’m sorry for your needless loss and heartbreak.
Can this happen to a person after they get their heart broken really bad? My first love wasn’t like this at all but he came back after 25 years and he is totally different and very emotionally detached. I really just felt like he wanted to get back at me for what happened when we broke up.
Thanks for sharing! Wish you could speak a bit slow tho haha
A lot of people are NOSY! 😂 I do not need to know about you & "be vulnerable" for us to work well together.
That's fine for you. But for most people, a close intimate romantic relationship requires vulnerability.
who, ME????!!!!!