I've Been Counting This MOTLEY CRUE RIFF Wrong My Whole Life! (Have you been too?)
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- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
- -I've Been Counting This MOTLEY CRUE RIFF Wrong My Whole Life! (Have you been too?)
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Never actually counted this song. But as a drummer, the hits always felt like 2 & 4 to me. We all hear stuff different.
And I’d bet anything that when they were working on the intro, no counting was involved at all. Mick probably told Tommy to play “Bam Bam Bam” where he wanted to hear it. You know what I mean. That mystifying fucking way guitar players try to explain what they want the drummer to play?
Truuuue! Friggin guitarists. I'm a drummer and never counted it either.
Same here.
All in the same camp. When he started the video I was surprised he thought it was 1 and 3 🤣
I've always believed MM was such an under-rated guitarist. He came up with some of the best riffs in the 80's.
It was the pink kramers and makeup that did him in
Nikki wrote most of those riffs.
@@GM-pn7ih In the case of "Kickstart My Heart," check out the song "Hell Raiser" by The Sweet to hear where the riff came from.
@@aaronkristo858 Yep - that's totally the riff
It's funny how sometimes the biggest bands can somehow have the most underrated musicians. It happens way more to rhythm players, like astonishingly i think James Hetfield and Paul Stanley are overlooked a bit...
In the case of Crüe, i think Mick is just overshadowed by the loud characters of everyone else in the band, even though he's the best musician
Always loved that intro. Such power with the slow chugging, only to open up to full speed and almost trick you! Legendary intro from a legendary band.
Yeah I love the fake out on the second to last power chord where it goes into the main riff.
When I was in sixth grade learning this song just after Dr. Feelgood was released, I had a terrible time counting it in. My teacher, who was the one who got me into theory and music nerdness, told me "stop counting and just feel this one." Did the same for Master of Puppets a year later. Best advice ever.
Yep that's was probably the best advice he could give you. Learn all the rules and then break them.
Indeed, I don't think I was counting a lot but more feeling what I recalled from the album.
I've always heard it the new way. It never occured to me that someone would hear it differently. Thinking maybe it's b/c I always heard it as a drummer and typically those big hit accents appear on 2 & 4 in 80s rock.
Same. Those accents always sounded like a one-TWO-three-FOUR to me.
I’m not a drummer and I heard it the second way, too. It just feels more natural.
I think u put more thought into learning it than motley cruel did writing it. It's pretty straight forward
5 years ago, I auditioned to play drums in a band. This was the song I feared playing and now that I see your explanation, I get it. I played it more with feel than actually counting. I just listened to the audio from my audition and it went better than I thought it would. The challenging tune turned out to be Sex is on Fire - tricky counting!
I didn't get the gig...
It never occurred to me you could hear the drums hits on 1 & 3, I always heard them on 2 & 4, maybe because I started out as a drummer and it made more sense that way!
This seems to be a recurring observation: drummers (like me) hear the drums on 2 and 4 (the "correct" way), but maybe others listening more to the guitar accents mentally adjusted the drums to hear what they were naturally drawn to.
I hear either or. Kick is always 1 & 3 and snare is always beats 2&4
@@andrewhart9310 I’m a guitarist and, to me, it’s dead obvious that the hits are on 2 and 4… that’s why MM is accenting it that way. I don’t understand how anyone could hear it as 1 and 3.
Yeah i counted it exactly as you used to do! Would love a video where you go through a couple of songs that is often “miscounted” like this one!
He has a few.
I've had this same problem since 1989. This video is a mystery solver!!!....but I still can't count it right.
The rhythm always sounded and felt so werid to me so i used to try for a few minutes and they say "fuck it"
Yep, I knew when I saw the video pop up in my feed that this was the song you’d be covering. I heard it for years the same way you did, originally.. I still, to this day, 30+ years later, hear it that way unless I pause the song at the very beginning and focus on the correct rhythm/count before the riff kicks in. Otherwise my brain reverts to how I interpreted it for over a quarter of a century. Old habits die hard, I guess!
When the video started I thought, ‘Ah, I’m bound to have been doing this wrong for years’, but was actually doing it right (for a change). I always looked at the climb-up G and G# as a kind of lead in to the actual riff in A starting on the 1, rather than them being the start of the riff. Thinking of it that way gets you in the right place on the 1 through 4. Your videos are superb by the way. Just watched your flight of the wounded bumble bee video - mind blown after all these years!
True.. actually if you listen to the song live off decade of decadence you can hear Tommy counting in the band 1 2- 1 2 3& mick comes in.
Does Mick come in on the &?
Thank you for analysing this one. I know you're not alone with the confusion of the intro. It rocks so hard but I couldn't make that transition. Now it finally makes sense!!
It's funny: I could tell your original way was wrong based on knowing the song so well, but I had no idea why it was wrong! But def feels much better the correct way. Do it the real way live, for sure!
I had a similar experience. I've always heard it "right," but I'd never even noticed how awkward it sounds with the accents until he played it here. Now I can't un-hear his original way of hearing it!
It sounded fine both ways to me. Especially in a live setting nobody is going to pick up on such a small detail but I understand wanting to play it the correct way. Some of us have that "perfection" trait. I do and it really sucks sometimes and not just with guitar. Congrats on the almost 700,000 subs!
That's more of a band thing than an audience "picking it up" thing. If bandmembers don't understand it, mayhem is just a beat away.
Admittedly, I've never tried playing this before, but the old way "felt" wrong. It's kinda like wearing a shirt that doesn't belong to you. It can be the same size you typically wear, but the simple act of having it on your body just makes you say "no...".
I don't even play guitar, but still love these breakdowns. Good stuff, man.
Check out Deep Purple's 'Maybe I'm a Leo' it sounds like it starts on the down beat of beat 1 for the first 4 bars then it flips to starting on the "and" of beat 1 ... what's really brilliant about is both riffs sound fantastic!
This is perfect. I've played this with multiple bands and none were ever able to hit the intro correctly because of the off beat. This explains it perfectly. Great job.
I'm also a drummer and when playing it, the three cymbal hits before the main riff I count as 4-&-1. This way, the snare hits on 2 and 4.
I usually go off of feel instead of counting. But as soon as you brought it up I immediately felt like it was on 2 and 4.
I think you're right here just by looking at how the chromatic lead-in is on the 4 beat in the verse riff... but that said, Motley Crue were perfectly capable of dropping beats, like they did (well, two beats) in the Live Wire outro, or when switching tempo in Take Me to the Top, and probably a bunch of other places.
I’ve been playing this song for about a year with my friend and have been thinking about this almost daily. You solved it, thank you!!! Been driving me nuts because I never had the time to sit down and figure it out.
Honestly I never got this wrong until you slowed it down and dissected it. Thinking about it makes it more difficult for me.
It's really fascinating the way our brains work, down to how we "hear" music differently in our heads.
I've never heard it the way you do: I've always heard it the "correct" way, with the drum beats accenting on the 2 and 4 (like a ba-DUM ba-DUM) - but I also mentally just kind of ejected a guitar strum in the process. My brain just kind of auto-corrected the riff to fit what I thought was happening in the beat (One Two Three-baaa-da One) - which IS what is happening, by luck.
I've never heard it the same way as you, nor even really noticed that "extra" note in the guitar, until this video - and now I can't un-hear it! :D
I love your videos exploring interesting timing and accents, how certain songs "trick" us into thinking the beat (the one) is somewhere else. This one never did for me, but a lot of them (that you've already covered) did, and took me a long time to mentally tweak my brain to anticipate them "right."
The whole counting thing strikes me as the difference between "catching a ball" and "writing the equation for a balls trajectory" - like I know where the ball is gonna be, even if I can't explain exactly how I know with numbers. I'm kind of the same way about music. I'm absolutely mystified by things like "...the _and_ of 2" or "a quick 3/4 bar" - I just play where the notes are "supposed" to be.
Most of our favorite guitarists also just play by feel.
Yeah this shit is overthinking. Just... play it when it starts
What happens when you have to play something complex enough that you can’t simply hear it once and repeat it back? “Just….play the rhythm right” is such an intellectually lazy thing to say because it implies that a) everyone has a very intuitive sense of rhythm
b) everyone plays entirely braindead simple songs
Being aware of the beat is a pretty basic thing, though. Definitely not comparable to "writing equations". I have heard enough musicians who only "feel it", and while they can play some things naturally, when they need to play something that doesn't follow a pattern they are familiar with, suddenly they don't know what to do. Being able to find the downbeat is not rocket science - it's a very basic musician skill. Being able to do a "count off" to a song, and understand on which beat the riff starts is a really basic skill.
I have also heard enough musicians who think they are playing the rhythm correctly when they actually aren't. When they play without a drummer, they constantly skip (or add) beats or play in an inconsistent tempo.
If you hear a song, can you find the pulse? Can you count "one two three four" along with the song? If yes, the "and" is just the subdivisions between these pulses - the notes between the main beats. A bar of 3/4 just means that there's one measure where you count to 3 instead of 4. (The bottom number in the time signature refers to the note value, but this is not very important unless you are actually notating the rhythm - 3/4 basically means "count to 3 in the measure".)
It makes sense if you follow the counting in the video.
Most of your favorite musicians definitely know where the downbeat is and whether the song is "in 4" or "in 3". They also know that in a basic rock drum beat, the snare is on the 2 and 4. This is very basic stuff. Sorry, I just don't like anti-intellectualism, especially when it comes to such basic stuff as knowing where the downbeat is. If this was stuff like "did you know that they use Mixolydian in the verse and then borrow the bVI chord from the parallel minor", this is stuff that isn't as relevant. It's still interesting and definitely improves your musical vocabulary, but it isn't something that you need to know in order to perform the song accurately. But being able to feel the rhythm (which includes feeling where the downbeat is) is a very important thing.
Omg finally! Even playing this one on Rocksmith, I never could figure out what I was counting wrong. Thank you lol
This is cool. The one song where the counting in the opening always made no sense to me was the beginning of Van Halen's Panama. If you feel like doing a video on that, I'd love it.
I have a backing track at the beginning, I can play the motorcycle sounds, and after that, after the 3rd beat of the drum, I start the riff.
That’s an awesome observation dude! I’ve been playing it wrong all this time 😅😅great video !
And of 3 is the obvious way to count it haha. As a guitarist myself, I could never hear myself counting it differently. His “hard hits” are on the 2 and 4… like obviously.
Never realized this after knowing it for almost 30 yrs, awesome!
Yeah, I just noticed the same when I was practicing. Thank you for a clear explanation!
Please note that there's also a pull off on the little finger in the chorus part
I always heard it on the ‘and’ of 3, so that never confused me. Famously though these things happen with many well known tunes. The intro to Rock N Roll by Led Zeppelin is a good example.
Great Session. I had listened to the song for about two weeks when I was 16 before I had a chance to sit down and try to cover it; loved the guitar sound. The funny part is I had it in my head as your "old way", and then stopped after the first go and said, nope, count it out! And then corrected right then and there and was good :). But, I can tell you being in cover bands over the years how many people think that your "old way" is right. I said count it out... can't fake this one! Great piece and channel.
Motley Crue have previous for this, check out Livewire, especially the break and count in before the final chorus.
Yeah...me too!! :0 You just blew my mind...as per usual!!
I have to play this with a band in a few days. I play lots of syncopated stuff, odd time, etc and I could not find the 1, or in this case the & of 3. Great job explaining it!
For sure I did!....ages ago, when I tried to play along to the track. Other tricky ones were the timing of Number of the Beast (7/4), the intro to Bark at the Moon has some tricky timing stuff. Two specific timing intro also include both Panama (try playing along with the recording!) and Hot For Teacher.
first off, great tone and content...i love this era of music. i feel lucky that i always felt the drums hitting on the 2 and 4. i'm fascinated by the topic of off beat intro stuff though; just what i needed by the cars, rock n roll by zepplin, sex on fire, panama, and many many others i can't think of at the moment. finally, glad you're feeling it right now :) rock on man!
Same here in France, buddy, counted it wrong for a while. Thanks for your video and for helping others 🤘
Original riff taken from Hellraiser by The Sweet. No accents.
Just for fun, I tried to see if I could figure out where I would come in (I never count, unless it's for a break that's a little tricky, or some odd meter) and if it differed from what you'd been hearing prior to recognizing your mistake... I was right. The 'and' of 3... It's nice to have innate timing, but it can be a weakness when you need to communicate with someone who's not catching it.
I also counted it your way with hits on 1 and 3 and I also had to do the 3/4 trick to get the explosion right. If I was the Crüe's pyro tech I would have been fired after two shows!
Oh wow. I've always counted like you did too. I didn't realize I had the count wrong. I always felt off going into that main riff. I thought I was just messing it up all the time
Dude I knew the song before I heard you tell us. Mars is an underrated master. You got it spot on. Good idea to remove the accents until one has that nasty riff down!
such a humble teacher
One peculiar song I had to learn recently on guitar is Kings of Leon Sex on Fire. I had to work with drummer and singer about coming in correctly. I’m originally a drummer so always hear songs differently. See what you think.
Well, I always counted the old way, and always wondered why I felt rushed going into the riff. Now I know! This makes a ton of sense, thanks! Definitely using the new way from now on.
It always sounded to my ear like the drums came in on the 3 since the original recording starts with just guitar. I started counting when the opening riff started and the drums were then relative to that.
Love these pragmatic looks at how the timing all comes together in these videos. Fascinating content, I hope it works well for you.
Good job, always wondered about that riff, thx:)
I had tried to learn this a while back and kept getting confused, so this helps a lot.
Amen! Still have the same issue everytime I listen or play it :)
Sometimes learning the real way gives you a new appreciation for these musicians. They often have weird off timings or things that we might consider mistakes that make the songs just that much harder to play for normal people.
Your old way sounds like you are playing in a cigar lounge somewhere... It threw me right off. 😜😜😜🤘🤘💥
I’ve always started on the “and” of three. But then I do that on almost every song I play... except “Happy Birthday”.
Come to think of it, I play Happy Birthday that way too. No wonder they kicked me out of the band.
As a guitarist who has a lot of struggle with some drum parts to me it was obvious the riff starts on the "&" of 3, at least it's clear that the accent is on the quarter note and so it felt natural to consider it as the 1. But me too as a guitarist sometimes do weird things with times so I get it.
Edit: after a more focused listening, you almost give no accent to the quarter note on the 1, to me Mick does it a lot more, it would help you with your struggle
The intro to Bodysnatchers by Radiohead...No matter how many times I listen to it, I CANNOT get it right in my head. I hear that first guitar strum as the downbeat and it's not. Those first three notes are pickup notes and the downbeat is on the muted strum.
Interesting. But I never really counted the riff. I just played to the album and tried to get it right over and over, not thinking to much. It worked out and I never even thought about people having this issue until know :-)
The only time I had any problem to get it right is maybe when I tried to play it with some drummer... But not playing it at home. But I actually think that I might have more issues with it if I was counting "1-2-3-4" loud in my head 😂
Sometimes the counting only confuses me more, maybe because I learned everthing by myself at home and never had a guitar teacher...
The counting was never a big part of my own "lessons" the first 3 years :-) (I just tried to play to the albums and I had some Motley and Metallica tabs)
Thanks for the lesson!
Genius explanation dude.
Yes, that intro always confused me as well. Your instructional really helps make sense of it. Great job!
I would play the correct way, but any way you want it is fine. Love your guitar tone, btw. Very reminiscent of 80s Mötley.
this video came in clutch, i literally watched the dirt 10 minutes ago
I knew what this was gonna be, before it even started. Has ALWAYS caused me grief.
I always counted that intro like I would count Whole Lotta Love
Weird, I never had a problem with this song and always heard it the 'real' way. One song that always messed me up though was DLR - Going Crazy. That one completely does my head in!
This is wild. I’ve always heard it coming in on the and of 3, so this is bending my brain lol
You have one of the better guitar channels. Cheers
Dude, that's "Hell raiser" by The Sweet!
Not to toot my own horn but I always had this one right, but for some reason the way I learned the intro to enter sandman was a bit off until drums come in. Billy talent - st. Veronica is another one that messes me up everytime. Cheers.
You always do a fantastic job man! Thanks for your work and detail, you're the best! How about.. the ending solos for Skid Row's Big Gun? Always seemed to me one of tje best 80s tricks representative and thrilling endings.. not exposed in video around.. what do you think?
Totally enjoy your videos, the accent breakdown makes total sense because we as guitar players want to hit that with the drums. For working on the off count parts, I highly recommend Mr bungle first album, it has many fun parts, just the breakdown bridge in My Ass is On Fire is a lesson, we spent a bit of time to cover that song so long ago, it's still awesome. And they do a totally cool version live, different journey, same song. Check it out. I had so many of those tab books too, passion and warfare was of course most accurate, stay groovy
1st way was ok but now that you know how it's played I've listened to it had me convinced so for me 2nd way
I don't see why that would be confusing, the drums come in on the second beat of the third measure, it might be confusing to a guitarist if they're used to the drums coming in on a down beat. Either way, Kick start my heart is an amazing song and widely considered one of the greatest Mötley Crüe songs by fans.
So that explains it! ; ) MC RAWKS!! ... and btw, listening to MC while driving sometimes results in a speeding ticket!! LOL!
I've always heard it like the first way you heard it too. I still can't get the intro right, but hearing what Mick is doing in the verse helps me put the A power chord on the 1.
I was literately trying this yesterday!
No you weren't
I never had this issue. I always had the one in the right place in my head, from the first time I heard it when it came out. But I'm a bass player originally. Bass players can count.
Just listen to Hellraiser by Sweet. That’s where they lifted the riff, and it’s played better.
I’ve always heard this song correctly, probably because the phrase returns later in the verses. OTHER songs have haunted me though - the intro timing to “Jealous Again” by Black Crowes 😭. I’ll take to my grave hearing the solo section of Metallica’s “Fight Fire with Fire” incorrectly. And last but not least, the drum intro to “Rock n Roll” by Led Zeppelin. (Honorable mention to the Police’s “Spirits In the Material World” verse section. 😮)
Yup. Exactly the same for me. I was able to adjust once and had it, but I've reverted and I can't seem to get back on track 🤦🏻♂️
10 Seconds to love begins on a weird count too.
Interesting, I didn't know the song before but I could only hear it with the hits on the 2 and 4 even with the counts for your version on the screen. I definitely remember being caught out by "are the hits on 1 & 3 or 2 & 4?" issues before though with other songs. Normally though you'll find they're on the 2 & the 4. 1 & 3 can sound it a bit plodding, if you want the song to have energy and momentum 2 & 4 are the way to go!
You sustain that suschord when it shouldn't be, they should be fast and snappy short accents! But it was still an interesting video to watch. Mick Mars rules
SO SHWEEEETTT...much love Tee with LIONS NAMED LEO.[the music worldwide}
and ooo cool..!!!
I LOVE your honesty and SUPERB ability to communicate your corrections. I didn't struggle with THIS particular song, but my similar NEMESIS is Metallica's "Battery" from Master of Puppets. After the acoustic intro, I've programmed my brain the WRONG timing, and have struggled with it since 1986 (I'm old 😆). I can play along effectively, yet I know my count is different than theirs for at least 8 measures, then the timing change, which I'm back on track again. Can you help me tackle this one? Were they so spun on crank that they just winged it? I doubt that, because I understand EVERY OTHER "complex timing" song Metallica has EVER recorded, old and new. "Battery" has me stumped. 🤔 Any help for us guitar junkies is much needed. THANKS! Great channel BTW!!!
I'm ok with Battery, it's Fight Fire With Fire that I've never been able to hear right.
The old way, but your new way makes more sense
As soon as I saw the title, I knew this was gonna be the song
Now it makes sense... I was in a band with a really good guitar player and we tried this song... It went nowhere fast. He was getting so pissed at himself. He said he'd work on it some more... We never ended up doing it because he couldn't get it. Now I know why.. It's definitely not as easy as it seems.
This always threw me off, even when just listening to it! It similar with Lights Out by Royal Blood (first note is on the ee of 1) and Misery by the japanese artist Hide (First strong note lands on the And of 4). This is a great breakdown of how it works! hopefully i can listen to it correctly from now on! 😂
That riff is so good, and so simple i tried to learn it but always sounded wrong, now i have solution thanks
Awesome! Way to figure it out
I never counted it but but as a drummer, I always heard those intro snare hits as where he usually plays them, on the 2 and 4... or on the upbeat since I wasn't counting.
I get so confused with the tectonic shift in Wild Side. I'm sure it sounds logical to most, but I trip up every time and end up just singing along!!
I really enjoy your videos....what was weird when I watched this one is that when I saw the breakdown of the "wrong" version, I thought "yeah, that's how I always counted it"....then, during the correct version I went "no, that's how I counted and played it" 😂😂
Heard it right the whole time, with the right count. Blatantly stole the riff for my "Punk" band and the guys don´t know Motley Crüe, but they had problems with the right count, so you are not alone. ;-)
Helpful, thanks!
I always heard it on the up. Big fan of syncopation. Listen to it as an intake of breath by the guitar and you'll never forget it.