3D Printed Electric Hydroplane
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2024
- The worlds first 3D printed Hydrofoil and no not a model! A full size hydrofoil of which I can drive!
Check Out the Anycubic Kobra 2 Max here!
www.anycubic.com/
3D Prints to glue? Gloop is your stuff! Find them here!
www.3dgloop.com/
Mate I thought you were going to become a submarine
Thank you for preventing that
"You do CAD like you're sculpting clay." I have never felt so attacked. Teach me your ways, oh wise one.
Casually almost drowned wtf
“Don’t help - just film”😂
The captain must go down with the ship 😂
Does the scale model work in water?
Nope!
Perfect!
Maybe reach out to RCTestFlight here on RUclips? He's done a lot of stuff on hydrofoils, hydroplanes, and similar, both ridden and RC - and is very knowledgeable about propeller design too
rctestflight would have all his answers lol
Probably because your printer is not square. For small prints, you won't notice. Once you scale up it starts to show.
Yes. This.
or due to the hot filler foam
It could also be thermal contraction, which doesn't always happen as evenly as you might consider. Can see more obvious signs of it in the delamination of some of the prints
Maybe printing in an enclosure would prevent uneven thermal contraction. Even a big cardboard box would work for that.
this or warping which with big parts is much more noticeable, when we don't even the expanding foam that might introduce more warp due to the pressure from expanding and reaching 80C
''You do CAD like you're sculpting clay'' really got me laughing for some reason.
I feel very offended :D
As opposed to creating your design around the quirks and nonsense that the software vendor allowed the programmers to create because they could be bothered to write a decent design spec. No bother with that, give me "clay sculpting" every time. 😁😁😁
@@timcorso6337 cool!
That's how I do fusion too
@@timcorso6337no, as opposed to proper, sketch-driven, parametric modelling. I deleted the rest of this answer, because I could rant a while.
Direct modelling has it's place, but there are other tools that are better for it.
Very interesting. The fall in water was funny but quite tense too
"haha he's fallen in the water".. camera pans "FFFFCK! !"
maybe choose non moving bits of water , not near submerged bridges !? :D
@@davefb "submerged bridges" literally means, "death trap."
Good advice to not be near those nor flowing water!
@@BlondieSLI'd guess its a "do that once" thing, whatever the outcome... At least its a nice video for 'water safety'.......
@@davefb So true.
😅😂🤣👍😁👍
You need to get the front side of the props into "cleaner" water, away from and/or below the hull of the boat. Longer prop shafts angled downward, with a streamlined support to help hold them straight.
Exactly. They're not pulling enough water from the front side. Either move them out or back farther or create a channel under the hull so they can source the water to pull and in turn push otherwise it's just going to suck.
I think the props should be larger as well. I think they're spinning too fast, and not gripping the water.@@collie147
It's crazy but also awesome to print such huge models 😄 Take care though, you falling into the water was pretty scary. Glad you had help 😃
1:30
You guys are more game than I standing right next to those 3D printed props with no glasses of anything 😆
Tom Stanton is a life saver. Literally
What a fine ship! Can’t believe you ended up in the flood water! 🤣🤣
Cant believe you Fell in Ha Ha and dont forget to Measure twice and Print once!! Great as always Keep it up !
With the prints having gaps I can think of two possible reasons:
1. your printer is not assembled perfectly square. On some prints you won't notice as the prints that are supposed to fit together were scewed in such directions that they still fit. But then in other joints those scews add up badly and you end up with the wedge shaped gap.
2. at these sizes even PLA warps. I have a V-Core 3 500x500x500 and I checked it is squared very well. However I still had issues with multipart prints fitting and often the gaps look like they open up towards the edges of the print. This is the higher layers of the print contracting and lifting the corners off the bed (sometimes it lifts the spring steel sheet with it if adhesion is that good). It can also make sides of your print bow inward because bottom and top are held more by having solid layers but in between the hot plastic can shrink more as it cools.
Cause 2 is more difficult to solve.
- Sometimes it can help to not use the max volume of your printer and rather split your model into more parts with more gaps but the gaps are then small enough to be filled with a glue.
- Having the printer enclosed helps a lot too as it prevents unwanted draft cooling but this is difficult with bed slingers. The bed moving along Y axis naturally cools the print as it swings it into fresh air repeatedly.
- If the shape has no overhangs like some of the hull sections here you might want to turn off the part cooling fan as well. On such big prints even PLA will have enough time to solidify enough before the nozzle comes again to the same spot to deposit the next layer.
- And finally the only way to really be fully dimensionally accurate on such big prints is fiber filled filament. I have tried PETG-CF, PCTG-CF and PCTG-GF (beautiful white look) and they all kept shape that was completely unprintable in normal PETG and visibly deformed in PLA. If you really want PLA for the gluing and such you could try PLA-CF. I never had it but based on how much the fibers helped on PETG I would guess that with PLA-CF your only accuracy limit will be the squaring of your printer. But be aware that you need a hardened nozzle and your speed limit might be a bit lower. For example on my printer I can do 38 mm3/s with normal PETG but only about 30-32 with PETG-CF. The hardened nozzle just transfers the heat less well. Also filaments with fibers are way more water absorbing than the same polymer without fibers. The water seems to creep in along the fibers or something. Drying the spool before you use it improves the results a lot.
10:26 danna nanna nanna nanna nanna nanna, Batman!🦇
My thoughts exactly! LOL
I would seriously consider fiberglassing the hull
Me too, their is a very fine "veil" cloth, a bit of reading and good to go assuming no issues with the 3d printed material reacting.
I'm fancying doing this with very thin ply and above, I'm sure I seen plans years back.
i think adding cowling around the props will help a lot with the cavitation issue.
That's a huge endeavor! It sure is satisfying when a plan comes together and works. Nice job.
I have to be honest about something.
When you talk about that new printer and the insane print speeds, that peeks interest for some of us.
BUT, when we see that the printer, as fast as it is, doesn't print accurately, this could be a deal breaker for many.
That issue with meeting at the top and bottom, while having such huge progressive gaps in the middle of the 2 parts, is not good.
This would be something that needs to be resolved, whether it's slicer settings (perhaps hotend/bed temps, they type of filament used that perhaps expands and/or contracts during/after print or something with the printer itself.
The other issue I saw there on several pieces were some layer separation. It looked like total separation, like maybe the filament didn't even extrude, or perhaps the filament does contract and caused that layer separation issue.
My printer used to do that too when I first got it and knew nothing about 3D printers or slicers.
I finally figured it out and it took a lot of tweaking and mods to my printer to get that issue resolved.
One of the tweaks was to reduce acceleration and jerk. The other, main tweak, was to print HOT! I print all my stuff at 235C. This way, the layers are coming out extra hot and just melt nicely into the layer below.
I use Cura and I use a feature it has called Fuzzy. I like the texture it creates, but by the way it creates the "fuzzy" texture, it also blends the layers together even better.
I never seen layer separations at all now.
I'm a guy who likes large build printers. Mine is 400x400x400 and while I've never printed anything that huge, it's nice to know it's there if I need to one day.
@6:25 "where there is light there will be water" Thanks mate! loll
The cavitation is mostly caused by the big cylindrical shapes that house the engines dragging through the water close to the water surface. They are creating an air bubble around the props most likely. I bet making a more streamlined nose cone for those things would help or moving the prop away from the thing by putting it on a longer axle is what normal boats do. I also think you'll want a more speedboat like prop, but that's complicated stuff. awesome video
Very photonicinduction vibes. Great vid. Cheers!
Why didn't you glue everything together first then fill it?
Next time add alignment tabs, tongue and groove sets, bow-tie connection points. This will allow your parts to lock together and self support far better. Bow-tie joints will pull the gaps together. Tongue and groove sets will keep parts straight. Alignment tabs will keep edge transitions between sections to a minimum.
if you want to stick to dual motor as your form of steering you'll need it to be software base because once you get up to speed on plane you'll want any adjustment to be miniscule or you risk loosing plane or loosing control. you also most definitely want your props to be mirrored otherwise you're just slamming the port side of the boat down into the water.
You will significantly reduce cavitation by reworking those motor mounts. Not only do they have a flat front face plowing in the water, theyre blocking the water from flowing through the prop. Instead they have to suck in water from the sides.
Cool project. Just came to mention that you must not have squared your printers before printing. This shows in your distorted parts. Your motor housing/mount needs to be smooth on the front. It should resemble the front of an outboard engines gearbox.
Cavitation is generally caused by props being too high for the application, or disturbed water flow. In this case, I think it is both. Larger propeller likely will help it (enough) though it would have been better if were below the center on pod(s). In the end, if it gets to planing speed, then you'll likely want the props level with planed out water level, or above. The hydroplanes you built is designed on the "3 point" design and are meant for much higher speed than 30. Normally, the boat will plane on the back portion of the sponsons and at lower speed the back of the boat. At extreme speed, they'll nearly just ride the propeller which will be roughly halfway out of the water at top speed. They are a bit different on prop placement than conventional v-bottom boats (where I have a lot of experience with small boats going fast).
If larger props didn't help, or help enough, you might also experiment with 'set-back' i.e. putting the motors BEHIND the boat instead of inside. This helps with stability, bow attitude (which may not help much on hydroplane), and overall speed. My 20' Hydrostream needed 8" of setback versus mounting the outboard directly on the stern with prop 2" above center line to hit its max speed of 104 mph.
Regarding the fit, fit all the parts together and glue before filling with foam. I discovered a long time ago when I used spray foam behind a door frame that it can expand and greatly flex the space. In my case, the small amount I used was enough to where I couldn't get the door open until I took a saw and cut out some of the foam. It looks like the molds did fairly well, but more internal bracing near connection points will help. I used to have to do that with huge fiberglass subwoofer boxes so they didn't flex under use.
for the cavitation problem try playing around with toroidal propellers
I think you need cones at the end of the props to smooth out the turbulence...there's a vortex in the middle probably massively affecting thrust
Very cool , we want more cracking vids like this - inspiring others to try science and engineering, and make the world a better place, one 3d printed boat at a time ^^
Consumer off the shelf printers have come really far recently. There's so many cheap extremely fast good quality printers now.
I believe hydroplanes like to be on plane and usually require a lot of power to overcome their inital faults of be a drag in the water they also use forward hard "fins" to stabilize once they get out of the water since they are designed to take advantage of the moving air goodluck it was a treat to watch
3d printed parts can shrink slightly depending on the plastics used, But what seems more likely to me is that they warped. Especially since you mentioned the foam got up to 80°... It's also possible your printer is not quite dialed in and leveled. You'd have to check the dimensions of the parts as they come off the printer to see where they went wrong
You need to change the location of your props. They are directly behind the flat surfaces at the stern on both sides. This causes a backwash , and will cause your rops to cavitate. If you will place them in the center, and below the stern plate with fins to break up any backwash, it will get the speed you need.
😂😂😂 love the good old British humour and spirit chaps .
Nice design, discrepancies in the printed parts on assembly may be down to thermal shrinkage and / accumulation of misalignment on assembly and possibly storage before assembly. Maybe print a couple of removable braces in the cad drawing for part stability .
Dry fit in larger sections and place on a flat surface and use X/Y axis datum marks an a sheet of plywood.
Alternatively print some internal flanges so it can be glued and bolted together.
Or an internal stepped flange .
Jet drives would be the way to go but I’m just going off the speed and performance of a jet ski and they use jet drives for a reason.
Cavitation is probably down to the prop diameter and pitch RPM range .
But again I’m just going off what fast boats and RC boats use and I’m no specialist.
Put adjustable 2 trim tabs on the stern this may enable it to get on the plane easier.
To be fair I could of built a pattern / mold and made a carbon fibre one in the time it took to print and draw this but that’s not the point of your video so fair play .
It’s all about having fun while experimenting and educating oneself .👍
I think a Sharrow propeller something you should look into.
It might be ventilation and not cavitation. Ventilation occurs when the prop sucks in air. It looks like it might be sucking in quite a bit of air. If it is cavitation, you're going to need to redesign the propellers or lower your output. There's a lot of data on using toroidal propellers online. You could even redesign it to be more like a Jet Ski Impeller where it pulls water in through a tube. Lot's of other options too probably. Add jet turbines above the water. Lol
Its not cavitation, its ventilation of the propellers. As the boat speeds up, air is being sucked down the vertical transom.
Well the motor mounts have a giant square face interrupting the flow before it even gets to the prop, maybe try streamlining the motor pods?
its worth checking how hot those engines and battery get
At some size heat expansion can add up to all the gaps you have there
Tom AND Sam?? What a collab!
Really nice project, build your dreams !
Heatcreep may cause deformation of parts , look into welding steel to get an idea on solving this ;)
Looks like your props are pulling air , maybe due to the shape of your hull.
Try repositioning those more to the center or even further out ..
keep up the good work and please do not drown yourself XD
This really an interesting way to make legit small water craft like a jet ski. how much did you spend in filament and 3d printers?
3d printer ~ $500
PLA $17 x 50 boxes = $850
PLA Gloop ~ $35
Expanding foam ~ $75
~ $1,500 to make a small custom boat frame 🤔
Also like a lot of 3D printing, 3D modeling, and Assembly
Wonder how that compares to other DIY methods
@@computermdms considering you can make a plywood hull up in about a day if youve built them before... ffs, i made one from a packing crate. just cus i was too cheap to go buy the plywood sheet....
@@paradiselost9946 yeah your right, the real advantage is that a complex hull is not more expensive but that doesn't seem to be worth it 🤷🏼♀️
Maybe on next reiteration have a place to mount a traditional outboard motor ascwell as the electrics ...keeos options open for success.
I think rctestflight has some good videos going over optimizing props for his boat amd reducing cavitation amongst other things. Might be worth checking out
Nice! Have you looked into using toroidal props?
you dont need gloop waterproof super glue works a treat
The issue of your prints not aligning is due to the auto bed leveling system on the printer. With a printer like the Kobra 2 Max, the large and thin bed on it is practically guarenteed to warp. Becuase of this warping, your auto bed leveling is having to work harder and harder to contour your first layers to the warped bed. Almost all printers with auto bed leveling will also have "Mesh Fade" setting where the printer with automatically fade from the contour of the bed mesh to flat layers (at least if your machine is square) where there are no movements in the z-axis. The problem with this is that your top layer will be flat, but your bottom layer will be just as skewed as your bed is causing the top and bottom layers to be nonparallel. I can tell by the orientation of the layer lines in the areas you had massive gaps that this is very likely the root cause of your problem. An easy way to tell is by checking your bed mesh and what sort of range you're getting from the lowest point to the highest point.
Please tell me you switched to at least a .6 nozzle for these prints. If not, I'd use one for future large projects, it'll half your print time.
What a cool build, love your videos dude keep at it!
What esc did you use on your mini boat? That was slick!
Honestly, a combination of factors, printer not being square, pla and prints in general tend to shrink/warp and / or how the model was cut up in fusion.
Pretty good build though with everything considered.
Prop cavitation
You need them lower than your back transom. Or the back face of the boat
Can mount on little pods lower like an outboard
Or in front like an inboard
Its not cavitation, but the air bubbles coming in from above
But no boats have them back there cause air bubbles
And when you get on a plane theyre out of the water
Or a hydroplane uses a jet pump so it doesnt stick down, sucks the stream up into it. Like a jet ski
You could try making it a ducted propellor
7:02 3D printers sometimes layer shift.
In this case it’s the printer, not the printer.
You need to experiment with the size and pitch of the propellers, A BLDC motor revs much more than any outboard propeller is designed for.
The motor mounts seem quite unaerodynamic. Making them taper at the rear would probably prevent the propellers from sucking in air that much.
Remind me to never have Tom Stanton review my CAD designs, lol.
Check out the possibility of 3-D printing toroidal propellers. I think they're pretty expensive to buy commercially, but even a 3-d printed toroidal propeller would have better performance than a commercial standard propeller.
the reasoning for the mishaping on the boat is because when a 3d print finishes, you gotta let it cool down or it'll shrink
I THINK you can reduce the cavitation by putting the propeller inside of a cylinder.... or at least I thought that's what I understood they were for whebn I watched a video on boats that had steerable props... but i could have understood it wrong...
BUT I would think the best way would be to slow them down... so just make them bigger... you've got plenty of power that bigger props would slow them down enough and push WAY more water.... or you could always try those new style of props that use loops instead of blades... I think Tom even tried them out.....
- ALSO I way thinking about why some prints wouyld have been been mismatched... it's probably the room temperature, humidity, and barometric pressure that day.... alone each one of these variables do affect much, but when all three are different AND you're doing such large prints I would think all three variables would make such huge swings over such a large distance - PLUS you're printing them quite fast, so they aren't going to be very accurate over so many layers.....
- I think the perfect person to ask would be James Bruton .... he does A LOT of very large prints and dowen't seem to ever have issues with this... you shoudl probably ask him
2:54 I standard go 93mm/s with my Creality Ender 3 Pro when I want it was but quality on smaller prints, so I have no idea why it goes that extremely slow in the video. Higher would work as well if there is bigger prints like like this and 500mm/s would absolutely be possible as well then. 3:00 I run my Creality faster than that as standard, so i have no idea where you got that from.
Ah! you need an SLA resin printer! No layer separations, completely water proof...
And like 4 times the cost
@@adambundy2639 You can always get more money, but you can never get more time...
@nuchbutter you just run more FDM printers... SLA is only quicker making multiples of the same small part....
@@adambundy2639 no splitting or shattering with SLA, so no need to reprint saves time and frustration in the end. SLA is way messier, however. And as you stated, expensive...
@nuchbutter a better choice of filament would avoid any splitting or shattering you speak of. There's literally companies making boats through the FDM process
Tom. teach your mate the benefits of quality audio. 👍
I think your choice of hulls is wrong.. (I raced a drag Hydro for years).. Using a hydro hull when a planing hull is more ideal..
Hydro "blows the tail" when the correct surfacing prop with adequate power "lifts" the tail.. This leaves a pair of contact patches on the front sponsons supports that front half of hull on water.. Is "on plane" but using air trapped under the hull as a lifting device (if that makes sense at all) In the end, we also use the rudder as a steering device as well as a force to hold the nose of the boat down..(pretty substantial number there)
This looks like an issue with propeller matching and motor rpm. This propeller can't absorb all of the power of the motors at those revs, so its spinning like an egg beater. Analogous to wheel spin. Try a bigger diameter prop, or a prop with a higher pitch to absorb more of the power.
Dude this is amazing!
The propellers needs to be lower and have a anti cavitation plate like on an outboard motor
maybe its due to warping, in that case i dont know how to fix it
Reduce cavitation with a cavitation plate
This is Sick! where can i get one please!!
where did you get the motors from?
Very nice project, and very entertaining video. Well done! Minor niggle - In future, if possible, please can you bear in mind it's "THrust" not "Frust"...
No boat ever built has the props completely covered itself.
You can use pods, z-drives, angled shafts or (and better) switch to a jet drive.
This way you won‘t accidentally lose a hand with this very „unique“ prop placement… 😉
Some type of thermal deformation. To high internal heat in the material maybe?
you should install water jets
Nice shampoos bro 😊
I'll be nice to invest in better mic ;) otherwise, good video
great video as usual
Reduce prop cavitation by designing it with "silent" technology. Read the article about "MIT’s propeller innovation" and redesign it for tri-lobe.
Who manufactures the motors?
Flipsky 🙂
Cool project; a bit late, but id design in more of those channels, and epoxy glass fiber rods into them; and have them guide the assembly and structural rigidity of the printed parts; much like thin carbon rods are often used in model planes. Youve got those two alu tubes in there which is something; but bendable glass allows for more design flexibility to go all around the outside, and youd want them glued in there with maximum surface area if you want them to transfer meaningful load to the printed bits; just sliding them in wont get anywhere close to maximum effect. I mean it seems fine so far but I wouldnt bet a lot of money on what would happen at the first impact at speed... failure analysis always makes for enjoyable content though so there is that.
Ur props r ventilating not cavatating, try and get them deeper below the surface. Air is getting sucked down into the leading edge of the prop blades
Definitely find a model of a proven hydroplane and scale it up to fix this, and use surface piercing props
Welcome back king 👑
Hi! I have designed somthing somewhat similar like this in the past and i belive i know how to fix the cavitation on the propellers. First you need to fix the surface infront of the propellers becuse you need as good of flow as you can get when the propellers are pulling a lot of water. Secondly you might need to change the propeller to one that looks more like a supercavitating propeller with higer pitch becuse the propellers you are using are not designed for speeds of this caliber. This shoud fix the problems you were presented with. -Thomas
It's amazing that's you can 3d print a boat
did you think about using dove tail joints ?
Ow no there comes the dove tails lovers.
@@N0N0111whats wrong with joints ?
@@RussFoote
Mortise and Tenon Joint
Dowel Joint
Miter Joint
Lap Joint
Tongue and Groove Joint
Rabbet Joint
Pocket Hole Joint
Finger Joint
Dado Joint
Bridle Joint
Biscuit Joint
...
upvote for the opening 10 seconds
❤❤I love your videos ❤❤
thats sick
1:05 PLA Glue
The parts warped and lifted the bed?
Try to get better waterflow to your props. Only half of your prop sees the water. Maybe try and taper the mounting point.
Your propellers need to be under water. Look at how outboard boat motors look - they have a neck long enough for the whole propeller to be below the hull. If the water detaches from the rear of your boat (typically around 7 knots), your propellers start sucking air from above the water line and you get that nasty cavitating noise.
Can you giv me the stl for the Foils off yor First Video?
awesome
the nacelle for the motors is blunt?
the props are intended for trawling, not high speed at all.
the props are barely submerged.
the props are sitting in the pockets formed by the nacelles and the transom.
mounting those props really looks like an afterthought... whereas its the place that all the power is applied and should be the FIRST design consideration... you can get any piece of junk to fly/plane (no different to aircraft really) as long as it can apply power properly, be it air, water, or dirt... and use it. a certain prop works one way, another prop works differently... whats the ideal rpm of the props, what rpm do the motors actually do?
water is heavy. water flows in very predictable lines...
its well worth experimenting with a canoe before attempting a "planing" hull... seems to be a serious misunderstanding of getting power to the water, and how water flows in general.
good luck finding surface penetrating props at approx 6" diameter... another 3d project along with some casting in aluminium, maybe?
anyway... shaft/cable drive, get the motors inboard and out of the way, thin fins to the props held out on skegs.
get rid of the RC nonsense. use proper speed controls with a proper throttle lever.
impellors 👌
You want to look at surface piercing propellors