Frag grenade in my opinion is a better high explosive against bugs because most of the time you don’t need that much damage to kill a hoard of enemies and the frag has 5 instead of 4 and the fuse time makes it more manageable
Bro just bring one of the extra nade armors and you have 7 frag grenade better utility, better hoard clear and more bombs than grenade pistols it's just too good
yeah when it comes to bugs, you really only need medium armor pen when it comes to primaries, secondaries and nades (unless using thermite). then save your heavy killers for your strats (or thermites). this is why i was surprised he ranked verdict below senator and bushwacker. I'd probably want to stick verdict in S tier. its honestly the 3rd or 4th best secondary on bugs behind nade pistol, crisper and maybe dagger depending on your preferences. its good for hive guards and bile spewers, its got 10 rounds in a mag, 8 spare mags, staggers hunters which is good for when they jump at you, good handling. its amazing to use if youre using any light pen primary
When using the reprimand, I highly recommend using it in first person, it's a lot easier to manage the recoil than in third person. I've had some success recently with the frag grenade, just using it to initiate on small clusters of bugs and for closing bug holes. With almost all primaries and secondaries being viable, it means you can afford to take a loadout without depending on having to take a crossbow, grenade pistol or similar hole closers. For example, you can take a shotgun, verdict/senator and a machine gun and still be able to close holes.
The niche of the throwable knives Maplewood is that you get 20 pockets STUNS (but these stuns do a lot of damage and one shot warriors in the head). There was times where i could 1v3 STALKERS!! Each knive landing has stopping power and locks the ennemy in place for a second. Since your throwing speed is faster than that you can just prevent the Stalker or multiple of them from attacking you even better than some of the other stagger weapons do. Throwing Knives are also excellent to cover for your light pen weapons like Tenderizer or even the Stalwart Stratagem, as Throwing Knives are also really good at killing Hive guards and Brood/Alpha Commanders in a meaningful time (just aim at the head), all the while staggering them. You can also 2-3 tap Bile Spewers in the Head although its only useful when they follow you instead of vomiting and when there's only one or two. Ammo backpack has great synergy with it as each refill gives you back all 20 Knives! (You guessed it, you just have 100 Knives on yourself) My big issue with Knives tho apart from the not-so-straight and slow speed of the Knives when traveling in the air, is that you can't melee attack with them. You actually have to switch back to any weapon if you wanna hit an ennemy with your melee attack. Which is weird. Usually Helldivers hit their ennemies in the face with the Stock of their Assault Rifles, but why they wouldn't wanna hit the dam thing with the KNIFE they have in their hand is mind boggling. ARROWHEAD PLS FIX. But besides that its pretty good if you preserve them for individual or small packed Medium sized/penetration ennemies A.K.A Hive Guards, Brood/Alpha Commanders and Stalkers. Also i recommend having an explosive weapon or some 380 for bugholes as you lose the utility that the majority of grenades have. But overall if you play fast objectives and you dont really wanna kill the bugs rather stagger and push 20 of them away from you at the cost of your 4 grenades (and if you use weapon/stratagem that can deal with bugholes) then and only then the Knives are still deserving of at least B tier IMO. Just consider them as the only fast "throwable" in the game that grants you immediate stagger, and with 20 uses per refill. Or when you pop an Alpha COmmander's head and you wanna prevent it from hitting you, just throw one! Now lemme know what you think of it and try to make it work better than going Rambo with them! If you switch around your tools enough and use them efficiently they still come in clutch a lot! Just don't waste Knives or over-extend your presence against even a decently low number of ennemies. Works really good with: Stalwart, Crossbow, Tenderizer, Reprimend, Knight, Eruptor, Crisper, Halt, Redeemer, and the flamethrowers. Pin comment to spread awareness! (if you could be so kind) I suffered a lot trying out Knives at the start and now reap the rewards when using them right. TRY THEM OUT DUDES!
Interesting; I've thought that the 20 throwing knives would function more as a second sidearm (if you run the grenade pistol, for example) and this seems to be true from your comment. I didn't know they had any stagger, and any way to deal with Bile Spewers when you're running a light pen primary is very welcome. I'll have to try them out. If they did more melee damage as another bonus, I would love that.
Incendiary Breaker I have a hard time agreeing with it's placement being at S tier. I think it's great for distance enemies/chaff, but it doesn't kill certain enemies fast enough up-close that put you in danger(stalkers, alphas, etc.) unless you hit their heads, which isn't always ideal to make work in all situations. it doesn't stagger on enemies and on top of all that it lacks ammo. But many people still put it S tier so maybe it's just me. What do y'all think?
I agree. I think stagger is a really important stat in the game. Especially for bugs where they come close and personal and u need something to push them away or at least stagger them so u can get some distance
I also think it has lost a bit of its lustre after the nerf and the super helldive introduction. It's not really strong enough to deal with hordes of commanders, spewers and guards. It's also too slow and wasteful against impalers, where it can be nice to just kill them with a primary if available.
I can't do bugs without the blitzer...nothing else has stagger, medium pen, AND infinite ammo. Nothing else can just continuously keep a wave of bugs off of you, how is it not S tier?
Take the blitzer with the med pen guard dog and you just become a crowd control and crowd destroying machine. I almost always take these two together when Im not focused on running anti tank things. Its an absolutely amazing combo.
he explained it's because it has targeting issues when there are bushes/dead bodies/terrains/etc. plus it doesn't ALWAYS hit the weak points of enemies, like stalkers, which can take 4-5 shots to kill with blitzer just because it automatically targets its body parts instead of it's head(which would 1 shot). you can't control where it targets enemies so for that reason it's not always reliable. He mentioned in another video that if they fix the targeting that it would be S tier. also it has limited range so that's a plus with its targeting issues as well.
Blitzer performs poorly when there's lots of corpses (which is like always during a breach or when pushing a nest). The low rof has gotten me killed many times as well. It's also bad vs bile spewers, although with the new loyalist this isn't as much of an issue now. Even vs stalkers I'd rather have a halt or cookout. The halt can more easily stun multiple targets, has a longer stun duration, and can stun chargers. The cookout is super good for chaff, or even mediums in a pinch. They offer so much more utility over the blitzer, and this is just my opinion, but they are much more fun to use as well. I love being able to infinitely fire with rounds reload. Yes, they are ammo hungry, and without supply pack you have to use your shots more sparingly, but I'm fine with that.
@@mango1439 You can just move away from the corpses, push through them. Move around them, or the terrain. I agree its annoying but its not enough to put me off the weapon. Offering so much more utility? meaning that the halt can stun chargers? the thing i can do with a stun grenade? the halt stun doesnt do dps, so while you are stunning stalkers, or whatever, you are also not doing damage to it, unless youre running a guard dog. The cookout doesnt offer more utility than the blitzer, if anything its less. Less pen, less cc spread. Just fire damage. That doesnt check out. Everyone is gonna have their own opinion and thats valid but I dont agree with the utility thing.
my problem with the reprimand isnt even the ammo capacity, it just has an insanely long reload time for an SMG, it just accentuates the limited ammo. still solid, but man i hate having to constantly backpedal just to reload one magazine
If you're used to the HMG's recoil and to control it, you can use any other guns no problem, like the Reprimand, Carbine and Knight. Pull trigger and just move the mouse down as you hold, and pay attention to the circle, with enough practice you can shoot accurately for longer bursts with less ammo wasted.
I would probarly put Dominator to B-tier just because it requires specific armor and support weaponds to make up for it’s downsides. Hunters constantly attacks you from your exposed flanks and Dominator’s ”normal” buss driving handling speed isn’t going to help with these fast jumpers. It also takes great amount of time to stabilize the gun if you get flinched. On the Terminid front Blitzer doesn’t have this same issue and it does dominators role much more effortlessly compared to it. Dominator is still one of the best Automatons primary weaponds out there and it doesn’t have to worry about close range combat nearly as much. It feels good to use even with out the peak physique armor, because you have time to handle the gun.
The new SMG is very good against the bugs, but very difficult to use against the bots. The primary reason being it has quite a bit of bloom, making me miss my shots even though my crosshair is clearly on a grunt that’s calling in a drop. Another issue being it’s fast damage fall off. I’d say it’s just an adjudicator with better close quarters capabilities, let it be one-handed, and I think all the stats would make up for that.
I don't really have issues using it on bots, in fact I find it really strong as it can deal with Devestators very effectively and can kill reinforced striders from the front. Try it in first person, the recoil is a lot more manageable.
Disagree with Torcher being S. It is problematic against hunters and super weak against alpha warriors since both can survive long enough through the fire to get an attack or two in. Alpha warriors can be everywhere since spawning alpha commanders stay around 50 meters away. Torcher is S for d7 and lower, but falls off fast above that. Also disagree with frag grenades not being at least A. They liquify just about everything on the ground with explosive damage alone and have shrapnel as a kicker. The extra grenade is questionably useful outside of closing medium nests, but gaining an extra grenade from supply packs means getting 12 frags vs 8 others out of a supply backpack. I don't really want more shrapnel damage because the shrapnel already breaks any limb and is lethal to helldivers on a headshot.
Pair it with the 3round shotgun if you need to push back stalkers and hive commanders. Favourite loadout at the moment is xbow, bushwacker, guard dog and the Qcannon (choose whatever 2 other stratagems you want) Alternatively you can use whatever secondary you want (redeemer or laser pistol) then use the throwing knives for stagger against close range stalkers, hive guards and commanders. Favourite AT loadout is the Gr8 and now you can bring 3 strats of your choice. Super strong with carrying data too as both weapons are 1handed
You are far too kind to the people using spray and pray using every bit of ammo as fast as possible. Listen up idiots who I'm referring to, this is a co-op game. if you want to play by yourself then drop by yourself, until then take one supply and be happy
A problem with the thermite is that I feel like the fuse time is too long. So while it is sticking to a charger, the charger is still running at you, and I often find myself being killed by chargers with thermites on them. I find it easier to just sun chargers and then break the wagon and then reserve the 500kg for Bts.
I think the fuse time is fine tbh, they’re already strong as is, so the fuse is a good balancing act for them. and if you really want to rely on them by themselves for all your anti tank needs, bring either an arc thrower or the halt so you can just stun the charger while the fuse runs.
I honestly cant tell you how much i love the verdict now i wanted it to be good on release it just felt like the starter pistol only bigger 😂 now it never leaves my hip i go hit man on bots when im out of primary 😂
This list is a little wild to me. DCS in a-tier, along with the jar, scorcher, and scythe!? You’re too generous with poor weapons. Let alone the bloom on the new smh is terrible. And 8 shots in the new shotty will have you reloading the whole game.
@Alsborg I mean... Sure. Why not. That might just be because the drone itself is freakin amazing. It synergizes with most main weapons very very well. It synergizes very well with most builds in fact. That doesn't make the concussive less of a turd. It's still a POS.
@@Gundolf300 I agree. Gun dog is extremely potent on its own and realistically only fails to synergize with torcher and scorcher (range and ammo respectively). It is so good I haven't even tested the autocannon even once, because I didn't want to lose the backpack and have been trying all sorts of dog builds to see how far it goes (quite far in some cases).
"Ignite people, uh bugs..." The mantra of all incendiary breaker users.
Some men just want to watch the world burn 🔥
@Bohdisattva326 why settle for just 1 world? 😮🔥🔥🔥
@@RyeGuyGaming9001 🙏😎🔥
Nothing says "I love you" like the gentle kiss of an incendiary pellet hitting you in the face from 200m away
Thanks for the Thermite tip about throwing slightly to the right. I've had bouncing Thermites happen way too many times
Dude i love you tierlist videos, extended and detailed some of the best in the business
I'm a simple man. I see cat, I smile
Dagger is awesome for knocking down shriekers. Perfect option if your primary/support aren’t able to.
Frag grenade in my opinion is a better high explosive against bugs because most of the time you don’t need that much damage to kill a hoard of enemies and the frag has 5 instead of 4 and the fuse time makes it more manageable
With +Grenade Armour its awesome. 15 kills with a single nade
Bro just bring one of the extra nade armors and you have 7 frag grenade better utility, better hoard clear and more bombs than grenade pistols it's just too good
yeah when it comes to bugs, you really only need medium armor pen when it comes to primaries, secondaries and nades (unless using thermite). then save your heavy killers for your strats (or thermites). this is why i was surprised he ranked verdict below senator and bushwacker. I'd probably want to stick verdict in S tier. its honestly the 3rd or 4th best secondary on bugs behind nade pistol, crisper and maybe dagger depending on your preferences. its good for hive guards and bile spewers, its got 10 rounds in a mag, 8 spare mags, staggers hunters which is good for when they jump at you, good handling. its amazing to use if youre using any light pen primary
Your tierlists are the ones that make more sense. Looking forward to the Bots primary list.
When using the reprimand, I highly recommend using it in first person, it's a lot easier to manage the recoil than in third person.
I've had some success recently with the frag grenade, just using it to initiate on small clusters of bugs and for closing bug holes.
With almost all primaries and secondaries being viable, it means you can afford to take a loadout without depending on having to take a crossbow, grenade pistol or similar hole closers.
For example, you can take a shotgun, verdict/senator and a machine gun and still be able to close holes.
The niche of the throwable knives Maplewood is that you get 20 pockets STUNS (but these stuns do a lot of damage and one shot warriors in the head). There was times where i could 1v3 STALKERS!! Each knive landing has stopping power and locks the ennemy in place for a second. Since your throwing speed is faster than that you can just prevent the Stalker or multiple of them from attacking you even better than some of the other stagger weapons do. Throwing Knives are also excellent to cover for your light pen weapons like Tenderizer or even the Stalwart Stratagem, as Throwing Knives are also really good at killing Hive guards and Brood/Alpha Commanders in a meaningful time (just aim at the head), all the while staggering them. You can also 2-3 tap Bile Spewers in the Head although its only useful when they follow you instead of vomiting and when there's only one or two.
Ammo backpack has great synergy with it as each refill gives you back all 20 Knives! (You guessed it, you just have 100 Knives on yourself)
My big issue with Knives tho apart from the not-so-straight and slow speed of the Knives when traveling in the air, is that you can't melee attack with them. You actually have to switch back to any weapon if you wanna hit an ennemy with your melee attack. Which is weird. Usually Helldivers hit their ennemies in the face with the Stock of their Assault Rifles, but why they wouldn't wanna hit the dam thing with the KNIFE they have in their hand is mind boggling. ARROWHEAD PLS FIX. But besides that its pretty good if you preserve them for individual or small packed Medium sized/penetration ennemies A.K.A Hive Guards, Brood/Alpha Commanders and Stalkers.
Also i recommend having an explosive weapon or some 380 for bugholes as you lose the utility that the majority of grenades have.
But overall if you play fast objectives and you dont really wanna kill the bugs rather stagger and push 20 of them away from you at the cost of your 4 grenades (and if you use weapon/stratagem that can deal with bugholes) then and only then the Knives are still deserving of at least B tier IMO. Just consider them as the only fast "throwable" in the game that grants you immediate stagger, and with 20 uses per refill.
Or when you pop an Alpha COmmander's head and you wanna prevent it from hitting you, just throw one!
Now lemme know what you think of it and try to make it work better than going Rambo with them!
If you switch around your tools enough and use them efficiently they still come in clutch a lot!
Just don't waste Knives or over-extend your presence against even a decently low number of ennemies.
Works really good with: Stalwart, Crossbow, Tenderizer, Reprimend, Knight, Eruptor, Crisper, Halt, Redeemer, and the flamethrowers.
Pin comment to spread awareness! (if you could be so kind)
I suffered a lot trying out Knives at the start and now reap the rewards when using them right. TRY THEM OUT DUDES!
This sounds AMAZING which is a shame considering I run Thermites in like all if not most of my loadouts.
Nice analysis, knives main drawback for me - they slow and harder to headshot enemies. If they fix that and add melee atack abd we golden
Interesting; I've thought that the 20 throwing knives would function more as a second sidearm (if you run the grenade pistol, for example) and this seems to be true from your comment. I didn't know they had any stagger, and any way to deal with Bile Spewers when you're running a light pen primary is very welcome. I'll have to try them out. If they did more melee damage as another bonus, I would love that.
@@sethweddle5160 ;)
Incendiary Breaker I have a hard time agreeing with it's placement being at S tier. I think it's great for distance enemies/chaff, but it doesn't kill certain enemies fast enough up-close that put you in danger(stalkers, alphas, etc.) unless you hit their heads, which isn't always ideal to make work in all situations. it doesn't stagger on enemies and on top of all that it lacks ammo.
But many people still put it S tier so maybe it's just me. What do y'all think?
I agree. I think stagger is a really important stat in the game. Especially for bugs where they come close and personal and u need something to push them away or at least stagger them so u can get some distance
I also think it has lost a bit of its lustre after the nerf and the super helldive introduction.
It's not really strong enough to deal with hordes of commanders, spewers and guards. It's also too slow and wasteful against impalers, where it can be nice to just kill them with a primary if available.
I can't do bugs without the blitzer...nothing else has stagger, medium pen, AND infinite ammo. Nothing else can just continuously keep a wave of bugs off of you, how is it not S tier?
Take the blitzer with the med pen guard dog and you just become a crowd control and crowd destroying machine. I almost always take these two together when Im not focused on running anti tank things. Its an absolutely amazing combo.
@@Nadacalypse That's exactly what I use, it's amazing. Take EATS along with it and you have 2 free stratagem slots to do whatever you want
he explained it's because it has targeting issues when there are bushes/dead bodies/terrains/etc. plus it doesn't ALWAYS hit the weak points of enemies, like stalkers, which can take 4-5 shots to kill with blitzer just because it automatically targets its body parts instead of it's head(which would 1 shot). you can't control where it targets enemies so for that reason it's not always reliable. He mentioned in another video that if they fix the targeting that it would be S tier.
also it has limited range so that's a plus with its targeting issues as well.
Blitzer performs poorly when there's lots of corpses (which is like always during a breach or when pushing a nest). The low rof has gotten me killed many times as well. It's also bad vs bile spewers, although with the new loyalist this isn't as much of an issue now. Even vs stalkers I'd rather have a halt or cookout. The halt can more easily stun multiple targets, has a longer stun duration, and can stun chargers. The cookout is super good for chaff, or even mediums in a pinch. They offer so much more utility over the blitzer, and this is just my opinion, but they are much more fun to use as well. I love being able to infinitely fire with rounds reload. Yes, they are ammo hungry, and without supply pack you have to use your shots more sparingly, but I'm fine with that.
@@mango1439 You can just move away from the corpses, push through them. Move around them, or the terrain. I agree its annoying but its not enough to put me off the weapon. Offering so much more utility? meaning that the halt can stun chargers? the thing i can do with a stun grenade? the halt stun doesnt do dps, so while you are stunning stalkers, or whatever, you are also not doing damage to it, unless youre running a guard dog. The cookout doesnt offer more utility than the blitzer, if anything its less. Less pen, less cc spread. Just fire damage. That doesnt check out. Everyone is gonna have their own opinion and thats valid but I dont agree with the utility thing.
my problem with the reprimand isnt even the ammo capacity, it just has an insanely long reload time for an SMG, it just accentuates the limited ammo.
still solid, but man i hate having to constantly backpedal just to reload one magazine
If you're used to the HMG's recoil and to control it, you can use any other guns no problem, like the Reprimand, Carbine and Knight. Pull trigger and just move the mouse down as you hold, and pay attention to the circle, with enough practice you can shoot accurately for longer bursts with less ammo wasted.
I would probarly put Dominator to B-tier just because it requires specific armor and support weaponds to make up for it’s downsides. Hunters constantly attacks you from your exposed flanks and Dominator’s ”normal” buss driving handling speed isn’t going to help with these fast jumpers. It also takes great amount of time to stabilize the gun if you get flinched.
On the Terminid front Blitzer doesn’t have this same issue and it does dominators role much more effortlessly compared to it.
Dominator is still one of the best Automatons primary weaponds out there and it doesn’t have to worry about close range combat nearly as much. It feels good to use even with out the peak physique armor, because you have time to handle the gun.
I use it all the time with no armor passive. It just takes a little pre-thought when you’re lining up multiple targets.
Funny how AC has better handling than Dominator.
The new SMG is very good against the bugs, but very difficult to use against the bots. The primary reason being it has quite a bit of bloom, making me miss my shots even though my crosshair is clearly on a grunt that’s calling in a drop. Another issue being it’s fast damage fall off. I’d say it’s just an adjudicator with better close quarters capabilities, let it be one-handed, and I think all the stats would make up for that.
I don't really have issues using it on bots, in fact I find it really strong as it can deal with Devestators very effectively and can kill reinforced striders from the front. Try it in first person, the recoil is a lot more manageable.
@ I can see why people like it. It’s just not entirely my thing, plus as I have told many people, I am a salty ballistic shield Main.
Disagree with Torcher being S. It is problematic against hunters and super weak against alpha warriors since both can survive long enough through the fire to get an attack or two in. Alpha warriors can be everywhere since spawning alpha commanders stay around 50 meters away. Torcher is S for d7 and lower, but falls off fast above that.
Also disagree with frag grenades not being at least A. They liquify just about everything on the ground with explosive damage alone and have shrapnel as a kicker. The extra grenade is questionably useful outside of closing medium nests, but gaining an extra grenade from supply packs means getting 12 frags vs 8 others out of a supply backpack. I don't really want more shrapnel damage because the shrapnel already breaks any limb and is lethal to helldivers on a headshot.
If you take the Crossbow, what do you take to compensate for close range add clear that isn't an Eagle or Orbital, in situations when you get swarmed?
Pair it with the 3round shotgun if you need to push back stalkers and hive commanders.
Favourite loadout at the moment is xbow, bushwacker, guard dog and the Qcannon (choose whatever 2 other stratagems you want)
Alternatively you can use whatever secondary you want (redeemer or laser pistol) then use the throwing knives for stagger against close range stalkers, hive guards and commanders. Favourite AT loadout is the Gr8 and now you can bring 3 strats of your choice.
Super strong with carrying data too as both weapons are 1handed
You are far too kind to the people using spray and pray using every bit of ammo as fast as possible. Listen up idiots who I'm referring to, this is a co-op game. if you want to play by yourself then drop by yourself, until then take one supply and be happy
A problem with the thermite is that I feel like the fuse time is too long. So while it is sticking to a charger, the charger is still running at you, and I often find myself being killed by chargers with thermites on them. I find it easier to just sun chargers and then break the wagon and then reserve the 500kg for Bts.
Yeah… it’s not really a problem unless you the allow the charger to run you down afterward
I wouldn't mind if it started its fuse a bit quicker at least. That way if you throw one on something, others are less likely to waste a rocket on it.
I think the fuse time is fine tbh, they’re already strong as is, so the fuse is a good balancing act for them. and if you really want to rely on them by themselves for all your anti tank needs, bring either an arc thrower or the halt so you can just stun the charger while the fuse runs.
I honestly cant tell you how much i love the verdict now i wanted it to be good on release it just felt like the starter pistol only bigger 😂 now it never leaves my hip i go hit man on bots when im out of primary 😂
Maybe we should have 40 throwing knives
Great video. But you are getting a like just because of the cat!
Breaker incendiary…. Shooting a hunter with the whole mag and not letting its fire damage do its job. Then whine to the devs why this gun sucks.
This list is a little wild to me. DCS in a-tier, along with the jar, scorcher, and scythe!? You’re too generous with poor weapons.
Let alone the bloom on the new smh is terrible. And 8 shots in the new shotty will have you reloading the whole game.
Mister Mittens🐈⬛
Out of all of these guns are there any that you highly recommend?
Tbh i just want a video on your cat so cute lol
Incendiary Breaker should get back having 6 magazines. AH was so annoying doing that.
Brother what are you smoking to call the lib pen good? It's mega ASS and does not deserve to be in the same tier as the scorcher.
Liberator concussive? Fairly good dmg?
Seriously, compared to what? The ems orbital has higher dps than this POS 😂
Use with Lib Pen Drone and Its incredible combo
@Alsborg I mean... Sure. Why not. That might just be because the drone itself is freakin amazing. It synergizes with most main weapons very very well. It synergizes very well with most builds in fact.
That doesn't make the concussive less of a turd. It's still a POS.
@@Gundolf300 I agree. Gun dog is extremely potent on its own and realistically only fails to synergize with torcher and scorcher (range and ammo respectively). It is so good I haven't even tested the autocannon even once, because I didn't want to lose the backpack and have been trying all sorts of dog builds to see how far it goes (quite far in some cases).