I would suggest that wentworth’s letter was written - not because in that moment he realized his love for her was powerful and non diminishing- but, at this moment ( upon hearing her declaration of loving longest ) he realizes how deeply sad and hurt she has been all these years and, more importantly, he realizes his love for her and the years of isolation from her have been sad and lonely years for him. Being a man of action - he boldly moves forward toward her in order to give her happiness and at the same time give himself peace and love. They are fundamentally mature and kind adults.
The "lack of conversation" in "Persuasion" is exactly what makes it my favorite Jane Austen book. The reticence is completely natural to two people for whom, long ago, all too much had been said. Only they (and Jane Austen) know what they have said to themselves about all that in the intervening years. Their pain is almost palpable. How wonderful that we have a book about fulfilled wishes for second chances!
Captain Wentworths' letter to Anne is quite possibly some of the most romantic prose in literature. "You pierce my soul". Can you imagine someone writing that to you? It would be interesting to do a breakdown of that letter.
@@DrOctaviaCox the 1995 movie version handles the letter so beautifully. It's such a simple moment but conveys so much emotion in such a quiet, understated way. I love the movie and every time he says "you pierce my soul" it just gives me chills.
Persuasion is a novel about nostalgia, regret, and of the path not taken. It is also about growing from experience and of second chances. It is my favorite Jane Austen novel, and as Jane Austen is my favorite author, it is my favorite novel. There is a melancholy beauty to it, an almost lyrical quality, different from her other novels. It is a more mature love story.
I think it shouldn't be read until the reader is at least 35. By then you know a thing or two about why you can break up with someone even if you love them, that you both might have some growing up to do before you can be together.
@@joyejohnsonauthor it's like Georgette Heyer's "A Civil Contract" in that regard. Not to be enjoyed when one is young, it's a novel for the more (emotionally and physically) mature reader. Don't despise me for bringing in Heyer here!! Try this one. It's heartbreaking, in the same way as "Persuasion". It's not a pot-boiler.
@@Happyheretic2308 I love Georgette! She may not be as deep as Austen (very few are, after all), and her ideas about “masterful men” very outdated, but depend on her for a good time! At least all of her characters and plots are distinct from one another, unlike the romance novels written these days, so lacking in originality and creativity.
I agree with you completely, Barbara. It wrenches the heart to think of Anne's regret over her decision, contrasted with the family dysfunction she has to deal with. It is the best novel.
The description of Anne meeting Mr. Wentworth is so fluttered and scattered. It describes as much detail someone would retain when they meet with an ex lover and is very distracted by their own thoughts and feelings. I empathize so strongly with Anne and remember feeling self-conscious, embarrassed, fearful and disconnected in a similar time. I hadn't realized when I read it that the words Austen chooses are so brilliant in exciting this sympathy in the reader. I even felt very anxious as you read it.
Exactly, Zaneel! It's so beautifully constructed. It reveals nothing practical (i.e. we have no idea what was actually said), but conveys exquisitely the agitation of the moment and the way that one remembers such episodes afterwards (i.e. the sense impressions).
@@DrOctaviaCox Yes, in her heightened emotional state, Anne would probably not have even registered what the conversation was actually about! Austen's non-reporting of the dialogue beautifully reflects that.
I think Anne is definitely the easiest Austen Heroine to Empathise with Fanny and Catherine and Marianne are much more immature, Emma always so selfcentred and Elizabeth and Elinor more analytical than emotional in their reactions. I always felt they don't need to talk they got to know each other well the first time and don't need to be entirely verbal to communicate.
To me, Persuasion is the most modern of Austen's novels because of how it shows how Anne is feeling. I can put myself in all the positions Anne has been in and remember times feeling as awkward or nervous or sad or hopeful as she does throughout the book.
Anne's anxiety about seeing Wentworth again and her response, "It's over. . ." reminds me of Jane Bennet's response to seeing Bingley after their separation, both cases of course the result of misunderstandings. Jane says now that they have met again, she will be perfectly comfortable with him.
Great comparison, Meg. Jane Bennet claims, just as Anne Elliot tries to persuade herself, that they will now meet "only as common and indifferent acquaintance" (ch.54). To which my response is the same as Lizzy's: "Yes, very indifferent indeed,” said Elizabeth, laughingly..."
One detail from the scene where Captain Wentworth was writing his letter that has always struck me, as an historian of 19th-c writing implements, is that when he dropped his pen, that side of the room must have been extremely quiet for Anne to have heard. Try dropping a quill and see how loud it is, even on a bare wood table. There were metallic pens in wooden pen holders at the time, but they were fairly rare and quite expensive. It's unlikely the pen available at a hotel would have been one. This is one of those details that would have signaled to contemporary readers both the quiet nature of her conversation with Captain Harville, as well as how much attention Anne still had for what Captain Wentworth was doing. The other example of a writing implement signal I can think of in Austen is Miss Bingley's bragging that she mends pens quite well. At the time, mending pens was seen as a disagreeable and difficult task that few did well. You read many complaints about it, and it is a major justification for the adoption of the steel pen when it first became widely available in the 1820s. Her comment would have been read by a contemporary reader similar to if she had asked Mr. Darcey if she could roast and grind his coffee for him. It's not something that would be out of the realm of possibility, but would have been a rather strange thing to claim. It was also a rather personal claim. Someone like Darcey almost certainly had a particular way he liked his pens (quills) cut (broad, pointed, slanted, etc...) and her offering to cut his quill for him, was also an invitation to a further degree of intimacy, even if a minor one. Anyway, loved your discussion of dialogue (and lack thereof) in my favorite Austen novel. Will be looking for and watching your others.
Wentworth's letter is so romantic--so beautiful. Its so full of passion and longing--what Anne has been feeling all along but is finally been put into a letter like dialogue. Another aspect of Persuasion that I love is that Anne begins to bloom again as her confidence grows--its a recovery as well as a revelation.
Pride & Prejudice is my favourite Austen novel, for many reasons, but I think Persuasion is her most mature, most adult love story. At times heartbreaking but with the happy ending we so want for Anne & Captain Wentworth.
What I like about re-reading Persuasion is that it is somehow a quiet book. As if it was a reflection of Anne Elliot herself. Which is why the letter of Wentworth, to me, was a perfect closure (or shall we say beginning) to their story. It is at that moment that I started to wonder if, for all that we saw from Anne's perspective, how Wentworth was equally affected but had his pride cover him like a coat of armor. In truth, I find it almost unfair that we get to see him squirm only for a little bit until that culminating moment at Union Square. Over all though, it's a lovely book. Much more peaceful to read than any of Austen's novels.
For me it makes perfect sence. It is very sensible how she arranged this novel, which is different to her others, because it takes place years after one of our lovely caracters was persuaded into not accepting the others proposal. They only met again by chance. She is full of regret and dull heartache of her lost love, but of course he doesn't know that. It's a bit of a delicate situation. Nobody is to know about the nature of their former acquaintance, so their interactions are brief and he is looking for a wife, but not in her. They're done talking and know each other very well, or so he thought. He is now listening and looking, convincing himself, that she is still the same - prone to persuation and their love in the past. He is still watching though, comparing her to the person he knew and his ideals. What he is finding out through her actions and how she speaks to others is, that she is still the one for him, but denies it. When he is ready to admit it to himself and luckily still unattached, he is meeting her in public and is confronted with Mr Eliot and with rumors about a possible attachment between those two. An attachment who is also rumored to be made official soon and one her family would welcome. With their history, almost misunderstandings and former silence between them, a letter seems right and of course they would understand each other without words. Sorry, but I'm not native to English, it's my third language and I hope I could make what I wanted to say intelligible.
I’m a bloke who’s not an avid reader of novels but I love JA . Have read Sanditon and Lady Susan have read all her books several times and have copies of all the movies. I watched “Clueless” , loved it without realising Cher was based on Emma my favourite heroine
Persuasion is my favorite Austen novel by far. Maybe because I'm very introverted and don't enjoy talking, especially to people I don't know? Also, in Persuasion the sea is so prominent, I love that.
While it is obvious that Anne is full of regret about breaking off her engagement to Wentworth, it is not a regret that she allows to cripple her. She does engage, I think skillfully, in conversation with many characters like Lady Russell, the Admiral and Mrs. Croft, the Musgroves, Mrs. Smith, even the treacherous William Elliot, and her impossible Father and sister. She is a calm woman in the midst of a hurricane and capable of resolute action as when she takes charge of the situation when one of the Musgrove children is injured or when Louisa Musgrove has her accident. Her compassionate conversations with Benwick over his loss also show she is an exceptional communicator when she chooses. These qualities catch Captain Wentworth's eye and reawaken in him the love that he once felt for her. Maybe Jane Austen was trying to show that actions can speak louder than words.
I have always loved Persuasion. Anne's self-knowledge is such a contrast with Emma, especially, and also with Lizzy until after she reads Darcy's letter of explanation. Anne regrets her own weakness in having listened to Lady Russell and rejected Wentworth, yet she doesn't blame Lady Russell, she only blames herself. Quite a contrast to Emma, who is so blithely ignorant of her own poor judgement until Knightly confronts her at Box Hill. Another thought: the fathers in Austen's novels are not exactly strong characters---they differ in degrees of silliness, but none are helpful or especially kind to their daughters. (Lady Catherine says "Daughters are never of much consequence to their fathers") How much of Austen's feelings for her own father are reflected in these characters?
The representation of fathers in Austen's novels is interesting: from the indolent (Mr Bennet [P&P], Mr Woodhouse [Emma]), to the overbearing (Sir Thomas Bertram [MP], General Tilney [NA]). Perhaps Mr Morland is the best (even though his name was Richard)?
I'd love to hear your thoughts on parents in Austen's work. She seems frankly contemptuous of nearly all of them. Do you think this is a radical departure from depictions of families in literature?
@@DrOctaviaCox this reminds me that there’s hardly a clergyman reflected in a sympathetic light in Austen’s work even though her father was a clergyman himself. Could this treatment of the clergy, coupled with Austen’s depiction of fathers a collage of the character of her own father perhaps?
@@owamuhmza Edmund Bertram, Henry Tilney (my personal favorite of Austen's love interests), and Richard Morland are all sympathetic clergymen (or future clergymen). I expect her experience with a father in the church led her to see the clergy more completely as people with the breadth of human character represented. For every Henry Tilney, there is a Matthew Collins.
I think that Persuasion is much more based on the actions of the characters instead of the dialogue. The turning point is Louisa jumping and falling, an action. Compared to Emma, when she insults Miss Bates during a conversation, in a novel, like you said, based on conversation. Captain Wentworth sees Anne jump into action, and sees her behavior, which contribute to a confession of feelings. When Anne sees Captain Wentworth and his behavior, his actions, before and after Louisa’s accident, they speak volumes to her and move their relationship further.
That’s a really good point, Alexandra. We might also think of Wentworth, symbolically and literally, dropping the pen (“It was nothing more than that his pen had fallen down” (c.23)) when Anne and Harville are having their conversation about men and women (“Men have had every advantage of us in telling their own story. Education has been theirs in so much higher a degree; the pen has been in their hands” (c.23)). And the whole story is precipitated by action and activity - the Elliots have to leave Kellynch and move to Bath. So, yes, actions are important in _Persuasion_ (as compared to, as you say, _Emma_ , which is almost characterised by _in_ action). But we must also consider the importance of Anne’s internal monologue. Much of the narrative consists of Anne’s self-persuasion (which is almost an internal dialogue).
Hi Alexandra. I just thought I'd let you know that I've made a new video responding to your comment, which you can watch here: ruclips.net/video/TFHy9DKr3BI/видео.html Thanks again for watching and commenting!
I love that Austen uses the internal drama inside the heroine’s head. Many of us have all sorts of drama going on internally. I also LOVE that Austen uses a mature “older” couple ( if 27 years old can be considered older’) but not first love, older but wiser people with more experience and certainly some disappointments and sadness under their belts.
I have always loved Persuasion for how unique it is, the entire story revolves around a moment in Anne's and captain Wentworth's lives that makes the story quite special. Though if I am honest, because of how amazing Jane Austen is as a write, I often wish that the book included them meeting, falling in love, and the first separation too, regardless of how special having just this part of their story makes the book
I think Austen deliberately _did not_ include the early romance. Austen is an experimental writer, and I think the early story was just too conventional and too much in keeping with general novelistic cliché. Hundreds of novels have been written about young, impetuous love that is disapproved of by the family. The later story is something new - as you say, it's unique.
@@DrOctaviaCox I agree, I do think it adds a lot to the value story in the end. I just love Austen's work so much, that I always wish there was more in every story. I would have happily stuck around to read about Mazy marring her clerk and Kitty her clergyman. It would probably not have been the best idea, continuing the story so much, I just always wish there was a bit more to read when it comes to Jane Austen ahah
I'm sure you're not alone in feeling that! - Hence why there are so many sequels, prequels, continuations, etc. Clearly her own relatives felt so too, as Austen's niece Anna wrote a continuation of _Sanditon_ .
If you are looking for more Austen material then her juvenilia is fab too. (Recently published as 'Jane Austen: Teenage Writings' by Oxford University Press.)
Persuasion also varies from the other stories because Anne Elliot and Captain Wentworth are the only couple who have already fallen in love. The relationship broke not because they didn't love, but because Anne succumbed to the persuasion that she should not marry Frederick Wentworth. They both still loved. Yet it's understandable that her break with him and the subsequent 8 years could have changed his feelings. She still knew she loved him. And I think his actions and dialogue with others showed that he still loved her but still felt the hurt. So this love story is about "Does He Still Love Me/Does She Still Love Me" so the dialogue with others will be much more revealing, as will looks between them.
But also Ann is a very different character to Lizzie and Emma - she's overlooked and largely unheard at home, and used to a much more internal self-reliant and unromantic existence. She is so aware of her father's and sisters' follies and flaws, and tries to be ever proper, conscientious, and diplomatic. Her only friend is actually her mother's friend who holds an aunt/godmother role, and then belatedly the old school friend she lost touch with - who also looked after her following her mother's death. Everyone else is either an embarrassing blood relative (dad & sisters), a family friend who she ends up having to defend those family members to/field complaints about, or just past of the local community and not important enough to require a name. She's clearly an introvert while Lizzie and Emma were extroverts - although even the extroverted could find the endless conversations with her family (blood and in-laws) exhausting, I'm sure! 😵
@@DrOctaviaCox I love Persuasion and I like to listen to her thoughts. That is partly because I kept a diary when I was young where I described things that happened between me and people I was interested in. There was not much conversation either but descriptions how I might have seen the person, where he might suddenly have appeared and what that made me feel.
As someone who has only recently read Persuasion for the first time, what I've enjoyed is watching Anne and Capt Wentworth act in such proper, noble, and self controlled manners despite their (potentially) inappropriate feelings. Some might say that this shows the repression of the time, but personally I marvel at such excellent maturity, self mastery and consideration for others. Anne particularly is always virtuous, seeking to serve and be useful and helpful to others, and she is a wonderful heroine.
I think the differences in dialogue speak to young/new love vs. old/established love. Before Anne left Wentworth we are to believe that they had had many secret conversations. And in the end it wasn't enough. So that later we see the deeper connections and that happiness in marriage is dependent on oneself to mean our words.
It is not surprising that Anne is a woman of so few words, even with the man she loves. As the middle daughter who has been essentially rendered invisible by her silly father, her domineering older sister and her self-centred younger sister she has never had a voice in the family. If she were to ever lash out at the injustice of their insensitive treatment towards her, she could be overwhelmed by the depths of her own rage; silence is her defence against ever losing control. She suffers in silence like many woman do, even today. She has learned a silent, nuanced manner of communication in her relationships with others while she sorts out her own thoughts and feelings by herself.
Indeed Sheila - very well put. Anne Elliot has, in effect, been trained by her family to be silent. As we learn in the very opening chapter, Anne "was nobody with either father or sister; her word had no weight, her convenience was always to give way -- she was only Anne" (ch.1). And perhaps we should remember also that silence is not acceptance, as Anne Elliot shows throughout the novel.
@@srkh8966 Anne is not only the only one with sense, she is also the only one with morals and principles in that family. It was her principles that led her astray in the first place - being over-persuaded and thinking she ought to be guided by her mother's friend, but that was wrong.
It’s great that you pointed out the lack of conversation between Anne and Wentworth in this video. They are both resigned to their past and don’t want to allude to it in any way . But circumstances keep throwing them in each other’s way and they gradually realise that their feelings are mostly unchanged. Anne feels there’s no hope left and Wentworth is a bit angry and resentful. And this theme lasts throughout the novel, only taking a positive turn at the very end.
Yes, as if they both are too afraid to _start_ talking! They communicate far more physically than any of the other Austenian heroes and heroines, I think.
@@DrOctaviaCox I dont think Wentworth was resigned. He says he was angry, and that he courted Louisa out of spite, more or less. But he couldn't see her in her circle and not realize how she shone in intelligence, morals, sense, temperament - she is an almost silent demonstration of her own worth.
@@DrOctaviaCox Well, we are told that there HAD been a time when they would have spoken to each other almost exclusively... the break up, Wentworth's resentment, and even Anne's acknowledgement of her still existing feelings would necessarily make them avoid each other... but at Lyme Regis, they do start to talk again - not "small talk" but decisive, again, he starts to depend on her opinion & her decisions... then again in Bath, their conversation in a very public place - an in full view of Anne's family - although not long, is enough for Anne to immediately make sense of Wentworth "returning" feelings... those two are meant to "understand" each other... and finally, although we are not told the whole content... the conversation... the intimate conversation... is renewed when they go for a physical walk... and a "walk through the past"... and review what brought on an "estrangement" that should never have been... so, yep, I agree, they do not talk for a large part of the novel... but we see how, step by step, the connection is fully re-established and when the novels closes, the conversation & the intimacy is back to where it had been 8 years earlier.
Thank you for making this video. Persuasion has always been my favourite Austen novel, but I've never quite understood before how it was done that it feels so deep and tender. Brilliant!
Jane Austen’s most beautiful prose. The most mature of all her novels. Anne sharing her interior feelings, really touches the heart. I loved Pride and Prejudice there is quite a lot there to make us laugh. Persuasion is quite different. Excellent analysis Dr. Cox thank you so much!
This is so great! It made me think that the lack of dialogue helps develop this theme of distance in the novel. How even when they are back in the same location, they are just as emotionally distant as when Captain Wentworth was at sea.
thank you for sharing this video! i finished reading persuasion earlier this year and found it very different from other austen novels as there was no work to be done for the leads to fall in love. if they spoke so freely to one another as darcy and lizzy the novel might have ended much earlier, but instead we see this lovely hesitation between two people who have deep feelings for one another and yet act less than strangers. living in the internal thoughts of an older protagonist so wise and poised yet so doubtful and full of regret made me just as unsure of wentworth as she was. honestly the novel made such a good case for anne's goodness of character that i'm glad they reconciled in the end :)
I think part of the idea is that since Ann and Frederick know each other of old, we can take the "getting-to-know-you" part of the relationship as read. It's evident that in their previous encounters, they had come to know each other quite well.
I like the growth of Frederick and Anne's love, self belief and constructive reflection shown through not just the relationships and interactions but also in their solitude and withdrawal. Over the (approximate) 6 months of them seeing one another for the first time in years they both change for the better and learn alot about themselves and the other. They mature so much between seeing each other again and reconciling. Finally, after many years, all their feelings and angst must be dealt with and overcome.
Being able to communicate well and understanding each other can't be overestimated, I remember my first interaction with my bf on a chat, just written text, nothing else and I had goosebumps because I immediately realized we understand each other really well. Anne and Wentworth know they have that from their previous relationship, it doesn't need to be established.
I had the feeling as I read Persuasion for the first time, and still have it, that although they hardly ever speak now, years ago they had spoken a lot and poured out their hearts to each other. They had found great companionship and connection in their talking and had been completely honest with each other and understood each other. There was nothing they couldn’t say to each other. Perhaps that was why Frederick was SO hurt and his pride was SO damaged. They were great together yet she turned him down because she didn’t trust him or herself enough. She trusted Lady Russell more than him or herself. They had something fabulous and we’re truly happy and she let Lady Russell wreck it, or she allowed herself to listen to Lady Russell enough that she was swayed and wrecked it. I could never like Lady Russell even though she does care for Anne when her own family don’t. I don’t like it at the end of the novel where Anne justifies herself for doing what Lady Russell wanted. I don’t justify it. But after all their hours and hours of talking when they were young and happy no wonder they can’t talk now. He because he would only want to say How could you? And she because she knows her excuse isn’t good enough.
It’s interesting how for something written in Regency England the romance in Persuasion always reminds me so much of romance in Japan, and Japanese movies/drama. Often very little is said. You have to ‘read the air’ and everything is conveyed in looks or other ways unspoken, or internal dialogue. Even the confession by letter is part of it. I wonder if Persuasion has ever been adapted for cinema in Japan? It would be interesting to have a search around and see.
This was a lovely find as I am currently re-reading Pursuasion, a version with bits and pieces of designed extras included in sleeves at different points in the book. I'm so glad I found you in 2020! Your work is appreciated and enjoyed
Enjoyed some other comments. Yes, all that "falling in love" dialogue was said "before". Jane Austen is taking for granted that her readers know about "all that", either from stories, or their own experience, and is getting into what happens to real people after "all that". She's interested in their inner events in reaction to the "before" events. Love it!
Great video, thank you! Never looked at this aspect of Persuasion. Very happy to have discovered your channel and I cannot wait to go through everything you've posted!! 💚
Always loved Anne Elliot most of the Austen bunch. I'm also an introvert and tend to look at what people do, instead of what they say. Anne and Wentworth being so in synch even after all this time is just so very romantic. I'm curious about your other literature takes!
Excellent analysis. I have been wanting more insight as to why Persuasion is such a unique and powerful novel. Didn't want the video to end. Thank you!
Persuasion is my favourite film of all time. It's because of the lack of communication that makes it special. We can feel all the emotions they feel and it is so powerful and moving. I watch the film several times a year and also occasionally listen to the audio book. My life is complete 💖😊
Persuasion is really one of my favorites. As far as Wentworth and Anne not "talking", recall that they had a perfect understanding of each other, til her family interfered. These two could in fact communicate with a look vs going on a great length like others of Austen's couples.
That is a brilliant observation. I love Persuasion and yet, I’ve never noticed the lack of dialogue between Captain Wentworth and Anne Elliot. It’s romantic as it depicts a love that’s not a new love, but an old, tested love. Maybe that’s why they didn’t need a lot of words. They fundamentally understood and respected each other. Love your channel.
Dr. Cox, I love your videos because you delve into the deeper nuances of Austin’s writings. You are able to flesh out Austen’s brilliance and craftsmanship in a way I could not express. Have you ever considered doing a video on the various movies made of Austen’s works? I’m VERY selective about which ones I like because any depiction that isn’t true to Austen’s original is ‘blasphemy’ in my opinion.
I'm not sure about that. You can 'catch someone's eye' from across a room, so it doesn't have to be as illustrated in the picture shown here, where they are close together. Lizzie could have better-than-average hearing, or only barely heard him in a way that he wouldn't have known she was listening.
@@Amcsae I had the exact same thought. I don't think it's definite that Darcy knew Lizzie could hear. Darcy is unconsciously rude because he is a socially awkward turtle. But it's not in keeping with his character or breeding to say something like that to be purposefully heard by a lady.
Even if they were close, it's supposed to be very loud and busy during the dances. So she might not have heard it even if she was sitting almost next to them.
After overhearing the opinion of Meryton folks about himself, it might have been kind of a revenge against them (like saying, if you don’t want me, I don’t want you) thinking everyone present was being of the same mind.
I think Mr Bennet understood Mrs Bennet pretty well. He was able to play verbally with her, knowing just what she was about. He knew how to tease her and talk over her head to vex her. Actually, Mr Bennet is not really a worthy character in that he ignores his family, especially the antics of the younger ones, but is also so lazy he can’t be bothered to secure their futures financially, knowing the Phillips and Gardners will take care of his wife and daughters. But, his dialogue is superb! I love his wit.
I would suggest your assessment of Mr. Bennet was not affirmed by JA. He likely THINKS he understands her, but does he? Jane implies he thinks highly of his own intellect (and of that of his first two girls) but does NOT respect (although he admires) his spouse, and he considered the younger two mostly lost causes. I suspect he struggled with Mary. Modern takes (especially the female ones) of Mr. Bennet are almost unfailingly severe but JA judged him differently. He is NOT lazy nor did he fail to provide for them, nor ignore them. He educated them to the degree they could accept, and all but Mary were attractive to most men. JA presents him as "of a type", but because he recognizes Lizzie as his superior child (she IS), he is not presented as a monster or fool, as is the senior Mr. Elliot. The greater families of all JA's principal families did what they could to see none fell through the cracks. Remember, we're looking at the genteel (if flawed) part of society (people who like to at least pretend to keep up appearances), not Bridgerton-oids, meaning women with heaving bodices, skid-plates, and anti-grass-stain guards on the backside of their frocks, and the men who pursue and abuse them.
Thoughts? I always thought that the reason that Austen didn't use dialogue between Anne and Wentworth was to show that they were so compatible and had known each other so truly 8yrs ago that they did not need to converse. There are several instances where Anne knows the truth of what Wentworth is thinking just by seeing his slight facial expressions. But they're such typical "young, inexperienced lovers"; they have such inner turmoil wondering if their old knowledge of each other is still accurate.
This was very interesting! I just finished Persuasion a few days ago and one of the things I found was that I struggled to be invested in the central romance because they barely interact throughout. I found myself longing for the quick wit and dialogue of both Pride & Prejudice and Emma. Although this stays true, I really enjoyed your analysis and points about it being a novel about Anne's interiority.
Do leave any comments that you have. Do you find the lack of dialogue between Anne and Wentworth surprising (especially given that Lizzy & Darcy and Emma & Knightley are such good sparring partners)?
It’s like all the conversations and declarations of love have already happened when Anne and Wentworth meet for the first time. But now they are meeting after breaking up and a period of separation. They probably never hoped to meet ever again. So when they do meet after so many years, it’s surprising and awkward and they don’t know what to say or feel. Their meetings throughout the novel are by chance and not due to any effort on their part and any conversation is indirect and in presence of others. But even without much interaction , both realise that they still love each other, and because of changed circumstances their attachment has a greater chance of success this time. Anne becomes hopeful again and Wentworth isn’t angry anymore and he sees that Anne is not so much influenced by others , as compared to earlier . His suspicions are confirmed after hearing her speak to Harville and he decides to take action. Maybe the lack of conversation at the end when she accepts his proposal just shows the level of understanding they still have .
I have considered Northanger Abbey and Persuasion as Austen's most Romantic novels, so not really. I always felt Anne and Wentworth "proved" their compatibility because they were able to communicate by silence, whereas the chatter seemed to be going on around them. It also fits the symbolism, because in the beginning of their courtship, it's the opinion of others which break them apart in the first place, whereas now they listen to each other. So in a way they show they're now ready to "resist" persuasion.
Do you think there could be a link between these rejected men and letters? Because they both express something by writing (granted, at different times and in different moods definitely). Darcy to explain himself, though he needed to, given he was a little at fault after that first proposal...something Wentworth never was, if anything he was more of a victim... but I couldn't help comparing them when reading persuasion after p&p
I read Persuasion right after i finished re reading P&P si the difference between the relationships was very clear. Because of the lack of conversarion i couldnt understand WHY they fell for esch other, i felt like i didnt knew him at all so i couldnt get what she saw in him, in P&P we kind of fell for Darcy with Elizabeth, we know that he changed for her, that he helped her and her family expecting nothing in return, etc. In Persuasion Wentworth does nothing (for me) to fall for him or help me understand why Anne did. Perhaps i'm missing something, if i am, please feel free to explain, id love to love the book as much as everyone does. PS, sorry for my English, it's not my tongue
It's no coincidence that Anne is the best musician of any of Austen's heroines, and she does not sing. More communication and expression that isn't verbal. I haven't looked through your complete catalog of essays, but would love to hear an analysis of music and Austen characters; she uses many characters' styles of musicianship as a way to convey information about that character (Mary vs Elizabeth, Emma vs Jane, Anne, Mary Crawford).
Charlotte Bronte famously criticised-----one might almost say disparaged-----Jane Austen's works as lacking in expression of emotion-----"She knows nothing of the passions! " Bronte, if course, failed to understand or appreciate that Austen's purpose in her writing was quite different from her own. I have always thought, however, that Bronte must never have read "Persuasion," or she could never have made such a remark. "Persuasion" is, to my mind, the Austen novel that engages with the passions most deeply and profoundly. How could Charlotte have missed that?
I loved this analysis. To be honest, I haven't read Persuasion, because I didn't find the particular romantic plot to be what I usually like to read. But, you've definitely turned my head on that! I'm going to start it once I finish my current book. I wonder what you'd think would be the reason why Darcy caught Elizabeth's eye, then proceeded to insult her in her hearing, particularly since he's been brought up with etiquette and training. Elizabeth isn't nearly his status or wealth, but she does have some station in life that seems like it would grant at least not being insulted in public. I do realize that it sets the stage for the book as a plot device, but it's mind boggling how it works out in the book.
I found myself wondering how often, in the 8 years after Anne rejects Wentworth’s proposal, she regretted acting on Lady Russell’s persuasive urging and how many times she might have imagined what it would be like, if only they were to meet again. “Two minutes preparation” and 8 years of speculation?
Perhaps I am reaching, but I see a parallel between "It is over! It is over!" and that utterance we all know, "It is finished!" And then Anne, whom disappointment, sadness, ill use (in more than one sense), and boredom had nearly killed, was eventually born anew by being useful and appreciated, first by family and then by relative strangers. (At least one of those relative strangers could be compared to Judas, as well!)
There is so much conversation between Anne and Captain Wentworth that we have not heard -- all that took place before they broke up. We understand that they had already spoken much to each other. They just needed to communicate, by the briefest look, to resume all their former confidence in each other. Darcy, on the other hand, had never had an understanding with Elizabeth, although he was gradually approaching one at Pemberley -- she had begun to value him and his regard for her. Having been surprised once by her response, he was still uncertain of her when he came back to Longbourn -- although dear Aunt Catherine, always so helpful, had unintentionally given him hope. But he had no prior understanding to resume, unlike Captain Wentworth.
Only found you today, have watched several videos whilst lying in bed recovering from the COVID vaccine. Not really poorly just pampering myself. Some would say malingering. I am going to get my Jane Austen’s out and start rereading. I have several on audible, beautifully read by Juliet Stevenson and Rosamund Pike but realise how much is missed by not having the text in front of you. Just stopping and reading a passage again and thinking about it. Thank you.
My pleasure Helen. I think the joy of re-reading surpasses first-reading! And it's the mark of a great author that they can be read over and over again, and still continue to reveal new things on each re-read.
@@DrOctaviaCox I too have just found you. I have long felt that. A good book gains so much by rereading and reading yet again. Also a good book can be enjoyed by multiple ages. As in an excellent picture book or YA. Otherwise parents would be drove batty reading to their children. There were books I read under sufferance to my children, and there were those I read with pleasure over and over again.
@@jeank9146 Very true, Jean. When I re-read The Age of a Innocence, I had a very different take on it compared with my first reading 20 years of life experience later. Al good books can/should be re-read & enjoyed over & over again.
I think it highlights that Anne and Wentworth already knew each other intimately- there is no need for verbal communication between them (but also, they both seem rather reserved characters in any case, though Wentworth can exert himself)
I think the reason Darcy insults Elizabeth when asked why he isn't dancing is that he is already attracted to her, and doesn't like that fact, and strikes out preemptively. He says what he says knowing that she is listening, knowing her attention is currently on him. That is, we are told that. I think if he had no feelings at all, he would just say what he had to say without even caring if the girl in question is listening. But here we are explicitly told that he knows it. To me, that sounds like too much care. So it's tempting to think that he *had* noticed her, but he is trying very hard to deny it to himself.
Thank you for this analysis of Persuasion--the lack of dialogue is what moved me most. I just rewatched this video after watching the new Netflix version of Persuasion. I'd love to know your thoughts on it. Personally, I liked Dakota Johnson's understanding of Anne Elliot, but that's just how I read her character when I read Persuasion for myself. I found in my reading that externally, she tried to be congenial and obliging, but internally she had thoughts and ideas and feelings that were warring with her inability to act for herself and speak her mind.
I feel like one of the primary reasons that the conversation between Anne Elliot and Captain Wentworth is so unspoken in Persuasion is because this is not the story of two people who meet and fall in love throughout the course of the story. Instead, they had gotten to know each other, and had fallen in love with each other more than 8 years ago. This story is one of two people who are already in love, who hurt each other, she by declining his marriage proposal - or breaking their engagement (I'm not sure which) , and he by walking away and not fighting for her, and who have to learn to communicate through the hurt if they want to be together. Emma is the story of two best friends coming to realize that their love for each other is not platonic. They have been having conversations with each other since Emma learned to speak. Pride and Prejudice is, of course, the story of two strangers meeting, and through the course of many conversations, learn enough about each other to fall in love. I'm sure that if Jane Austen had chosen to start the story when Anne and Frederick met, we would have been privy to their conversations which led to their love for one another.
What I love about Ann and this story the most is that in Austens other novels it seem that the men are the logical ones the women have to be shown how their opinions or behaviors are wrong but Ann is the one lady who is the teacher to the man's unjust opinions. She is the rational one. She is the just in her opinions of all around her. Even when she thinks she is losing Wentworth to Louisa she is still good in her thoughts and actions to both.
The thing about Anne's relationship with Wentworth is that all the falling in love, all those conversations of getting to know each other, happen outside the pages of the book. For the past year or two I've been struck with the fact that probably the two most romantic courtships happen before the novels begin - the other being Jane Fairfax and Frank Churchill. I love that first meeting scene - I can hear the rush of blood to Anne's head, the ringing in her ears that completely blocks out the sense of what she is hearing. She doesn't just have a quick moment to prepare for this meeting - she has had eight years.
We are often in Anne's head, but not always. In the opening chapter, for instance, we move into and out of the mind of Sir Walter Elliot (with the ironic, critical narrative voice condemning his thinking).
Anne Elliot reminds me of Fanny Price from Mansfield Park. Both lived internally, and appear invisible to their outside world. They are not striking at all. Elizabeth Bennett was vibrant, and confident. Very striking in appearance and confidence. She lacked maturity of age, but had wisdom through her intelligence. Persuasion is about the constancy of love by a woman through time.
I feel that there were two very important conversations between Anne and Captain Wentworth. The first was when they both were in the same Bath shop together, and they were discussing Louisa’s engagement to Captain Benwick. Again when they were at the concert, they spoke about Louisa and Captain Benwick, and at those times we get a hint of their true feelings, and Captain Wentworth’s indecision and change of heart.
I would be so interested in hearing what you think about Elizabeth Bennett's lies in Pride and Prejudice. I can recall two places: when she's making excuses to people about why she has to skip the dinner with the Darcys when she has to go home because of Kitty, and when she lies to her father about Lady Catherine's visit. It always struck me as important that Elizabeth lies, especially considering her extremely frank nature.
Thank you for your analysis. I've enjoyed and profited from each of your programs. Speaking of "Persuasion", I've always been curious about the character of Captain James Benwick. What do you make of Austen's inclusion of Anne's advice to Benwick to "not always read only poetry." When Anne speaks of the "misfortune of poetry" to be "seldom safely enjoyed by those who enjoyed it completely," has she become Austen's mouthpiece? In your opinion what is the importance of Benwick's character in the overall structure of "Persuasion", as well as the scene with Anne on the Comb in Volume 1, Chapter 11? Thank you!
Thank you, Tim. It's a fascinating point you raise. Austen's discussion of poetry in 'Persuasion' is well worth considering in detail. Austen’s novels are full of ‘bad readers’, and the various different ways in which readers can read badly (even if they themselves think they are a good reader - e.g. Isabella Thorpe in ‘Northanger Abbey’). ‘Persuasion’ itself opens by confronting readers with a bad reader in the figure of Sir Walter Elliot (who reads the same book, the ‘Baronetage’, over and over again in order to make himself feel better). And I think Benwick can be read as another example of a ‘bad reader’ in that he misuses poetry (not dissimilarly to Marianne in ‘Sense and Sensibility’). Benwick reads in order to exacerbate his own feelings: “he showed himself so intimately acquainted with all the *tenderest* songs of the one poet, and all the *impassioned descriptions of hopeless agony* of the other; he repeated, with such *tremulous feeling* , the various lines which imaged *a broken heart* , or *a mind destroyed by wretchedness* ”. (ch.11) Benwick reads poetry in a way that makes him feel worse rather than better, and overlooks “the duty and benefit of struggling against affliction” (ch.11). Furthermore, the text rather describes his appreciation of poetry as performative: he “looked so entirely as if he meant to be understood”. It is this that leads Anne “to hope he did not always read only poetry”. Anne herself, elsewhere, relies on poetry to ease her wretched thoughts: “Her pleasure in the walk must arise from the exercise and the day, from the view of the last smiles of the year upon the tawny leaves, and withered hedges, and from repeating to herself some few of the thousand poetical descriptions extant of autumn, that season of peculiar and inexhaustible influence on the mind of taste and tenderness, that season which had drawn from every poet, worthy of being read, some attempt at description, or some lines of feeling. She occupied her mind as much as possible in such like musings and quotations; but it was not possible, that when within reach of Captain Wentworth's conversation with either of the Miss Musgroves, she should not try to hear it; yet she caught little very remarkable. … Anne could not immediately fall into a quotation again. The sweet scenes of autumn were for a while put by, unless some tender sonnet, fraught with the apt analogy of the declining year, with declining happiness, and the images of youth and hope, and spring, all gone together, blessed her memory.” (ch.10 - i.e. the chapter previous to the chapter showing Benwick’s use of poetry) So I don’t think we should read Anne’s view of Benwick as a condemnation of poetry per se. Fundamentally, Anne uses poetry (to attempt) to reconcile herself to her feelings, Benwick uses poetry to stoke his “wretched” feelings, which Anne thinks Benwick should avoid doing for the sake of his own happiness. But “like many other great moralists and preachers, she had been eloquent on a point in which her own conduct would ill bear examination”.
@@DrOctaviaCox I find it interesting from your excerpt that Anne was distracted away from poetically enjoying her autumn view by Wentworth flirting with someone else. Then she could only be comforted with poetry of winter laments of other seasons' passing. Particularly spring. There is so much depth to Austen's writing that I miss because I'm in a hurry to read the story.
I think as a general rule one should just read texts the first time knowing that you are only reading for plot. It's only on subsequent readings (once you actually know what's going to happen) that you begin to think more about the process. Essentially, first reading = "WHAT happens?", & only on subsequent readings = "HOW it happens?"
I relate so much with Anne, she is an introvert and I would think Captain Wentworth is too. All the other heroines are far more verbose. Given they have both been hurt by their broken relationship, I don't doubt they are both very careful about being stung again.
Important to note is that Persuasion was published after Austen's death by her brother Henry, with Northanger Abbey, it was titled Persuasion by Henry, and Jane was not able to polish and edit it so much as perhaps to add more dialogue, seeing she died of tuberculosis in 1817. Perhaps if she would have lived longer it would be furnished with more, not to say it's fundamentally lacking as a novel, the narrative nature certainly adds to the tension I believe which is so characteristic of Anne and Frederick's relationship.
Yes, they didn't really speak to one another, at least in words. But they have a past. A look, any look, stabbed their hearts. Believe me, they were happy, again.
I don't think that Anne and Wentworth aren't happy! - if I gave that impression, I didn't intend to. The point of the video was to suggest that - unlike for Lizzy and Darcy or Emma and Knightley - their connection is not shown through dialogue in the novel. And this continues up until their union - he even declares himself to her in letter form. The text reads (after Anne has got his letter): "They [Anne and Charles Musgrove] were on Union Street [symbolism alert!], when a quicker step behind, a something of familiar sound, gave her two moments' preparation for the sight of Captain Wentworth. He joined them; but, as if irresolute whether to join or to pass on, said nothing, only looked. Anne could command herself enough to receive that look, and not repulsively. The cheeks which had been pale now glowed, and the movements which had hesitated were decided. He walked by her side." (ch.23) But once they are united, readers are told that "the power of conversation would make the present hour a blessing indeed ... they exchanged again those feelings and those promises which had once before seemed to secure everything, but which had been followed by so many, many years of division and estrangement". I think it's interesting that, again, readers aren't privy to the actual dialogue.
Anne's dialogue...I was surprised that calling a man a 'Dick' was an insult in Austen's time. I have since wondered if Ben Franklin's "Poor Richard's Almanac" was a nod to "Persuasion" or vice versa but I haven't checked the publication dates.
I sometimes wonder if this is a very introspective novel with the reality of women’s lives juxtaposed with the unanticipated happy ending. I mean, you know there will be a good outcome, because you know Austen, but the whole book shows such lack of feeling for AE by her family. She is cast aside and you really feel it. Then she’s only got the con artist cousin who is such a disappointment. Even Wentworth is gotten on the rebound, had the Musgrove sister not been fickle. Of all her books this one makes me feel what a dark prospect her life as a single woman of very small fortune must have been like. It’s so bittersweet.
I think there's not much dialogue because these guys already have a connection whereas Elizabeth and Darcy form one through dialogue and we are shown Emma's relationships through dialogue.
I really enjoyed Northanger Abbey, Mansfield Park and I am sure I will enjoy Persuasion also. My favorite though was P & P. I have read it several times. I might need to read S & S again though, it has been many years since I read that.
I think, Anne was able to show she was no longer influenced by others so then the two of them, Anne & Captain Wentworth, could pick up where they left off. All of their dialog had happened 8 years ago. They could see the goodness in each other & their love was still there.
No, it's not certain that Darcy knows definitely that Lizzy is listening. But the text - as you say - does make it clear that he catches her eye just before he speaks: "he looked for a moment at Elizabeth, till catching her eye, he withdrew his own and coldly said..." (ch.3)
@@DrOctaviaCox when i reread this scene, after knowing his personality at the end of the novel. i thought it was more of a, i'm talking about someone so lets look at them, moment quickly followed by a, shoot our eyes met quick look away before they find out im talking about them! kind of guilty stare that im sure we have all done. especially if told in conversation to 'not look'. plus balls were fairly noisy and while they were close enough for her to overhear, i can see how he may misjudge the distance... i guess this is something we will never know as we dont have his version of events.
@@luchia4tom134 its funny how the movies hide Lizzy and Charlotte behind something, like a wall, a sofa and what looks like bleachers in a school auditorium while Darcy speaks badly about Lizzie. I think that gives Darcy an out of thinking she can't hear them speaking badly about her.. Very embarrassing for Darcy. And I would be full of dislike for Darcy right there and then if I was in Lizzys position.
@@sharonstevek.6797 The 2005 movie does that, but the 1995 BBC is a bit closer to the text, so when Lizzy rises (to go immediately to tell Charlotte!) Darcy is shown to be full of remorse and clearly panicking that she did hear him. It's well done, but still a bit of license from the text.
Aren't we to think though, that they engaged in more significant conversation during their initial courtship eight and a half years ago? Anne is fond of good conversation and we see her engage in that quite intensely with other friendships, such as Captain Benwick, or in her discussion of the longevity of men's vs women's feelings with Captain Harville. She values these as friends because of their ability to provide such conversation. I can only imagine that that drew her to Captain Wentworth initially and what we are seeing in their lack of conversation the reserve brought about by awkwardness and resentment. As soon as this is dissolved after they are engaged they dive back into a deep conversation. For me, the lack of conversation goes to highlight the lingering awkwardness and resentment rather than a different sort of relationship to Austen's other heroines.
I try to get women to like me by not talking to them. I'm sure they appreciate it, but it doesn't lead to any attraction. "There's safety in reserve ...." Enjoying the Austen analysis, Dr. It's all those familiar puzzle pieces finding their right place. :)
People would do well to research the social mores and etiquette rules of the early 19th century before reading Austen's novels. A woman with sense did not wear her heart on her sleeve or expose herself to gossip and speculation. It would be social suicide to do so.
It feels like someone dared Jane Austin to write a book where the two main characters never speak and somehow they fall in love, in way which feels natural
I would suggest that wentworth’s letter was written - not because in that moment he realized his love for her was powerful and non diminishing- but, at this moment ( upon hearing her declaration of loving longest ) he realizes how deeply sad and hurt she has been all these years and, more importantly, he realizes his love for her and the years of isolation from her have been sad and lonely years for him. Being a man of action - he boldly moves forward toward her in order to give her happiness and at the same time give himself peace and love. They are fundamentally mature and kind adults.
Beautifully said/written.
The "lack of conversation" in "Persuasion" is exactly what makes it my favorite Jane Austen book. The reticence is completely natural to two people for whom, long ago, all too much had been said. Only they (and Jane Austen) know what they have said to themselves about all that in the intervening years. Their pain is almost palpable. How wonderful that we have a book about fulfilled wishes for second chances!
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It's my favourite, too. It's a much more mature book to Austen's others and the characters better developed (in my opinion).
Captain Wentworths' letter to Anne is quite possibly some of the most romantic prose in literature. "You pierce my soul". Can you imagine someone writing that to you? It would be interesting to do a breakdown of that letter.
Beware of anyone IRL who says stuff like that
I love the understatement of the narrative voice's observation that "Such a letter was not to be soon recovered from".
@@DrOctaviaCox the 1995 movie version handles the letter so beautifully. It's such a simple moment but conveys so much emotion in such a quiet, understated way. I love the movie and every time he says "you pierce my soul" it just gives me chills.
@@nineteenfortyeight You're right. Thanks for the reminder.
@Tracy Rowe: That right there😍
Persuasion is a novel about nostalgia, regret, and of the path not taken. It is also about growing from experience and of second chances. It is my favorite Jane Austen novel, and as Jane Austen is my favorite author, it is my favorite novel. There is a melancholy beauty to it, an almost lyrical quality, different from her other novels. It is a more mature love story.
I think it shouldn't be read until the reader is at least 35. By then you know a thing or two about why you can break up with someone even if you love them, that you both might have some growing up to do before you can be together.
@@joyejohnsonauthor it's like Georgette Heyer's "A Civil Contract" in that regard. Not to be enjoyed when one is young, it's a novel for the more (emotionally and physically) mature reader.
Don't despise me for bringing in Heyer here!! Try this one. It's heartbreaking, in the same way as "Persuasion". It's not a pot-boiler.
@@Happyheretic2308 I love Georgette! She may not be as deep as Austen (very few are, after all), and her ideas about “masterful men” very outdated, but depend on her for a good time! At least all of her characters and plots are distinct from one another, unlike the romance novels written these days, so lacking in originality and creativity.
I agree with you completely, Barbara. It wrenches the heart to think of Anne's regret over her decision, contrasted with the family dysfunction she has to deal with. It is the best novel.
The description of Anne meeting Mr. Wentworth is so fluttered and scattered. It describes as much detail someone would retain when they meet with an ex lover and is very distracted by their own thoughts and feelings. I empathize so strongly with Anne and remember feeling self-conscious, embarrassed, fearful and disconnected in a similar time. I hadn't realized when I read it that the words Austen chooses are so brilliant in exciting this sympathy in the reader. I even felt very anxious as you read it.
Exactly, Zaneel! It's so beautifully constructed. It reveals nothing practical (i.e. we have no idea what was actually said), but conveys exquisitely the agitation of the moment and the way that one remembers such episodes afterwards (i.e. the sense impressions).
@@DrOctaviaCox Yes, in her heightened emotional state, Anne would probably not have even registered what the conversation was actually about! Austen's non-reporting of the dialogue beautifully reflects that.
Absolutely. A different kind of 'realism'.
I think Anne is definitely the easiest Austen Heroine to Empathise with Fanny and Catherine and Marianne are much more immature, Emma always so selfcentred and Elizabeth and Elinor more analytical than emotional in their reactions. I always felt they don't need to talk they got to know each other well the first time and don't need to be entirely verbal to communicate.
I completely agree. Persuasion is my favorite of Austen's novels. Anne's situation is very compelling.
To me, Persuasion is the most modern of Austen's novels because of how it shows how Anne is feeling. I can put myself in all the positions Anne has been in and remember times feeling as awkward or nervous or sad or hopeful as she does throughout the book.
Anne's anxiety about seeing Wentworth again and her response, "It's over. . ." reminds me of Jane Bennet's response to seeing Bingley after their separation, both cases of course the result of misunderstandings. Jane says now that they have met again, she will be perfectly comfortable with him.
Great comparison, Meg. Jane Bennet claims, just as Anne Elliot tries to persuade herself, that they will now meet "only as common and indifferent acquaintance" (ch.54). To which my response is the same as Lizzy's:
"Yes, very indifferent indeed,” said Elizabeth, laughingly..."
I think Anne is a more mature character and a bit world weary so, she doesn’t suffer with self delusion.
One detail from the scene where Captain Wentworth was writing his letter that has always struck me, as an historian of 19th-c writing implements, is that when he dropped his pen, that side of the room must have been extremely quiet for Anne to have heard. Try dropping a quill and see how loud it is, even on a bare wood table. There were metallic pens in wooden pen holders at the time, but they were fairly rare and quite expensive. It's unlikely the pen available at a hotel would have been one. This is one of those details that would have signaled to contemporary readers both the quiet nature of her conversation with Captain Harville, as well as how much attention Anne still had for what Captain Wentworth was doing.
The other example of a writing implement signal I can think of in Austen is Miss Bingley's bragging that she mends pens quite well. At the time, mending pens was seen as a disagreeable and difficult task that few did well. You read many complaints about it, and it is a major justification for the adoption of the steel pen when it first became widely available in the 1820s. Her comment would have been read by a contemporary reader similar to if she had asked Mr. Darcey if she could roast and grind his coffee for him. It's not something that would be out of the realm of possibility, but would have been a rather strange thing to claim. It was also a rather personal claim. Someone like Darcey almost certainly had a particular way he liked his pens (quills) cut (broad, pointed, slanted, etc...) and her offering to cut his quill for him, was also an invitation to a further degree of intimacy, even if a minor one.
Anyway, loved your discussion of dialogue (and lack thereof) in my favorite Austen novel. Will be looking for and watching your others.
Wentworth's letter is so romantic--so beautiful. Its so full of passion and longing--what Anne has been feeling all along but is finally been put into a letter like dialogue. Another aspect of Persuasion that I love is that Anne begins to bloom again as her confidence grows--its a recovery as well as a revelation.
Persuasion is my favorite precisely for this internal dialogue. It's also somewhat natural because Anne is so out of place in her own family.
Yes, indeed - as we learn in the opening chapter she is "only Anne" ("only" having multiple meanings here).
Yes, Anne is certainly different to other members of her family. Her father and sisters are very class conscious.
Pride & Prejudice is my favourite Austen novel, for many reasons, but I think Persuasion is her most mature, most adult love story. At times heartbreaking but with the happy ending we so want for Anne & Captain Wentworth.
@@glendodds3824 they're very silly sisters.
What I like about re-reading Persuasion is that it is somehow a quiet book. As if it was a reflection of Anne Elliot herself. Which is why the letter of Wentworth, to me, was a perfect closure (or shall we say beginning) to their story. It is at that moment that I started to wonder if, for all that we saw from Anne's perspective, how Wentworth was equally affected but had his pride cover him like a coat of armor. In truth, I find it almost unfair that we get to see him squirm only for a little bit until that culminating moment at Union Square. Over all though, it's a lovely book. Much more peaceful to read than any of Austen's novels.
For me it makes perfect sence. It is very sensible how she arranged this novel, which is different to her others, because it takes place years after one of our lovely caracters was persuaded into not accepting the others proposal.
They only met again by chance. She is full of regret and dull heartache of her lost love, but of course he doesn't know that. It's a bit of a delicate situation. Nobody is to know about the nature of their former acquaintance, so their interactions are brief and he is looking for a wife, but not in her. They're done talking and know each other very well, or so he thought. He is now listening and looking, convincing himself, that she is still the same - prone to persuation and their love in the past. He is still watching though, comparing her to the person he knew and his ideals. What he is finding out through her actions and how she speaks to others is, that she is still the one for him, but denies it. When he is ready to admit it to himself and luckily still unattached, he is meeting her in public and is confronted with Mr Eliot and with rumors about a possible attachment between those two. An attachment who is also rumored to be made official soon and one her family would welcome. With their history, almost misunderstandings and former silence between them, a letter seems right and of course they would understand each other without words.
Sorry, but I'm not native to English, it's my third language and I hope I could make what I wanted to say intelligible.
Persuasion strikes me as being so much more intense, in a feeling sense, than any of the other novels.
I’m a bloke who’s not an avid reader of novels but I love JA . Have read Sanditon and Lady Susan have read all her books several times and have copies of all the movies.
I watched “Clueless” , loved it without realising Cher was based on Emma my favourite heroine
Persuasion is my favorite Austen novel by far. Maybe because I'm very introverted and don't enjoy talking, especially to people I don't know? Also, in Persuasion the sea is so prominent, I love that.
While it is obvious that Anne is full of regret about breaking off her engagement to Wentworth, it is not a regret that she allows to cripple her. She does engage, I think skillfully, in conversation with many characters like Lady Russell, the Admiral and Mrs. Croft, the Musgroves, Mrs. Smith, even the treacherous William Elliot, and her impossible Father and sister. She is a calm woman in the midst of a hurricane and capable of resolute action as when she takes charge of the situation when one of the Musgrove children is injured or when Louisa Musgrove has her accident. Her compassionate conversations with Benwick over his loss also show she is an exceptional communicator when she chooses. These qualities catch Captain Wentworth's eye and reawaken in him the love that he once felt for her. Maybe Jane Austen was trying to show that actions can speak louder than words.
I have always loved Persuasion. Anne's self-knowledge is such a contrast with Emma, especially, and also with Lizzy until after she reads Darcy's letter of explanation. Anne regrets her own weakness in having listened to Lady Russell and rejected Wentworth, yet she doesn't blame Lady Russell, she only blames herself. Quite a contrast to Emma, who is so blithely ignorant of her own poor judgement until Knightly confronts her at Box Hill. Another thought: the fathers in Austen's novels are not exactly strong characters---they differ in degrees of silliness, but none are helpful or especially kind to their daughters. (Lady Catherine says "Daughters are never of much consequence to their fathers") How much of Austen's feelings for her own father are reflected in these characters?
The representation of fathers in Austen's novels is interesting: from the indolent (Mr Bennet [P&P], Mr Woodhouse [Emma]), to the overbearing (Sir Thomas Bertram [MP], General Tilney [NA]). Perhaps Mr Morland is the best (even though his name was Richard)?
I'd love to hear your thoughts on parents in Austen's work. She seems frankly contemptuous of nearly all of them. Do you think this is a radical departure from depictions of families in literature?
Emma's personality and obliviousness is one of the reasons it was so hard for me to read that novel without despising Emma. She was such a silly twit.
@@DrOctaviaCox this reminds me that there’s hardly a clergyman reflected in a sympathetic light in Austen’s work even though her father was a clergyman himself. Could this treatment of the clergy, coupled with Austen’s depiction of fathers a collage of the character of her own father perhaps?
@@owamuhmza Edmund Bertram, Henry Tilney (my personal favorite of Austen's love interests), and Richard Morland are all sympathetic clergymen (or future clergymen). I expect her experience with a father in the church led her to see the clergy more completely as people with the breadth of human character represented. For every Henry Tilney, there is a Matthew Collins.
I think that Persuasion is much more based on the actions of the characters instead of the dialogue. The turning point is Louisa jumping and falling, an action. Compared to Emma, when she insults Miss Bates during a conversation, in a novel, like you said, based on conversation. Captain Wentworth sees Anne jump into action, and sees her behavior, which contribute to a confession of feelings. When Anne sees Captain Wentworth and his behavior, his actions, before and after Louisa’s accident, they speak volumes to her and move their relationship further.
That’s a really good point, Alexandra. We might also think of Wentworth, symbolically and literally, dropping the pen (“It was nothing more than that his pen had fallen down” (c.23)) when Anne and Harville are having their conversation about men and women (“Men have had every advantage of us in telling their own story. Education has been theirs in so much higher a degree; the pen has been in their hands” (c.23)). And the whole story is precipitated by action and activity - the Elliots have to leave Kellynch and move to Bath.
So, yes, actions are important in _Persuasion_ (as compared to, as you say, _Emma_ , which is almost characterised by _in_ action). But we must also consider the importance of Anne’s internal monologue. Much of the narrative consists of Anne’s self-persuasion (which is almost an internal dialogue).
Hi Alexandra. I just thought I'd let you know that I've made a new video responding to your comment, which you can watch here:
ruclips.net/video/TFHy9DKr3BI/видео.html
Thanks again for watching and commenting!
@@DrOctaviaCox is it possible that Anne speaks for the author (authoress?) when she made the declaration about men and women as writers?
@@gkelly941 I suspect Austen spoke those very words in sparring with male friends.
I love that Austen uses the internal drama inside the heroine’s head. Many of us have all sorts of drama going on internally.
I also LOVE that Austen uses a mature “older” couple ( if 27 years old can be considered older’) but not first love, older but wiser people with more experience and certainly some disappointments and sadness under their belts.
I have always loved Persuasion for how unique it is, the entire story revolves around a moment in Anne's and captain Wentworth's lives that makes the story quite special. Though if I am honest, because of how amazing Jane Austen is as a write, I often wish that the book included them meeting, falling in love, and the first separation too, regardless of how special having just this part of their story makes the book
I think Austen deliberately _did not_ include the early romance. Austen is an experimental writer, and I think the early story was just too conventional and too much in keeping with general novelistic cliché. Hundreds of novels have been written about young, impetuous love that is disapproved of by the family. The later story is something new - as you say, it's unique.
@@DrOctaviaCox I agree, I do think it adds a lot to the value story in the end.
I just love Austen's work so much, that I always wish there was more in every story. I would have happily stuck around to read about Mazy marring her clerk and Kitty her clergyman. It would probably not have been the best idea, continuing the story so much, I just always wish there was a bit more to read when it comes to Jane Austen ahah
I'm sure you're not alone in feeling that! - Hence why there are so many sequels, prequels, continuations, etc. Clearly her own relatives felt so too, as Austen's niece Anna wrote a continuation of _Sanditon_ .
If you are looking for more Austen material then her juvenilia is fab too. (Recently published as 'Jane Austen: Teenage Writings' by Oxford University Press.)
@@DrOctaviaCox thank you! I will check it out!
Persuasion also varies from the other stories because Anne Elliot and Captain Wentworth are the only couple who have already fallen in love. The relationship broke not because they didn't love, but because Anne succumbed to the persuasion that she should not marry Frederick Wentworth. They both still loved. Yet it's understandable that her break with him and the subsequent 8 years could have changed his feelings. She still knew she loved him. And I think his actions and dialogue with others showed that he still loved her but still felt the hurt. So this love story is about "Does He Still Love Me/Does She Still Love Me" so the dialogue with others will be much more revealing, as will looks between them.
Yes, beautifully put. It certainly adds a piquancy to their interactions that they love but feel they cannot reveal that love.
But also Ann is a very different character to Lizzie and Emma - she's overlooked and largely unheard at home, and used to a much more internal self-reliant and unromantic existence. She is so aware of her father's and sisters' follies and flaws, and tries to be ever proper, conscientious, and diplomatic. Her only friend is actually her mother's friend who holds an aunt/godmother role, and then belatedly the old school friend she lost touch with - who also looked after her following her mother's death.
Everyone else is either an embarrassing blood relative (dad & sisters), a family friend who she ends up having to defend those family members to/field complaints about, or just past of the local community and not important enough to require a name. She's clearly an introvert while Lizzie and Emma were extroverts - although even the extroverted could find the endless conversations with her family (blood and in-laws) exhausting, I'm sure! 😵
@@DrOctaviaCox I love Persuasion and I like to listen to her thoughts. That is partly because I kept a diary when I was young where I described things that happened between me and people I was interested in. There was not much conversation either but descriptions how I might have seen the person, where he might suddenly have appeared and what that made me feel.
As someone who has only recently read Persuasion for the first time, what I've enjoyed is watching Anne and Capt Wentworth act in such proper, noble, and self controlled manners despite their (potentially) inappropriate feelings. Some might say that this shows the repression of the time, but personally I marvel at such excellent maturity, self mastery and consideration for others. Anne particularly is always virtuous, seeking to serve and be useful and helpful to others, and she is a wonderful heroine.
I think the differences in dialogue speak to young/new love vs. old/established love. Before Anne left Wentworth we are to believe that they had had many secret conversations. And in the end it wasn't enough. So that later we see the deeper connections and that happiness in marriage is dependent on oneself to mean our words.
It is not surprising that Anne is a woman of so few words, even with the man she loves. As the middle daughter who has been essentially rendered invisible by her silly father, her domineering older sister and her self-centred younger sister she has never had a voice in the family. If she were to ever lash out at the injustice of their insensitive treatment towards her, she could be overwhelmed by the depths of her own rage; silence is her defence against ever losing control. She suffers in silence like many woman do, even today. She has learned a silent, nuanced manner of communication in her relationships with others while she sorts out her own thoughts and feelings by herself.
Indeed Sheila - very well put. Anne Elliot has, in effect, been trained by her family to be silent. As we learn in the very opening chapter, Anne "was nobody with either father or sister; her word had no weight, her convenience was always to give way -- she was only Anne" (ch.1).
And perhaps we should remember also that silence is not acceptance, as Anne Elliot shows throughout the novel.
@@DrOctaviaCox Yes, that’s part of Austen’s satire-Anne is “nobody” but yet is the only member of her family with any common sense.
@@DrOctaviaCox \
@@srkh8966 Anne is not only the only one with sense, she is also the only one with morals and principles in that family. It was her principles that led her astray in the first place - being over-persuaded and thinking she ought to be guided by her mother's friend, but that was wrong.
Sheila Koxmin--Excellent. Well said.
Honestly Anne is one of my favorite heroines. Great video!
It’s great that you pointed out the lack of conversation between Anne and Wentworth in this video. They are both resigned to their past and don’t want to allude to it in any way . But circumstances keep throwing them in each other’s way and they gradually realise that their feelings are mostly unchanged. Anne feels there’s no hope left and Wentworth is a bit angry and resentful. And this theme lasts throughout the novel, only taking a positive turn at the very end.
Yes, as if they both are too afraid to _start_ talking! They communicate far more physically than any of the other Austenian heroes and heroines, I think.
@@DrOctaviaCox I dont think Wentworth was resigned. He says he was angry, and that he courted Louisa out of spite, more or less. But he couldn't see her in her circle and not realize how she shone in intelligence, morals, sense, temperament - she is an almost silent demonstration of her own worth.
@@DrOctaviaCox Well, we are told that there HAD been a time when they would have spoken to each other almost exclusively... the break up, Wentworth's resentment, and even Anne's acknowledgement of her still existing feelings would necessarily make them avoid each other... but at Lyme Regis, they do start to talk again - not "small talk" but decisive, again, he starts to depend on her opinion & her decisions... then again in Bath, their conversation in a very public place - an in full view of Anne's family - although not long, is enough for Anne to immediately make sense of Wentworth "returning" feelings... those two are meant to "understand" each other... and finally, although we are not told the whole content... the conversation... the intimate conversation... is renewed when they go for a physical walk... and a "walk through the past"... and review what brought on an "estrangement" that should never have been... so, yep, I agree, they do not talk for a large part of the novel... but we see how, step by step, the connection is fully re-established and when the novels closes, the conversation & the intimacy is back to where it had been 8 years earlier.
Thank you for making this video. Persuasion has always been my favourite Austen novel, but I've never quite understood before how it was done that it feels so deep and tender. Brilliant!
Thank you. I'm glad you found it interesting. Tender is an excellent word to describe Persuasion.
Anne Elliot, One of my favorites... along with Captain Wenrworth, her lost love ... I ❤️❤️❤️ Jane Austin talk!
I Enjoy Your Talk, And I Thank You!!!
Jane Austen’s most beautiful prose. The most mature of all her novels. Anne sharing her interior feelings, really touches the heart. I loved Pride and Prejudice there is quite a lot there to make us laugh. Persuasion is quite different. Excellent analysis Dr. Cox thank you so much!
This is so great! It made me think that the lack of dialogue helps develop this theme of distance in the novel. How even when they are back in the same location, they are just as emotionally distant as when Captain Wentworth was at sea.
thank you for sharing this video! i finished reading persuasion earlier this year and found it very different from other austen novels as there was no work to be done for the leads to fall in love. if they spoke so freely to one another as darcy and lizzy the novel might have ended much earlier, but instead we see this lovely hesitation between two people who have deep feelings for one another and yet act less than strangers. living in the internal thoughts of an older protagonist so wise and poised yet so doubtful and full of regret made me just as unsure of wentworth as she was. honestly the novel made such a good case for anne's goodness of character that i'm glad they reconciled in the end :)
I think part of the idea is that since Ann and Frederick know each other of old, we can take the "getting-to-know-you" part of the relationship as read. It's evident that in their previous encounters, they had come to know each other quite well.
My favorite novel by far. My heart was in my throat when he wrote her the letter!
I like the growth of Frederick and Anne's love, self belief and constructive reflection shown through not just the relationships and interactions but also in their solitude and withdrawal. Over the (approximate) 6 months of them seeing one another for the first time in years they both change for the better and learn alot about themselves and the other. They mature so much between seeing each other again and reconciling. Finally, after many years, all their feelings and angst must be dealt with and overcome.
Your analysis is so on the point. Pride and Prejudice and Persuasion are my favorite Austen novels that I have read multiple times.
Being able to communicate well and understanding each other can't be overestimated, I remember my first interaction with my bf on a chat, just written text, nothing else and I had goosebumps because I immediately realized we understand each other really well. Anne and Wentworth know they have that from their previous relationship, it doesn't need to be established.
I had the feeling as I read Persuasion for the first time, and still have it, that although they hardly ever speak now, years ago they had spoken a lot and poured out their hearts to each other. They had found great companionship and connection in their talking and had been completely honest with each other and understood each other. There was nothing they couldn’t say to each other. Perhaps that was why Frederick was SO hurt and his pride was SO damaged. They were great together yet she turned him down because she didn’t trust him or herself enough. She trusted Lady Russell more than him or herself. They had something fabulous and we’re truly happy and she let Lady Russell wreck it, or she allowed herself to listen to Lady Russell enough that she was swayed and wrecked it. I could never like Lady Russell even though she does care for Anne when her own family don’t. I don’t like it at the end of the novel where Anne justifies herself for doing what Lady Russell wanted. I don’t justify it. But after all their hours and hours of talking when they were young and happy no wonder they can’t talk now. He because he would only want to say How could you? And she because she knows her excuse isn’t good enough.
Great point!
It’s interesting how for something written in Regency England the romance in Persuasion always reminds me so much of romance in Japan, and Japanese movies/drama. Often very little is said. You have to ‘read the air’ and everything is conveyed in looks or other ways unspoken, or internal dialogue. Even the confession by letter is part of it.
I wonder if Persuasion has ever been adapted for cinema in Japan? It would be interesting to have a search around and see.
This was a lovely find as I am currently re-reading Pursuasion, a version with bits and pieces of designed extras included in sleeves at different points in the book. I'm so glad I found you in 2020! Your work is appreciated and enjoyed
Enjoyed some other comments. Yes, all that "falling in love" dialogue was said "before". Jane Austen is taking for granted that her readers know about "all that", either from stories, or their own experience, and is getting into what happens to real people after "all that". She's interested in their inner events in reaction to the "before" events. Love it!
Great video, thank you! Never looked at this aspect of Persuasion. Very happy to have discovered your channel and I cannot wait to go through everything you've posted!! 💚
Always loved Anne Elliot most of the Austen bunch. I'm also an introvert and tend to look at what people do, instead of what they say. Anne and Wentworth being so in synch even after all this time is just so very romantic. I'm curious about your other literature takes!
Excellent analysis. I have been wanting more insight as to why Persuasion is such a unique and powerful novel. Didn't want the video to end. Thank you!
What a lovely thing to say.
Dr. Octavia Cox, you are amazing!
Persuasion is my favourite film of all time. It's because of the lack of communication that makes it special. We can feel all the emotions they feel and it is so powerful and moving. I watch the film several times a year and also occasionally listen to the audio book. My life is complete 💖😊
I really appreciate your doing these for us… I get so much out of revisiting these old ‘friends’.. especially with a brilliant guide ’
Persuasion is really one of my favorites. As far as Wentworth and Anne not "talking", recall that they had a perfect understanding of each other, til her family interfered. These two could in fact communicate with a look vs going on a great length like others of Austen's couples.
That is a brilliant observation. I love Persuasion and yet, I’ve never noticed the lack of dialogue between Captain Wentworth and Anne Elliot. It’s romantic as it depicts a love that’s not a new love, but an old, tested love. Maybe that’s why they didn’t need a lot of words. They fundamentally understood and respected each other. Love your channel.
Dr. Cox, I love your videos because you delve into the deeper nuances of Austin’s writings. You are able to flesh out Austen’s brilliance and craftsmanship in a way I could not express.
Have you ever considered doing a video on the various movies made of Austen’s works? I’m VERY selective about which ones I like because any depiction that isn’t true to Austen’s original is ‘blasphemy’ in my opinion.
Wow I had forgotten that Darcy knows Lizzie is listening when he says she's not handsome! Ouch
I'm not sure about that. You can 'catch someone's eye' from across a room, so it doesn't have to be as illustrated in the picture shown here, where they are close together. Lizzie could have better-than-average hearing, or only barely heard him in a way that he wouldn't have known she was listening.
@@Amcsae I had the exact same thought. I don't think it's definite that Darcy knew Lizzie could hear. Darcy is unconsciously rude because he is a socially awkward turtle. But it's not in keeping with his character or breeding to say something like that to be purposefully heard by a lady.
Even if they were close, it's supposed to be very loud and busy during the dances. So she might not have heard it even if she was sitting almost next to them.
@@jaycievictory8461 “socially awkward turtle” is a great description of Mr. Darcy 😂😂
After overhearing the opinion of Meryton folks about himself, it might have been kind of a revenge against them (like saying, if you don’t want me, I don’t want you) thinking everyone present was being of the same mind.
I think Mr Bennet understood Mrs Bennet pretty well. He was able to play verbally with her, knowing just what she was about. He knew how to tease her and talk over her head to vex her.
Actually, Mr Bennet is not really a worthy character in that he ignores his family, especially the antics of the younger ones, but is also so lazy he can’t be bothered to secure their futures financially, knowing the Phillips and Gardners will take care of his wife and daughters. But, his dialogue is superb! I love his wit.
I would suggest your assessment of Mr. Bennet was not affirmed by JA. He likely THINKS he understands her, but does he? Jane implies he thinks highly of his own intellect (and of that of his first two girls) but does NOT respect (although he admires) his spouse, and he considered the younger two mostly lost causes. I suspect he struggled with Mary.
Modern takes (especially the female ones) of Mr. Bennet are almost unfailingly severe but JA judged him differently. He is NOT lazy nor did he fail to provide for them, nor ignore them. He educated them to the degree they could accept, and all but Mary were attractive to most men. JA presents him as "of a type", but because he recognizes Lizzie as his superior child (she IS), he is not presented as a monster or fool, as is the senior Mr. Elliot.
The greater families of all JA's principal families did what they could to see none fell through the cracks. Remember, we're looking at the genteel (if flawed) part of society (people who like to at least pretend to keep up appearances), not Bridgerton-oids, meaning women with heaving bodices, skid-plates, and anti-grass-stain guards on the backside of their frocks, and the men who pursue and abuse them.
Loved this conversation about my favourite novels!
Thank you so much for this and for all your videos! I always learn so much from watching them.
Thoughts? I always thought that the reason that Austen didn't use dialogue between Anne and Wentworth was to show that they were so compatible and had known each other so truly 8yrs ago that they did not need to converse. There are several instances where Anne knows the truth of what Wentworth is thinking just by seeing his slight facial expressions. But they're such typical "young, inexperienced lovers"; they have such inner turmoil wondering if their old knowledge of each other is still accurate.
This is fascinating. Thank you.
This was very interesting! I just finished Persuasion a few days ago and one of the things I found was that I struggled to be invested in the central romance because they barely interact throughout. I found myself longing for the quick wit and dialogue of both Pride & Prejudice and Emma. Although this stays true, I really enjoyed your analysis and points about it being a novel about Anne's interiority.
Do leave any comments that you have.
Do you find the lack of dialogue between Anne and Wentworth surprising (especially given that Lizzy & Darcy and Emma & Knightley are such good sparring partners)?
It’s like all the conversations and declarations of love have already happened when Anne and Wentworth meet for the first time. But now they are meeting after breaking up and a period of separation. They probably never hoped to meet ever again. So when they do meet after so many years, it’s surprising and awkward and they don’t know what to say or feel. Their meetings throughout the novel are by chance and not due to any effort on their part and any conversation is indirect and in presence of others. But even without much interaction , both realise that they still love each other, and because of changed circumstances their attachment has a greater chance of success this time. Anne becomes hopeful again and Wentworth isn’t angry anymore and he sees that Anne is not so much influenced by others , as compared to earlier . His suspicions are confirmed after hearing her speak to Harville and he decides to take action. Maybe the lack of conversation at the end when she accepts his proposal just shows the level of understanding they still have .
I have considered Northanger Abbey and Persuasion as Austen's most Romantic novels, so not really. I always felt Anne and Wentworth "proved" their compatibility because they were able to communicate by silence, whereas the chatter seemed to be going on around them. It also fits the symbolism, because in the beginning of their courtship, it's the opinion of others which break them apart in the first place, whereas now they listen to each other. So in a way they show they're now ready to "resist" persuasion.
Do you think there could be a link between these rejected men and letters? Because they both express something by writing (granted, at different times and in different moods definitely). Darcy to explain himself, though he needed to, given he was a little at fault after that first proposal...something Wentworth never was, if anything he was more of a victim... but I couldn't help comparing them when reading persuasion after p&p
I read Persuasion right after i finished re reading P&P si the difference between the relationships was very clear. Because of the lack of conversarion i couldnt understand WHY they fell for esch other, i felt like i didnt knew him at all so i couldnt get what she saw in him, in P&P we kind of fell for Darcy with Elizabeth, we know that he changed for her, that he helped her and her family expecting nothing in return, etc. In Persuasion Wentworth does nothing (for me) to fall for him or help me understand why Anne did.
Perhaps i'm missing something, if i am, please feel free to explain, id love to love the book as much as everyone does.
PS, sorry for my English, it's not my tongue
It's no coincidence that Anne is the best musician of any of Austen's heroines, and she does not sing. More communication and expression that isn't verbal. I haven't looked through your complete catalog of essays, but would love to hear an analysis of music and Austen characters; she uses many characters' styles of musicianship as a way to convey information about that character (Mary vs Elizabeth, Emma vs Jane, Anne, Mary Crawford).
Try The Innocent Diversion by Patrick Piggott
It seems that Anne and Wentworth knew each other so well, and were so in tune with each other, they were almost able to communicate without speaking.
Charlotte Bronte famously criticised-----one might almost say disparaged-----Jane Austen's works as lacking in expression of emotion-----"She knows nothing of the passions! " Bronte, if course, failed to understand or appreciate that Austen's purpose in her writing was quite different from her own. I have always thought, however, that Bronte must never have read "Persuasion," or she could never have made such a remark. "Persuasion" is, to my mind, the Austen novel that engages with the passions most deeply and profoundly. How could Charlotte have missed that?
Maybe Charlotte's books never sold as many copies as Jane's and she was jealous?
Someone tactlessly told her to read JA and she was resentful
I loved this analysis. To be honest, I haven't read Persuasion, because I didn't find the particular romantic plot to be what I usually like to read. But, you've definitely turned my head on that! I'm going to start it once I finish my current book. I wonder what you'd think would be the reason why Darcy caught Elizabeth's eye, then proceeded to insult her in her hearing, particularly since he's been brought up with etiquette and training. Elizabeth isn't nearly his status or wealth, but she does have some station in life that seems like it would grant at least not being insulted in public. I do realize that it sets the stage for the book as a plot device, but it's mind boggling how it works out in the book.
I wish Octavia had been my English Literature teacher!!
Thank you!
But she is our teacher! We are learning so much through her sharing her videos on youtube. Thank you Dr Cox
I'm very pleased that you find them illuminating. I'm always happy to teach the brilliance of Jane Austen!
I think this every day. We'd never be late, we'd just be in awe. 🥰
I found myself wondering how often, in the 8 years after Anne rejects Wentworth’s proposal, she regretted acting on Lady Russell’s persuasive urging and how many times she might have imagined what it would be like, if only they were to meet again. “Two minutes preparation” and 8 years of speculation?
Perhaps I am reaching, but I see a parallel between "It is over! It is over!" and that utterance we all know, "It is finished!" And then Anne, whom disappointment, sadness, ill use (in more than one sense), and boredom had nearly killed, was eventually born anew by being useful and appreciated, first by family and then by relative strangers. (At least one of those relative strangers could be compared to Judas, as well!)
There is so much conversation between Anne and Captain Wentworth that we have not heard -- all that took place before they broke up. We understand that they had already spoken much to each other. They just needed to communicate, by the briefest look, to resume all their former confidence in each other. Darcy, on the other hand, had never had an understanding with Elizabeth, although he was gradually approaching one at Pemberley -- she had begun to value him and his regard for her. Having been surprised once by her response, he was still uncertain of her when he came back to Longbourn -- although dear Aunt Catherine, always so helpful, had unintentionally given him hope. But he had no prior understanding to resume, unlike Captain Wentworth.
Only found you today, have watched several videos whilst lying in bed recovering from the COVID vaccine. Not really poorly just pampering myself. Some would say malingering. I am going to get my Jane Austen’s out and start rereading. I have several on audible, beautifully read by Juliet Stevenson and Rosamund Pike but realise how much is missed by not having the text in front of you. Just stopping and reading a passage again and thinking about it. Thank you.
My pleasure Helen. I think the joy of re-reading surpasses first-reading! And it's the mark of a great author that they can be read over and over again, and still continue to reveal new things on each re-read.
And I hope you feel better soon.
@@DrOctaviaCox I too have just found you. I have long felt that. A good book gains so much by rereading and reading yet again. Also a good book can be enjoyed by multiple ages. As in an excellent picture book or YA. Otherwise parents would be drove batty reading to their children. There were books I read under sufferance to my children, and there were those I read with pleasure over and over again.
@@jeank9146 Very true, Jean. When I re-read The Age of a Innocence, I had a very different take on it compared with my first reading 20 years of life experience later. Al good books can/should be re-read & enjoyed over & over again.
I think it highlights that Anne and Wentworth already knew each other intimately- there is no need for verbal communication between them (but also, they both seem rather reserved characters in any case, though Wentworth can exert himself)
So good... I am Italian so I will say it in Italian: brava dottoressa Cox!! 😊👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Emma is my favorite Austen - and the silent communication between Ann & Wentworth is wonderful.
I think the reason Darcy insults Elizabeth when asked why he isn't dancing is that he is already attracted to her, and doesn't like that fact, and strikes out preemptively. He says what he says knowing that she is listening, knowing her attention is currently on him. That is, we are told that. I think if he had no feelings at all, he would just say what he had to say without even caring if the girl in question is listening. But here we are explicitly told that he knows it. To me, that sounds like too much care. So it's tempting to think that he *had* noticed her, but he is trying very hard to deny it to himself.
Absolutely amazing
Thank you for this analysis of Persuasion--the lack of dialogue is what moved me most. I just rewatched this video after watching the new Netflix version of Persuasion. I'd love to know your thoughts on it. Personally, I liked Dakota Johnson's understanding of Anne Elliot, but that's just how I read her character when I read Persuasion for myself. I found in my reading that externally, she tried to be congenial and obliging, but internally she had thoughts and ideas and feelings that were warring with her inability to act for herself and speak her mind.
I feel like one of the primary reasons that the conversation between Anne Elliot and Captain Wentworth is so unspoken in Persuasion is because this is not the story of two people who meet and fall in love throughout the course of the story. Instead, they had gotten to know each other, and had fallen in love with each other more than 8 years ago. This story is one of two people who are already in love, who hurt each other, she by declining his marriage proposal - or breaking their engagement (I'm not sure which) , and he by walking away and not fighting for her, and who have to learn to communicate through the hurt if they want to be together.
Emma is the story of two best friends coming to realize that their love for each other is not platonic. They have been having conversations with each other since Emma learned to speak.
Pride and Prejudice is, of course, the story of two strangers meeting, and through the course of many conversations, learn enough about each other to fall in love.
I'm sure that if Jane Austen had chosen to start the story when Anne and Frederick met, we would have been privy to their conversations which led to their love for one another.
I always thought the proposal in p&p felt anti-climactic, whereas is Persuasion it feels so emotional and fulfilling
Agreed
What I love about Ann and this story the most is that in Austens other novels it seem that the men are the logical ones the women have to be shown how their opinions or behaviors are wrong but Ann is the one lady who is the teacher to the man's unjust opinions. She is the rational one. She is the just in her opinions of all around her. Even when she thinks she is losing Wentworth to Louisa she is still good in her thoughts and actions to both.
The thing about Anne's relationship with Wentworth is that all the falling in love, all those conversations of getting to know each other, happen outside the pages of the book. For the past year or two I've been struck with the fact that probably the two most romantic courtships happen before the novels begin - the other being Jane Fairfax and Frank Churchill.
I love that first meeting scene - I can hear the rush of blood to Anne's head, the ringing in her ears that completely blocks out the sense of what she is hearing. She doesn't just have a quick moment to prepare for this meeting - she has had eight years.
When reading Persuasion, I felt like I was in Anne's head.
We are often in Anne's head, but not always. In the opening chapter, for instance, we move into and out of the mind of Sir Walter Elliot (with the ironic, critical narrative voice condemning his thinking).
I can understand Cpt. Wentworth's anger, when he contemplates the earlier break up.
Anne Elliot reminds me of Fanny Price from Mansfield Park. Both lived internally, and appear invisible to their outside world. They are not striking at all. Elizabeth Bennett was vibrant, and confident. Very striking in appearance and confidence. She lacked maturity of age, but had wisdom through her intelligence. Persuasion is about the constancy of love by a woman through time.
I feel that there were two very important conversations between Anne and Captain Wentworth. The first was when they both were in the same Bath shop together, and they were discussing Louisa’s engagement to Captain Benwick. Again when they were at the concert, they spoke about Louisa and Captain Benwick, and at those times we get a hint of their true feelings, and Captain Wentworth’s indecision and change of heart.
I would be so interested in hearing what you think about Elizabeth Bennett's lies in Pride and Prejudice. I can recall two places: when she's making excuses to people about why she has to skip the dinner with the Darcys when she has to go home because of Kitty, and when she lies to her father about Lady Catherine's visit. It always struck me as important that Elizabeth lies, especially considering her extremely frank nature.
I notice Austen says "the Miss Musgroves" whereas we would say today "the Misses Musgrove". Wonder when it changed.
Thank you for your analysis. I've enjoyed and profited from each of your programs. Speaking of "Persuasion", I've always been curious about the character of Captain James Benwick. What do you make of Austen's inclusion of Anne's advice to Benwick to "not always read only poetry." When Anne speaks of the "misfortune of poetry" to be "seldom safely enjoyed by those who enjoyed it completely," has she become Austen's mouthpiece? In your opinion what is the importance of Benwick's character in the overall structure of "Persuasion", as well as the scene with Anne on the Comb in Volume 1, Chapter 11? Thank you!
Thank you, Tim. It's a fascinating point you raise. Austen's discussion of poetry in 'Persuasion' is well worth considering in detail.
Austen’s novels are full of ‘bad readers’, and the various different ways in which readers can read badly (even if they themselves think they are a good reader - e.g. Isabella Thorpe in ‘Northanger Abbey’). ‘Persuasion’ itself opens by confronting readers with a bad reader in the figure of Sir Walter Elliot (who reads the same book, the ‘Baronetage’, over and over again in order to make himself feel better). And I think Benwick can be read as another example of a ‘bad reader’ in that he misuses poetry (not dissimilarly to Marianne in ‘Sense and Sensibility’). Benwick reads in order to exacerbate his own feelings:
“he showed himself so intimately acquainted with all the *tenderest* songs of the one poet, and all the *impassioned descriptions of hopeless agony* of the other; he repeated, with such *tremulous feeling* , the various lines which imaged *a broken heart* , or *a mind destroyed by wretchedness* ”. (ch.11)
Benwick reads poetry in a way that makes him feel worse rather than better, and overlooks “the duty and benefit of struggling against affliction” (ch.11).
Furthermore, the text rather describes his appreciation of poetry as performative: he “looked so entirely as if he meant to be understood”. It is this that leads Anne “to hope he did not always read only poetry”.
Anne herself, elsewhere, relies on poetry to ease her wretched thoughts:
“Her pleasure in the walk must arise from the exercise and the day, from the view of the last smiles of the year upon the tawny leaves, and withered hedges, and from repeating to herself some few of the thousand poetical descriptions extant of autumn, that season of peculiar and inexhaustible influence on the mind of taste and tenderness, that season which had drawn from every poet, worthy of being read, some attempt at description, or some lines of feeling. She occupied her mind as much as possible in such like musings and quotations; but it was not possible, that when within reach of Captain Wentworth's conversation with either of the Miss Musgroves, she should not try to hear it; yet she caught little very remarkable. … Anne could not immediately fall into a quotation again. The sweet scenes of autumn were for a while put by, unless some tender sonnet, fraught with the apt analogy of the declining year, with declining happiness, and the images of youth and hope, and spring, all gone together, blessed her memory.” (ch.10 - i.e. the chapter previous to the chapter showing Benwick’s use of poetry)
So I don’t think we should read Anne’s view of Benwick as a condemnation of poetry per se. Fundamentally, Anne uses poetry (to attempt) to reconcile herself to her feelings, Benwick uses poetry to stoke his “wretched” feelings, which Anne thinks Benwick should avoid doing for the sake of his own happiness. But “like many other great moralists and preachers, she had been eloquent on a point in which her own conduct would ill bear examination”.
@@DrOctaviaCox Great points. Thanks again for your insights and I'm enjoying your programs on RUclips.
No problem. My pleasure.
Octavia
@@DrOctaviaCox I find it interesting from your excerpt that Anne was distracted away from poetically enjoying her autumn view by Wentworth flirting with someone else. Then she could only be comforted with poetry of winter laments of other seasons' passing. Particularly spring. There is so much depth to Austen's writing that I miss because I'm in a hurry to read the story.
I think as a general rule one should just read texts the first time knowing that you are only reading for plot. It's only on subsequent readings (once you actually know what's going to happen) that you begin to think more about the process. Essentially, first reading = "WHAT happens?", & only on subsequent readings = "HOW it happens?"
I relate so much with Anne, she is an introvert and I would think Captain Wentworth is too. All the other heroines are far more verbose. Given they have both been hurt by their broken relationship, I don't doubt they are both very careful about being stung again.
Important to note is that Persuasion was published after Austen's death by her brother Henry, with Northanger Abbey, it was titled Persuasion by Henry, and Jane was not able to polish and edit it so much as perhaps to add more dialogue, seeing she died of tuberculosis in 1817. Perhaps if she would have lived longer it would be furnished with more, not to say it's fundamentally lacking as a novel, the narrative nature certainly adds to the tension I believe which is so characteristic of Anne and Frederick's relationship.
I love Persuasion but it the one Jane Austin Book where very little actually happens. It is all inside Anne. Her feelings.
In the second volume Anne does exert herself much more and purposefully. She does speak more.
Yes, they didn't really speak to one another, at least in words. But they have a past. A look, any look, stabbed their hearts. Believe me, they were happy, again.
I don't think that Anne and Wentworth aren't happy! - if I gave that impression, I didn't intend to. The point of the video was to suggest that - unlike for Lizzy and Darcy or Emma and Knightley - their connection is not shown through dialogue in the novel. And this continues up until their union - he even declares himself to her in letter form. The text reads (after Anne has got his letter):
"They [Anne and Charles Musgrove] were on Union Street [symbolism alert!], when a quicker step behind, a something of familiar sound, gave her two moments' preparation for the sight of Captain Wentworth. He joined them; but, as if irresolute whether to join or to pass on, said nothing, only looked. Anne could command herself enough to receive that look, and not repulsively. The cheeks which had been pale now glowed, and the movements which had hesitated were decided. He walked by her side." (ch.23)
But once they are united, readers are told that "the power of conversation would make the present hour a blessing indeed ... they exchanged again those feelings and those promises which had once before seemed to secure everything, but which had been followed by so many, many years of division and estrangement".
I think it's interesting that, again, readers aren't privy to the actual dialogue.
Anne's dialogue...I was surprised that calling a man a 'Dick' was an insult in Austen's time. I have since wondered if Ben Franklin's "Poor Richard's Almanac" was a nod to "Persuasion" or vice versa but I haven't checked the publication dates.
I sometimes wonder if this is a very introspective novel with the reality of women’s lives juxtaposed with the unanticipated happy ending. I mean, you know there will be a good outcome, because you know Austen, but the whole book shows such lack of feeling for AE by her family. She is cast aside and you really feel it. Then she’s only got the con artist cousin who is such a disappointment. Even Wentworth is gotten on the rebound, had the Musgrove sister not been fickle.
Of all her books this one makes me feel what a dark prospect her life as a single woman of very small fortune must have been like.
It’s so bittersweet.
I think there's not much dialogue because these guys already have a connection whereas Elizabeth and Darcy form one through dialogue and we are shown Emma's relationships through dialogue.
I really enjoyed Northanger Abbey, Mansfield Park and I am sure I will enjoy Persuasion also. My favorite though was P & P. I have read it several times. I might need to read S & S again though, it has been many years since I read that.
I think, Anne was able to show she was no longer influenced by others so then the two of them, Anne & Captain Wentworth, could pick up where they left off. All of their dialog had happened 8 years ago. They could see the goodness in each other & their love was still there.
Is it certain that Darcy knows Lizzie is listening at the ball? He catches her eye, but might he nonetheless think she can't hear what is being said?
No, it's not certain that Darcy knows definitely that Lizzy is listening. But the text - as you say - does make it clear that he catches her eye just before he speaks:
"he looked for a moment at Elizabeth, till catching her eye, he withdrew his own and coldly said..." (ch.3)
@@DrOctaviaCox when i reread this scene, after knowing his personality at the end of the novel. i thought it was more of a, i'm talking about someone so lets look at them, moment quickly followed by a, shoot our eyes met quick look away before they find out im talking about them! kind of guilty stare that im sure we have all done. especially if told in conversation to 'not look'. plus balls were fairly noisy and while they were close enough for her to overhear, i can see how he may misjudge the distance... i guess this is something we will never know as we dont have his version of events.
@@luchia4tom134 its funny how the movies hide Lizzy and Charlotte behind something, like a wall, a sofa and what looks like bleachers in a school auditorium while Darcy speaks badly about Lizzie. I think that gives Darcy an out of thinking she can't hear them speaking badly about her.. Very embarrassing for Darcy. And I would be full of dislike for Darcy right there and then if I was in Lizzys position.
@@sharonstevek.6797 The 2005 movie does that, but the 1995 BBC is a bit closer to the text, so when Lizzy rises (to go immediately to tell Charlotte!) Darcy is shown to be full of remorse and clearly panicking that she did hear him. It's well done, but still a bit of license from the text.
Aren't we to think though, that they engaged in more significant conversation during their initial courtship eight and a half years ago? Anne is fond of good conversation and we see her engage in that quite intensely with other friendships, such as Captain Benwick, or in her discussion of the longevity of men's vs women's feelings with Captain Harville. She values these as friends because of their ability to provide such conversation. I can only imagine that that drew her to Captain Wentworth initially and what we are seeing in their lack of conversation the reserve brought about by awkwardness and resentment. As soon as this is dissolved after they are engaged they dive back into a deep conversation. For me, the lack of conversation goes to highlight the lingering awkwardness and resentment rather than a different sort of relationship to Austen's other heroines.
I try to get women to like me by not talking to them.
I'm sure they appreciate it, but it doesn't lead to any attraction.
"There's safety in reserve ...."
Enjoying the Austen analysis, Dr.
It's all those familiar puzzle pieces finding their right place. :)
People would do well to research the social mores and etiquette rules of the early 19th century before reading Austen's novels. A woman with sense did not wear her heart on her sleeve or expose herself to gossip and speculation. It would be social suicide to do so.
It feels like someone dared Jane Austin to write a book where the two main characters never speak and somehow they fall in love, in way which feels natural
Something that I’ve never considered is their conversational life after marriage ... haha!
❤