Untangling Greek and Roman Mythology
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 11 ноя 2019
- The development of the gods and legends of Ancient Rome before and after the incorporation of Greek myths.
The traditional pagan religion of ancient Rome is often equated with its Greek counterpart, leading us to think of Jupiter and Zeus as the same god with the same attributes and associated myths. However, the native Roman practices and myths were not abandoned, but incorporated into the elaborate stories of Greek mythology which are more familiar to us. In this presentation we will attempt to untangle the two pantheons: gods and goddesses, stories, and cultic practices. What are the differences? What elements of each religion were later absorbed into Christianity?
The presentation ends around 9.00. The exchange of ideas usually continues until 10, or even later, while we share complimentary snacks and beverages . The venue is called “Centre Place” and is located at 320 Richmond St. E - Suite 101, Toronto, ON, M5A 1P9. We're on a commercial unit of "The Modern" condominium, at the NE corner of Sherbourne and Richmond. Our unit has its own entrance on Richmond, right next to McFarrens Ln. Above the main entrance there's a blue sign that says "Centre Place". (For directions lookup "Centre Place Toronto" on your phone). The venue is 100% accessible.
I love it when Loki has these talks
Here is the Original Semitic Text. HERE is The Savior
YaH The Heavenly FATHER HIMSELF was Who they Crucified for our sins and “HERE IS THE PROOF”
From the Ancient Semitic Scroll:
"Yad He Vav He" is what Moses wrote, when Moses asked YaH His Name (Exodus 3)
Ancient Semitic Direct Translation
Yad - "Behold The Hand"
He - "Behold the Breath"
Vav - "Behold The NAIL"
Ancient Semitic Scroll? You mean one of the dead sea scrolls that the early "heretic" non-proto-orthodox Christians had to hide in the desert for them not to be destroyed by the proto-orthodox?
Sounds a bit post-hoc really.
And doesn't Vav mean Hook? As in the "good shepard's" Hook used to corral the dumb sheep in order to fleece, milk, slaughter, and eat them with the hands, given the savages may have even lacked utensils?
"Man is a wolf to man" ~ Ancient Roman proverb.
“Where there are sheep, the wolves are never very far away.” ~ Titus M. Plautus.
😭😭😂😂😂😂💀💀💀
@@Praise___YaH czars has come uuuuugomf
@@letsomethingshine whenever you study Bart Ehrman's work, make sure to also study the opposing views to his works as most everything he puts out gets quite soundly refuted. Bart is in the minority in most of his viewpoints even among non Christan scholars.
I'm so glad this came up as a suggestion.
I was just wondering about this exact topic.
I've been watching a lot of Centre Place videos, and it figures they would have a video on this subject.
Thank you !!
This guy is such a rock star and Im totally a fanboy! Wonderful lecturer...gush, gush....
Outstanding lectures! What a; gift to those seeking deeper understanding and how to appreciate how history has influenced all teaching.
I noticed the flowers in the Echo and Narcissus. I don't know the English name, but one German name is literally Narzisse, because they are supposedly the kind of flower that he was turned into, because their blossoms tend to droop downward, as if they were looking at themselves in a lake.
That's a very good lecture and a very rare case when YT's algorithm actually delivered me something of interest without me asking. Like, I did want to learn about mythology, but I wasn't looking for it or watching similar videos.
Zeus was raised by Amalthea, a goddess sometimes represented by a goat, whose horns provided nectar and ambrosia. When she died, Zeus took her skin and created his Aegis.
Charming.
A story told by the Cretans (from the Minoans?) because of which the other Greeks called the Cretans liars.
What the fuck were those greeks on man!?!?
55:03 - Zeus was raised by the Curetes (Greek: Korybantes), which as the Idaean Dactyloi were the attendants of the Great Mother Cybele, they were the attendants of Rhea (and they danced and banged their shields to make noise to cover for baby Zeus' cries).
Very entertaining presentation of Greco-Roman mythology without truly phony Judeo-Christian contamination of historical reality.
Thank the gods I found this video for this is some of my favorite subjects.
👍 👍 TY!
My kid always says oh my gods 😂 clever
Really wonderful put together presentation.
What a marvelous video!
Thank you sir
Very interesting and informative about Greco-Roman ritualistic culture and pantheon. Excellent presentation by professor John Hamer. Keeps the audience wanting to hear and learn more.
Xxxxcx
Thank you.
Great as always!
I had to pause to comment this. Share the mic! Let the people be heard! Lol. I know he can repeat their questions, but I like that this isn't simply a one man show.
I love the channel! Keep it up! :)
I know we (as the YT audience) probably prefer the newer lectures without a live audience I feel like John misses the folks who attended these lectures in-person.
Blessed be!
This was really fantastic! So much so I watched it back to back. I loved hearing the Vedic comments as well, because they do have common origins. My feedback to you, Mr. Speaker, is to stand up, tall take a deep breath, start lifting weights, and become these Gods. All throughout this video, you will say something interesting and valuable and then sort of snarky laugh after it in almost an insecure way. If you believe these things, as I do, you can transfer that into your life now and become much more physically powerful, charismatic and more Greco Roman god like. Beef, eggs, sun, weights, myth and vril.
I loved it. Thank you
what is the lecturers' name? does anyone have any scholarly articles that backup this content?
I'd like to hear about when the empire became christian and how they dealt with the loss of so many stories and how the early roman church tried to take the place of all that. Edit, He partly answered my question during the Q and A.
Part of what they did is incorporate a lot of their pagan rituals into Christian holy days. That's why there is so much pagan imagery and rituals in Christian holidays like Christmas and Easter.
Here is the Original Semitic Text. HERE is The Savior
YaH The Heavenly FATHER HIMSELF was Who they Crucified for our sins and “HERE IS THE PROOF”
From the Ancient Semitic Scroll:
"Yad He Vav He" is what Moses wrote, when Moses asked YaH His Name (Exodus 3)
Ancient Semitic Direct Translation
Yad - "Behold The Hand"
He - "Behold the Breath"
Vav - "Behold The NAIL"
"Don't worry about your heritage when your inheritance is easy Elysium thanks to Joshua! Definitely not a trick to destroy your culture." ~ Paul of Tartarus
Christianity was one reason for the fall of rome.
The people lost there culture of the gods that brought strenght, discipline etc. While Christianity took away the backbone.
Only the roman soldier disregarded Christianity by following Mithras
@@kharilane1340 Pagan elements is what the new testament is about. The miracle of turning water into wine is a Dionysian miracle, the healing of the sick is a classical Asklepios miracle. The symbolism of wine, grape vine is taken from Dionysos. Before Jesus the emperor Augustus was hailed as a savior and considered divine. Christianity is a patchwork from heathen and Jewish elements
Zeus was raised by the spirits in the cave. Greeks believed demons or spirits resided in caves.
That's just one story. Besides, all Greek mythology figures classify as demons or spirits.
Daemon*
Interesting!
Here is the Original Semitic Text. HERE is The Savior
YaH The Heavenly FATHER HIMSELF was Who they Crucified for our sins and “HERE IS THE PROOF”
From the Ancient Semitic Scroll:
"Yad He Vav He" is what Moses wrote, when Moses asked YaH His Name (Exodus 3)
Ancient Semitic Direct Translation
Yad - "Behold The Hand"
He - "Behold the Breath"
Vav - "Behold The NAIL"
@@Praise___YaH What does Yahweh have to do with Zues???
I dont know why he put 453 as the end of the Western Roman Empire. Most historians say 476, when the last Western Roman Emperor was deposed. Even if you can justify other dates like 410 and 455 with the Gothic and Vandal sacks of Rome, 453 doesn't really match anything. I think he probably mixed it up with 1453, which was the date when the Eastern Roman Empire fell.
Pluto doesnt know, he is now no more part of the family of planets...
Pluto means Rich/Treasure.
Hades means Hidden.
Would you ship up the audience from interrupting the presentations.
Greetings from Chicago - can you do a set on Marco Polo. Help us separate fact from fiction, how embellished were his accounts...thx
Castration was important for early pastoral peoples, those aurochs (proto-cow) were like the hulk. Bull leapers had no fear as the gods powered there ascent, or inevitable bloody plummet to which the sacrifice was appreciated. No different than today just the ritual.
Oh that makes sense. I always wondered why they were so castration obsessed. Did the ancient Egyptians circumcise animals in attempts to bread certain ones longer?
@@letsomethingshine good question I always figured it was for docility in servitude much like the unucks of Assyria
@@letsomethingshine circumcision is a strictly human and symbolic tradition. Livestock can't be influenced (like calmed down or reassured) by belief, so if you want to mess with the junk of a big, angry bull, you aren't going to do something symbolic like circumcision - you're going to just remove the testes.
While Aries seems important, most of our Greek literature comes from Athens. As the patron of Athens' chief adversary, Sparta, it's not surprising that he takes a lesser role in our surviving stories. If we had a surviving tradition of Spartan literature, the facts might be quite reversed, with Athena taking a lesser role.
Paganism as a religion maybe ended but as tradition and stories and tales and symbols never died.
Great lecture! However, Minerva isn’t Jupiter’s sister (23:08), she is a daughter of Jupiter and Metis, a giantess.
Could the Theodosian Decrees be the trigger, the dislodging of the pebbles that allowed the collapse of the failing Roman Empire?
outstanding. well knit together.
Q./ Is it probable the Christian "trinity" has roots in the Indo-Eurpean/Roman Republic deity Triad concept?
The Egyptian trinitys are closer in my opinion.
The trinity is a common theme in their mythology.
Yes, more than probable, these concepts and believes have been rooted deeply for thousands of years into people’s and cultures and were def transferred through evolving mythologies/religions. Many other concepts/beliefs can be still found in Christianity, for example one of the Christian gods title/names - Heavenly Father - is Djous Pater/Jupiter in Latin
Need trinity historian, I think it's tied to the math that 3 brings dimensionality and occupies area. But I would have been executed by pythagoreans, and more for my heresies
YES!!!!!!!!!!!
Here is the Original Semitic Text. HERE is The Savior
YaH The Heavenly FATHER HIMSELF was Who they Crucified for our sins and “HERE IS THE PROOF”
From the Ancient Semitic Scroll:
"Yad He Vav He" is what Moses wrote, when Moses asked YaH His Name (Exodus 3)
Ancient Semitic Direct Translation
Yad - "Behold The Hand"
He - "Behold the Breath"
Vav - "Behold The NAIL"
Was I the only one who came here from Jake Doubleyoo’s channel?
A classic piece of audience know-it-all-ism ("is that even a word?!") at 11:20 & at 13:34 (same guy, same question): "But my point is..." (no point?!). Got to wonder sometimes if they listen, or if they turn up to show off their personal cul-de-sac of knowledge. (I wouldn't comment except I have formed the impression by now that the resident stubbornness must be hard on the patient presenter).
Never mind his academic ability - John is a seriously patient guy. Think I've decided the 'Q&A as you go instead of at the end, time permitting' is not a good idea, though you have to admire the experimental approach.
@@WK-47 Since I made that comment 5 months ago, I've decided I like the questions as they go, on balance. Committing to lecturing to an open floor is fairly brave, with a clear purpose here. It really is just a consistent few that have got the wrong idea what the format is and, yeah, like I said, can't help themselves showing off.
Severely solid stuff here, really thanky’all a bunch. Gonna ask that you not snap your tongue between sentences. It gets me needlessly upset for some reason. Super common in educational content and it kills me, although the amount and intensity of clicking in this lecture was bearable to the end.
37:30 (circa) so “Zues”and “dyeus”… are these names related to Jesus, Moses, Deus, Mises, Minos, Joshua, Jeshua, Jonah, Joseph, …? Are these all the same indo-European name? Deusday/ Tuesday/ Zuesday …?
Sunday, Moonday, Zuesday, Weddingsday, Thor’sday, Fried-Seafoodday, Saturn’sday, Sonday, Jesús’Day, Odin’sDay, Thunder’sDay, Frigg’sDay, Satan’sDay, Воскресенье
Воскресенье = Ressurection
No. The Biblical names are Semitic, a different language family to Indo European.
I love this
is the red wheel you wear on your jacket a reference to the badge jews were forced to wear in the middle ages?
"by jove" is swearing by Jupiter... sounds very familiar to Jahwe
Jupiter means Heavenly Father in Latin. That phase is used for God all over the Bible
@@kharilane1340 thx, didn't know that. =)
@@marietheut The Romans adapted it from the Greeks name for their chief god Zeus Pater. Zeus means Sky or Heavenly and Pater means father. Most of the Proto-European religions worshiped the Sky Father and Earth Mother.
ម
If you mean Yahweh, that word has an ultimately unclear origins completely contained within Israelite culture, while that of Jupiter can be traced back to a hypothetical Indo-European root.
Just to the ear it does sound similar, though, especially if you pronounced Jupiter with the 'soft J' as the Romans did.
Since monotheist people felt distant from their god which had became the Universe in itself they came up with a new, more human and more relatable version of their one deity.
interesting spelling of Virgil
Checkout one of the two documentaries from the Thunderbolts Project here on youtube; one is Remembering the End of the World and the other is Symbols of an Alien Sky. Either will answer a lot of questions about the myths.
I keep seeing signs of Neptune
Could be the planet influencing me at Capricorn ♑️
mythos=logos=a/b=history
First there existed a far flung civilization with grand structures and miles of aqueducts then there was the Roman Empire to answer for it.
By djoves..!! To swear by/ of Jupiter. Ahh
First you have to untangle Greece from Rome. Then you have to understand the Hellenic realm in civilization. It's influences and intentions. Bring that understanding with truths of today or the lack there of, and you will understand Hellenic struggle is different than Roman privilege.
Southern Italy are different from Rome.
He has Germanic War
A great confusion exists between the Ancient Greek Aphrodite and the Roman Venus.
Aphrodite etymology from αφρός , afros - theme afr + odite ,οδίτη, she who travels in the foam of the sea, named after her appearance at her birth.
According to Hesiod her father was Uranus =the Sky and her mother Thalassa = the Sea,
so called URANIA APHRODITE.
According to Homer the goddess Aphrodite was the daughter of the god Zeus and the Oceania Dione.
so called PANDEMOS APHRODITE.
Well, Aphrodite is simply and only the goddess of beauty. In no ancient Greek text is she considered a goddess of love, but love and war are the results of her beauty. So she is the mother of Eros the god of love and the wife of Ares, the god of war.
In Roman times named Venus and is a goddess of love and connected with the planet venus?!
Eros as son of Urania Aphrodite represents the pure love between people, parental love, friendship,philosophy etc.
Eros as son of Pandemos Aphrodite represents sexual love between people, regardless of gender.
There is also the primordial Eros, which sprung from Chaos, and represents the Divine world order, the universal attraction,gravitation.
Children of Aphrodite were also Himeros (love passion), Anteros (mutual Love) and Hermaphroditus.
Who is this lecturer?
I think his name might be John Hamer
Ares is actually an olympian. The Olympians had a pretty low chance to win the trojan war without him and hades. But hades is not an Olympian. So Ares had to become an Olympian because he has two immortal parents. In the myths, Hera and Zeus said that Ares was their least favourite child because of his mental status
Not Ares dude but Athena. Research it and study again and you will found
21:00 I thought Athena/Minerva was his daughter.
Maby he miss spoke?
Athena sprung from the forehead of Zeus
Athena was Zeus' daughter. Greek myth. Roman myth has differences
Minerva is Jupiter's sister. Athena is Zeus' daughter. This is one of those places where the mythologies won't fit.
Yu
it seems to me that being raised by a she wolf is allegorical...their mother was a savage beast of a woman and their father left for smokes and never came back
In Albania, for a groom to be deemed worthy, he has to steal cattle from one of the neighbouring villages and get away with it. Albania is located in the northern lands of what we call “Ancient Greece”.
Napoli have different language
World and dreams belongs too you 👿🎤🎤🎤🎤🎤🎤🎤
Can you do Christian mythology next?
What’s mythological about it? Christ is a historical fact even according to atheist historians.
@@JesusSavesSouls So Christianity's stories are true but all the other religion's aren't? You think Hercules was a myth but there was a dude walking on water while handing out an endless supply of fish and wine?
@@dflatt1783 Hercules was the son Jupiter (a non living thing) this is obviously mythological. Jesus the disciples and the “early church fathers”, have a large amount of written documentation and testimonial manuscripts of being witnesses to real life events.
Greek Mythology is largely based on astrology, the gods being various planets or constellations.
@@JesusSavesSouls You actually believe that whatever testimony that was originally written is the same you read today? After it has been translated and rewritten by people looking to control others?
Let me say that Christianity (especially the new testament) is an excellent philosophy. I wish more people lived by their tenants. It stops at that.
@@dflatt1783 Jesus is part Poseidon and part Dionysus.
I am here because of Percy Jackson :D
Out of the Ukraine kids? 58:09
I ALWAYS WONDERED WHAT WAS THE ORIGIN OF THIS ABOMINABLE ACT OF CASTRATION. I THOUGHT IT WAS A JEWISH THING BUT MAYBE IT WAS ALWAYS A SANITARY CUSTOM. MEN LIVED FOR SHORTER LIVES THEN AVOIDING THEIR MIDDLE AGE AND SENDING THEM TO AN EARLY DEATH IN ANY CASE.
❤️🇺🇲✡️✝️🕉️☸️🇺🇲❤️
The name for the war deity in the Illyrians tribe of Dardans was Bato .
I love those Nude paintings of Greek and Roman gods
Teutoburg...Arminius war at the Augustus time.....for Romans. no artifacts
JFK
You avoided Catholic church
The dude is Talking about hindus
❤💙💜.
Hercules brought me here not Hades..
I’m a simple man. When I see The Birth of Venus by Sandro Botticelli, I click.
Gevsheek pro
John 14:6
King James Version
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
I believe with all my heart that Jesus Christ is the Son of the Living God.
Guys God loves you all. Please remember this. In Jesus Christ name. Amen
Naureyan noor wood.sayyed naurshad hashmi.
4:31 start here
1:24:20 that painting though... (- not looking at her seems a crime...)
A man who thinks that he knows everything actually knows nothing.
It was dated. Hercules is a myth
Panic wars
Just how pious were they?
pious enough to have vestal virgins, I hear. To some they "empowered roman priests" were so very pious that liberal philosophers had to defend homosexuals from conservative viewpoints/mudslinging... reminding the "patriotically/patriarchy" conservatives that homosexuals were very creative/muse-inspired and helped the economy so should not be bullied, blamed, and killed. Of course, the conservatives often felt icky and like they would "convert" to homosexuality at any chance they were given and society would fall apart, so they thought being pious was not accepting or doing any "pornia" (porneuo acts) from the word porneuo meaning "sell-bow" aka prostitution and other "low class actions that we rich would still pay for if secrecy is involved". Often, conservative pagans in the BCE would say that since they were OUTSIDE MARRIAGE (aka having babies for Ares), homosexuals very lives were pornia which the State should NEVER encourage and maybe even beat down... they had a harder fear of lesbians as well, since they refuse the patriarchy which is important for cannon-fodder foot-soldier war.
Hinduism...we eat cows
Roman's do not have any mythology but all is related to greac that new western countries have stolen them from greac because greac was not at west but east .
Whos Percy Jackson? :/ I'm Only Seven.
It's the series of Rick Riordan books.
Percy Jackson is a demigod born in the modern time. The author tries to relate Greek mythology to contemporary times (such as Mount Olympus is now located in Empire State Building, Hades in California, etc.). The first series is related to Greek myth. The second series is related to Roman and Greek mythology. He also has series about Egyptian and Norse myths, relating them to modern times by the eyes of modern teenagers.
This book series is somehow supplemental to mythology studies, something to spark interests to kids or young adults about myth literature.
This is his fandom page: riordan.fandom.com/wiki/Percy_Jackson
This is the first series of the books, or maybe your local library has this: www.amazon.com/Jackson-Olympians-Paperback-covers-poster/dp/1484707230
The series was adopted to movies, but was discontinued. Now, Disney Plus is going to release a tv series about this. I finished reading the first series. In the second series, it's regarding to Roman myths so I am researching Roman myth to follow thru the series.
Amazing talk, thank you so much!
The romans weren't very religious.
Mainly the farmers were.
May be you haven't seen the many temples Romans built. Not to mention tons of figurines of gods they had in their homes or carried around as neck pieces.
@@TorianTammas i have seen roman n greek buildings. From England to Rhine to Spain, sicily and Greece Crete and eastern turkey.
Thats what good being in the navy 6h fleet
@@petersclafani4370 So you know hiw religious they were based on their temples, their figurines and god symbols they were or carried with them.
Traditional roman urban planning shows us the opposite. Most temples were located in close proximity to most public/social spaces. A good example is the temple of Venus, the temple of Apollo and the temple of Isis, all in close proximity to the intersection of the Cardo/Decumanus in Pompeii.
It's also worth considering that our personal or collective ideas about religiosity or piety could be different to what theirs were due to all the time and cultural development separating them.
The astrologers will find Christ yes… I’ve received a photon once, I’m just saying … IHS
Famous philosopher Alghazi says he was able to rest in Muhammad's Islam once he accepted Allah's pure spiritual light from heaven. Humans are such lofty wool.
Interesting, but you really should stop the nervous giggle. It comes across as condescending and unserious.
“Bce” and “ce” …, you really mean “bc” and “ad”, don’t you ??
No that's not what they mean. C.E.( common era) and B.C.E.( before common era) are used because they aren't based on when a pretend demigod purportedly lived and died. Not everyone I. The world is Christian(a blessing from the dark prince Satan himsel) and its a more accurate and much more respectful to those who don't ignorantly cling to western societies archaic judeo Christian ideology with utter disregard for all logic, reasoning, critical thinking and mounting empirical evidence that disproves the ill-conceived culturally toxic ideology of the magical sky daddy.
BCE is equivalent to BC and CE is equivalent to AD. BCE is before common era if I'm remembering properly. I forgot what CE stands for.
@@Snow_Sailor ...common era
Urdu is not old but new language . Sanskrit is not Very old like Latin and Greek . So u need to study more . Hindu books written in Sanskrit dated like 1200 AD .
You should really do some serious reconsideration about your knowledge of the ancient world
Bruh honestly :/
@@jjs8426 Sorry but as introductory level it's acceptable but in as academical course there are some fondemental problems ! For example Ares was one of the most proeminent Gods in greek mythology and his presence in the works of Homer, Hesiod and many other poets indicates that ! However in greek religion and worships the Athenians were not very adoring to Ares but to state that he wasn't an important diety is absurd the difference relies in words he used and words are of a great great importance, especially among academics
@@kimfr3050 He was talking about Ares in Greek art, TEMPLE LIFE, and their export and self-keeping or pottery and other art. The writings may mention Ares (one of the 12 important Olympians) but most certainly Athena and Zeus would take more center stage given their higher popularity and flexibility.
@@letsomethingshine i beg the difference ! He did state none of that
You’re right about the Ares remark; that was definitely a poor way to describe it. But that said, the whole talk is still great and very informative.
Um, no. Just no.
Any knowledge of where the Etruscan come from ???
Are the Etruscan from Northern Africa ???