Cleaning up Tri-ang Railways R.20 LMS Passenger Coaches & Plunger Princess Running
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- Опубликовано: 20 янв 2023
- Cleaning up a pair of Tri-ang Railways R.20 L.M.S. Passenger Coaches & along with the a little running with Plunger Princess Elizabeth. All dates are approximate Music Source/Royalty-free Apple loops/Looperman.com
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1953! True. Thanks for that!
I remember having a couple of those old coaches when I was a boy in the 50s, I was tickled when I got the green Princess Elizabeth!
Jim great to hear you had some these Tricks-ang items as a child, thanks for watching take care.
Oscar
My first train set, standard track, with the hook & eye couplings. Sadly sold on in later life as we never had the space. Enjoy the uploads, brings back many memories of my early years.
Good morning great to hear you had these as a you first set, thanks for watching glad you're enjoying the videos.
Take care.
Oscar
Another very enjoyable video. I must confess I was surprised at some of the items you acquired recently. Now I understand the joy and sense of achievement you get in restoring them to running order with a bit of effort and a lot of TLC. Well done on getting the red LMS cars serviceable again. It was great seeing them running with the Princess. It is always nice seeing a Princess but even more special to see the plunger Princess, second chassis and incomplete chassis with different motors. The picture of the Princess with rollers for pick up was interesting. I also enjoyed your discussion on Mark 1, 2 and 3 couplings. Keep working on a solution for the distortion on acetate models. The 3D printed spans are coming together well and it will be interesting to see your raised track with Tri-ang models running above their Hornby Dubblo counterparts.
Good morning Stephen glad you like the look of the LMS coaches once they were cleaned up a little I think it was definitely worth a little time on them, they make a great train with princess. I'm looking forward to the elevated section developing although it's quite slow progress at present as I keep running out of time.
Thanks again take care.
Oscar
The bogies, on the original 1950 Rovex (Pre-Triang) coaches are held in by screws, not sleeve rivets. I have a few of them and not all of them are warped. It depends on the mixture ratio of the cellulose acetate use for any particular batch of mouldings. Those with a higher ratio of acetone will warp the worst.
One of my 1950 plunger Princesses has perfect wheels, the other required one wheel changing.
There are two plunger pad types, early smooth and later indented (for improved contact).
The Mk.I coupling will auto uncouple when the weight is lifted by an uncoupling ramp. It will couple to Mk.II & Mk.III coupling bars manually.
The X02 motor was only used for a few months, in 1952 and only on the later R.50 plunger Princess, before it was replaced by the X03 motor in 1953.
Triang Railways and others, offered aftermarket metal wheels with pickups conversions, for the plunger Princess, during the early 1950's.
Only one roller Princess prototype was made by Rovex, in 1950. It was owned by the late Louis Marx and sold at Christies, a few years ago, for tens of thousands of pounds.
The Marx & Spencer Christmas 1950 Rovex trainset ran on brass railed Series 0 mono-directional track (I have a circuit of this track). When Triang took over Rovex, in 1950, they introduced Series 1 mono-directional track with steel rails (I have two circuits of this track).
The only loco that has issues with running on Series 0 & Series1 non-fishplated track, are plunger Princesses.
All of the 1950 to 1960's Rovex & Triang locos, rolling stock, track, buildings, action accessories & sundry were designed by John Hefford. His most enduring design is the budget 0-4-0 clockwork mechanism used from 1964 until the 2010's.
Hi, thank you for watching and taking the time to comment with very detailed information. It’s hugely appreciated.
Take care.
Oscar
Hi Oscar. I have been watching your videos for a couple of years now. Great stuff! I love anything Tri-ang or Tri-ang Hornby. I had a Tri-ang Hornby Super 4 layout when I was a boy in Edmonton, Alberta Canada 55 some odd years back. As a teen, I moved on to H.O. scale, but I always had a soft spot for my ol' Tri-ang. I like your 3 rail Hornby Dublo on your current layout. I did see some Hornby Dublo in Canada when I was a sprog, Canadian department stores Eaton's & Simpson-Sears sold Hornby Dublo. Anyway, after five decades, I still have some of my boyhood Tri-ang Hornby locomotives & rolling stock. Even some Super 4 tracks in storage somewhere. Thank you so much Oscar for your wonderful videos. I look forward to watching them each Sunday here in the Dominion.
Hi Greg great to hear you still have some of your original model Railway items from your childhood. Canada seems to have been quite an important market for Tri-ang before all of their financial issues that arose in the early to mid 70s with many wonderful items made and variations for that market, the store names you mention I have come across in my readings about the history of Tri-ang and the markets they were trying to develop.
Thanks again for watching all the best.
Oscar
Hi Oscar. Just found your site. The 1st Princess plunger type you showed with the flat commuter at the front was the third Model made in the Autumn of 1951. (The first two had the roller pickups of which about 2 dozen were made in 1950 with a second batch of a dozen later on.) So the roller ones are extremely rare.
The second model with the side carbon brushes was produced in January 1952. The extra lead weight you found in it was placed there to try and encourage the plungers to make better contact and not lift the wheels off the track. This lead came from the roof lead flashing of the factory.
The other model with the metal wheels, was first produced in the Autumn of 1952. By mid to late 1953 they had moved on to the X-03 motor we are all familiar with that can slip in and out of the body easily.
Very enjoyable video. I know the joys of getting stubborn axles out of bogies very well. I use a piece of wood with a strategically drilled hole in a similar fashion to your method and I always worry about damaging something, so far no disasters. It's always a relief to get them done and the joy of seeing them run smoothly (ish) makes it worthwhile. The plunger Princess is fascinating and must have looked incredibly well detailed in 1950. I was really surprised to see it get over the points as well as it did, although fast running is a must I imagine. Love the 6" coaches and thanks for the demo of those early couplings. 😊
Good morning Pauline, as you say it's always rewarding when these items run smooth ish, I'm not sure that they would ever have been terribly smooth running fresh from the toy shop especially if you compare them to items available today. Age has not been kind to my example of this early Princess, but brings on a smile when she jumps into action. must've been absolute joy at seeing these things run round a circle of track on the carpet when these items were considered new.
Take care.
Oscar
Like your patience and painstaking work....
Hi Oscar,
Excellent ‘how to’ on removing and cleaning coach wheels. The Plunger Princess and distorted coaches are a piece of Rovex/Triang history and worthy of discussion even although they do suffer from age. The complexity of the plunger/roller mechanism makes you wonder how long it took for somebody to workout that a simple copper strip would do the job, evolution I suppose.
Well done on the elevated section and 3D printed supports. 👍
Hi Gordon it was definitely an interesting route they took with the pick ups on the Plunger Princess. I'm quite excited about the elevated section but its turned out to take longer to develop than I had first thought!
take care.
Oscar
Thanks Oscar, great video, I really enjoyed seeing the very early plunger Princess', and also the close ups of the earlier coupling design, which is actually more efective than I'd realised, but as you point out is slightly limited. I have a 1953 Princess like yours in the film but my coaches are more bendy, they do run rather well considering. It is nice to own these bits of Triang and Rovex history, and I have to say in just a few years Triang really nailed two rail running better than anybody else at the time.
Hi great to hear you have some examples of these older items in your collection they really are quite lovely things despite the effects of time and the choice of materials originally used. As yon mention Tri-ang really did develop quite a wonderful model railway system in such a short space of time.
Thanks again take care.
Oscar
Great video as always. It's lovely to see you taking such good care of these older models that many others may overlook or think as not good enough on the modern railways. Such lovely models. Thank you for letting us into your love of this hobby.
Hi thank you again for watching and the kind words it's much appreciated.
Take care.
Oscar
Hi Oscar
A great look at some old nostalgia, nice to have some of this in a collection.
Regards paul osman
Good morning Paul thanks again glad you enjoyed a look at these older items from the collection.
All the best.
Oscar
The body for the original plunger Princess was reused for local manufacturing of Triang trains in Australia and New Zealand. The original tender was also reused.
Hi thanks for watching and the information, very much appreciated.
Oscar
A lot of work and well enjoyed thank you.
Thanks Gavin, glad you enjoyed that I think it's very rewarding when everything all comes together.
All the best.
Oscar
Hello Oscar, seeing these early items is a treat, the two versions of the plunger chassis look in great condition and the body shell is nice. The mark one coupling is interesting, I know you can't reverse the orientation of a vehicle but once coupled the stock is very secure. Thanks for showing these vintage items. Best regards to you
Good morning Mr Snooze great to hear you enjoyed seeing these early items, as you say the couplings do look very secure and would've been excellent for the train set on the carpet.
Thanks again take care.
Oscar
Hi Oscar ,, thanks for the video you put on about changing the wheels and axels. I watched another guy on another channel about removing the axles and wheels and this video was a great refresher of how they come apart. It will be very handy knowledge to have as I plan to fix up all of my old open box axles sets to give them a good cleaning.
Its amazing how we learn that some the older models the earliest ones that have the different couplings on them. I have never seen them before so this is news to me. Its also good to see that bit about the different couplings in the catalogue too as its very handy to know how they all got there names and origins je mark 1 2 & 3..
I have some old platforms here made of acetate that have rather big bends and I will be experimenting with the plastic ones to try and straighten them so i might even do a quick video on them wether there is a success or failure hahah.
Cheers from John in Australia.
Good evening John glad you found that interesting, probably many ways to remove these wheels, this was just a way which works for me at the moment and pretty good results, definitely a time-consuming exercise though. Be interested to see how you get on straightening out as the bendy acetate platforms.
Thanks again all the best.
Oscar
Thanks for the tip on getting the coach wheels off. Have a set needing replacement wheels and wasn't sure on how best to get them out👍
Hi thank you for watching glad found the video interesting.
take care.
Oscar
Great video this morning Oscar, some really nice items there, shame that they have been ruined by the distortions that they have suffered, interesting new coupling on those early items, first time I have seen that coupling.
Just seen the reply to me on your last video where I tell you about the r751 class 37 I had been working on, I have actually just yesterday (Saturday 21st January 2023) managed to get it working to an acceptable standard, I have had the model for quite a long time and in that time it has never ran until recently, to get it working again I have actually used the armature that would go in a triang hymek but overall very happy to have it running after a long time of owning it and it not running.
Good morning David thanks for watching, I think the distortion of these older items is all part of the charm of them in an overall collection. I bet it was a steep learning curve at the factory when they realise this was an issue. Great to hear you got your R.751 up and running, I forgot to mention these replacement bearings and keeper plates which are available in my earlier reply, have a look at these links below they may be of use.
Thanks again take care.
Oscar
www.hornbytriangspareparts.co.uk/item/MS79-HORNBY-TRIANG-PK-2-MOTOR-SHAFT-BEARINGx2fDAMPER-A1A-V9C
Also these replacement baseplate are quite useful.
www.hornbytriangspareparts.co.uk/item/S5453-HORNBY-TRIANG-PLASTIC-KEEPER-PLATE-EARLY-EM2-A1A-CLASS-37-S10B
@@oscarpaisley thanks for the links to the items here Oscar but I don’t need to buy anything else for the model right now, I already bought the motor shaft bearings a while ago and the base plate that I have right now seems to work ok, thanks for linking them though because if I ever need replacements for triang items I know where to look.
Great start to Sunday as usual. You certainly have a great selection of Princess Elizabeth locomotives. The distortion of some of the rolling stock and wheels is quite alarming. I was stunned how well those wheels cleaned up. The patience you have to take all that apart , clean it all up and then put it back together certainly pays off. Thanks for sharing Oscar. Look forward to seeing your next update. Roy.
Hi Roy great to hear you found that interesting, it's odd how my collection of Princesses has grown, there always seems to be another good reason to get another one... Or at least it seems that way at the time.
All the best.
Oscar
Great video Oscar!
Your layout is coming along nicely and the elevated section is great.
These models are a piece of history and it's lovely to still see them running. Another nice Sunday for me watching your video. Take care! Cheers!
Hi Chris, thanks for watching and nice to hear you’re enjoying the videos and seeing the progress of the railway. I’m finding it very rewarding but keep running out of time to do the things I have in mind! Everything always takes a few more hours than you think…
All good fun.
Oscar
Mklla and MKllb couplings Oscar, the half moon added a bit of weight to hold contact, but they still uncoupled at will if the mood took them. Looking great though, well worth the effort to strip and clean. Railway looking great too. Plunger running great Thank you
Hi Paul thanks for the info glad you enjoyed seeing these terrific looking older items, I found it very rewarding project getting coaches cleaned up a little.
All the best.
Oscar
Another great start to Sunday Oscar. It's amazing how many of these plastic wheeled princesses still exist as so many were converted to metal wheels. As you've got spare chassis, you should convert one to metal wheels just for the sake of having one that can run better on the layout. There are so many Spares available at shows and on-line.
I appreciate you want to retain the original axles/wheels but I have been replacing some of mine with brass bearings and pinpoint axles with metal wheels. The rolling resistance is so much less. I am on NS track now so any magnahesion is lost and thus the traction required to pull the old coach/wagon stock is much reduced. As many others have said, it is great to see the original models. This has now become part of Sunday!
Hi thanks for watching I completely understand your reasoning for changing to pin points and brass bearings, it can be frustrating when you have a number of these wagons/coaches together and the huge amount of friction that is developed. It's definitely a consideration if you're going to be running on nickel silver track, even without magnahesion you get a little more pulling power with the old Tri-ang wheels on coarse steel track so pin points and bearings are going to give far more flexibility.
Take care.
Oscar
Another wonderfully interesting video Oscar. It is nice to see the evolution of the Princess model over the years including the changes in couplings. I do think it's a shame that Tri-ang set the coupling height so low though the original Hornby Dublo height at just under the buffer beam is much better. As we all know Hornby of today is the descendant of Rovex Tri-ang that bought out the Hornby name so have continued with the Tri-ang way which all other UK outline makes have adopted.This is causing me a lot of work as I am in the process of changing all my couplings to Kaydee, although not correct in the prototypical sense they do look better and aren't a mish-mash of different sizes like the tension locks are. It turns out that original Hornby is the correct height as I have dicovered from some Wrenn models that continued using their moulds.
Thanks and all the best Rob.
Hi Rob thanks again glad you found that interesting, sounds like quite a big job converting all your couplings over to Kaydee's, they do look to be quite a good system.
Take care,
Oscar
I always find your videos fascinating Oscar. I have a small collection of Triang including Princess Victoria with solid wheels and two blood and custard coaches that i think it came complete with.
Hi thank you for watching great to hear enjoy the videos and that you have a Princess Victoria and blood & Custard coaches, Great items they were available in a set together in the early 60s RS.1 I've included a link below to some pictures of an original set box.
All the best.
Oscar
www.tri-ang.co.uk/rs1set.html
One of your best and most informative videos to date Oscar. hopefully it will encourage a few people to do some maintenance on their older Tri-ang models. I have cleaned the wheels on some of my rolling stock but I have a lot more that I should do. There is so much to look out for and collect. Thank you for broadening my vision on the subject. Regards, David.
Good morning David great to hear you found a video informative, I think these older items benefit from a little encouragement to get the running a little smoother. Like yourself I have a few more to do. I've just recently had wheels and axles off four primary trucks and five primary vans! a task I've been putting off for a couple of years or so! But very rewarding once completed.
Take care.
Oscar
Excellent Oscar. One tip for cleaning the axles (or any iron or steel parts) if they are rusty is to soak them in white vinegar for a few days... the result will depend on just how rusty they are.
Good afternoon David thanks for watching and the tip, much appreciated.
Take care.
Oscar
Hello Oscar, great to see your layout and rolling stock. I an 67 now and as a young boy probably had a lot of the items you have, I only wish I had them now . But it's great to see your locomotives running round the layout. Your station with the canopy roof is great, I would love to buy one so I shall keep a lookout for one. I remember your other layout when you had the over head power system, that was a great layout as well. Looking forward to the next video, so best wishes from Hull,in the East Riding of Yorkshire. 🙂👍
Hi Martin, It’s great to hear you’re enjoying seeing these items and must’ve been terrific having these as a child to play with. The Hornby Dublo station with a canopy is a lovely item. They seem to be quite a few around a present on the auction sites.
Thanks again, all the best from North Tyneside .
Oscar
Hi Oscar. Your patience and knowledge really adds to the appreciation of the footage.
I keep using the word fascinating, but to learn that Rovex produced so many different mechanisms for the early Princess and then to capture on film enhances the enjoyment.
Hi thank you again for watching and kind words it's terrific to hear you're enjoying these videos.
All the best.
Oscar
Interesting video thx
Hope your feeling better Oscar , I had Covid a couple of weeks ago . Interesting with the plunger type pick ups , I’ve got a really old Graham Farish GP5 in OO that has those on the tender . All the best . Richard .
Good morning Richard sorry to hear that you had Covid hope you've recovered swiftly, it's an awful thing, I'm over it now thankfully. It was definitely an interesting route to take for pick ups, but possibly a simpler way around at the time to produce the train sat at a more cost-effective price and not knowing at the time that this one set would develop into an extensive range of model locomotives, rolling stock and accessories.
Take care.
Oscar
Nice to see how you fettle those open axle box wheel sets. I have a few that need doing. Just to add yet another possibility to the type 1 couplings - the description you showed in the catalogue said they could not be automatically uncoupled. However, I couldn't see the counterweight in the catalogue picture. I have it at the back of my mind that the version with the counterweight could work with a standard (Standard Track) uncoupling ramp but I've passed on the coaches I had with those couplings so no way of testing the theory! As others have noted, theType II couplings had (and still have) a habit of uncoupling at will but that's part of the enjoyment isn't it.
Good morning Mike, there’s always another set of those wheels to clean! Thanks for the info about the couplings. I shall have a look when I get a moment and see how they react with the uncoupling ramp.
all the best .
Oscar
I really enjoy seeing the very early Triang models - amazing that the locos can still be made to work, and giving the coach wheels a service really makes all the difference. I wonder how well the models ran when they were brand new, with no distortion or oxidization? It must have been great to have been a kid in the 50s and get some of these in a set for your birthday!
Loving the progress on the layout - your 3D printed parts fit in so well with the genuine items.
All the best. Gord 😊
Good morning Gordon it must've been amazing getting these items as new fresh from the factory. Thanks again for watching glad you like the look of the 3-D printed items.
Take care.
Oscar
Hiya - W😮W - I didn't know that you could 'Hammer' that fast!!! 😉😀 @ 25:45 - I've never seen that type of 'Plunger Pick-ups' or even @ 32:58 - 'Roller Pick-ups b4 - that's new to me!!! 🤔🚂🚂🚂
Good morning Jimyjames, thanks again glad you found it interesting.
Take care.
Oscar
Hi Oscar, an excellent vid in full detail which I believe no one else has done on you tube. Could the triang metal wheels be fitted to the plunger chassis to keep the engine viable model. As you have covered the two engined TC diesel the only thing from triangs past thats nowhere near fully covered is the battery box and electric controllers of the 1950’s a vid for sometime in the future. I really like the running of the two systems you are doing right now Thanks.
Hi thanks for watching glad you found that of interest, the battery box will be quite an interesting item to look at. I shall have to have a look at the one I have in due course and see if it could be brought in to life.
Take care.
Oscar
Hi Oscar, I love the alternative commutator arrangement on the plunger princess, I’ve never seen one at right angles to the rotor before. I wonder how long the carbonless brushes last before they’ve worn through? Your new layout is coming on nicely, I always love the raised section of track.
Best regards,
Dave
Good morning Dave it's definitely an interesting arrangement that commentator and carbonless brushes. Possibly a reason the design of the motor was changed to give it more life with replaceable brushes.
Thanks again glad you enjoyed the videos.
Oscar
Oscar, had you considered using graphite as an axle lubricant?
In another hobby I use this on gears just using a the softest pencil I can find. Ready powdered graphite is available to from Kadee for example to lubricate their coupling system.
Have also used it on Wrenn nylon plug in pinpoint bearings with good results.
I had always been concerned that oil on plastics would have bad effects as you found. However I have not thought of any disadvantages of graphite used sparingly.
Hi John, I have used graphite as a lubricant in other situations but not on model Railway items to date.
Thanks again take care .
Oscar
do you know if there’s anywhere i can get spares for this engine? mine is missing the rear bogie and i haven’t been able to find a replacement anywhere
Great video, thanks Oscar. Seeing how you clean up sleeved wheel sets was really helpful. Can I ask, when you re-assemble them do you use any lube on the axles and/or axle boxes or just leave them as they are. I'm usually in two minds, wanting free running but not wanting things to gunge up again ! The princess and cleaned up coaches looked wonderful. Thanks again.
Hi thanks for watching glad you found a video useful, when I reassemble I just put the smallest drop of oil on the open axle box ends only if I'm going to use the item, if I'm just putting the item away to store I don't oil. I've been using a very light sewing machine oil which leaves very little residue. Definitely better to use a little and add more when if needed.
All the best.
Oscar
Another informative one Oz.😄👏👍👍 Bullfrog snot traction tyres for the PPs?
Hi thanks again for watching and the information take care.
Oscar
Another great video Oscar I see you have a 3D printer have you tried to make some now wheels 🛞.
Hi interesting idea! Thanks again take care.
Oscar