The Scary Truth about Comic Prices Collectors Don't Want to Accept
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- Опубликовано: 28 авг 2024
- Comic Book RUclipsrs won't agree with me on this basic truth.
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“The reality is third party grading has never been more popular”. Yes, however, the cgc scandal happened only 2 weeks ago. It will take a little longer for that news to fully filter through to the wider market. I have graded books, I’ve never paid “market value” for them. I’ll never put and serious money going forward into big graded purchases. I will actually spend more if I had to on a raw book as I can actually check the book and given I was a collector since before the days of cgc it’s second nature to me, I have the skills and I know what I’m doing.
I never had a break, I never walked away from comic book collecting, I’m not a newbie. After the scandal if you pay for a big graded prices graded book at the present time you need your head testing. Would not touch a graded book of the ilk the scammer was going after. Sit things out for the next few months if you “need” graded books, I’ll be buying raw from this point onwards.
Great feedback! I still think not only does comic book grading survive the current scandal but expands and gets better over time
lol no it wont @@collectiblesdad
I agree. There is so much ungraded stuff out there. Ive been in collectables for three decades straight. It would shock people if they really knew whats out there. I know of at least 40 to 50 ungraded copies of X-Men #1 in my area from longtime collectors who do not grade anything. I have two myself I bought in the 90s.
I think it’s worth putting Wolverine’s first appearance and first iconic LS cover in context.
Over 23 million *households* (not just individuals) watched X-men the Animated series when it was on. Wolverine was the standout character in that show. X-men #1 sold 8.3 *million* copies.
All of this was BEFORE Hugh Jackman and the MCU.
4,000 sounds like a lot, but when one considers the sheer amount of people *JUST* in the US who cherish this character, it’s not surprising that his iconic comics are still such big sellers.
I was laughing when people were pay $300 for a 9.8 of X-men #4 (first Omega Red). 😂
Also kids now a days aren’t super into collecting comics so it’s kinda a dying collectable? That’s what it seems like to me idk I’m only 26 and not into comics so I really don’t know the game but i just don’t see tons of kids or ppl my age even collecting them… does seem like a “growing market”…. Kinda like a boomer hobby (plz all love no hate)🤣❤️
Sadly I think you’re right. The biggest collectible used to be stamps. It was like that for decades. How many stamp collectors have you met?
I would say it's a Boomer / Gen -X hobby. Kids like the conventions, tv etc. But as far as reading it's mostly manga that they read from what I see.... to which grading manga will probably help keep graded comic books relevant because it will keep grail books going as historical pieces.
I like how you’ve been deep diving and discussing the reality of these crazy pop counts on both comics and sports cards recently. I feel it’s rarely discussed, and really sunk in on me today. Thank you for this wake up call and distraction from the everyday prices, sheesh and let’s gooo talk etc.
Appreciate you watching!
For sure, we may not always see eye to eye but I try to support ya all. Another thing I hear all over is people saying anymore “oh my gosh prices are so cheap, deals are everywhere, I gotta buy everything cause at discounts…” I think to myself, are prices truly cheap now? Sure if you compare them to the pandemic which is how everybody that got in during that time seems to perceive “deals.” Buys now could still very well be too expensive. The pandemic really distorted the hobby so much it’s sorta in a way unfortunate.
I think this is a great point.
Unfortunately, for this particular book you are likely wrong🖤🏴☠.
Let me explain, The comic game isn't the same as the card game. In the Card game Max popularity dictates how high a card can go and it plateaus. Then scarcity can drive up the cost. Same is mostly true for the comic game except the popularity could be extremely short or it can withstand decades of time and grow exponentially when multiple generations are also wanting those same things. Take for Example Superman and Batman. Multiple generations of collectors love those characters so the demand has grown but the supply was fixed therefore the price increased. We are now seeing the multiple generations fall in love with the same characters we fell in love with (Spiderman and Wolverine in particular.) It was hard to get a Wolverine #1 30 years ago because everyone wanted it. But now there are millions of Wolverine fans and likely tens of millions of Spiderman fans. Because they are still actively in print they are still relevant and current 50 and 62 years later. (Much like DC did with Superman and Batman.) As long as those characters are still in relevant comics the desire/fanbase will continue to grow. I think 4k is a huge number of comics in that condition to be available and you are correct everyone took good care of that book, but went I was 15 and read the graphic novel I had to have that series and paid top dollar to get 3 of the 4 and cherished them dearly. When Wolverine was in his own series everyone knew it was special and cherished it and for a long time (even when it looked like Marvel was going to destroy the character with stupid plot lines and movies.) But the reality is people love Wolverine as much now as we did then and now instead of 10,000 wanting that comic there are 500,000 wanting that comic and the longer he remains relevant the more fans with grow to want that comic. Imagine how much a Joe Namath rookie card would be worth if "Tom Brady's" name was "Joe Namath Jr."! That's why that particular comic will likely only increase in value (and likely jump a bit more if Deadpool 3 allows this generation to see a real representation of the gritty, raw, unfiltered, smoking, fighting, drinking, womanizing and ferociousness that wolverine truly is.)
But all for those minor Keys, and irrelevant characters you are 100 percent correct in all likelihood everyone that wants them picked t up at the newsstand. Even those 1/25 covers that are fetching top dollar will likely fall into relative obscurity and only ever be desired for there obscurity. They are like the second tier All-star athletes whos names weren't quite big enough to capture the imaginations of the next generation. They were important and have there place but time won't grow their value even if a movie or mini-series casts them into a temporary lime-light.
I think X-men and Avengers may also hold some of that still-building-a-current-following magic, but the constant tinkering and team and changeups doesn't help. Teams can stand the test of time but consistency is important, if you happen to change the thing/magic that held it together it taints it. TMNT has proven a solid team can continue to be relevant throughout generations if it stays true to itself. Killing off characters for dramatic effect only gains an immediate bump in sales but actually destroys the chemistry of them team (much like trading key players in sports.)
You’re 100% spot on!
I tried to get into comics again after spending awhile of not caring to collect anymore. When I came back I was just shocked at the prices for regular monthly books and even worse some of the writing that dealt with certain subjects that had nothing to do with the story line and even stopped reading one particular series. I just said WTF is this doing in here!? I started collecting back issues and found myself buying a few higher priced books at $20 and then said WTF are you doing!? So then I started to scout out half priced book stores and was pleasantly surprised to find half priced books and even $1 books, sure they aren't the high dollar books but I was happy to fill in the holes of my collection I started many moons ago. I had several books graded which took over a year to get back and was asked by my local shop if I wanted to sell them.
I could remember myself working my butt off to buy these books and once they are gone, they are gone forever. So now I just buy whenever I see a chance to get books cheap and no more than $3.00 for books that are in high grade. I try not to buy low grade books even if they are something that would fill a hole, unless of course a low grade book could be turned into a higher grade with the right presser and restorer. What I have found is they printed hundreds and thousands of these books and they are not as rare as the hype wants you to believe. People are turning in collections into books stores and getting a couple hundred bucks for their collection. The best way to fill in the hole in a collection is to buy a collection and offer a better price than these comic books shops will give. .20 per book? WOW!
I grade most of my books to be 9.0, but the hype is incredible at I am in no rush, I enjoy the hobby as a side thing with no anxiety to the hype to TV and Movies. If I were to sell my collection today there is nothing special about it, I would see pennies on the dollar and so hopefully someone else who inherits the collection will cash in 50 years from now and doesn't sell it because they need to pay a bill or needs extra spending money to gamble in Vegas or go on pawn stars to sell a graded book for meth money. They will cherish the effort it took to assemble it and be a good steward to pass onto someone else to hold onto for the next 50 years. It's a great dream.
I always try to buy below cover price. I used to pay 25 cents per comic and they all quadupled in price with inflation. I sell most dollar comics for five bucks a pop.
I think demand will decline over time, because the big two are shadows of their former selves in terms of sales, and prices of current books are so high that new collectors are not getting into the hobby the way they did when comics were priced more in the "disposable income" category. Less new collectors and the eventual passing away of the "old guard" will mean an overabundance of supply vs. the future demand. That's my opinion on the market anyway.
Good video. I also believe there is no rush for these books. Particularly when the movie spec money is gone and the grading pops keep rising.
I have $500 invested in high grade ASM #300. I realize that is crazy. I have several very early silver-age X-men and Avengers (2 thru 5) that are very nice mid-grade books, that I have had since I was a kid, and some of those books are worth less or the same as that ASM 300?! Who knows what the demand for collectibles will be, as what is going to be popular with people is a crap shoot. If future generations of people quit reading comics, and the movies are viewed as "meh", all of these books might not be worth beans.
He's right on a lot of what he said BUT all that same stuff can be said for the sports card market as well.
And that's why yesterday I posted a very similar video on my main channel, The Sports Card Dad ;) Check it out!
A graded comic is no longer a book
It becomes a piece of wall art
You’re not going to crack it just to read!
And
Comic books are meant to read and shared and enjoyed!
They found boxes of F.F. #48 in a ware house years ago. Not rare anymore. I saw a ComicTom 101 video where one of the hosts talked about having a box full of Hulk #181. He was planning on retiring on them. Be careful out there.
Hulk 181 is a perfect example of a 'you have plenty of time' book
@@collectiblesdadI feel that the 9.8 copys of this book will remain "High" ....(expensive) however the mid & lower grade copies will become more affordable!
maybe signed 9.8 books but yeah too many books ungraded that can pop up
Not to keep commenting, haha, but I also wanted to chime in that this isn’t as much of an issue with 90s books and up, as we have actual sales data. We know how many physical copies were printed of a given book, so we can then make fairly safe estimates about 9.8 figures based on 1) how many printed and 2) the books graded so far.
If a MODERN book is a 50/50 split or 9.6s and 9.8s that always tells me it’s a hard book to get in 9.8, and I adjust my percentages accordingly.
As restoration techniques improve over time, we'll probably see more higher graded classics.
I'm not sure if you watched it when we posted it on our channel but I did an interview with Very Gary (which was a lot of fun) and I went through those old MVC cards from the 1990 Marvel Universe set with him to have him guess what some of the major silver age keys were going for back in 1990. It was deflating looking at what you could get an FF1 or X-Men 1 or Amazing Fantasy 15 for in NM condition lol
Dutch tulip mania. The bubble will burst. EBay is not the end all be all. Be on the lookout for garage sales, estate sales, and other means to find the same product for a lot less.
I'm in my 40s and that's exactly it. I just got back into comics and all the major keys are the same over and over. The reality is we don't have to buy it now because it's so rare. It can certainly wait because it will still be around.
Separately, no, keys aren’t staying the same. And anyone who thinks that is going to be missing out once the X-men get into full swing.
There is a GLUT of X-men first appearances that next to no one is spec’ing on. First appearances that could someday be as important if not MORE than some of these Avengers first appearances. Obviously can’t know with any certainty which mutant characters audiences will be drawn to outside of the Giant X-men and original crew, but I think we could see Harley-level interest in a lot of these various lesser known mutant characters, depending on scripts, actors, et al.
So I think what you’re seeing is just this laser focus on Marvel and DC keys that’ve been shown in the films. Once new characters start being shown, we’ll see a whole new set of important keys.
Like, who ever thought Loki’s first appearance would get to where it is? Or the aforementioned Harley. Or even Miles Morales. But here we are.
You absolutely nailed this one.
Thanks!
These days I only send in books for grading that I get signed at events myself. For me it's not so much the "perceived" value of the book and when it's signed, but the EXPERIENCE of getting it signed; meeting the creator/s in person, getting to talk to them in the flesh, shaking hands, and seeing them sign the book in front of me. Those memories stick forever. And so those books I "immortalize" by getting slabbed and preserved for life. Those are the only books that I send in these days. And I don't buy already signed and slabbed books, because it doesn't come with the "experience." It's never about flipping.
I enjoy playing the devil's advocate on this matter and would like to raise a couple of concerns regarding graded books. Firstly, sealed books present a challenge for thorough inspection. Consequently, users have to rely on the slabbing company's assurance, and if that trust is compromised, it jeopardizes the overall trust (CGC & PGX serve as notable examples). Secondly, when dealing with ungraded books, buyers have the advantage of personally examining every aspect of the raw book. If online, they can request additional pictures if any doubts arise.
Cgc turns books into giant trading cards. Cant even read the book.
The future you describe is pretty bleak. A market of nothing but hard plastic is truly a terrible thing to contemplate. The other side of it being, of course, is in order for this to be true, everyone has to decide that the extra cost of having someone else determine the grade is somehow actually worth it. And then there's the fools that for some reason pay the extra dollar amount for that arbitrarily applied 9.8. Dystopic indeed.
It’s about time collectors start to figure this out. Thousands of a collectible is not rare. Go hunt down things you know you can’t replace. I’ve been doing this for decades and not only is it fun, it’s profitable.
I think you're right. I have about 6000 ungraded comics myself. Most of them are mid-grade non-key crap, but I have a few key first appearances: 1st Deadpool; 1st Venom; 1st Cable; 1st Gambit; 1st Hellboy, etc. I doubt any of them except the 1st Hellboy would fetch me a 9.8 though. I also have 1st printings of the Dark Knight Returns series, and one or 2 of those could be 9.8s.
You made me think a bit today. This was a nice take on the state of the hobby. New Sub! I look forward to hearing more from you. Salute!
Speaking the truth! There are just so many copies of these books. The free money is over…
Remember the recent fires in Hawaii and California= the floods in Nebraska? the hurricanes in Florida and Louisianna? collectables- comics were destroyed in all those events= and will continue to be destroyed- last year i saw on the news a video on the news of a comic book store under water from a broken water main during a noreaster storm= my point is, you never onw how much of this stuff-even recoded graded ones,are still actually out there
Y’all go ahead and “wait”
I’ll be buying the books y’all wish you would have grabbed when fruit was low and plentiful.
Markets are a wave. You just have to have the skills to be on the right one.
I have 2 of each 1-4 ungraded myself.
Here is why investing in comics is just a bad idea. If I sell $3000 worth of stock, it costs me $0. If I sell $3000 worth of BTC, it costs me around $4-6. If I sell a $3000 comic on Ebay it will cost me about $450. If I sell it at auction, it will cost me around $300. Don't forget the horrible tax treatment on any profit you make. Don't forget the grading and shipping costs and the scammers. If you still invest in comics I just don't know what to say.....
You have to pay taxes on stocks and crypto when you sell, so terrible analogy lol but if I buy a $3000 comic for lets say $1000 and sell it for the $3000 yea eBay is gonna take a cut, but I’m 9 outa 10 still in profit lol
I am an Enrolled Agent tax preparer and I am an expert in US taxation. Crypto and securities if held more than one year are taxed at the long term capital gains rate of 15% (0% if you are in the 12% tax bracket). Comic profits can be taxed at your ordinary tax rate up to 28%. Crypto and securities can be held in retirement accounts. Comics cannot. Should I go on? Securities and crypto are liquid and can be turned into cash instantly. Comics not so much. A huge chunk of your profit from the comic is sucked up by grading fees, selling fees and horrific tax treatment. I'm not trying to pick a fight, I am just trying to give comic collector/investors an understanding of how things really work. As an Enrolled Agent, if I suggested to a client to invest in comics, I could lose my IRS credential, be sued, and possibly face criminal charges. I am just tired of seeing RUclipsrs use the the words comics and investment in the same sentence. And just so you know, I have been collecting and reading comics since the Sixties and I actually owned multiple comic stores for 27 years. Years back I called it a day and got out of comics and converted my collection into big boy investments. Best decision I ever made.....@@youtubesucksass6588
You pay taxes on stock and crypto too
Of course you do, but at a lower rate. I think you are missing the point. I actually pay 0 tax on my investments because all of my investments are in self directed 401Ks and IRAs so I can trade all day and I do not even have to worry about taxes. Forever! Ah, but too bad, you can't put collectibles in a retirement account. @@foodini666
Depends on how much ya spending
One of my greatest regrets was selling my 4 issue Wolverine mini series.
And The Dark Crystal comics
It's not the yellow black wolverine I know so I'll give ya $4
Good stuff man! subbed.
Thanks for the sub!
Interesting, very interesting. We all need a dose of reality. May I ask, how many graded books do you own and what are some of your “biggest” (you know what I mean 😂) graded books? Thanks!
I wouldn't say I'm anything close to a high end comic collector, but I have about 50 CGC slabs, Giant Size X-Men 1 CGC 8.5, FF 52 CGC 6.0, quite a few silver age keys/classics, and then also have stuff like Bevis and Butthead #1 CGC 9.8 etc lol
@@collectiblesdad it’s all good brother. However, you like many other RUclipsrs telling their audiences not to worry have skin in the game. I appreciate the honest answer, some great books and I love the Beavis & Butthead 9.8, that’s all what collecting is about. Yet you do have skin in the game and while it might be positive thinking it is just that.
I’d be very interested to see what is coming down the road. I have to be honest, I think this is pretty catastrophic for cgc. Yes they can bring a new slab to market but that doesn’t solve the problem of the millions of slabs already out their which make up the market and will still constitute the majority for probably the next decade to come. I’ll wager you a Simpson’s 1 9.8 for your Beavis & Butthead 1 9.8 that there will be more cases (big ones) of this type of fraud/scam to emerge over the next two months. The genie is out of the bottle now and we are all doomed…. Not quite but it’s pretty bad. Lol
ASM 300 print run divided by population of comic book collectors = ?
Its my opinion that the standard "Super Heroes" are just played out and bland at this point. All these Marvel and DC movies have ruined the nostalgia thus hurt the value of comics. But I think its only the standard Super Hero genre thats going to suffer over time. I think that comic books like GI Joe, Transformers, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Masters of the Universe, Areala Warrior Nun and Warhammer 40k, ect. These type of comic books will hold well. People are tired of the super heroes. Indy books are taking over.
Comic books arent going anywhere. Comic books have always been a staple of American life, so many movies have been influenced by comics. Even if most of the LCSs close and comics seem to go away, there will be a resurgence from an aspiring publisher, comic books will remain. Just go to your LCS on New Comic Book day, look at how many X Men, Avengers, Wolverine, ect remain on the shelves compared to GI Joe, Transformers and Duke SELLING OUT!! Nobody cares about Super Heroes anymore. Not even new ones like Invincible.
I'm not 100% sure on that. I would have to see total sales because maybe a store gets 100 copies so they have ratio variants and it leaves like 20 dead books on the rack but it is still way more profitable. And maybe in time that becomes the trend as far a super heros going the way of westerns etc.... ... But for now, like short box and go collect release their top 10 selling books and there's a mostly still super hero stuff. ... Like I feel something like a Wolverine 1 or Secret Wars 8, almost at a point becomes like commodities , traded several times over bundled into upgrades and downgrades ... almost becomes like a bar of silver for the hobby.
I think your twin brother has a sports card channel.
😝
Wrong but not wrong, yes there is more comics getting graded, but how many are up for sale at any given time? Not just that, how many of those are newsstands and or mark jewelers? They will always command higher prices for the 9.8s and the older most of these books get the more and more expensive they will be, unless tomorrow everyone with a 9.8 comic decides to sell all at once flooding the market.