"Shoot the boer doesn't incite violence": witness
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- An expert witness testified about the importance and deeper meaning behind political and struggle songs. The case was brought by lobby group, Afriforum, over the "Shoot the Boer" song. eNCA's Manqoba Mchunu has more. Courtesy of #DStv403
Imagine if the courts investigated corruption as much as they did a damn song. Trillions went missing and we here discussing lyrics
Imagine! let's wait and see if afriforum and Eff will safe normal people from vaccine . confusion!!
Courts don't investigate anything. You should be talking about the SAPS, SIU, and ofcourse the NPA!!!
Enough sad I rest my case.
This country is a joke. A f**king Joke.
Can't investigate those involved in corruption because it's been made clear going after those criminals only makes ppl racist seeing its unfortunate the ones that are guilty of these crimes are from one party that's majority black. Flip not even honest, hard working blacks can make a stand against corruption because they're labeled coconuts. The balance is and law is woke in this country
This expert would analyze the sister bethina song and tell us that it means that Tshepo was not walking with a stick in a literal sense. I like her.
🤣🤣🤣🤣
This song isn't constructive. To kill is against the law. Murder is wrong. I understand that these are struggle songs and part of South Africa's history. But we should be creating new chants and songs that will drive us into the future where we work together and build an amazing country where we all can live in harmony. Fight to secure an education, fight to send my children to school. Fight to start a business. Fight to keep it alive. The 'kill the boer' song only divides the people of South Africa further. Where was the vision of Nelson Mandela of a Rainbow nation. We aren't living in apartheid any more. We should strive to leave the world better than we have found it.
So we need a White specialist to put a stamp of approval to sanitise the song lol
You like attention
This old woman might have her own distorted opinion, but the fact is the song, stating “ kill the boer” is OFFENSIVE, finish and klaar. What would happen if I said “ kill the ……..” all hell would break out.
Since when can you compare Boer and kaff--r??? I bet you dont even know the meaning of the k- word.
Redant What if he said kill the black man? It doesn’t have to be a racial slur, because Boer sure isn’t a racial slur. But it is referring to a specific ethnic and partially racial group in South Africa and saying they should be shot.
🙆🏽♀️Is the word boer offensive? Yet you could not even say kill the Darkie or african or black you went Straight to ...K (assume thats what it meant)
Where did they find this so called" expert"?
It's a pity that when land claims were done by the ANC that when the land was offered to the claimants that the majority took a money compensation instead of taking their land back. The money has been spent and now they are still landless!
Nonsense
Hahaha BS
What’s the point of taking up land without money to work it?
let a ‘white’ sing a song with like manner and see how far that’ll get them. The ‘expert’ needs a lesson in history and show me where such songs have not had dire consequences to society.
A ‘white’ is not African and is not part and parcel of African tradition & culture.
@@sam3407 that’s such utter nonsense. Then by default, an American black is not American, a black England is not English.
@@nigelsoden1821 It’s true, we are not American; the Native Americans are the real Americans and should be returned their land if possible. I’m African American.
@@Kreedo1110 The Native Americans fought the settlers and lost.
Africans are not barbaric
What utter nonsense from a Professor. In a country that is full of violence. Sing new songs of hope and peace 🙏
my mother attacked on her farm 3 weeks ago.. in icu.. she treated her staff well.. those songs do no good
So sorry Trish, I wish her a speedy recovery
Sorry about your mom,but can you share with us if the attacker came singing from outside? Was it the same song Maybe? Just trying to understand if just a song can vibrate and control your mind like that?was this attackers Eff people? And what if this songs are sang by 5year olds ,must we run away and be scared?Guys the more you comment this way the more we realise the world is full of delusional people ,and we can't help those brains,there is many malemas in white and black skin.
Women and children are killed even man are killed everyday in this country,I have never heard a song from those killers,
It means we won't resolve real essues in this country,real people are hiding somewhere.
You will hear after this case , Only delusional people will be screaming load
Lucy Mthembu The fact of the matter is Lucy, the EFF sang this song outside of a court while someone was being tried for a farm murder. And then they will try and justify by saying the farmer deserved it because they treated their farm hands poorly, which is for the most case not true. Everyone has free will, but we can not ignore the fact that words do have power and can incite violence and blood-shed. That is why if you go and read the constitution hate speech is an explicit limit/exclusion to the right to freedom of speech. Exactly because hate speech can lead to violence and blood-shed.
@@lucymthembu7021 If you follwed this case you would have heard that people did murder farmers because of this song and wrote the words in blood.
That's a criminal matter and the perpetrators must be dealt with accordingly, with or without the song, they would have still done it. I wish your mom a speedy recovery
And wat about us as ,boere, and singing Die Stem. Why are us being discrenedatet
Let us not make mistake of factualising our opinions. Song can incite violence
Thats your opinion and you are entitled to it
Tell us how' a song can incite any harm' or sort of violence'
Just share true information,give us names and play places where a person was killed while a killer singing,any song Maybe?
But hey we all come from different backgrounds.inthink Afriforum is a group of white traumatized nation by their ancestors.and they gave lot of followers who are as much.i realy thought Afriforum will be better teacher of Truth ,and share their fears about Black people.
They came on this case just to expose themselves with their little Information,luck of knowledge.how do they win cases this people in Court,?
@Magwabane Gulle uhm if i sing kill all women and some domestic abusers starts singing it with me and some domestic abusers are inspired enough to go kill their wives.
@@magwabanegulle9540you don't believe words can invite violence?
She lies.... So much xah. She is nether a mother speaker and her analyses is nothing but empty vessel
What make you such an expert ???
One thing that is obvious from reading the comments here and on other videos on the matter, White and Black people in South Africa do not share common struggles. And so much of our differences are based on the misconception that we do.
Basically the EFF is a Marxist organization very similar to BLM, they use violence (verbally and physically), fire, and chaos to get attention... and then use victimization (mainly white guilt that happened 3 decades ago, even though the country was in full control and governed by "blacks" ANC for the last 3 decades) as an excuse for there actions... I dont know your views BLM, but I sure can agree that this tactic is being used by both those parties
@@rocketsunny2423 stop spreading lies please. what happened 3 decades ago will last for generations and generations😔 jas look around y'all don't see the result of what happened 3 decades ago........😔😔
@@merc0805 ANC had full control of the country for the last 3 decades and only thing that happened was that it got way worse and yet you dont blame them?(because they black) only the apartheid is to blame... all the cadrering, stealing and corruption... more squatter camps than ever before... you are color blind boetie
@@merc0805 you make it last for generations because you want it do.England came and killed most boer women and children in concentration camps The same England that started segregation or apartheid in SA .Yes the boer did not do this england did .But the boer stood up out of the ashes and worked to build a new world .People like you are going to hate and sing hate songs and incite murder on inocent people .
@@rocketsunny2423 I never said anything bout da ANC. En btw im not blind to the ANC's flaws, en yes apartheid is 100 % to blame for the state South Africa is today😔😔 jas imagine................if we all had equal opportunities...........education, schools, housing ect. .......jas imagine boertjie....... open ur eyes dear🙏🙏
If EFF is so unhappy about current situations, why don't EFF sing "Kill the ANC?"
@Willem Bester, he won't be told or instructed by you which song to sing. Get-over yourself.
@@noreenm5018 A court found him guilty of hate speech for singing the song. This is the second time he is in court for the same reason.
He did in numerous occasions Indicated that his intentions is to kill and burry the ANC.
@@JackSmith-ou1dg correction, there was an agreement that was made the order of the court on appeal not to sing Kill the Boer hance he replaced the said words with Kiss the Boer.
@@marumokitime3771 As it pleases the court.😄
Come from her!!! Look what the English done to the Farmers Boere wifes and farm worker in the 1899's!!!
So way is the old flag banned …. Shoot anyone in a song is vile and the land was never stolen … she is offering a poor opinion about something she is not an expert but a fool
Everyone is missing the point, it has nothing to do with what the song means, the question is does it incite violence? the majority of the EFF supporters are young people and that generation has not been apart of apartheid, and it must be determined it that struggle song incites violence in the youth of today?? The witnesses can say what they want, it does. People get angry about the past, and it is their rite to do so. what the bigger issue is that there are more people struggling now with a corrupt ANC government. What if the song says "kill the government"? Will that be OK? No song that says or chants to harm or kill any type of person should be legal. It is ridicules that it is even argued.
You shouldn't speak without facts on a global platform. History even after 1994 black people dont have in them a violent nature, there's never been a case before so why would we start violence now, we want jobs and to have a living, black people have no history of violence against white people. If theres something to be said this shows that your guilt of the past you think we will act like you did against us but black people dont have a history of violence only you do and your forefathers
@@TheKing-hp7mh The most upsold statement I heard in ages, "no history of violence against white people" you just need to look at images of farm murders on the news, are you saying that is not violent? not just farm murders. if you look at crime in general in SA, the crimes are committed with malicious intent. That can never be denied? the crimes are committed with so much violence that it will be places next to being hateful, thus being hate crimes. If you look at the July riots, do you consider that to be violent? The people that took part in the riots where black people, that was violent. that violence caused people to die. The same as Marikana, there only 47 people died and it was called a massacre. Go and look at the images of these events and tell me that black people are not violent?
And her reward for saying this was?
A savings account at VBS
The song is very beautiful and Mark my words one day you pigs will run from Africa continent or else we'll visit all of you one by one... God bless Putin from Africa
Go ask your ancestors who invaded their land
If government banned the old national flag, they’ll have to ban this song too.
Two sides of the same coin.
That flag stands for the oppression of a majority who happen to be natives of the land. How does that song oppress the descendants of European settlers whom till this day, enjoy the benefits of stolen property of the natives while the natives are displaced and aren't sure of their future in today's society?
If it can be used for ‘academic purposes’ then the song can be used for cultural purposes.
I'm pro free speech and don't believe in "hate speech". The song is obviously hateful and encourages violence but speech shouldn't be illegal. I don't think it's specific enough to qualify as "incitement"-- I think that should be reserved for cases in which a specific individual has been targeted, to preserve free speech.
Ideally, this should be dealt with politically. That's what would happen in the US or the west. The rest of the party would oust this guy and replace him with someone respectable.
So then it should be fine to raise the old South African flag as an expression of white marginalisation and frustrations with the current regime!
What a African expert. We are fooled.
Can u find African whose an expect in European literature. This crip and disrespected.
Not true. Her "expert" testomony was proven wrong, biased for these circumstances and naive with the advocate for the defense so glad, yess!
"shoot the Boer does not incite violence" - you just have to read that sentence to know anyone defending it is being disingenuous. The statement is an oxymoron
Do you not understand what metaphors are? Is everything literal?
@@yunghpeac8110 no but when the man who said he might order the slaughter of white people one day says "shoot the Boer" you should take him literally. Same with anyone who chooses to hang out with him
This is not pre 1994... These songs should be banned. No need for any hate speech
What does this fool expert witness think about the word "kaffir"?
Your mother
@@sandilemfeka4658 you Poes
tell that to the murdered farmers, their families and children.
give this lady a land fo sho
She didn't really shed light on how the song is OK to be sung today, it is hostile.
What was Die Stem representing during the previous regime and what does it represents in this current regime?
Die stem is more hostile than this song
She does, listen to the reporter when he speaks.
@@marumokitime3771 Die stem has nothing to do with black people, it was to disassociate from the British. But y'all not understanding basic history is no suprise to anyone
It's just her opinion. When the struggle is over why still sing it. The struggle now is with the Anc government not the afrikaaners.
Imagine if somebody started a song "shoot the k", how much s there would be.
That's like saying the song from NWA, f*ck the police incites violence against cops. What kind of logic are these Dudes using?
He must be jailed
No you must go to where ever you came from
The “expert@ witness has been told what she shouldn’t say, so obvious 😤
How do you know? Please inform me
there have been farm murders in SA way before the song...so🤷🏾♂️
Who said so
Boer killed Blacks
Ohhh, WOW that's all I can say
What will happen if the whites started to sing kill a black will that be hate speech. I think they will classify that as such. We are now almost 30 years a so-called democracy why do certain groups still sing struggle songs. The old flag is declared unlawful why not the struggle songs, some portions of the population felt the same about the songs as others felt about the old flag. Those songs divide the people of South Africa the same as the old symbols.
This old auntie will change her point of view when the gansters and murderers come and kill her family one day, then she will cry and be sorry for what she said, karma is a funny thing, don't dare karma.
Neither does "one boer one taxi" Ok.
Agreed. What is in words anyway....
So saying shoot the boer does not incite violence???? What!!!???? What idiocy!
Why are they still singing the struggle song. The struggle is over.
Not over until we reach the core of racism, this is just the start.
Power of the word. What you utter is creative. Violence is part of our heritage - we have to change that. Speak and sing PEACE into our reality. New songs...
What was Die Stem representing during the previous regime and what does it represents in this current regime?
Then this gives a new meaning to freedom of speech
@@bongamsibi8632 there's a reason as to why Die Stem was composed and has sentimental value for those it was composed for, it was representing the moment of triumph and celebration for other section of the society and the moment of pain and defeat on the other hand. The question is as to why is it allowed to be used during this current government if we want reconciliation of in South Africa? It's even taught at foundation phases at schools.
@@marumokitime3771 I couldn't agree more
Marumo Kitime Die Stem represented and always represented our national pride as South Africans. The difference is it makes absolutely no referencing to hurting or killing anyone. At all.
So before 1994, no one thought that the tables would be turned some day and that accountability would be required in the future? The assumption was that everything would be swept under the rug and life would go on as if nothing had happened in the past? No one ever learns from History, do they? By the way, I think this woman is speaking from a point of fear, than logic.
You can't change the past. Y'all would be eating each other if it weren't for white people.
May the current powers take note. The wheel turns slowly but surely.
Accountability that's a joke the injustice in south Africa is very serious especially the land distribution is a joke
Expert witness says she believes it means this or that which makes it subjective. For someone else it can mean he must literally go and kill farmers because it makes him believe that's what the song is about, because the interpretation is subjective.
We have to understand that majority of our people with limited intelligence will understand it literally as it's sung.
1oo %this old auntie got the bull by the b@lls. But tragedy hasn't strike her and her family yet that's why she saying what she said, what she don't realize is that the certain black people, hate whites and it just take a black leader to say something about whites then they take it as, go and kill them they are bad. Why does she think the July riots took place, because of zuma that was locked up. With everthing that's going on in the country with corruption and state capture certain black take it as if zuma, ace and all the culprits can do these things, why can we not do it, and who shall we blame, the anc off cause, because all the culprits are anc politicians and caders. The leaders of the anc and eff set the example for the there supporters to loot, kill, and steal, end of story.
@@julienicks8691 majority of black South African will understand it as a song that reminds them of where they come from, their past and struggles and where we're are going as a nation.trying to recover and heal ourselves. These songs are passed from generation to generation, there's no way we could "literally" misunderstood its meaning. We celebrate and remember our history
Only a fool who does not know that in every war or revolution there must be a command for action. It's not the case for Balck SAns. Black SAns grew up in the struggle for centuries. We have mastered the art of the struggle against White supremacists. Our songs had been banned during the dark days, banning them now shall be double jeopardy to our struggle.
@@musajohannessithole8970 white supremacy ended, your only enemy now is the new apartheid regime called the ANC, so change the song to "kill the cadre"
Swap the target grouping to the source group and see blondie get a shit fit.
For the BLF "shoot the boer" probably is meant to be taken literally...
how on earth can she say the song is inspirational ? What a nut case ! It's the connotation, which revives the memory of the original lyrics " to kill " .the struggle is over.she is not even an African ! As some one mentioned .this whole case is a terrible joke.id say if the eff or any political party or person can sing this song the k- word should be taken to mean what it means which means unbeliever ,in Arabic .and should not be banned .people historically used words in a political way too! As defiance .
Which struggle is over ?
@@abt5347 "the apparent struggle"
But the intention of the k word was not to say unbeliever it was a racial slur just like the n word.Words don't always mean what they mean if they have a negative connotation behind them or visa versa a positive one
@@NorthsideNtz I agree :in this case ,; kiss the Boer , is intended to mean kill because everyone knows the song and what is being said even if it's not said directly.
@@drea7295 the struggle is not over whitey
But why when the old flag was hanged … it’s was such a big problem….!!!!! Now it’s the song and it’s not literally…. Only when the old flag it was hanged it was literally 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Ha ha ha the flag that was banned was one instituted by englan Just after the english murdered most boer women and children in concentration camps.The boer hated that flagThats not the boer flag.The English apartheid .Now you want to murder the farmers in your ignorance
The english started apartheid and the dompas
England came here for the mines they still own most of them
They also use burn people alive during the struggle, doesn't make it right to do just because it was part of the struggle.
Even Inkatha was paid by Someone to kill people,that part is a hidden file.
If one realy needs to tell a story tell the truth,half truth is what is making us have this one sided comments.go to townships,ask relevant people,you will understand that is was not easy to live with people who where send by government of the time to kill a pregnant women with a sword,trying to remove a child who will be a anc in future,
Have both side of story,don't be carried away by side that suits you.
Thats just her version and opinion does not mean anything
Interesting....why does your version carry any weight???
Wow jaws dropped on ENCA white lady speaking truth God bless this lady and her family 🙏
Good prof, the song is about land and justice, not about Malema or hate speech. Will afriforum start advocating for land redistribution after this schooling ?
They will never ,they are coming for onother black person,till someone goes to jail.eff is also going for chaos
In the same light, the K word doesn't incite violence. It doesn't make it less hate speech. The difference is calling for the KILLING of a certain RACE constitutes incitement to violence. This one doesn't seem very clued up, never mind and expert, in my opinion.
Thankfully you’re irrelevant in modern day Africa.
I smiled listening to this White Woman.
I speek and understand Afrikaans, English, Zulu, Swazi, Thosa, Latin, Portugal.
Words and Action displayed by persons intent and preconception.
Song or not he is displayed hand language with gun fingers symbol!
Saying that is Kiss.
Dit is direct opposite = lying
Song, Acting, as a leader to leading to the accidents after song is example of motive to say it is ok or good to do to any people is crime to humanity.
I think the Genova Convention need to take this case.
Twisting words in court is very different to inciting violence in a crowd. Malema is at fault & must be punished.
What does the dancing crowd understand understand about those words!
Gary here - the words invokes emotion( it encourages action) Im clrd , if sum1 called me boejong,hotnot,kleerling gemors n wud react with violence bcos I'm being disrespected.If I called a person the "k" word it's crimen injuria (punishable by law)).If I called sum1(ape,baboon,monkey,,donkey) I wud b cited.Respect,Tolerance,Ubuntu is what is required.Come on ppl , SA can b for ALL.
Only because you are stupid...because you want to go the tit for tat way.Put it out of your mind...If you do that...I will do this..then the world will become a better place.
Why will go to the extend of calling people names,why don't you focus in you life if you know the meaning of Ubuntu?we will always be oil an water.
@@truth-Hurts375 Gary here - not tit/tat I'm exp hw a song/wrd can invoke emotion which leads to violent action.Its not name calling.Its eg's which demonstrate hw ppl react when disrespected.Get it - GOOD!
@@lucymthembu7021 Gary here - its not name calling.Its eg when u call ppl names it causes an emotion which leads to action(sumtym violent).U have already decided oil/water which means u are not interested in 4giveness/reconcile. Then go on U live that life.Thr are actually many black,white, Indian,clrd--other who wants too live in PEACE/HARMONY.U take yr racist ideology and step aside.
When we sing other songs no one says anything, there are songs such as Gorrila yo yasho in Yamazaki, that doesn't mean we are Gorrila but it is part of our struggle songs
Guerrilla perhaps?
@@sanmak3283
That's not white song it's a black song words (pronounce and writing) is black, I know Gorila in that song
@@njsibanyoni1884 angishongo ukuthi it's a white song. Ngibuza ukuthi loyo gorilla omshoyo akushiwo yini ukuthi guerrilla, which is something else ?
"Violent song lyrics increase negative emotions and thoughts that can lead to aggression, according to a study published in the May issue of the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology (Vol. 84, No. 5)."
In five experiments, Anderson and his colleagues asked more than 500 college students to listen to such violent songs as "Shoot 'Em Up" by Cypress Hill and "Hit 'Em Hard" by Run DMC, and such nonviolent songs as "Finger Lickin' Good" by the Beastie Boys and "Love vs. Loneliness" by the Suicidal Tendencies. Researchers also included the lyrics of humorous violent and nonviolent songs like "A Boy Named Sue" by Johnny Cash and "Hello Mudduh, Hello Fadduh" by Allan Sherman.
After listening to the songs, the students performed various word-association tasks to test whether they linked more non-aggressive words with aggressive words or filled incomplete words with vowels to make aggressive words. They also reported their feelings of hostility as measured by the State Hostility Scale, ranking sentences based on their emotions after hearing the songs.
The results indicate a relationship between violent song lyrics and increased aggressive thoughts and feelings of hostility. Humorous violent songs also increased aggression levels, relative to humorous nonviolent songs, according to Anderson. The findings held even after the researchers controlled for the listeners' gender and personality differences, as well as their reactions to the different performing artists and musical styles.
eagleeye.news/
Let it be internationally tested
It is absolute astonishing how they can OK wrongness to suite their agenda. Two sets of rules...NO NO NO NOT ACCEPTABLE
An academic minded person, or should I say an educated person, can perhaps reason this out and reach a conclusion that it doesn't literally mean to incite violence. The problem however, is that the average EFF pundant, by virtue of his admiration of JM and the EFF, is not so educated and refined and so to him, this would be interpreted as kill.
"EFF is not educated nor refined so they assume to kill" - lmfao! You're racist for assuming EFF followers are illiterate 👀
To assume you understand our culture is foolish on your behalf: we literally sing these songs from an early age but we don't go shooting our white colleagues and/farmers!
It's complete ignorance of our history and the complete denial of our culture for you to misinterpret our chants into fitting your victim narrative: just so you can assume the "reverse Racism" card.
So you think full grown African adults can’t think for themselves?
@@thatolas Please get a life! Since when does assuming someone is illiterate have anything to do with racism? This is the problem in South Africa... racism gets brandished about for everything. If I don't agree with a political ideology, I'm a racist. If I don't agree with black people chanting "kill the boer" or "one settler one bullet" then I'm a racist. How stupid are you actually? Can you not see that white people don't appreciate these chants and find them offensive? You want white people not to use the "K" word because it's disrespectful and offensive and because it only serves to further incite hatred. Why can't you respect white people for feeling the same way. You are such a hypocrite. To my mind, chanting "kill the boer" and other such idiotic rethoric is un-cultured! I wonder what ever happened to that mystical concept of Ubuntu... Does it even exist?
@@sam3407 Most adults regardless of race and nationality are barely able to think for themselves, buddy. It's a fact that 90% of people barely follow politics and simply follow along with people around them. The fact of the matter is, the song is irresponsible.
Imagine being persecuted for singing struggle songs that are part of your heritage😂 Afriforum is an absolute joke. Wasting state resources!
To add to that, they did not pay any reparations for the past injustices.
Interesting. So, to set a precedent because all these "things" start somewhere, if a bunch of non-blacks at a gathering, who are in fear of their safety and security, had to start singing songs or chants of for example - "we will defend ourselves against evil black people who want to murder us by revenge killings" this would be acceptable to all black people, the justice system, the constitution etc?? There may be a person or people who could or would take up that message and do exactly that!! Yes, songs, chants and music can be very motivating. Why cant we all just live in peace...
But Bruce do you honestly not think that it is time white people and black people sat down and discuss with open minds how to settle this land issue.
Black South Africans are ticking bombs by the looks of things. And some of us do not need any history repeating itself, ie people dying(civil war) nor do we want a Zimbabwe situation.
Let's face reality, land belonging to whites is too much; eg. those with over 100ha's of land must give atleast 30 ha's back, such things need to be discussed. Discuss resources as well, all these things can be done over tea not this fighting everyone wants. A big problem is that only a few whites want to speak the truth, the only thing white people want to do is say i give blacks food, i smile at them...white people of SA it is time to realise the truth must be spoken and dealt with(it is not a solution for everything but s start)
@@abt5347 The issue lies in inheritance. Populations were equal in terms of numbers once upon a time. But if you have to cut your inheritance up into 5 or 2 pieces, which are bigger? The two pieces. Why do white people own more? They had fewer children so they could invest more in education, etc. They sacrificed having more children so that the two children they had, could get ahead. African communities didn't consider any of these things when they were having 5 babies in the 90s. They didn't consider how they would be spreading their resources and planning for their future.
Are there people who benefitted from apartheid - sure, probably. But many white people were also moved off of land and displaced. African communities also fought other tribes and displaced indigenous tribes. How do you sort out that mess? My family is white but has Khoisan blood so how does that work? You can't just say black people should inherit land that was not necessarily ancestrally theirs and that they did not make a plan to acquire through work or lack of their parents foresight.
@@abt5347 u r hundreds percent right my brother it is time now
We can't live in peace until whites and blacks have their own land. Segregate. Diversity is not a strength.
What's stopping the "bunch " from doing it?
She was clueless and she think. I also think and to me it's literal. If the youth don't even know who Albert Ntuli is? How will they know what the meaning of a struggle song is.
Because there's NO Albert Ntuli. There's Albert Luthuli...
@@Coco-kw3iv OK, they don't even know him. Thanks for correcting me. He was a peaceful man. He believed in dialog not today's ANC RET and EFF rubbish.
I hate racism and believe people are people. Radical people black and white are alike, no difference. Apartheid is a hateful system and if black people hate it why practice it? It didn't fixed anything in the past and it will not fix anything today.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 kiss the boer, kiss the farmer
U can see even journalist s are dissapointed they really wanted something to hold on to.
I like this Case, it's teaching us a lot.and at least fr once someone like malema manage to pass the massage.
But I'm concerned about this country, politics and power.
The chaos of EFF.why is this happens? Where are they taking their follower's,who sponsors them?
But the country is a dying cow,that Eff will finish off.its gonna be the a difficult 100 yrs to come
'Wiens brood jy eet, diens woord jy spreek'
Wat is die dame se agtergrond?
What a load of rubbish she was saying
It rubbish because it doesn't suit the whites rascists(real thiefs in SA) narrative.
@@lebogangmoeketsi1614 it clearly suits your racist narrative.
Really???
@@truth-Hurts375 Yes really! !
@@lebogangmoeketsi1614 and hopefully that real criminal Malema that you learned your hatred from will be prosecuted now.
POOR people, PASSING OVER OPPERTUNITIES REPEATABLY...
!!!!!!
Get over yourselfs, stop playing the blame game.....the struggle????? Over since 1994....
Take responsibility, work to change your circumstances!!!!
Hand outs, hand outs, hand outs. Leaders should stop inciting violence through hatred forged by jealousy which in turn take the eyes of such leaders whom are " STROKING THE CAT".
Word games, word games, word games.
...so, if I'm understanding this woman's interpretation and her understanding of the 'meaning' of the 'song', then there shouldn't be an issue with Afrikaners singing Bok van Blerk's 'De La Rey' or 'Die Stem', if we apply her methods of interpretation like above, correct?
Strangely i think they would not say the same thing if a white south africans said ''shoot the zulus''
Well I still wouldn't sing "burn the witch" but that's just me.
Yea but some might. But you can still read the underlying messages to songs/poems you would sing.
So the lyrics dont mean what its says
Then change the lyrics ?
Funny how you are still disposessed after 27 years of
Aa bee bbeee bbbeee tenders based on skin color???
Words incite violence but not songs? Did Germans have any songs?
That woman can be so glad she is not related to me...
The word "kill" has an objective, or if you prefer, agreed upon definition. Now, whether someone takes that definition literally or not is subjective and personal, evidenced by the fact that this court case exists. (Afriforum certainly seems to think it is or can be taken literally). What I would like to understand is how this woman knows that every singer of this song, ever, knows not to take it literally? Do "freedom fighters" get a memo at birth?
Because Black SAns have been involved in struggle for centuries. They know the difference between a command and a song. It is also a fact that in centuries of a Black struggle, it has never happened.
I could buy their argument if they weren't making fucking finger guns and mimicking gun sounds.
Can one imagine the situation if all those who have been held up at gun point in their homes with family members raped and killed , if they wrote and sang a song “ shoot the blacks “ . I really think any statements or songs that divide vs build the nation should not be allowed , as with hate speech . Academics in general sit on the fence and look for complex reasons . The test should be “ what feelings are evoked by ANY South African listener when they hear songs or statements “ , if negative or provocative they should not be sung.Courts should be putting looters in jail and not wasting time on this. Government has borrowed so much that we pay R 100 billion per year on interest , healthcare is broken , education is broken , safety and security is broken , infrastructure is breaking , water and sanitation are marginal , and on and on - the only beneficiaries enjoying life here are the BBBEE middlemen and their buddies who award tenders to them , plus the businesses that pay the backhanders off shore in Cuban bank accounts . Please can we all work together to fix this country . Each day someone plays the race card to garner votes , is a day lost. I’ve been hearing from government for over 10 years about lifestyle audits but ZERO are done. Just extract a list of all who have properties over R 10 million and cars over R 3 million and ask them where they got the money - this would take 1 month !!!
I hear your last and middle point but your first sentence shows how lacking you are in understanding the African culture in general when it comes to how we sing: it shows the only exposure you have to this is through the media of whcih I sense you have not really exposed yourself to what Julius Malema is saying, you have not even really listened to the professor's presentations entirely you only listened to clips on the media. The struggle songs are not exclusivley composed in a vacuum, they are part of the African culture that spans back centuries way before setlers came to this land. The African culture creates songs in a way that a gospel song can be translated into a struggle song at any moment without losing its meaning. Same can happen with a strugle song becoming a gospel song, same song can in an instant be changed into a sport chant or a sung at a funeral. The essense is that the song leader driven by a specific emotion feeding off the context of the time communicates the energy of that moment to the listener and their joining him in that whattever format choice using that song or chant becomes their consent and unanimous support or agreement to the necessity of that particular choice. You can never understand this when you come from a culture that dictates that every or most of its culture must be composed on a manicured station out of years of study and graduations and all. Africans are spiritual and spontaneous like that, which is why Slaves were always found singing with no means of musical study and lessons.
@@wxesports3121 Thanks for your considered response . I am a 65 year old English speaking south African , who unfortunately has experienced ' the first sentence ' on 4 separate occasions during armed robberies in my home - hence the emotively charged response. My partner is Afrikaans and I was surprised to see the huge disparity in world view , culture , traditions , music , food choices , home roles and responsibilities between her and I , so your comment regarding my total lack of understanding of African Culture is spot on . Culture tolerance , and understanding is a two way street , and I think few would have a problem with a level playing field . My key point was, if people have situational awareness and consideration of others they would know full well that a song containing the words ' shoot the boer ' no matter its history , nuances and culture will cause discomfort to others . It would be like Germans singing ' kill the jews ' and then claiming it was part of their heritage and rallied the nation together against a common enemy . There are many many songs to choose for different occasions , and in my humble opinion one can not obfuscate the issue when reviewing when and on what occasions this particular phrase is sung and by who . It is intentionally selected to frustrate people and full the flames of aggression and division which is not what our country or its people need right now. One takes the best from the past and on that builds a future , If you view the world through the lens of the worst of the past , moving forward will be a continual struggle. I do not come from privilege , grew up in a home where we could only afford candle light so I could study for matric , walked to worked and then kept at it and still work as I can not affords to retire , have no grants , pension but never complain and hope I see the day where we can embrace our differences - in all directions.
And the deeper meaning of the K word is an unbeliever. What is threatening about that. Just as offensive as kill the Boer though.
Isn't the song legally classified as hate speech though?
If Malema was referring to land reform when the song was being sung, why not address land reform instead of singing a song that is classified as hate speech?
Also the "Africa is a country" ideology is completely against what SAns Seem to want, most people seem to want stricter immigration policies and want us to benefit from our country first vs foreigners benefiting.
This is just my opinion.
You got a point. No body is considering the cause of the song, they're focusing only on white security... Shame on this
Your opinion as a whitey doesn’t matter. Let Africans deal with African issues.
Dhubul ibhunu, is our heritage until all forms of oppression are eradicated
When you have a headman and the ground belongs to a chief, you are oppressed.
Yebo
This is funny and sad because at the crux of it is fear (or racism). The very person(s) who lit the fire can't stand it.
They only realize now, that their children stands to lose their stolen legacy.
@@tsheposekonya3108 I hope they realise that they lit the fire and start taking responsibility.
@@lukegetvulnerable696 they relied on their former government for a sense of security, now they are like crying babies intimidated by songs.
Mnx
@@tsheposekonya3108 lol like what the hack!? they studied poetry at the top schools but don't understand metaphors. lol wow!
"Lit the fire" lmao. Blacks have been in charge in South Africa for THIRTY YEARS now. But you're still blaming your actions on the white man and shit that happened long before you were born? Same as in America, same as in every country.
Totally disagree. 👎
And who do we have to thank??? Afriforum .They just make sure that the EFF is growing by the day!!!
They say its a struggle song Well isnt the struggle finish the black people got every thing now Jobs promotions BEE the last bit of whites is surely not a threat.BUT for wat its worth we are deffenetly not going to build this nation to what they can be and adchieve by singing songs like that
Since we are discussing songs, I think Jack Sparrow’s song, Thokolosi gaan jou vang a lang a lang is also underrated.
Hehe
Hahaha
😂😂😂😂
Dhubula! Resistance and courage against a prevailing invasive evil
Brilliant articulative intellectuall woman.
She did badly as an expert witness.
In many instances in this day and age, the word "Boer" has been replaced with "Bunu", which means bum.
Where did she study ,Solly Kramers
It's appalling, to accept the blatant promise if incitement of violence! And apartheid is far in our rear view mirror, really speaking!
No it's not, it is simply been reversed!
Put "farm murder " on the rear view mirror as well
You want us to forget what happened 31 years ago, we are still suffering and oppressed, we don't have the land, minerals or anything.
Gogo must have a 19 year old eff boyfriend. Like Carl Niehaus has a 19 year old black girlfriend.😁
Lol!!! Like your mother
You probably need to look at who pay the bills of her deparment. Last I heard art and the study of culture doesn't pay well.
@@kagi2784 Like your 10 year old sister who is pregnant by Carl.😄
Did you hear the news about the hundreds of 10 year old black girls falling pregnant during lockdown?😏
@@JackSmith-ou1dg nope. If it's 10year olds than it's rape. Can't joke or attack each other with that man. Regardless of differences between us and you'll find that differences aren't even far fetched.
@@kagi2784 White light, but no black light😏
Do the vulnerable ppl understand metaphors
Julius Sello Malema my leader!!! ✊🏿 you sir are what we black people need in this day and age. Now I don't expect white people to like this message because we don't share the same struggles. Aluta ✊🏿🇿🇦
Didn't yall say this 30 years ago? 🤔
Who were ruling the country 30 years ago? But to answer you sir / mam our leaders ( Biko, Hani & Sobukwe ) who stood for the truth and justice for black people have been talking about the land issue and the injustices caused by white government. Now yesterday the court brought an expert to clarify what the song is all about but you still chose to view it as he is insinuating violence, how naive can one be to dismiss the facts put before him?
@@bhekimasina9111 LOL I just asked you what happened in the 30 years of your "black dreams" for the nation. Because you seem to forget that yall have had power for 30 years and all you have done is turn one of the richest countries in Africa into a meaningless junk status country
@@bhekimasina9111 But be careful, you might just realize that 90% of Julius high profile employees/clients are rich white men. And that he sucks us off more than he claims to hate us
@@entireglxy4338 lol how can 30 years change (+ -) 400 years of oppression, the real issue here is that white people still oppress the majority by their systemic racism. You just talking from a place of privilege so I'd be a fool to expect you to understand me..
Evil expert in my opinion. Evil narrative
All the racist on this comment section are hurting 😝
The truth is bleeding their hearts
Look at the dictionary definition of racist and you will see a crystal clear picture of Malema there.
True
@@ebenwiid7140 and then?😳 what’s eating you Papa🤔
@@pilpilncapayi2661 I find it extremely hypocritical when a racist calls other people racist.
What happened at Senekal ? Did the songs not encourage the burning of farms ? Just asking ? Do not allow opportunistic politicians to erode the current spirit of harmony
eCNA a EFF channel?
Farm murders only happen when Julius sings the song?... Interesting observation, smart one indeed. He should stop singing now, farm murders are still happening. The day he stops singing, farm murders will stop as well
Hitler used to say bad things about Jews, but never in public did he say kill them, and guess what happend to the Jews under Hilter?
Mmm,and after all a song cannot influence one like that,
Something is wrong with this people.but this teaches us their level of understanding,they are programmed by system.makema did not start the song,he won't be the last one,
How many songs and vedios we saw on TV of half naked women?did the song motivate women to walk on the streets naked?think about it going to a shop to buy bread just with you underwear,I'm just shooked by these people brains how they prosses information,even half information
@@lucymthembu7021 Well, you need to do research on Hitler and the Jews, it's a culture of hate that builds up with a lot of small things added together will lead to genocide. If words can do no harm then why was the K-word banned?
@@alastair9446 we are not Hitler,we don't want to know about him.deal with us for who we are.
Bringing Hitler is like taking about jesus.peop;e are hurt they never heal ,all Afriforum is doing is pouring salt on the old scar,
Leart to reaserch to relavant people SA people.dont talk about stuff you don't know.share what you know.SA blacks don't know Hitler,we know what happened to our families.
@@lucymthembu7021 You are not Hitler, but you are people just like Germans are , you are people just like Rwanda are people, genocide happens. There is nothing special about this country that would make it immune from genocide. Genocide is always happens with hate speech.
How much was that mamparra prof paid in bribe money????
Song doesn't incite violence, but unfortunately human nature and ignorance is the problem and the issue that should be addressed , this is why a song can become a problem and just changing a word if a sentiment is there already , humans follow blindly and frustrations can lead to a following that can be an issue in the future, I understand her thinking but she obviously knows nothing about human nature, 😉 she can be a learned professor but she isn't a psychologist or a psychiatrist she obviously doesn't know how people are motivated or what motivates them whether a song it's a fine line to future problems and the real outcome of possibilities,, if she thinks a song can't motivate then she is deluded, so a hymn in a church doesn't motivate in a church or religion to worship God,, songs do motivate whether in political landscape just like that in a church or religion,,, big mistake to believe that it doesn't,,,
A song and this specific song my brother doesn't incite any violence, never.... Its not hate speech and if you things this song is hate speech then you yourself don't understand the psychology of black people in SA, they didn't shoot to kill before, why would they suddenly start shooting to kill now? And what's the worry, don't panic, you are very safe in SA, you are just not safe from crime, not that there is a system in black people who aim at killing or shooting white people
Motheo (Foundation) You can’t say it doesn’t incite fecking violence when the title of the song is “shoot the boer”. People are bending over backwards to try and justify this song as not hateful, I wonder if the same effort would have been giving if the tables were turned?? If you just look at the context and circumstances under which it was sung. It was during the trial of a man accused of committing a gruesome murder against a farmer, and then the EFF shows up singing a song called “Shoot the Boer” and now they are trying to act innocent? What bull sh**!!!
@@motheofoundation2729 farm murders are cruel and people are totured to death even babies.This is not crime these murders are political incited by your murder songs you should be ashamed of youself.
go find me a song by the Boers, when being killed by Zulus or the British Army, which spoke about murder and death?
I'll wait.....
@@julieprinsloo2232 What's the % of farm murders to the murders in SA???? You can't just wake up because you are part of a race and want to exaggerate your race experiencing murder...
There are people being killed in farms yes but there is no system that is incited by a song to kill farmers, White farmers to be exactly... There are white people being killed there but there are also black farm workers being killed there, so if you really want to solve the issue, leave your privilege mindset and build a country thT is inclusive, you'll always be at a state of panic, you think during apartheid we were not tortured just for simply knowing a person, don't tell me about horrific! I know way more and the one who once started the fire can't seem to stand it
Malema is is a THUG and a warlord
From where is this women ??