Bikes like these are even more of a reason you need to understand the sizing, get a bike fit, test the bike before you buy and maybe use a seperate stem/ bar combo until you find the right fit at which point you can upgrade and get the one piece bar stem with internal routing. I wouldn’t buy a bike off the peg like this unless the dealer will swap out parts for no extra cost.
Good luck if you buy something online. Is Canyon gonna change it for you? I doubt it and despite all their charts and graphs you only REALLY know if it's all good when you climb on the bike and try it. If not, it's a real PITA to change anything. Opening up a perfectly functioning hydro system just to change a bar/stem? AAAGGGHHHH! The "F1-ization" of high-end bikes has gone too far. Run cables/hoses/wires inside the frame, but let 'em come out somewhere near the headtube so they can be run under the bar tape rather than internally though bar/stem.
Im a home mechanic thats built about 9 bikes now and I, myself am going from a fully integraded emonda sl with dura ace 9170 to a tcr advanced pro. In my cycling journey I've personally matured into valuing fit, function, comfort and stability over integration. May be sacrificing a little speed but that's still to be discovered for me.
It does look cleaner but my mechanic says it's a nightmare and the cost of labour goes up for the customer every time I see that Cannondale it just looks a beautiful.
Love the look, but I think the designs can still probably be improved to make maintenance easier. Also being able to order the right width/stem-length when you order a new bike would help!
When you know your bike fit, it isn't a problem. But every beginner should avoid fully internal routing for this reason. On my first road bike I swapped the stem and spacers around a couple times until I had my perfect fit.
@@MattRose30000it’s still a problem because manufacturers don’t have many options and measures to customize, and if you buy one right away it comes mostly in 44
"If you still remember shifters with the cables exiting out of the side"???? One of my bikes uses 7800, another two use 7700. All of them use "wired" bike computers with the wire coiled down the front brake housing, and then coiled down the left shift cable, to a rear wheel pickup. I'm not a complete Luddite. I also use a GPS wrist computer, mounted on the bars, that shows my HR, and can be downloaded, showing map features, and performance data. I'm old now, so I run a 12-25 on all bikes. 10 years ago, I'd use a 12-23 for just about anything. 25 years ago, it was a 21. I'd never spend my money on a bike with hidden everything, and disc brakes. Same with one piece bar/stem combos.
One of the advantages of having a retro-inspired steel bike with external cable routing, is that you just don't feel the pressure to keep up with the trends and the fashion cycles, as one is already behind the thing that is about to become out of date. Steel is real ... and timeless.
No thanks, fully integrated cables are just dumb to me, the cost of maintenance cramming all that stuff in there where you can't get at it. Nope. 99% of us are going nowhere near fast enough to make any "aero" argument here either. Bikes have cables/ hoses. that's part of the aesthetic to me - not a detraction from it.
I think the Giant TCR is a good mix. Wireless shifters and external brake cables. Certainly makes traveling with a bike easier. Will never convince me that external brake cables will make any difference in performance.
Oh none of it makes the blindest bit of difference to the average rider but then nor does having a £5k bike vs a £2k bike. A huge part of buying any product is how it makes you feel and whether you just "want it".
I have FSA 69 system. I would name it Semi-internal, looks good, quite practical and easy to swap step or handlebar. Uses same standard round spacers that can be bought anywhere.
Integrated cables look very sleek. But I feel like they cause the cables to turn tightly and cause friction in the cables. Another issue is serviceability, and transport can be difficult too. For these reason, I like the way the Emonda is semi integrated.
Internals at the headset is way too much trouble. After 40 years of riding, silver brazing frames, taking care of my own bikes, and years of owning bikes with internal routed cables, they are just too much trouble to service.
Pro Tip - for fully integrated mechanical use Jagwire Elite Sealed shift cable and skip the short flexible cable for the handle bars. I have fantastic shifting on 2 fully integrated bikss
We don’t all like electric gears, so internal is a no go from me. A properly set up mechanical group is a joy, and having fashion victims ruin shift performance is just annoying and very stupid.
A pro to internally routed mechanical shifting, if done properly, it lasts for AGES as it's not exposed to elements. Before it was stolen my bike had the same cables for 3 years without anything more than turning the barrel adjuster. But yes, you do have to strip the bike to do. But do it as part of a full service.
The main concern I have with fully integrated cockpits is the potential for rattling. I HAAAATE rattling of any kind (not only on the bike) and it drives me crazy. On exposed cable housing, locating and eliminating rattles is waaay easier. Other than that, I don't really work on my brake cables or hoses myself, nor on my headset bearings, but I do tend to mess with my fit sometimes, and I do like to be able to travel with my bike once or twice a year... so yeah, integrated one piece handlebars are not my thing, as cool as they do look
External for the win. Far easier to maintain, swap parts, and to travel with. Travelling with my internal cable routed bike is a pain. The handlebars/stem with internal cable routing can't move to where I need them to go in the box and require so much extra care and attention when packing. External cables can also be colour matched to the frame or made to stand out from the standard black.
While I think it is a mandatory option for manufacturers on mid to high-end bikes, the average rider benefits much more from an easy to maintain and adjust setup. Unfortunately, the cost of designing multiple versions of a frameset that offers full integration in the high-end and semi-integration or external routing in the entry range seems to be cost prohibitive.
My main issue with external routing is that cables or hydraulics are scratch the paint, on the front of the frame, at the fork level... even on my latest bike that is semi integrated. We have nicer technologies today, but QC seems to be lacking on many levels.
Thanks for review. I’m a lover of the clean looks (I wash every day 😂) but I also love to fiddle with bike fit, upgrades & maintenance. I run Di2 and discs and tie together external cables with shrink tube to make my Roubaix look cleaner.
When my new Tarmac SL7 arrived, the first thing I did was change the 42cm alloy bars for 40cm carbon aero bars. Routing 2 hoses was easy (thanks Di2). Meant that when the Diverge needed a groupset upgrade, I had to go 105 Di2 to reduce cable clutter and clean up the front as much as possible. So glad I did. No going back to clutter now! My rim brake bikes provide all the external cable nostalgia I’ll ever need!
I have worked on a few during my job and some are better than others. I owned a Cervelo Caledonia 5 for a while with Sram AXS. Some of the best internal routing in my experience. Replaced some bearings in headset after 2 years ( cheap bearings fitted maybe?). 30 min job. Unthreaded hoses ( no trimming which is sometimes the case!)and unwrapped tape and removed bars. (Cervelo have a neat recess on bars so cables don't go through them only stem). Swap bearings and reassemble! No bleeding required and all working spot on! If you had Shimano may be different as they have larger fitting bolts on hoses and won't go through headset spacer so cutting is required! Cervelo's first S5 with the y style bar also had the best mechanical routing. Unfortunately the newer models have revised ports in frame so now are electronic only which makes sense now i spose!
Speaking of mechanical groupsets in bikes with integrated internal routing, I built a Specialized S-Works Tarmac SL7 with Dura-Ace R9120 back in September 2020, with some of its components transferred from my customer's S-Works Tarmac SL6. At that time, I was one of the first in my nation to build a Tarmac SL7 in this manner and I may still be the only person in the company I used to work for that has done so. The bike shifted as fine as I expected, can't say it's buttery smooth (will need slick-coated cables to achieve this), but it's smooth enough to not deem it tirelessly rough.
For most people, fitting/setting of your bike is a one time hassel and manufacturers usually set for the average consumer target so there isn't a lot of fitting to be done in terms of handle or stem length anyway. Maintenance could be an issue, but only once in a few years or if you have a crack so not a frequent problem either. The asthetic satisfaction and slight performance increase are with you everyday.
Internal routing is for people, who happily pay others to do all their mechanics. External routing is for people who love to work and understand their bikes. Although, full internal routing wins in terms of looks.
I own a Winspace T1500 and i built it with the external cable routing option. The 2 reasons are that i own a travel box (the B&W Bike Box II) and i need to take off the handle bar from the stem to make it fit (i don't want to buy an other bigger box). And the seconde reason is maintenance, even as a mechanic i don't want to bother myself to much with fully integrated cables...
You're still on internal routing, just not as integrated. You're on what's now classified as regular internal routing. If the shift and brake lines enter the frame at any point, it's not external routing. The latter term is only used for frames where nothing goes inside them, such as the Genesis Equilibrium, Colnago Arabesque, etc.
My Pinarello F8 with rim brakes has one cable with the rear brake cable and a Di2 wire shrunk wrapped to the brake cable. I really don't think that exposed once cable makes a difference at all for my performance. What a pain to maintain
I'm seriously considering buying a Niner Sir 9 or a Norco Search XR S2 to future-proof myself against this internally routed cable trend. Internal routing looks great, but there's something to be said about simplicity and ease-of-maintenance.
It makes it hard buying bikes with integrated cockpits off the floor/shelf BUT if you have gotten a bike fit and therefore know your measurements for the bar and stem, plus if your mechanic or whoever worked on the cockpit is top-notch, there are very few downsides left of having integrated bar and stems. I've owned and ridden bikes with such for more than 3 years now and honestly never had an issue with having to fix or adjust anything.
Thanks again David! I own both types of bikes and I’m a fan of both internal and external systems. I realize most folks don’t have the time, knowledge or ability to work on their own bikes. I personally enjoy the maintenance aspect of bikes as much as riding them so that gives me a bit of an advantage.
I hate external cable routing on my gravel and commuting bike because it gets in the way of barbags (I use smaller frames, so I don't have much wiggle room to move them without interfering with the wheel or creating unnecesary tension when steering), and I have to be a bit careful when strapping on the light, buuut to service them is so much easier
I have raced on my SL6 for 3 years now, with more than 30.000km (give or take), the ceramic headset bearings are still in great condition. I maintain my bikes myself so until now I was reluctant but i dont really see much speaking against fully internal at this point. Re-bleeding the breaks every 12 months isn't all that hard and for shimano a bleed kit is super cheap.
I don’t really like it. The maintenance home is problem. I can change external cables myself, but I’m not touching internal cabling. So I’ll be spending more at the bike shop.😢
Love the look but that would be a nightmare for mechanical shifting. Not only for the shifting performance but the annual cable and housing replacement would be a disaster. Would only consider it for electronic shifting.
As for the wiring - Di2 or any other kind of electric system - hidden inside the frame is cool to have. Classic wire pulled by shifters? Definitely external one.
@@Montrealcycling yes, I could install a one piece handlebar-stem if I wanted, for cheap. The price is not the indicator here. There are some cheap carbon cockpits there. It has more to do with: do you really want a one piece setup? Not me, I always play with different stem lengths and bar widths...
Semi-routing is the best comrpmise, when you have electronic grouoset, simply you don't have to uses it. But, when thre is no option, you can always uses compessionless cables (as I adid in TIME ALDH 2023 frameset), it works even better, since mechanical steal cables have no contact with the frame. Some front derailleurs like Campagnolo have no option for cable stopper in their design, with Shimano there is no problem.
Only four front derailleurs in the world work with any road frameset that supports mechanical groupsets: 105 FD-R7000 105 FD-R7100 Ultegra FD-R8000 Dura-Ace FD-R9100
Bout to upgrade my addict 30 with IC SL X handle bars! Can’t wait for that sexy look!! Cables shown are old fashion. It’s evolutionary, I’m always upgrading!!! 😈
I think you can replace the lower headset bearing (on the fork crown) without disconnecting brake hoses, and that's the one that takes the most load and most corrosion. Just drop the fork out?
No, it'll be held captive by the front brake hose. However, it's only true if it's on a rim brake variant like the Dogma F, where nothing goes inside the steerer tube, but not something like the fifth and sixth-generation Madone's rim brake variants. One of the only bikes with integrated internal routing that can allow for headset bearing removal without having to recable the bike is the third-generation Cannondale SuperSix EVO, but the shift and brake lines need to have a lot of slack to make this possible, maybe more slack than it's advisable.
Oh, stop it, internal cabling is pure nonsense and a scam from the bicycle industry! And everyone falls for it! I've had a Canyon Aeroad with internal cables and nothing but misery! And now I have a TCR with external cables and it's wonderful and I can just do my own maintenance!
The TCR Advanced's routing configuration is classified as regular internal routing, not external routing. You can't see the full length of the shift and brake lines outside the bike. Bikes like the Genesis Equilibrium are considered to run external routing as nothing goes inside the frame.
I've never changed my bearings either, but that's because I can easily service my headset by completely dismantling and cleaning the front end..........with external cabling, of course.
Over the last 20 years, the only bike that needed a headset bearing replacement was a MTB. Never on a road bike. Hopefully, MTBs will never go internal.
My Shimano shifters with 'wires sprouting out the sides' shift with very little finger pressure. My other bike with 105 and internal cable routing through the bars, but otherwise externally routed, takes a LOT more pressure.
There is a chance the internal routing work wasn't well done. Most of my internal routing work has smooth-operating shift lines. You could try slick-coated or Teflon-coated shift cables (not Shimano's) on your next replacement.
Manufacturers love headset routing simply because the frames are easier and cheaper to produce. Less stress points without the separate holes for cables and fewer steps and tools in the molds
Internal 💯. There is a perfect conduit to put the cables. Why attach cables to the outside of it? I work on my own bikes and I have never worked so little and ridden so much compared to my older bikes. Even the cables on my motorcycle aren't very difficult to deal with and some have to be un/fastened blind.
Internal cable routing, electric gears and disc brakes- ALL SUCK. Bought a new TCR last year with none of these- looks like that bike will be the last new TCR I will ever buy for as long as I live.
My bike is all internal. Disc brakes require no service to the pipes so pretty easy. Mine is mechanical Ultegra and I've changed both sets of cable twice and it was really simple and easy as it's all guided internally. Pop the cable in at the shifter and pops out near the rear derailleur. Headset service is possible without taking it all apart it's tricky but can be done. Changing the liners or the headset bearings would be a pig but just requires time. I would imagine it starts getting expensive if you don't do your own servicing. Thinking of going back to di2 and then it's just fit and forget.
@@whizlerIntegrated internal routing does make packing a bike for travelling harder (or even impossible), even more so if you try to pack it in a cardboard box. For example, the Émonda (carbon) can't steer beyond 180° lock-to-lock due to the steer stop. If there's not enough slack in the shift and brake lines, it's not possible to remove the cockpit from the steerer tube. For bikes with integrated internal routing, the most convenient option is the BikeBox Alan Triathlon Aero Easyfit, where only the wheels and pedals need to be removed. The bike is stored inside the box upside-down when you roll it around.
Like any other stem, you undo the bolts and remove the handlebars. Takes about the same time too. Or other option is a large BikeBox Alan. Which means you just need to remove wheels and possibly the rear derailleur. It's such a time saver, but it's bloody big!
@@designbyplay Not to mention, expensive, even more so for the one I mentioned and not everybody is willing to buy one. If it were me, I would, but I've never owned a bike with integrated internal routing anyway.
I own an Aethos so I'm OK with exposed brake lines but, I gotta admit I do dig them MoMo one piece handles bars. Back when I used to race Auto-cross(MX5), I would switch out the stock Mazda wheel for a MoMo, the car always felt faster with a MOMO.
In next generations they will adopt the system so it is easy to work on. They have to make changes so they can sell new bikes. One of the new changes will be to make it easy to change stuff. Canyon is doing it already with resizable bar width and stack hight without cutting steerer tube. Internal cable routing will probably be next. They have to "innovate" or we would never buy new stuff.
Regular internal routing is all I ever need. I currently have two road frames with this configuration and are likely my last mass-production road frames ever.
Regarding marginal wattage gains: pro riders need them, but pro riders have pro mechanics. For most people who buy bikes with internal cabling, it's all about aesthetics. As David noted, relatively inexpensive bikes are going internal, and you simply can't argue that the marginal aerodynamic efficiency gains afforded by internal cabling make a useful difference to a person buying a $1000 bike. Furthermore, why have a nice clean headset and still have that ugly drive train just hanging out there for all to see? And only on one side, so the whole bike looks asymmetrical. Yuk! What an eyesore! Come on, bike industry. Get that fixed.
At this point if you are not rich or racing is like owning a Di2: too much hassle for something so simple yet so well executed in the past. It’s not bad, it’s just stupidly expensive to not work 100% right
@@borisgurevich5504 Exactly. One of the first papers I wrote as a grad student in rhetoric defined fashion vs. style. One of the key points of that essay is that fashion is primarily externally driven (influenced by others), but style is internally driven (influenced by the self). I prefer riding a bike with visibly external cables doing the shifting and the braking. Based on my definitions from all those years ago, that's clearly not fashion; it is style.
@@rangersmith4652 in your original comment you said aesthetics, which could be style or fashion. I’ve clarified it. But I don’t mind fashion if it has no drawbacks. But if shifting is harder then it is ridiculous. I guess the same is true about mechanical disc brakes on road bikes
Just move to a brake by wire electro servo controlled braking system and you can get rid of all those messy hydraulics. I’m sure someone could even come up with a wireless version. Of course at that point your bike will cost as much as an F1 car but I’m sure there are people out there who can afford it. I recently had to clean and lube the headset on my old Cervelo with external routing, easy peasy. I would probably leave that same job to my mechanic on my new internally routed bike but I won’t have to worry about that for awhile.
Hello, i am ok we don't change headset bearings before some years of use but there's to clean and put some grease the bearings area, it is possible to do that without disconnect the brake hose? If yes, it's not so bad...
Between disc brakes internal cable routing and rim brake internal cable routing I'm all for disc brake internal routing. Being a former owner of a Canyon Speedmax with rim brake Internal routing I can say it was a nightmare. So, bring more inovation. I'm wating for the day that disc brake calipers will be fully integrated with the frame. Hopefully in the future it will be affordable.
Moving to internal headset cable routing was a deal breaker for me. I’ve had a lot Giants and love my current Defy and was excited for the new model. But no sale. They’ve lost the gimmick free design that made it great.
Ha ha! I still ride a bike with Shimano 4500 shifters (with the cables sticking out the sides). Personally can't wait until I can update my ride to some sleek, clean, aero new deal. I feel for the mechanics (read - me) having to fiddle with them but the look is undeniably svelte and I'll take the gain of a couple of watts as a bonus. Resistance to this smacks of the resistance to disc brakes, just 'stick in the mud' nonsense. Both innovations are simply better.
If the shift and brake lines enter the frame at any point, whether it passes through the headset assembly or not, it's classified as internal routing. However, with the emergence of integrated internal routing, I now classify them. Regular internal routing: Specialized Tarmac SL4 - SL6, first-generation Specialized Allez Sprint, Cannondale CAAD12, etc. Integrated internal routing: Specialized Tarmac SL7, Trek Madone (fifth-generation onwards), Specialized Venge ViAS (rim brake), etc.
Got myself a lower end Scott Speedster Gravel at the beginning of 2022, because I wanted a full aluminium frame and fork. Came with Tiagra groupset and mechanical disc brakes. Had no issue whatsoever, even with mechanical brakes. Took it apart and put it back together multiple times, as I have always meant to experiment with it and build it up to my liking and specs while keeping the frameset only. At the moment it is running a 1x GRX with 812 RD and 11-46 cassette, with GRX 600 levers and hydraulic brakes. No issues whatsoever, shifts and breaks perfectly and has been doing so in this setup for over 1000km now. And to be quite honest, Scotts cable routing through the steerer tube and then under the stem is not bad at all. Pretty soon it will go to 11-51 in the back, with the same RD, and I expect it to work flawlessly in that configuration too. Personally, I would always go with internal routing due to the clean looks, even if it requires more work while servicing or replacing parts. I just can´t stand the sight of exposed cables and hoses. And the naked shift cables are by far the worst. My girlfriend has a Norco Search that runs the shift cable naked down the downtube to the chainstay, and the thing just makes my stomach roll whenever I look at it, on an otherwise very good looking bike.
do not fall into the trap of poeple saying internal routing is difficult to service. If you really understand what to do, servicing the headset, adjust gearing cables or bleeding the brake fluid would not take more 20 mins, super easy.
6:55 Seriously? I have only one (road) bike and disassembled the front fork just once - a year ago (after like 12 years of use). Just to deep-clean the caliper brakes and grease the head tube bearings. Didn't replaced them. What for? If the bike is well handled and maintained (clean), there's no way to kill them. Is it? Front wheel hub will die way sooner than the head tube.
That's only if it stays that way, but you can't assume all riders to be disciplined on bike care and maintenance. Almost all riders I know never rinse their bikes post-ride, even for a little bit. There will always be a handful of lazy ones out there with the damage coming back to bite them in the future.
His choice of words are poor (as with almost everybody I've ever come across, if not everybody), he meant to say bikes without integrated routing (shift and brake lines route through the headset). This is what I now classify as regular internal routing. Shift and brake lines still route internally, but not through the headset assembly.
The maintenance and replacement issues you said don't seem big deal is because bikes you ride were designed to only be used a few years. People who worry about this, are people who want to ride their bike for 15-30 years. But obviously these modern $10,000 bikes are really made to encourage morons to upgrade every 2-3 years.
Any integrated internal routing-configured bike with a two-piece cockpit that features no internal routing inside the stem is the best possible choice. Specialized Tarmac SL7 Specialized Venge (third-generation) Trek Émonda (carbon) And more
I have had to regrease my headset bearings since the grease turns into liquid and leaks. However it gets up to 110F+ in the summer of my garage, and this is with unsealed headsets. I will always prefer external routing since I like mechanical shifting. I am not winning races, so more aero drag is fine.
I do the maintenance on my bike... and internal cables are a paaaaaaiiiin. External may not look great, but it's way easier on my maintenance routine `:P
It will never happen, no industry ever successfully managed to implement such a safety feature without redundancy, to something giving no human feedback and with such high risk if failure happens..look how motorbikes work, a much more mature and regulationrun industry, and they don't have wireless breaking systems.
Just ordered the new Giant Propel with mechanical 105, to replace my 7 y.o. TCR Advanced also with 105. I hope the shift feel will be okay on the new one, and I hope in 2-3 years I will be able to upgrade to electronic shifting I hope it will last for that time. As for maintenance and replacing headset bearings ... I have never changed them on my TCR in 7 years and after over 20000km. On my gravel bike however ... after 2 years I had to take it apart. so it depends on the conditions you ride I guess.
Definetly hate it! For me fit customization is highest priority, so I'd always go for "cable aesthetics" :)
Bikes like these are even more of a reason you need to understand the sizing, get a bike fit, test the bike before you buy and maybe use a seperate stem/ bar combo until you find the right fit at which point you can upgrade and get the one piece bar stem with internal routing. I wouldn’t buy a bike off the peg like this unless the dealer will swap out parts for no extra cost.
Good luck if you buy something online. Is Canyon gonna change it for you? I doubt it and despite all their charts and graphs you only REALLY know if it's all good when you climb on the bike and try it. If not, it's a real PITA to change anything. Opening up a perfectly functioning hydro system just to change a bar/stem? AAAGGGHHHH!
The "F1-ization" of high-end bikes has gone too far. Run cables/hoses/wires inside the frame, but let 'em come out somewhere near the headtube so they can be run under the bar tape rather than internally though bar/stem.
Im a home mechanic thats built about 9 bikes now and I, myself am going from a fully integraded emonda sl with dura ace 9170 to a tcr advanced pro. In my cycling journey I've personally matured into valuing fit, function, comfort and stability over integration. May be sacrificing a little speed but that's still to be discovered for me.
That's a glow-up right there, good on you for learning and realising what actually matters.
It does look cleaner but my mechanic says it's a nightmare and the cost of labour goes up for the customer every time I see that Cannondale it just looks a beautiful.
Love the look, but I think the designs can still probably be improved to make maintenance easier.
Also being able to order the right width/stem-length when you order a new bike would help!
When you know your bike fit, it isn't a problem. But every beginner should avoid fully internal routing for this reason. On my first road bike I swapped the stem and spacers around a couple times until I had my perfect fit.
@@MattRose30000it’s still a problem because manufacturers don’t have many options and measures to customize, and if you buy one right away it comes mostly in 44
I will not buy a bike I can't easily maintain at home. Full internal routing as it stands today isn't for me.
Totally agree with you
"If you still remember shifters with the cables exiting out of the side"???? One of my bikes uses 7800, another two use 7700. All of them use "wired" bike computers with the wire coiled down the front brake housing, and then coiled down the left shift cable, to a rear wheel pickup. I'm not a complete Luddite. I also use a GPS wrist computer, mounted on the bars, that shows my HR, and can be downloaded, showing map features, and performance data. I'm old now, so I run a 12-25 on all bikes. 10 years ago, I'd use a 12-23 for just about anything. 25 years ago, it was a 21.
I'd never spend my money on a bike with hidden everything, and disc brakes. Same with one piece bar/stem combos.
One of the advantages of having a retro-inspired steel bike with external cable routing, is that you just don't feel the pressure to keep up with the trends and the fashion cycles, as one is already behind the thing that is about to become out of date. Steel is real ... and timeless.
No thanks, fully integrated cables are just dumb to me, the cost of maintenance
cramming all that stuff in there where you can't get at it. Nope.
99% of us are going nowhere near fast enough to make any "aero" argument here either.
Bikes have cables/ hoses. that's part of the aesthetic to me - not a detraction from it.
I think the Giant TCR is a good mix. Wireless shifters and external brake cables. Certainly makes traveling with a bike easier. Will never convince me that external brake cables will make any difference in performance.
Oh none of it makes the blindest bit of difference to the average rider but then nor does having a £5k bike vs a £2k bike. A huge part of buying any product is how it makes you feel and whether you just "want it".
snap!
Specialized would prove it to you that it’s 4 seconds faster on 40km. 😂
It’s all BS but people are buying it just like anything else.
Integrated cockpits are difficult to travel with, especially in bike bags on aeroplanes.
I have FSA 69 system. I would name it Semi-internal, looks good, quite practical and easy to swap step or handlebar. Uses same standard round spacers that can be bought anywhere.
Integrated cables look very sleek. But I feel like they cause the cables to turn tightly and cause friction in the cables. Another issue is serviceability, and transport can be difficult too. For these reason, I like the way the Emonda is semi integrated.
I think my ideal bike would have the cables integrated into the head set, but external to the stem.
It's an issue with cables but not with hydraulic liquid. They can handle sharp bends
@@Eirikkinserdal Sharper bends. Hydraulic wont like something to extreme too.
Yup, and it might get out off whack after traveling etc.
Internals at the headset is way too much trouble. After 40 years of riding, silver brazing frames, taking care of my own bikes, and years of owning bikes with internal routed cables, they are just too much trouble to service.
Pro Tip - for fully integrated mechanical use Jagwire Elite Sealed shift cable and skip the short flexible cable for the handle bars. I have fantastic shifting on 2 fully integrated bikss
We don’t all like electric gears, so internal is a no go from me.
A properly set up mechanical group is a joy, and having fashion victims ruin shift performance is just annoying and very stupid.
A pro to internally routed mechanical shifting, if done properly, it lasts for AGES as it's not exposed to elements. Before it was stolen my bike had the same cables for 3 years without anything more than turning the barrel adjuster. But yes, you do have to strip the bike to do. But do it as part of a full service.
The main concern I have with fully integrated cockpits is the potential for rattling. I HAAAATE rattling of any kind (not only on the bike) and it drives me crazy. On exposed cable housing, locating and eliminating rattles is waaay easier. Other than that, I don't really work on my brake cables or hoses myself, nor on my headset bearings, but I do tend to mess with my fit sometimes, and I do like to be able to travel with my bike once or twice a year... so yeah, integrated one piece handlebars are not my thing, as cool as they do look
It happened to me and it's driving me nuts.
External for the win. Far easier to maintain, swap parts, and to travel with. Travelling with my internal cable routed bike is a pain. The handlebars/stem with internal cable routing can't move to where I need them to go in the box and require so much extra care and attention when packing. External cables can also be colour matched to the frame or made to stand out from the standard black.
While I think it is a mandatory option for manufacturers on mid to high-end bikes, the average rider benefits much more from an easy to maintain and adjust setup. Unfortunately, the cost of designing multiple versions of a frameset that offers full integration in the high-end and semi-integration or external routing in the entry range seems to be cost prohibitive.
My main issue with external routing is that cables or hydraulics are scratch the paint, on the front of the frame, at the fork level... even on my latest bike that is semi integrated.
We have nicer technologies today, but QC seems to be lacking on many levels.
Thanks for review. I’m a lover of the clean looks (I wash every day 😂) but I also love to fiddle with bike fit, upgrades & maintenance. I run Di2 and discs and tie together external cables with shrink tube to make my Roubaix look cleaner.
When my new Tarmac SL7 arrived, the first thing I did was change the 42cm alloy bars for 40cm carbon aero bars. Routing 2 hoses was easy (thanks Di2). Meant that when the Diverge needed a groupset upgrade, I had to go 105 Di2 to reduce cable clutter and clean up the front as much as possible. So glad I did. No going back to clutter now! My rim brake bikes provide all the external cable nostalgia I’ll ever need!
Same here. Upgraded my Di2 levers and took opportunity to reroute cables to clean up the front end (thanks Lama for rerouting vid)
RIM BRAKE FOR THE WIN!!!
I have worked on a few during my job and some are better than others.
I owned a Cervelo Caledonia 5 for a while with Sram AXS.
Some of the best internal routing in my experience.
Replaced some bearings in headset after 2 years ( cheap bearings fitted maybe?).
30 min job.
Unthreaded hoses ( no trimming which is sometimes the case!)and unwrapped tape and removed bars. (Cervelo have a neat recess on bars so cables don't go through them only stem).
Swap bearings and reassemble!
No bleeding required and all working spot on!
If you had Shimano may be different as they have larger fitting bolts on hoses and won't go through headset spacer so cutting is required!
Cervelo's first S5 with the y style bar also had the best mechanical routing.
Unfortunately the newer models have revised ports in frame so now are electronic only which makes sense now i spose!
Speaking of mechanical groupsets in bikes with integrated internal routing, I built a Specialized S-Works Tarmac SL7 with Dura-Ace R9120 back in September 2020, with some of its components transferred from my customer's S-Works Tarmac SL6. At that time, I was one of the first in my nation to build a Tarmac SL7 in this manner and I may still be the only person in the company I used to work for that has done so.
The bike shifted as fine as I expected, can't say it's buttery smooth (will need slick-coated cables to achieve this), but it's smooth enough to not deem it tirelessly rough.
For most people, fitting/setting of your bike is a one time hassel and manufacturers usually set for the average consumer target so there isn't a lot of fitting to be done in terms of handle or stem length anyway.
Maintenance could be an issue, but only once in a few years or if you have a crack so not a frequent problem either.
The asthetic satisfaction and slight performance increase are with you everyday.
Internal routing is for people, who happily pay others to do all their mechanics. External routing is for people who love to work and understand their bikes. Although, full internal routing wins in terms of looks.
Internal routing is super neat but cables don’t bother me .
I own a Winspace T1500 and i built it with the external cable routing option.
The 2 reasons are that i own a travel box (the B&W Bike Box II) and i need to take off the handle bar from the stem to make it fit (i don't want to buy an other bigger box).
And the seconde reason is maintenance, even as a mechanic i don't want to bother myself to much with fully integrated cables...
You're still on internal routing, just not as integrated. You're on what's now classified as regular internal routing.
If the shift and brake lines enter the frame at any point, it's not external routing. The latter term is only used for frames where nothing goes inside them, such as the Genesis Equilibrium, Colnago Arabesque, etc.
I think looks cool, but the gains are ridiculous, next will be aero bolts
As more and more local shops close down and you are forced to order D2C, people are going to be wishing external routing was still common.
My Pinarello F8 with rim brakes has one cable with the rear brake cable and a Di2 wire shrunk wrapped to the brake cable. I really don't think that exposed once cable makes a difference at all for my performance. What a pain to maintain
I'm seriously considering buying a Niner Sir 9 or a Norco Search XR S2 to future-proof myself against this internally routed cable trend. Internal routing looks great, but there's something to be said about simplicity and ease-of-maintenance.
It makes it hard buying bikes with integrated cockpits off the floor/shelf BUT if you have gotten a bike fit and therefore know your measurements for the bar and stem, plus if your mechanic or whoever worked on the cockpit is top-notch, there are very few downsides left of having integrated bar and stems. I've owned and ridden bikes with such for more than 3 years now and honestly never had an issue with having to fix or adjust anything.
Thanks again David! I own both types of bikes and I’m a fan of both internal and external systems. I realize most folks don’t have the time, knowledge or ability to work on their own bikes. I personally enjoy the maintenance aspect of bikes as much as riding them so that gives me a bit of an advantage.
I hate external cable routing on my gravel and commuting bike because it gets in the way of barbags (I use smaller frames, so I don't have much wiggle room to move them without interfering with the wheel or creating unnecesary tension when steering), and I have to be a bit careful when strapping on the light, buuut to service them is so much easier
I have raced on my SL6 for 3 years now, with more than 30.000km (give or take), the ceramic headset bearings are still in great condition. I maintain my bikes myself so until now I was reluctant but i dont really see much speaking against fully internal at this point. Re-bleeding the breaks every 12 months isn't all that hard and for shimano a bleed kit is super cheap.
I don’t really like it. The maintenance home is problem. I can change external cables myself, but I’m not touching internal cabling. So I’ll be spending more at the bike shop.😢
I have a 2018 SuperSix and a 2023 SuperSix CX. Both have SRAM. With the wireless groupsets, it doesn't look bad at all with only two brake hoses.
Love the look but that would be a nightmare for mechanical shifting. Not only for the shifting performance but the annual cable and housing replacement would be a disaster. Would only consider it for electronic shifting.
As for the wiring - Di2 or any other kind of electric system - hidden inside the frame is cool to have. Classic wire pulled by shifters? Definitely external one.
Bikes with integrated cockpits are expensive so owners can afford higher cost of maintenance or replacing it for better fit.
Not really... I have 3 bikes with semi - integrated cockpit, all 3 are fairly cheap.
@@TeoSlugayou said it semi integrated…
@@Montrealcycling yes, I could install a one piece handlebar-stem if I wanted, for cheap. The price is not the indicator here. There are some cheap carbon cockpits there. It has more to do with: do you really want a one piece setup? Not me, I always play with different stem lengths and bar widths...
It looks nice but it’s not necessary. I’ll pass. Long live my Aethos!
Semi-routing is the best comrpmise, when you have electronic grouoset, simply you don't have to uses it. But, when thre is no option, you can always uses compessionless cables (as I adid in TIME ALDH 2023 frameset), it works even better, since mechanical steal cables have no contact with the frame. Some front derailleurs like Campagnolo have no option for cable stopper in their design, with Shimano there is no problem.
Only four front derailleurs in the world work with any road frameset that supports mechanical groupsets:
105 FD-R7000
105 FD-R7100
Ultegra FD-R8000
Dura-Ace FD-R9100
Bout to upgrade my addict 30 with IC SL X handle bars! Can’t wait for that sexy look!! Cables shown are old fashion. It’s evolutionary, I’m always upgrading!!! 😈
I think you can replace the lower headset bearing (on the fork crown) without disconnecting brake hoses, and that's the one that takes the most load and most corrosion. Just drop the fork out?
No, it'll be held captive by the front brake hose. However, it's only true if it's on a rim brake variant like the Dogma F, where nothing goes inside the steerer tube, but not something like the fifth and sixth-generation Madone's rim brake variants.
One of the only bikes with integrated internal routing that can allow for headset bearing removal without having to recable the bike is the third-generation Cannondale SuperSix EVO, but the shift and brake lines need to have a lot of slack to make this possible, maybe more slack than it's advisable.
Oh, stop it, internal cabling is pure nonsense and a scam from the bicycle industry! And everyone falls for it! I've had a Canyon Aeroad with internal cables and nothing but misery! And now I have a TCR with external cables and it's wonderful and I can just do my own maintenance!
The TCR Advanced's routing configuration is classified as regular internal routing, not external routing. You can't see the full length of the shift and brake lines outside the bike.
Bikes like the Genesis Equilibrium are considered to run external routing as nothing goes inside the frame.
Misery,how so?
The new bike I'm building has only semi-internal routing with DI2 cables and mechanical disc brakes. Not everybody wants hydraulic brakes.
Giant Defy, ride in all weather, goes through a headset at least once a year. (Bike is kept clean too.)
Newer isn't always better
I've never changed my bearings either, but that's because I can easily service my headset by completely dismantling and cleaning the front end..........with external cabling, of course.
It sucks if you can't work on them yourself. Bikemechanic time isn't cheap..
Over the last 20 years, the only bike that needed a headset bearing replacement was a MTB. Never on a road bike. Hopefully, MTBs will never go internal.
Too bad, some MTBs already feature integrated internal routing. Even some urban commuters feature it too.
My Shimano shifters with 'wires sprouting out the sides' shift with very little finger pressure. My other bike with 105 and internal cable routing through the bars, but otherwise externally routed, takes a LOT more pressure.
There is a chance the internal routing work wasn't well done. Most of my internal routing work has smooth-operating shift lines. You could try slick-coated or Teflon-coated shift cables (not Shimano's) on your next replacement.
I can’t imagine people riding bikes with the wrong stem length/ bar width because it’s a hassle/expensive to swap. Fun will be over soon.
Manufacturers love headset routing simply because the frames are easier and cheaper to produce. Less stress points without the separate holes for cables and fewer steps and tools in the molds
Internal 💯. There is a perfect conduit to put the cables. Why attach cables to the outside of it?
I work on my own bikes and I have never worked so little and ridden so much compared to my older bikes.
Even the cables on my motorcycle aren't very difficult to deal with and some have to be un/fastened blind.
External cables for me because I don't care and it makes trips to the bike mechanic cheaper.
Internal cable routing, electric gears and disc brakes- ALL SUCK. Bought a new TCR last year with none of these- looks like that bike will be the last new TCR I will ever buy for as long as I live.
My bike is all internal. Disc brakes require no service to the pipes so pretty easy. Mine is mechanical Ultegra and I've changed both sets of cable twice and it was really simple and easy as it's all guided internally. Pop the cable in at the shifter and pops out near the rear derailleur. Headset service is possible without taking it all apart it's tricky but can be done. Changing the liners or the headset bearings would be a pig but just requires time. I would imagine it starts getting expensive if you don't do your own servicing. Thinking of going back to di2 and then it's just fit and forget.
It is a bloody nightmare to work on. I hate it. I ride in the Peak District where sleek and streamline means absolutely nothing at all.
Howeasy is it to get internally routed handlebars off and packed in a travel bag safely? if not then that seems a big restriction to me
Came here to say this too. It's definitely a con that should have been mentioned if internal routing makes traveling with your bike harder.
@@whizlerIntegrated internal routing does make packing a bike for travelling harder (or even impossible), even more so if you try to pack it in a cardboard box. For example, the Émonda (carbon) can't steer beyond 180° lock-to-lock due to the steer stop. If there's not enough slack in the shift and brake lines, it's not possible to remove the cockpit from the steerer tube.
For bikes with integrated internal routing, the most convenient option is the BikeBox Alan Triathlon Aero Easyfit, where only the wheels and pedals need to be removed. The bike is stored inside the box upside-down when you roll it around.
Like any other stem, you undo the bolts and remove the handlebars. Takes about the same time too. Or other option is a large BikeBox Alan. Which means you just need to remove wheels and possibly the rear derailleur. It's such a time saver, but it's bloody big!
@@designbyplay Not to mention, expensive, even more so for the one I mentioned and not everybody is willing to buy one. If it were me, I would, but I've never owned a bike with integrated internal routing anyway.
I think internal looks stupid because it’s poorer engineering. Form over function and to me that’s a bad look.
I own an Aethos so I'm OK with exposed brake lines but, I gotta admit I do dig them MoMo one piece handles bars. Back when I used to race Auto-cross(MX5), I would switch out the stock Mazda wheel for a MoMo, the car always felt faster with a MOMO.
In next generations they will adopt the system so it is easy to work on. They have to make changes so they can sell new bikes. One of the new changes will be to make it easy to change stuff. Canyon is doing it already with resizable bar width and stack hight without cutting steerer tube. Internal cable routing will probably be next. They have to "innovate" or we would never buy new stuff.
As long as they keep the hoses and the cables out of the headset, they can go through the frame all day.
Regular internal routing is all I ever need. I currently have two road frames with this configuration and are likely my last mass-production road frames ever.
Regarding marginal wattage gains: pro riders need them, but pro riders have pro mechanics. For most people who buy bikes with internal cabling, it's all about aesthetics. As David noted, relatively inexpensive bikes are going internal, and you simply can't argue that the marginal aerodynamic efficiency gains afforded by internal cabling make a useful difference to a person buying a $1000 bike. Furthermore, why have a nice clean headset and still have that ugly drive train just hanging out there for all to see? And only on one side, so the whole bike looks asymmetrical. Yuk! What an eyesore! Come on, bike industry. Get that fixed.
At this point if you are not rich or racing is like owning a Di2: too much hassle for something so simple yet so well executed in the past.
It’s not bad, it’s just stupidly expensive to not work 100% right
@@gersonFls7 Motorized shifting should be less expensive than cable shifting, given the bits and pieces involved. It's all markup.
Fashion
@@borisgurevich5504 Exactly. One of the first papers I wrote as a grad student in rhetoric defined fashion vs. style. One of the key points of that essay is that fashion is primarily externally driven (influenced by others), but style is internally driven (influenced by the self). I prefer riding a bike with visibly external cables doing the shifting and the braking. Based on my definitions from all those years ago, that's clearly not fashion; it is style.
@@rangersmith4652 in your original comment you said aesthetics, which could be style or fashion. I’ve clarified it. But I don’t mind fashion if it has no drawbacks. But if shifting is harder then it is ridiculous. I guess the same is true about mechanical disc brakes on road bikes
Just move to a brake by wire electro servo controlled braking system and you can get rid of all those messy hydraulics. I’m sure someone could even come up with a wireless version. Of course at that point your bike will cost as much as an F1 car but I’m sure there are people out there who can afford it. I recently had to clean and lube the headset on my old Cervelo with external routing, easy peasy. I would probably leave that same job to my mechanic on my new internally routed bike but I won’t have to worry about that for awhile.
It's great "IF" you know your measurements.
I had to replace headset bearing this past summer.
Love the look, clean and slick but more need to be done for fits. Better customisation when buying a bike to get the best fit.
External routing all the way.
Hello, i am ok we don't change headset bearings before some years of use but there's to clean and put some grease the bearings area, it is possible to do that without disconnect the brake hose? If yes, it's not so bad...
Headset repairs? That's what the LBS is for. Ive never needed it done though. I like the way it looks.
Between disc brakes internal cable routing and rim brake internal cable routing I'm all for disc brake internal routing. Being a former owner of a Canyon Speedmax with rim brake Internal routing I can say it was a nightmare. So, bring more inovation. I'm wating for the day that disc brake calipers will be fully integrated with the frame. Hopefully in the future it will be affordable.
I'm a really big fan of the new Defy separate handlebar and stem with cable routing along the handlebars and under the stem.
Moving to internal headset cable routing was a deal breaker for me. I’ve had a lot Giants and love my current Defy and was excited for the new model.
But no sale. They’ve lost the gimmick free design that made it great.
i have those going under the stem as well
Ha ha! I still ride a bike with Shimano 4500 shifters (with the cables sticking out the sides). Personally can't wait until I can update my ride to some sleek, clean, aero new deal. I feel for the mechanics (read - me) having to fiddle with them but the look is undeniably svelte and I'll take the gain of a couple of watts as a bonus. Resistance to this smacks of the resistance to disc brakes, just 'stick in the mud' nonsense. Both innovations are simply better.
I have a 1998 Specialized Allez with Ultegra and have never needed to replace the headset.
The longest external cable on my Giant Defy is 13" or 33.5 cm. Does this really mean the bike doesn't have internal routing?
If the shift and brake lines enter the frame at any point, whether it passes through the headset assembly or not, it's classified as internal routing. However, with the emergence of integrated internal routing, I now classify them.
Regular internal routing: Specialized Tarmac SL4 - SL6, first-generation Specialized Allez Sprint, Cannondale CAAD12, etc.
Integrated internal routing: Specialized Tarmac SL7, Trek Madone (fifth-generation onwards), Specialized Venge ViAS (rim brake), etc.
Last time I replaced a headset bearing: never.
loved my controltecg sirocco integrated handlebar. it's a two piece system with integrated look.
Got myself a lower end Scott Speedster Gravel at the beginning of 2022, because I wanted a full aluminium frame and fork. Came with Tiagra groupset and mechanical disc brakes. Had no issue whatsoever, even with mechanical brakes. Took it apart and put it back together multiple times, as I have always meant to experiment with it and build it up to my liking and specs while keeping the frameset only. At the moment it is running a 1x GRX with 812 RD and 11-46 cassette, with GRX 600 levers and hydraulic brakes. No issues whatsoever, shifts and breaks perfectly and has been doing so in this setup for over 1000km now. And to be quite honest, Scotts cable routing through the steerer tube and then under the stem is not bad at all.
Pretty soon it will go to 11-51 in the back, with the same RD, and I expect it to work flawlessly in that configuration too. Personally, I would always go with internal routing due to the clean looks, even if it requires more work while servicing or replacing parts. I just can´t stand the sight of exposed cables and hoses. And the naked shift cables are by far the worst. My girlfriend has a Norco Search that runs the shift cable naked down the downtube to the chainstay, and the thing just makes my stomach roll whenever I look at it, on an otherwise very good looking bike.
do not fall into the trap of poeple saying internal routing is difficult to service. If you really understand what to do, servicing the headset, adjust gearing cables or bleeding the brake fluid would not take more 20 mins, super easy.
6:55 Seriously? I have only one (road) bike and disassembled the front fork just once - a year ago (after like 12 years of use). Just to deep-clean the caliper brakes and grease the head tube bearings. Didn't replaced them. What for? If the bike is well handled and maintained (clean), there's no way to kill them. Is it? Front wheel hub will die way sooner than the head tube.
That's only if it stays that way, but you can't assume all riders to be disciplined on bike care and maintenance. Almost all riders I know never rinse their bikes post-ride, even for a little bit. There will always be a handful of lazy ones out there with the damage coming back to bite them in the future.
I hate it
External all the way.
10:10 - Which version? Every Aethos I've ever seen has internal cables on the left hand side
His choice of words are poor (as with almost everybody I've ever come across, if not everybody), he meant to say bikes without integrated routing (shift and brake lines route through the headset).
This is what I now classify as regular internal routing. Shift and brake lines still route internally, but not through the headset assembly.
@dave how is thr caad12 project coming
The maintenance and replacement issues you said don't seem big deal is because bikes you ride were designed to only be used a few years. People who worry about this, are people who want to ride their bike for 15-30 years. But obviously these modern $10,000 bikes are really made to encourage morons to upgrade every 2-3 years.
The Cervelo Soloist has the best compromise
Any integrated internal routing-configured bike with a two-piece cockpit that features no internal routing inside the stem is the best possible choice.
Specialized Tarmac SL7
Specialized Venge (third-generation)
Trek Émonda (carbon)
And more
Me personally I prefer external routing.
I got myself mt200 and replace the brakeset of the bike with just hex keys.
I have had to regrease my headset bearings since the grease turns into liquid and leaks. However it gets up to 110F+ in the summer of my garage, and this is with unsealed headsets. I will always prefer external routing since I like mechanical shifting. I am not winning races, so more aero drag is fine.
I replace my headset bearings about once per year, but it's my main bike. People with more than one can expect much longer life.
Me encantan los cables de mi specialized aethos axs. Menos peso, más fiabilidad
But having the cables hidden or not, aerodynamically the difference would be too small to measure.
So when is the Lux Trail video dropping.
Couple of weeks hopefully
Do you think they will update the Lux World cup frame to this new frame on the trail.
Internal is the way, much neater and good for bikepacking bags.
I do the maintenance on my bike... and internal cables are a paaaaaaiiiin. External may not look great, but it's way easier on my maintenance routine `:P
I Love it on my Mtb and on my Gravel bike.
Love the look, hate the install. I'll just wait for wireless braking.
It will never happen, no industry ever successfully managed to implement such a safety feature without redundancy, to something giving no human feedback and with such high risk if failure happens..look how motorbikes work, a much more mature and regulationrun industry, and they don't have wireless breaking systems.
Just ordered the new Giant Propel with mechanical 105, to replace my 7 y.o. TCR Advanced also with 105. I hope the shift feel will be okay on the new one, and I hope in 2-3 years I will be able to upgrade to electronic shifting I hope it will last for that time. As for maintenance and replacing headset bearings ... I have never changed them on my TCR in 7 years and after over 20000km. On my gravel bike however ... after 2 years I had to take it apart. so it depends on the conditions you ride I guess.
Interesting, I thought the new Propel frameset was electronic only.