Temporary Hit Points in D&D 5e | Nerd Immersion
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
- Depending on the class/race you play in D&D 5e, you may never utilize temporary HP or it might come up all the time. I've had a few scenarios lately where it has come up multiple times so I wanted to refamiliarize myself with the rules. I figured if I needed a refresher, everyone else might as well. How often do you use temporary hit points in your 5e games?
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I just built a Celestial Warlock who gives temporary hit points on a short rest for an upcoming Halloween One Shot. I get 14 and the rest of the party gets 9. Not bad.
Timely Topic Ted!
Sharing this vid with my players. Maybe they'll believe me when i say they dont stack
That's terrible man. This in in the Basic Rules, which are free. You might just have munchkins on your hands.
Yeah, temporary hit points should reduce the save DC for concentration spell. It just makes sense if it's protecting you from you damage.
But it didn't because THP isn't magical even if it came from a magical source or not. THP represent your character being more resistant than it should. He is still affected by the damage he receive.
Like I said in other comments, see THP as a coffe or an energy drink that your character took.
@@Nyarlathoteps1 And the DC calculation is based on damage you took. If you are more resistant to the damage then then you are more resistant to the damage.
Reducing the damage and then still basing the DC on the damage you would have taken if you weren't resistant is stupid. It's like hitting something resistant to fire damage with a fire spell, but then requiring them to make a Concentration check based on the damage you rolled and not the reduced amount they took.
@@SapphWolf I didn't mean the resistance mechanics that half damages. I mean resistant as a global word to describe that you character could took more damage before it get down.
Concentration DC is base on how you character is distract. If you are immune to fire and took no damage from a fire attack, it's normal you didn't get distract. But if you increase your max HP, get THP or heal your HP, it's normal you still get disctract by the damage.
If you have 2 wizards that get hit by 30 damages. The first one has 35 HP and the second one has 25 HP + 10 THP. Both get impacted the same way, so their concentration DC is the same. If a third wizards get affected by the same attack but have an Arcane Ward with 10HP, the 3rd wizard will get hit by 20 damages because the Wards decrease the damages the wizards take.
In short, THP =/= Arcane Ward
Not really, if you think of it as just buffering your HP. You're still taking the full damage, but the buffer just makes it less likely to kill you
@@Nyarlathoteps1 I realize you weren't specifically talking about having a resistance to a type of damage, but it was useful to illustrate my point.
You have two wizards. One is a human and one is a tiefling. They are both concentrating on a spell when they get hit with a fire ball. The tiefling took 20 damage and reduced it to 10 thanks to his resistance. The human also took 20 damage, but had 10 temporary hit points thus also reducing the damage to 10. In both cases the characters took 10 damage, but the human rolls his save DC as if he took 20 damage because his damage reduction came from temporary hit points. This makes no sense. Damage reductuon is damage reduction.
The concept of Hit Points often means that a character with say 50 HP that gets hit and takes 5 damage, they really didn't take any physical damage. They just lost the potential to survive combat they have from their experience and 50 HP. But that 5 damage does represent physical contact. It gets weird if you think about it too hard. Yes, I knew the rules as I mainly DM.
Except damage does not indicate physical contact. The hit indicates physical contact.
@@maxx8362 Hit could represent physical contact, but misses could too. What OP want to explain is that when your attack hit and deal damages, their isn't always blood, wound and limb chop. During fight getting attack and hit by a sword didn't necessary mean that the blade eat your flesh. It could be a swing that you barely parry that exaust you and fear you. It could be a hit on your full plate that vibrate into your spine. Or it could be a deadly swing that spread your guts on your feets. But at the end, all those "hit" (successfull attack roll) decrease your chances to survive but they didn't all injure you physicaly.
and the spell called CURE WOUNDS just restores your potential to survive combat, ey?
@@Hero-yu4om You cannot describe a spell by it's name... Do you really think Meteor Swarm is really Meteor hitting from space...
There are the writen rules we talk about:
- "Hit points represent a combination of physical and
mental durability, the will to live, and luck." (PHB p.196)
- "Dungeon Masters describe hit point loss in different ways.
When your current hit point total is half or more of your hit point maximum , you typically show no signs of injury. When you drop below half your hit point maximum , you show signs of wear, such as cuts and bruises. An attack that reduces you to 0 hit points strikes you directly, leaving a bleeding injury or other trauma, or it simply knocks you unconscious." (PHB p.197)
Thank goodness that Sage Advice isn't Published Rules or Errata.
WoTC has a long tradition of Sage Advice / FAQs that directly contradict RAW in ways that distort - and sometimes break - the game.
I didn’t know about them going away at Long Rest. That needs reminding.
I like the idea of these short looks into rules. ESPECIALLY rule correction and reprints; I use the books I have and don’t know if corrections on D&D Beyond
We just had this exact debate after a session this past Friday. It lasted until well into Sunday evening when we all decided as DMs we can rule however we want.
For me it is simple. The 2nd sentence in the description of temporary HP on page 198 of the PHB states "they are a buffer against damage, a pool of hit points that protect you from injury" I believe damage and injury are synonymous.
I believe there are two conflicting issues here. Taking damage while concentrating and taking damage while at 0HP. From what Jeremy Crawford and the Sage Advice Compendium is saying, I am not sure they can have it both ways.
"If you take any damage while you have 0 hit points, you suffer a death saving throw failure. If the damage is from a critical hit, you suffer two failures instead."
Under the temp hp description it goes on to say "If you have 0 hit points, receiving temporary hit points doesn’t restore you to consciousness or stabilize you. They can still absorb damage directed at you while you’re in that state."
So, in the at 0HP scenario they do act as a buffer.
Now the concentrating on a spell verbiage is as follows:
"Whenever you take damage while you are concentrating on a spell, you must make a Constitution saving throw to maintain your concentration. The DC equals 10 or half the damage you take, whichever number is higher."
The Sage Advice and Crawford will say damage is damage so temp HP does not matter when calculating CON save DC.
How are the temporary HP a buffer in one sense (while at 0HP) and not for the other? Per Crawford and some of the other comments left here damage=damage no matter what. That is clearly not RAW as evident above in the description or 0HP scenario.
At my table we use buffer, which is RAW. So if you have 50hp and 10 temps, you take 28 points of damage, your CON save to keep concentration is still 10.
I thought them going away on a long rest was obvious and I never assumed it was anything else. Simply because temporary hit points are usually a mental or luck effect, or is a spell effect and has a built in duration. So it would make sense that completing a test would return you to "normal".
As far as the concentration I'm okay with the reasoning that concentration checks are not made against "Health Lost" but rather "Damage Taken" on the grounds that concentration checks are your ability to focus against distraction.
Unlike the damage reduction of an arcane ward or something like stone's endurance, if you had 10 temporary hit points and got hit for 9 points you'd still be taking the hit rather than blocking or weakening it. Temporary hit points don't create a magic shield to stop the attack after all.
It's the same reason a storm or falling can also require a concentration check.
I agree, everything else I can think of in the game resets or refreshes on a long rest. (Unless it has a specified duration, like 8 hrs for some spells) I don’t see why temp hp would be any different.
And I also agree on the point that temp hp aren’t stopping you from taking damage. The difference to me is that something like Arcane Ward has its own hp and your temp hp belongs to you. I think of Arcane Ward as an invisible barrier like some sort of force field, while temp hp is a boosting of your own physical state.
I don’t think the description of temp hp as a buffer against taking damage is the best analogy.
As a DM, I always think about Temporary HP as a secondary HP pool that can only be fill with specific interact. I think that's why they said it's not Hit Points so you cannot interact with it as you could for HP.
That THP pool represent your player feeling way better than normal (in a situation when you have full HP + THP). The real life exemple I use to explain it, is Caffein or energy drink. When you drink them, you get a "boost" if you are tire or not (In DnD it means full HP or not). Pretty much all THP fit with this idea that you can expend your limit but they aren't "shield".
Even Armor of Agathys can be explain that way if you see the spell this way: Agathys give you some energies that manifest itself as spectral frost all arround you and your gear. When his energies is depleted, his frosty manifestation vanish. (Yeah, I know spells in 5e are badly explain Lore wise)
The Concentration DC makes sense depending on what you think triggers the saving throw.
If you think it's injury and pain what makes you roll Concentration, and the buffer blocks that, then it makes sense that temporary hit points protect you from it.
If the temporary HP still lets you feel the pain of the attack (because they're intrinsic to your body or something, as opposed to an Arcane Ward where something else takes the damage), then it makes sense that the temporary hit points don't prevent that.
If you think it's the power behind the attack, then getting whacked by 30 is getting whacked by 30 even if you have a fake meat shield. (but for some reason Immunity and Resistance still work) just like having 30 real Hit Points or having 60 Hit Points don't mean that the attack is less effective - but then again the definition of HP and the reality of healing/taking damage don't quite match up.
Another alternative is that it's a balancing issue and not a realism issue.
What intrigues me if how to rule on enemy attacks, such as a vampires bite, which can "lower your Max HP equal to the amount of necrotic damage taken" when you have temp hp. Would that mean that if you had 10 max HP and 10 temp and received a bite dealing 12 necrotic damage, do you die?
I rule, no but I've seen otherwise...
The first time I saw your (new?) intro transition I thought it was an editing mistake. It's such a small thing to notice but I think I like it. It's an "ok the intro is over the video starts" but there's no 20 second band playing with graphics and stuff, it just flows into the video. Nice.
Worth noting that the "Aid" spell does not count as temp hp!
why is that?
@@Jay-id4rn Because Aid increase HP Maximum and heal HP by 5.
Exemple:
You have 25/28 HP + 5 THP
You get affected by Aid spell
Your now have 30/33 HP + 5 THP
Ditto for the HP from heroes feast!
Temp HP is such a great mechanic, honestly. Something to stack on top of your normal health but with a built in mechanic to assure it's limited. Elegant design.
Makes me think of the Protection domain cleric its potential for being a proactive rather than a reactive healer. My group at the time modified its Channel DIvinity so it would work sorta like armor of agathys. Pairs supper well with a low AC, damage resilient barbarian.
The concentration rule is probably just to buff Abjuration Wizard, I would rule otherwise
Imagine being a level 10 warlock and you have Tomb of Levistus invocation, you have 100 temporary hit points for almost 1 round.
When you take damage you make a concentration check which you might fail, wasting one of your 2 spell slots
Yeah it doesn't make any sense to make the player roll concentration if enemies attack jut the ice around them...
But on the other hand, what about temp HP from Inspiring Leader?
I think the problem here is more about the rulling of Tomb of Levistus than the temporary hit points or concentration rules.
In my book, Tomb of Levistus should have his own HP like Arcane Ward (abjuration wizard ability).
The way I see temporary HP, it's a magical effect that gives you a mini buffer of defense. Like a magical force field wrapping around you. If your temp HP runs out and you eat leftover damage, I say make the concentration check because it went through your force field and you actually took damage. But subtract the amount of damage absorbed by the force field for the purpose of knowing what your DC is for the concentration check.
Except that Inspiring Leader exists. I don't think listening to a speech is creating a force field around people.
@@Hilianus or the cook tool's special use from xanathar's, even if the food is that good, you aren't going to receive a magic field.
THP isn't magical even if it came from a magical source or not. THP represent your character being more resistant than it should. He is still affected by the damage he receive.
What you describe is a magical ability like Arcane Ward and it's well describe that Ward have there HP pools, just like someone who take damages for you. So it's normal you aren't affected by the damages.
Btw Ward could be remove by Anti-Magic Field, Dispel Magic or any removing magic effect but THP cannot (except if it came from spells that remove the THP when dispel).
if taking damage to your temporary hit points didn't count as taking damage, then that would mean that every single effect that triggers on "take damage" or "deal damage" wouldn't apply to that attack, which would be stupid
Just threw together an abjuration wizard as an NPC in my game, and I would have not considered the Arcane Ward a separate pool of hit points with regards to concentration, so that's very useful to know! Thanks!
Temporary Hotpoints soften the blow you get. Your body still takes it. So of an Oger throws you around or big spell hits you they don't help you stay focused. They help you get less hurt, but you (mentally) concentrating against the thing that hit you still happens, because in mz head you make the check against the distraction of the hit not the actual damage. That is why everything below 20 damage is a dc 10, because even a light stab can pull you out of concentration
OH! I have that exact same D20 lamp! My D&D group gifted it to me for my birthday.
I agree with your viewpoint..Temporary HP should absorb damage and lower the DC for concentration. I think it depends on how you view temporary HP. I view them as a shield like entity that protects you, as such, only HP that reach you should affect concentration. I guess WoTC view them as simply boosted HP...almost like you have leveled up, and thus, the concentration DC is purely based on the damage inflicted? Like I stated, I agree with your position because temporary HP are defined as HP that protect you from injury. Why is WoTC now using damage that doesn't actually injury you as the basis for a concentration DC?
Is the temp HP you get from Inspiring Leader an "entity that protects you"?
@@Hilianus I do not use feats, but if the words the "leader" chooses have magical components to them.. than "yes"? I realize my explanation is not perfect, but neither is the Inspirational leader feat giving temporary HP either. You could argue, the inspirational leader feat works by pushing people beyond their normal limits, but then how are they not damaged...or the feat helps them deflect blows to do less damage then prior to a Leader's words? Maybe I played too many RPG Video Games with magical shields?
I was aware of the long rest limitation - the devs don't want to allow characters to keep any buff or benefit that continues after they refresh their spell slots and expendable abilities with a long rest unless the rules specifically and directly say so. (I run an armorer artificer. Temp hit points are a key feature of the subclass, it's come up.) 5e is careful to avoid any circumstance like the 3.x "goodberry" abuse, where the PCs can cast a spell that lasted for days/level a dozen or more times while travelling to the encounter site, leaving them with literal bags of goodberries* once the fighting starts. Temporary hp from yesterday's spell would potentially allow careful casters to have the use of a bonus spell slot, and so are forbidden.
*Traditionally, leftover goodberries are fantastic in pie. Waste not, want not.
Good info, thanks for spreading it! I wasn’t aware of the Arcane Ward ability (I have yet to play a Wizard), I should look into that
Just as a heads up, only abjuration wizards get that ability, as that is the school that focuses on wards and protections.
Thanks
Im new to D&D So this help a lot
I look at it from the prospect of Inspiring leader feat. It's something that bolsters your existing pool that is a part of you. I think Armor of Agyths should be more like the ward where it's a separate thing with an HP pool that depletes before you start taking damage.
Spells in 5e didn't explain lore wise how they work and I hate it because they can be interpret a tons of different way.
I always see the spell "Armor of Agathys" as an entity that give you a bit of his power to protect you. But their isn't a physical or magical Armor that protect you. It's just the energy granted by an entity that increase your survivability and get you all frosty. This entity can be Agathys but I personnaly like as a Warlock to took something closer to my background.
And you've also missed a "fun" interaction with lifedrain. Stuff that has the "succeed on a X save or have max HP reduced by the damage taken." If you use the same ruling as for the concentration - this means that, for example - if you are at 21|21 hp and have 10 temporary HP, when you are hit with 20 damage lifedrain attack - you essentially take 30 damage if you fail that save. At least RAW.
Can you point those RAW you are refering to. Because base on that, it mean that when Aid spell end you "take" 5 damages. When full HP and something decrease your Constitution it mean you take damages. It would even mean that when your temporary hit point get remove you took damage.
I have always understand it as when your max HP get change and your current HP is higher than your max HP. Your current HP cannot be higher than your max HP, so those HP just get remove without being "damage" even if it's part of an attack.
@@Nyarlathoteps1 I'm telling that taking 20 damage in this case has same effect (in terms of HP loss ofc) as taking 30 damage from non-lifedrain attack. Also, this brings up the idea that HP loss and damage taken might not be the same thing. Which is interesting in it's own way.
@@Nyarlathoteps1 What they meant was that "Life drain" attacks that reduce your maximum HP by the amount dealt effectively ignore Temp HP while expending them because you end up taking the same amount of real HP reduction as you would have anyway.
I think you are just thrown off because he used the word "damage" instead of the more technically correct phrase "maximum HP reduction" to describe the fact that he started the combat turn with 50 HP and ended it with 20 HP - calling that 30 damage, while technically he only took 20 damage then had his maximum HP lowered. In an RP sense I don't know that the character would care about that distinction as both leave them the same distance from death.
The Heroism spell says it adds spellcaster modifier as temp HP "at the start of each turn". Which would seem to imply that they grow if unused. It should have been worded more like "these temp HP are replenished if lost at the start of your turn while the duration is in effect."
I side with you. Most sources of Temp HP are in the realm of shields. Like the new Armorer sub of Artificer. The guardian mode of the armor gives Art lvl in Tmp HP as a bonus action. To me, the armor is projecting a field that absorbs damage. This should not be seen as damage to you. Therefore not part of the DC for con.
The whole reason for the con check is because the pain of getting hit messes with your concentration. If half the damage is not even "hitting" you, then it should not be considered.
This is a bad decision among many.
Currently playing a glamour bard with inspiring leadership feat. It's a better healer than healing spells personally in my opinion. Also my next char is a dark gnome abjure warlock using armor of agathys I'm conjunction with abjurer shield which makes it even better (especially if you can get warding bond cast on you. I wish concentration wasnt affected until after temp hitpoints were lost.
Spore druid also wants to keep their shape change THP to stay in the form. One more strike against the subclass.
I would ask why temporary hit points don't stack, but I am sure people will point out how it would be broken or something.
There are certain abilities that can generate them pretty consistently over time, so you could build up a big backlog. That being said, them going away on a long rest makes it not as bad
Well, when is said in this way, i understood that with temporary hp you dont "feel" the full damage, but you understand the magnetude of the attack your oponent made against you, and THAT is the "distraction" factor [therefore, this is what you have to go against with your concentration.]
... aaaand you receive some damage just for shiggles.
An argument I've had more than once is whether Wild Shape and similar transformation effects give you temporary hit points or a second pool of regular hit points, as well as a similar disagreement over Abjuring Ward (Abj. Wizard feature). It's frustrating to explain that just because hit points are temporary does not mean they're Temporary Hit Points.
One area where this came up a lot was explaining to my dm that casting False Life does not reduce a Wild Shaped druid to single digit hit points.
Seems like a complete contradiction to me
Knew these and all the rules. I stand by the actual rules with Temp HP, since Temp HP to me is just literally that, a temporary buffer. If you get cut by a knife while still having temporary HP remaining, you still have a scratch physically on your body that is bleeding, it just didn't touch your real health pool. So concentration not reduced in DC if having Temp HP beforehand.
While Arcane Ward as you read and found confusing, Arcane Ward is a physical bubble out there of protection. Temp HP has no physical indicator out there. So using the knife example again, you slash at an Abjuration Wizard who has their Arcane Ward out and about, the attacker will feel the resistance of the ward. And if the ward was not shattered from taking too much damage, there would be no bleeding cuts or physical signs of injury as there would be if a character had Temp HP. So no actual damage taken and thus no need for concentration or a reduced DC if the ward breaks.
I know we run Heroism spell incorrectly, but we have house ruled it with Heroism that the temporary hit points are all from one source; so we allow it to stack up. Allows the spell to scale into the medium tiers and higher tiers when players upcast it with multiple targets.
It also allows my players to setup, be patient, gain a larger buffer before they go into combat.
And it makes the Concentration check that much more punishing to fail.
We love it, we have a blast, I know it isnt the way it is meant to be run, but that is how we have handled Heroism for over 300 hours of game play :)
I rule for my games that Temporary Hitpoints given in small doses on a trigger by the same effect can stack - just Temp HP from different sources cant stack. This has always felt just fine.
Temporary Hit Points are a game mechanic. A wizard's "Ward" is an exception to the mechanic, which is why it is detailed in the spell description.
Temp HP simply reduces the amount of "real" HP you would lose. It has no other effect (such as affecting Concentration saves, etc). And it does not, ever, stack. LOL
Very simple.
If temporary hit points don't actually prevent you from taking damage (i.e. the thing that triggers concentration saves), then why would I ever take want temporary hit points when I could use the exact same resources to give my character actual hit points (e.g. using a 1st-level slot to cast false life instead of cure wounds)? It seems like this ruling renders temporary hit points pointless outside of having riders like Armor of Agathys does.
The actual wording of the example for temporary hit points even disagrees with this ruling. "For example, if you have 5 temporary hit points and take 7 damage, you lose the temporary hit points and then take 2 damage." It doesn't say, "(...) and then your hit points decreases by 2" or "(...) and then you lose 2 hit points." No, it says, "(...) and then take 2 damage." Therefore, the actual damage you take equals what remains after the temporary hit points are used.
Temporary hit points is a mess of a rule.
@Nerd Immersion: Quick DnD 5e question I'm trying to figure out. So for Armor of Agathys it's my understanding (correct me if I'm wrong) it's temporary HP and enemies take the damage of the Armor's HP. My question is if you cast it (like at 2nd level so 10 HP) and the enemies take multiple attacks and they are say 2 damage for one hit, 7 for the second, and 5 for the third would it be 10 AoA damage for each hit or only a MAX of 10 AoA damage? Really confused on the spell description wording.
Scholars and Astrologians (and I guess a few other jobs) in FFXIV can give "Temporary Hit points" with their healing spells. It might be better to call Temporary Hit Points Barrier Points. I think of it like the Galvanized effect from a FFXIV Scholar's Adloqium spell or a Nocturnal Sect Astrologian's Augmented Benefict. It's a barrier that stands atop your HP.
I don't understand what people don't get by temp HP not being actual HP. Why would temp HP reduce the damage you're taking? If you get hit for 30, even if you have 10 temp HP [that's why it's called temp HP and not damage reduction buffer (yes, I know that's how the rule is written but bare with me)], you're still taking 30 points of damage, even if your true HP is only going down by 20. Therefore, the DC for Concentration is 15 or half the full amount of damage you're taking. I honestly never found it to be very confusing lol
I've been aware of this ruling for a little bit, but in my own home game a still play them as if they are a buffer. Unless they decide to actually re write the temporary hit points section of the phb to remove the statement saying "Temporary hit points aren't actual hit points; they are a buffer against damage, a pool of hit points that protect you from injury," or explain how this buffer differs from an arcane ward buffer, I simply disagree with their ruling and play it the way that makes sense in my game.
My current campaign has a Hexblade who casts Agathys and a Bard who uses Mantle of Inspiration, and Heroism. So our group and DM are very up to date on THP. We also have a rules lawyer who reminds us that THP are gone when we sleep. But here is a question that has caused problems at our table. Armor of Agathys cast at 3rd lvl gives 15 thp to caster granting the buff of doing damage to melee attackers only. If my THP gets zapped by a spell its gone no damage to attacker. If I don't get attacked what happens to my THP after the hour as the spell expires? Do I keep the THP or does it also expire.
Too bad they don't stack because if we decided to burn few spell slots 3 people in my party would gain 20 temp HP at level 5 from aid.
Yea when I think about it stacking temp hit points would be OP
I think the Concentration rule makes sense. Temporary HP, to me, is like a magical, skin-level field or other vitality boost, whereas a Ward is it's own seperate force field. And to me, when you're forced to make a concentration check, it's because of the magnitude of an attack that is causing you to lose focus. Since THP is not seperate entity, it might lower the damage you take, but your body is still taking the full blunt trauma or impact of an explosion, as opposed to a magical barrier taking some of the impact away before the rest get to you.
I’ve been in several games where the paladin takes Inspiring Leader, so every short rest refreshes the group’s temporary hit points. As such, I’m familiar enough with the rules. As for Constitution saves to concentrate, perhaps it’s like stubbing your toe a bit. It hurts, you notice it, it’s distracting, but you aren’t permanently wounded from it. Still, it can be a shock to the system temporarily.
I knew about the long rest part, but not about the concentration. I really think that considering the warning it should not count against you for concentration. They're like a buffer shield. Sure, you're taking damage, but it's damage that's not really a part of you. It's no different than if someone casts shield on themselves. It's not their +5 AC, but they still get it and it protects them from damage.
Arcane ward isn't temp hp which why it doesn't trigger a con save. It's also been ruled the ward doesn't benefit from resistances or immunity or absorption. Temp hp should be thought as a secondary hp pool reserve than a shield against dmg. The reason I say this is because of how certain undead can reduce your hp pool and how that interacts with temp hp. If your hp gets reduced your actually max hp gets reduced while the temp hp soaks the dmg from the attack. So if you had 10 temp and took the 5 necrotic dmg and hp reduction you would go to 5 temp and your actually hp would also be reduced by 5 meaning if you had max hp and temp you basically took double dmg. It's a real bogus interaction but that's how it goes. However the if you had the arcane ward in the same scenario you wouldn't take any hp reduction.
I imagine temp HP like a boost in your character's energy. Like taking a pre-workout drink before going to the gym, basically. Your character has more stamina to keep going, but taking hits will still hurt (i.e. break concentration).
So, in my extremely limited experience (only been running for a year only been playing for 7 so that part isn't to limited I guess) I've always assumed that the concentration save DC was the damage dealt not the damage you took. It wasn't until I realized that for example you're a tiefling and get hit with 20 points fire, then you only take 10 points damage due to resistance, but the DC in that case would still be half 20 so 10... but then I played a tiefling and realized that. As far as arcane ward vs temp hp is concerned I believe it has to do with the fact that the arcane ward is a separate entity from your character whereas the temp hp is like an adrenaline rush since hp is a measure of your will to continue and adrenaline pushes you to continue and not notice damage your taking
Temp HP are not a shield, they are buffing your HP temporarily, but they are still HP, you should make concentration checks as normal.
I thought that the Temporary Hit Points should work that way, but was always ruled that it didn't. Now while it works that way for taking damage and concentration checks. But what would you say for an arrow shot at you. You have 10 Temp HP and get hit with an arrow for 7, is there any way that the arrow is now embedded in your shoulder that a Healer would have to pull out???
To me the difference between temp hit points and Arcane Ward is that when you gain temp hp YOU have the temp hp, but with Arcane Ward it has its own hp. So in the case of Arcane Ward you are not taking that damage the ward is. But with temp hp since that is added on top of your natural hp, you are still taking that damage.
Also for those who don't know, Heroism gives you temp hp to the amount of the casters spell ability mod. So usually you're looking at only getting 3-4 temp hp that reapplies every turn, however this is super useful on a raging barbarian or Heavy armor master on low levels because this forces an enemy to have to do like 8-9 dmg a swing to actually hit the hp pool which if you got good monster knowledge cr 3 or higher are the only creatures that easily get in that range.
Heroism grants temp hp equal to the casters spellcasting ability modifier, no roll necessary, though if a caster with a +3 and one with a +5 both cast heroism on a character you can choose wether to keep 3 or exchange it for 5 temp hp, you might be thinking of false life which grants the caster 1d4+mod
Just checked the original player handbook, my copy I had since 2015, the long rest bit was in it for THP.
So Temp HP won't heal someone up if they are down. Does increasing max hp heal and bring them back up? Like Aid?
The shield ability is negating damage that you take while Temp HP isn't negating damage it is fortifying your ability to take damage. Mechanically you end up in the same position but the result is a difference of your character taking a smaller blow or being able to take a blow better.
I can see the logic of Arcane Ward being different, because it is described as being a separate entity from yourself - complete with its own maximum hit points and ways to heal those hit points.
So its literally a big magical shield floating around you and if something hits it then it has prevented that something from getting to and hitting you; whereas temp hit points are just like putting on some extra layers of magical armor to allow you to take some bigger hits - but important part is you are still taking the hits.
One very small but hopefully helpful piece of feedback for your viewers who are on a smart phone. It would be great if you were to zoom-in on the text you are reading from. There is always a ton of white space on screen, and the text is always too tiny to follow as a result.
You cannot name them temporary armor, which makes a little more sense, due to Armor class making it confusing.
Buffer hit points sound weird.
In my mind, Temporary Hit Points are "magical heartiness" that allows you to weather more damage, as opposed to arcane ward/etc that absorb it. Your body is still struck by the attack, so you need to make a concentration check against the impact/pain/damage you suffer.
Is the speech from Inspiring Leader feat magical in nature, then?
@@Hilianus Hm, you're right, not necessarily "magical" in this case, but it does still give a morale boost that pumps you up and allows you to weather battle better, translating to Temp HP
Aside from the concentration bit that was my understanding. I've never played a character where such concentration check came into it, seem a little nonsensical.
I think the weird interaction must have something to do with an edge case involving power word spells. By the wording, I think that power words must ignore temp hp and only take your real hit point total into account.
I don't even use TP, except for spells like AoA. Otherwise it's annoying.
so they're just yellow hearts in zelda
Taking a long rest on ddb resets temporary hit points. So people have likely been playing correctly by accident.
'Damage' is not explicitly defined in the PHB or DMG.
It may seem unnecessary, but I feel like there would have been less confusion if damage were defined as something like 'a loss of hit points' or 'a loss of hit points and/or temporary hit points'.
I guess we would have to look at how resistance works with temporary HP and the arcane ward.
If its a buffer it should act like one.
Also 5e needs more ways to gain temporary hp. As it stands its such a small aspect that I sure most people forget about it.
I've always had to make concentration checks even if I lose temporary hit points. My way of understanding it lore wise is that temporary hit points are like extra life-force: imagine getting cut and some blood spills out, but right now you are magically carrying extra blood in your body. You still were "damaged" but like an hour later you wouldn't notice. So temporary hit points are just like turning your skin into a bag of holding for extra blood.
But after you read the player's handbook, I feel like the way you were doing it makes more sense according to the RAW.
A bit of a morbid example, but a fun one.
A druid in Wild Shape still makes concentration checks based off the damage taken in their beast form. This is essentially a pool of temporary hit points, separate from the druid's own actual hitpoints. So if the logic is "they're not my character's actual hit points, so I shouldn't have to make concentration checks for the damage they take" then a Wild Shaped druid would never have to make a concentration check.
The beast's HP are real HP though, not temporary hit points. They can be healed, reduced, increased, etc by any effect that affects hitpoints. His logic was that that because temporary hit points are specifically pointed out as not being "real" hit points then the damage that they absorb isn't "real" damage to you either.
I don't agree with his logic- and posted separately why I think their ruling is consistent with the RP element of temp HP, I'm just posting here to point out that under his logic Wild shaped druids would still make concentration checks - nothing in his purposed logic would change that.
What about spells like Power Word Kill? If I had 95HP and 10 temp hit points, does it still count as "real hit points" to block the spell?
You will be dead, the spell is clear that it just check your HP. Even if you have 100 THP and a Ward with 1000 HP, only your current HP is important.
"Temporary hit points aren't actual hit points; they are a buffer against damage, a pool of hit points that protect you from injury."
"When temporary hit points absorb damage for you, you're still taking damage..."
I hate when rulings aren't consistent with each other....
How are these inconsistent? The second one implies that it wouldn't nullify damage completely, just absorb it. Which means if things trigger with the damage, they still trigger.
I just think of temp hit points as a thin aura on your skin. you may get hit with something that the aura protects but you still take the impact/recoil thus disrupting your concentration
@@sovest555 "protect from injury" and "you're still taking damage" are contradictory unless you are an olimpic level mental gymnast.
@@phelps6205 Not exactly. In this case, you are taking damage, in that the attack still connects and does impact. But, there are no physical injuries left afterwards. The language in the rules is to differentiate against immunity for the most part.
Man I'm early
nothing in 5e stacks... garbage design
Instead of calling it Temp HP they should call it Damage absorption barrier.
Ok temporary HitPoints are basically a Rush of vitality you are getting damage or exhausted from what ever source spell etc. But I think the word not real shouldn't be used... its just to make the obvious distinction that you cant heal them.
I was taught that they acted similar to wildshap rules for concentration, so nevwr really gave it a thought on the concentration DC difficulty
Honestly, Concentration is just a mess. I get why it exists, but I feel like there could be a more elegant solution.
Any suggestions?
@@EviIM0nk3y I'd recommend any one of the following (Maybe both 1 and 4).
1) Limit Concentration based buff spells to a duration of 1 minute. You can't stack that many spells before your old ones start to wear off.
2) Have a "does not stack" qualifier on certain problem spells. You can't have more than one spell with the "does not stack" qualifier on a target at once. (This is what most video games do.)
3) Have buff spells take up an attunement slot. That way, you can only have a maximum of 3 different buffs on one target at a time. (Except Artificers)
4) Enforce that Verbal spell components require you to speak in a clear voice, and thus, casting all of your buffs outside of the boss room is just going to alert the boss to your presence. (My 3.5 solution)
I'd still have Concentration for spells that you have to actively control, like Call Lightning or Flaming Sphere, but find some other solution for buff stacking.
I'm mainly concerned with concentration spells that seem to be designed for the caster to be in the thick of combat, like Barkskin and the Smite spells.
(Not a dm but if I was) because you the person did not take damage your buffer took damage then you took the remainder I would rule it DC 10 in that example not DC 15
Thank you.
Good points and interesting video
Temporary hit points are internal. They're a strengthening of the body. The body is still fully impacted, thus fill affect on concentration.
Arcane Ward is an external magical shield. It absorbs damage before it reaches the body. The amount the body is impacted is reduced so the effect on concentration is reduced.
What about their interaction with damage resistances? I read somewhere that they don't take resistance in consideration
You heard wrong. If you summon a fire elemental and give it temporary hit points, and then that elemental is attacked with Fire Damage, his temporary hit points do not decrease.
It's the Arcane Ward (Wizard ability) that didn't get affected by resistance because the Ward has is own HP pool that wasn't yours.
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Temp HP should really not be called hit points. If you think of them more as "shield points" they make more sense, but even that name is fraught with overuse. You're still taking damage for concentration checks, they're not based on half the hit points lost.
If calling them Temporary Hit Points is confusing, some people might read "Shield Points" as an AC bonus.
@@GURGLEGUY12345 yes, I admit shield points is not a good term because if it's other uses, but it is more accurately descriptive of the mechanics than temp HP.
First?
I homebrew in my game, that you can have 2 sources of temp hp, but it can’t come from the same source
Temporary Hit Points could be fixed by calling them what they are: A temporary damage shield. Saying you have a temp damage shield of 5 and 12 hit points will never confuse the two.
The over use of "hit points" and "level" is a problem.
No sound? op never-mind my computer trying to play sound from my controller.
I would think of temp hp in this way, it's like the padded protection you wear in some sports. When you take a hit while wearing the padding, while it will reduce the damage taken, maybe even prevent damage entirely, you still feel the impact, get knocked about and maybe have the wind knocked out of you a bit.
What you discribe represent more the Resistance or damage decrease ability (like Heavy Armor Master that reduced non-magical damage by 3). With or without THP you still get affected the same way by damages.