Music and Philosophy with Nikos Xanthoulis | Ancient Greece Revisited
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- Опубликовано: 31 июл 2024
- Plato wrote how the education of the soul is based on two things: logos and music. Exactly what this meant is still debated, and music was thought by many translators to have meant "general education." But what if Plato meant exactly what he said? Who better to ask than a musician of the Ancient Greek Lyre, Dr. Nikos Xanthoulis.
#ancientgreecerevisited #agr #lyre #ancientmusic #nikosxanthoulis
00:00 Opening
00:40 Introduction
12:08 Sonnet for Lyre #2
32:35 Sonnet for Lyre #1
38:49 Katolophyromai (Song from Euripides)
1:00:19 Sonnet for Lyre #4
1:08:19 Seikilos' Epitaph
1:19:30 Finale
1:25:15 Sonnet for Lyre #3
Interviewer: Michael Michailidis
Cinematographer: Konstantinos Kritikos, Adam Petritsis
Edited by Adam Petritsis
THANK YOU NOTES
George Velentzas
Congratulations once again! The importance of what you guys are doing cannot be described in a few words really. I just feel the need to express my gratitude and to wish you the best of luck for what is coming next.
P.S. Trying to find this video, I typed in the RUclips search box the words ''Ancient Greece''. The video came up fourth in the results! This says something about where you guys are heading towards. Well done!
Thank you so much! We are really trying to get the word out and any help is more than welcome!
I started now with 57. Nikos is a great professional musicist. I bought a lyre and the book from Luthirios. I love to play the lyre. It is the instrument of my soul. I live in South Italy - Salento, where Arestoxenus and Pythagoras lived. I feel also that a lot of our Folkmusic has ancient roots. Some are really easy to play on the lyre. As if they wete composed for that instrument. Nikos book is really only for professional musicians. But do not be afraid. Everybody can start to play the lyre. When I play here in the countryside the birds come and si g with me.
That's amazing. Where did you buy the lyra and how is it's quality? I was considering the same. Is the book of Luthirios good for beginners?
It feels beautiful to know that the ancient instrument lyra is alive again in the capable hands of a professional musician and academic like Dr Nikos Xanthoulis. Lyra may contribute to the efforts of the good modern musicians to heal the today' s music. A healing that is so desperately needed.
Many thanks to the Ancient Greece Revisited for this wonderful video.
Thank you as well!
We are so far removed from this astonishing information and education in our Greek schools it is heartbreaking as well as infuriating. This man and his art makes our ancient culture universal…
This conversation is so elevated that any casual listener could understand it and feel enthralled by the topic without necessarily being a musician or a philosopher. Thank you for creating and sharing such a valuable masterclass.
Thank you very very much for this comment!
Αληθινός δάσκαλος Κύριε Ξανθούλη!
Ψήλωσα τρεις πόντους από αυτά που μου μάθατε!
Σας ευχαριστώ από καρδιάς!
I am completely amazed at the philosophy and understanding of sound the man has. Logos and Musica make complete sense. Brilliant work!
Yes, Xanthoulis is perhaps the best there is, at least in Greece. We are glad you enjoyed it so much!
Fascinating discussion! Very interesting,documented information! Thank you!
Wow, I’ve been chastising myself for only enjoying music like I did as a younger man by playing rather than listening. I still listen of course but the shivers don’t happen unless I actually play an instrument. It’s very liberating to hear that another person experiences this.
This is one of the most underrated channels on RUclips. The quality of production and (more importantly) the content is fantastic.
Thank you!
I naively had thought the Lyra was played like a harp, just open strings! I cannot believe how incredible it sounds, and how complex it is.
I cannot describe how enchanted, enthralled and enlightened I am from finishing this hour and a half conversation over many days, watching it as the last thing before going to sleep. You both took us on a journey, much like a lost Greek tragedy. Nikos is right, we must make new stories, and appreciate the old, but strive for the new. Thank you for your amazing work Ancient Greece Revisited, you are my favorite art to watch before deep sleep. May we all have more conversations like this, it is needed for this generation which I am a part of. To the stars!
Thank you for much for this brilliant comment. It's thanks to people like you that we keep on going!
@@AncientGreeceRevisited Of course! I love this channel, you are an amazing host! I always look forward to a new video that connects me to my ancient culture. Thank you!
I play the romanian NAI(panflute),a local version of the Syrinx,which is documented by Ovid,amongst others. I think ancient instruments deserve to be studied and revived!
What a wonderful interview!!! What a wonderful interviewer!!!! Thanks!!!
This is what gives me hope for humanity. An education for soul growth.
This is really heartwarming, thank you for sharing this and making it available. I know i will come back to this many times, i am lucky to have this kind of wonderful conversation and music in my life. It's brightened my evening to stumble across this. Thanks again ♡
Thank you so much for sharing this gem! This instrument is truly fascinating! Congratulations
You are the artist Nikos referred to right? Would be nice to also hear you play on the lyre in the future!
@@AncientGreeceRevisited yes, I'm the artist Nikos referred to (and that was a great honor for me). It would be great to meeting you in person and play the lyre. Greetings from Thessaloniki.
I am completely mesmerized!
These two are the best on this topic that you can find. This goes to the core of music.
One of the best videos I’ve seen on this topic. I wish I could learn how to play the lyre from this master. Would love to purchase his books.
Yes, you have all his details on the video details below. Thank you for your comment.
Thank you for this indepth and profound discussion, especially for making it accessible for us in english.
It was surprising and funny to hear about the trip to Finland and about finnish music. I'd argue however, that music with mystical and resonating spirit can be found here, but mainly in contemporary folk music, atleast in my experience. I'd recommend listening to kantele player Arja Kastinen's work and Loituma's "Kun mun kultani tulisi". Both examples bear echoes of ancient times with Loituma's song continuing the oral tradition of runo-singing and Mrs. Kastinen reflecting the karelian tradition of playing improvisational music on kantele solely.
Luv this
Amazing stuff, thanks guys! Melody for the soul...
Thank you Dean! Keep up the good work as well...
Μπράβο εξαιρετική παρουσίαση και από τους δυο σας.
A big thanks to all the contributors. This is really great! It blew my mind. Dr. Xanthoulis' research is fascinating! And the sound of the lyre!! I have no words. Except perhaps for one: methexis!
We agree! Wonderful sounds and wonderful Xanthoulis!
Amazing!
What a fascinating presentation on the intertwined relationship between ancient Greek music and philosophy. Nikos Xanthoulis provided insightful historical context and examples to illustrate how deeply integrated music was in intellectual pursuits in classical Greece. It's amazing how scholars like Pythagoras deduced mathematical principles of harmony from musical experimentation. This video served as a great reminder of how the arts can inspire discovery and further our understanding of wisdom across disciplines. Thanks for sharing this illuminating talk exploring the ancient Greek conception of music's power.
Lovely lovely interview, what an interesting person, music and curious interviewer. I love the lyre, now I am choosing mine and this incredible video helped me understand better the soul of this amazing ancient instrument. Thank you!❤
Listening to this video is a spiritual experience
🙏
How beautiful dialog you had. Such an extraordinary way of talk about music by the Professor. ❤️🤩
Thank you very much!
Άφωνος!!! Speechless! Again! Thank you !
Thank you too!
Χωρις λογια, γιατι πιο πανω κι απ'τα λογια η ψυχη πεταρισε στα ουρανια! Ευχαριστουμε!
Thanks guys for your exceptional work! ❤️
Thank you!
Byzantine Modes HXOI & Ancient Modes::: they are related as shown in the Analysis by Bougault Ducoudray in Etudes sur La Musique Ecclesiastique Grecque 1877 Librairie Hachette Paris. The Byzantine Modes HXOI use the Hypo forms as shown in this work. Tetrachords are given in both Byzantine & Western/Italian notation. The melody has a different tonal direction than in the ancient usage. Furthermore, the makams used in Ottoman music are based on the Byzantine Modes but further developed through modification of tetrachords and by adoption of Modes from neighboring populations.
Thank you for this wonderful discussion
Incredible documentary.
Thanks for sharing not only his words and music but this demonstration of a master's technique. I play guitar and harmonica, struggle with violin, but more and more the chelys lyre and the Manual of Harmonics by Nicomachus are my passion. I love this explosion of music and knowledge that is coming from the resurrection of the lyre and the ancient philosophies of music theory.
always waiting for every video you guys post
Thank you 😊
Fantastic discussion, salute Gentlemen.
Ἐξαιρετικό, συγχαρητήρια!
Ευχαριστούμε!
Thank you very much for this video! Watching it was very enjoying and informative! Well done!
Thank you 🙏
I'm so happy to have stumbled across your page.
Thank you for this and the many other profoundly informative - and entertaining - videos. Truly inspires the viewer to embrace one's roots.
Welcome aboard Pete!
absolutely hypnotic ZOUME YIA PANTA
Please write to my personal email michael@agr-series.com
Φανταστικό από την αρχή μέχρι το τέλος!!!
Ευχαριστούμε!
this is absolutely stunning
❤️
Wonderful!
❤️
i learned a lot, thanks!!
Thank you!
I saw Prof.Şirin Pancaroğlu of Istanbul Tehnik Üniversitesi play the Çeng, the Persian harp. She played in the hijaz mode that is also used by bouzouki players. The harp allows many tunings being the instrument to play for people interested in Modal Music. There are various fingerings and techniques making the instrument fit for creating phrases fitting film soundtracks☆
I am hopeful to be able to aplly the techniques shown by Dr Xanthoulis to harp playing...although it seems redundant right now, i think there will be new things emerging...
Μόλις απόψε σας γνώρισα. Εξαιρετικοί.
Ευχαριστούμε!
Stunning 😍😍😍😍
❤️❤️❤️
Really adorable culture💞💞💞💞
Fascinating conversation as always! (And inspiring; I'm motivated to pull that nylon-string guitar off the stand for the first time in months...
Hahah. Yes, I know the feeling. I also play the guitar myself and, believe it or not, managed to learn a bit of Flamenco when I was living in Spain!
I mean Lyre playing is like riding. You can ride just because it makes you happy and you and your horse enjoy it. Than surley they are various ways you can ride and competitions. Than there is dressage. Which is technical the top. And Nikos is the top of lyre playing.
This is one of the best interview on this topic. Thank your very much for doing this amazing work.
PD: Pythagoras in Greek lengauge sounds more impresive thow....
Haha.. thank you. Yes, Mr. Xanthoulis made it a point, didn't he?
@@AncientGreeceRevisited oh yes...
Hmmm...excellent playing and discussion. It seems that Plato was communicating that λόγος alone is not enough to listen to, but must be μυσικε that is, the reasoning powers of the soul must be actively engaged and exercised just as musicians cannot simply listen to music to learn, but must play.
Well spoken, but perhaps what your analysis misses is the idea of "rhythm" and "analogies." The analogies are the essence of musical scales and, more importantly, musical modes en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mode_(music). These modes are defined by the "distances" between the notes, and there was something in this fact that fascinated Plato. I like what you said about the "experiential" aspect of something that would otherwise remain purely mental, but the thing that is experienced is not necessity logos.
There is a strange and hardly understood passage in the "Republic," which, however, is central to how Regimes fall apart and decay, or rather how they begin this process from a place of otherwise perfection. Plato (through the mouth of Socrates) says that something perfect, like the Regime he described in this book, cannot really decay, because that would be irrational as it would mean that the same Regime also had flaws (which is the opposite of perfect). So Plato engages in a mystical tale of how human reproduction must follow some intervals (seasons of mating I suppose) that mimic musical scales, and when the people "fall out of rhythm" and start copulating and reproducing whenever they want, the children born start becoming defective in character, and will in time start corrupting the Regime.
So what I'm saying was that music held more mysteries for Plato than mere "logos." I suppose ;-)
@@AncientGreeceRevisited Ah! Yes, wow you earned a subb by me 😂 truly you do philosophize and aren't merely another logician. I honestly didn't think you would respond with such an informed mind let alone at all ha ha.
Yes what you touched on is correct. A surface level reading cannot be done with the works of _Plato Republic_ but, again it's not for the uninitiated or lazy philosopher.
All that being said yes not being harmony with the essence of λόγος would definitely stem from a lack of μυσικε, that is to say "musing" quite literally! Philosophy requires careful thought and pondering, and as you rightly said there are certain rythms which must be followed otherwise it will result in the decay of the soul and society as a whole.
Outstanding.. Although I have something to point out. In this great job that you are doing, why don't you put subtitles on for the Greeks that do not understand English. In these times that we are living in, Greeks are the ones that needed the most to find out about themselves. Thanks, and keep up the wonderful work!!
Thank you for the message George! Just wanted to let you know that all the videos have greek and english subtitles, among others.
Great discussion, beautiful playing and thanks so much for posting! 🙏 Although one thing I did feel is that this approach comes from understanding and describing ancient music rom a very western classical music built on equal temperament and harmony which is also quite a modern invention in the history of music. Not that this is a bad approach or not to say the the ancients did not use them but I do believe the absence of any mention of the attempts to understand ancient tuning systems and the completely modal side of music both ancient and modern. Tuning systems of more than just the seven note scale and octave that gave us the basis for the modal universe that is the maqam system etc. From what I've read and been told a lot of Ancient Greek musical sources including scientific and philosophic approaches towards music theory were also preserved and extended upon by the byzantines and later copied by the Arabs during the Middle Ages and this also influenced their treatises on music Not trying to put down anybody's work or anything but I do honestly believe that we need to study and understand both approaches to music if we are ever to get closer to understanding our musical past.
You are right dear George, the field is really wide. I studied and practiced a small part of the discipline according to my potentialities. I hope that in the future a better lyrist will do more things on this marvelous instrument.
Thank you for the beautiful performance. @@NikosXanthoulis 🙏
Mystical or religious experiences do not exist only in the realm of faith.
56 octaves below the Bflat? Which frequency is that in Hz?
Very profound : the explanation of the words is paramount !!! Can you explain also the words of Biblical Greek? what is the meaning of Parousia? We westerners say "Come", but some say "Presence" , probably none of this is close to the real meaning ?
Mystical experience , very interesting it seems to me that is Hesichia ! Rigth?
the Good News the kingdom is at hand , literaly at the distance of the elbow . it is the heart ! Rigth?
Felicitations and best wishes
Well, the word "parousia" contains the root "ousia" which means "essence," so it's not the presence of a material body but of it's essence.
@@AncientGreeceRevisited Há very important many thanks : so it is in Spirit and Truth !!!
4:44 In Ancient Greek Plato is Πλάτων, not Πλάτωνας -- that's modern Greek.
Nikos, Who made your lyre? What type of strings are you using (gut, nygut,etc)?
I don't think that Nikos is actively looking at these comments, so I'll give you a response at the best of my knowledge. I believe that his lyre was made by Luthieros in Thessaloniki (luthieros.com/). For the rest, please contact Nikos directly through the links in the description.
@@AncientGreeceRevisited my lyre is from the laboratory of Nikolas Bras. nikolaosbrass.com/
6:23 does anyone know exactly which discovery he is talking about? I have searched for related NASA and Chandra Observatory things in 2007 and I haven't been able to find it.
That, only N. Xanthoulis can answer ...
g.co/kgs/S3Hjyt
Συγχαρητήρια! Μακάρι να το είχατε και στα ελληνικά!
Μα έχει υπότιτλους (και μας πήρε και τόση ώρα να τους βάλουμε)
@@AncientGreeceRevisited ναι με τους αγγλικούς υπότιτλους το είδα και είναι πολύ καλοί. Τώρα παρατήρησα ότι έχει επιλογή για υπότιτλους στα ελληνικά. Θα το προβάλω στους μαθητές μου στο σχολείο.
Πραγματικά σας ευχαριστώ! Είδα και άλλα βίντεό σας και κάνετε καταπληκτική δουλειά! Ευχαριστώ πολύ!
@@MedeaGR Μεγάλη μας τιμή. Υπάρχει βέβαια και αυτή που είναι στα Ελληνικά: ruclips.net/video/E9bQgzV6icM/видео.html
I believe that in the Chromatic scale there were pitches that are microtones...less than sharps/flats. Does Dr Xanthoulis concur[symfonizei]with this observation? EYXAPICTW
Oh yes! This possibility exists and every day I do my best to discover something new. The instrument has no limits. The human being has limits
σαν λυράρης είσαι καλός...συγχαρητήρια...
I am a bit deceived, because the music of the spheres is not treated in the video, despite the title. Anyway, I would like to communicate here an important archaeological finding that I have made, related to the Pythagoreans. I tal about the discovery of the only preserved pythagorean houses, the so-called "taulas" of Menorca, in the Balearic archipel, Spain.
The music of the spheres is not a precise concept any longer. We have lost the thread with the past, and no one - despite what they might say - knows what the Pythagoreans practiced. This discussion about music, I believe, is the closest thing to - at least - a new beginning. The "taulas" that you mentioned do not seem connected to the Pythagoreans, at least on first glance. If you have more information about this, or an article that you might want to share, please do.
Actually the Planets emit radio waves and special radio receivers can give you the sounds of Planets and the Sun and of Stars. This Music of the Spheres title is overused...the astronomy known in Pythagoras' times allowed the intuition that there is an order governing the planet motion. This order can be expressed through numbers that have correspondence in the World of Sounds as well. This correspondence was found later to be present in astronomical measurements such that the precession of the equinoxes is a large Number that is an exact multiple of 432, the frequency of LA note in the Pythagorean scale in which a Tone is made up of 9 Pythagorean units called commas. Please send me some info about the Pythagorean houses in the Baleares. I will tell you some astonishing things that will amaze even Dr. Xanthoulis...if I choose to tell him...
Please read the Note sent earlier to this Channel. Look for the image of Europa, the satellite...
BOYO ALERT
I wish to create a COMPLETE work of art one day
ΕΛΛΗΝΑΣ
It's silly to use the modern-day pronunciation of Ancient Greek in a channel called "Ancient Greece Revisited" is used in this video. The people who now live in Greece say that the sheep in Homer's time bleated "wee wee" instead of "baa baa" (The English have no correct sound for it either, unfortunately, the aa in baa must be pronounced as the a in bad but held on to longer. In French and Germanic languages the sound can be written down correctly. In French a sheep would bleat bè bè). Oh well, you know the sound of a bleating sheep, it is certainly not like the Kiwi bird, as modern Greek would have it.
God is Love. Jesus is the Christ of Men.
LYDIANS gave the Lydian mode, the PHRYGIANS the Phrygian mode...these were Anatolian populations who left behind inscriptions in these languages and archeological remains...the Greeks studied and used these Modes. The Phrygians invented at least three musical instruments. The visual harmony can be admired in their artifacts and buildings on Anatolian soil. Greece was not always a pioneer...but many times a relay point...
Dude stfu and try to learn something from the video. You are a clown if you think Lydia and Phrygia weren't Greek city states.
Εξαιρετικη και διαφωτιστικη συνεντευξη. Το σημαντικοτερο ειναι οτι η αρχαια μουσικη και γλωσσα υπαρχει μεσα στη σημερινη μας γλωσσα και δημοτικη και λαϊκη μας μουσικη. Και αξιοι ανθρωποι την αναδεικνυουν ολοζωντανη και καθημερινη. Συγχαρητηρια!
Ευχαριστούμε πολύ.
Να ειστε καλά! Να προσθεσω ως Γεωλογος οτι στη μελετη της αρχαιας μουσικης μας θα πρεπει να ληφθει υποψη πολυ σοβαρα ο Τοπος που αυτη αναπτυχθηκε και εξελιχθηκε, οπως και η γλωσσα, ιδιαιτερα εφοσον ο κυριως ελλαδικος χωρος αλλα και οι αμεσως γειτονικοι του, ηταν ανεκαθεν κερματισμενος γεωμορφολογικα και γεωλογικα σε επιμερους μικροτερους, αλλα πληρεις σε εικονες, ερεθισματα και μεσα διαβιωσης τοπους. Ή αν θελετε σε επιμερους "κοσμους, μικρους, μεγαλους" παραφραζοντας τον Ελυτη. Βεβαιως οι επαφες με εξωτερικους παραγοντες ηταν παντα ισχυρες, αλλα πιστευω οτι φιλτραρονταν στον καθε τοπο προτου δωσουν μικροτερες ή μεγαλυτερες αλλαγες. Καθοσον οι επιμερους Τοποι εμειναν γενικα οπως ηταν απο την αρχαια εποχη μεχρι και πολυ προσφατα, η καθοριστικη επιρροη τους στη μουσικη και τη γλωσσα ειναι ενας απο τους λογους που αυτες διατηρηθηκαν στα δημοτικα και λαϊκα τραγουδια διαχρονικα. Καλη συνεχεια στη μελετη σας κε Ξανθουλη.