I love your entries to CCC! One is an inhuman mess of a "language" with weird sounds and an unnecessarily complicated grammar, and the other was Gurgle ❤
It feels like George Orwell and Borges wrote a story together: a distopian society that is also a thought experiment, with its internal logic being stretched to its logical limit so much that it can only be a thought experiment. Also, I like how you essentially flip the concept of newspeak on it's head: the language is still an instrument of oppression, but instead of being oversimplified on purpose, it's overcomplicated on purpose
@@igor-korobitsyn Thank you so much, I really appreciate your comment! I like your perspective that New Atlantean is like inverse Orwellian Newspeak. I hadn’t thought of it like that before. ^^
funny how there are now two CCC3 submissions with insane formality systems loosely inspired by Japanese with a framing device where the narrator has personal experience with the language
Yeah, I just watched ZeWei’s entry. It’s a complete coincidence, I swear. xD But I think the formality systems of languages like Japanese or Korean are already kinda cursed, so it’s not very far-fetched to use them for inspiration. lol
I like the way the storytelling and the info about the language are interspersed in the video. Also, lots of CCC langs are cursed because they're unnatural or severely impractical or impossible to actually use, but you've managed to make a language that's *societally* cursed.
@@Jpteryx Thank you, I really appreciate your comment! :D For some reason, I have set myself the challenge to make all of my submissions naturalistic, at least to some degree. It creates an interesting limitation for me that turns out to be actually rather helpful to channel my ideas.
Is... is that an ejective FLAP as the "talking to outlaws" rhotic? I love how this uses the full cursedness of making almost the entire IPA your phonology, without the ugly look of a paper blasted with a blunderbuss loaded with IPA symbols. And I just realized the registers basically assign different manners of articulation to different social classes, what fun madness!
@@JohnSmith-of2gu Thanks a lot, I appreciate that you point that out! (: Generally, voiceless (fortis) consonants are associated more with dominance (and vice versa). And the ejectives, directed towards outlaws, imitate spitting, as a symbol for highest contempt. Apart from the manner of articulation of the consonants, the vowels are also notable: in the registers directed towards “inferiors”, there are only three vowel phonemes as opposed to the original and usual four, which evolved as a kind of condescending simplification (a bit like baby talk). And yes, the ejective flap and all the other sounds in the rightmost column evolved from the original rhotic, which basically means that the language has fourteen rhotics.
@@linguleum I caught on to the spitting sound thing, yeah. Speaking of spitting (and my inability to imagine an ejective flap, I can only do stops and affricates), I wonder if the bastards behind this language considered the linguolabial trill for the role? Speaking of, were linguolabials part of Old Atlantean? I was gonna comment about the potential symbolism of taking something from the IPA for Disordered speech, but then I remembered linguolabial stops contrasting with alveolars is a thing in natlangs like Araki and Big Nambas. Either way, the language contrasting ALL FIVE coronal places of articulation is definitely a cursed self-own.
@@JohnSmith-of2gu Oh, a linguolabial trill would have been fun. Should have made this the rhotic of the outlaw-register. xD No, Old Atlantean didn’t have linguolabials. You can see the phonemes of Old Atlantean at 5:28 in the uppermost row. But I used them in one of my very first conlangs and kinda like them. ^^ Yes, for me, the hardest to distinguish is between alveolar and postalveolar. I mean, the two fricatives sound so different, but the stops and nasals are so similar, that’s so weird. xD
@@linguleum Thanks. Oh thanks, somehow I never drew the connection that the top row was THE original Atlantean phonemes. HELLA cursed sound changes indeed. And yeah the alveolar/postalveolar is a nasty one, does any natlang fully contrast them?
The Atlantean government clearly put a lot of work into using simpler/vestigial forms of the language as less respectful registers, forcing people to 'keep up with the joneses' by adapting whatever monstrosity they come up with lest they sound like they're calling the neighbors trashbags. But for something this complex to really stuck, you need some INTENSE state-backed linguistic prescriptivism. Which Atlantis clearly has, given speaking 'wrong' gets you outlawed. Our poor protag must be very happy English doesn't have an equivalent of the Academie Francaise. Since you apparently need to conceive your first child *exactly at 20*... dare I ask what happens to women and their children who get pregnant earlier? Also outlawed for being a naughty child?
@@JohnSmith-of2gu It’s great to see that you thought about the implications so much! :D I cut a lot of explanations from the script because it would have been too long. Exactly, the reduced vowel systems in the registers directed towards an inferior emerged as a sort of baby-talk. As for the age markers: women are prohibited to give birth before the age of 21, but in the first few months after turning 21, visible pregnancy suffices. It would be unreasonable to expect that all of them give birth exactly on their birthday. (I mean, even more unreasonable than everything else. xD)
Brilliant(-ly cursed) language--and great story. In fact, there's a pretty good YA dystopian novel to be had here somewhere, but the language is SO complicated that I'm not sure it would land with the target audience. (...In fact, I'm not sure how well any language with noun cases would land with an English-speaking audience, and the noun cases are kind of the linchpin here.)
@@ScienceMeetsFiction Thank you so much, I appreciate it! Interesting idea to turn it into a novel. I’m actually kind of a writer, I will consider it. A novel wouldn’t have to go into that kind of detail. 🤔
While Gurgle was a work of art, THIS language is truly, utterly cursed, a product of a cursed cursed CURSED society! Thanks I hate it. They say that Twilight got so popular because it was one of the first novels where the story is driven by a young woman's non-vilified desires. I can absolutely see this story's protagonist finding beauty in that book if she found it on the English shore. I cannot put them down for it, not after that horror. They need hugs.
@@JohnSmith-of2gu Wow, thank you so much! (= Interesting thoughts on the novel “Twilight”. Just imagine how beautiful it would be to discover literature (in English no less) after having been brought up in this society. I think the protagonist devours one book after the other. Btw, I was lucky the text was so apt for demonstrating the language. The Bees text from last year would have made New Atlantean look much less cursed. xD
@@linguleum Funny how things work out. Was this nightmare language in development even before the C3 started? Let me guess: The way the language became almost unusable in its quest to represent to many superficial distinctions is a metaphor for how societies sabotage themselves by maintaining old prejudices? Also from a specifically conlanging perspective, the many registers are a brilliant choice: This 14-fold satanic allophony allows Atlantean to do the "I paid for the entire IPA so I will use the entire IPA" bit with 154 separate consonants, WITHOUT any individual sentence having the ugly look of a page blasted with a blunderbuss full of IPA characters. Even better is how the construction is mostly regular, yet this naturally has the cursed results of the two equal registers having to contrast 10 different nasals. This also means it would be impractical to use said registers for general communication even if you wanted to, because realistically people using that ultrafrench-like grunting would need to use each other's subtle non-verbal/paralinguistic cues to communicate effectively- something that won't work when talking to crowds/strangers. Wow. Also, is that an ejective FLAP as the "talking to outlaws" register's rhotic? Is that even possible?
@JohnSmith-of2gu Thank you so much for your comment! Somehow RUclips didn’t notify me about it. I started developing New Atlantean after the announcement of the CCC3. And yes, it is in great parts meant to be satire directed towards languages that have unnecessary distinctions like politeness, gender, etc. I’m nonbinary, and in my native language (German), it’s almost impossible to talk about someone in the third person without mentioning their gender (and of course, there are only female and male to choose from). It’s horrible for me. Hence the sarcastic and disdainful tone of the video, it’s hardly acting (neither is the praise for the English language towards the end). xD I appreciate your comments about the phonology! Yep, that was the idea behind it. ^^ The language is not fit for general communication at all, even if there was only one register. German feels a bit like that to me. And yes, an ejective flap is possible (and I personally don’t even find it particularly hard to articulate). But I don’t think it appears in any natural language. (:
@@linguleum The Handmaiden's Tale is a dystopian novel where a large portion of American women become infertile, & a Christian Fundamentalist government forces fertile women to become breeding slaves. it's become shorthand for any kind of misogyny-based dystopia
I love your content and the concept behind this video! I feel like this is totally an allegory for something, if only my 7 blåhajar could give me a hint... ;)
@@Hi30MC Hey, thank you so much! (= Yeah, I’m nonbinary and my native language (German) makes it almost impossible to talk about someone without mentioning their gender. I’m so fed up with it and I created this language as a satirical caricature to basically vent my frustration. xD
@@linguleum Yeah makes sense, I think it's really cool concept. My native language is English, but I have done a lot of studying of other languages, including German, Spanish, and other gendered languages. I think the concept as a whole is completely awful, and have vowed to never speak them ever after figuring out my own gender lol. I can't wait to see your next entry into CCC4 if that ever happens!
@@Hi30MC Yes, I totally get you! I remember when I learned as a kid that a phrase like “the teacher“ is genderneutral and there isn’t something like “the teacheress” for women. Back then, I thought this was pretty impractical because I was so used to the German system. Now of course, I prefer the English system by a lot.
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
my head is hurting while i'm watching this... i'm loving your story though, it's so cool.
@@i4limbo Thanks a lot! I hope you get better soon. :)
I love your entries to CCC! One is an inhuman mess of a "language" with weird sounds and an unnecessarily complicated grammar, and the other was Gurgle ❤
@@belcarra Lol! xD
Thank you so much, I really appreciate it! 💜
Gurgle 💖✨
Wow. I LOVED Gurgle and it's great to see another absolute masterpiece from you!
@@CuriosityCore101 Thank you so much, this really means a lot to me! (=
It feels like George Orwell and Borges wrote a story together: a distopian society that is also a thought experiment, with its internal logic being stretched to its logical limit so much that it can only be a thought experiment. Also, I like how you essentially flip the concept of newspeak on it's head: the language is still an instrument of oppression, but instead of being oversimplified on purpose, it's overcomplicated on purpose
@@igor-korobitsyn Thank you so much, I really appreciate your comment! I like your perspective that New Atlantean is like inverse Orwellian Newspeak. I hadn’t thought of it like that before. ^^
funny how there are now two CCC3 submissions with insane formality systems loosely inspired by Japanese with a framing device where the narrator has personal experience with the language
Yeah, I just watched ZeWei’s entry. It’s a complete coincidence, I swear. xD But I think the formality systems of languages like Japanese or Korean are already kinda cursed, so it’s not very far-fetched to use them for inspiration. lol
I like the way the storytelling and the info about the language are interspersed in the video. Also, lots of CCC langs are cursed because they're unnatural or severely impractical or impossible to actually use, but you've managed to make a language that's *societally* cursed.
@@Jpteryx Thank you, I really appreciate your comment! :D
For some reason, I have set myself the challenge to make all of my submissions naturalistic, at least to some degree. It creates an interesting limitation for me that turns out to be actually rather helpful to channel my ideas.
Wow this is so interesting!! Very well made 😍
@@getoutofZEWEI Thank you so much! I put a lot of work into this video. 🥰
Is... is that an ejective FLAP as the "talking to outlaws" rhotic?
I love how this uses the full cursedness of making almost the entire IPA your phonology, without the ugly look of a paper blasted with a blunderbuss loaded with IPA symbols. And I just realized the registers basically assign different manners of articulation to different social classes, what fun madness!
@@JohnSmith-of2gu Thanks a lot, I appreciate that you point that out! (:
Generally, voiceless (fortis) consonants are associated more with dominance (and vice versa). And the ejectives, directed towards outlaws, imitate spitting, as a symbol for highest contempt.
Apart from the manner of articulation of the consonants, the vowels are also notable: in the registers directed towards “inferiors”, there are only three vowel phonemes as opposed to the original and usual four, which evolved as a kind of condescending simplification (a bit like baby talk).
And yes, the ejective flap and all the other sounds in the rightmost column evolved from the original rhotic, which basically means that the language has fourteen rhotics.
@@linguleum I caught on to the spitting sound thing, yeah. Speaking of spitting (and my inability to imagine an ejective flap, I can only do stops and affricates), I wonder if the bastards behind this language considered the linguolabial trill for the role?
Speaking of, were linguolabials part of Old Atlantean? I was gonna comment about the potential symbolism of taking something from the IPA for Disordered speech, but then I remembered linguolabial stops contrasting with alveolars is a thing in natlangs like Araki and Big Nambas.
Either way, the language contrasting ALL FIVE coronal places of articulation is definitely a cursed self-own.
@@JohnSmith-of2gu Oh, a linguolabial trill would have been fun. Should have made this the rhotic of the outlaw-register. xD
No, Old Atlantean didn’t have linguolabials. You can see the phonemes of Old Atlantean at 5:28 in the uppermost row. But I used them in one of my very first conlangs and kinda like them. ^^
Yes, for me, the hardest to distinguish is between alveolar and postalveolar. I mean, the two fricatives sound so different, but the stops and nasals are so similar, that’s so weird. xD
@@linguleum Thanks. Oh thanks, somehow I never drew the connection that the top row was THE original Atlantean phonemes. HELLA cursed sound changes indeed. And yeah the alveolar/postalveolar is a nasty one, does any natlang fully contrast them?
@@JohnSmith-of2gu Wikipedia says:
“Some Australian languages distinguish four coronal nasals and laterals: laminal dental [n̪ l̪], apical alveolar [n l], laminal postalveolar (palatalized) [ṉʲ ḻʲ], and apical postalveolar (retroflex) [ɳ ɭ].”
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postalveolar_consonant
I like the world building detail of how the language literally forbids being 21 and not have a child/be pregnant.
Very good video!
@@draagsnuab Thanks a lot, I appreciate it! (=
I tried to come up with the society I would loathe to live in the most. xD
I love the visuals and editing in this! Very entertaining
@@2tbk Thank you, I appreciate that! ^^
i love this submission!
@@teachies902 Thank you, I appreciate it! :D
The Atlantean government clearly put a lot of work into using simpler/vestigial forms of the language as less respectful registers, forcing people to 'keep up with the joneses' by adapting whatever monstrosity they come up with lest they sound like they're calling the neighbors trashbags. But for something this complex to really stuck, you need some INTENSE state-backed linguistic prescriptivism. Which Atlantis clearly has, given speaking 'wrong' gets you outlawed. Our poor protag must be very happy English doesn't have an equivalent of the Academie Francaise.
Since you apparently need to conceive your first child *exactly at 20*... dare I ask what happens to women and their children who get pregnant earlier? Also outlawed for being a naughty child?
@@JohnSmith-of2gu It’s great to see that you thought about the implications so much! :D I cut a lot of explanations from the script because it would have been too long.
Exactly, the reduced vowel systems in the registers directed towards an inferior emerged as a sort of baby-talk.
As for the age markers: women are prohibited to give birth before the age of 21, but in the first few months after turning 21, visible pregnancy suffices. It would be unreasonable to expect that all of them give birth exactly on their birthday. (I mean, even more unreasonable than everything else. xD)
Brilliant(-ly cursed) language--and great story. In fact, there's a pretty good YA dystopian novel to be had here somewhere, but the language is SO complicated that I'm not sure it would land with the target audience.
(...In fact, I'm not sure how well any language with noun cases would land with an English-speaking audience, and the noun cases are kind of the linchpin here.)
@@ScienceMeetsFiction Thank you so much, I appreciate it!
Interesting idea to turn it into a novel. I’m actually kind of a writer, I will consider it. A novel wouldn’t have to go into that kind of detail. 🤔
0:36 intros, you dont see those that often anymore
@@ChrisW101 I hope you like it! I put a lot of effort into that intro. ^^
@@linguleum yes I do! The video is especially unique, you're the first guy I e seen include the story theme in this way and trope is also very good.
@@ChrisW101 Thank you so much, I appreciate it a lot! (=
While Gurgle was a work of art, THIS language is truly, utterly cursed, a product of a cursed cursed CURSED society! Thanks I hate it.
They say that Twilight got so popular because it was one of the first novels where the story is driven by a young woman's non-vilified desires. I can absolutely see this story's protagonist finding beauty in that book if she found it on the English shore. I cannot put them down for it, not after that horror. They need hugs.
@@JohnSmith-of2gu Wow, thank you so much! (=
Interesting thoughts on the novel “Twilight”. Just imagine how beautiful it would be to discover literature (in English no less) after having been brought up in this society. I think the protagonist devours one book after the other.
Btw, I was lucky the text was so apt for demonstrating the language. The Bees text from last year would have made New Atlantean look much less cursed. xD
@@linguleum Funny how things work out. Was this nightmare language in development even before the C3 started? Let me guess: The way the language became almost unusable in its quest to represent to many superficial distinctions is a metaphor for how societies sabotage themselves by maintaining old prejudices?
Also from a specifically conlanging perspective, the many registers are a brilliant choice: This 14-fold satanic allophony allows Atlantean to do the "I paid for the entire IPA so I will use the entire IPA" bit with 154 separate consonants, WITHOUT any individual sentence having the ugly look of a page blasted with a blunderbuss full of IPA characters. Even better is how the construction is mostly regular, yet this naturally has the cursed results of the two equal registers having to contrast 10 different nasals. This also means it would be impractical to use said registers for general communication even if you wanted to, because realistically people using that ultrafrench-like grunting would need to use each other's subtle non-verbal/paralinguistic cues to communicate effectively- something that won't work when talking to crowds/strangers. Wow. Also, is that an ejective FLAP as the "talking to outlaws" register's rhotic? Is that even possible?
@JohnSmith-of2gu Thank you so much for your comment! Somehow RUclips didn’t notify me about it.
I started developing New Atlantean after the announcement of the CCC3. And yes, it is in great parts meant to be satire directed towards languages that have unnecessary distinctions like politeness, gender, etc. I’m nonbinary, and in my native language (German), it’s almost impossible to talk about someone in the third person without mentioning their gender (and of course, there are only female and male to choose from). It’s horrible for me. Hence the sarcastic and disdainful tone of the video, it’s hardly acting (neither is the praise for the English language towards the end). xD
I appreciate your comments about the phonology! Yep, that was the idea behind it. ^^ The language is not fit for general communication at all, even if there was only one register. German feels a bit like that to me.
And yes, an ejective flap is possible (and I personally don’t even find it particularly hard to articulate). But I don’t think it appears in any natural language. (:
@@linguleum I myself thought youtube ate the comment for a bit since I couldn't see it later. Glad you received it after all.
@@JohnSmith-of2gu It’s still not displaying for me, but I have access to it via the Creator Studio. RUclips has been weird with the comments lately.
Something something Sapir-Worf.
@@stephenkramer7157 xD
If I didn't make a submission, I would have voted for you.
@@renax72010 Thank you, I appreciate that! ^^
But can’t the people who made a submission vote as well? I was planning to cast a vote myself.
@@linguleum Well, I voted for myself before I found this language.
@@renax72010 Ah, I see. But you know we can give six votes, right?
@@linguleum I've voted for you now
@@renax72010 Thanks a lot, I appreciate it! :D
Nice to see so many entries from queer folk this year! Anyway, pretty solid entry and gorgeous art.
Thank you so much! :D
This is a beautiful and depressing work of art. I love your conlang and video style in general. Thank you for this. :)
@@Wonderland_Jutomi Wow, thank you so much! This means a lot to me.
The Handmaiden's Tongue
@@isaacthedestroyerofstuped7676 Haha, I’m sure that’s a clever allusion, but I’m not cultured enough to get it. Could you elaborate? xD
@@linguleum The Handmaiden's Tale is a dystopian novel where a large portion of American women become infertile, & a Christian Fundamentalist government forces fertile women to become breeding slaves. it's become shorthand for any kind of misogyny-based dystopia
@@linguleumThe Handmaiden's Tale, which has a highly restrictive social structure
@@BryanLu0 Ah, I see. Thank you! ^^
@hya2in8 Oh I see, thanks, good to know! The Atlantean society is not all that different then.
I love your content and the concept behind this video! I feel like this is totally an allegory for something, if only my 7 blåhajar could give me a hint... ;)
@@Hi30MC Hey, thank you so much! (=
Yeah, I’m nonbinary and my native language (German) makes it almost impossible to talk about someone without mentioning their gender. I’m so fed up with it and I created this language as a satirical caricature to basically vent my frustration. xD
@@linguleum Yeah makes sense, I think it's really cool concept. My native language is English, but I have done a lot of studying of other languages, including German, Spanish, and other gendered languages. I think the concept as a whole is completely awful, and have vowed to never speak them ever after figuring out my own gender lol. I can't wait to see your next entry into CCC4 if that ever happens!
@@Hi30MC Yes, I totally get you! I remember when I learned as a kid that a phrase like “the teacher“ is genderneutral and there isn’t something like “the teacheress” for women. Back then, I thought this was pretty impractical because I was so used to the German system. Now of course, I prefer the English system by a lot.
@@linguleum ahhh that tracks! Abklatsch aus Polen, the land of gendered verb conjugation :'3