Matthew, I would love to hear you elaborate in a separate video on the reasons you think projectors provide better picture quality than a TV. Love your channel and thanks for all the great content!
To me, that's an impossible question to answer because it's almost always going to be the case projectors are inferior. Christie has a dual-LCD panel at half a mil that gets closer to LCD mastering monitor quality; although, I've never seen it nor seen a review of it. No other projector will match the black levels of an OLED nor do projectors support enough nits for most HDR content. But that's a lie. I've seen one guy's house with a 100" screen with an NZ9 that had TV-like HDR brightness, but it was as close as could be to the screen and he has a madVR Envy and had to run in log, not PQ mode. It's not a superior picture, it's a comparable one at the same size as a TV. The more light output (HDR), the worse your black levels, that's why without special tech like dual LCD panels, it's hard to get a projector looking superior to a TV. Either way, you're asking something really difficult to answer :p
If we are talking 140”+ screen sizes where the only available “televisions”are comprised of multiple microled panels, I agree that projectors are superior. The panel junctions and variations are still distracting. The Sphere in Vegas was a big letdown to me for this reason.
Yeah, this topic needs a video. The NZ9 is the only projector in a consumer stretched budget that is comparable to an OLED, and with a MadVR I’d say, no longer a thought in the back of my head that I’d rather watch a movie on an OLED. However, brightness, Dolby Vision, Gaming, latency, having to make a black room, it all falls apart.
Saying there’s no good projectors in the 3k range is ridiculous. The Epson ls11000 and ls12000 are great projectors. I was at an event where they put the ls12000 up against the NZ7 and half the room preferred the ls12000. Diminishing return really sets in at the 5k price range, unless you have a 150+ inch screen. The epson 5040ub is 85% as good and can be found on the used market for a thousand bucks. I’ve seen all the current projectors side by side, and other than on certain torture test scenes, there’s not much difference between a Ls12000 and a projector that cost twice as much.
Wow! Excellent response / content. Yes, I have tried the Above/Below and the Left/Right (all Time-aligned) , and I do in fact have one of the few processors which allow all Center content below 120hz to be split into the Left and Right main speakers, however as you state this still falls short (and in fact I have dual processors for which I would run BOTH at the same time in order to have more flexibility and control over my various implementations / attempts). I have not however implemented a Filter to the upper Center speaker as you described. I also have not tried the Screen reflection option(s), but am willing to give those a try (as it will still be quite a bit cheaper than using options from those other companies). And YES 😊, I have yet to be willing to spend 10+ K on a projector setup which as you indicate would then be fine. Well, at least for my dedicated Home Theater room which is 100% light controlled, but then still leaves the Living room as a Non-projector only option (light galore!). Ps. I have the ability to raise my center to the proper height for Music only surround sound (and all of the calibrations that go with that), which still isn't an option for watching music Concerts 😩. So yeah, frustrated on this front I remain. Thanks again for all the info! Will definitely give some of your ideas a try 👍 Pss. I'm also a Gamer and hence the Projector option simply doesn't fly with me. I do run a projector at 1080p 240hz w/4.2 ms response time for gaming, but then much prefer the TV picture for Movie watching (the $ thing comes into play as you mentioned).
Nice commentary! With a Micro LED display boucing the dialog off the nicro led panel makes the most sense, as well as having maybe the RTJ Super Speaker System for your Left & Right Speakers and 18 inch dual subwoofers as well (4 in front & maybe 4 in rear). Atmos speakers could be RTJ as well hanging on the upper walls just under neath the ceiling. I like the idea of dipole speakers for the rear speakers, as I don't like direct radiating speakers in the rear. One of my quirks!
Hi Matt, love your content, but I will say no matter how you determine what better picture quality is for the general public A TV will always look better. I am person who is in to the picture quality and audio quality but my 85 inch Samson TV looks worlds better than my JVCRS 600 in my blacked out basement. Now whether you’re talking measurements or anything like that sure I guess that can be addressed but in terms of walking in a room looking at a picture and making an opinion about how you feel about what that picture looks like I think what the person was talking about is that a TV is always going to appear better looking
Ok, technically those expensive jvc projectors have as good a picture or better than most tvs. If u rely on numbers and dont look at real world results you get a lot of folks correctly going..wtf!?
Poe did you forget you reviewed the Sony 7000 avr? I've been playing with it for a year or so and the dual center option works great for me. It also has an option called center lift that brings the center to the front heights. Both are great for me.
A guy in my area suggested not having a Center channel in the first place to avoid those pans. Might work for your situation, but he said it cold move the voices closer to you. If that's bothersome, just cross-fire your speakers, widening the sweet spot. Should help is my guess. I mean, I have a 97" LG OLED and don't notice any issues. A pan across the center is rare, but you really just need to angle the tweeter at your ears. I also cross-fire my speakers 🤷♂️.
My speaker set up with my 85 inch TV has a very wide sound stage with laser focus imaging, and if I added surround speakers and told the receiver, I didn’t have a center channel. I’m pretty sure that would sound pretty sweet. Cheers
Love your videos! - I thought sound first meant not to use AT screens as it always effects the sound. (Just full of dilemma on which type to get for my new setup right now lol) It's sound first for me so was aiming for my Kef R6 to be below it.
I would argue that is sound second. Because sound first isn’t just about the effect of the screen. It’s also about the sound tracking the image correctly. The image is on the screen and not below it. If the speakers are below the screen that means we compromises many things. The speakers are too close to the ground. That will add ground boundary reinforcement and cause coloration. It will push the image too low, so it doesn’t match the screen well. The brain will match a little, but I find that this setup usually is far from perfect. And finally, it forces the screen too high usually. The natural place for the eyes to land is around the 1/3 to 1/2 point on the screen. Often placing speakers reasonably high means a screen that has your eyes landing on the frame. It’s not my preferred way to do it. I’ve done both, and once I went to AT screens, I never wanted to return.
@@PoesAcoustics Thanks for this! Appreciate your advice and it's swaying me back to the AT screen option. Here in the UK it's quite hard to find a good AT 4m wide screen/material.
@PoesAcoustics with regards to AT Screens- what are your thoughts on darker than white options. Grey screens for better darks. Main LT proj is an Epson LS12000, with a UST proj for visitor gaming and 3D. Room will be fully light and acoustically controlled. However I do like a little ambient light sometimes when guests are over or for casual use.
With a 90” screen your eyes should be 14” from the bottom of the tv. If you place the center directly under the screen, with a wide vertical dispersion, I don’t see any problems with the distance you will be sitting away from the screen. Is it the best? No, but it will still be pretty good
Good morning, Matt! So, I have that same configuration...LF, LC, RC,RF...The four speakers are spilt on the left and right sides of the television... I have tried the above and below dual center... neither provides the best regarding the sound... However, Left Center and Right Center is working fine and sounds great...My front speakers are 4 Power Sound Audio MTM-212s to create a Left Front, Left Center, Right Center, Right Front...Now I did split the center from Denon with a Parallel Splitter going into two channels on the Monolith 8250x....Also, you're correct! Positioning and sound dispersion is key to achieving a great performance.
Thanks for all your great work Matt ! 👍🏽
Thank you for your support! I’ll make sure to answer your question from the “ask your question post”
Matthew, I would love to hear you elaborate in a separate video on the reasons you think projectors provide better picture quality than a TV. Love your channel and thanks for all the great content!
To me, that's an impossible question to answer because it's almost always going to be the case projectors are inferior.
Christie has a dual-LCD panel at half a mil that gets closer to LCD mastering monitor quality; although, I've never seen it nor seen a review of it. No other projector will match the black levels of an OLED nor do projectors support enough nits for most HDR content.
But that's a lie. I've seen one guy's house with a 100" screen with an NZ9 that had TV-like HDR brightness, but it was as close as could be to the screen and he has a madVR Envy and had to run in log, not PQ mode. It's not a superior picture, it's a comparable one at the same size as a TV.
The more light output (HDR), the worse your black levels, that's why without special tech like dual LCD panels, it's hard to get a projector looking superior to a TV.
Either way, you're asking something really difficult to answer :p
If we are talking 140”+ screen sizes where the only available “televisions”are comprised of multiple microled panels, I agree that projectors are superior. The panel junctions and variations are still distracting. The Sphere in Vegas was a big letdown to me for this reason.
Yeah, this topic needs a video. The NZ9 is the only projector in a consumer stretched budget that is comparable to an OLED, and with a MadVR I’d say, no longer a thought in the back of my head that I’d rather watch a movie on an OLED. However, brightness, Dolby Vision, Gaming, latency, having to make a black room, it all falls apart.
April 8, 2024
Saying there’s no good projectors in the 3k range is ridiculous. The Epson ls11000 and ls12000 are great projectors. I was at an event where they put the ls12000 up against the NZ7 and half the room preferred the ls12000. Diminishing return really sets in at the 5k price range, unless you have a 150+ inch screen. The epson 5040ub is 85% as good and can be found on the used market for a thousand bucks. I’ve seen all the current projectors side by side, and other than on certain torture test scenes, there’s not much difference between a Ls12000 and a projector that cost twice as much.
Wow! Excellent response / content. Yes, I have tried the Above/Below and the Left/Right (all Time-aligned) , and I do in fact have one of the few processors which allow all Center content below 120hz to be split into the Left and Right main speakers, however as you state this still falls short (and in fact I have dual processors for which I would run BOTH at the same time in order to have more flexibility and control over my various implementations / attempts). I have not however implemented a Filter to the upper Center speaker as you described. I also have not tried the Screen reflection option(s), but am willing to give those a try (as it will still be quite a bit cheaper than using options from those other companies). And YES 😊, I have yet to be willing to spend 10+ K on a projector setup which as you indicate would then be fine. Well, at least for my dedicated Home Theater room which is 100% light controlled, but then still leaves the Living room as a Non-projector only option (light galore!). Ps. I have the ability to raise my center to the proper height for Music only surround sound (and all of the calibrations that go with that), which still isn't an option for watching music Concerts 😩. So yeah, frustrated on this front I remain. Thanks again for all the info! Will definitely give some of your ideas a try 👍 Pss. I'm also a Gamer and hence the Projector option simply doesn't fly with me. I do run a projector at 1080p 240hz w/4.2 ms response time for gaming, but then much prefer the TV picture for Movie watching (the $ thing comes into play as you mentioned).
My Sony 7000 has dual center and it's great for me. Also has center lift to front heights which is great too.
What about L+R w/ phantom center?
Nice commentary! With a Micro LED display boucing the dialog off the nicro led panel makes the most sense, as well as having maybe the RTJ Super Speaker System for your Left & Right Speakers and 18 inch dual subwoofers as well (4 in front & maybe 4 in rear). Atmos speakers could be RTJ as well hanging on the upper walls just under neath the ceiling. I like the idea of dipole speakers for the rear speakers, as I don't like direct radiating speakers in the rear. One of my quirks!
Hi Matt, love your content, but I will say no matter how you determine what better picture quality is for the general public A TV will always look better. I am person who is in to the picture quality and audio quality but my 85 inch Samson TV looks worlds better than my JVCRS 600 in my blacked out basement. Now whether you’re talking measurements or anything like that sure I guess that can be addressed but in terms of walking in a room looking at a picture and making an opinion about how you feel about what that picture looks like I think what the person was talking about is that a TV is always going to appear better looking
Great topic! For this reason I’m glad I went with a AT screen with my (then) $3600 Epson 5050. Ain’t nobody got time for long setups! 😂
Ok, technically those expensive jvc projectors have as good a picture or better than most tvs. If u rely on numbers and dont look at real world results you get a lot of folks correctly going..wtf!?
No projector is touching high-end direct view displays in raw picture quality , especially the new flagship oled 2024 models.
Poe did you forget you reviewed the Sony 7000 avr? I've been playing with it for a year or so and the dual center option works great for me. It also has an option called center lift that brings the center to the front heights. Both are great for me.
Very insightful video
A guy in my area suggested not having a Center channel in the first place to avoid those pans. Might work for your situation, but he said it cold move the voices closer to you. If that's bothersome, just cross-fire your speakers, widening the sweet spot. Should help is my guess.
I mean, I have a 97" LG OLED and don't notice any issues. A pan across the center is rare, but you really just need to angle the tweeter at your ears. I also cross-fire my speakers 🤷♂️.
My speaker set up with my 85 inch TV has a very wide sound stage with laser focus imaging, and if I added surround speakers and told the receiver, I didn’t have a center channel. I’m pretty sure that would sound pretty sweet. Cheers
April 8, 2024
Love your videos! - I thought sound first meant not to use AT screens as it always effects the sound. (Just full of dilemma on which type to get for my new setup right now lol) It's sound first for me so was aiming for my Kef R6 to be below it.
I would argue that is sound second. Because sound first isn’t just about the effect of the screen. It’s also about the sound tracking the image correctly. The image is on the screen and not below it. If the speakers are below the screen that means we compromises many things. The speakers are too close to the ground. That will add ground boundary reinforcement and cause coloration. It will push the image too low, so it doesn’t match the screen well. The brain will match a little, but I find that this setup usually is far from perfect. And finally, it forces the screen too high usually. The natural place for the eyes to land is around the 1/3 to 1/2 point on the screen. Often placing speakers reasonably high means a screen that has your eyes landing on the frame. It’s not my preferred way to do it. I’ve done both, and once I went to AT screens, I never wanted to return.
@@PoesAcoustics Thanks for this! Appreciate your advice and it's swaying me back to the AT screen option. Here in the UK it's quite hard to find a good AT 4m wide screen/material.
@@KASmonkeys have you looked at Screen Excellence?
@@PoesAcoustics thanks! I'll check it out.
@PoesAcoustics with regards to AT Screens- what are your thoughts on darker than white options. Grey screens for better darks.
Main LT proj is an Epson LS12000, with a UST proj for visitor gaming and 3D.
Room will be fully light and acoustically controlled.
However I do like a little ambient light sometimes when guests are over or for casual use.
Dr Sound at his best.
Thats what i call matt.
Greetings from New Delhi, India
Thanks for watching !
With a 90” screen your eyes should be 14” from the bottom of the tv. If you place the center directly under the screen, with a wide vertical dispersion, I don’t see any problems with the distance you will be sitting away from the screen.
Is it the best? No, but it will still be pretty good
At 10ft from the screen, your speaker only needs a good vertical dispersion of less than 10°. That’s only if you don’t tilt it a bit.
There are no good projectors for 3k? Epson 3800, 5040, 5050 aren't good?
Not compared to a similar priced tv they can’t compete with “large” OLEDs
Nope
Good morning, Matt!
So, I have that same configuration...LF, LC, RC,RF...The four speakers are spilt on the left and right sides of the television...
I have tried the above and below dual center... neither provides the best regarding the sound...
However, Left Center and Right Center is working fine and sounds great...My front speakers are 4 Power Sound Audio MTM-212s to create a Left Front, Left Center, Right Center, Right Front...Now I did split the center from Denon with a Parallel Splitter going into two channels on the Monolith 8250x....Also, you're correct! Positioning and sound dispersion is key to achieving a great performance.
Awesome, well explained. I like how Matt explains different approaches to solve an issue to include multiple products and budget levels.
Hi Mathew, please keep going with the two center channel solutions. Left and right of the screen and electrostatic speakers. Thanks.
Don’t Sony receivers have support for dual center channels? Or is that different
They allow certain TV's speakers to be used as the center channel
Yep the new ES series does (5000 and 7000)
@@droidzhunterz6861 Yes they do provide dual center, also center lift to front hights which is good too, as well as tv center option.
Yes, they also have center lift to front heights that is good for me.